• The NationStates server was subjected to a data breach. TNP Forums do NOT interact with the NS servers and remain secure. If you use the same password between the two sites, it is recommended you change your password.

Hersfold's petition

P

Poltsamaa

TNPer
This is the same reason you all tried to keep Fulhead out of the RA!! How sad you try the same old trick again!!

The Constitution supports Fulhead 100% in this matter and any verdict to the contrary is a farce!!

Best of luck Fulhead, if you need any assistance, let me know!! However, I'm sure you have ample resources to beat these trumped up charges!!

The North Pacific just died a little today!!
 
Poltsamaa:
This is the same reason you all tried to keep Fulhead out of the RA!! How sad you try the same old trick again!!

The Constitution supports Fulhead 100% in this matter and any verdict to the contrary is a farce!!

Best of luck Fulhead, if you need any assistance, let me know!! However, I'm sure you have ample resources to beat these trumped up charges!!

The North Pacific just died a little today!!
Click to expand...
Not entirely sure how that is, old chap. He quite clearly listed "Lexiconhead" as his UN nation on MoIIA records, indicating that he owned that nation and thus was responsible for it's actions. The Constitution clearly states that any RA member taking action against the NPA is in violation of TNP Law. 2+2=4.

As to why I'm not persecuting anyone else, that's simply because there is nobody else to persecute. Since, as far as I can tell, the only other UN nations in Camelot are those of NPA forces, there aren't any other RA members violating the law. I'm not quite sure where Fulhead thought he could go with that argument.
 
Lexiconhead is not a TNP member nation, Hersfold!! As you well know!! You and Tresville tried this stunt last time without success!! I didn't think it'd take long for your ethnic cleansing to begin!!
 
Accepting duality to the extent suggested here makes it possible to prosecute only the unartful nation who neglects to create a puppet to do his dirty work. Every thing else is "legal."

You can blame FL's evil twin all you want, but it seems impractical to me.
 
I have a question which is directed solely and only to the Judge who appears to be presiding in this case, Byardkuria.

Reference Rule 502 Part A of the Court Rules

Rule 502. Initiation of criminal or impeachment proceeding.
A- Any nation that believes some other nation in The North Pacific may have committed a criminal offense, may file, or may request the Attorney General to file, an indictment.
Click to expand...

Although this rule appears to imply that a nation acting alone may bring forward a charge against another nation (such as Hersfold has done), in previous such cases the Attorney General has been the person who has decided whether a complaint should lead to the formal filing of charges with the Court.

Is the Court, by now indicating that it will be processing this, over-turning previous precedent?

If so, will that leave nations, who have in the past had complaints turned down by the AG, free to now pursue those cases as individuals rather than via the AG's office?

May I also request that the Court ensures that Rule 507 is upheld in this case.

In particular would the Court please note the posting made by the nation making the complaint, in this thread, almost 9 hours after the time stamp on the filing.

This would seem to be in clear breach of Rule 507.
 
The Court has not yet made any determinations regarding whether or not it will be hearing cases based on any petitions filed thus far; rather, its recognition of the petitions is simply a courtesy to indicate that we are aware of them. Determinations regarding actual proceedings shall be made as soon as the Court has an opportunity to examine the petitions in detail.

Any proceedings that may occur will be in accordance with the law of the North Pacific, and the Interim Court Rules as posted.

EDIT - should, no. shall, yes. Also, capitalization is hard.
 
As I believe i must limit whta i say here due to court restrictions, I will hope this is ok.
As to why I'm not persecuting anyone else, that's simply because there is nobody else to persecute. Since, as far as I can tell, the only other UN nations in Camelot are those of NPA forces, there aren't any other RA members violating the law. I'm not quite sure where Fulhead thought he could go with that argument
Click to expand...
Pretty much making sure you wouldnt try to do exactly that! As has been pointed out i've seen the full extent of how far some people will go and I will not have anyone even attempt to say they are bringing charges on non-TNP nations. And you kinda said you would right up in that first post! that was my point!

Not entirely sure how that is, old chap. He quite clearly listed "Lexiconhead" as his UN nation on MoIIA records, indicating that he owned that nation and thus was responsible for it's actions.
Click to expand...

I believe you will find that I did what was required of me by law and told you what my UN was. However as I said in my rebuke, that nation is not, has never been and will not be in the future, a resident of TNP and isnt bound by its laws. Punish Fulhead Land all you want, however Lexiconhead hasnt broken TNP law as it isnt under them! and you can check, FhL hasnt broken the law either!


Thanks again, to Polts and others, for your support! This kind of charge isnt new to me, lets see how far we have come.

If the court would like to tell me i have overstepped the mark, i will edit any remarks that pertain too closely to my case.
 
My supposition then would be that based on previous precedent the Court will almost certainly have to rule that any such case must be brought via the AG's Office.

Should the Court take any other course I suppose that complaints made by nations in the past which never reached the Court due to the refusal of the AG's office to bring them, could use such a new precedent to re-submit indictments on their own behalf.

Presumably the Court would consider a request for a Judicial Review Request on this matter?

As you may have missed the second part of my post in relation to rule 507 could you confirm that the Court will be upholding that rule in this case, from the date and timeof the filing by Hersfold.
 
just an interesting not, the constitutional expert taht is Gross had this to say on the issue:

The key phrase there is "in a manner inconsistent with the Constitution....and Legal Code" which essentially means that one cannot act contrary to the actions of the TNP government as reflected in both documents and in the treaties and agreements made by TNP.

If your TNP nation is involved in such activity that would be actionable. If a nation that a player has that has remained outside of TNP engages in an inconsistent action, then that would be a different matter altogether.
Click to expand...

interesting, huh?
 
The gag rule is not in place because as it clearly states no criminal charges have been brought forth only complaints. Hersfold falls under 506 of Interim Court Rules which by the by, unless italicized isn't law but guidelines as to how the Court should act. Not must act in a legally binding fashion with spankings and all.

Rule 506. Content of complaint.
A - The complaint will plainly state the charged violations and identify each provision of law that are the basis of a particular violation as alleged in the complaint.
B - The complaint will include a summary of the facts as are known as of the time the complaint is filed that support a particular violation alleged in the complaint.

Rule 507. Gag Orders.
A - Once a criminal charge is brought forth, neither the accuser, the defendant, or any party legally recognized as representing them, may reveal or discuss any details of the charge except in areas where specifically asked to do so by the presiding officer of the trial or a legal appointee of the Court. (Source: TNP Law 4.)
B - If discussion about the charge, or subjects related to the charge, is already ongoing at the time that the charge is made, the accuser, the defendant, and any party legally recognized as representing either of them, are forbidden to continue participating in the discussions. (Source: TNP Law 4.)
C - That ban shall continue until the case is resolved and closed by the proper legal official, as mandated by the Constitution, The North Pacific Legal Code, or other laws of the Region. (Source: TNP Law 4.)
Click to expand...

As for the petition against Fullhead land, I need to gather further evidence but as of now I'm leaning towards not spilling milk on the molehole ;).

My right to do this is stated here:
Rule 504. Investigation of criminal complaint.
A - In the case of a request for the filing of an indictment, the Attorney General, if he determines the request is not frivolous, will investigate the request and any information provided in an expeditious manner and determine whether there is sufficient evidence of one or more violations that are described in Article V, Section 5 of the Constitution.
B- The Attorney General may make such inquiries and requests of any nation or region in connection with the investigation determined to be appropriate to the circumstances.
C - Once the investigation is completed, the Attorney General will determine whether the given information provides a reasonable basis to warrant a trial and the Attorney General will either file an indictment that states the charges for trial with the Court, or dismiss the request. In the event an indictment is filed, the presiding officer will call a trial.
Click to expand...

Anyone who questions my ability to do this, cough Cathyy cough, can note that once again the power vested in me is only a rule not law and can ask the Court to either strip me or grant extra powers to accusers. (yeah that's right, I said "strip me" and didn't make it into a lewd joke... someone sure is taking the fun out of the game.)
 
In this particular case it would seem to me that we concur.

The bringing of cirminal charges has been, by precedent, only via the office of the MoJ/Attorney General. It was my concern that this precedent was being ignored which prompted my initial post in this thread.

In my own petition currently before the Court I still beg to differ since I have requested protective action by the Court, not that charges be brought.
 
My decision:

The office of the Ministry of Justice has declined to take up the case against Fullhead, since the nation in which qualifies him as a citizen has not in fact been used against recent NPA action in the region, Camelot. It is the opinion of this ministry that the region as a whole cannot condemn actions by a nation outside of our jurisdiction. However any action commited specifically against the North Pacific or any region in which the NPA is committing enforcement action by a nation who has sworn the oath of duty will be held criminally responsible.
 
mr_sniffles:
My decision:

The office of the Ministry of Justice has declined to take up the case against Fullhead, since the nation in which qualifies him as a citizen has not in fact been used against recent NPA action in the region, Camelot. It is the opinion of this ministry that the region as a whole cannot condemn actions by a nation outside of our jurisdiction. However any action commited specifically against the North Pacific or any region in which the NPA is committing enforcement action by a nation who has sworn the oath of duty will be held criminally responsible.
Click to expand...
In this case, I reluctantly withdraw all charges against Fulhead Land, and offer my apologies to Fulhead, the Attorney General, and the Court for the trouble.

The United Federation of Hersfold
Prime Minister of The North Pacific
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top