Xagill's Security Council Application

Marcus Antonius

Per Ardua Ad Astra
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TNP Nation
Ethnon
The Security Council has re-nominated @Rocketdog (Xagill) for a seat on the Security Council.

The vote for this application was 5 Ayes, 0 Nays, 0 abstentions, 0 not present.



Security Councils Statement of support in Xagill's re-admission to the SC.

For over half a decade, Rocketdog has served as a cornerstone of the Security Council, working tirelessly to safeguard the security of The North Pacific while consistently maintaining a formidable endorsement count.

Although a recent, inadvertent lapse in citizenship requires a formal re-nomination, his track record speaks for itself.

The Security Council stands in unanimous, unwavering support of his reinstatement to the team.




The Chair now presents this re-application to the Regional Assembly for its consideration.
 
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I'll ask the obvious question.

Why should we reaccept someone in our security apparatus who can't be bothered to show the bare minimum amount of activity required for citizenship?
 
Why should we reaccept someone in our security apparatus who can't be bothered to show the bare minimum amount of activity required for citizenship?
This is a valid concern, and one that I've personally had as well. What I would like to do, though, is take a look at the record. This is the first time that Bren has accidentally lost citizenship since entering the Security Council in 2021, a simple mistake that anyone can make when they simply forget to post. I do not believe that is a legitimate enough reason to deny someone a seat they've held since 2021 without issue, especially in this economy. From my experience, Bren has always made good contributions to the Security Council while on it, and I do not doubt his ability to continue doing so. As Marcus said, we unanimously support his reentrance to the Security Council.
 
This is a valid concern, and one that I've personally had as well. What I would like to do, though, is take a look at the record. This is the first time that Bren has accidentally lost citizenship since entering the Security Council in 2021, a simple mistake that anyone can make when they simply forget to post. I do not believe that is a legitimate enough reason to deny someone a seat they've held since 2021 without issue, especially in this economy. From my experience, Bren has always made good contributions to the Security Council while on it, and I do not doubt his ability to continue doing so. As Marcus said, we unanimously support his reentrance to the Security Council.

Ditto the same concern as @Blue Wolf II. It's troublesome that this ends up being "monthly proof of non-deadness" on the spam thread, and the IC character still went dead. I mean, spending a minute or two to spam a message on the spam threads in this forum once or week or whatever isn't too much to ask, I hope.
 
Ditto the same concern as @Blue Wolf II. It's troublesome that this ends up being "monthly proof of non-deadness" on the spam thread, and the IC character still went dead. I mean, spending a minute or two to spam a message on the spam threads in this forum once or week or whatever isn't too much to ask, I hope.
What does a Security Councillor have to say in the public areas of the forum while doing their job on the Security Council? He lost citizenship once during the summer slump; let's not make a mountain out of a molehill.
 
What does a Security Councillor have to say in the public areas of the forum while doing their job on the Security Council? He lost citizenship once during the summer slump; let's not make a mountain out of a molehill.
Unless I’m mistaken the law doesn’t require he post in a public area of the forum, merely the forum itself. Section 6.2, Subsection 16 of the Legal Code.

More importantly, the law doesn’t require a member of the Security Council to be a citizen. They only need to have a nation in the region and meet the endorsement and influence requirements. Section 5.1, Subsection 4 of the Legal Code.

Additionally, per Section 5.3, Subsection 16 of the same, failing to post on the forum (or even hold citizenship) isn’t grounds for removal.

Is there something I am missing?
 
Unless I’m mistaken the law doesn’t require he post in a public area of the forum, merely the forum itself. Section 6.2, Subsection 16 of the Legal Code.

More importantly, the law doesn’t require a member of the Security Council to be a citizen. They only need to have a nation in the region and meet the endorsement and influence requirements. Section 5.1, Subsection 4 of the Legal Code.

Additionally, per Section 5.3, Subsection 16 of the same, failing to post on the forum (or even hold citizenship) isn’t grounds for removal.

Is there something I am missing?
The constitution defines Security Councillors as Government Officials, who are required to be citizens - Article 6, Clause 2 of the Constitution.
 
I mean, Rocketdog isn't the first Security Councilllor to have this happen, and to an extent it's a little unfair that he's receiving pushback where others haven't. And Ruben's point that posting on the forum usually doesn't directly relate to the SC's job is well-taken. In an ideal world, would I want an SC whose members were all highly active and engaged with the community? Yes - but in the world we actually live in, it's valuable to have Rocketdog as an influence bank we know we can rely on to support TNP in case of an emergency. So while I would like to see him speak to the concerns raised in this thread, I will be voting aye on this nomination.
 
I offer congratulations to Rocketdog on finally receiving the affirmative nomination of the Security Council. I understand why the SC did this, as you’ve been serving in that body for years, and their numbers have been dwindling as of late. Comfed is also correct that having access to significant stores of influence is valuable and having fewer of them means we can’t be overly particular as to whether we’ll continue to utilize one of them.

I was your colleague on the SC for most of the period you’ve served, and I supported your previous applications. At the time you were a bit of a controversial choice due to perceived issues with the consistency of your activity and attendance. I was less concerned with this because the SC is a reactive body, so constant presence and looking busy is not as important, as long as you can be reached and will respond when contacted. And while I did agree that 6 months after your initial application, since the SC expected to see some positive movement and there was no change from the first, it did make sense for the second application to fail to receive the SC’s nomination, I also felt that the SC should avoid double standards, and rapidly admitting a new player with less regional footprint for high activity struck me as being just as much of a risk as bringing on someone who had done less over a longer period of time which still allowed trust to build. I also tend to favor being upfront with applicants and giving them the chance to withdraw if nomination looks to be off the table, and I said as much with your second application, as it looked likely it would narrowly fail (which, of course, it did). So you’ve always had my sympathy and I’ve made the effort to be as fair in evaluating your application as I could be. While I personally don’t appreciate applicants being forced through by RA vote when nomination is not achieved, given the collegial nature of the institution, I do recognize that’s a balance that should exist, and obviously it’s no longer an issue since you had a unanimous vote this time.

But those are process and value concerns for new applicants, without any consideration of what the person actually does on the job. How do we evaluate your service for all those years? Did you prove your critics right, or did you live up to the potential that the more lenient and optimistic among us believed you to possess? It’s hard for me to say, honestly. You’ve done an adequate job and you have certainly been a member of the Security Council. We don’t need members to be movers or shakers, which is fine because you aren’t one. This body can afford middle of the road members especially when it has members to spare. I think your votes were quite reflective of this, 4-4-1 on the first and 5-6 on the second. But the one thing I hung my hope on when I supported you back then, was that when push came to shove, you would be available, reachable, and show up when it counted. I can’t say I’ve always found that to be the case. As long as we have served together, you were one of the members most often expected not to respond or to show up in a timely manner on any discussion or vote. Your endotarting often left you in the middle of the pack, often slipping to the bottom before correcting it and slowly sliding back down. You were also often under risk for vacating office. The fact this happened does not surprise me, though it was always something you successfully avoided in the past. I haven’t been around the SC for a bit, so I don’t know your participation there prior to you losing citizenship, but a cursory examination of Discord shows a steep decline in activity over the last 3 months. Your endotarting slipped to the bottom of the list, and thanks to your name being included on the VD reports even after you lost SC status, we can see that the trend downward has continued. You weren’t posting every day or at great length prior to that, but you were fairly consistent and around, and as I said, you were always diligent about getting your endorsements back up when they would fall. The change in these metrics and your pattern is a recent shift from you. We also serve as moderators together and you have been present and participated in that space, so I know you’re around, and this application shows you know you lost the spot and are trying to get back in, so I would have expected some movement on the endorsement front.

The council used to place a high premium on experience and trust above all else. In recent years we emphasized activity and presence more than historically, and that worked against you in your previous applications. Now, it’s a non-issue. Having a colleague for about 6 years who has done the work and can be trusted, has the experience and mechanically possesses the influence in game that matters for this job, is a valuable thing. But the SC also has fewer members than it’s had in most of the time since I first served on it. The fact this vote is unanimous has to be balanced against the fact that it was 5 votes, the same number you received the last time you were an applicant. Slower response times and returns can be a liability in this environment, where activity is sluggish across the board. And to say I was a bit less than impressed with my former colleagues in responding to some of the events of the last few years, and your propensity to follow that herd, is understating things.

It won’t be the end of the world if you get back on the SC, and you’re a better choice than probably any hypothetical first time applicant among our citizenry. I think because of the reactive nature of the body and the fact we don’t have busy work there, it’s not actually a failing for you not to say or do much. I have never believed that to be the case. But if you’re pulling away more, if you’re less able to respond right away, if you’re not keeping up as well with endorsements when the number is generally going down across the board, these are problems. You’re not the kind to take action or be at the vanguard of reform or intervention within the SC. I don’t know if we should be expecting more of that from our SC members these days, or if I’m fretting over nothing. But simply going off of the recent trend and my own years of experience there, I do not think I’m on board this time around. I’m raising my expectations at a time when the state of the game and this region suggest they should be lowered. I’m choosing to care more than maybe I need to rather than roll with the apathy that has become so apparent. And considering you’ll probably be confirmed, I hope that you raise your own standards and challenge yourself to kick things into a higher gear. Challenge your colleagues to do the same.
 
I remember Security Councilors neglecting to maintain their citizenship or even forgetting to log in being a recurring concern back when I was on the SC 5 or 6 years ago. For whatever it's worth, I'm glad this perennial issue is getting more attention these days.

I think the fundamental question here is what we collectively believe the SC's role is supposed to be. Is it merely an influence bank to be mobilized in the event of a crisis provided its members are actually around, or is there a higher expectation, particularly in this day and age when every individual member accounts for a sixth of the body?
 
What does a Security Councillor have to say in the public areas of the forum while doing their job on the Security Council? He lost citizenship once during the summer slump; let's not make a mountain out of a molehill.

The loss of citizenship can be mitigated with a simple spam post (ok plus logging in to NS to avoid going CTE) - Xagill actually does that in the OOC games area. Setting an alarm that pings once every 3 weeks for a ping to post a number or a joke on the spam threads isn't that hard, I hope.
 
The loss of citizenship can be mitigated with a simple spam post (ok plus logging in to NS to avoid going CTE) - Xagill actually does that in the OOC games area. Setting an alarm that pings once every 3 weeks for a ping to post a number or a joke on the spam threads isn't that hard, I hope.
Ok. First of all, your snipes at Bren are off-putting. I don't think you should be doing that. Second of all, human error is a thing. Someone who doesn't post often on the forums might simply forget, which is what happened here. That is not a crime and should not be treated as such.
 
I've always found forum posting to maintain citizenship rather arbitrary, in my experience in other regions.

According to the Legal Code, citizenship can be maintained through a post on the forum or the RMB. I wonder if we should change this to include posting on the Discord server?
 
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Bren is an experienced and trusted member of our community, and I don't question his ability to serve on the Security Council. My concern has always been the consistency of his activity and responsiveness. As Pallaith said, the Security Council is a reactive body, and while its members don't need to be constantly active, they do need to be ready to respond when the region calls on them. I hope the Security Council's unanimous vote is a sign of their renewed commitment to that responsibility, because I believe every Security Councilor should be prepared to step up when it matters most. I hope that the applicant will show an increase in activity compared to what we have seen prior to their losing citizenship.
 
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I've always found forum posting to maintain citizenship rather arbitrary, in my experience in other regions.

According to the Legal Code, citizenship can be maintained through a post on the forum or the RMB. I wonder if we should change this to include posting on the Discord server?
That would...
1. Require applicants to optionally notify the Speaker's Office of what their Discord handle is, and the Speaker's Office would have to track it.
2. Require the Speaker's Office to manually search for posts made by someone not in compliance of the Forum and RMB checks.
3. Require that the post that clears the warning be in an area accessible to someone in the Speaker's Office.
It is not a technically feasible plan, especially because of point 3.
 
Most of my activity is on Discord, which may be less visible since it is in non-public channels, but alas, such messages don't count towards the citizenship requirements. Generally, I do check the forum every few days, and maintaining citizenship usually comes via the voting floor of this RA. That said I am always responsive to any pings, as seen through instantly reapplying for citizenship & the SC. Pending timezone differences, I should reply in a matter of hours, usually. I prefer not to post in the OOC/spam threads to maintain citizenship; instead, I will go through the RMB route and post more there. I acknowledge that my activity on the forum and the RMB has never been consistent. Still, there has been a baseline level of activity that hasn't caused my citizenship to lapse since 2016.

That said, it has provided a good wake-up call to change things up, as discussed above, regarding how the SC should adapt to the current NS environment. With the erosion of endorsement counts, in my opinion, the SC should lower expectations for new members, ensuring the SC is a jumping-off point for those seeking to be the VD or Delegate, rather than the traditional route of serving as the last office one holds after being the VD or Delegate. By building up the SCers, increasing the influence bank, and potentially bringing new ideas to shake things up.
 
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Ok. First of all, your snipes at Bren are off-putting. I don't think you should be doing that. Second of all, human error is a thing. Someone who doesn't post often on the forums might simply forget, which is what happened here. That is not a crime and should not be treated as such.

I am not sniping, I am openly asking a question. I am not saying it's a crime. I am saying that if you are senior enough to be Security Councillor, please do try. I also effectively asked the same question on Lord Dominator the last time we had a vote on LD's role after LD CTEd - (edit: actually @Pallaith did) - although in LD's case it wasn't the first (or I think even not the second time, or third). Getting the Speaker etc to schedule another election does actually incur someone else's time.

Edit: OK, let me rephase it, if that makes you feel better @Halsoni - how confident are you (to Xagill) that you would be able to maintain citizenship?
 
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That said, it has provided a good wake-up call to change things up, as discussed above, regarding how the SC should adapt to the current NS environment. With the erosion of endorsement counts, in my opinion, the SC should lower expectations for new members, ensuring the SC is a jumping-off point for those seeking to be the VD or Delegate, rather than the traditional route of serving as the last office one holds after being the VD or Delegate. By building up the SCers, increasing the influence bank, and potentially bringing new ideas to shake things up.
I support this proposal.
 
I am not sniping, I am openly asking a question. I am not saying it's a crime. I am saying that if you are senior enough to be Security Councillor, please do try. I also effectively asked the same question on Lord Dominator the last time we had a vote on LD's role after LD CTEd - (edit: actually @Pallaith did) - although in LD's case it wasn't the first (or I think even not the second time, or third). Getting the Speaker etc to schedule another election does actually incur someone else's time.

Edit: OK, let me rephase it, if that makes you feel better @Halsoni - how confident are you (to Xagill) that you would be able to maintain citizenship?
Yes you are and it’s not working. It’s weird and annoying because you fail to read the room every time you make a post. “If that makes you feel better” is also textbook baiting and it’s unfortunate that you feel obligated to resort to such tactics in the midst of an RA debate. We’re discussing someone’s application to a body they’ve served on diligently for half a decade and have been committed to this region for even longer. You should show them some respect because it’s not like your record is better in any way, shape or form.
 
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