- Pronouns
- He/Him
Pallaith, Just a Minister — 09/08/2023 15:03
That was a good reminder of why doing forum stuff on mobile is terrible. Got one out but the rest will have to wait for when I get home
Pallaith, Just a Minister — 09/08/2023 21:03
@Court I have updated the rulings thread and have entries for the four published decisions. There’s no reason we can’t get that fifth one out tomorrow, it checked out grammatically speaking as far as I could tell, I touched up a couple areas and added a link to the defunct rulings decision.
If the last r4r doesn’t get published early tomorrow, but sometime after that, don’t sweat it. Our deliberation is finished, I see no reason why you can’t keep my name on the ruling. But probably best to get it out as quickly as possible just the same
@Attempted Socialism you’ll want to update the bulletin with an announcement about the changes to the rulings thread and the log of renamed decisions, didn’t feel right for me to post there as that is historically the CJ’s area
Attempted Socialism — 10/08/2023 00:59
@Pallaith, Just a Minister can I ask you to give a quick summary of your new index system in the update index thread?
Pallaith, Just a Minister — 10/08/2023 01:27
I gave it a go does that work?
Hope Elu is able to post his ruling for an August 10 date
Attempted Socialism — 10/08/2023 01:38
It works. I may take a stab at adding a bit about how to do tables, because those are quite easy to get wrong. But that's not time sensitive.
And bulletin will come today or tomorrow (Friday). As I have alluded to elsewhere I have had health concerns that have taken up some time, and today is one of those days.
Pallaith, Just a Minister — 10/08/2023 08:27
Well I understand you want to discuss further reforms but I’ll have to sit that one out for…about a month
My other job is requiring me during our current situation
With your agreement AS I hope @Eluvatar can publish that decision today
Eluvatar — 10/08/2023 09:20
Published
Pallaith, Just a Minister — 11/09/2023 19:26
Hey fellow justices
So I have updated the decision table with the last one that was missing on it
And I wanted to note that the Chief Justice needs to release some of the archived threads in the private justice archive, starting from saintpeter’s amendment of court procedures thread up to the last thread from 2022
Pallaith, Just a Minister — 11/09/2023 19:42
I’ll chime in on the ongoing discussions but that’s about all I’ll be able to do as I have agreed to serve in the new delegate’s cabinet, and will subsequently lose my spot on the Court
Eluvatar — 12/09/2023 11:10
@Attempted Socialism I updated https://forum.thenorthpacific.org/topic/9197479/ to add "Prosecutor" under GBM's experience, reflecting https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/thenorthpacific/cathyy-t5209.html
The North Pacific
Availability for Temporary Hearing Officer Status
Whenever a Justice is unavailable, the Court shall appoint a Temporary Hearing Officer (THO). This list contains people willing to serve, with relevant prior experience, and notes whether they are currently available to serve as THO. While the list is intended to give future Courts a shortlist...
Image
The North Pacific
The North Pacific-Cathyy
Charges Against Cathyy Lead Prosecutor – Hersfold, Co-Counsel - Darth Mathius, Great Bights Mum Cathyy (aka Pixiedance, Judessia) shall be referred
Image
Attempted Socialism — 12/09/2023 11:33
I only went back to 2020, so any history prior to that isn't noted. If there are other things that is relevant but prior to my cut-off feel free to add it.
And of course if there are people who could serve as THOs who aren't on the list yet.
Eluvatar — 20/09/2023 05:50
2005 is a bit earlier than 2020 yes
Added Prosecutor under my entry, too
Eluvatar — 11/10/2023 13:20
@Wymondham pinged you with a fairly urgent question in https://forum.thenorthpacific.org/topic/9197632/
Wymondham — 11/10/2023 13:20
Answered
Eluvatar — 11/10/2023 13:52
Pinged with my follow up
Eluvatar — 11/10/2023 14:14
www.nationstates.net
Also, if my work here in EoA is evidence in TNP's proceedings, does that mean the WFE and such is now evidence, and, further, that if it were changed to what it was before my stint as delegate, by say, the original delegate, that act could in fact constitute obstruction of justice/destruction of evidence under North Pacific law?
I guess Australia1 has a tough decision to make - remove the tag and potentially hinder the North Pacific's court in collecting evidence to charge me with something, or leave it up as testament to Malice. Frankly, either one sounds funny to me.
Should we respond to this?
Attempted Socialism — 11/10/2023 14:23
We should probably just advise Kaschovia to save the WFE in case it's evidence, and pass it along to the appointed prosecutor?
It seems like a petty thing to answer directly.
Eluvatar — 11/10/2023 14:32
If we don't, Australia1 might think TNP might get upset with him
that is my one concern
Attempted Socialism — 11/10/2023 14:48
Ah. Hmm. Yeah. What kind of answer do you suggest?
Eluvatar — 11/10/2023 15:02
Out of abundance of caution I've gotten the wayback machine to capture a snapshot of the WFE
web.archive.org
so we can simply post to say that there is no need for Australia1 to be concerned, if TNP needs this WFE it will have it
And now I must go AFK
Eluvatar — 11/10/2023 16:37
Shall I mask Simone as a Temporary Hearing Officer and give you @Attempted Socialism the no-see-special-court-chambers privileges?
anticipating an R4R from Dreadton?
Wymondham — 11/10/2023 20:05
@Eluvatar Quick procedural question
Am I correct in my understanding that we need to await an answer from LD and/or Lore as to SHO status before we can formally accept the indictment and open the trial?
Eluvatar — 11/10/2023 20:06
I believe the procedures require an SHO to start the trial yes
Let's double check that
When an indictment is accepted, the Chief Justice will promptly appoint a Moderating Justice and a Standby Hearing Officer.
It suggests the appointment of Moderating Justice is simultaneous with the appointment of SHO
Wymondham — 11/10/2023 20:07
That was my reading of them I just wanted a second pair of eyes to make sure I dont make a complete dogs breakfast at the very beginning of my 1st trial as a moderating justice in TNP :p
Eluvatar — 11/10/2023 20:07
LD is pretty active so we shouldn't have to wait long
Attempted Socialism — 11/10/2023 23:23
LD is willing to serve.
Attempted Socialism — 11/10/2023 23:27
Let's wait with the appointment until the R4R is made. The two of you will have to decide if you even want to take the case, for instance.
On another note, I did post the drafts for changes to the court rules and procedures. So please do take a look.
Wymondham — 11/10/2023 23:37
Just an fyi that I'm going to include a brief statement of my reasons for responding to the request for ejection/ban as I did in the opening trial post, given its the first tiem in a while we've had one of these
Wymondham — 11/10/2023 23:54
@Eluvatar @Attempted Socialism Somewhat urgent forum ping for you https://forum.thenorthpacific.org/topic/9197632/post-10614157
Eluvatar — 12/10/2023 12:55
@Attempted Socialism I'm realizing my reply to https://forum.thenorthpacific.org/topic/9197638/ doesn't make sense unless you post first
The North Pacific
[R4R] On the Improper Acceptance of Evidence in Criminal Trials
1. What law, government policy, or action (taken by a government official) do you request that the Court review?
I am requesting review of the court's ruling on the motion to dismiss and the motion for mistrial in the Criminal Case TNP v Kekiston et al. The ruling can be found here ...
Image
Wymondham — 12/10/2023 14:05
Out of curiosity what is your reply?
Eluvatar — 12/10/2023 14:07
No
or, in full
I disagree with your assumption that speaking about a matter makes one have "a vested interest" or be "otherwise unable to rule in a fair and unbiased manner."
I will ask @Wymondham and @Simone (our Standby Hearing Officer) to vote on whether I should be recused or not, unless @Wymondham chooses to recuse himself.
Wymondham — 12/10/2023 14:10
Fully agree
Eluvatar — 12/10/2023 14:10
But it doesn't make sense to post before @Attempted Socialism resolves whether he's recusing himself
Attempted Socialism — 12/10/2023 14:11
Oh I'll recuse myself. But I can't see how the two of you should recuse yourselves.
Wymondham — 12/10/2023 14:12
Neither can I
Attempted Socialism — 12/10/2023 14:13
I don't think you should recuse yourselves. Obviously I have a vested interest, but how on Earth do the two of you?
Wymondham — 12/10/2023 14:14
This is the exact sort of silliness I was quite vocal about confronting in my campaign, so it shouldn't come as a shock to Dreadton that my attitude towards this entire manouver is 'shove it'
Eluvatar — 12/10/2023 14:14
Replied
@Attempted Socialism will you ask Simone to oath?
Attempted Socialism — 12/10/2023 14:15
I'm recused, so it's up to the two of you what to do. But if you really want to tell him to shove it, you can reject the R4R.
And Elu you'll do your hidden Chambers role thing again? So I can't see?
Eluvatar — 12/10/2023 14:16
I'll start with that as it doesn't need to wait for Simone
OK @Wymondham you want to make a group PM with Simone asking him to oath as Temporary Hearing Officer?
Wymondham — 12/10/2023 14:17
Will do
Sent them an FR
So will need to wait on that being accepted
Attempted Socialism — 12/10/2023 14:17
I can post it, but I would prefer to use the new rule and procedure we made after last time so that you do the appointing.
That way we avoid another R4R about whether I am unduly involved in literally only posting the paperwork without any inputs to your decision.
Eluvatar — 12/10/2023 14:18
I mean they were functionally appointed when a Standby Hearing Officer was appointed
They aren't being selected, just sworn in
Attempted Socialism — 12/10/2023 14:18
In a different case though?
Eluvatar — 12/10/2023 14:18
This R4R is for that case
or am I confusing SHOs?
https://forum.thenorthpacific.org/topic/9197453/ says Simone
The North Pacific
The North Pacific v. KEKISTON, GrandEngland
In the matter of The North Pacific v. KEKISTON, GrandEngland, the indictment is accepted by the Court. The Court is now in session.
@Attempted Socialism will serve as Moderating Justice, @Simone will serve as Standby Hearing Officer. @Lord Dominator serves as Temporary Hearing Officer in place...
Image
Probably needs an update to say Wymondham instead of Lord Dominator
Attempted Socialism — 12/10/2023 14:19
Well the SHO as I understand it is only for the trial, not necessarily any R4R.
Eluvatar — 12/10/2023 14:20
The Standby Hearing Officer will be available to serve as a Hearing Officer should any matter requiring the recusal of the Moderating Justice arise during the trial.
"any matter"
Attempted Socialism — 12/10/2023 14:20
Hmm. Alright. I'll post it.
Eluvatar — 12/10/2023 14:20
R4Rs are the way we do appeals of Moderating Justice rulings, are they not?
Attempted Socialism — 12/10/2023 14:23
Yeah, you're right. I just hadn't quite made the connection.
Eluvatar — 12/10/2023 14:24
@Attempted Socialism can you see https://forum.thenorthpacific.org/topic/9197639/ ?
Attempted Socialism — 12/10/2023 14:24
Oops! We ran into some problems.
You do not have permission to view this page or perform this action.
Eluvatar — 12/10/2023 14:24
good, good
Eluvatar — 12/10/2023 14:58
Group PM = on the forum
Wymondham — 12/10/2023 14:59
oH
Eluvatar — 12/10/2023 15:00
PMed
Wymondham — 12/10/2023 15:00
Oh
I literally just did it as well lol
Eluvatar — 12/10/2023 15:00
LOL
Wymondham — 12/10/2023 15:08
Here's a question, do we hold the vote Dreadton has requested in public, or in private chambers?
Attempted Socialism — 12/10/2023 15:11
In the chambers. Court documents get unsealed after a year, if he wants to check up on it at that point.
Eluvatar — 12/10/2023 15:17
We'll announce the vote publicly regardless
so it doesn't matter if we hold it in private
imo
That was a good reminder of why doing forum stuff on mobile is terrible. Got one out but the rest will have to wait for when I get home
Pallaith, Just a Minister — 09/08/2023 21:03
@Court I have updated the rulings thread and have entries for the four published decisions. There’s no reason we can’t get that fifth one out tomorrow, it checked out grammatically speaking as far as I could tell, I touched up a couple areas and added a link to the defunct rulings decision.
If the last r4r doesn’t get published early tomorrow, but sometime after that, don’t sweat it. Our deliberation is finished, I see no reason why you can’t keep my name on the ruling. But probably best to get it out as quickly as possible just the same
@Attempted Socialism you’ll want to update the bulletin with an announcement about the changes to the rulings thread and the log of renamed decisions, didn’t feel right for me to post there as that is historically the CJ’s area
Attempted Socialism — 10/08/2023 00:59
@Pallaith, Just a Minister can I ask you to give a quick summary of your new index system in the update index thread?
Pallaith, Just a Minister — 10/08/2023 01:27
I gave it a go does that work?
Hope Elu is able to post his ruling for an August 10 date
Attempted Socialism — 10/08/2023 01:38
It works. I may take a stab at adding a bit about how to do tables, because those are quite easy to get wrong. But that's not time sensitive.
And bulletin will come today or tomorrow (Friday). As I have alluded to elsewhere I have had health concerns that have taken up some time, and today is one of those days.
Pallaith, Just a Minister — 10/08/2023 08:27
Well I understand you want to discuss further reforms but I’ll have to sit that one out for…about a month
My other job is requiring me during our current situation
With your agreement AS I hope @Eluvatar can publish that decision today
Eluvatar — 10/08/2023 09:20
Published
Pallaith, Just a Minister — 11/09/2023 19:26
Hey fellow justices
So I have updated the decision table with the last one that was missing on it
And I wanted to note that the Chief Justice needs to release some of the archived threads in the private justice archive, starting from saintpeter’s amendment of court procedures thread up to the last thread from 2022
Pallaith, Just a Minister — 11/09/2023 19:42
I’ll chime in on the ongoing discussions but that’s about all I’ll be able to do as I have agreed to serve in the new delegate’s cabinet, and will subsequently lose my spot on the Court
Eluvatar — 12/09/2023 11:10
@Attempted Socialism I updated https://forum.thenorthpacific.org/topic/9197479/ to add "Prosecutor" under GBM's experience, reflecting https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/thenorthpacific/cathyy-t5209.html
The North Pacific
Availability for Temporary Hearing Officer Status
Whenever a Justice is unavailable, the Court shall appoint a Temporary Hearing Officer (THO). This list contains people willing to serve, with relevant prior experience, and notes whether they are currently available to serve as THO. While the list is intended to give future Courts a shortlist...
Image
The North Pacific
The North Pacific-Cathyy
Charges Against Cathyy Lead Prosecutor – Hersfold, Co-Counsel - Darth Mathius, Great Bights Mum Cathyy (aka Pixiedance, Judessia) shall be referred
Image
Attempted Socialism — 12/09/2023 11:33
I only went back to 2020, so any history prior to that isn't noted. If there are other things that is relevant but prior to my cut-off feel free to add it.
And of course if there are people who could serve as THOs who aren't on the list yet.
Eluvatar — 20/09/2023 05:50
2005 is a bit earlier than 2020 yes
Added Prosecutor under my entry, too
Eluvatar — 11/10/2023 13:20
@Wymondham pinged you with a fairly urgent question in https://forum.thenorthpacific.org/topic/9197632/
Wymondham — 11/10/2023 13:20
Answered
Eluvatar — 11/10/2023 13:52
Pinged with my follow up
Eluvatar — 11/10/2023 14:14
NationStates | RMB Post
www.nationstates.net
I guess Australia1 has a tough decision to make - remove the tag and potentially hinder the North Pacific's court in collecting evidence to charge me with something, or leave it up as testament to Malice. Frankly, either one sounds funny to me.
Should we respond to this?
Attempted Socialism — 11/10/2023 14:23
We should probably just advise Kaschovia to save the WFE in case it's evidence, and pass it along to the appointed prosecutor?
It seems like a petty thing to answer directly.
Eluvatar — 11/10/2023 14:32
If we don't, Australia1 might think TNP might get upset with him
that is my one concern
Attempted Socialism — 11/10/2023 14:48
Ah. Hmm. Yeah. What kind of answer do you suggest?
Eluvatar — 11/10/2023 15:02
Out of abundance of caution I've gotten the wayback machine to capture a snapshot of the WFE
Wayback Machine
And now I must go AFK
Eluvatar — 11/10/2023 16:37
Shall I mask Simone as a Temporary Hearing Officer and give you @Attempted Socialism the no-see-special-court-chambers privileges?
anticipating an R4R from Dreadton?
Wymondham — 11/10/2023 20:05
@Eluvatar Quick procedural question
Am I correct in my understanding that we need to await an answer from LD and/or Lore as to SHO status before we can formally accept the indictment and open the trial?
Eluvatar — 11/10/2023 20:06
I believe the procedures require an SHO to start the trial yes
Let's double check that
When an indictment is accepted, the Chief Justice will promptly appoint a Moderating Justice and a Standby Hearing Officer.
It suggests the appointment of Moderating Justice is simultaneous with the appointment of SHO
Wymondham — 11/10/2023 20:07
That was my reading of them I just wanted a second pair of eyes to make sure I dont make a complete dogs breakfast at the very beginning of my 1st trial as a moderating justice in TNP :p
Eluvatar — 11/10/2023 20:07
LD is pretty active so we shouldn't have to wait long
Attempted Socialism — 11/10/2023 23:23
LD is willing to serve.
Attempted Socialism — 11/10/2023 23:27
Let's wait with the appointment until the R4R is made. The two of you will have to decide if you even want to take the case, for instance.
On another note, I did post the drafts for changes to the court rules and procedures. So please do take a look.
Wymondham — 11/10/2023 23:37
Just an fyi that I'm going to include a brief statement of my reasons for responding to the request for ejection/ban as I did in the opening trial post, given its the first tiem in a while we've had one of these
Wymondham — 11/10/2023 23:54
@Eluvatar @Attempted Socialism Somewhat urgent forum ping for you https://forum.thenorthpacific.org/topic/9197632/post-10614157
Eluvatar — 12/10/2023 12:55
@Attempted Socialism I'm realizing my reply to https://forum.thenorthpacific.org/topic/9197638/ doesn't make sense unless you post first
The North Pacific
[R4R] On the Improper Acceptance of Evidence in Criminal Trials
1. What law, government policy, or action (taken by a government official) do you request that the Court review?
I am requesting review of the court's ruling on the motion to dismiss and the motion for mistrial in the Criminal Case TNP v Kekiston et al. The ruling can be found here ...
Image
Wymondham — 12/10/2023 14:05
Out of curiosity what is your reply?
Eluvatar — 12/10/2023 14:07
No
or, in full
I disagree with your assumption that speaking about a matter makes one have "a vested interest" or be "otherwise unable to rule in a fair and unbiased manner."
I will ask @Wymondham and @Simone (our Standby Hearing Officer) to vote on whether I should be recused or not, unless @Wymondham chooses to recuse himself.
Wymondham — 12/10/2023 14:10
Fully agree
Eluvatar — 12/10/2023 14:10
But it doesn't make sense to post before @Attempted Socialism resolves whether he's recusing himself
Attempted Socialism — 12/10/2023 14:11
Oh I'll recuse myself. But I can't see how the two of you should recuse yourselves.
Wymondham — 12/10/2023 14:12
Neither can I
Attempted Socialism — 12/10/2023 14:13
I don't think you should recuse yourselves. Obviously I have a vested interest, but how on Earth do the two of you?
Wymondham — 12/10/2023 14:14
This is the exact sort of silliness I was quite vocal about confronting in my campaign, so it shouldn't come as a shock to Dreadton that my attitude towards this entire manouver is 'shove it'
Eluvatar — 12/10/2023 14:14
Replied
@Attempted Socialism will you ask Simone to oath?
Attempted Socialism — 12/10/2023 14:15
I'm recused, so it's up to the two of you what to do. But if you really want to tell him to shove it, you can reject the R4R.
And Elu you'll do your hidden Chambers role thing again? So I can't see?
Eluvatar — 12/10/2023 14:16
I'll start with that as it doesn't need to wait for Simone
OK @Wymondham you want to make a group PM with Simone asking him to oath as Temporary Hearing Officer?
Wymondham — 12/10/2023 14:17
Will do
Sent them an FR
So will need to wait on that being accepted
Attempted Socialism — 12/10/2023 14:17
I can post it, but I would prefer to use the new rule and procedure we made after last time so that you do the appointing.
That way we avoid another R4R about whether I am unduly involved in literally only posting the paperwork without any inputs to your decision.
Eluvatar — 12/10/2023 14:18
I mean they were functionally appointed when a Standby Hearing Officer was appointed
They aren't being selected, just sworn in
Attempted Socialism — 12/10/2023 14:18
In a different case though?
Eluvatar — 12/10/2023 14:18
This R4R is for that case
or am I confusing SHOs?
https://forum.thenorthpacific.org/topic/9197453/ says Simone
The North Pacific
The North Pacific v. KEKISTON, GrandEngland
In the matter of The North Pacific v. KEKISTON, GrandEngland, the indictment is accepted by the Court. The Court is now in session.
@Attempted Socialism will serve as Moderating Justice, @Simone will serve as Standby Hearing Officer. @Lord Dominator serves as Temporary Hearing Officer in place...
Image
Probably needs an update to say Wymondham instead of Lord Dominator
Attempted Socialism — 12/10/2023 14:19
Well the SHO as I understand it is only for the trial, not necessarily any R4R.
Eluvatar — 12/10/2023 14:20
The Standby Hearing Officer will be available to serve as a Hearing Officer should any matter requiring the recusal of the Moderating Justice arise during the trial.
"any matter"
Attempted Socialism — 12/10/2023 14:20
Hmm. Alright. I'll post it.
Eluvatar — 12/10/2023 14:20
R4Rs are the way we do appeals of Moderating Justice rulings, are they not?
Attempted Socialism — 12/10/2023 14:23
Yeah, you're right. I just hadn't quite made the connection.
Eluvatar — 12/10/2023 14:24
@Attempted Socialism can you see https://forum.thenorthpacific.org/topic/9197639/ ?
Attempted Socialism — 12/10/2023 14:24
Oops! We ran into some problems.
You do not have permission to view this page or perform this action.
Eluvatar — 12/10/2023 14:24
good, good
Eluvatar — 12/10/2023 14:58
Group PM = on the forum
Wymondham — 12/10/2023 14:59
oH
Eluvatar — 12/10/2023 15:00
PMed
Wymondham — 12/10/2023 15:00
Oh
I literally just did it as well lol
Eluvatar — 12/10/2023 15:00
LOL
Wymondham — 12/10/2023 15:08
Here's a question, do we hold the vote Dreadton has requested in public, or in private chambers?
Attempted Socialism — 12/10/2023 15:11
In the chambers. Court documents get unsealed after a year, if he wants to check up on it at that point.
Eluvatar — 12/10/2023 15:17
We'll announce the vote publicly regardless
so it doesn't matter if we hold it in private
imo