Colonization and Annexation

Hersfold

Hersfold

TNPer
A Proposed Amendment to the Constitution​


Regarding a New Cabinet Position and the Formation of Colonies​

A) Minister of Territories

A new Cabinet-Level Ministerial position shall be hereby created, known as the Minister of Territories. The Minister of Territories duties shall include:

1) The administration of the creation and annexation of colonies
2) Liason between the governments of the colonies of The North Pacific and the Regional Government.

B) Colonization

1) Any Registered Voter may request clearance from the Minister of Territories to found a new region in the name of The North Pacific.
2) Once clearance is granted, the Registered Voter shall be permitted to found the new region with their TNP nation and retain status as a Registered Voter.
3) The colony's founder is charged with the internal administration of the colony until such a time as when the colony sets up a working government.
4) The colony shall have all rights of a colony as stated in Section D below.

C) Annexation

1) Any Region may request the Minister of Territories for Colony status, through authority of their proper governmental procedures. The Prime Minister and the Minister of Territories must co-sign the annexation order.
2) When the annexation order is issued, the annexed region shall have all the rights of a colony as stated in Section D below.
3) The standing government of an annexed region shall remain in place and will remain responsible for the internal administration of their region.

D) Rights of Colonies

Any Colonized or Annexed Region (collectively "colonies") shall have the following rights within The North Pacific Empire:

1) All colonies shall have unrestricted internal administraion. Foreign policy shall be that of The North Pacific's, and administered by the Minister of External Affairs as specified in Article III, Section 2, Clause 4.
2) All members of a colony shall be permitted to Register to Vote in The North Pacific. Article II, Section 2, Clause 2 shall be amended to read:

2) Nations that reside in The North Pacific or any legally established colony and who agree to abide by the requirements outlined in Article II, Section 1, of this Constitution will request registered voter status at the Regional off-site forum by posting a request in a thread for that exclusive purpose, created by the Minister of Immigration and Internal Affairs.
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3) All members of an annexed region's military force shall be granted automatic positions in the North Pacific Army.
4) All colonies shall be permitted to recruit freely in any part of The North Pacific Empire, provided that the following guidelines are followed:

a) No ad may be longer than 25 lines in length, including blank spaces.
b) No colony may post more than one ad per region per day (as per NationStates rules).
c) No colony may post an ad when they already have an ad visible on the Regional HQ.
d) Recruitment in regions not part of The North Pacific is subject to regional and NS regulations.

5) All members of a colony shall be protected by the Declaration of Rights, Article I of this Constitution.
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This is a draft, and is naturally subject to debate, re-write, etc. For a detailed reasoning behind this proposal, please view this post.
 
Wait till some sort of consensus has been made in the original thread? That said, my opinion doesn't really matter, I just don't want to see ya'll jumping into anything without considering the concequences.
 
"North Pacific Empire"?

Don't think so.

Besides which one would need to add language to Article III, section2 to create a new Ministry.
 
The empire idea is good, but it requires more than just some quick fixes to the Constitution.

Read the constitution through, some of the stuff is already in place, but we need to streamline our system first :P
 
4) All colonies shall be permitted to recruit freely in any part of The North Pacific Empire, provided that the following guidelines are followed:

a) No ad may be longer than 25 lines in length, including blank spaces.
b) No colony may post more than one ad per region per day (as per NationStates rules).
c) No colony may post an ad when they already have an ad visible on the Regional HQ.
d) Recruitment in regions not part of The North Pacific is subject to regional and NS regulations.
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That conflicts with NS rules a bit. I would say something more along the lines of:

4) All colonies shall be permitted to recruit freely in any part of The North Pacific Empire, provided that the following guidelines are followed:
a) No ad may be placed in a region that is not a region specifically designated as a region that can be legally advertised in by the NationStates moderators or does not make it clear by statement in the world factbook entry that advertising is acceptable.b) No ad may be longer than 25 lines in length, including blank spaces.
c) No colony may post more than one ad per region per day (as per NationStates rules).
d) No colony may post an ad when they already have an ad visible on the Regional HQ.
e) Recruitment in regions not part of The North Pacific is subject to regional and NS regulations.
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I dunno, maybe one of y'all can word that better
 
I think that there should also be a provision for the annexation of existing regions as locations for colonization.
 
While the creation of a new Cabinet position would require an amendment, Protectorates are already addressed in the Constitution. You would just need to put something in the Legal Code about them.

C - Provisions for the establishment of a commonwealth relationship, a protectorate relationship, a colony relationship or other political relationships with other regions by treaty or agreement shall be established in the North Pacific Legal Code. A treaty or agreement that provides for establishment of a commonwealth relationship shall expressly provide for the rights of nations of the other region to acquire full and equal citizenship and registered voter status in The North Pacific under the provisions of this Constitution.
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Edit: However, I do believe that Colonizing should be one of the last steps, not the first ones. I agree it could be a very fruitful idea, however.
 
Sorry, but no. Firstly, random RV's going off to create new regions as colonies is potentially incredibly pointless (lots of regions with 3 or 4 members, yay!) unless they are planning to spend a lot of time recruiting (e.g. therefore with less activity here).

Secondly, I fail to see any benefit in any way for TNP from this. Aside from becoming completely isolated in the world. We don't have the military forces to support (or defend) this kind of endevour and aside from regions where someone here might have a friend or something, I can't see any region having any interest in joining with us.

At present the idea is beyond our means, to put it mildly and longer term it would need to be better thought out than this.
 
I think we should put this proposal on hold while we consider ammending the Constitution regarding RVs/RAs, delegate/minister power, trial system, etc.
 
I'm afraid I also agree with ^ and ^^ that this is a step too far, too soon.

I personally am with those who have suggested that TNP should first get its own interntal house in order.

I believe that a Feeder region should see as one of its primary roles the development and support of new players to the game.

I may be 'behind the times' here but how much recruitment has been done for TNP? How far have we gone not only just to say Hi to newcomers but to make them feel welcome and not an outsider in an established club?

I believe the Constitution is far too long for most newbies to want to bother to read, still less to actually understand.

I won't go into detail on that here as this is not the purpose of this thread.

But until/unless these issues are addressed then I would not be in favour of such an externally focussed proposal.
 
Well... I for one like the idea very much. I do agree that we need to get our ducks in a row before even considering such an idea, but this could provide massive benefits for TNP.

If we first establish a strong military, perhaps excercise it a bit in warzones, the possibility of "member regions" etc. is really quite brilliant. Every day massive amounts of talent flood out of TNP. How can we keep it in? We can't, but why not at least have it go out to regions with which we collaborate to further strengthen TNP? This possibility could also go miles in reversing our massive stagnation issues.

However, we must put some limitation on who may go forth and start a region for The North Pacific. Perhaps some short application process? It might also be wise, in order to ensure that regions don't become complacent under the shield of TNP, that a region must maintain a certain amount of population, etc.
 
If this isn't the thing to do right now, then that's fine by me. I have been to another region to see if this sort of thing would be possible, and by sheer chance of luck, the region I visited already has a working colonization (they call it "township") program.

From God Bless the USA, Founder of Government:

Well, we have found that most states of america are founderless and were being invaded fairly often... so what we have done is start electing governors with the natives. We then use our army to install the governor. We help them with recruitment and they in turn use our forum. It keeps their regions safe from invasion, if they are invaded, our army comes over and helps. It keeps our forum active and alive.

so win win for both.
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Glad to help. Just a FYI, I was also the president of the region global right alliance in the past. There, I created the same program called the township program. It does work, just need to be very very patient and work on 1 region at a time. Do not take on too much at once or the plan will fail.
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So this is possible, with time. But if this isn't the time, I have no problem with waiting a bit longer.
 
I'm glad you're willing to hold off, Hers, because I think this proposal will be fantastic for TNP once we have the infrastructure to support it.
 
Agreed. I'd wait till atleast after the next election and regroup before we start playing around with things too much.

*Hands Fedele a brick* It works better, you know. :P
 
Alright but I suggest we keep this topic at lease semi-active cause I would hate for this proposal to be forgotten and die a sad pitiful death

and while we are on it

Sorry, but no. Firstly, random RV's going off to create new regions as colonies is potentially incredibly pointless (lots of regions with 3 or 4 members, yay!) unless they are planning to spend a lot of time recruiting (e.g. therefore with less activity here).
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I say we put forth limits and rules for acceptance so we dont have 3 or 4 nation regions, I would say the region should be at least 15 nations plus to be accepted and must stay above that line to keep its status as a colony
 
Blue Wolf II:
I say we put forth limits and rules for acceptance so we dont have 3 or 4 nation regions, I would say the region should be at least 15 nations plus to be accepted and must stay above that line to keep its status as a colony
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Yes... keep in mind the proposal does require that the Minister of Territories (if we choose to have one, that could just as easily be the PM or someone) approve of a new colony before it is founded. If the MoT thinks we have too many, he can put a hold on new colonies for the time.
 
...Minister of Territories...
dribble.gif
 
This sounds like a lot of fun. Someone said that we can't get people in the region, and as a self-confessed newbie, I'll say that if this was done right it would do wonders for that. I don't think that many will argue when I say that presiding over colonies sounds a lot more fun to most people than drudging through a constitution.
 
The key assumption behind this proposal is that such "colonies" would naturally attract people who are actually interested in participating.. unless "colonies" is only a way for people to become their own mini-dictator.

In the other thread we are talking about eliminating or cutting down on some bureaucracy, and here we're talking about ADDING a Minister of Territories?
 
wizardofoz01:
In the other thread we are talking about eliminating or cutting down on some bureaucracy, and here we're talking about ADDING a Minister of Territories?
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Ah, well, yes. Which is why this has been shoved in a pigeon-hole for the moment. :ermm:

But like I said, that job could probably be delegated to a few existing offices... more work for them, but still less government people to deal with.
 
Hersfold:
Blue Wolf II:
I say we put forth limits and rules for acceptance so we dont have 3 or 4 nation regions, I would say the region should be at least 15 nations plus to be accepted and must stay above that line to keep its status as a colony
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Yes... keep in mind the proposal does require that the Minister of Territories (if we choose to have one, that could just as easily be the PM or someone) approve of a new colony before it is founded. If the MoT thinks we have too many, he can put a hold on new colonies for the time.
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Home office, Foreign Office, Colonial Office........

[on edit]

Perhaps I should clarify - you don't need to creat new ministries for these potential positions - you can create offices withing the ministries to accomplish these functions. That way, you can do it legislatively instead of amending the Constitution.


R
 
Not so much 'kill joy' but rather efficiency. The idea is to use the legislative process to accomlish the various miniutia within the confines of the Constitution rather than to amend the Constitution at ever step of the way.

R
 
As I see it, amending the Legal Code would be an easier step than changing the Constitution, since protectorates are not able to be fully controlled by the North Pacific, which would be desirable. Just alter the Code to redefine them at a half-way point, thus avoiding the "empire" feeling.

As to the creation of 3-4 member regions, that's a very valid point, but I think a good solution would be to establish temporary "special circumstances" under which two or three members may experiment with founding colonies, receiving aid from the home government as the Assembly decides. If, in two months time, one of them has grown to 50 members, the Assembly should consider altering the Legal Code.

Again, outdated thread, but I thought I'd throw that in.
 
Personally I feel this will do nothing but drain our current resources and bloat our government. Perhaps, we could expand the MoEA's duties to cover this and MoIIA to check out the prospective newcomers but once again this will drain our current talent.

Wiz, you want some movement in cabinet for this?
 
TNP Law 13: Colonization and Annexation

A) Colonization

1) Any Regional Assembly member may request clearance from the Minister of External Affairs (or Territories) to create a new region in the name of The North Pacific.
2) Once clearance is granted, the Regional Assembly member shall be permitted to found the new region with their TNP nation and retain status as a Member of the Regional Assembly.
3) The colony's founder is charged with the internal administration of the colony until such a time as when the colony sets up a working government.
4) The colony shall have all rights of a colony as stated in Section C below.

B) Annexation

1) Any Region may request the Minister of External Affairs (or Territories) for Colony status, through authority of their proper governmental procedures. The Prime Minister and the Minister of External Affairs (or Territories) must co-sign the annexation order.
2) When the annexation order is issued, the annexed region shall have all the rights of a colony as stated in Section C below.
3) The standing government of an annexed region shall remain in place and will remain responsible for the internal administration of their region.

C) Rights of Colonies

Any Colonized or Annexed Region (collectively "colonies") shall have the following rights within The North Pacific Empire:

1) All colonies shall have unrestricted internal administraion. Foreign policy shall be that of The North Pacific's, and administered by the Minister of External Affairs as specified in Article III, Section 2, Clause 4.
2) All members of a colony shall be permitted to the Regional Assembly in The North Pacific. Article II, Section 2, Clause 2 shall be amended to read:

 
2) Nations that reside in The North Pacific or any legally established colony and who agree to abide by the requirements outlined in Article II, Section 1, of this Constitution will request to join the Regional Assembly at the Regional off-site forum by posting a request in a thread for that exclusive purpose, created by the Minister of Immigration and Internal Affairs.
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3) All members of an annexed region's military force shall be granted automatic positions in the North Pacific Army.
4) All colonies shall be permitted to recruit freely in any part of The North Pacific Empire, provided that the following guidelines are followed:
a) No ad may be longer than 15 lines in length, including blank spaces.
b) No colony may post more than one ad per region per day (as per NationStates rules).
c) No colony may post an ad when they already have an ad visible on the Regional HQ.
d) Recruitment in regions not part of The North Pacific is subject to regional and NS regulations.
5) All members of a colony shall be protected by the Declaration of Rights, Article I of this Constitution.
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As for the creation of a new ministry or expansion of existing ministries should we maybe a have an informal vote??
 
I don't see how colonies can have full internal administration and can then sit in the TNP Regional Assembly and potentially decide our internal laws, or how the Bill of Rights from our Constitution can apply in their colony without preventing them from full internal administration either.

I would divide it up so that Colonies are under the full control of TNP and all legislation passed applies to all colonies or do not allow them into the Regional Assembly. Or perhaps divide things up so that you have Colonies, Protectorates and Dominions for example.

Personally, however, while I like this idea a lot I do not feel that we are in a position to be able to implement it effectively.
 
Haor Chall:
I don't see how colonies can have full internal administration and can then sit in the TNP Regional Assembly and potentially decide our internal laws, or how the Bill of Rights from our Constitution can apply in their colony without preventing them from full internal administration either.

I would divide it up so that Colonies are under the full control of TNP and all legislation passed applies to all colonies or do not allow them into the Regional Assembly. Or perhaps divide things up so that you have Colonies, Protectorates and Dominions for example.

Personally, however, while I like this idea a lot I do not feel that we are in a position to be able to implement it effectively.
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limiting Colonies' rights and ability to contribute to the North Pacific will not only spurn regions considering annexing but would create a system where we simply lord over the vanquished.

Something I'm very very opposed to.
 
As I recall, the consensus a month or two back was that this topic is premature.

I'm not sure why the Attorney General is persuing this, and I would prefer to see a demonstration of how this draft bill implements the provisions of Article II Section 4 of the Constitution, especially the provisdions concerning political relationships in that section.
 
Well Article II, Section 4, allows expansion of foreign affairs not already dictated in that passage. In fact, it specifically calls for a law if the will is wished for expansion to colonies and allowing annexation. This law would do that. It implements those provisions by allow guidelines as to how we would accept colonies and how we would treat colonies while outlining ours and their political rights. The most important feature is of course, jurisdiction.

Personally, I'm against it in all its forms and I'm acting as a member of the Regional Assembly and only as a cabinet minister frustrated by the slow pace of proposals left over from the previous administration. Even if it fails at a vote, there will always be the option of raising it back up again later like Hers and GoalVA wanted.
 
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