Term Limits

I side with Hersfold on this. As a feeder, TNP is different than player-created regions, and some of our processes are dictated by the fact we are a feeder region. My UN has served as an elected delegate of a player created region for almost 6 months (but it is term-limited and retiring shortly), but that alone does not qualify me to move into a feeder with which I am not familiar and immediately seek election as Delegate. The waters of TNP are treacherous because of its history, and those not familiar with it would cause unnecessary risks.
 
Well, I respect the opinions of both Hers and Grosse, but Iwonder how many newbies would be tempted to run for such a high-profile position to start with.

Even if they do, wouldn't most people in the region go with a more familiar name?
 
I think that's a choice for the voters Wiz and shouldn't be legislated. Being a registered voter should already cover the unfamiliars.
 
wizardofoz01:
Well, I respect the opinions of both Hers and Grosse, but Iwonder how many newbies would be tempted to run for such a high-profile position to start with.

Even if they do, wouldn't most people in the region go with a more familiar name?
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Good point, but we already have some new members planning to run for those high-profile posts in the future. Apollo/PRHQ said somewhere (I think) that he was planning on running for the Delegacy eventually. He, sensibly in my opinion, attempted to run for other offices this election, but there wouldn't have been anything to stop him. He could have easily been the only candidate on the Vice Delegate ballot had he not been ineligible anyway.

Actually, that brings up another point. Since the VD has such a high endo count and isn't as regulated by the Security Council, should it be included in this as well? I know they don't actually do anything, but if the Delegate would happen to become absent for a few days, would we really want to risk a newbie nobody knows in control?

Typical TNP paranoia, I know, but...
 
I agree with Hers and Grosse. That's the whole reason for the one-month service requirement in TNP. I did say I will run for Delegate eventually but it isn't going to be like right now. I mean I have three more months to decide whether or not to run. And plus, some newbies aren'teven going to be elected because they don't know enough about the region and people are more familiar with veterans than newbies. However, you can go into the Sea of Knowledge and come out dry. In the months, I might not know any more than I do now. I could just get my feet "wet". So, there should be some sort of "test" to see if their regional intelligence allows them to run.
 
Hersfold:
Since the VD has such a high endo count and isn't as regulated by the Security Council, should it be included in this as well? I know they don't actually do anything, but if the Delegate would happen to become absent for a few days, would we really want to risk a newbie nobody knows in control?
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I guarantee I put more effort into maintaining my endorsement level (especially during Christmas when around 70 of my endorsements CTE'd) then half the elected ministers put into their respective offices.

Anyways, back to your RA-only discussion...
 
Sirixis:
Hersfold:
Since the VD has such a high endo count and isn't as regulated by the Security Council, should it be included in this as well? I know they don't actually do anything, but if the Delegate would happen to become absent for a few days, would we really want to risk a newbie nobody knows in control?
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I guarantee I put more effort into maintaining my endorsement level (especially during Christmas when around 70 of my endorsements CTE'd) then half the elected ministers put into their respective offices.

Anyways, back to your RA-only discussion...
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My apologies. Since they don't do anything other than endo-tart.... :P
 
Apollo-Industria:
So, there should be some sort of "test" to see if their regional intelligence allows them to run.
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My goodess.. So we have intelligence tests now as a means of deciding who CAN run? Not to pick on you, A-I. I haven't made up my mind on any potential resolution on newbies having to serve one term of office before running for PM or Delegate, but I guarantee I would fight to my dying breath against any kind of test.


If a newbie wanted to run for an important position such as Delegate or PM, and they had no opposition, I'm sure that the sight of a newbie running for such an office would induce someone to run against them if only to offer a choice.

I would find it more palatable if we said 1-month for every other office except PM and Delegate, which requires (as an example) 3 months or 6 months in the region (no previous term of office required). I would even be willing to support that this include not only a time period, but also a certain % of RA votes that the candidate should have shown up for during that time period. Of course, this would apply not only to newbies but to every PM/Delegate candidate. But since all the veterans vote regularly (I think), they wouldn't have a problem meeting that requirement.
 
There is nothing that prevents the Vice Delegate from being invited to participate in a discussion in the Security Council that involves the Delegate.

As to residency requirements, a month before the declaration period would be in effect six weeks plus before the end of the election or half a term of office. That might work for some offices but certainly not the Prime Minister or the Delegate. I am still inclined to favor a prior term in another office for those two positions.

We already have a special requirement for the Minister of Defense (NPA endorsement) so imposition of a requirement of prior office within the region would not be outside of a requirement in addition to a period of residence within the region.
 
wizardofoz01:
My goodess.. So we have intelligence tests now as a means of deciding who CAN run? Not to pick on you, A-I. I haven't made up my mind on any potential resolution on newbies having to serve one term of office before running for PM or Delegate, but I guarantee I would fight to my dying breath against any kind of test.
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I'm not quite sure he actually meant a test... I think he was using that to mean the "trial by fire" by holding another office first. I think. Maybe not.

I wouldn't argue against a longer residency requirement, but that could make things a little more difficult for the election commissioners. (Heh - I just contradicted myself, didn't I?) I'd still go with the term requirement.
 
I sincerely hope he didn't. :lol:


Well, I've said my piece on the prior experience thing. Surely there are more opinions out there?

I think since both Hers and Grosse agree in principle on the prior term requirement for a PM/Delegate candidate, we can use that as a new starting point of the discussion.
 
Yea; what Hers said. Either that or a naturalization test... :shifty: jk. But if you must hold a political office before then, what about the people who haven't won an election yet? I guess that is to be the test but what if people just don't want that person to run and always vote against him/her? He/She could be in the region for like a year and not get elected. I say more of like a 2 or 3-month service. And think, when war time comes, we could use this as a draft. :noangel:

EDIT: Though, as I have said before, you can go into the Sea of Knowledge and come out dry...
 
Well, going off of wizard's post, here's an extremely rough draft:

Amendment to whatever section this happens to apply to of The North Pacific Constitution, yada yada.

Insert appropriate number here) Nations may serve up to two consecutive terms in any Cabinet-Level position, and/or as Prime Minister, UN Delegate, and/or Vice Delegate. No nation may serve more than three such terms within a one-year period.
Insert appropriate number here) Nations who wish to run for the offices of Prime Minister, UN Regional Delegate, and Vice Delegate shall be required to have held at least one term, as defined above/below/in such-and-such a section, prior to declaring candidacy for the position.
Insert appropriate number here) Nations who wish to run for the offices of Prime Minister, UN Regional Delegate, and Vice Delegate shall be required to have been active members of the regional forums and a registered voter for at least three months prior to declaring candidacy for the position.
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So there you go. Tear it apart.
 
In my humble opinion as a mod of this forum, I think we are amazingly ON-topic this time.


This is a related issue (and one that people seem to be disagreeing more about), and most people seem to have coalesced around the idea that there is a 2-term consecutive limit, but no yearly limit. Thus a person can serve a maximum of 3 out of 4 Cabinet terms per year.

Hers - Just a question. If we require them to already have held once office, wouldnt that second part (about being in TNP at least three months) be redundant? If they have already held an office, they will have automatically been in TNP at minimum 4 months (1 month before declaring for an office, 3 months serving).
 
I'll split out the double for you, Schnauzer.

@ Sniffles: :duh: Ha, you're right. That was incredibly stupid of me. I'll go put that in.

@ Wizard: Yes, it would be. I obviously wasn't thinking when I typed that.
Edit: Although taking Schnauzer's point into consideration, it should probably be left in there.

Any other retarded things I put in/left out/otherwise screwed up? :blush:
 
Would we consider service as a deputy as proof of ability/interest , which I think is what the time or service requirement is intended to address?
 
That should do. The general idea is just for them to get acquainted with our government workings, and that should be a lot easier for actual newbies to manage.
 
Well, aren't we talking about one whole term of service here?

If the person serves 1/2 a term or less, then he still would not be eligible, correct?

So if a person served 1/2 a term minus one day, then that person would still need another 3 month term before declaring for PM/Delegate.

If that's so, then the part about being a resident here for 3 months would still be unnecessary right? :blink:
 
It would still be necessary.

There's always a possibility a deputy becomes a Minister with one day more than half of the term, and the deputy arrived in the region and was appointed within the first half of the term. It counts as a term, and the deputy who gets credit for a term, could run with less than three months of residency.

Maybe by requiring that the candidate has to serve a full term solves the problem?
 
I believe they're saying that, while newcomers could be Deputies, they would not be allowed to claim a partial term in which they served as full Minister to replace the residency requirement.
 
That's an interesting idea.

But what if the partial term was just one week or two? Would that consititute a full term of limitation requirements?

For instance, I'm serving as acting Moj, and technically I am not the MoJ as I was never made MoJ officially as the Constitution requires. Under the Constitution, since I served less than one half of a term had I been made MoJ officially, it isn't considered a 'term' as per limitations.
 
Amendment to Term Limits and Office Eligibility

(Bold) = old language

Article 3, Section 3:
1) No person, through one or more Nations, who has acted in any Cabinet-level position as Delegate, as Prime Minister, or as a particular Cabinet Minister, for more than one half of a term to which some other person was originally elected, shall be subsequently elected to that elected office of the Cabinet more than once, pursuant to this section.
2)(No person, through one or more Nations, may hold any Cabinet-level position for more than two consecutive terms.) Nations may serve up to two consecutive terms in any Cabinet-Level position, and/or as Prime Minister, UN Delegate, and/or Vice Delegate.
3) No person, through one or more Nations, may hold any Cabinet-level position for more than (two) three terms within a one year period.
4) No person, through one or more Nations, may hold any Cabinet-level position for more than (four terms) six terms (consecutive or otherwise) over a two year period.
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Article 3, Section 4, a new Clause 3 (thereby pushing the others one number more)

2) The Nation must be a member Nation of the Region, and be an active Regional off-site forum member for a minimum of one month prior to the date of the acceptance of a nomination to, or a declaration of candidacy for, elective office. Should a member Nation be inactive or leave the Regional off-site forum for a period of three weeks or more, they shall be required to become and remain active in the Regional off-site forum for at least one week following their return before that Nation may accept any nomination to, or declare itself as a candidate for, any office. Nations who wish to run for the offices of Prime Minister, UN Regional Delegate, and Vice Delegate shall be required to have been active members of the regional forums and a registered voter for at least three months prior to declaring candidacy for the position.
3) Nations who wish to run for the offices of Prime Minister, UN Regional Delegate, and Vice Delegate shall be required to have held at least one term, as defined above/below/in such-and-such a section, prior to declaring candidacy for the position.
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So yeah, what do you think? (and yeah, I'm new to this so bear with me.) Should clause 2 of the eligibility be expanded to include the new requirments for the PM, Del, ViceDel as it pertains to activity in the regional forum or be its own new separate clause?

EDIT- AHHHH GODDAMN ACURSED CODE!
 
First point is that as a constitutional amendment, provisions actually amending the constitution would not be classified as a "TNP Law." If there are provisions of a proposal that do not add to, change, or delete provisions in the Constitution itself, then those specific provisions would be classified as a TNP Law, provided the proposal specifies which parts of the proposal relates to the Constitution and which parts relates to the Legal Code, and provided the entire proposal is approved as a constitutional amendment that happens to include provisions that are statutory.

Second, don't include the TNP Law number for new provisions since some other bill might be enacted first.
 
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