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GoalVA

GoalVA

TNPer
Something for us to be aware of.

02:40 < william> I hope you will be pleased that Nasicournia has opened an
                embassy in Pacific Army and doesn't plan on punishing those
                who hold dual citizenship in PA
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If that's true we should assess our standing with Nasi, no?
 
If they are supporting Pacific Army in its quest to destroy the PRP then we should express our disappointment and reconsider the pact we have with Nasicournia!!

Personally, I believe it is blatantly obvious that PA is an offshoot of Nasicournia run by Nasicournia!!
 
Hmm, I'm getting a bit sick of the PA. Writing up something sounds good, but I think something a bit harsher than disappointment should be drawn up.
 
Pardon my ignorance, I've been building an oversized ginger bread house the past two days. What has the PA done now?
 
The Pacific have issued a statement declaring Nasicournia an "enemy region" after their support for Pacific Army was made official!!

I believe a statement of support for The Pacific government is necessary on the grounds that Nasicournia's actions are a direct assault on the sovereignty of The Pacific!!

The statement should reiterate both our condemnation of the antics of Pacific Army and also a reiteration of our acknowledgement of the legitimate government of The Pacific being the one that has stood for the past 2 years!!

I am not calling for Nasicournia to be declared our enemy as they are within their rights to do as they please in their region!! We do have the right however to support our fellow feeders when faced with aggression from other regions and renegade groups!!

I'll draw up a statement later for cabinet perusal and discussion with a view to posting the statement publicly in the next 24-48 hours!!
 
Forgive me for this, but has TNP officially recognized the PRP as the legitimate government of The Pacific in the past?

And as to the support, I'm curious what you mean by support The Pacific. If we're not going against Nasicournia, how far does the support extend?

For this statement...
...on the grounds that Nasicournia's actions are a direct assault on the sovereignty of The Pacific!!
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Would the outside support for the NPC then have been considered a direct assault on the sovereignty of The North Pacific? I'm curious how much TNP wants to be involved in the other Pacifics and deciding what is right or wrong there.
 
The statement should reiterate both our condemnation of the antics of Pacific Army and also a reiteration of our acknowledgement of the legitimate government of The Pacific being the one that has stood for the past 2 years!!
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Sorry to butt in, but i believe Erastide is right. I am pretty sure that we have never "iterated" our acknowledgement of the PRP, nor our condemnation of the PA, let alone reiterated them.

When the PRP were first permitted to open an embassy on S2 it was clearly stated (in cabinet at least, if not in public threads) that this was simply an acknowldgement of a de facto situation in NS, and not a statement of support or legitimacy.

As far as the Pacific Army goes, should we issue a statement of condemnation of them, I look forward to Polts also drafting a statement condemning the NPU/NPC for it's actions during the Pixiedance era, and breaking ties with all the regions who supported us.

I can provide a list, if Poltsamaa needs one.

PS I cannot understand why we are thinking of getting involved in this one - on either side!
 
As you are not a member of cabinet, Flem, you are not supposed to post in here, please do not abuse you admin powers in this manner!! However, I will entertain your comment and those of Erastide!!

Erastide:
Forgive me for this, but has TNP officially recognized the PRP as the legitimate government of The Pacific in the past?
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I have no idea what has been said or done in the past!! However, we have denounced the Pacific Army whose sole reason to exist is to destroy the PRP!! I guess I extrapolated!! Regardless, no statement was to be made until the cabinet had reviewed it for this very reason!!

And as to the support, I'm curious what you mean by support The Pacific. If we're not going against Nasicournia, how far does the support extend?
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Supporting their moves to protect their sovereignty!! They have declared Nasicournia an "enemy region" for seekign to infringe on their regional sovereignty and I believe that we should make a statement in support of that move by the PRP!! Whether anyone else agree with that is also the purpose of discussing this here before making any official statement!!

Would the outside support for the NPC then have been considered a direct assault on the sovereignty of The North Pacific? I'm curious how much TNP wants to be involved in the other Pacifics and deciding what is right or wrong there.
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If the outside support entailed training and tactical spport to overthrow the regional government then yes, it was a direct attack on the sovereignty of TNP!! The difference being that PA is not supporting any resident group in The Pacific!! I do not want any involvement in other pacifics, but I believe the feeders need to look out for one another when people from other regions seek to exploit and undermine feeder governments!!

Flemingovia:
Sorry to butt in, but i believe Erastide is right. I am pretty sure that we have never "iterated" our acknowledgement of the PRP, nor our condemnation of the PA, let alone reiterated them.
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Actually, we have condemned the PA recently!! clicky!!

When the PRP were first permitted to open an embassy on S2 it was clearly stated (in cabinet at least, if not in public threads) that this was simply an acknowldgement of a de facto situation in NS, and not a statement of support or legitimacy.
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Well, I believe accepting an embassy is a sign of recognition of the government!! I would also be hoping that we could recognise the PRP as the government of The Pacific, they have been the government for 2 years, time to accept the reality!!

As far as the Pacific Army goes, should we issue a statement of condemnation of them, I look forward to Polts also drafting a statement condemning the NPU/NPC for it's actions during the Pixiedance era, and breaking ties with all the regions who supported us.

I can provide a list, if Poltsamaa needs one.

PS I cannot understand why we are thinking of getting involved in this one - on either side!
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See above!! And I have not sought to break ties with any region in this matter, so your comments are debating non-issues!!

Thinking about things never hurt anyone Flem, it's when you stop thinking and close your maind that things go awry!!

Now, please do not post in this section of the forum again unless in direct response to comments in this thread!!
 
Anyway, here is a draft statement to look over!!

The Government of The North Pacific expresses its disappointment at Nasicournia's act of aggression against government of The People's Republic of The Pacific by opening an Embassy in Pacific Army and therefore recognising this renegade group and its goals.

The Government of The North Pacific understands and respects the actions taken by the Government of The People's Republic of The Pacific in protecting its regional sovereignty from the unprovoked act of aggression.
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Please look over it, discuss it, suggest changes or dismiss it if you so desire!!
 
Apologies. The cabinet forum area on S2 was in the public domain, and I sort of assumed this one was too.

I will not overstep my place again.
 
It's alright Flem,

There is a public area of the cabinet, but this is a private discussion room for ideas to be thrown around.

Now, we already recognise the PRP (see the Embassy treaty) as the legitimate government of the Pacific, and have done for at least four months now. If Nasi is happy to support an assualt upon the sovereignty of a feeder region, we should be willing to speak out against it -- our foreign policy dictates that we support the other feeders above all over regions.

That said, this could be kicking a hornet's nest that could effect TNP adversly. We've been quite lucky that the ADN haven't tried to put pressure on us at the minute, but if we were to openly denounce Nasicournia, that could change.

Ultimately, I'm more than happy to tell Nasicournia to go fornicate with themselves, but I shall bow to the rest of the cabinet on this matter.

[edit]

Perhaps we should re-iterate that will give no aid of any kind of those dedicated to destroying the regional sovereignty of our feeder sisters?
 
I guess my problem (although not really much of one), would be if a comparison were to be made between the Pacific Army and the NPC or resistance under GB. Although given how each of TNP's was in reaction to fairly immediate events while the Pacific Army's event loooong passed, it's not really a valid point.

If Nasicournia hadn't come and outright supported the Pacific Army, would the Pacific Army still have been okay as a... "supposed" group of natives trying to change their region? Or is the long running nature of the PRP/NPO supposed to protect them from that?

The Government of The North Pacific expresses its disappointment at Nasicournia's act of aggression against government of The People's Republic of The Pacific by opening an Embassy in Pacific Army and therefore recognising this renegade group and its goals. 
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At the end, can something be added about disrupting the stability or peace of the government of The Pacific?
The Government of The North Pacific understands and respects the actions taken by the Government of The People's Republic of The Pacific in protecting its regional sovereignty from the unprovoked act of aggression.
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For some reason, I want to take out understands and leave the respects part. I'd like to think The North Pacific reacts differently to renegade groups. We make them join us and make TNP better. :p
 
Erastide:
If Nasicournia hadn't come and outright supported the Pacific Army, would the Pacific Army still have been okay as a... "supposed" group of natives trying to change their region?  Or is the long running nature of the PRP/NPO supposed to protect them from that?
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Emphasis mine.

Eras, you confused me! Okay by whom?

Us? Probably not, after two years. I think it's safe to say that if there was a battle, it's long over and the citizens would much prefer the PRP as government than whatever the Pacific Army has to offer.

The Pacific? *shrugs* Who can say.
 
Recieved some interesting Intel, can we sit on this until I've had a chance to speak to Polts and Heft?
 
I disagree. We need to keep our noses out of this. This is a blatantly divisive issue considering the makeup of the population, and we don't need to add to the finger-pointing in the least.
 
I do not, nor do I presume to speak for Nasicournia here. What I speak for is my position here in these matters. I support Nasi, and I will fight with them, but I will not stand for a conflict btween two other regions to start us fighting amongst ourselves.

AND I reiterate: We do not need to get involved. Call it a fullest desire for isolationism until we're sure things have quieted down, because that's what it is. While here, and acting in my Official capacity, my loyalties like here, and it is to and from that loyalty I make my reccomendation. I will not stand to have my words twisted upon any other basis.
 
I am not trying to encourage infighting, but what I would suggest it that all citizens act in the interests of TNP when they are here.

If Nasicournia is supporting The Pacific Army I will be inclined to slacken our contact with them. I shall not advocate getting involved in this cold war between the states any more than that though.
 
Well, The Pacific are currently making a move to defend their sovereignty.

If they make a first strike, or commit a war-like action I would be more inclined to slacked our relations from them. As it stands, it could be construed that Nasicournia, via the Pacific Army, are the aggressor in this matter.
 
I do not see how that should make any kind of difference. We do not need to show any sort of support in any way, shape, or form to either side. Showing preference due to opinion of aggression (of which I would disagree with you, by the by) is absolutely no reason to show favor in the slackening of relations with either.

We should act swiftly, decicively, and impartially.
 
As our foreign policy states, whilst we are neutral, if we are to act it would be to support our feeder-sisters.

If Nasicournia /does/ decide to support the war by the Pacific Army against the PRP, I will be suggesting that we move away from them politically.
 
If Nasicournia does decide to support the war by the Pacific Army against the PRP, we should still keep our noses out of it.
 
Why exactly? If Nasicournia wishes to infringe upon the regional sovereignty of a sister-feeder, I think we have a right to speak out about it.
 
I have to agree with Goal there. If Nasi wants to support a war against the PRP, we should at least make a statement supporting the PRP.

Edit: Just read the announcement in the nasi embassy.

I've been busy the past week, not sure exactly what has happened, I'll need to check out both forums. However, I'm naturally inclined to lean the PRP's way, especially since they are a sister-feeder.
 
I agree with Goal, we cannot turn a blind eye to open aggression against the sovereignty of any region, least of all a fellow feeder region!! The PRP has acted with decorum throughout this episode, the same cannot be said of Pacific Army and the Nasicournians that make up its numbers!!
 
Right!

Firstly, I apologise if I have been unclear recently. I have been trying to assess the situation and have been speaking my mind rather more than I should.

Here is my current assessment of the situation:

The situation so far:
  • The Pacific Army is dedicated to the downfall of the Pacific.
  • Nasicournia opens embassies with many regions; they do not seem to hold them in the same regard that we do.
  • The Pacific have assumed, whether rightly or wrongly, that by opening an Embassy that Nasicournia are supporting the cause of the Pacific Army
  • Nations from Nasicournia are also top ranking members of the Pacific Army
  • The Refuge are standing ready to support the Pacific Army/Nasicournia.
  • The pacific cannot wage military war, but Nasicournia can
  • Both parties are renowned for their Intelligence departments
We must also consider the following:
  • Many of our RAs/RVs appear to hold dual-citizenship with either one of the parties
  • TNP and Nasicournia have a traditionally old friendship
  • TNP and The Pacific are newer friends, but are also sibling regions.
  • Intelligence reports suggest that Nasicournia would be prepared to push TNP away from The Pacific, should we show too much support (this is unverified)
  • The Pacific are closing diplomatic ties with regions they see to support the Pacific Army
  • Our Military is not comparable to either party
  • Both parties have a history of infiltration into regions.
Using this information I have come to the following conclusions.
  • It is not in TNP's best interest to support either party in this campaign
  • We have an immediate problem of loyalty in our ranks
  • We should make a statement showing our neutrality in this matter and open our borders to refugees
  • We should be very aware of attempts to bring us into this conflict
  • We should increase our diplomatic presence in both regions, with a view to offering some kind of mediation.
  • Whilst our Foreign Policy says that we shall support our feeder-sisters, we should strive to remain out of this conflict for as long as possible.
 
I'd prefer we say that we will not get involved in the conflict as we respect regional sovereignty!! I'd prefer that than a blanket statement of neutrality!! It leaves our options open should circumstances change!!
 
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