[23:30]Blue Wolf II:
[23:31]Blue Wolf II:
Just so everyone is aware, it appears the Acting Delegate will retaliate against anyone who challenges his view point. I wish everyone here the best of luck
[00:43][SGT-ish] El Fiji Grande:
Wow, now that is fucked up.
[00:44][SGT-ish] El Fiji Grande:
@[DEL/CiC] Ruben care to explain?
[00:45][SGT-ish] El Fiji Grande:
I think you should consider reversing your decision.
[00:47][SGT-ish] El Fiji Grande:
Can't believe I'm speaking up on behalf of @Blue Wolf II , but what he's said here makes a whole lot of sense, and he clearly cares about the NPA. He's not being disruptive or doing anything to break the 'cohesion' of the NPA, but rather proposing organizational changes that might actually make a difference. If that kind of effort yields a demotion, then be prepared to accept my resignation from the NPA.
[00:59]Koopadꚙby:
Please everyone, let's calm down. A lot of opinions have been thrown around, and it pains me to see the NPA at its own throat like this.
@[SGT-ish] El Fiji Grande
@[DEL/CiC] Ruben care to explain?
[01:08][DEL/CiC] RubenBUSH:
I wrote something up, but when typing on my phone I can’t really get my thoughts on paper well. I’ll respond to you explain the problem more thoroughly in like thirty minutes when I’m home
[01:09]Blue Wolf II:
And I can provide plenty of screenshots of the DMs the Delegate and I had
[01:10][DEL/CiC] RubenBUSH:
I want to say that I did not want to make this decision but at the end of the day it was what had to be done
@Blue Wolf II
And I can provide plenty of screenshots of the DMs the Delegate and I had
[01:10][DEL/CiC] RubenBUSH:
I consider my DMs to be a private place, but if you wish to violate that, I guess I can’t stop you
[01:12]DemonosCARD:
It's certainly over the top. Given the circumstances, what we really need is innovation in our membership. And even more so new ideas and thoughts to further promote and strengthen TNP.
…
[01:43][DEL/CiC] RubenBUSH:
More than happy to leave this here
[01:44][DEL/CiC] RubenBUSH:
If BW wants to talk about it, he knows where he can reach me, if he unblocks me that is
[01:46]Blue Wolf II:
I think you're more unhappy about the block than anything else. You're already unblocked
…
[10:02]Blue Wolf II:
We just did a whole Warzone thing and we've racked up a total of zero promotions and one demotion over it. @[DEL/CiC] Ruben, as the MoD, are you planning on promoting or rewarding any of our newer troops for their participation?
[10:30][DEL/CiC] RubenBUSH:
Sure, I’ll have to work on that today. Considering you posted that in the private media section without any of the ranks of the folks involved included, I need to take a look at what their ranks are and see who gets a promotion. You posted that at almost 5 in the morning for me without any heads up so it’s a bit unfair to expect immediate promotions and try to spin the narrative into a zero promotions one demotion thing
[10:37]Blue Wolf II:
Sorry, you told us to do everything ourselves and take initiative if we wanted it done
[10:38]Blue Wolf II:
You're welcome
[11:02][DEL/CiC] RubenBUSH:
That’s a lie actually
[11:09]Blue Wolf II:
We're not allowed to take initiative?
[11:10][DEL/CiC] RubenBUSH:
Insane conclusion as usual
[11:10]Blue Wolf II:
And that's why I blocked you
[11:10][DEL/CiC] RubenBUSH:
You blocked me because I wasn’t interested in spoon feeding your delusions
[11:11]Blue Wolf II:
No, I blocked you because I was done being insulted and berated
[11:11][DEL/CiC] RubenBUSH:
Which is fine. That’s your right. But that doesn’t really make me the unreasonable party when all I’ve ever done is appease and appease
@Blue Wolf II
No, I blocked you because I was done being insulted and berated
[11:11][DEL/CiC] RubenBUSH:
I was saying that nothing was ever enough with you. That’s not an insult nor is it berating
[11:11]Blue Wolf II:
It's apparently not my right, because you demoted me over it and destroyed an entire section of the NPA in retaliation.
[11:14][DEL/CiC] RubenBUSH:
I demoted you because of continued insubordination, as shown again by this stunt you pulled with your Warzone op report (I’m glad it finally got put out after a week of waiting on the info), unnecessary escalation, disruptive behaviour within the NPA and non response when repeatedly asked for results. It wasn’t me who ignored my commander for a week when poked about reasonable information that should’ve been on hand
[11:14]Blue Wolf II:
"Insubordination" as defined where?
[11:15][DEL/CiC] RubenBUSH:
Not something I wanted to do, but alas, after months of dealing with your shenanigans, I grew tired of it. That’s all there’s to it. I hope this demotion will make you reflect on the way you went about “improving” the NPA
@Blue Wolf II
"Insubordination" as defined where?
[11:25][DEL/CiC] RubenBUSH:
You repeatedly refused to listen to me, always argued with any decision I made because it was never exactly what you wanted, have taken potshots at me despite all of the things I got done for you, continued to cause chaos when ordered not to and fundamentally displayed an intent to continue the way you’ve been going about doing things despite all the requests and implications to cease doing those things. I hold my officers to a high standard, the same I do for all government officials who represent the North in some capacity. You repeatedly failed to meet that standard and had the audacity to challenge the authority of your commander by demanding more power than an officer should have. I was willing to take risks for you put you spat in my face every time. You don’t understand that you don’t have a right to authority. No right to classified information. No right to a position. No right to access classified spaces. All your demands continued to challenge the government and the chain of command in the NPA. I’ve allowed it for far too long now. Even before this term, I was the main advocate for more freedom for the NPA and I continue to fulfil that vision, as proven by the bill currently in the RA. My reasonableness was met with a wall of potshots, demands, conspiracies and distrust. And despite all of that, I kept helping you out. I kept authorising things. I kept being an active support within the NPA and now its commanding officer. I tried the nice way time and time again. Well, now my back broke by you and I took the only course of action that I could think of that might help you see reason, but I guess I was mistaken. Nothing can make you reasonable or willing to compromise. It’s a sad reality and not the path I wanted to take, but ultimately felt I had to. I am sorry Wolf, you’re my friend, but I can’t keep giving ground when getting exclusively a delayed Warzone campaign in return
[11:27]Blue Wolf II:
You can make up rules, but don't be surprised when you get called out on them. "Insubordination" is not defined in the TNP, code, the Bill of Rights, or the Constitution, it's not even in the retired NPA Code of Conduct. It has no applicable legal or regulatory definition, and certainly not one I or anyone else can be expected to follow, given that it doesn't exist.
[11:27]Blue Wolf II:
If you truly removed me for "insubordination" then you removed me by a standard that isn't defined and has never existed.
[11:28][DEL/CiC] RubenBUSH:
It’s expected that an officer can follow orders and show decorum when interacting with their peers or superiors
[11:28][DEL/CiC] RubenBUSH:
But if all you’re interested in is being pedantic about what word was used, maybe you should consider reading what I actually said and see if that’s got anything to do with it
[11:29]Blue Wolf II:
What orders did I disobey? Is annoying you really a lack of decorum, especially given the rude things you were saying to me? The standards of decorum apparently don't apply to the Acting Delegate.
[11:32][DEL/CiC] RubenBUSH:
So you think that calling out your unreasonableness is ruder than making up conspiracies about how I was just using you and didn’t trust you?! Nothing I say can ever make you see reason. Now you’re going to start a witch hunt just like you did with Chipoli. If that’s what it is, fine. But don’t expect to be met with any more grace or kindness like I’ve done for the past few months despite all the accusations, potshots, conspiracies, distrust, insults and demands
[11:32]Blue Wolf II:
Even now you're constantly accusing me of "making up conspiracies"
[11:32][DEL/CiC] RubenBUSH:
Yeah because you were
[11:32][DEL/CiC] RubenBUSH:
And are
[11:32]Blue Wolf II:
What was I making up?
[11:33][DEL/CiC] RubenBUSH:
That I didn’t trust you
[11:33][DEL/CiC] RubenBUSH:
Or that I was using you
[11:33][DEL/CiC] RubenBUSH:
Or that our allies were making decisions for me
@[DEL/CiC] RubenBUSH
That I didn’t trust you
[11:33]Blue Wolf II:
You clearly don't. That's not a conspiracy, you've demonstrated that
[11:33][DEL/CiC] RubenBUSH:
You prove me correct yet again
[11:34]Blue Wolf II:
Is everything I say just a "conspiracy" to you?
[11:34][DEL/CiC] RubenBUSH:
No not everything. Just the things I just pointed out
…
[11:48][DEL/CiC] RubenBUSH:
…I value your ideas, but whenever I tweaked them or didn’t agree with them or asked someone to do it for me because I didn’t understand their vision, you just resorted to claims that I didn’t trust you. I don’t get pissed off when people come to me actually. Count all the times you’ve come to me and I’ve welcomed your ideas with open arms. Every time someone from the region has approached me about something I’ve talked to them in an appropriate way. If you think that I didn’t trust you simply because I didn’t bow to your every whim or appointed you to something as soon as you asked, then we’ll all be able to see it was never about improving the NPA. It was always about giving yourself more power. That’s what I saw and despite that I continued to engage because I wanted to believe that you were improving the NPA. I trusted you despite all of the signs that I shouldn’t. I tried so hard to be reasonable every time, but there are limits to a person and you reached it
[11:51]Blue Wolf II:
I've never asked for you to "bow to my every whim". I'm trying to improve the North Pacific Army, and I was trying to develop the Commandos before you decided to destroy the entire concept. You claim you were being reasonable with me, but still won't acknowledge that I legitimately did feel attacked and disrespected by you during our conversation. That doesn't seem to matter to you, and I think that's the root of our present conflict. You feel I disrespected you, and I feel you disrespected me. (edited)
[11:55][DEL/CiC] RubenBUSH:
You’ve had your chance with the commandos. For a year you’ve had that chance but you never did anything with it. I enabled everything but despite that all you could pull off was one Warzone campaign. You’ve disrespected my authority for months and now you’re disrespecting it even more by challenging it in the public square. You could’ve taken it with grace and reflect on what might’ve triggered that decision to be made, but instead of doing that, you decided to start dragging me through the mud in public and tried to rally support against me. You claimed that I was just using you and would drop you as soon as you stopped being useful, seems like that was your plan with me all along. I think that matters more than the one time I wasn’t walking on egg shells around you
[11:57]Blue Wolf II:
I never did anything with it except for the things I was doing with it. You can ignore and belittle all you want, it's not going to convince me that you made the correct choice in destroying an entire branch in a fit of anger.
[11:58]Blue Wolf II:
I am sorry, however, that you felt I was out to get you. That wasn't my intention.
[12:01][DEL/CiC] RubenBUSH:
Well it wasn’t done in a fit of anger. I had wilfully ignored the signs because I trusted you but that final interaction made me realise after all those months that I was being used. I’m not interested in that, so I’m going to tell you now that my decision is final and that there is no amount of bickering, arguing or spinning that you can do to make me reverse that. You say you weren’t out to get me. Is that why you posted my forum pm in this public channel and tried to ping everyone with it? Is that why you posted it in the executive server? Is that why, according to some, you’ve now started a court case against me? Is that why you’re trying to make it impossible for me to continue directly leading the NPA? Surely someone of your conspiratorial prowess must understand that some folks, not necessarily including me because I trust that you’re being genuine in that statement, might think that those are all connected as one big witch hunt? (edited)
[12:02]Blue Wolf II:
I'm not asking you to reverse your decision and I know you'd never do that. I will never be promoted again so long as you're in charge of the NPA.
[12:04]Blue Wolf II:
@[DEL/CiC] Ruben I was always going to start that Court case and it isn't against you. I was writing it up even before you demoted me.
@Blue Wolf II
I'm not asking you to reverse your decision and I know you'd never do that. I will never be promoted again so long as you're in charge of the NPA.
[12:04][DEL/CiC] RubenBUSH:
Not if you continue to challenge the authority of your superiors, especially in the public field, and seeming proud of it while doing it and trying to make yourself some kind of martyr. While merit is important, nobody would promote someone who’s in open rebellion against their leader
…
[12:15][DEL/CiC] RubenBUSH:
I will take your suggestions of rank reform and recruitment to heart and I’ll build on them in the month we’ve got left
[12:16]Blue Wolf II:
Sure, but you said I didn't do enough with the Commandos when I was actively doing operations and planning anyway forward. I'm willing to grant you leniency if you recognize that the struggle in the NPA has been hitting everyone, not just you.
[12:16][DEL/CiC] RubenBUSH:
Obviously it has
[12:16][DEL/CiC] RubenBUSH:
There have been issues since forever
[12:17]Blue Wolf II:
Issues that people are deeply frustrated with
[12:17][DEL/CiC] RubenBUSH:
Of course
[12:17]Blue Wolf II:
Things that we might get a little tense over
[12:17][DEL/CiC] RubenBUSH:
And I’ve been working on solutions but everything takes time
[12:17][DEL/CiC] RubenBUSH:
And thus I ask the NPA for patience
[12:18]Blue Wolf II:
Like the patience you showed me over the raid report?
[12:18][DEL/CiC] RubenBUSH:
I showed endless patience. I was repeatedly ignored and had to reach out to you in DMs to actually get something from you lol
[12:19]Blue Wolf II:
Endless patience is apparently 6 days and so many hours
[12:19][DEL/CiC] RubenBUSH:
You’re embellishing your responsiveness there and the initiative you took with that campaign
@Blue Wolf II
Endless patience is apparently 6 days and so many hours
[12:19][DEL/CiC] RubenBUSH:
No reasonable person waits a week for an op report
[12:19]Blue Wolf II:
When is the last time anyone did any ops reports?
[12:20][DEL/CiC] RubenBUSH:
We’ve done multiple with the MGC quite recently
[12:20]Blue Wolf II:
Did the Commandos deserve to be destroyed over it?
[12:20]Blue Wolf II:
Apparently so
[12:20][DEL/CiC] RubenBUSH:
Since they were created specifically for you and you aren’t an officer anymore, yes. We can do offensive operations without creating unnecessary filler
…
[12:31][DEL/CiC] RubenBUSH:
Anyway I’m not going to discuss my cabinet picks here, so if you wish to put someone forward I redirect you to my DMs
[12:31]Blue Wolf II:
Last time I did that, you demoted me
[DEL/CiC] RubenBUSH
Anyway I’m not going to discuss my cabinet picks here, so if you wish to put someone forward I redirect you to my DMs
[12:31][DEL/CiC] RubenBUSH:
Because I value your suggestions
@Blue Wolf II
Last time I did that, you demoted me
[12:32][DEL/CiC] RubenBUSH:
That’s a lie but alright
[12:32]Blue Wolf II:
Was I in your DMs talking about suggestions and did you not demote me after?
[12:32][DEL/CiC] RubenBUSH:
I think everyone here can see that you’re twisting words and bending reality, so I won’t be engaging in this debate anymore
[12:33]Blue Wolf II:
No, everyone here can see you're accusing me of conspiracies, making up "insubordination" claims, and proclaiming that I was leading an "Open Rebellion" These are your words, I'm quoting you directly.
[12:39]DemonosCARD:
Either way each of you is right, for it is impossible to confirm, for again many important details from personal conversation cannot be disseminated. I propose to finish this constructive conflict and orient ourselves on what we have now. For a new delegate - new results and goals. All the important details have already been dealt with during these days, and now what remains is the cyclical repetition and acknowledgment of rightness without the underlying facts. And two individuals who will stand on their beliefs, in their opinion laid down will not come to a resolution of the conflict situation.
