Vivanco For Justice VII: Iustitia Quid Est?

[Vivanco]

What is justice?

For romans, it was “the value that most legitimised their right to rule other peoples” [1]. For Plato, it was a “harmonious relationship between the warring parts of the person or city” [2].

Some view justice as something natural, something that is natural to the human form, as a mutual agreement between society and the citizenship, and that it has a simple subordinate value, being our feelings the direct source of justice.

Others may view it as something realist. Justice is what the law says, and there is not more to see within, only if it’s in stone it’s acted upon.

And others think of it as something social, where fairness is the strictest pillar for justice to exist. And who is right? Who is wrong? None can tell.

There have been authors to ask the question of why we surround ourselves in laws, amongst philosophy and theories, such as Hans Kelsen in his Pure Theory of Law, and even this life’s work is incomplete and not enough for us to grasp a proper and complex understanding of what law is, and how to properly execute it.

What we know, for certain, is that only with experience one can properly learn. When I first joined NationStates I was barely 17 and I had no idea on what would happen to me in life. I was still in highschool, in the Humanities branch, and for a moment, I thought I would dedicate my life to either psychology or Media.

And that’s when I didn’t get grades high enough to get enrolled in Psychology, and a double career in Law and Political Sciences would fit me nicely. That was when Law entered my life, and since that day, I have been gravely linked to it. My original nation has been gone for over 4 years now, and since I came to TNP with this nation of mine, I was already a student of law.

I have been evolving and learning all the time I’ve been here, both in NS structure of power and status-quo, law philosophy across the years among the different rulings, and I have been even Chief Justice. I have made mistakes as any other human has done. And still, even with all the hardships, with all my own demons that I’ve had to endure, with my own mentality and mind putting myself at unease, I have kept pushing forward to where I am now.

I am now a Graduate of Law, and I’m studying the state exams for Inspector of Labour, and I feel a strong sense of vinculation with this region. I owe to this region a lot of my interest, I’ve invested many nights studying, reading, and seeing the law of this game as if it was real law, and it’s the most fun I’ve ever had online.



What is justice? What we seek as a society, I believe. And with enough experience, even if we can’t properly define it, we can take our own approaches.

---

[1] Verboven, K., & Hekster, O. (2019). Introduction. In K. Verboven & O. Hekster (Eds.), The Impact of Justice on the Roman Empire: Proceedings of the Thirteenth Workshop of the International Network Impact of Empire (Gent, June 21-24, 2017) (Vol. 34, pp. 1–16). Brill. http://www.jstor.org/stable/10.1163/j.ctvrxk2q4.4

[2] Plato. (1943). Plato's The Republic. New York: Books, Inc.,

 

[Zyvetskistaahn]

Would you intend to seek selection as the Bar Commissioner chosen from the Justices?

If so: what do you think would be an appropriate way for the Bar Commission to establish the acceptability and competence of counsel; what provision would you make for managing the membership of the bar, such as around the removal of counsel, beyond the prohibition on those subject to criminal sentence; and, how do you think you will go about choosing a Court Examiner?

 

[Kaschovia]

Hi Vivanco, it's good to see that you're running for a role in an area of the game that you are passionately about already, which does bode well!

How have your own personal views on law and philosophy shaped your view of our legal structure and more specifically your personal approach to the role of Justice?

 

[Pallaith]

Vivanco, I have a few questions for you.

How do you feel about universal standing? We have it back now with the new law, in the hands of the court examiner. Do you think we needed universal standing to come back for r4rs? Would that have changed any of the previous declinations we’ve seen since the AGORA Act passed? Or would those still not have happened?

Have we trivialized r4rs with some of the recent ones, or are those examples of the kind of questions we should be asking more often?

Perhaps from you above most of the others, I am really curious to hear your ideal form of bar rules, since this was something you also championed long before the law that was finally signed last month.

Do you feel you would have approached any of the cases that have taken place since you were last on the Court any differently than how they turned out?

 

[Vivanco]

Would you intend to seek selection as the Bar Commissioner chosen from the Justices?

Intend, as per look to be one actively, I would say no. I would be absolutely honored to be part of it, but I wouldn't look for it in an active manner.

what do you think would be an appropriate way for the Bar Commission to establish the acceptability and competence of counsel; what provision would you make for managing the membership of the bar, such as around the removal of counsel, beyond the prohibition on those subject to criminal sentence; and, how do you think you will go about choosing a Court Examiner?

In my attempt to create a Bar I tried to implement an activity system that didn't get much appraisal nor approval from how convoluted it could be in the end, so I would say we could have some automaticed removals, just as Lord Dominator has said in their own answer to your question.

As for this day, there's no people to choose from as Court Examiner, so I couldn't possibly say.

 

[Vivanco]

How have your own personal views on law and philosophy shaped your view of our legal structure and more specifically your personal approach to the role of Justice?

I will be clear; I have an unconditional love for Continental Law. The sheer facility and accesibility of a codified structure is for myself one of the most brilliant advances within law that we've inherited from the roman times, from the Corpus Iuris Civilis. However, here we have not a simple Civil Law, and not even an Anglo Saxon system where there's a prevalescence of the jurisdiction. We have a mixed system. Some have compared it to the past to the one existing currently in Canada.

This mixed stablishment has given me the respect of the anglosaxon system of case law, and the importance of the role of the justice of not only considering the interpretation of the law, but of those who came before.
I used to see Justice as the final say, the end of the road of any decision, but lately I've differed from such nature. Times change, and so do we, and so does the interpretations of the law, and we can change such too.

 

[Vivanco]

How do you feel about universal standing?

I feel in favor of it with a regulated office. I am aware that some sectors of the region may find themselves against it, aas a waste of the Court's time, but if we look at every single thing as a waste, little by little we're going to end up with nothing in our hands. So, to those people I say to keep calm and let people be.

Do you think we needed universal standing to come back for r4rs? Would that have changed any of the previous declinations we’ve seen since the AGORA Act passed? Or would those still not have happened?

I've haad myself some R4Rs rejected because of the lack of standing. This, that would have possibly changed some declinations. Perhaps not entirely, but it is a great factor as to why some people have not submitted R4Rs, out of a sense of lack of standing.

Have we trivialized r4rs with some of the recent ones, or are those examples of the kind of questions we should be asking more often?

I am of the rare kind that stands with the thought that those are the questions we should be asking more often. For as simple as the law is for some people, some others may need further explanation, or a ruling on clarity on a obscure ruling that can lead to disagreements in the future that can be settled easily with a court decision.

Perhaps from you above most of the others, I am really curious to hear your ideal form of bar rules, since this was something you also championed long before the law that was finally signed last month.

I would like to also note the fact that it's been years since the idea of a Bar appeared from the AGORA Act, and only now we've finally reached somewhere, somewhat.
I will list a series of fundamentals that must exist in such rules in my opinion.

• Confidentiality Lawyer-Client must always be respected.
• A Lawyer will not be able to be summoned as witness to ensure the protection of the Client and integrity of the Lawyer
• A list of misconducts that can end in a finish of their relationship with the bar, such as
  • Breaking of the Rules of the Bar
  • Committing a criminal act
  • Act against the administration of the justice.
  • Knowingly assist a Justice in a violation of law.

Do you feel you would have approached any of the cases that have taken place since you were last on the Court any differently than how they turned out?

All I have to say to that is Lex dura, sed lex. (The law is harsh, but it's the law).

 

[Kaschovia]

I will be clear; I have an unconditional love for Continental Law. The sheer facility and accesibility of a codified structure is for myself one of the most brilliant advances within law that we've inherited from the roman times, from the Corpus Iuris Civilis. However, here we have not a simple Civil Law, and not even an Anglo Saxon system where there's a prevalescence of the jurisdiction. We have a mixed system. Some have compared it to the past to the one existing currently in Canada.

This mixed stablishment has given me the respect of the anglosaxon system of case law, and the importance of the role of the justice of not only considering the interpretation of the law, but of those who came before.
I used to see Justice as the final say, the end of the road of any decision, but lately I've differed from such nature. Times change, and so do we, and so does the interpretations of the law, and we can change such too.

Thank you for your answer.

Now I'd like to ask more about the future of the Court and the accessibility of information and resources. For many people, approaching and learning about the laws of the region can be a daunting and treacherous endeavour given the breadth of legal documents and content available to everyday citizens, especially when there are experienced ex-Justices and those generally well-informed and interested in law who will be confident enough to contribute to discussions and push changes through into law. From that, do you believe it should be the responsibility of the Court to consider more proactive approaches to the education of the citizenry on regional law and the processes of justice, especially as the new bar act comes into effect and citizens from a wider pool of potential representatives will need to prove sufficient legal knowledge to represent those charged with crimes, or should those interested enough in law take it upon themselves to learn from the resources currently available and by reading through previous cases and rulings to meet the requirements of the bar? In essence, do you believe the Court should be proactive in educating the citizenry about regional law in response to changes in legal representation?

 

[Vivanco]

Now I'd like to ask more about the future of the Court and the accessibility of information and resources. For many people, approaching and learning about the laws of the region can be a daunting and treacherous endeavour given the breadth of legal documents and content available to everyday citizens, especially when there are experienced ex-Justices and those generally well-informed and interested in law who will be confident enough to contribute to discussions and push changes through into law. From that, do you believe it should be the responsibility of the Court to consider more proactive approaches to the education of the citizenry on regional law and the processes of justice, especially as the new bar act comes into effect and citizens from a wider pool of potential representatives will need to prove sufficient legal knowledge to represent those charged with crimes, or should those interested enough in law take it upon themselves to learn from the resources currently available and by reading through previous cases and rulings to meet the requirements of the bar? In essence, do you believe the Court should be proactive in educating the citizenry about regional law in response to changes in legal representation?

What you seem to be suggesting is that the Court take a more didactic stance within the populace of the region and establish themselves some form of Law School for those interested. I fear that if that was attempted, it would meet the exact same fate that TNPU met. However, if the Court finds a way to make it stay active and have a consistent influx of interested people in knowing and learning about law it would be a good idea.

However, it should be noted that some people, even with its vast knowledge of law, are not able to properly teach law.

If it was in my hand, the Court should encourage the legal activity of the region, and yes, I believe they should educate the region about the law.

 

[Kaschovia]

What you seem to be suggesting is that the Court take a more didactic stance within the populace of the region and establish themselves some form of Law School for those interested. I fear that if that was attempted, it would meet the exact same fate that TNPU met. However, if the Court finds a way to make it stay active and have a consistent influx of interested people in knowing and learning about law it would be a good idea.

However, it should be noted that some people, even with its vast knowledge of law, are not able to properly teach law.

If it was in my hand, the Court should encourage the legal activity of the region, and yes, I believe they should educate the region about the law.

Thank you for your answer! I am very much in support of the Court providing the citizenry with the resources and initiatives they need to learn and practice even the basics of law in our region, given that the Court is such a powerful and important branch of the government and one that ultimately determines the way the region operates for all citizens. I'm not suggesting a Law School, of sorts, would be the only way to approach it, but I do believe that efforts should be made to educate the citizenry or perhaps even run programs to find interested citizens and enrol them in some form of education. Whether this is in the downtime the Justices have between legal work, or a constantly evolving initiative, I do believe it is paramount that the Court welcomes and supports interested citizens, for example, in meeting the requirements of the new bar act.

 

[Simone]

I think you are well qualified. Best of luck.