Termination of the Embassy to The Lexicon

Dalimbar

Dalimbar

Your Friendly Neighbourhood Despot
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TNP Nation
Cassiars
Due to their new found invader nature and the recent conflict in Camelot between NPA and Lexiden troops, as Minister of External Affairs I feel that it would be appropriate to end relations with The Lexicon until such time that they renounce their current military viewpoints and standing.

My fellow Ministers, I feel it is against our interests to have a formal presence in such a region, and would be hypocritical of our principles to maintain formal communications with The Lexicon.

Under Article 8: The agreement may be reviewed and Terminated by the Governing Bodies of either Region with 24 hours notice.

As such, if I get a seconding vote, I will be making a formal statement to The Government of The Lexicon via our embassy in TL, and we will move forward from there.
 
As a former resident of The Lexicon, I would be interested in the specific examples of discord with the aforementioned region.
 
1. Cooperating with a invader group such as DEN and invading a sovereign, independent region, Camelot.

2. Founding members of The Lexicon flaming several of our members.

3. From what I see aggitation against The North Pacific, though that may be my personal viewpoint.

Under TNP law, I don't have to consult Cabinet about this decision I believe. In the interest of input and democracy in this region howevert, I want Cabinet discussions, but if they (Insane Power and Cathyy), I will be forced to end relations.
 
Points 1 and 3 are valid for reasons to end the diplomatic mission. Point 2 is at the heart of a moderation issue. *nudge nudge* While I do have the authority to adress such issues, I would think that one of the {global mod/Admin/MoEA} would strongly remind Cathyy and IP to behave themselves.
 
AlHoma:
Points 1 and 3 are valid for reasons to end the diplomatic mission. Point 2 is at the heart of a moderation issue. *nudge nudge* While I do have the authority to adress such issues, I would think that one of the {global mod/Admin/MoEA} would strongly remind Cathyy and IP to behave themselves.
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Is this really the main concern and reason for the closure of the embassy, flaming? Or is the key point truly the fact that they have chosen to host a raider army?

I find it concerning that we would not be on good terms with The Lex due to the fact that they do have a good many members in our RA and just the size of their region in general, they would prove a useful ally in times of need.

I for one hope the TNP and Lex can patch up any grievances.
 
There's no question that we want good relations with the Lex and we haven't exactly persecuted members (especially citizens) who we have had military maneuvers with but in my eyes the combination of this and just a very bad diplomatic showing from their side warrants such response. Plus didn't IP request for a closure anyways? (Who is their External Affairs or foreign equivalent?)
 
There's really nothing to say that relations can't be severed if the diplomats aren't being diplomatic... although it is best to have a few other reasons, which in this case, we do.

Sounds good to me. Lack of an embassy doens't mean they can't have members in the RA... heck, BW, we let you and Fedele into the government, for crying out loud... but we are a defender region and they have rather blatantly declared their intentions to be otherwise.
 
What positions do IP and Cathyy hold in the Lexicon? I'd hate for two rabblerousers who don't really represent the region as a whole to be the cause of alienating a whole region.
 
Insane Power is delegate, and both Cathyy and IP are founders - positions which hold a lot of power in the Lexicon constitution.
 
IP and Cathyy make up 1/2 of the "Lex 4". The other two are Fulhead Land and Shoeless Joe.

Shows how much authority they command in the government.
 
*AlHoma digs out his Lexicon Government Structure notes.

Whell...

You can be a high council member if you get voted up, but in order to have a vote you have to be a founder.

Basically it's the Founding 4 plus those who have kissed up enough.

Note: I have a smoldering hostility against IP and Cathyy. Any statements may be collored by the green of jealousy.
 
:console: AlHoma.
Speaking as the Mod who closed the thread, if another region's delegate requests that it be closed, we ought to honor that request. If they wish it to be re-opened, then they engage us in a diplomatic entente, no?
 
Correct. I already gave them a 24 hour notice on their board that diplomatic relations would be closing, so what you did was correct GBM. If they want to have relations again, they will be doing it all from the start.
 
I though embassies/consulates were in no way a show of support for government style or the region's activities!! At least that was the case with Pacific Army!!

I don't really care if we have diplomatic ties with Lexicon, I know little of them to be honest!! It does concern me that the region is going the way of pushing their own beliefs on other regions again!!
 
Poltsamaa:
I don't really care if we have diplomatic ties with Lexicon, I know little of them to be honest!! It does concern me that the region is going the way of pushing their own beliefs on other regions again!!
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Who? Us?

I'm not sure its possible to push beliefs on someone while simultaneously refusing to talk to them...

Besides, the decision to close the embassy is out of our hands now...
 
I wasn't talking about wheteher it is in our hands now or not!! I was talking about the reasons cited for TNP considering closing the Embassy/Consulate!!
 
If were it any other region, any of the individual incidents would have been enough for us to ask whether we should close the embassy.

You say that embassies don't confere support for a style of government or the regions activities. I would be incined to agree. However a line has to be drawn somewhere. And I think when the NPA is actively engaged against another regions military then that line has been crossed.

As to the issue of the breaking forum rules, there are several issues. Should the actions of individuals be held against the many? Does moderation decisions impact on in game relations? Firstly I would say both Cathyy and IP were acting as representatives of the Lex. The posts were made in defense of the Lexicon, and as far as I'm concerned were not the actions of private citizens, but of regional representatives. Had the infringements occured in topics not involving TNP/Lexicon relations I would not think it should impact on the Lex as a whole. As to whether the moderation decision should reflect on in game relations, again I think the answer is yes. Any representative, from any region has the responsibility of acting in a manner which is both respectful and civil. They are a reflection of their region. If an ambassador had conducted themselves in such a manner, no doubt we would have contacted the regional delegate to request a replacement. When half of the founding members of a reigon act in such a way, there is no higher authority to call upon to request a replacement.

In the end, when one is a position of responsibility, such as a delegate, or senior representative of a government, one should be aware that individual actions have consequences for an entire region. If a regions delegate cannot be trusted to keep a civil tongue, it does not bode well for the rest of that regions behaviour. And I see no reason to maintain diplomatic relations with such a region.
 
I'm not 100% up to date on what happened between the NPA and The Lexicon!! From what I can ascertain, the NPA "liberated" a region held by The Lexicon/DEN!! Therefore, if that is indeed the case, the NPA engaged The Lexicon who were doing their own thing!! I find it difficult to believe that they could be held responsible diplomatically for doing what their region does when the NPA decide to oppose them!! If this is wrong then please point me to what happened!!

As for the behaviour of IP and Cathyy, I didn't see much wrong with it besides the expletives which were edited out!! But in the current envitonment I can see how it would be useful to those that want to remove certain elements from the region!!
 
I wondered how long it would take you to show up.

The "Lexiden", for short, invaded the region Camelot. Being the nice-guy defenders that we are, we noticed the invasion, and Dalimbar contacted one of the natives to make sure we would be allowed in. It was a standard mission, except for the fact that we didn't know until now that the Lexicon was an invader region.

Our Constitution makes it clear that we are by principle a defender region. It is illegal for RA members to show support for an invader group we are taking action against (as Fulhead Land now knows). It would be rather paradoxical for us to have open relations with a region who takes part in activities that we consider illegal. Thus, the embassy was closed.
 
You know me, I like to fashionably late!! ;)

Which member nation of the RA turned up during that invasion?!

Secondly, if the NPA engaged The Lexicon as you described, how can that be the fault of members of The Lexicon that they were fighting against the NPA?!

Your answers would be much appreciated!!

Also, as was pointed out during the Pacific Army consulate discussion, opening an Embassy/Consulate does not constitute support for the region's activities!! Merely they act as conduit for communication!! At least, thats what I was told!! Especially as the Pacific Army were talking about invading The Pacific at the time!!
 
I don't think there is any fault on behalf of the Lexicon members. Their doing what they want to do, and good on them. However, I don't see why that means we should automatically maintain diplomatic channels with them. Their direction is going to bring them into conflict with us, and considering the strength of reaction regarding this event, there seems little point in maintaining communications. No relationship seems better than a bad one.

Perhaps had the Lexicon made their intent to enter the invasion business clear to us before engaging in invasions, then the forewarning would have allowed us to consider our reaction should the NPA end up engaging them. However, having had the means of communicating their intent at their disposal, they chose not to use it. Therefore it should not be suprising that upon finding out that a region who not only did we consider a neutral or defender, but had also stressed their 'liberation' missions is infact an invading force, our reactions concerning our diplomatic relation (or lack thereof) is strong.
 
Interesting.

Did the Lexicon breach the terms of their embassy treaty? If not, then I'd advise caution before withdrawing all diplomatic ties from said region. Recalling a diplomat is a serious measure for any region to take; in a real world context it is usually a precursor to war.

I ask that the MoEA think carefully about the possible ramifactions of this action; I'd also ask if he believes there would be much more diplomatic way to resolve the matter?
 
As they have already asked for their embassy to be closed, there is little that can be done. Or indeed achieved in this discussion.

Why am I still here? Well, we all like a good verbal dust up every now and again... :P
 
The embassy was asked to be closed by Insane Power, the resident Delegate there. The whole incident was sparked by a minor skirmish between Lexiden forces and the NPA in Camelot. After which the new propaganda division released a St. Paul-esque news report about our victory there. Cathyy and IP soon hit it off with other members of our region into a which region is better staring contest. Things then devolved from there.

Personally I feel that when the Delegate of one region is sending personal messages to our Prime Minister stating:

Well I am delighted by your message and I will be informing the Corgi's, long may the TNP live even though in it's current format it would rather choke itself.

I shall return and then you can all kiss arse!

I suggest Hersfold you actually get Invisionfree's TOS rather than making it up as you go along. You see Invisionfree don't object to everything you do...and whilst you believe it is ok to call Cathy a fascist Dictator it seems you are less concerned at your own actions. So me cock, enjoy your little dictorial role and one day I will reveal who I am in TNP, I think you will have quite a shock. Look forward to your heart attack.

Love and kisses
IP
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Nah, far easier to leap IP addy and post under an alias under a different IP addy. Makes your job far harder too as you have no idea who I am

Good luck with your vote, I don't give a shit about your Twoslit ways you twat...go screw yourself and I will enjoy posting on your forum and in your IRC in a guise that I have done for 18 months now.

Don't play with your Mother too much..it is illegal...have fun.

All my best
IP
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As found here: http://z13.invisionfree.com/TNP/index.php?...1328&st=0&#last

Anyways when the executive of one region starts saying this to the executive of ours, something tells me it's not us who have failed to be diplomatic.
 
Anyways when the executive of one region starts saying this to the executive of ours, something tells me it's not us who have failed to be diplomatic.
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Harry punches Kyle in the face and Kyle, in turn, chops Harry's head off with an axe. What Kyle did was completely uncalled for but Harry still started it.
 
Fedele:
Anyways when the executive of one region starts saying this to the executive of ours, something tells me it's not us who have failed to be diplomatic.
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Harry punches Kyle in the face and Kyle, in turn, chops Harry's head off with an axe. What Kyle did was completely uncalled for but Harry still started it.
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Ohhhhh Hersfold started it. Well if it works on the playground then it'll work here too.
 
There was a general failure in diplomacy on both sides.

Of course the matter is done with now and probably should be yet another reason for an argument.
 
mr_sniffles:
Fedele:
Anyways when the executive of one region starts saying this to the executive of ours, something tells me it's not us who have failed to be diplomatic.
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Harry punches Kyle in the face and Kyle, in turn, chops Harry's head off with an axe. What Kyle did was completely uncalled for but Harry still started it.
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Ohhhhh Hersfold started it. Well if it works on the playground then it'll work here too.
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The article was what started it.
 
Bullshit. If you (for example) had posted that article they wouldn't have batted an eyelid, and you know it. It has more to do with the author of the article than the article itself which, as has been pointed out, is no different to many PNN and other articles over the history of NS.

Personally I wonder why they're still allowed to post over here.
 
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Putting aside the fact that my post was sarcastic, excessive profanity can be so subjective and does not need to be directed at anyone at all!! Thus, my posts highlights the futility of sctrict interpretations of IF TOS!! If you want to, you can twist the TOS to do your bidding!! I mean, take a look at the reference to abusive, threatening, defamatory, blah, blah, blah!! You could make any post out to be a breach of TOS if you try hard enough!!

Thanks for helping me make my point, Mr.Sniffles!! Your autographed copy of my autobiography is on its way to you!!
 
You miserable little shit! Why haven't I ever gotten one? Anyway...

We no longer have their embassy here and we tossed IP. Why do we have this topic when all this is over with?
 
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