Hiya.
The Ministry of Communications released the latest edition of The Northern Lights and it's time to get distributing! Some regions may prefer either text or image based, so you can choose which to use (or use both!). Keep in mind that the text version might be too large for a forum so multiple posts in the same thread may be necessary
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The Ministry of Communications released the latest edition of The Northern Lights and it's time to get distributing! Some regions may prefer either text or image based, so you can choose which to use (or use both!). Keep in mind that the text version might be too large for a forum so multiple posts in the same thread may be necessary
Be sure to check your assigned region on the Executive Staff Mastersheet.
Reminder: It is not enough to only post the links onto a region’s Discord. Please be sure to post them onto the forums of your embassy posting(s) as well. Exceptions to this are for regions that only have a Discord or RMB.
Dispatch link: Click
Xenforo
Code:
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We are aware that not everyone is equally appreciative of image-based NS newspapers. As such, we've included the standard format mostly plain-text version of the newspaper in the spoiler below. We hope you enjoy reading this month's issue! If you have any questions, comments, concerns, or suggestions, feel free to contact the current TNP Minister of Communications [nation]PotatoFarmers[/nation].[/center]
[spoiler=Standard Version]
[IMG]https://forum.thenorthpacific.org/images/news_media/tnl_logo.png[/IMG]
[SIZE=7]Editor’s Note[/SIZE][/CENTER]
[RIGHT][I]by BMWSurfer, Minister of Communications[/I]
[/RIGHT]
[CENTER]Welcome to The Northern Lights.
Recently, The North Pacific hosted a Cards Symposium, a gathering for all members of the cards community. Featured in this edition of The Northern Lights iare five lectures and Q&A sessions with prominent members of the community. We hope you enjoy reading this issue!
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[SIZE=7]Note from the Minister of Cards[/SIZE][/CENTER]
[RIGHT][I]by DGES, Minister of Cards[/I][/RIGHT]
[CENTER]The 2021 Cards Symposium was a large-scale cards festival hosted by The North Pacific during the end of February. Activities relating to this festival were held throughout the span of 1 week, with minigames, guest speakers, and fully-fledged competitions comprising the majority of what took place during the Symposium.
The Symposium marked one of the very first festivals celebrating the cards minigame, with over 110 users attending the event and enjoying it in one way or another. An entire month was spent planning its release, so we hope that this issue of The Northern Lights provides you some perspective on what took place if you weren't there!
Happy reading~[/center]
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[SIZE=7]Q&A with Mikeswill[/SIZE]
[COLOR=#006400][B]Mikeswill:[/B][/COLOR] Welcome to the 2021 Card Symposium.
I would first like to give my thanks to The Infinite Hell-Sage Empire of Destructive Government Economic System for inviting me to share my experiences and opinions on this platform. I am truly humbled by the honor. It represents a degree of success in this endeavor based on much effort.
I do not have an agenda to promote. Instead I am willing to share my experiences in the Card realm over these two plus seasons. A brief history:
The initiation of the Card game during the April 1, 2018 limited period found me in an advantageous position given my long history of creating satellite Nations representing different points and interests in my Nation States life. As such I was able to move cards from these satellite Nations to my main resulting in a top 10 finish at the end of the first run.
When the game resumed in earnest I began as a Heister (a nation that undercuts a sell bid to gain profit); a Penny Bidder (a nation that raises buys in penny increments), and an inflator of Legendary cards (I pushed the price of Legendary cards to $10). The first two tactics brought ill-will and retaliation by a group of card players.
After a few combative conversations with Frisbeeteria I was invited to join a card Discord to the chagrin of many. It was via this Discord that I was able to evolve out my initial game-play and into a more community considerate style of play. Nevertheless, I was guilty of numerous antagonistic conversations for a period of time as I slowly evolved as a trader.
I learned about trade dropping – buying low and selling high on a trade. I learned how to protect a bank transfer after numerous times losing profits to heisters. (I used to transfer bank via 0.50 Rare sales). I learned how to create puppets to facilitate greater card/ bank and gain an advantageous position during pull events. And so it goes.
My intention, therefore, is not to present a position but rather to address any questions a Nation may have. Thus the format will be Q & A.
A few ideas for questions: How setting a reasonable goal can make card trading fun....Why Koem Kab is the only trader I completely trust? ... Dropping on Legendary trades: How to drop and why it is OK... How do I maintain my top 5 position without using scripts?
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [1]:[/B][/COLOR] That last one is interesting. How do you maintain your top 5 position without using scripts?
[COLOR=#006400][B]Mikeswill:[/B][/COLOR]This was a trick question. The answer is unwavering perseverance. I am a bit older than many of the players in NationStates and have had a difficulty understanding the creation and use of scripts or programming or coding or whatever it is called that automates or facilitates a more efficient manner of answering issues and junking cards for bank. So I work harder and longer ... one issue and one junked card at a time.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [2]:[/B][/COLOR]What do you mean by Koem Kab being the only trader you trust and why?
[COLOR=#006400][B]Mikeswill:[/B][/COLOR]In the course of relationships it is easy to create expectations only to be let down at some point. In the card game as in most speculative endeavors one seeks consistency and over the 2+ years of play Koem has been the most consistent trader that I have experienced. Moreover, from my experience, he has yet to act upon emotion over logic.
Other players, me included, have exhibited emotion reactions that go against expectation. Usually these are one time occurrences but they are enough to create doubt in future transactions.
Examples: getting heisted by a Nation who for months gave and received the courtesy of non-interference. Purposefully have one’s pull event blocked so as to deny the opportunity to obtain a card by a player who abused the same system many times over.
Players have changed tactics from time to time for whatever reason. I am not going to necessarily judge why an ally all of a sudden decides to interfere with a bank transfer but I will alter my trades in the future to minimize the interference. (I used to get mad and that will be discussed via a different Q & A.
On the other, Koem trades in Legendary cards as I do so we have a common goal: to maintain and grow the value of these cards. I know that in a bidding war he will have 4x my bank so if he decides he wants the card I am not going too far above MV without encouraging him to drop me. He seems to know that if I am bidding on a high priced Legendary I’m going to buy the card and will back off once MV has made. Even though we seldom if ever converse via telegram we seemingly give and take when a series of Legendary cards hit the market at below MV bids.
So I trust him. I trust him because it is always good to trust at least one other player.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [2]:[/B][/COLOR]How do you look at your trading style in the past and reflect on it today? What was your process for growth in that way?
[COLOR=#006400][B]Mikeswill:[/B][/COLOR]I am far more confident today than I was in the beginning. I began as a penny bidder and heister trying to win every trade for the sake of winning the trade. When I focused on a goal I was able to pin point the trades I wanted to be involved in. This took a degree of trial and error. Moreover, no one likes a penny bidder especially in the Legendary market. It can bring up antagonistic emotions and communications. So I quit being a penny bidder. I also realized that the market is incredibly large. It isn't necessary for me to try to get every card.
One more thing: If you see me buying a non-Legendary card I am probably moving the card from a pup to my main... that means I can inflate the card as high as I want because the bank is secure.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [3]:[/B][/COLOR]What would you say is a good goal to have when beginning as a trader? For this answer, please draw from your own learning experiences and/or mistakes when you were first starting out and explain how it translates to setting a reasonable goal, if you would.
[COLOR=#006400][B]Mikeswill:[/B][/COLOR]When Season 1 began in earnest Legendary cards were the most desired. Although I was in the top 10 in Deck Value, the number of Legendary cards I owned was nowhere near a complete set of 184 cards. Additionally, seven Legendary Nations had ceased to exist since the April 1st rollout making acquisition of those cards far more challenging. And so I set the goal of collecting every Legendary card.
What I found was that I was initially tentative in my trading. I was easily intimidated by players such as Koem Kab and Fris and The Northern Lights who had far more bank and better trade tactics. I can specifically recall needing to get the CTE Legendary Mindless Contempt and knowing that my 200.00 bid – the extent of my bank – would be surpassed before the trade was completed. It can become disheartening when you feel like other traders have the upper hand. And so I changed my goal.
Actually I changed my attitude. I decided that I was not going to allow another Nation intimidate my card play. I got realistic on the amount of bank necessary to successfully consummate whatever trade I wanted to participate in. I decided that I was willing to purchase at 10% above Market Value (sometimes even more) to get the card I desired. I didn’t concern myself with penny bidding in an effort to get the lowest purchase rather I attacked the trade at Market Value. In other words, I got serious about obtaining my goal. And to me that is the ultimate goal, to decide what you want and then go out and get it.
I see so many traders trading to get the best deal and then missing out on the card because they weren’t willing to go the extra 0.25 – the value of a pack. Just yesterday a player bought one of my S1 obscure Epics to beat me out of .01 while another player battled me when all the while they could have spent an extra .02 to get the card.
So to get to the question in more tangible terms: depending on which Region you reside in you might want to start with the goal of collecting every Regional member. I am thinking of collecting both S1 and S2 cards of every WA member in my region. Setting goals which are attainable can bring much satisfaction and in the process develops one’s ability to consummate trades and communicate with card holders in order to persuade them to sell.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [4]:[/B][/COLOR]1. Texan here, how long was your power out, lol
2. As someone looking to farm puppets for cards, how many puppets would you say is a good amount while not giving my life to the trade?
[COLOR=#006400][B]Mikeswill:[/B][/COLOR]1. My condo is near a Fire station so I only lost power for about 2 hours
2. I don't know the answer to the optimum number of puppets to have while still maintaining a real life outside NS. I have 345 active puppets. If I knew how to use scripts or whatever that is called I would probably be far more efficient than I am. I am certain that manually going through 345 pups a day takes up a lot of time.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [5]:[/B][/COLOR]Hi! As a mere enthusiast to this game I find the collecting satisfying, but the sociology fascinating. Though communicating through telegraphs is the clearest way to convey information, I find most interesting the concept of attempting to communicate through bidding alone. Watching players get scared off by a large jump in bids, frantically scouring their trades to see if a puppet of theirs has another copy, attempting to discourage people from penny bidding by immediately jumping to MV, watching people bid .01 below MV as though that number matters at all.
What have you found to be effective methods of conveying intent to other players while bidding (or asking)? How do you discourage those who seek a "good deal" from taking a card you genuinely want?
[COLOR=#006400][B]Mikeswill:[/B][/COLOR]The Sociology of assessing another player by the way they bid is an awesome study. If I see a player penny bidding I presume that their expectations and confidence levels are low... they probably lack sufficient bank to adequately buy cards they want and are playing a game of hope. A large counter bid will usually dissuade them. If a player tries to heist a bank transfer I find that I can wear them down by penny bidding the clock knowing that I have at least one other bank transfer card copy. (I did this to Momo on a Legendary trade an extended the trade for four hours). One of my projects has me buying up some cards and initially I fought off the other bidders by raising my Buy price to deny them the copy of the card. But in retrospect I am just over paying on a card that by the time I want to take advantage of my ownership position, the other player may cease to exist making their ownership moot. And then I use the old fashioned style of communication: I send a telegram. Be careful with telegrams... there are a lot of angry Nations out there.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [5]:[/B][/COLOR]Also, piggybacking off of [Event Participant #2], I assume you trust Koem Kab because their bids are consistent and clear, but do you think their complete monopolistic domination of the legendary market - essentially price fixing the entirety through plurality ownership - is detrimental to the competitive nature of auctions?
My questions are perhaps not technical enough for this Q and A.
[COLOR=#006400][B]Mikeswill:[/B][/COLOR]No. Keep in mind that though Koem owns 11,000 Legendary cards, r3n and I each own over 3,000 apiece. Thus Koem does not have a complete monopolistic domination of the market. Any player has access to the market and is no way curtailed from being successful in the market bank permitted. Whereas I am probably a Democratic Socialists at heart, I have no issue with someone like Koem utilizing his means and talents to arrive at his level of success especially where no one else is denied the same opportunity. I am a perfect example. I have successfully collected every S1 and S2 Legendary without any barriers.
As to the second point - the competitive nature of auctions – Koem has shown far more constraint in maintaining the status quo. The competitive nature of auctions is a myth. Either you have sufficient bank to obtain the card you want or you don’t. The fact that you can pull the desired card removes any barrier to competition. Koem doesn’t arbitrarily inflate Legendary cards (That was Noah in 2020). He simply attempts to maintain the current MV but will aid the inflation of a Legendary on a trade by trade basis as will I.
Now the purposeful inflation of common cards to artificially raise one’s DV as detrimental... :)
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [5]:[/B][/COLOR]Ahh, my question was worded poorly. I mean that Koem does not have to abide by the same issues of competition that I do when bidding on a legendary. They are able to undercut/drop any player on nearly any legendary; the result being that even obscene deals (such as when 9003 accidentally dropped [Zamri1138] for 2 instead of 20) go to Koem by default, and are frequently uncontested. I can do that with my own card and a few others, but they have domination in this respect to (nearly) the entire legendary market. I find the frenzy of bidding on a good deal to be exciting and fun, but don't bother on legendaries because the end result is known.
[COLOR=#006400][B]Mikeswill:[/B][/COLOR]You might want to ask yourself why are you so consumed with Koem Kab at the detriment of your own personal goal... I am not picking on you alone. I think man has an innate nature to criticize the highly successful and thus legitimize their own self-inflicted victimization. For instance: your complaint about Koem in the Legendary market could easily be applied to me. I have sufficient power and bank in that market to dominate any trade. But because I am #3 in the game I don't get the same negative attention that KK does. I am also amused by the frenzy of greed when someone purposefully or not places a low Ask on a Legendary... it means bank for me because if I get to the card before Koem I will drop you and then the ensuing outrage by the player who got dropped is delightful. Because it is outrage based on emotional greed. Keep that in mind in the future. I have been busy with a project so my involvement in the day to day Legendary market has waned but I will be back soon!
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [5]:[/B][/COLOR]I think my comments on Koem came off as antagonistic instead of esoteric. I don't mind them as a player at all, I was trying to get your thoughts on how monopolies and oligarchies skew the market and was using my experience as a comparison, not a complaint. I'm not much of a legendary hound, just trying to compare how market forces are asymmetrically applied to different players. Thanks for your answers!
[COLOR=#006400][B]Mikeswill:[/B][/COLOR][Reacts with sunglasses emoji]
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [6]:[/B][/COLOR]As someone who has been active since the beginning, what is the most enjoyable facet of the card game for you?
I sometimes forget the connection between cards and the nations behind them. Do you place value on cards of players you have a good relationship with? Or are there cards you value due to memorable events (like first Legendary find)?
[COLOR=#006400][B]Mikeswill:[/B][/COLOR]The most enjoyable facet was and is the increased interaction with other game players. Prior to the card game I was basically just keeping my region going as the longest serving WA Delegate in the history of the game (15+ years). Because of the streak I was still active but isolated to my region. I don't participate in the Security Council because I find it either a popularity contest or a travesty to the game mechanics. The General Assembly has gotten incredibly stale as Nations write Resolutions for personal recognition and then Repeal the a week later. (I truly believe that there should be a 6 month wait time before Repeals can be considered). So when the card game arose it gave me the opportunity to branch out far beyond the confines of my nest. I have built relationships with Nations from many Regions reminding me of the joy I had in my first year in the game where players from across the globe engaged. In December I decided to blow past the constraints of Deck Capacity. This has allowed me to increase my collection from < 2,000 to over 15,000 cards giving me the opportunity to collect cards of Nations I have appreciated as players but whose card value might have not fit the prior limitation of deck space.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [7]:[/B][/COLOR]What tactics should you be aware of when you try to card flip in Nationstates?
[COLOR=#006400][B]Mikeswill:[/B][/COLOR]I'm not sure what card flipping is. If that is the Buying low and Selling high trade style I am not a participant as it has no long term return for me. I am mostly a collector of Legendary cards. I will drop on any Legendary trade where I can garner a 5.00 profit or more. Now I do see players buying low on my CTE S1 Common transfer cards thinking they are going to get the 4.00 MV price at some point in the future not realizing that every historical trade has been made between me and my pups. It is the same with Buying inflated Commons thinking that because the card is at 200.00 someone is going to Buy at 50.00. This is Fool's Gold... a waste of bank because eventually the card, if traded, will only decrease in value.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [1]:[/B][/COLOR] With people obviously hoping a Season 3 comes out this year, what can you do to increase the rarity of your potential future card?
[COLOR=#006400][B]Mikeswill:[/B][/COLOR]I have no idea. I am certain I will never be a Legendary because my activities in this game over 17 years tends to go against the grain of the the elite. I think that writing proposals might help. Maybe write a bunch of inane Security Council resolutions and the Repeal them a week later might get you a higher Rarity. Some folks try to manipulate the acquisition of badges. If that is your choice check out this link: [URL]http://www.mwq.dds.nl/ns/results/[/URL] - I just play the game. I was Commended once and then that was repealed out of spite. Other players have tried to both Commend and Condemn me I guess to help increase my card rarity which I have appreciated.
Oh, and S3 will never happen.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [8]:[/B][/COLOR]I've noticed that you have valid concerns regarding whether Season 3 will ever occur, but if we were to be hypothetical and say that Season 3 decided to appear, what do you believe are some of the most important things players should do in order to prepare for the upcoming season?
[COLOR=#006400][B]Mikeswill:[/B][/COLOR]I'm not planning on doing a thing different specifically to plan for Season 3. I know some players have stocked puppets with packs waiting to open them at the time. I don't understand that logic. If S3 is inevitable them S2 cards will become rarer thus why hold onto packs for the future when you can open those packs and replenish them. I am doing something completely separate regarding S2 cards which will mean nothing if S3 doesn't occur. When S3 does begin I will try to get a list of the Legendaries and begin collecting them.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [9]:[/B][/COLOR]Oh, one thing I've been meaning to ask you. It's a very little thing but I'm curious. Why did you decide to bid one cent above junk value on all your puppets' cards? I rarely see others do that - whenever I see a 0.06 bid on an uncommon I almost immediately know it's yours :P
[COLOR=#006400][B]Mikeswill:[/B][/COLOR]I want to incentivize the Seller by bidding above junk. I know that in S1 I never sold at junk, instead taking the bank immediately instead of waiting an hour. I have since changed that policy giving someone else the opportunity to raise the Buy price.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [9]:[/B][/COLOR]Yeah - I can understand not bidding at JV. As small of an increase over JV as it is, the logic seems to follow from my experience. A lot of people do not honor JV bids.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [10]:[/B][/COLOR]Any advice for starter traders who are struggling to earn bank? Further, do you have insight on how to maintain the collection bank balance?
[COLOR=#006400][B]Mikeswill:[/B][/COLOR]One aspect of trading power is a decent Bank and building bank while building a collection is obviously counter-productive. What helped my in S1 was pulling a Farakhan and then selling it at peak which at the time was 800.00. Back then my goal was to never fall to 200.00. This season I have adjusted that figure to 2,000.00 (inflation). In order to do that it takes discipline to stop buying until such time your comfort threshold is met. On that note I am always rather amused when a Nation pulls a Legendary and immediately sells for less than MV. With players like KK and me, said player might get half the bank between his ask and MV. This is a short term satisfaction over long term gratification. Either wait for a MV trade or create interest by having a puppet but at MV.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [6]:[/B][/COLOR]With collecting legendaries, do you focus on building your ownership of any particular cards? Like CTEs or high value, or do you have any other landmarks you're working towards?
[COLOR=#006400][B]Mikeswill:[/B][/COLOR]Good question. As I already own every Legendary card I get to pick and choose which cards I will continue to buy. It is almost a guarantee that I will buy any Legendary whose MV is above 50.00. I do like S1 CTE Commons but as I have 5,000 already I'm not buying though I do have a project in the works which will see me move all of those cards to my main. In doing so I could buy extras. I am thinking of collecting every WA Nation in my Region. Since they have each endorsed me I ought to appreciate them more. I seem to be acquiring copies of my pups for future prosperity and am currently moving my S1 Epics to my main. Any card Gio has a 2.00 bid on goes to Utmost Brownies until such time as it is inflated and then gets sent to MikesHope - currently with 20K DV.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [6]:[/B][/COLOR]You mentioned how blowing past your deck capacity opened up your deck to larger and more personal collections. Can you talk about your thought process behind making that decision, and perhaps how others should face that decision?
[COLOR=#006400][B]Mikeswill:[/B][/COLOR]It simply made financial sense. I kept to my deck space limit of 2,000 cards into December 2020. Keep in mind I had to pay extensive bank to reach this amount although my starting point from the initial April 1 was extensive. Most serious traders I know had long passed their deck capacities giving them an advantage for growing their DV. What I had to over come was my previous comfort in being able to Gift high bank Legendary cards to my main and how to move future bank to my main. So I observed what other players were doing and gave it a go.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [9]:[/B][/COLOR]I realized semi recently that I’m sort of in the same position. My deck capacity is currently 900 and I’ve just started a collection that will assuredly cause me to think twice about expanding it any more. What are some things you’d recommend for those of us who are in the process of making that switch? I suppose, what are the things you observed people doing that made you feel comfortable with making the switch?
[COLOR=#006400][B]Mikeswill:[/B][/COLOR]My greatest challenge was transferring bank as I used 30 CTE cards in rotation. I had to get comfortable transferring large bank (500.00) in small increments (4.00). I watched Gio's inflationary tactics to get comfortable with large bank transfers. Additionally, I had a lot of S1 Commons that I knew would benefit me in the future but I didn't want to put them on the mark. Instead I moved 100 Legs to puppets, Gifted the 100 Commons, and then rebought the Legs - inflated of course. As such, I do my small transfers to MikesHope and Mikes Faith and then my large transfer at a later time. It also meant that I needed to be comfortable with my Bank spread amongst these Nations. All in all it is working out quite nicely.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [9]:[/B][/COLOR]That's good to hear. Definitely the piggybacking and transferring large amounts of bank and cards from my storage nations to my main is the part that I'm most hesitant about. I have over 100 copies between the three different cards I use for mass copy transfers, so I'm not really worried about that bit, but the large amounts of bank and stuff about transferring legs is very helpful. Thanks a lot!
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[SIZE=7]Q&A with W&S[/SIZE]
[COLOR=#006400][B]W&S:[/B][/COLOR] Hi everyone and welcome!
Firstly, I’d like to give a huge THANK YOU to DGES for inviting me to speak at this event, and to 9003, McMasterdonia, Noah, and everyone else who was involved in making this possible. It is an incredible honor for me, as such a new trader, to be featured as a guest speaker at an event like this, and I am so incredibly grateful for the opportunity.
In many ways, this talk is going to be a contrasting viewpoint to Mikeswill’s, who spoke before me. We have very different backgrounds and the goal of this talk is both to provide a contrasting point of view and approach, as well as give new traders a chance to ask whatever questions they might have about how to either start out or transition into large-scale farming. While Mike and I have both been around NS since well before cards (though even there he has about a decade’s headstart on me), Mike has been involved in cards since day one, whereas I only picked up the trading card game in November. Mike does not really use scripts; I have been almost completely dependent on them to rise quickly. It is a good contrast, because while we have similar approaches to some aspects of the game, we have achieved our goals in very different ways. Though we oppose each other in other parts of NS, I have tremendous respect for his persistence and dedication and his commitment to honorable and respectful trading.
So what follows is my card origin story:
On November 26, 2020 I had about 5 bank worth of cards. I occasionally opened packs on my main, but I wasn’t really into it. I was playing on the TRR Minecraft server and putting most of my energy into that. The next day, November 27, some who were on the server (Dakota, Sakana, and Jamie among others) mentioned a pull event was going on.
What is a pull event? They didn’t tell me much except to answer issues on as many puppets as fast as I could and open packs.
So, like a total idiot, I joined in. I started furiously answering issues, manually, on all my puppets. And then, like magic (ha), a S1 Aleisyr appeared.
That was all it took. I was addicted to card farming. The feeling of opening legendary cards and getting so much bank for them was just… especially in government-mandated lockdown, it was that rush of serotonin I had so desperately been missing. It was truly an addiction. And even more so, just like in defending, I wanted to go as fast as humanly possible. Within a few days I discovered scripts, and within a couple of weeks I had tripled the size of my puppet army.
I documented my climb up the ladder. I achieved top 50 global in one month and top 20 global in 2 months. Currently I sit at number 18 on the global leaderboard, with a peak rank of #17. It was a torrid ascent up the rankings - 9003 commented recently that he had not seen anyone climb to page one of the rankings so quickly since the early days of cards.
Along the way, I also gained a reputation for two other things: collecting every single Season 2 legendary card within just a few weeks, and refusing to use MV inflation to maintain or gain deck value. Some others have ascended faster than me, only to see their deck value plummet as the cards that were propping them up deflated. Others have managed, through diversification and creativity, to maintain that ranking, but the community should know by now that I’m not a fan of inflated commons either way. But I digress. That is my story and my claim to fame.
But that is quite enough about me.
I just gave that introduction so y’all can know a little about my background and my position as a trader. But one of my biggest goals in this game is to help new traders access the market and cards they might not have the time or means to grind for. So now I want to hear from you! What do you want to know? I want this to be a no-judgment, no-question-is-dumb, new-trader-friendly space where you can ask me anything about how I gained deck value so quickly, what strategies I used in auctions, or what you can do to either start out in card trading, or make the transition from new player to elite trader.
So with that, enough of my ranting and raving. Let the Q&A begin! I will be happy to answer any questions today, tomorrow, up to the end of the event, or even after.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [1]:[/B][/COLOR] Would you farm if you were away from your computer and on your phone or another device without your scripts?
[COLOR=#006400][B]W&S:[/B][/COLOR] It would certainly be hard for me to keep my interest or have as many nations as I do now. When I started one of the main reasons I switched to scripts was because I went on a huge dry spell without finding any pull event cards or any legendaries at all in around 400 nations. I was really demotivated by that and I wanted to find a point at which my luck would sort of average out.
Still, I think my perspective has changed somewhat now. When I started I farmed to try and get cards; now I farm to get bank. That I think is something a lot of new players could learn from - and something that might keep me motivated in a world where I didn't have scripts. Farming is best for getting bank, not cards.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [2]:[/B][/COLOR] How were you motivated to do cards for that long?
[COLOR=#006400][B]W&S:[/B][/COLOR] I had goals. They were lofty goals, but I was making measurable progress. As long as I was making progress that I could see, I continued to be motivated. Every time I added a S2 legendary to the collection or passed another person in DV, it only fueled my desire to reach higher.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [3]:[/B][/COLOR] When you talk about respectful trading, what are some tips you'd give to newer traders so that they don't accidentally (and unintentionally) step on anyone's toes?
[COLOR=#006400][B]W&S:[/B][/COLOR] The main thing is paying attention to who is taking part in the auction and what you know about them. Is it a main and a known puppet of theirs? Do they have a standing, unmatched bid? Is it a collector trying to buy a card that you don't also need for a collection?
In general it is okay to make mistakes and accidentally step on people's toes, and a lot of the big players will understand if a new player doesn't know. Usually you'll know if that's happened when you get a telegram or a discord ping from someone like "hey that's my transfer". :P
As long as you acknowledge the mistake, the no-harm-no-foul rule applies if you correct it and don't make a habit of getting in the same person's way repeatedly.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [4]:[/B][/COLOR] How do you find time for cards during the day? Do you go and sit and do all daily card stuff at once? Or split it into few parts? Do you have any tips (other than gold retriever and issue script) to save time during doing cards?
[COLOR=#006400][B]W&S:[/B][/COLOR] It really depends on the day. Some days, especially when I'm not working at my IRL job, I will spend hours at a time just spamming enter for as long as I feel like. But more recently I have found that for the sake of my personal health and well-being, especially as the days get warmer here in Austria, I've been splitting it up, so I'll do however many I want, then go outside or walk or go to the store, then come back and finish whatever card work I was doing that day.
I'll also often combine tasks; like when I'm doing a mass-copy transfer, I'll usually also do some farming to both condense the tasks into the same timeframe while also having a chance to TCALS another copy of the card.
Hotkeys are really helpful. If you don't have 9003's hotkey tool, get it. Pressing F to flip, J to junk etc is way faster than clicking. :P
I also like to place "reminder asks" on low-owner commons or uncommons I think would make good piggyback-transfer cards, so if I find a second copy of it I will see that I own another copy of that card, and then be able to hold onto both copies in the inevitable eventuality that I need to start doing a lot more piggybacking (when I run out of deck space).
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [4]:[/B][/COLOR] And a bonus question:
Do you open your packs asap or do you collect them and open when you have X amount? What is more satisfying to you? :D
[COLOR=#006400][B]W&S:[/B][/COLOR] I always open packs right away. Saving packs is pointless for me. I get that some people wanna save them for S3, I just don't feel the need to.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [5]:[/B][/COLOR] (Who knows if we’re even gonna get a S3 tbh.)
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [4]:[/B][/COLOR] Oh and didn't mean S3. Rather like - do you prefer to eat one cookie a day or a cake at the weekend? :D
[COLOR=#006400][B]W&S:[/B][/COLOR] Farming is eating the whole cake for me. I need that serotonin immediately. :P
I have so many nations that farming by itself is the cake, lol.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [1]:[/B][/COLOR] How's the S1 Legendary Collection going?
[COLOR=#006400][B]W&S:[/B][/COLOR] 55/184. Been on a bit of a hiatus lately. Trying to kick it back into gear soonish. S1 legendaries are HARD O.o
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [1]:[/B][/COLOR] Meanwhile me at 18..
[COLOR=#006400][B]W&S:[/B][/COLOR] LOL :P yeah I did add another to the collection just now! TUMS sniped one of them because I wasn't looking but I'm ok with not fighting TUMS all the time, lol.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [1]:[/B][/COLOR] What's your preferred method of transfer?
[COLOR=#006400][B]W&S:[/B][/COLOR] Mass copy. 100% mass copy is my favorite.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [4]:[/B][/COLOR] What is flipping?
[COLOR=#006400][B]W&S:[/B][/COLOR] Flipping has two meanings. Flipping over the cards when you open the pack is what I was talking about.
But flipping also means buying a card for a low price and immediately turning around and listing it for higher.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [4]:[/B][/COLOR] Oh, then I'm weird. I open packs, don't flip and keep opening packs until I open all without looking at cards so I have a nice surprise if I get a TEP Card / high MV / Leg ;D
[COLOR=#006400][B]W&S:[/B][/COLOR] Ah, you're like HS then. HS does the same thing.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [1]:[/B][/COLOR] How does your timezone affect your pull event availability?
[COLOR=#006400][B]W&S:[/B][/COLOR] For US based pull events it is usually quite good. Most take place in the afternoon in the US, which is evening for me. Perfect. But evening in the US is like 3 A.M. for me usually :P
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [1]:[/B][/COLOR] If you're in a pull event who has time to look at what you pull? Lol.
[COLOR=#006400][B]W&S:[/B][/COLOR] Me because I need that rush.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [4]:[/B][/COLOR] If you could speak to yourself from time when you started doing cards, what advice would you give yourself?
[COLOR=#006400][B]W&S:[/B][/COLOR] Ooooo, that is a good question. The biggest piece of advice would be to not beat myself up over losing out in an auction or going on a long streak without a particular card. On that note, maybe the best answer is that farming is for getting bank, not cards. One of the most demotivating things as I was starting out as a trader was going on long dry streaks without finding a legendary or a card of the type I wanted. On the one hand it made me hungry to make more puppets, but in that quest I may have overextended myself from time to time.
When you farm cards, really you are farming bank to buy the cards you want. Bank is the most important piece of leverage in auctions and the most important thing when it comes to doing what you want to with cards. It does feel good to get that card you want in a pack, but just like IRL TCGs (i was a semi competitive magic the gathering player for a while), it is usually far easier and cheaper to just buy the card. Unless there is a pull event. Pull events are the exception. :P
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [1]:[/B][/COLOR] How's TSP's card program going?
[COLOR=#006400][B]W&S:[/B][/COLOR] It's good! Got a little slowed down because Vietnam and I were both running for Cabinet, but we are expecting it to kick back into high gear here in the extremely near future. I've put several thousand bank's worth of cards and bank into it, and I'm really excited for what we will be able to offer in terms of programming and rewards for those who join. We've spent a ton of time and energy planning this and I think it will go really well.
(That is also the main reason for the hiatus I mentioned in the answer to your previous question.)
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [4]:[/B][/COLOR] How do you suggest one should prepare for a pull event? I've never participated in one so any advice is probably cool :D
[COLOR=#006400][B]W&S:[/B][/COLOR] Make sure all your nations have 5 issues and then just answer them! The most important thing is having a full slate of issues, not card packs, because TCALS only works for a very short time after you receive the pack. You need to open it right away in order to have a chance to pull the card at auction.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [4]:[/B][/COLOR] Oh interesting. I didn’t know that.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [6]:[/B][/COLOR] Do you get your DV from magic?
[COLOR=#006400][B]W&S:[/B][/COLOR] Yes.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [6]:[/B][/COLOR] Knew it.
Abra cadabra, summonus Testlandus!
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [1]:[/B][/COLOR] Testlandia's DV just plummeted 100 bank >>>
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [4]:[/B][/COLOR] I’ma try that.
Abra cadabra, sommonus Xorietus!
[COLOR=#006400][B]W&S:[/B][/COLOR] Sad she isn’t here :’(
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [1]:[/B][/COLOR] What do you believe is key to driving regional engagement in cards?
[COLOR=#006400][B]W&S:[/B][/COLOR] Accessibility, approachability, and good incentives for participation. I think that is one of the things that has gotten people to be interested in TSP's org - we've kept our cards planning channel pretty open to people who want to help out, and we've run giveaways and especially pull events already on rare and unique cards that aren't often featured. So it gives people a chance to get something they wouldn't have been able to get otherwise. And that is a really big part of driving interest, I think.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [7]:[/B][/COLOR] Who got you into cards?
[COLOR=#006400][B]W&S:[/B][/COLOR] That is a little complicated. Certainly the event that sent me off the deep end was TNP's Aleisyr pull event, which I believe you, Dakota, and Sakana told me I should try. But there is a laundry list of people that were prodding me to try it for a while - you three and HumanSanity were probably the ones that did the most damage though. :P
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [4]:[/B][/COLOR] HS does cards? o.O
[COLOR=#006400][B]W&S:[/B][/COLOR] "Does cards" is a strong way of phrasing his tendency to lie dormant for weeks at a time until he decides to wake up and pull 6 copies of a card without realizing it in a pull event.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [8]:[/B][/COLOR] Other than Legendaries, are there other cards that you're interested in collecting?
[COLOR=#006400][B]W&S:[/B][/COLOR] I will be doing a collection for Founderless in season 3. Otherwise - usually I just collect friends and prominent defenders and gameplayers. And my own Season 1 puppets. A ton of my nations have S1 ex-nation flags. :P
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [9]:[/B][/COLOR] Considering that the market is only increasing, do you think the barriers of entry (into the market) are also only increasing?
[COLOR=#006400][B]W&S:[/B][/COLOR] Certainly the barriers to gaining ranks quickly are increasing as more traders get interested and the inflation meta is taking over. And Season 1 cards are much harder to come by than they were even a few months ago. But Season 2 cards, especially legendaries, are continuing to balloon in supply, so it is actually getting (IMO) far easier to collect sought-after cards, since supply is only going up for Season 2.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [10]:[/B][/COLOR] How to get Testlandia?
[COLOR=#006400][B]W&S:[/B][/COLOR] IDK, just farm more :P - I pulled one today.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [10]:[/B][/COLOR] Oh this isn't Card Google, sorry.
[COLOR=#006400][B]W&S:[/B][/COLOR] It’s ok; I’m used to being treated like a search engine :’o
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [10]:[/B][/COLOR] What do you recommend for players like me who are currently not really farming but want to up their card game?
[COLOR=#006400][B]W&S:[/B][/COLOR] So the main thing before you really get going is ask yourself what you want to do. What are your goals? What sort of cards do you want to collect? Do you just want to focus purely on deck value? Or is there a rarity of card you like? Or a region? Or a flag? These are all questions that can guide you. The thing that really got me going was having concrete and achievable DV, rank, and collection goals. I said OK I want top 500 by X date - got that, now I want top 10 TSP by x date, and I wrote these things down. I still have a note in my phone with all my rank milestone dates.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [9]:[/B][/COLOR] How many farms are considered "bare minimum" for someone who is attempting to start farming a decent collection (of say...all nations in a 100+ member UCR)? Or, in your opinion, this minimum doesn't exist?
[COLOR=#006400][B]W&S:[/B][/COLOR] I don’t think there really is a minimum - you can achieve something like that with very few nations. The number of farms you have only affects the speed with which you get the necessary bank and cards, not your ability to collect them.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [9]:[/B][/COLOR] So if I can't collect cards like everyday, maybe I could consider having more puppets? (To make up for it?)
[COLOR=#006400][B]W&S:[/B][/COLOR] I mean, that depends on the time you want to dedicate to it. If you want to put a lot of hours into farming every day and collecting cards quickly, absolutely. If you only have a little bit of time, then having 1000 nations to farm every single day probably isn’t feasible.
One of the reasons I was able to go so ham in December and January is because I had an absolutely insane amount of time and not much else to do with it. I couldn’t leave my apartment except to walk along the river and go to the grocery store.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [8]:[/B][/COLOR] Having completed the S2 Legendary set, and not being a mass hoarder of the entire rarity, what is your approach to selling duplicate copies received from farming? I understand the "Farrakhan" approach to dump for whatever bids are present contributes to deflation and newbies getting dropped by KK/Mikeswill. Though I've also seen asks below MV sitting for weeks (either unwanted or unknown about). Does a middle-path exist, or what thoughts do you have on selling Legendaries?
[COLOR=#006400][B]W&S:[/B][/COLOR] My approach to selling is that I basically keep all the cards unless I see that someone is looking for one, or I see a reasonable bid. There are only a few legendary cards that I hoard - notably Glen-Rhodes and Pencil Sharpeners 2. otherwise I just keep what i find unless someone is specifically looking for them.
Eventually I will look to increase my market share on a lot more legendary cards, but that is a long way off. I've moved on to collecting Season 1 legendary cards for now.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [8]:[/B][/COLOR] Mikeswill has mentioned how blowing past their deck limit has allowed them to gather more cards of their friends. You said you want to collect your friends' cards, do you intend to blow past your deck limit?
[COLOR=#006400][B]W&S:[/B][/COLOR] Basically the only reason I increased my deck limit for a while is because it made it easier to send myself legendary cards and others I liked that I got from farming. I don't anticipate doing that for much longer - I plan to use one of my existing nations as a storage nation for bank, transfer cards, etc, and then start transferring things to my main. I think the magic number will be 1000 cards - once I hit that I will stop increasing my deck limit and just blow past it.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [11]:[/B][/COLOR] What would be your advice to any new players that want to collect all legendaries?
[COLOR=#006400][B]W&S:[/B][/COLOR] Great question! First thing is that you need bank and a lot of it. Yes, it's possible to get most of the legendaries by farming, but that takes a lot of time and you can't collect them all that way.
Unfortunately, buying legendaries means dealing with a lot of traders who have a lot more resources than you. Mostly Koem Kab and Mikeswill, but also flippers, MV sharks, and others looking to make money. The most important thing for legendary auctions is to know that you will almost always be at a disadvantage in terms of leverage, and will thus need to know how and when to cut your losses.
My favorite strategy, because I have a strong distaste for long auctions, was to match a below-MV ask, and then whenever KK or someone else with a leverage advantage showed up and overbid me, just bid straight to MV and allow them to drop me there. Thus I would get the card at or near its market value, and they would make a profit from the drop. Everyone gets what they want.
The golden rule is to never, ever, ever bid more than you are willing to buy a card for, and likewise never, ever, ever ask less than you are willing to sell a card for. That is how you lose money.
Still, for some high value CTE cards like Ramaeus, Caelapes, NERVUN, Altmer Dominion, Drasnia, etc., pull events are your best friend. Those cards are extremely expensive because they are well-known players who CTEd, and thus quantities are limited. Finding sellers is hard, and when someone is willing to sell it is often for very high prices.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [11]:[/B][/COLOR] You said that the best way is to match a below-MV ask first, then allow people to drop you. What if there isn't an ask below MV? What should people do then?
[COLOR=#006400][B]W&S:[/B][/COLOR] If there isn't an ask below MV, you are often safe from getting dropped. Koem Kab usually does not get involved in auctions going on at or slightly above MV.
If the auction is significantly above MV (say, a Season 1 legendary with an MV of 25 that is being sold for 50), he will often placea bid and ask of his own to inflate the card, but he will not fight or drop you. He is only inflating his own deck value more by creating a second match, so for your sake it's benign.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [12]:[/B][/COLOR] [In response to Event Participant #11’s question] Get a friend (or several) with farms that are willing to donate spares to you. ;P
[COLOR=#006400][B]W&S:[/B][/COLOR] Having friends helps a LOT. :P
I got Ramaeus, Altmer Dominion, Nova Hollandia, and several other hard-to-find ones from gifts. And YOU gifted me my Soops. <_<
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [13]:[/B][/COLOR] For Season 3, do you think we can expect an increase or decrease in legendary cards?
[COLOR=#006400][B]W&S:[/B][/COLOR] That’s a really good question. I think in the short term Season 2 legendaries will go up, but there are so many copies of most of them that I don’t know how far. The thing about the S2 leg market is that there is just so much supply especially compared to S1. I notice this the more and more I try to hunt for season 1 legs - supply simply far outpaces demand in the S2 market.
Still, if the continuous influx of new copies slows, we can at least expect the general deflation to slow as well.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [12]:[/B][/COLOR] [In response to Event Participant #13’s question] Do you mean the value of legendaries or the number of them in circulation? Going by previous seasons, they're fixed at 0.1% of all nations at the time of the snapshot, so we'll be seeing ~240 of them for S3 based on the current number of nations.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [13]:[/B][/COLOR] Number in circulation; sorry if that was unclear.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [12]:[/B][/COLOR] No, your question was clear; I wouldn't have assumed you were talking about value. :P
[COLOR=#006400][B]W&S:[/B][/COLOR] Oh, sorry. I did assume it was the value. I was also extremely tired and had drank about half a bottle of wine that evening. :P
But [Event Participant #12] is right. Both previous seasons had 0.1% of all cards as legendary. So I would expect a significant increase for S3.
[hr]
[SIZE=7]Q&A with The Salaxalans[/SIZE]
[COLOR=#006400][B]The Salaxalans:[/B][/COLOR]
**Potatoes and Branding**
*"When you are the potatoes guy everyone is like, 'Yeah, it's the potatoes guy!'" - Max Barry*
Welcome one and all to the Potato portion of the Cards Symposium! Thank you to the North Pacific Card Guild for hosting this Symposium, and thank you to DGES for inviting me to speak on a most important topic. There can never be enough potatoes, after all!
For those of you who don’t know me, I’ve been playing NS since late 2012, with most of my time spent in Spiritus. I was always friendly with people from outside the region, and Spiritus had some minor prominence in assorted NS events. Then, five years ago, the first Secretary-General election occurred. I saw that the event had begun, and had the following sequence of thoughts: “Oh an election! I should run! Hmm… What should my campaign be… Uh… Potatoes!!!” And thus a brand was born. I spent the entire election screaming nonstop about potatoes, narrowly losing in the final round. From this point on, potatoes were a frequent theme for me and by extension Spiritus. Our government now has assorted potato-themed titles, in NS events we usually have a potato-themed name, in the second Secretary-General election I was Kuriko’s running mate and potatoes became featured prominently in the platform, and recently in Spiritus we even held a potato pardon where I drew faces on two potatoes and everyone in Spiritus could vote on which to pardon. The other, unfortunately, was smashed with a hammer.
Of course, potatoes are a silly thing to base an identity on. But that’s exactly why it works: potatoes are simple, kind of funny, easy to grasp. Taking an idea and running with it to the furthest extent possible until you are entirely associated with it, that gives you an identity so that people know who you are even if you’ve never met. Spiritus and I have embraced the potato as a symbol of whimsy and friendliness, infusing our region and interactions with others with those characteristics. It has become a great tool for diplomacy, recently uniting many regions under the banner of the Potato Alliance for N-Day, helping us to forge relationships with regions we previously didn’t know as well, bonding over potatoes and our shared hopes of victory. The yelling and cheering about potatoes rarely let up for the entire 24 hours; such a spudly display had never been seen before! The ultimate culmination of the potato brand was Max Barry talking about it a little bit in an author Q&A livestream several months ago, and soon after sending me a “Special Potato Edition” signed copy of Providence, his newest book. All it takes is screaming about the same food item for several years nonstop!
Now, this is a cards symposium, so I suppose I have to bring this around to cards somehow! As many of you may be aware I have been collecting all potato-related cards. Anything with potato flags, nation names, or quotes, I want them all! Aside from collecting cards from my region and somewhat passively trying to collect staff cards, potatoes are the main goal. Deck value is of no interest to me, I’m just trying to be silly and collect my potatoes! This has resulted in my looking at cards from an entirely different perspective; I only recently started making some more nations so I could farm more effectively, and I have yet to use any scripts. Potato farming is the only goal, something silly and fun that isn’t too stressful. I can hang out with everyone collecting cards, see all the wackiness going on, but not get caught up in any stress from complicated trades or high level deals. It’s quite peaceful, and fascinating to see what goes on not having to worry about anything affecting me! Of course, being an admin in the cards server means I do have to actually know what’s going on, but I’ve tried to carry the whimsical and friendly potato attitude from Spiritus to the NS Cards server as well, keeping it a light-hearted place where everyone can hang out and have fun.
In short, the humble potato went from a meme campaign pledge, to a personal and regional brand, to a mindset and attitude brought to interregional interactions, card collecting, and NS in general. It’s difficult, in NS, to separate Spiritus or myself from potatoes, providing a way for all to know us. Branding is important; taking a simple brand and running with it can lead to great renown or at least, in the case of the potato, bemused bewilderment.
Thank you all for reading, and do not forget: A potato for all!
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [1]:[/B][/COLOR] What species of potato is your favourite and can you crest a brand name you can utilise to your advantage?
[COLOR=#006400][B]The Salaxalans:[/B][/COLOR] I love all potatoes equally!
And Potato Alliance has been a pretty good brand name so far. :P
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [2]:[/B][/COLOR] How do you find all potato cards? (What methods do you use to effectively find cards that would probably only been found in packs otherwise?)
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [3]:[/B][/COLOR] (All potatoes are equal, but some are more equal than others.)
[COLOR=#006400][B]The Salaxalans:[/B][/COLOR] TNP's Card Queries tool has been vital. I did searches for everything I could think of, with obvious things like "potato" or "tater" but also "fries" or "tato", anything that might be referring to potatoes. Recently I realized that a lot of cards relating to fast food restaurants might contain potatoes because there will be fries if the flag shows a meal, so I searched for those as well. In addition I rely on people noticing cards that have a potato only in their flag; there's no way to search for those but periodically people who know I want potatoes will notice one.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [4]:[/B][/COLOR] Since we all know your favourite vegetable, what's your least favourite?
[COLOR=#006400][B]The Salaxalans:[/B][/COLOR] Brussels sprouts. >_<
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [5]:[/B][/COLOR] They're not that bad; eggplants are worse.
[COLOR=#006400][B]The Salaxalans:[/B][/COLOR] Oooh.
Hmmm.
You might be right.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [5]:[/B][/COLOR] Fellow eggplant hater! ^_^
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [6]:[/B][/COLOR] I've always been curious about this one thing. :O
What's your opinion/thoughts/feelings on the mention of your potato card collection in your commendation Morover authored?
(Specifically the following clause: "The collection of a massive amount of artwork commemorating the starchy food, the full assemblage of which is valued at an astronomical price")
[COLOR=#006400][B]The Salaxalans:[/B][/COLOR] I thought it was wonderful. xD
Official recognition of potatoes is a great thing!
[hr]
[SIZE=7]Q&A with Atlae[/SIZE]
[COLOR=#006400][B]Atlae:[/B][/COLOR] Hey all. I’m Atlae.
I joined NationStates in February 2016, so it’s been almost five years on this stupid game. Last night, at the behest of friends, I found myself addicted to another card-based minigame, Magic the Gathering. :P - But until I leave cards forever with a huge giveaway I’ll still be in NationStates, The East Pacific, and cards for now. I joined the cards server on March 18 of 2020, probably at the behest of y0, but didn’t start collecting until April. My deck value really took off in May due to the Loop pull event. You may know me as the guy who’s collecting all TEP Cards (S1 is 85% complete, S2 is 93% complete as I’m writing this), or a member of Big Farma, or, for the purpose of this lecture, Deputy Steward of TEAPOT, The Eastern Association of Pacifican Ornamental Traders. I understand that my lecture, how to grow a regional organization, may be a bit strange considering that this Cards Symposium is hosted by the TNP Card Guild, who are doing a great job in many respects and probably know more about building an organization than I do. Nevertheless, I hope this lecture can be of use to you all.
The story about how I got into cards and how TEP got into cards is pretty interesting. It was April 2018, under Queen Yuno’s Delegacy, when cards were introduced. For the months leading up to April, we in the TEP government had been plotting. Finally, on March 18th, “Liberate The East Pacific” was proposed. On March 23rd, the Eastern Loligarchical Order (ELO) was formed, bringing in a whole new era of Francoism. But it was all a silly prank and fooled quite a few people, some of whom are now in power today. It was kind of stressful behind the scenes but it was enjoyable being on the other side of it. We really thought we’d done a better prank than what Max Barry could pull. And frankly, trading cards? That didn’t seem all that interesting, to be honest.
Of course, there were still traders in The East Pacific. Many had holdovers from April 1, but some like VW53aland were actively trading. For a while, Queen Yuno was probably at the top of DV charts in The East Pacific. But cards was never a thing that could unite a community like regional government or R/D could. It’s hard collecting data about this since the DMZ (server under Yuno and Fedele) was archived and I didn’t think to ask to reopen it until this lecture. Maybe I’ll ask and receive more information about the history of cards in The East Pacific, but for the purposes of this lecture let’s assume that cards weren’t really prevalent in The East Pacific until Season 2.
In December of 2019, some nerd named Evrigenis or y0 joined The East Pacific. Like the nerd he is, he got addicted to cards and got his friends to collect them as well. By late February 2020, he had started a “farming operation.” The group chat that would eventually become TEAPOT was formed on March 9th and added people one at a time over the course of a few months. Of course, that time was the pandemic, which probably freed up a lot of time for some people, like me.
y0 probably was the one who created the channel #ns-trading-cards in TEP’s server. That’s where I probably first got into cards. At this point, I had a bunch of leftover R/D puppets that I would farm, and I would choose each option manually (based on the number on the puppet mod number of options). Then I got into scripting, which made my life a lot easier and probably changed my life the most but we can talk about that another day. I shared these with my fellow East Pacifican farmers, albeit with some questionable advice (I mentioned that I put a walkie-talkie on the enter button to hold it down).
In late May, y0 also ran a pull event on the legendary very epic figure of 1 Infinite Loop, widely considered the founder of The East Pacific. Unfortunately, due to blocks (a time before TCALS nerfs when we didn’t know much) we got 2 pulls, one of which was me. That probably jumpstarted me into cards.
A few weeks later in June, we discussed the future of our little card farmers’ group. For the 10th slot in our group chat, we invited Sakana, who was this large figure in cards in TEP that I guess (I was probably intimidated by her and her place in the community lol) Sidenote, but Sakana was one of the reasons I got into cards in the first place. I almost heisted her once during a transfer but she still was nice to me and encouraged me. Thanks Sak!
Anyway, we decided to be our own separate, independent, non-governmental organization. This probably sets TEAPOT apart from many other card organizations because theirs is a ministry or a fully integrated part of the government. It was sort of modeled after TNP’s card guild, but then they made their Ministry of Cards so uh honestly I don’t know if it made a difference or not.
Reading through the old chats, I smile with nostalgia when we decided to choose names. Cards Bureau, Cards Mafia, Cards Agricultural Department… It looks like I suggested the acronym TEAPOT and Sakana filled in the blanks. I’m also proud to say I designed the TEAPOT logo (I also redesigned it this year) but my proposal for the TEAPOT flag was bad and I’m glad it wasn’t approved.
Growing TEAPOT was maybe a little hard first. After gaining legitimacy through a Magisterium resolution, our opus memorandi was to contact some of the traders in TEP to get them to join. Well, mostly people from outside TEP came into join at first, because card organizations!
The first major thing that TEAPOT did was in September, organizing the Tea House of Cards festival with Lazarus and XKI. It was a cards festival not unlike this here Cards Symposium, actually, with pull events, games, and all that. Great minds think alike? :P
After the Tea House of Cards festival, TEAPOT has been holding monthly pull events and will soon start giveaways soon. In almost 9 months, TEAPOT has grown to about 30 people. I don’t know how much people other cards organizations have gotten, but I’d assume we’re doing pretty well. The North Pacific’s Cards Guild has 90 people, but they have had a nice head start and everything. Well deserved too.
It seems that regional card organizations are now really in vogue. While I don’t know everything about each region’s motivations in cards, I would guess that this is due to an increased focus on cards being a community endeavor rather than something a few farmers somewhere can rack up without serving any real purpose to the game. I know that regions like The Pacific, The South Pacific, and The Rejected Realms have created their own cards organizations and hosted pull events as well.
To all the new cards organizations out there (and DavanteAdams, hi!) I encourage you to band together like XKI, Laz, and TEP did earlier. Everyone will start out small, so working together will get you where you need to go in terms of human capital. In addition, you’ll meet all sorts of new people and perspectives and might even boost foreign relations. This may have the downside of cards politicking but unfortunately there’s not much I can do about that.
In addition, I’d suggest reaching out to small farmers starting out in your region. You’re not going to find people just by going down the DV leaderboard. What you need is a community who can eventually grow and find their own niche in trading. A regional telegram works if you want to go the lazy way about this. :stuck_out_tongue:
One thing I would honestly say TEAPOT has struggled with (this is the same with many other cards organizations) is that sometimes, it seems like a group of people that hosts pull events now and again. Pull events are great, of course, but they aren’t everything. Also, anybody with a lot of bank these days can hold a pull event, no regional organization required. Thus, once an organization has its footing, try and diversify. Card giveaways are really trendy now, games like scavenger hunts, etc. Always look for new ideas.
Overall, I think that the space for regional cards organizations is growing. Our good friends in The North Pacific have reigned as the most powerful region in terms of cards for a while, but in a year or a few years this may change. I’m eager to see what new cards organizations will thrive and how this will effect the meta of the trading cards minigame.
Thank you for reading, and I will try and answer any and all questions you may have. It can be about TEAPOT, about me, anything really I guess.
Further reading:
y0 and Gr
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [1]:[/B][/COLOR] What would you recommend for a fledgling regional card organisation to focus on? (Special consideration to pitfalls that TEAPOT may have fallen in/narrowly avoided.)
[COLOR=#006400][B]Atlae:[/B][/COLOR] The most important thing in my view for a regional organization - of any regional organization really is outreach. One reason why is because it's for the very survival of an organization. At the core an organization is a group of people. Over time this group of people will shrink unless you find a way to increase the amount of people. Thus you have to think long term about what things will get people into the organization. That's where you think of things like pull events and games.
Another reason is because it benefits the cards minigame as a whole. For the most part, adding more people into the game makes it better. You might be annoyed at the MV sharks, but they indisputably made the game more interesting. And if you really hate them, convince them not to when they join your organization.
I realize that I forgot to mention something that TEAPOT struggled with. It's important to have some form of conflict resolution or mediation procedure. Although we did have anti-heist clauses in our charter, we didn't count for people deflating other people's cards to deflate their DV. Now whether that is a thing that needs to be adjudicated is honestly up to the community to decide.
I also regret not doing other events with TEAPOT, since I mostly just held pull events once a month.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [2]:[/B][/COLOR] It was mentioned that many of the initial members of TEAPOT were from other regions which helped the organisation grow in the initial period, what other advantages have you seen from the more relaxed membership requirements?
[COLOR=#006400][B]Atlae:[/B][/COLOR] Buffed membership stats. :P
In particular, 9003 and Racoda came into TEAPOT pretty early on. They helped with scripts and other materials like farming guides.
Overall you will probably get like card cosmos in your organization. That's good as long as they actually contribute. Otherwise it gives you a false sense of success when you don't have people from your own region in your org.
[COLOR=#006400][B]Atlae:[/B][/COLOR] ...I'm bored and like to hear myself talk, do you have any questions about me specifically? :P
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [2]:[/B][/COLOR] What was the motivation behind starting a regional collection?
[COLOR=#006400][B]Atlae:[/B][/COLOR] For a few months I didn't think I'd be able to do it. I probably started because hey, I know some of these people.
I think Vylixan had something to do with it; seemed like a cool thing to do and I had a lot of new time on my hands with COVID.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [3]:[/B][/COLOR] How did you choose the nation name ‘The Atlae Isles’?
[COLOR=#006400][B]Atlae:[/B][/COLOR] It was a long time ago. It's hard to think of names.
I wanted to go "Atlantis", but of course that didn't exist.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [3]:[/B][/COLOR] Cards question now - Other than TEP S3 - do you have any particular one goal in mind for when S3 hits?
[COLOR=#006400][B]Atlae:[/B][/COLOR] Well I plan on collecting mottoes too.
Probably stockpiling specific cards to use as mass transfers and hoard legendaries.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [4]:[/B][/COLOR] Atlae, for S3 I should give you my card and you should treasure it like gold!
[COLOR=#006400][B]Atlae:[/B][/COLOR] How much will it cost?
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [4]:[/B][/COLOR] F r e e.
[COLOR=#006400][B]Atlae:[/B][/COLOR] The card will be worth 0.00?
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [4]:[/B][/COLOR] Ohhh. I thought you meant how much will it cost you lol.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [3]:[/B][/COLOR] So, since you like questions about yourself, have you always been a legend of Zelda fan?
[COLOR=#006400][B]Atlae:[/B][/COLOR] Well I really got into it in 9th grade.
So like 4 years ago.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [3]:[/B][/COLOR] Do you have any Zelda themed puppet sets?
[COLOR=#006400][B]Atlae:[/B][/COLOR] Check Atlae-1 to Atlae-200.
Mipha, Champion Daruk, Champion Revali, Lady Urbosa are all Zelda themed.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [3]:[/B][/COLOR] :D
Thanks for answering. ^_^
[COLOR=#006400][B]Atlae:[/B][/COLOR] Np!
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [5]:[/B][/COLOR] Is it possible to create a bank in Nationstates?
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [6]:[/B][/COLOR] Only by junking or selling cards.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [5]:[/B][/COLOR] Ah.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [6]:[/B][/COLOR] No way will there be an option to buy any.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [5]:[/B][/COLOR] Would it be worth it?
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [6]:[/B][/COLOR] No, it'd just become a pay to win on the card market.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [7]:[/B][/COLOR] Agreed.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [5]:[/B][/COLOR] I meant a bank set up by private players.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [6]:[/B][/COLOR] How would that even work?
[COLOR=#006400][B]Atlae:[/B][/COLOR] [In response to Event Participant #5’s question] Probably. I don't know enough about banks but theoretically people could.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [3]:[/B][/COLOR] What is next for you in NS, generally?
[COLOR=#006400][B]Atlae:[/B][/COLOR] Couping TRR
Idk really.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [3]:[/B][/COLOR] “Time to junk those TEP cards you have bids on.”
[COLOR=#006400][B]Atlae:[/B][/COLOR] Nuuu.
[hr]
[SIZE=7]Farrakhan's Lecture[/SIZE]
"But one man's rubbish may be another's treasure, and what is the standard of value in such a pursuit as this?"
-Hector Urquhart 'Popular Tales of the West Highlands''
As-Salaam Alaikum
One of the great things about the NS Card Trading Mini-Game is its open-ended nature. Players can engage as often or as little as they like, choose their own goals, and find their levels of satisfaction. My chosen style focuses on making a market for my card and managing the challenges that come with it. Back in 2019, I played for the short-term, intending to land the Top Deck Value before the end of the year. In four months, I managed the Farrakhan Season 1 card to around 500 MV, with purchases at a peak ranging between 400-800 Bank, eventually reaching my goal. For those interested, you can read more about the details of my earlier system in-The Monthly Snapshot - Issue 2 (Trader of the Month/Interview).
When I decided to return to active play last Summer with a new campaign, my goal was to rejuvenate the Farrakhan Season 1 card, reach 100 total copies, outperform the Legendary cards whose MV I had previously failed to displace, and score the top MV among all actively traded cards in the game (not including expired transfer cards). It took several months but on the day of this review (1/30/2021), I finally reached my magic number of 100 copies, and have peaked at an MV of 1,126, completing my goal!
In this write-up, I will offer my thoughts on the ways a player can operate as a Market Maker for their card, discuss some of the challenges that are inherent within the structure of the game, share my experiences using certain strategies, and discuss different metrics players can use to evaluate a Market Maker managed Card as a potential store of value.
The Impossible Trinity
The challenges inherent in making a market for a Card, are similar to that of managing a currency in the FOREX market. Commitment to certain actions will limit the potentiality of others. Every moment of the game, NS players face three conflicting options:
Maintain Bank with full liquidity
Provide Undivided Support for a Position
Retain Flexibility to Support Multiple Positions simultaneously
By definition, focus on any one element will nullify the ability to carry out the other two options. For example, Leg 1 of the triangle (retaining a fully liquid Bank) will prevent a player from placing Standing Bids and/or stepping into a live auction. Leg 2 (Making a Market) inhibits taking on additional outside positions and makes bank capital less liquid. Leg 3 (flexibility to pursue multiple positions) weakens the potential to act as a Market Maker and commits liquid Bank into the market. No player can escape the Impossible Trinity, we can only set goals and manage with-in the framework. Failure to effectively balance and navigate the limitations imposed by this trilemma will often lead to severe consequences: Bank Insolvency, Crashes in Market Value, Boom/Bust Cycles in Total Deck Value, inability to fulfill collection needs, etc. Player beware.
From the standpoint of my experiences playing as a Market Maker, the main trade-off has come from Leg 3 (flexibility/diversity in building a collection). With a focus on using Capital Formation to fund Bank, I willingly sacrificed appreciation of the artistic aspects of the game, using Card Farming to liquidate positions for future investment. At times, I have focused nearly exclusively on Leg 1, which delayed the fulfillment of goals that could only be brought about through Leg 2 (ie. realizing maximum Deck Value, actualizing near-term Farrakhan S1/S2 MV potential). I have used a Reserve Bank( Gold Crescent Alistan)to build a second Market Maker position in Farrakhan S2, and a Treasury( FMM1)to help manage Farrakhan S1, but elements of Leg 3 don't stretch far beyond that in my system. Keep these types of trade-offs in mind when measuring if my methods would align with what makes the game enjoyable for you.
Advice For Beginners Acting As A Market Maker
Whether you are a long-time player, an experienced player who recently had their card generated for the first time, or are completely new to the game, developing the value of your card can be a great experience. Below are some tips which may prove helpful:
*Determine the percentage of Total Bank you are willing to commit toward acquiring copies, repeating Standing Bids, and/or enacting Direct Market purchases (buying from your own account) toward your position. The larger the percentage invested, the more aggressive your approach, the greater your potential return. The trade-off is that your degree of investment will come at the expense of other aspects of the game (ie. Impossible Trinity).
*Set a target for how much cash flow you will need weekly to reach your goals. For example, if you can generate 10 Bank a week, and you are willing to budget half toward acting as a Market Maker, that's 20 Bank a month, 240 Bank a year. Measure that against your card's potential appreciation over its Junk Value. With consistency, the compounded effect can be great over time.
*Capital formationis the lifeblood of effective Market Making. To be successful as a Market Maker, a player must be prepared to provide a strong and consistent stream of cash flow into their Bank. Time is always of the essence. Active purchases need to be made, positions need to be supported with Standing Bids, and a reserve needs to be plentiful and liquid to prevent retrenchment. Below is a break-down of the Top 250 cards with-in each rarity tier, which shows where the most lucrative bids can be found:
As the chart above shows, the cards that carry the most double and triple-digit Standing Bids are in the Legendary market. Having owned and sold every Legendary card that has been produced at some point, my experience has been that even those Legendary cards with single-digit Standing Bids, listed at deep discounts to their MV (and in rare cases at discounts to their JV) have consistently outperformed the return on almost all other rarities when placed into Auction. If your goal is to build Bank, this is where the money is.
*Reserve Banks & Treasury Accounts: In line with the challenges imposed by the Impossible Trinity, a Market Maker will need to find a way to mitigate saving and investing needs. I have found it helpful to dedicate separate accounts to this purpose. My Reserve Bank (Gold Crescent Alistan) exists to buy new positions of Farrakhan Season 2 with recurring Standing Bids (set at a Hard Peg) as well as handle general tasks (ie. fund undercapitalized puppets during card farming process). My Treasury account (FMM1) is structured as a pure Put against Farrakhan Season 1 and places recurring Standing Bids at a deep discount to MV (set at a Crawling Band). While the Reserve is purposely active, the Treasury is purposely passive. In both cases, I find it helpful to deposit sums into each account that are large enough (either through direct transfers or sustained farming campaigns) that the capital committed will last for a long time. The set it and forget it approach allows for both fiscal discipline and psychological freedom (knowing there is a backstop in place).
*Heisting: Going through the process of Card Farming, countless opportunities will abound to interfere with other players transferring Bank through the auction process. Placing a low Ask on a newly obtained card pulled via TCALS can reap large amounts of Bank in minimal time. While often easy money, I choose to abstain. People of all ages and experience levels engage in this hobby purely for enjoyment, and I take no pleasure in exploiting their moments of vulnerability. These heisting opportunities happen so frequently that I established a dedicated account to store these cards when pulled: FGWF(Farrakhan Good Will Foundation). If in time these cards develop attractive MV, I will add them to my wealth account. If a player contacts me and requests the card for strategic use, I usually just gift it to them. I find this approach to be more rewarding than taking Bank. Feel free to choose your own adventure.
*Developmental Stage: As your return on expense is most advantageous at the beginning of the Market-Making process (ie. when velocity is high, card supply is robust, and before your MV has shown much appreciation above JV), it is to your benefit to obtain copies for as low a price as possible, for as long as possible. With time, your ability to purchase at a slight premium to junk value will end, as other players will come to see your card as being a store of value. Players will then begin to either charge you at a premium above MV, or begin to hold your card for longer periods for appreciation or future intended sales. Over time, this can generate an expensive feedback loop. Try to resist the urge to realize true price potential too quickly while the supply of copies is plentiful, as doing so will come at the expense of raising your costs long before necessary.
*Law of Diminishing Returns: At a constant rate of investment, the percentage gains from building your card will decrease over time. The only way to change the math is to increase the amount of capital you are committing to your position. For example: if you build the MV of an Epic card from 5 to 10, you will reap a 100% return. Taking that same card from 10 to 15 will only reap a 50% gain from the same amount of time and capital being invested. This downward trend will only continue to accelerate without a change in the financing structure. Options include: i. increasing the base amount of savings into your Bank while still investing at the same percentage, ii. investing at a more aggressive percentage of Bank without a change in your base savings, or iii. increasing your base savings while also increasing the percentage rate of Bank investment.
*An Average Calculatorcan be used to plan out the effects of future transactions on your card's MV. It takes five sales to generate an effect, and beyond that, the average of your last 10 sales will be scored.
*Sequence of Order Execution: When the system calculates a card's MV, the initial sale will be scored as most recent, but when there are multiple transactions with various prices with-in a sale, the ordering of the other positions will prove haphazard (often with the lowest as scoring most recent). For this reason, it is to your advantage to initiate higher-priced transactions after a multi-sale auction concludes, as opposed to placing them in real-time during this type of auction. Example: You are buying your card from two players for 10, a new seller drops their ask for one of the Bids to 9. Wait until AFTER the auction ends to buy out the remaining higher Ask so it will be guaranteed to place as the most recent sale sequentially. This will benefit your card's MV calculation for a longer time.
*Counteracting Short Sales: Dealing with market hazards is the responsibility of any Market Maker. At times, players will choose to sell below your Standing Bid, which can reset your MV downward in the near-term. While this can appear disadvantageous at the outset, if you invest into your position at a constant rate, steep discounts can prove highly beneficial, lowering your overall cost basis, increasing your rate of return, and allowing for greater profit over time than there otherwise would be. This is one of the reasons why publicly traded companies will willingly enact stock splits. If this happens to your position, simply place a Direct Purchase (or series of purchases) above the intended original Bid price to even out the difference. For example, a Standing Bid of 5 is matched to an Ask of .01. The trade will settle at 2.5. In a subsequent transaction after that Auction ends, proactively sell the card to yourself from another account at 10 (target price of 5 (2)) and the algorithm will even out the MV back to your target price. If you are capital constrained, you can accomplish the same goal with a series of staggered purchases that trend upward at an affordable rate as savings recover over time.
*Saturation Points: In line with the challenges imposed by the Law of Diminishing Returns, a mature position can reach a point where it is Priced to Perfection, as very few owners outside of the Market Maker wish to transact. This can occur as new supplies of the card dry up, while existing copies offer owners a store of value that is decidedly more attractive than alternative cards on the market. A victim ts own success, very few 'better cards' exist within the marketplace for which owners want to sell to raise Bank, even with the incentive of extraordinarily high Standing Bids. At that point, it may be to the advantage of a Market Maker to encourage actions that will temporarily bring MV down (ie. Free Floating the position, coordinating Pull Events). While this may seem counter-intuitive, when a Market Maker is at a Saturation Point, a short-term retrenchment can reset conditions for a new campaign, with even greater future returns than can be found under the status-quo.
*Over-Extension: real-time market conditions may cause a Market Maker to spend more of their Bank capital than their liquidity levels can comfortably support. When this happens, the number of repeat Standing Bids that can be placed at MV decreases, a red flag for Owners who view the card as a store of value. Options for the Market Maker include i. Increasing base savings, ii. Decreasing the number of repeat Standing Bids, iii. Lowering the Bank amount placed behind the position to some percentage below current MV. Over-extension marks a period where retrenchment becomes more likely until savings are replenished
*Bank Insolvency: a far more severe and bearish condition than over-extension, a Market Maker's savings can become thoroughly exhausted to a point where Standing Bids can no longer be placed anywhere near MV, possibly not at all. Operations may or may not cease, as clear gaps become visible in both the time between new Standing Bids and the Bank amounts being placed in support behind them. A sale matched at a discount to MV may take a significant period to recover (possibly never) and it becomes likely that the card will trend toward a lower base, creating a negative feedback loop. Unless and until Bank savings are recapitalized, options for the Market Maker include i. Free-floating (allowing the card to trade for some time with either a token Standing Bid or without any Standing Bid at all) or ii. Total Capitulation (walking away from the position entirely). With time, a Market Maker can recover from Bank insolvency, but it is not guaranteed
*Managed Decline: if a Market Maker is planning to make a change to their system that is likely to decelerate operations (ie. less card farming, committing bank to alternate positions, playing the game less entirely) there are protective steps that can be taken to minimize damage to the card's MV. Options include i. placing a stream of deeply discounted Standing Bids to publicly set a known floor, ii. performing Open Market operations (buying from your account) at the discounted MV to re-establish some form of price support, and iii. making occasional Direct Market purchases when Standing Asks are listed at affordable prices. A Managed Decline marks a bearish period for the position, and while it can seem depressing, the power to one day reverse this condition always remains within the hands of the Market Maker.
*Taking Time-Off: Eventually, your level of motivation will decrease. Maybe you will achieve your overall MV and DV goals, and the game will become a less enjoyable pursuit. Or perhaps something in 'real-life' will take priority over your free time. Don't be afraid or feel guilty about your card losing value in the interim of your direct support. In the real world, even the best of publicly traded companies have experienced bad quarters with intervals when their MV trended downward. Periods of decline build a sense of character into the history of your performance as a whole. Personally, I prefer to play in stints, with a goal in mind that's tied to some form of end trigger. My first goal was a time limit to achieve Top Deck Value. I then took a break, only later to return with the new 100 copies challenge. I find that creating hard deadlines and knowing there is a finish line ahead, makes things more fun. At the end of the day, all a Market Maker ever needs to input a price that trends upward are copies of the card, capital to invest, and the talent/willingness to spend time playing. If the latter isn't there, you can always return and recover using the tools of the former when the stars align again.
Metrics To Access The Value of Market Maker Run Cards
*Amount of realized profit the Market Maker has produced for other players through direct purchases of the card
Total Return on Investment the Market Maker generates for other players who hold the card as a store of value
Total sales volume the Market Maker generates relative to other cards
Amount of Liquid Bank the Market Maker has committed to supporting the card
#, recency and amount of alternate Bids the Market Maker has placed into other positions
# of copies the Market Maker owns
# of trades behind the position
Recency of time between transactions
Four measures of Intrinsic Value (i. Junk Value, ii. Highest Standing Bid, iii. Projected MV after the sale at Highest Standing Bid, and iv. Projected MV after purchase at lowest Standing Ask)
Velocity (frequency of Find History)
Likelihood of Pull Event target/capacity to withstand
Likelihood of Short Target/capacity to withstand
Number/Diversity/Recency of Standing Bids
Standing Bids relative to Market Value
Standing Bids relative to Peers
Ways To Protect A Position
Hard Peg
Two factors to take into account when evaluating the strength of any given price peg are i. Standing Bid to Current Market Value and ii. Standing Bid to Junk Value. A Hard Peg involves placing a Put (Standing Bid) either at, very near, or above the current Market Value. This encourages sales to transact very close to MV. A Hard Peg is the most aggressive form of price support, creating a high incentive for players to sell directly to the Bidder, and requires the highest commitment of real-time Bank support to maintain continuously. When acting as a Market Maker, you can use the Impossible Trinity paradigm to structure the degree to which such an approach is feasible toward your overall goals, balancing Bank solvency, with liquidity to engage other positions.
Example: Season 2 Farrakhan (entirety)
When Season 2 began, I prioritized building a position using a Hard Peg at a Premium to Junk Value with the purchase price as low as the market would allow. In review, Farrakhan S2 has never traded below .58 (a slight premium to JV) and began trading six times JV (independent of my purchases) within its first three sales. For several weeks, I was able to build a position from other owners with a Hard Peg of 5 Bank (10 times JV of an Epic .5). With time, the Market Value would rise in line with the Hard Peg, which would lead owners to Ask at prices at a premium to MV (the premium over JV eventually ceased to be an attractive enough metric to entice sales).
Another factor that bids up a Hard Peg as Market Value rises is a Card's growing appeal as a future store of value. Meaning the development of a belief that future value will become greater than the present value of a sale at the current Standing Bid. A growing number of owners will begin to either ask for much higher prices (ie. 1,000, 10,000) and/or hold the position outright with no interest in selling, while other players begin to place standing competitive Bids for the card of their own.
To maintain a dominant position, a Market Maker must be prepared to deploy more capital (ie. multiple Bids at higher prices than other players are willing to pay) to Crowd Out other buyers. In my case, multiple Standing Bids of 6 slowly grew to 10, 15, 20, 25, 30, 35, 38. Standalone purchases would run as high as 50. Eventually, an equilibrium price would be found where many players would sell, while very few players would attempt to bid. Keep in mind, while you may have the funds to win every auction, there are times when doing so will be a Pyrrhic victory, as the process of winning a bidding war will raise your MV and your future purchasing costs. An additional background factor is that of time. With the conversion into a new season, the market of the future will no longer organically generate the card at the same rate it currently does, raising potential Market Value through scarcity.
In retrospect, a Hard Peg (at a premium to JV, and later at/near MV) was very successful in allowing me to build a large position in my card (at the time of this write-up, 110 copies). The trade-off was that I had to deploy a great deal of capital consistently, budget liquidity for an extended period, and artificially keep down the potential market value (which also sacrificed Deck Value appreciation). As I now play for the long-term, the exchange was worth it, your mileage may vary.
Crawling Band
This is a strategy used by a Market Maker to mix the price protection of a Peg with the discretionary spending flexibility of a Float. Multiple Standing Bids are placed at a percentage below the card's Market Value but are structured in such a way to preserve most of the position. This tactic can also be used in combination with a subsequent purchase at a price targeted well above the band to reset the MV to the intended target price. When done correctly, this will allow incoming purchases to be made at a discount, while staggering the MV upward with discretion, increasing the overall return on investment of the Market Maker.
Example: Season 1 Farrakhan (late 2020/early 2021)
In late December, I decided to revalue Farrakhan Season 1 upward to 822 MV (total investment was 8,224.50 Bank, nine 775 Buys, and one 1,249.50 Buy). In the process, I gained six additional copies and deposited four of the 775 buys into a Treasury account labeled FMM1(Farrakhan Market Maker 1) with the intent to pivot into a Crawling Band. I then immediately placed three Standing Bids from FMM1 at 500 Bank (a 48.7% discount to MV, but still among the highest Standing Bids in the entire market).
For several weeks, there were no transactions until a Pull Event, where all three of the 500 SBs were executed, and I followed up mid-auction with three additional purchases from my Farrakhan account at 1,250, 1,253, 1,200, along with a drop sale at 1,257.34 that was deposited back into FMM1. Total investment was 6,961.01 with six additional copies of the card gained, three at a substantial discount, and a substantial increase in Deck Value. My greatest efficiency using the technique was to absorb a 500 Standing Bid and then follow-up in a subsequent auction with two large purchases, 2,499.66 and 2,499.97. This resulted in a gain of three copies (one at a discount), increased my Deck Value over 30k, and allowed me to realize my return goal of taking Farrakhan S1 to double its old all-time high with the targeted 100th copy.
The numbers involved in these transactions are historically high, but the strategies can work for any player, working with any amount of capital. In an auction involving multiple purchases with a trend below your target, place and match the higher bids in a subsequent auction AFTER that auction concludes. This will allow you to input a better-recorded price (or ideally a series of higher prices) as the most recent sequentially and will cause the lower prices to drop from future MV recalculations first.
General advice for players considering the Crawling Band strategy:
i. Determine what percentage of your Total Bank you want to target toward building MV (ie. an account with 1,000 Bank, an investment commitment of 5% would create a price target of 50). Use the Impossible Trinity paradigm to weigh how conservative or aggressive you want to be in the context of your goals as a whole.
ii. Dedicate a Treasury account with Bank that is solely used to hedge the position with Standing Bids set at a discount to current MV. This will impose a sense of fiscal discipline into your campaign, and allow you the flexibility to explore other aspects of the game separately.
iii. After any purchase of a new copy of the card at a discount, use the Bank in your main account to purchase more cards at a premium that will net toward your intended MV target. Cash is king, budget maintaining levels of liquidity.
Free Float
A Free Float is when the Market Value of a Card is allowed to fluctuate without the participation of the Market Maker. This often creates a negative feedback loop of bearish sentiment, because the source of the position's buying support (Standing Bids from the MM) has been withdrawn. Uncertainty builds to the position's legitimacy as a store of future value. Standing Asks will often begin to appear that are priced below MV, and investors will begin cashing out to those Bidding at a discount. The Free Float can lead to a near-term price crash, but with time a new equilibrium will settle things down.
Example: Season 1 Farrakhan (late 2019)
My direct experience with a Free Float stems back from September 2019 to late December 2019. For four months, I took a hiatus from the game, and Season 1 Farrakhan was traded in the market without my placing a Standing Bid. My last purchase price was 47.50. From then on, there were eight independent transactions, ranging from 7.51, 15.01, 17.26, 16, 15.01, 15, 15.75, and 10.32. That is an average sale of 13.98, a 70.57% decline from the last sale with the Standing Bid I had provided. Yet despite the uncertainty, relatively few Owners vacated the position.
Does it make sense to retain or invest in a Card that was once supported by a Market Maker that has been placed into a Free Float? It's a gamble. In the immediate term, there could be strong downward pressure on MV as the fundamentals that drove that price upward has changed. However, if in the future the Market Maker returns with a new campaign, and talent, support, and capital investment rebound into the position, the return for those who purchased at a discount during the Free Float could be extraordinary. There is one player who purchased S1 Farrakhan during the above Free Float period, and later sold during a return campaign for a positive return of 5,063%! A calculated risk that paid off.
Closing Thoughts
This is a great hobby, and playing as a Market Maker has been a rewarding experience. The strategies discussed were fun to plan out and have helped me to achieve various goals that made the game worth playing. The journey (conceptualizing abstract thoughts into a game-plan, developing an infrastructure within a Random Number Generator framework) was much more rewarding than ultimately reaching a destination. While no balloons and confetti drop from the ceiling, I can always look back and smile when logging into NS.
On the flip side, I'm also happy I was able to share the wealth during this last campaign, making other players 'rich' with triple and quadruple-digit purchases:
I also appreciate the loyalty of those owners of my card who chose to buy/farm and hold with greatly enhanced Deck Values, especially those who held the position during the Free Float. I even have a love for my haters, who dream of deflating Farrakhan with an endless stream of .01 Asks. This is a game, it is healthy that people are inspired to compete and I never take it personally.
I hope this read was useful in some way. However long from now that you are reading this, the techniques discussed should remain evergreen in their application. Thank you to those at TNP and the Cards Symposium for the invite. From scripts to community structure, it never ceases to amaze me how many talented and generous people are a part of this great community. Stay safe, have fun, all the best!
Farrakhan
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[small][U][B]The Northern Lights[/B][/U][B]:[/B] [I]Beauty in Truth[/I]
Publisher: McMasterdonia :: Executive Editor: BMWSurfer
[I]The Northern Lights is produced by the Ministry of Communications on behalf of the Government of The North Pacific and is distributed by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs externally and by the Ministry of Home Affairs internally. Except where otherwise indicated, all content represents the views of the Government of The North Pacific.[/I]
[B][URL='https://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=352113']Index of issues[/URL][/align][/B]
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We are aware that not everyone is equally appreciative of image-based NS newspapers. As such, we've included the standard format mostly plain-text version of the newspaper in the spoiler below. We hope you enjoy reading this month's issue! If you have any questions, comments, concerns, or suggestions, feel free to contact the current TNP Minister of Communications [nation]PotatoFarmers[/nation].[/center]
[spoiler=Standard Version]
[IMG]https://forum.thenorthpacific.org/images/news_media/tnl_logo.png[/IMG]
[SIZE=7]Editor’s Note[/SIZE][/CENTER]
[RIGHT][I]by BMWSurfer, Minister of Communications[/I]
[/RIGHT]
[CENTER]Welcome to The Northern Lights.
Recently, The North Pacific hosted a Cards Symposium, a gathering for all members of the cards community. Featured in this edition of The Northern Lights iare five lectures and Q&A sessions with prominent members of the community. We hope you enjoy reading this issue!
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[SIZE=7]Note from the Minister of Cards[/SIZE][/CENTER]
[RIGHT][I]by DGES, Minister of Cards[/I][/RIGHT]
[CENTER]The 2021 Cards Symposium was a large-scale cards festival hosted by The North Pacific during the end of February. Activities relating to this festival were held throughout the span of 1 week, with minigames, guest speakers, and fully-fledged competitions comprising the majority of what took place during the Symposium.
The Symposium marked one of the very first festivals celebrating the cards minigame, with over 110 users attending the event and enjoying it in one way or another. An entire month was spent planning its release, so we hope that this issue of The Northern Lights provides you some perspective on what took place if you weren't there!
Happy reading~[/center]
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[SIZE=7]Q&A with Mikeswill[/SIZE]
[COLOR=#006400][B]Mikeswill:[/B][/COLOR] Welcome to the 2021 Card Symposium.
I would first like to give my thanks to The Infinite Hell-Sage Empire of Destructive Government Economic System for inviting me to share my experiences and opinions on this platform. I am truly humbled by the honor. It represents a degree of success in this endeavor based on much effort.
I do not have an agenda to promote. Instead I am willing to share my experiences in the Card realm over these two plus seasons. A brief history:
The initiation of the Card game during the April 1, 2018 limited period found me in an advantageous position given my long history of creating satellite Nations representing different points and interests in my Nation States life. As such I was able to move cards from these satellite Nations to my main resulting in a top 10 finish at the end of the first run.
When the game resumed in earnest I began as a Heister (a nation that undercuts a sell bid to gain profit); a Penny Bidder (a nation that raises buys in penny increments), and an inflator of Legendary cards (I pushed the price of Legendary cards to $10). The first two tactics brought ill-will and retaliation by a group of card players.
After a few combative conversations with Frisbeeteria I was invited to join a card Discord to the chagrin of many. It was via this Discord that I was able to evolve out my initial game-play and into a more community considerate style of play. Nevertheless, I was guilty of numerous antagonistic conversations for a period of time as I slowly evolved as a trader.
I learned about trade dropping – buying low and selling high on a trade. I learned how to protect a bank transfer after numerous times losing profits to heisters. (I used to transfer bank via 0.50 Rare sales). I learned how to create puppets to facilitate greater card/ bank and gain an advantageous position during pull events. And so it goes.
My intention, therefore, is not to present a position but rather to address any questions a Nation may have. Thus the format will be Q & A.
A few ideas for questions: How setting a reasonable goal can make card trading fun....Why Koem Kab is the only trader I completely trust? ... Dropping on Legendary trades: How to drop and why it is OK... How do I maintain my top 5 position without using scripts?
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [1]:[/B][/COLOR] That last one is interesting. How do you maintain your top 5 position without using scripts?
[COLOR=#006400][B]Mikeswill:[/B][/COLOR]This was a trick question. The answer is unwavering perseverance. I am a bit older than many of the players in NationStates and have had a difficulty understanding the creation and use of scripts or programming or coding or whatever it is called that automates or facilitates a more efficient manner of answering issues and junking cards for bank. So I work harder and longer ... one issue and one junked card at a time.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [2]:[/B][/COLOR]What do you mean by Koem Kab being the only trader you trust and why?
[COLOR=#006400][B]Mikeswill:[/B][/COLOR]In the course of relationships it is easy to create expectations only to be let down at some point. In the card game as in most speculative endeavors one seeks consistency and over the 2+ years of play Koem has been the most consistent trader that I have experienced. Moreover, from my experience, he has yet to act upon emotion over logic.
Other players, me included, have exhibited emotion reactions that go against expectation. Usually these are one time occurrences but they are enough to create doubt in future transactions.
Examples: getting heisted by a Nation who for months gave and received the courtesy of non-interference. Purposefully have one’s pull event blocked so as to deny the opportunity to obtain a card by a player who abused the same system many times over.
Players have changed tactics from time to time for whatever reason. I am not going to necessarily judge why an ally all of a sudden decides to interfere with a bank transfer but I will alter my trades in the future to minimize the interference. (I used to get mad and that will be discussed via a different Q & A.
On the other, Koem trades in Legendary cards as I do so we have a common goal: to maintain and grow the value of these cards. I know that in a bidding war he will have 4x my bank so if he decides he wants the card I am not going too far above MV without encouraging him to drop me. He seems to know that if I am bidding on a high priced Legendary I’m going to buy the card and will back off once MV has made. Even though we seldom if ever converse via telegram we seemingly give and take when a series of Legendary cards hit the market at below MV bids.
So I trust him. I trust him because it is always good to trust at least one other player.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [2]:[/B][/COLOR]How do you look at your trading style in the past and reflect on it today? What was your process for growth in that way?
[COLOR=#006400][B]Mikeswill:[/B][/COLOR]I am far more confident today than I was in the beginning. I began as a penny bidder and heister trying to win every trade for the sake of winning the trade. When I focused on a goal I was able to pin point the trades I wanted to be involved in. This took a degree of trial and error. Moreover, no one likes a penny bidder especially in the Legendary market. It can bring up antagonistic emotions and communications. So I quit being a penny bidder. I also realized that the market is incredibly large. It isn't necessary for me to try to get every card.
One more thing: If you see me buying a non-Legendary card I am probably moving the card from a pup to my main... that means I can inflate the card as high as I want because the bank is secure.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [3]:[/B][/COLOR]What would you say is a good goal to have when beginning as a trader? For this answer, please draw from your own learning experiences and/or mistakes when you were first starting out and explain how it translates to setting a reasonable goal, if you would.
[COLOR=#006400][B]Mikeswill:[/B][/COLOR]When Season 1 began in earnest Legendary cards were the most desired. Although I was in the top 10 in Deck Value, the number of Legendary cards I owned was nowhere near a complete set of 184 cards. Additionally, seven Legendary Nations had ceased to exist since the April 1st rollout making acquisition of those cards far more challenging. And so I set the goal of collecting every Legendary card.
What I found was that I was initially tentative in my trading. I was easily intimidated by players such as Koem Kab and Fris and The Northern Lights who had far more bank and better trade tactics. I can specifically recall needing to get the CTE Legendary Mindless Contempt and knowing that my 200.00 bid – the extent of my bank – would be surpassed before the trade was completed. It can become disheartening when you feel like other traders have the upper hand. And so I changed my goal.
Actually I changed my attitude. I decided that I was not going to allow another Nation intimidate my card play. I got realistic on the amount of bank necessary to successfully consummate whatever trade I wanted to participate in. I decided that I was willing to purchase at 10% above Market Value (sometimes even more) to get the card I desired. I didn’t concern myself with penny bidding in an effort to get the lowest purchase rather I attacked the trade at Market Value. In other words, I got serious about obtaining my goal. And to me that is the ultimate goal, to decide what you want and then go out and get it.
I see so many traders trading to get the best deal and then missing out on the card because they weren’t willing to go the extra 0.25 – the value of a pack. Just yesterday a player bought one of my S1 obscure Epics to beat me out of .01 while another player battled me when all the while they could have spent an extra .02 to get the card.
So to get to the question in more tangible terms: depending on which Region you reside in you might want to start with the goal of collecting every Regional member. I am thinking of collecting both S1 and S2 cards of every WA member in my region. Setting goals which are attainable can bring much satisfaction and in the process develops one’s ability to consummate trades and communicate with card holders in order to persuade them to sell.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [4]:[/B][/COLOR]1. Texan here, how long was your power out, lol
2. As someone looking to farm puppets for cards, how many puppets would you say is a good amount while not giving my life to the trade?
[COLOR=#006400][B]Mikeswill:[/B][/COLOR]1. My condo is near a Fire station so I only lost power for about 2 hours
2. I don't know the answer to the optimum number of puppets to have while still maintaining a real life outside NS. I have 345 active puppets. If I knew how to use scripts or whatever that is called I would probably be far more efficient than I am. I am certain that manually going through 345 pups a day takes up a lot of time.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [5]:[/B][/COLOR]Hi! As a mere enthusiast to this game I find the collecting satisfying, but the sociology fascinating. Though communicating through telegraphs is the clearest way to convey information, I find most interesting the concept of attempting to communicate through bidding alone. Watching players get scared off by a large jump in bids, frantically scouring their trades to see if a puppet of theirs has another copy, attempting to discourage people from penny bidding by immediately jumping to MV, watching people bid .01 below MV as though that number matters at all.
What have you found to be effective methods of conveying intent to other players while bidding (or asking)? How do you discourage those who seek a "good deal" from taking a card you genuinely want?
[COLOR=#006400][B]Mikeswill:[/B][/COLOR]The Sociology of assessing another player by the way they bid is an awesome study. If I see a player penny bidding I presume that their expectations and confidence levels are low... they probably lack sufficient bank to adequately buy cards they want and are playing a game of hope. A large counter bid will usually dissuade them. If a player tries to heist a bank transfer I find that I can wear them down by penny bidding the clock knowing that I have at least one other bank transfer card copy. (I did this to Momo on a Legendary trade an extended the trade for four hours). One of my projects has me buying up some cards and initially I fought off the other bidders by raising my Buy price to deny them the copy of the card. But in retrospect I am just over paying on a card that by the time I want to take advantage of my ownership position, the other player may cease to exist making their ownership moot. And then I use the old fashioned style of communication: I send a telegram. Be careful with telegrams... there are a lot of angry Nations out there.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [5]:[/B][/COLOR]Also, piggybacking off of [Event Participant #2], I assume you trust Koem Kab because their bids are consistent and clear, but do you think their complete monopolistic domination of the legendary market - essentially price fixing the entirety through plurality ownership - is detrimental to the competitive nature of auctions?
My questions are perhaps not technical enough for this Q and A.
[COLOR=#006400][B]Mikeswill:[/B][/COLOR]No. Keep in mind that though Koem owns 11,000 Legendary cards, r3n and I each own over 3,000 apiece. Thus Koem does not have a complete monopolistic domination of the market. Any player has access to the market and is no way curtailed from being successful in the market bank permitted. Whereas I am probably a Democratic Socialists at heart, I have no issue with someone like Koem utilizing his means and talents to arrive at his level of success especially where no one else is denied the same opportunity. I am a perfect example. I have successfully collected every S1 and S2 Legendary without any barriers.
As to the second point - the competitive nature of auctions – Koem has shown far more constraint in maintaining the status quo. The competitive nature of auctions is a myth. Either you have sufficient bank to obtain the card you want or you don’t. The fact that you can pull the desired card removes any barrier to competition. Koem doesn’t arbitrarily inflate Legendary cards (That was Noah in 2020). He simply attempts to maintain the current MV but will aid the inflation of a Legendary on a trade by trade basis as will I.
Now the purposeful inflation of common cards to artificially raise one’s DV as detrimental... :)
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [5]:[/B][/COLOR]Ahh, my question was worded poorly. I mean that Koem does not have to abide by the same issues of competition that I do when bidding on a legendary. They are able to undercut/drop any player on nearly any legendary; the result being that even obscene deals (such as when 9003 accidentally dropped [Zamri1138] for 2 instead of 20) go to Koem by default, and are frequently uncontested. I can do that with my own card and a few others, but they have domination in this respect to (nearly) the entire legendary market. I find the frenzy of bidding on a good deal to be exciting and fun, but don't bother on legendaries because the end result is known.
[COLOR=#006400][B]Mikeswill:[/B][/COLOR]You might want to ask yourself why are you so consumed with Koem Kab at the detriment of your own personal goal... I am not picking on you alone. I think man has an innate nature to criticize the highly successful and thus legitimize their own self-inflicted victimization. For instance: your complaint about Koem in the Legendary market could easily be applied to me. I have sufficient power and bank in that market to dominate any trade. But because I am #3 in the game I don't get the same negative attention that KK does. I am also amused by the frenzy of greed when someone purposefully or not places a low Ask on a Legendary... it means bank for me because if I get to the card before Koem I will drop you and then the ensuing outrage by the player who got dropped is delightful. Because it is outrage based on emotional greed. Keep that in mind in the future. I have been busy with a project so my involvement in the day to day Legendary market has waned but I will be back soon!
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [5]:[/B][/COLOR]I think my comments on Koem came off as antagonistic instead of esoteric. I don't mind them as a player at all, I was trying to get your thoughts on how monopolies and oligarchies skew the market and was using my experience as a comparison, not a complaint. I'm not much of a legendary hound, just trying to compare how market forces are asymmetrically applied to different players. Thanks for your answers!
[COLOR=#006400][B]Mikeswill:[/B][/COLOR][Reacts with sunglasses emoji]
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [6]:[/B][/COLOR]As someone who has been active since the beginning, what is the most enjoyable facet of the card game for you?
I sometimes forget the connection between cards and the nations behind them. Do you place value on cards of players you have a good relationship with? Or are there cards you value due to memorable events (like first Legendary find)?
[COLOR=#006400][B]Mikeswill:[/B][/COLOR]The most enjoyable facet was and is the increased interaction with other game players. Prior to the card game I was basically just keeping my region going as the longest serving WA Delegate in the history of the game (15+ years). Because of the streak I was still active but isolated to my region. I don't participate in the Security Council because I find it either a popularity contest or a travesty to the game mechanics. The General Assembly has gotten incredibly stale as Nations write Resolutions for personal recognition and then Repeal the a week later. (I truly believe that there should be a 6 month wait time before Repeals can be considered). So when the card game arose it gave me the opportunity to branch out far beyond the confines of my nest. I have built relationships with Nations from many Regions reminding me of the joy I had in my first year in the game where players from across the globe engaged. In December I decided to blow past the constraints of Deck Capacity. This has allowed me to increase my collection from < 2,000 to over 15,000 cards giving me the opportunity to collect cards of Nations I have appreciated as players but whose card value might have not fit the prior limitation of deck space.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [7]:[/B][/COLOR]What tactics should you be aware of when you try to card flip in Nationstates?
[COLOR=#006400][B]Mikeswill:[/B][/COLOR]I'm not sure what card flipping is. If that is the Buying low and Selling high trade style I am not a participant as it has no long term return for me. I am mostly a collector of Legendary cards. I will drop on any Legendary trade where I can garner a 5.00 profit or more. Now I do see players buying low on my CTE S1 Common transfer cards thinking they are going to get the 4.00 MV price at some point in the future not realizing that every historical trade has been made between me and my pups. It is the same with Buying inflated Commons thinking that because the card is at 200.00 someone is going to Buy at 50.00. This is Fool's Gold... a waste of bank because eventually the card, if traded, will only decrease in value.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [1]:[/B][/COLOR] With people obviously hoping a Season 3 comes out this year, what can you do to increase the rarity of your potential future card?
[COLOR=#006400][B]Mikeswill:[/B][/COLOR]I have no idea. I am certain I will never be a Legendary because my activities in this game over 17 years tends to go against the grain of the the elite. I think that writing proposals might help. Maybe write a bunch of inane Security Council resolutions and the Repeal them a week later might get you a higher Rarity. Some folks try to manipulate the acquisition of badges. If that is your choice check out this link: [URL]http://www.mwq.dds.nl/ns/results/[/URL] - I just play the game. I was Commended once and then that was repealed out of spite. Other players have tried to both Commend and Condemn me I guess to help increase my card rarity which I have appreciated.
Oh, and S3 will never happen.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [8]:[/B][/COLOR]I've noticed that you have valid concerns regarding whether Season 3 will ever occur, but if we were to be hypothetical and say that Season 3 decided to appear, what do you believe are some of the most important things players should do in order to prepare for the upcoming season?
[COLOR=#006400][B]Mikeswill:[/B][/COLOR]I'm not planning on doing a thing different specifically to plan for Season 3. I know some players have stocked puppets with packs waiting to open them at the time. I don't understand that logic. If S3 is inevitable them S2 cards will become rarer thus why hold onto packs for the future when you can open those packs and replenish them. I am doing something completely separate regarding S2 cards which will mean nothing if S3 doesn't occur. When S3 does begin I will try to get a list of the Legendaries and begin collecting them.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [9]:[/B][/COLOR]Oh, one thing I've been meaning to ask you. It's a very little thing but I'm curious. Why did you decide to bid one cent above junk value on all your puppets' cards? I rarely see others do that - whenever I see a 0.06 bid on an uncommon I almost immediately know it's yours :P
[COLOR=#006400][B]Mikeswill:[/B][/COLOR]I want to incentivize the Seller by bidding above junk. I know that in S1 I never sold at junk, instead taking the bank immediately instead of waiting an hour. I have since changed that policy giving someone else the opportunity to raise the Buy price.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [9]:[/B][/COLOR]Yeah - I can understand not bidding at JV. As small of an increase over JV as it is, the logic seems to follow from my experience. A lot of people do not honor JV bids.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [10]:[/B][/COLOR]Any advice for starter traders who are struggling to earn bank? Further, do you have insight on how to maintain the collection bank balance?
[COLOR=#006400][B]Mikeswill:[/B][/COLOR]One aspect of trading power is a decent Bank and building bank while building a collection is obviously counter-productive. What helped my in S1 was pulling a Farakhan and then selling it at peak which at the time was 800.00. Back then my goal was to never fall to 200.00. This season I have adjusted that figure to 2,000.00 (inflation). In order to do that it takes discipline to stop buying until such time your comfort threshold is met. On that note I am always rather amused when a Nation pulls a Legendary and immediately sells for less than MV. With players like KK and me, said player might get half the bank between his ask and MV. This is a short term satisfaction over long term gratification. Either wait for a MV trade or create interest by having a puppet but at MV.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [6]:[/B][/COLOR]With collecting legendaries, do you focus on building your ownership of any particular cards? Like CTEs or high value, or do you have any other landmarks you're working towards?
[COLOR=#006400][B]Mikeswill:[/B][/COLOR]Good question. As I already own every Legendary card I get to pick and choose which cards I will continue to buy. It is almost a guarantee that I will buy any Legendary whose MV is above 50.00. I do like S1 CTE Commons but as I have 5,000 already I'm not buying though I do have a project in the works which will see me move all of those cards to my main. In doing so I could buy extras. I am thinking of collecting every WA Nation in my Region. Since they have each endorsed me I ought to appreciate them more. I seem to be acquiring copies of my pups for future prosperity and am currently moving my S1 Epics to my main. Any card Gio has a 2.00 bid on goes to Utmost Brownies until such time as it is inflated and then gets sent to MikesHope - currently with 20K DV.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [6]:[/B][/COLOR]You mentioned how blowing past your deck capacity opened up your deck to larger and more personal collections. Can you talk about your thought process behind making that decision, and perhaps how others should face that decision?
[COLOR=#006400][B]Mikeswill:[/B][/COLOR]It simply made financial sense. I kept to my deck space limit of 2,000 cards into December 2020. Keep in mind I had to pay extensive bank to reach this amount although my starting point from the initial April 1 was extensive. Most serious traders I know had long passed their deck capacities giving them an advantage for growing their DV. What I had to over come was my previous comfort in being able to Gift high bank Legendary cards to my main and how to move future bank to my main. So I observed what other players were doing and gave it a go.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [9]:[/B][/COLOR]I realized semi recently that I’m sort of in the same position. My deck capacity is currently 900 and I’ve just started a collection that will assuredly cause me to think twice about expanding it any more. What are some things you’d recommend for those of us who are in the process of making that switch? I suppose, what are the things you observed people doing that made you feel comfortable with making the switch?
[COLOR=#006400][B]Mikeswill:[/B][/COLOR]My greatest challenge was transferring bank as I used 30 CTE cards in rotation. I had to get comfortable transferring large bank (500.00) in small increments (4.00). I watched Gio's inflationary tactics to get comfortable with large bank transfers. Additionally, I had a lot of S1 Commons that I knew would benefit me in the future but I didn't want to put them on the mark. Instead I moved 100 Legs to puppets, Gifted the 100 Commons, and then rebought the Legs - inflated of course. As such, I do my small transfers to MikesHope and Mikes Faith and then my large transfer at a later time. It also meant that I needed to be comfortable with my Bank spread amongst these Nations. All in all it is working out quite nicely.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [9]:[/B][/COLOR]That's good to hear. Definitely the piggybacking and transferring large amounts of bank and cards from my storage nations to my main is the part that I'm most hesitant about. I have over 100 copies between the three different cards I use for mass copy transfers, so I'm not really worried about that bit, but the large amounts of bank and stuff about transferring legs is very helpful. Thanks a lot!
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[SIZE=7]Q&A with W&S[/SIZE]
[COLOR=#006400][B]W&S:[/B][/COLOR] Hi everyone and welcome!
Firstly, I’d like to give a huge THANK YOU to DGES for inviting me to speak at this event, and to 9003, McMasterdonia, Noah, and everyone else who was involved in making this possible. It is an incredible honor for me, as such a new trader, to be featured as a guest speaker at an event like this, and I am so incredibly grateful for the opportunity.
In many ways, this talk is going to be a contrasting viewpoint to Mikeswill’s, who spoke before me. We have very different backgrounds and the goal of this talk is both to provide a contrasting point of view and approach, as well as give new traders a chance to ask whatever questions they might have about how to either start out or transition into large-scale farming. While Mike and I have both been around NS since well before cards (though even there he has about a decade’s headstart on me), Mike has been involved in cards since day one, whereas I only picked up the trading card game in November. Mike does not really use scripts; I have been almost completely dependent on them to rise quickly. It is a good contrast, because while we have similar approaches to some aspects of the game, we have achieved our goals in very different ways. Though we oppose each other in other parts of NS, I have tremendous respect for his persistence and dedication and his commitment to honorable and respectful trading.
So what follows is my card origin story:
On November 26, 2020 I had about 5 bank worth of cards. I occasionally opened packs on my main, but I wasn’t really into it. I was playing on the TRR Minecraft server and putting most of my energy into that. The next day, November 27, some who were on the server (Dakota, Sakana, and Jamie among others) mentioned a pull event was going on.
What is a pull event? They didn’t tell me much except to answer issues on as many puppets as fast as I could and open packs.
So, like a total idiot, I joined in. I started furiously answering issues, manually, on all my puppets. And then, like magic (ha), a S1 Aleisyr appeared.
That was all it took. I was addicted to card farming. The feeling of opening legendary cards and getting so much bank for them was just… especially in government-mandated lockdown, it was that rush of serotonin I had so desperately been missing. It was truly an addiction. And even more so, just like in defending, I wanted to go as fast as humanly possible. Within a few days I discovered scripts, and within a couple of weeks I had tripled the size of my puppet army.
I documented my climb up the ladder. I achieved top 50 global in one month and top 20 global in 2 months. Currently I sit at number 18 on the global leaderboard, with a peak rank of #17. It was a torrid ascent up the rankings - 9003 commented recently that he had not seen anyone climb to page one of the rankings so quickly since the early days of cards.
Along the way, I also gained a reputation for two other things: collecting every single Season 2 legendary card within just a few weeks, and refusing to use MV inflation to maintain or gain deck value. Some others have ascended faster than me, only to see their deck value plummet as the cards that were propping them up deflated. Others have managed, through diversification and creativity, to maintain that ranking, but the community should know by now that I’m not a fan of inflated commons either way. But I digress. That is my story and my claim to fame.
But that is quite enough about me.
I just gave that introduction so y’all can know a little about my background and my position as a trader. But one of my biggest goals in this game is to help new traders access the market and cards they might not have the time or means to grind for. So now I want to hear from you! What do you want to know? I want this to be a no-judgment, no-question-is-dumb, new-trader-friendly space where you can ask me anything about how I gained deck value so quickly, what strategies I used in auctions, or what you can do to either start out in card trading, or make the transition from new player to elite trader.
So with that, enough of my ranting and raving. Let the Q&A begin! I will be happy to answer any questions today, tomorrow, up to the end of the event, or even after.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [1]:[/B][/COLOR] Would you farm if you were away from your computer and on your phone or another device without your scripts?
[COLOR=#006400][B]W&S:[/B][/COLOR] It would certainly be hard for me to keep my interest or have as many nations as I do now. When I started one of the main reasons I switched to scripts was because I went on a huge dry spell without finding any pull event cards or any legendaries at all in around 400 nations. I was really demotivated by that and I wanted to find a point at which my luck would sort of average out.
Still, I think my perspective has changed somewhat now. When I started I farmed to try and get cards; now I farm to get bank. That I think is something a lot of new players could learn from - and something that might keep me motivated in a world where I didn't have scripts. Farming is best for getting bank, not cards.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [2]:[/B][/COLOR] How were you motivated to do cards for that long?
[COLOR=#006400][B]W&S:[/B][/COLOR] I had goals. They were lofty goals, but I was making measurable progress. As long as I was making progress that I could see, I continued to be motivated. Every time I added a S2 legendary to the collection or passed another person in DV, it only fueled my desire to reach higher.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [3]:[/B][/COLOR] When you talk about respectful trading, what are some tips you'd give to newer traders so that they don't accidentally (and unintentionally) step on anyone's toes?
[COLOR=#006400][B]W&S:[/B][/COLOR] The main thing is paying attention to who is taking part in the auction and what you know about them. Is it a main and a known puppet of theirs? Do they have a standing, unmatched bid? Is it a collector trying to buy a card that you don't also need for a collection?
In general it is okay to make mistakes and accidentally step on people's toes, and a lot of the big players will understand if a new player doesn't know. Usually you'll know if that's happened when you get a telegram or a discord ping from someone like "hey that's my transfer". :P
As long as you acknowledge the mistake, the no-harm-no-foul rule applies if you correct it and don't make a habit of getting in the same person's way repeatedly.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [4]:[/B][/COLOR] How do you find time for cards during the day? Do you go and sit and do all daily card stuff at once? Or split it into few parts? Do you have any tips (other than gold retriever and issue script) to save time during doing cards?
[COLOR=#006400][B]W&S:[/B][/COLOR] It really depends on the day. Some days, especially when I'm not working at my IRL job, I will spend hours at a time just spamming enter for as long as I feel like. But more recently I have found that for the sake of my personal health and well-being, especially as the days get warmer here in Austria, I've been splitting it up, so I'll do however many I want, then go outside or walk or go to the store, then come back and finish whatever card work I was doing that day.
I'll also often combine tasks; like when I'm doing a mass-copy transfer, I'll usually also do some farming to both condense the tasks into the same timeframe while also having a chance to TCALS another copy of the card.
Hotkeys are really helpful. If you don't have 9003's hotkey tool, get it. Pressing F to flip, J to junk etc is way faster than clicking. :P
I also like to place "reminder asks" on low-owner commons or uncommons I think would make good piggyback-transfer cards, so if I find a second copy of it I will see that I own another copy of that card, and then be able to hold onto both copies in the inevitable eventuality that I need to start doing a lot more piggybacking (when I run out of deck space).
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [4]:[/B][/COLOR] And a bonus question:
Do you open your packs asap or do you collect them and open when you have X amount? What is more satisfying to you? :D
[COLOR=#006400][B]W&S:[/B][/COLOR] I always open packs right away. Saving packs is pointless for me. I get that some people wanna save them for S3, I just don't feel the need to.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [5]:[/B][/COLOR] (Who knows if we’re even gonna get a S3 tbh.)
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [4]:[/B][/COLOR] Oh and didn't mean S3. Rather like - do you prefer to eat one cookie a day or a cake at the weekend? :D
[COLOR=#006400][B]W&S:[/B][/COLOR] Farming is eating the whole cake for me. I need that serotonin immediately. :P
I have so many nations that farming by itself is the cake, lol.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [1]:[/B][/COLOR] How's the S1 Legendary Collection going?
[COLOR=#006400][B]W&S:[/B][/COLOR] 55/184. Been on a bit of a hiatus lately. Trying to kick it back into gear soonish. S1 legendaries are HARD O.o
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [1]:[/B][/COLOR] Meanwhile me at 18..
[COLOR=#006400][B]W&S:[/B][/COLOR] LOL :P yeah I did add another to the collection just now! TUMS sniped one of them because I wasn't looking but I'm ok with not fighting TUMS all the time, lol.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [1]:[/B][/COLOR] What's your preferred method of transfer?
[COLOR=#006400][B]W&S:[/B][/COLOR] Mass copy. 100% mass copy is my favorite.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [4]:[/B][/COLOR] What is flipping?
[COLOR=#006400][B]W&S:[/B][/COLOR] Flipping has two meanings. Flipping over the cards when you open the pack is what I was talking about.
But flipping also means buying a card for a low price and immediately turning around and listing it for higher.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [4]:[/B][/COLOR] Oh, then I'm weird. I open packs, don't flip and keep opening packs until I open all without looking at cards so I have a nice surprise if I get a TEP Card / high MV / Leg ;D
[COLOR=#006400][B]W&S:[/B][/COLOR] Ah, you're like HS then. HS does the same thing.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [1]:[/B][/COLOR] How does your timezone affect your pull event availability?
[COLOR=#006400][B]W&S:[/B][/COLOR] For US based pull events it is usually quite good. Most take place in the afternoon in the US, which is evening for me. Perfect. But evening in the US is like 3 A.M. for me usually :P
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [1]:[/B][/COLOR] If you're in a pull event who has time to look at what you pull? Lol.
[COLOR=#006400][B]W&S:[/B][/COLOR] Me because I need that rush.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [4]:[/B][/COLOR] If you could speak to yourself from time when you started doing cards, what advice would you give yourself?
[COLOR=#006400][B]W&S:[/B][/COLOR] Ooooo, that is a good question. The biggest piece of advice would be to not beat myself up over losing out in an auction or going on a long streak without a particular card. On that note, maybe the best answer is that farming is for getting bank, not cards. One of the most demotivating things as I was starting out as a trader was going on long dry streaks without finding a legendary or a card of the type I wanted. On the one hand it made me hungry to make more puppets, but in that quest I may have overextended myself from time to time.
When you farm cards, really you are farming bank to buy the cards you want. Bank is the most important piece of leverage in auctions and the most important thing when it comes to doing what you want to with cards. It does feel good to get that card you want in a pack, but just like IRL TCGs (i was a semi competitive magic the gathering player for a while), it is usually far easier and cheaper to just buy the card. Unless there is a pull event. Pull events are the exception. :P
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [1]:[/B][/COLOR] How's TSP's card program going?
[COLOR=#006400][B]W&S:[/B][/COLOR] It's good! Got a little slowed down because Vietnam and I were both running for Cabinet, but we are expecting it to kick back into high gear here in the extremely near future. I've put several thousand bank's worth of cards and bank into it, and I'm really excited for what we will be able to offer in terms of programming and rewards for those who join. We've spent a ton of time and energy planning this and I think it will go really well.
(That is also the main reason for the hiatus I mentioned in the answer to your previous question.)
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [4]:[/B][/COLOR] How do you suggest one should prepare for a pull event? I've never participated in one so any advice is probably cool :D
[COLOR=#006400][B]W&S:[/B][/COLOR] Make sure all your nations have 5 issues and then just answer them! The most important thing is having a full slate of issues, not card packs, because TCALS only works for a very short time after you receive the pack. You need to open it right away in order to have a chance to pull the card at auction.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [4]:[/B][/COLOR] Oh interesting. I didn’t know that.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [6]:[/B][/COLOR] Do you get your DV from magic?
[COLOR=#006400][B]W&S:[/B][/COLOR] Yes.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [6]:[/B][/COLOR] Knew it.
Abra cadabra, summonus Testlandus!
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [1]:[/B][/COLOR] Testlandia's DV just plummeted 100 bank >>>
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [4]:[/B][/COLOR] I’ma try that.
Abra cadabra, sommonus Xorietus!
[COLOR=#006400][B]W&S:[/B][/COLOR] Sad she isn’t here :’(
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [1]:[/B][/COLOR] What do you believe is key to driving regional engagement in cards?
[COLOR=#006400][B]W&S:[/B][/COLOR] Accessibility, approachability, and good incentives for participation. I think that is one of the things that has gotten people to be interested in TSP's org - we've kept our cards planning channel pretty open to people who want to help out, and we've run giveaways and especially pull events already on rare and unique cards that aren't often featured. So it gives people a chance to get something they wouldn't have been able to get otherwise. And that is a really big part of driving interest, I think.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [7]:[/B][/COLOR] Who got you into cards?
[COLOR=#006400][B]W&S:[/B][/COLOR] That is a little complicated. Certainly the event that sent me off the deep end was TNP's Aleisyr pull event, which I believe you, Dakota, and Sakana told me I should try. But there is a laundry list of people that were prodding me to try it for a while - you three and HumanSanity were probably the ones that did the most damage though. :P
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [4]:[/B][/COLOR] HS does cards? o.O
[COLOR=#006400][B]W&S:[/B][/COLOR] "Does cards" is a strong way of phrasing his tendency to lie dormant for weeks at a time until he decides to wake up and pull 6 copies of a card without realizing it in a pull event.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [8]:[/B][/COLOR] Other than Legendaries, are there other cards that you're interested in collecting?
[COLOR=#006400][B]W&S:[/B][/COLOR] I will be doing a collection for Founderless in season 3. Otherwise - usually I just collect friends and prominent defenders and gameplayers. And my own Season 1 puppets. A ton of my nations have S1 ex-nation flags. :P
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [9]:[/B][/COLOR] Considering that the market is only increasing, do you think the barriers of entry (into the market) are also only increasing?
[COLOR=#006400][B]W&S:[/B][/COLOR] Certainly the barriers to gaining ranks quickly are increasing as more traders get interested and the inflation meta is taking over. And Season 1 cards are much harder to come by than they were even a few months ago. But Season 2 cards, especially legendaries, are continuing to balloon in supply, so it is actually getting (IMO) far easier to collect sought-after cards, since supply is only going up for Season 2.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [10]:[/B][/COLOR] How to get Testlandia?
[COLOR=#006400][B]W&S:[/B][/COLOR] IDK, just farm more :P - I pulled one today.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [10]:[/B][/COLOR] Oh this isn't Card Google, sorry.
[COLOR=#006400][B]W&S:[/B][/COLOR] It’s ok; I’m used to being treated like a search engine :’o
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [10]:[/B][/COLOR] What do you recommend for players like me who are currently not really farming but want to up their card game?
[COLOR=#006400][B]W&S:[/B][/COLOR] So the main thing before you really get going is ask yourself what you want to do. What are your goals? What sort of cards do you want to collect? Do you just want to focus purely on deck value? Or is there a rarity of card you like? Or a region? Or a flag? These are all questions that can guide you. The thing that really got me going was having concrete and achievable DV, rank, and collection goals. I said OK I want top 500 by X date - got that, now I want top 10 TSP by x date, and I wrote these things down. I still have a note in my phone with all my rank milestone dates.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [9]:[/B][/COLOR] How many farms are considered "bare minimum" for someone who is attempting to start farming a decent collection (of say...all nations in a 100+ member UCR)? Or, in your opinion, this minimum doesn't exist?
[COLOR=#006400][B]W&S:[/B][/COLOR] I don’t think there really is a minimum - you can achieve something like that with very few nations. The number of farms you have only affects the speed with which you get the necessary bank and cards, not your ability to collect them.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [9]:[/B][/COLOR] So if I can't collect cards like everyday, maybe I could consider having more puppets? (To make up for it?)
[COLOR=#006400][B]W&S:[/B][/COLOR] I mean, that depends on the time you want to dedicate to it. If you want to put a lot of hours into farming every day and collecting cards quickly, absolutely. If you only have a little bit of time, then having 1000 nations to farm every single day probably isn’t feasible.
One of the reasons I was able to go so ham in December and January is because I had an absolutely insane amount of time and not much else to do with it. I couldn’t leave my apartment except to walk along the river and go to the grocery store.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [8]:[/B][/COLOR] Having completed the S2 Legendary set, and not being a mass hoarder of the entire rarity, what is your approach to selling duplicate copies received from farming? I understand the "Farrakhan" approach to dump for whatever bids are present contributes to deflation and newbies getting dropped by KK/Mikeswill. Though I've also seen asks below MV sitting for weeks (either unwanted or unknown about). Does a middle-path exist, or what thoughts do you have on selling Legendaries?
[COLOR=#006400][B]W&S:[/B][/COLOR] My approach to selling is that I basically keep all the cards unless I see that someone is looking for one, or I see a reasonable bid. There are only a few legendary cards that I hoard - notably Glen-Rhodes and Pencil Sharpeners 2. otherwise I just keep what i find unless someone is specifically looking for them.
Eventually I will look to increase my market share on a lot more legendary cards, but that is a long way off. I've moved on to collecting Season 1 legendary cards for now.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [8]:[/B][/COLOR] Mikeswill has mentioned how blowing past their deck limit has allowed them to gather more cards of their friends. You said you want to collect your friends' cards, do you intend to blow past your deck limit?
[COLOR=#006400][B]W&S:[/B][/COLOR] Basically the only reason I increased my deck limit for a while is because it made it easier to send myself legendary cards and others I liked that I got from farming. I don't anticipate doing that for much longer - I plan to use one of my existing nations as a storage nation for bank, transfer cards, etc, and then start transferring things to my main. I think the magic number will be 1000 cards - once I hit that I will stop increasing my deck limit and just blow past it.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [11]:[/B][/COLOR] What would be your advice to any new players that want to collect all legendaries?
[COLOR=#006400][B]W&S:[/B][/COLOR] Great question! First thing is that you need bank and a lot of it. Yes, it's possible to get most of the legendaries by farming, but that takes a lot of time and you can't collect them all that way.
Unfortunately, buying legendaries means dealing with a lot of traders who have a lot more resources than you. Mostly Koem Kab and Mikeswill, but also flippers, MV sharks, and others looking to make money. The most important thing for legendary auctions is to know that you will almost always be at a disadvantage in terms of leverage, and will thus need to know how and when to cut your losses.
My favorite strategy, because I have a strong distaste for long auctions, was to match a below-MV ask, and then whenever KK or someone else with a leverage advantage showed up and overbid me, just bid straight to MV and allow them to drop me there. Thus I would get the card at or near its market value, and they would make a profit from the drop. Everyone gets what they want.
The golden rule is to never, ever, ever bid more than you are willing to buy a card for, and likewise never, ever, ever ask less than you are willing to sell a card for. That is how you lose money.
Still, for some high value CTE cards like Ramaeus, Caelapes, NERVUN, Altmer Dominion, Drasnia, etc., pull events are your best friend. Those cards are extremely expensive because they are well-known players who CTEd, and thus quantities are limited. Finding sellers is hard, and when someone is willing to sell it is often for very high prices.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [11]:[/B][/COLOR] You said that the best way is to match a below-MV ask first, then allow people to drop you. What if there isn't an ask below MV? What should people do then?
[COLOR=#006400][B]W&S:[/B][/COLOR] If there isn't an ask below MV, you are often safe from getting dropped. Koem Kab usually does not get involved in auctions going on at or slightly above MV.
If the auction is significantly above MV (say, a Season 1 legendary with an MV of 25 that is being sold for 50), he will often placea bid and ask of his own to inflate the card, but he will not fight or drop you. He is only inflating his own deck value more by creating a second match, so for your sake it's benign.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [12]:[/B][/COLOR] [In response to Event Participant #11’s question] Get a friend (or several) with farms that are willing to donate spares to you. ;P
[COLOR=#006400][B]W&S:[/B][/COLOR] Having friends helps a LOT. :P
I got Ramaeus, Altmer Dominion, Nova Hollandia, and several other hard-to-find ones from gifts. And YOU gifted me my Soops. <_<
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [13]:[/B][/COLOR] For Season 3, do you think we can expect an increase or decrease in legendary cards?
[COLOR=#006400][B]W&S:[/B][/COLOR] That’s a really good question. I think in the short term Season 2 legendaries will go up, but there are so many copies of most of them that I don’t know how far. The thing about the S2 leg market is that there is just so much supply especially compared to S1. I notice this the more and more I try to hunt for season 1 legs - supply simply far outpaces demand in the S2 market.
Still, if the continuous influx of new copies slows, we can at least expect the general deflation to slow as well.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [12]:[/B][/COLOR] [In response to Event Participant #13’s question] Do you mean the value of legendaries or the number of them in circulation? Going by previous seasons, they're fixed at 0.1% of all nations at the time of the snapshot, so we'll be seeing ~240 of them for S3 based on the current number of nations.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [13]:[/B][/COLOR] Number in circulation; sorry if that was unclear.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [12]:[/B][/COLOR] No, your question was clear; I wouldn't have assumed you were talking about value. :P
[COLOR=#006400][B]W&S:[/B][/COLOR] Oh, sorry. I did assume it was the value. I was also extremely tired and had drank about half a bottle of wine that evening. :P
But [Event Participant #12] is right. Both previous seasons had 0.1% of all cards as legendary. So I would expect a significant increase for S3.
[hr]
[SIZE=7]Q&A with The Salaxalans[/SIZE]
[COLOR=#006400][B]The Salaxalans:[/B][/COLOR]
**Potatoes and Branding**
*"When you are the potatoes guy everyone is like, 'Yeah, it's the potatoes guy!'" - Max Barry*
Welcome one and all to the Potato portion of the Cards Symposium! Thank you to the North Pacific Card Guild for hosting this Symposium, and thank you to DGES for inviting me to speak on a most important topic. There can never be enough potatoes, after all!
For those of you who don’t know me, I’ve been playing NS since late 2012, with most of my time spent in Spiritus. I was always friendly with people from outside the region, and Spiritus had some minor prominence in assorted NS events. Then, five years ago, the first Secretary-General election occurred. I saw that the event had begun, and had the following sequence of thoughts: “Oh an election! I should run! Hmm… What should my campaign be… Uh… Potatoes!!!” And thus a brand was born. I spent the entire election screaming nonstop about potatoes, narrowly losing in the final round. From this point on, potatoes were a frequent theme for me and by extension Spiritus. Our government now has assorted potato-themed titles, in NS events we usually have a potato-themed name, in the second Secretary-General election I was Kuriko’s running mate and potatoes became featured prominently in the platform, and recently in Spiritus we even held a potato pardon where I drew faces on two potatoes and everyone in Spiritus could vote on which to pardon. The other, unfortunately, was smashed with a hammer.
Of course, potatoes are a silly thing to base an identity on. But that’s exactly why it works: potatoes are simple, kind of funny, easy to grasp. Taking an idea and running with it to the furthest extent possible until you are entirely associated with it, that gives you an identity so that people know who you are even if you’ve never met. Spiritus and I have embraced the potato as a symbol of whimsy and friendliness, infusing our region and interactions with others with those characteristics. It has become a great tool for diplomacy, recently uniting many regions under the banner of the Potato Alliance for N-Day, helping us to forge relationships with regions we previously didn’t know as well, bonding over potatoes and our shared hopes of victory. The yelling and cheering about potatoes rarely let up for the entire 24 hours; such a spudly display had never been seen before! The ultimate culmination of the potato brand was Max Barry talking about it a little bit in an author Q&A livestream several months ago, and soon after sending me a “Special Potato Edition” signed copy of Providence, his newest book. All it takes is screaming about the same food item for several years nonstop!
Now, this is a cards symposium, so I suppose I have to bring this around to cards somehow! As many of you may be aware I have been collecting all potato-related cards. Anything with potato flags, nation names, or quotes, I want them all! Aside from collecting cards from my region and somewhat passively trying to collect staff cards, potatoes are the main goal. Deck value is of no interest to me, I’m just trying to be silly and collect my potatoes! This has resulted in my looking at cards from an entirely different perspective; I only recently started making some more nations so I could farm more effectively, and I have yet to use any scripts. Potato farming is the only goal, something silly and fun that isn’t too stressful. I can hang out with everyone collecting cards, see all the wackiness going on, but not get caught up in any stress from complicated trades or high level deals. It’s quite peaceful, and fascinating to see what goes on not having to worry about anything affecting me! Of course, being an admin in the cards server means I do have to actually know what’s going on, but I’ve tried to carry the whimsical and friendly potato attitude from Spiritus to the NS Cards server as well, keeping it a light-hearted place where everyone can hang out and have fun.
In short, the humble potato went from a meme campaign pledge, to a personal and regional brand, to a mindset and attitude brought to interregional interactions, card collecting, and NS in general. It’s difficult, in NS, to separate Spiritus or myself from potatoes, providing a way for all to know us. Branding is important; taking a simple brand and running with it can lead to great renown or at least, in the case of the potato, bemused bewilderment.
Thank you all for reading, and do not forget: A potato for all!
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [1]:[/B][/COLOR] What species of potato is your favourite and can you crest a brand name you can utilise to your advantage?
[COLOR=#006400][B]The Salaxalans:[/B][/COLOR] I love all potatoes equally!
And Potato Alliance has been a pretty good brand name so far. :P
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [2]:[/B][/COLOR] How do you find all potato cards? (What methods do you use to effectively find cards that would probably only been found in packs otherwise?)
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [3]:[/B][/COLOR] (All potatoes are equal, but some are more equal than others.)
[COLOR=#006400][B]The Salaxalans:[/B][/COLOR] TNP's Card Queries tool has been vital. I did searches for everything I could think of, with obvious things like "potato" or "tater" but also "fries" or "tato", anything that might be referring to potatoes. Recently I realized that a lot of cards relating to fast food restaurants might contain potatoes because there will be fries if the flag shows a meal, so I searched for those as well. In addition I rely on people noticing cards that have a potato only in their flag; there's no way to search for those but periodically people who know I want potatoes will notice one.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [4]:[/B][/COLOR] Since we all know your favourite vegetable, what's your least favourite?
[COLOR=#006400][B]The Salaxalans:[/B][/COLOR] Brussels sprouts. >_<
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [5]:[/B][/COLOR] They're not that bad; eggplants are worse.
[COLOR=#006400][B]The Salaxalans:[/B][/COLOR] Oooh.
Hmmm.
You might be right.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [5]:[/B][/COLOR] Fellow eggplant hater! ^_^
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [6]:[/B][/COLOR] I've always been curious about this one thing. :O
What's your opinion/thoughts/feelings on the mention of your potato card collection in your commendation Morover authored?
(Specifically the following clause: "The collection of a massive amount of artwork commemorating the starchy food, the full assemblage of which is valued at an astronomical price")
[COLOR=#006400][B]The Salaxalans:[/B][/COLOR] I thought it was wonderful. xD
Official recognition of potatoes is a great thing!
[hr]
[SIZE=7]Q&A with Atlae[/SIZE]
[COLOR=#006400][B]Atlae:[/B][/COLOR] Hey all. I’m Atlae.
I joined NationStates in February 2016, so it’s been almost five years on this stupid game. Last night, at the behest of friends, I found myself addicted to another card-based minigame, Magic the Gathering. :P - But until I leave cards forever with a huge giveaway I’ll still be in NationStates, The East Pacific, and cards for now. I joined the cards server on March 18 of 2020, probably at the behest of y0, but didn’t start collecting until April. My deck value really took off in May due to the Loop pull event. You may know me as the guy who’s collecting all TEP Cards (S1 is 85% complete, S2 is 93% complete as I’m writing this), or a member of Big Farma, or, for the purpose of this lecture, Deputy Steward of TEAPOT, The Eastern Association of Pacifican Ornamental Traders. I understand that my lecture, how to grow a regional organization, may be a bit strange considering that this Cards Symposium is hosted by the TNP Card Guild, who are doing a great job in many respects and probably know more about building an organization than I do. Nevertheless, I hope this lecture can be of use to you all.
The story about how I got into cards and how TEP got into cards is pretty interesting. It was April 2018, under Queen Yuno’s Delegacy, when cards were introduced. For the months leading up to April, we in the TEP government had been plotting. Finally, on March 18th, “Liberate The East Pacific” was proposed. On March 23rd, the Eastern Loligarchical Order (ELO) was formed, bringing in a whole new era of Francoism. But it was all a silly prank and fooled quite a few people, some of whom are now in power today. It was kind of stressful behind the scenes but it was enjoyable being on the other side of it. We really thought we’d done a better prank than what Max Barry could pull. And frankly, trading cards? That didn’t seem all that interesting, to be honest.
Of course, there were still traders in The East Pacific. Many had holdovers from April 1, but some like VW53aland were actively trading. For a while, Queen Yuno was probably at the top of DV charts in The East Pacific. But cards was never a thing that could unite a community like regional government or R/D could. It’s hard collecting data about this since the DMZ (server under Yuno and Fedele) was archived and I didn’t think to ask to reopen it until this lecture. Maybe I’ll ask and receive more information about the history of cards in The East Pacific, but for the purposes of this lecture let’s assume that cards weren’t really prevalent in The East Pacific until Season 2.
In December of 2019, some nerd named Evrigenis or y0 joined The East Pacific. Like the nerd he is, he got addicted to cards and got his friends to collect them as well. By late February 2020, he had started a “farming operation.” The group chat that would eventually become TEAPOT was formed on March 9th and added people one at a time over the course of a few months. Of course, that time was the pandemic, which probably freed up a lot of time for some people, like me.
y0 probably was the one who created the channel #ns-trading-cards in TEP’s server. That’s where I probably first got into cards. At this point, I had a bunch of leftover R/D puppets that I would farm, and I would choose each option manually (based on the number on the puppet mod number of options). Then I got into scripting, which made my life a lot easier and probably changed my life the most but we can talk about that another day. I shared these with my fellow East Pacifican farmers, albeit with some questionable advice (I mentioned that I put a walkie-talkie on the enter button to hold it down).
In late May, y0 also ran a pull event on the legendary very epic figure of 1 Infinite Loop, widely considered the founder of The East Pacific. Unfortunately, due to blocks (a time before TCALS nerfs when we didn’t know much) we got 2 pulls, one of which was me. That probably jumpstarted me into cards.
A few weeks later in June, we discussed the future of our little card farmers’ group. For the 10th slot in our group chat, we invited Sakana, who was this large figure in cards in TEP that I guess (I was probably intimidated by her and her place in the community lol) Sidenote, but Sakana was one of the reasons I got into cards in the first place. I almost heisted her once during a transfer but she still was nice to me and encouraged me. Thanks Sak!
Anyway, we decided to be our own separate, independent, non-governmental organization. This probably sets TEAPOT apart from many other card organizations because theirs is a ministry or a fully integrated part of the government. It was sort of modeled after TNP’s card guild, but then they made their Ministry of Cards so uh honestly I don’t know if it made a difference or not.
Reading through the old chats, I smile with nostalgia when we decided to choose names. Cards Bureau, Cards Mafia, Cards Agricultural Department… It looks like I suggested the acronym TEAPOT and Sakana filled in the blanks. I’m also proud to say I designed the TEAPOT logo (I also redesigned it this year) but my proposal for the TEAPOT flag was bad and I’m glad it wasn’t approved.
Growing TEAPOT was maybe a little hard first. After gaining legitimacy through a Magisterium resolution, our opus memorandi was to contact some of the traders in TEP to get them to join. Well, mostly people from outside TEP came into join at first, because card organizations!
The first major thing that TEAPOT did was in September, organizing the Tea House of Cards festival with Lazarus and XKI. It was a cards festival not unlike this here Cards Symposium, actually, with pull events, games, and all that. Great minds think alike? :P
After the Tea House of Cards festival, TEAPOT has been holding monthly pull events and will soon start giveaways soon. In almost 9 months, TEAPOT has grown to about 30 people. I don’t know how much people other cards organizations have gotten, but I’d assume we’re doing pretty well. The North Pacific’s Cards Guild has 90 people, but they have had a nice head start and everything. Well deserved too.
It seems that regional card organizations are now really in vogue. While I don’t know everything about each region’s motivations in cards, I would guess that this is due to an increased focus on cards being a community endeavor rather than something a few farmers somewhere can rack up without serving any real purpose to the game. I know that regions like The Pacific, The South Pacific, and The Rejected Realms have created their own cards organizations and hosted pull events as well.
To all the new cards organizations out there (and DavanteAdams, hi!) I encourage you to band together like XKI, Laz, and TEP did earlier. Everyone will start out small, so working together will get you where you need to go in terms of human capital. In addition, you’ll meet all sorts of new people and perspectives and might even boost foreign relations. This may have the downside of cards politicking but unfortunately there’s not much I can do about that.
In addition, I’d suggest reaching out to small farmers starting out in your region. You’re not going to find people just by going down the DV leaderboard. What you need is a community who can eventually grow and find their own niche in trading. A regional telegram works if you want to go the lazy way about this. :stuck_out_tongue:
One thing I would honestly say TEAPOT has struggled with (this is the same with many other cards organizations) is that sometimes, it seems like a group of people that hosts pull events now and again. Pull events are great, of course, but they aren’t everything. Also, anybody with a lot of bank these days can hold a pull event, no regional organization required. Thus, once an organization has its footing, try and diversify. Card giveaways are really trendy now, games like scavenger hunts, etc. Always look for new ideas.
Overall, I think that the space for regional cards organizations is growing. Our good friends in The North Pacific have reigned as the most powerful region in terms of cards for a while, but in a year or a few years this may change. I’m eager to see what new cards organizations will thrive and how this will effect the meta of the trading cards minigame.
Thank you for reading, and I will try and answer any and all questions you may have. It can be about TEAPOT, about me, anything really I guess.
Further reading:
y0 and Gr
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [1]:[/B][/COLOR] What would you recommend for a fledgling regional card organisation to focus on? (Special consideration to pitfalls that TEAPOT may have fallen in/narrowly avoided.)
[COLOR=#006400][B]Atlae:[/B][/COLOR] The most important thing in my view for a regional organization - of any regional organization really is outreach. One reason why is because it's for the very survival of an organization. At the core an organization is a group of people. Over time this group of people will shrink unless you find a way to increase the amount of people. Thus you have to think long term about what things will get people into the organization. That's where you think of things like pull events and games.
Another reason is because it benefits the cards minigame as a whole. For the most part, adding more people into the game makes it better. You might be annoyed at the MV sharks, but they indisputably made the game more interesting. And if you really hate them, convince them not to when they join your organization.
I realize that I forgot to mention something that TEAPOT struggled with. It's important to have some form of conflict resolution or mediation procedure. Although we did have anti-heist clauses in our charter, we didn't count for people deflating other people's cards to deflate their DV. Now whether that is a thing that needs to be adjudicated is honestly up to the community to decide.
I also regret not doing other events with TEAPOT, since I mostly just held pull events once a month.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [2]:[/B][/COLOR] It was mentioned that many of the initial members of TEAPOT were from other regions which helped the organisation grow in the initial period, what other advantages have you seen from the more relaxed membership requirements?
[COLOR=#006400][B]Atlae:[/B][/COLOR] Buffed membership stats. :P
In particular, 9003 and Racoda came into TEAPOT pretty early on. They helped with scripts and other materials like farming guides.
Overall you will probably get like card cosmos in your organization. That's good as long as they actually contribute. Otherwise it gives you a false sense of success when you don't have people from your own region in your org.
[COLOR=#006400][B]Atlae:[/B][/COLOR] ...I'm bored and like to hear myself talk, do you have any questions about me specifically? :P
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [2]:[/B][/COLOR] What was the motivation behind starting a regional collection?
[COLOR=#006400][B]Atlae:[/B][/COLOR] For a few months I didn't think I'd be able to do it. I probably started because hey, I know some of these people.
I think Vylixan had something to do with it; seemed like a cool thing to do and I had a lot of new time on my hands with COVID.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [3]:[/B][/COLOR] How did you choose the nation name ‘The Atlae Isles’?
[COLOR=#006400][B]Atlae:[/B][/COLOR] It was a long time ago. It's hard to think of names.
I wanted to go "Atlantis", but of course that didn't exist.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [3]:[/B][/COLOR] Cards question now - Other than TEP S3 - do you have any particular one goal in mind for when S3 hits?
[COLOR=#006400][B]Atlae:[/B][/COLOR] Well I plan on collecting mottoes too.
Probably stockpiling specific cards to use as mass transfers and hoard legendaries.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [4]:[/B][/COLOR] Atlae, for S3 I should give you my card and you should treasure it like gold!
[COLOR=#006400][B]Atlae:[/B][/COLOR] How much will it cost?
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [4]:[/B][/COLOR] F r e e.
[COLOR=#006400][B]Atlae:[/B][/COLOR] The card will be worth 0.00?
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [4]:[/B][/COLOR] Ohhh. I thought you meant how much will it cost you lol.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [3]:[/B][/COLOR] So, since you like questions about yourself, have you always been a legend of Zelda fan?
[COLOR=#006400][B]Atlae:[/B][/COLOR] Well I really got into it in 9th grade.
So like 4 years ago.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [3]:[/B][/COLOR] Do you have any Zelda themed puppet sets?
[COLOR=#006400][B]Atlae:[/B][/COLOR] Check Atlae-1 to Atlae-200.
Mipha, Champion Daruk, Champion Revali, Lady Urbosa are all Zelda themed.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [3]:[/B][/COLOR] :D
Thanks for answering. ^_^
[COLOR=#006400][B]Atlae:[/B][/COLOR] Np!
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [5]:[/B][/COLOR] Is it possible to create a bank in Nationstates?
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [6]:[/B][/COLOR] Only by junking or selling cards.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [5]:[/B][/COLOR] Ah.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [6]:[/B][/COLOR] No way will there be an option to buy any.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [5]:[/B][/COLOR] Would it be worth it?
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [6]:[/B][/COLOR] No, it'd just become a pay to win on the card market.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [7]:[/B][/COLOR] Agreed.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [5]:[/B][/COLOR] I meant a bank set up by private players.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [6]:[/B][/COLOR] How would that even work?
[COLOR=#006400][B]Atlae:[/B][/COLOR] [In response to Event Participant #5’s question] Probably. I don't know enough about banks but theoretically people could.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [3]:[/B][/COLOR] What is next for you in NS, generally?
[COLOR=#006400][B]Atlae:[/B][/COLOR] Couping TRR
Idk really.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [3]:[/B][/COLOR] “Time to junk those TEP cards you have bids on.”
[COLOR=#006400][B]Atlae:[/B][/COLOR] Nuuu.
[hr]
[SIZE=7]Farrakhan's Lecture[/SIZE]
"But one man's rubbish may be another's treasure, and what is the standard of value in such a pursuit as this?"
-Hector Urquhart 'Popular Tales of the West Highlands''
As-Salaam Alaikum
One of the great things about the NS Card Trading Mini-Game is its open-ended nature. Players can engage as often or as little as they like, choose their own goals, and find their levels of satisfaction. My chosen style focuses on making a market for my card and managing the challenges that come with it. Back in 2019, I played for the short-term, intending to land the Top Deck Value before the end of the year. In four months, I managed the Farrakhan Season 1 card to around 500 MV, with purchases at a peak ranging between 400-800 Bank, eventually reaching my goal. For those interested, you can read more about the details of my earlier system in-The Monthly Snapshot - Issue 2 (Trader of the Month/Interview).
When I decided to return to active play last Summer with a new campaign, my goal was to rejuvenate the Farrakhan Season 1 card, reach 100 total copies, outperform the Legendary cards whose MV I had previously failed to displace, and score the top MV among all actively traded cards in the game (not including expired transfer cards). It took several months but on the day of this review (1/30/2021), I finally reached my magic number of 100 copies, and have peaked at an MV of 1,126, completing my goal!
In this write-up, I will offer my thoughts on the ways a player can operate as a Market Maker for their card, discuss some of the challenges that are inherent within the structure of the game, share my experiences using certain strategies, and discuss different metrics players can use to evaluate a Market Maker managed Card as a potential store of value.
The Impossible Trinity
The challenges inherent in making a market for a Card, are similar to that of managing a currency in the FOREX market. Commitment to certain actions will limit the potentiality of others. Every moment of the game, NS players face three conflicting options:
Maintain Bank with full liquidity
Provide Undivided Support for a Position
Retain Flexibility to Support Multiple Positions simultaneously
By definition, focus on any one element will nullify the ability to carry out the other two options. For example, Leg 1 of the triangle (retaining a fully liquid Bank) will prevent a player from placing Standing Bids and/or stepping into a live auction. Leg 2 (Making a Market) inhibits taking on additional outside positions and makes bank capital less liquid. Leg 3 (flexibility to pursue multiple positions) weakens the potential to act as a Market Maker and commits liquid Bank into the market. No player can escape the Impossible Trinity, we can only set goals and manage with-in the framework. Failure to effectively balance and navigate the limitations imposed by this trilemma will often lead to severe consequences: Bank Insolvency, Crashes in Market Value, Boom/Bust Cycles in Total Deck Value, inability to fulfill collection needs, etc. Player beware.
From the standpoint of my experiences playing as a Market Maker, the main trade-off has come from Leg 3 (flexibility/diversity in building a collection). With a focus on using Capital Formation to fund Bank, I willingly sacrificed appreciation of the artistic aspects of the game, using Card Farming to liquidate positions for future investment. At times, I have focused nearly exclusively on Leg 1, which delayed the fulfillment of goals that could only be brought about through Leg 2 (ie. realizing maximum Deck Value, actualizing near-term Farrakhan S1/S2 MV potential). I have used a Reserve Bank( Gold Crescent Alistan)to build a second Market Maker position in Farrakhan S2, and a Treasury( FMM1)to help manage Farrakhan S1, but elements of Leg 3 don't stretch far beyond that in my system. Keep these types of trade-offs in mind when measuring if my methods would align with what makes the game enjoyable for you.
Advice For Beginners Acting As A Market Maker
Whether you are a long-time player, an experienced player who recently had their card generated for the first time, or are completely new to the game, developing the value of your card can be a great experience. Below are some tips which may prove helpful:
*Determine the percentage of Total Bank you are willing to commit toward acquiring copies, repeating Standing Bids, and/or enacting Direct Market purchases (buying from your own account) toward your position. The larger the percentage invested, the more aggressive your approach, the greater your potential return. The trade-off is that your degree of investment will come at the expense of other aspects of the game (ie. Impossible Trinity).
*Set a target for how much cash flow you will need weekly to reach your goals. For example, if you can generate 10 Bank a week, and you are willing to budget half toward acting as a Market Maker, that's 20 Bank a month, 240 Bank a year. Measure that against your card's potential appreciation over its Junk Value. With consistency, the compounded effect can be great over time.
*Capital formationis the lifeblood of effective Market Making. To be successful as a Market Maker, a player must be prepared to provide a strong and consistent stream of cash flow into their Bank. Time is always of the essence. Active purchases need to be made, positions need to be supported with Standing Bids, and a reserve needs to be plentiful and liquid to prevent retrenchment. Below is a break-down of the Top 250 cards with-in each rarity tier, which shows where the most lucrative bids can be found:
As the chart above shows, the cards that carry the most double and triple-digit Standing Bids are in the Legendary market. Having owned and sold every Legendary card that has been produced at some point, my experience has been that even those Legendary cards with single-digit Standing Bids, listed at deep discounts to their MV (and in rare cases at discounts to their JV) have consistently outperformed the return on almost all other rarities when placed into Auction. If your goal is to build Bank, this is where the money is.
*Reserve Banks & Treasury Accounts: In line with the challenges imposed by the Impossible Trinity, a Market Maker will need to find a way to mitigate saving and investing needs. I have found it helpful to dedicate separate accounts to this purpose. My Reserve Bank (Gold Crescent Alistan) exists to buy new positions of Farrakhan Season 2 with recurring Standing Bids (set at a Hard Peg) as well as handle general tasks (ie. fund undercapitalized puppets during card farming process). My Treasury account (FMM1) is structured as a pure Put against Farrakhan Season 1 and places recurring Standing Bids at a deep discount to MV (set at a Crawling Band). While the Reserve is purposely active, the Treasury is purposely passive. In both cases, I find it helpful to deposit sums into each account that are large enough (either through direct transfers or sustained farming campaigns) that the capital committed will last for a long time. The set it and forget it approach allows for both fiscal discipline and psychological freedom (knowing there is a backstop in place).
*Heisting: Going through the process of Card Farming, countless opportunities will abound to interfere with other players transferring Bank through the auction process. Placing a low Ask on a newly obtained card pulled via TCALS can reap large amounts of Bank in minimal time. While often easy money, I choose to abstain. People of all ages and experience levels engage in this hobby purely for enjoyment, and I take no pleasure in exploiting their moments of vulnerability. These heisting opportunities happen so frequently that I established a dedicated account to store these cards when pulled: FGWF(Farrakhan Good Will Foundation). If in time these cards develop attractive MV, I will add them to my wealth account. If a player contacts me and requests the card for strategic use, I usually just gift it to them. I find this approach to be more rewarding than taking Bank. Feel free to choose your own adventure.
*Developmental Stage: As your return on expense is most advantageous at the beginning of the Market-Making process (ie. when velocity is high, card supply is robust, and before your MV has shown much appreciation above JV), it is to your benefit to obtain copies for as low a price as possible, for as long as possible. With time, your ability to purchase at a slight premium to junk value will end, as other players will come to see your card as being a store of value. Players will then begin to either charge you at a premium above MV, or begin to hold your card for longer periods for appreciation or future intended sales. Over time, this can generate an expensive feedback loop. Try to resist the urge to realize true price potential too quickly while the supply of copies is plentiful, as doing so will come at the expense of raising your costs long before necessary.
*Law of Diminishing Returns: At a constant rate of investment, the percentage gains from building your card will decrease over time. The only way to change the math is to increase the amount of capital you are committing to your position. For example: if you build the MV of an Epic card from 5 to 10, you will reap a 100% return. Taking that same card from 10 to 15 will only reap a 50% gain from the same amount of time and capital being invested. This downward trend will only continue to accelerate without a change in the financing structure. Options include: i. increasing the base amount of savings into your Bank while still investing at the same percentage, ii. investing at a more aggressive percentage of Bank without a change in your base savings, or iii. increasing your base savings while also increasing the percentage rate of Bank investment.
*An Average Calculatorcan be used to plan out the effects of future transactions on your card's MV. It takes five sales to generate an effect, and beyond that, the average of your last 10 sales will be scored.
*Sequence of Order Execution: When the system calculates a card's MV, the initial sale will be scored as most recent, but when there are multiple transactions with various prices with-in a sale, the ordering of the other positions will prove haphazard (often with the lowest as scoring most recent). For this reason, it is to your advantage to initiate higher-priced transactions after a multi-sale auction concludes, as opposed to placing them in real-time during this type of auction. Example: You are buying your card from two players for 10, a new seller drops their ask for one of the Bids to 9. Wait until AFTER the auction ends to buy out the remaining higher Ask so it will be guaranteed to place as the most recent sale sequentially. This will benefit your card's MV calculation for a longer time.
*Counteracting Short Sales: Dealing with market hazards is the responsibility of any Market Maker. At times, players will choose to sell below your Standing Bid, which can reset your MV downward in the near-term. While this can appear disadvantageous at the outset, if you invest into your position at a constant rate, steep discounts can prove highly beneficial, lowering your overall cost basis, increasing your rate of return, and allowing for greater profit over time than there otherwise would be. This is one of the reasons why publicly traded companies will willingly enact stock splits. If this happens to your position, simply place a Direct Purchase (or series of purchases) above the intended original Bid price to even out the difference. For example, a Standing Bid of 5 is matched to an Ask of .01. The trade will settle at 2.5. In a subsequent transaction after that Auction ends, proactively sell the card to yourself from another account at 10 (target price of 5 (2)) and the algorithm will even out the MV back to your target price. If you are capital constrained, you can accomplish the same goal with a series of staggered purchases that trend upward at an affordable rate as savings recover over time.
*Saturation Points: In line with the challenges imposed by the Law of Diminishing Returns, a mature position can reach a point where it is Priced to Perfection, as very few owners outside of the Market Maker wish to transact. This can occur as new supplies of the card dry up, while existing copies offer owners a store of value that is decidedly more attractive than alternative cards on the market. A victim ts own success, very few 'better cards' exist within the marketplace for which owners want to sell to raise Bank, even with the incentive of extraordinarily high Standing Bids. At that point, it may be to the advantage of a Market Maker to encourage actions that will temporarily bring MV down (ie. Free Floating the position, coordinating Pull Events). While this may seem counter-intuitive, when a Market Maker is at a Saturation Point, a short-term retrenchment can reset conditions for a new campaign, with even greater future returns than can be found under the status-quo.
*Over-Extension: real-time market conditions may cause a Market Maker to spend more of their Bank capital than their liquidity levels can comfortably support. When this happens, the number of repeat Standing Bids that can be placed at MV decreases, a red flag for Owners who view the card as a store of value. Options for the Market Maker include i. Increasing base savings, ii. Decreasing the number of repeat Standing Bids, iii. Lowering the Bank amount placed behind the position to some percentage below current MV. Over-extension marks a period where retrenchment becomes more likely until savings are replenished
*Bank Insolvency: a far more severe and bearish condition than over-extension, a Market Maker's savings can become thoroughly exhausted to a point where Standing Bids can no longer be placed anywhere near MV, possibly not at all. Operations may or may not cease, as clear gaps become visible in both the time between new Standing Bids and the Bank amounts being placed in support behind them. A sale matched at a discount to MV may take a significant period to recover (possibly never) and it becomes likely that the card will trend toward a lower base, creating a negative feedback loop. Unless and until Bank savings are recapitalized, options for the Market Maker include i. Free-floating (allowing the card to trade for some time with either a token Standing Bid or without any Standing Bid at all) or ii. Total Capitulation (walking away from the position entirely). With time, a Market Maker can recover from Bank insolvency, but it is not guaranteed
*Managed Decline: if a Market Maker is planning to make a change to their system that is likely to decelerate operations (ie. less card farming, committing bank to alternate positions, playing the game less entirely) there are protective steps that can be taken to minimize damage to the card's MV. Options include i. placing a stream of deeply discounted Standing Bids to publicly set a known floor, ii. performing Open Market operations (buying from your account) at the discounted MV to re-establish some form of price support, and iii. making occasional Direct Market purchases when Standing Asks are listed at affordable prices. A Managed Decline marks a bearish period for the position, and while it can seem depressing, the power to one day reverse this condition always remains within the hands of the Market Maker.
*Taking Time-Off: Eventually, your level of motivation will decrease. Maybe you will achieve your overall MV and DV goals, and the game will become a less enjoyable pursuit. Or perhaps something in 'real-life' will take priority over your free time. Don't be afraid or feel guilty about your card losing value in the interim of your direct support. In the real world, even the best of publicly traded companies have experienced bad quarters with intervals when their MV trended downward. Periods of decline build a sense of character into the history of your performance as a whole. Personally, I prefer to play in stints, with a goal in mind that's tied to some form of end trigger. My first goal was a time limit to achieve Top Deck Value. I then took a break, only later to return with the new 100 copies challenge. I find that creating hard deadlines and knowing there is a finish line ahead, makes things more fun. At the end of the day, all a Market Maker ever needs to input a price that trends upward are copies of the card, capital to invest, and the talent/willingness to spend time playing. If the latter isn't there, you can always return and recover using the tools of the former when the stars align again.
Metrics To Access The Value of Market Maker Run Cards
*Amount of realized profit the Market Maker has produced for other players through direct purchases of the card
Total Return on Investment the Market Maker generates for other players who hold the card as a store of value
Total sales volume the Market Maker generates relative to other cards
Amount of Liquid Bank the Market Maker has committed to supporting the card
#, recency and amount of alternate Bids the Market Maker has placed into other positions
# of copies the Market Maker owns
# of trades behind the position
Recency of time between transactions
Four measures of Intrinsic Value (i. Junk Value, ii. Highest Standing Bid, iii. Projected MV after the sale at Highest Standing Bid, and iv. Projected MV after purchase at lowest Standing Ask)
Velocity (frequency of Find History)
Likelihood of Pull Event target/capacity to withstand
Likelihood of Short Target/capacity to withstand
Number/Diversity/Recency of Standing Bids
Standing Bids relative to Market Value
Standing Bids relative to Peers
Ways To Protect A Position
Hard Peg
Two factors to take into account when evaluating the strength of any given price peg are i. Standing Bid to Current Market Value and ii. Standing Bid to Junk Value. A Hard Peg involves placing a Put (Standing Bid) either at, very near, or above the current Market Value. This encourages sales to transact very close to MV. A Hard Peg is the most aggressive form of price support, creating a high incentive for players to sell directly to the Bidder, and requires the highest commitment of real-time Bank support to maintain continuously. When acting as a Market Maker, you can use the Impossible Trinity paradigm to structure the degree to which such an approach is feasible toward your overall goals, balancing Bank solvency, with liquidity to engage other positions.
Example: Season 2 Farrakhan (entirety)
When Season 2 began, I prioritized building a position using a Hard Peg at a Premium to Junk Value with the purchase price as low as the market would allow. In review, Farrakhan S2 has never traded below .58 (a slight premium to JV) and began trading six times JV (independent of my purchases) within its first three sales. For several weeks, I was able to build a position from other owners with a Hard Peg of 5 Bank (10 times JV of an Epic .5). With time, the Market Value would rise in line with the Hard Peg, which would lead owners to Ask at prices at a premium to MV (the premium over JV eventually ceased to be an attractive enough metric to entice sales).
Another factor that bids up a Hard Peg as Market Value rises is a Card's growing appeal as a future store of value. Meaning the development of a belief that future value will become greater than the present value of a sale at the current Standing Bid. A growing number of owners will begin to either ask for much higher prices (ie. 1,000, 10,000) and/or hold the position outright with no interest in selling, while other players begin to place standing competitive Bids for the card of their own.
To maintain a dominant position, a Market Maker must be prepared to deploy more capital (ie. multiple Bids at higher prices than other players are willing to pay) to Crowd Out other buyers. In my case, multiple Standing Bids of 6 slowly grew to 10, 15, 20, 25, 30, 35, 38. Standalone purchases would run as high as 50. Eventually, an equilibrium price would be found where many players would sell, while very few players would attempt to bid. Keep in mind, while you may have the funds to win every auction, there are times when doing so will be a Pyrrhic victory, as the process of winning a bidding war will raise your MV and your future purchasing costs. An additional background factor is that of time. With the conversion into a new season, the market of the future will no longer organically generate the card at the same rate it currently does, raising potential Market Value through scarcity.
In retrospect, a Hard Peg (at a premium to JV, and later at/near MV) was very successful in allowing me to build a large position in my card (at the time of this write-up, 110 copies). The trade-off was that I had to deploy a great deal of capital consistently, budget liquidity for an extended period, and artificially keep down the potential market value (which also sacrificed Deck Value appreciation). As I now play for the long-term, the exchange was worth it, your mileage may vary.
Crawling Band
This is a strategy used by a Market Maker to mix the price protection of a Peg with the discretionary spending flexibility of a Float. Multiple Standing Bids are placed at a percentage below the card's Market Value but are structured in such a way to preserve most of the position. This tactic can also be used in combination with a subsequent purchase at a price targeted well above the band to reset the MV to the intended target price. When done correctly, this will allow incoming purchases to be made at a discount, while staggering the MV upward with discretion, increasing the overall return on investment of the Market Maker.
Example: Season 1 Farrakhan (late 2020/early 2021)
In late December, I decided to revalue Farrakhan Season 1 upward to 822 MV (total investment was 8,224.50 Bank, nine 775 Buys, and one 1,249.50 Buy). In the process, I gained six additional copies and deposited four of the 775 buys into a Treasury account labeled FMM1(Farrakhan Market Maker 1) with the intent to pivot into a Crawling Band. I then immediately placed three Standing Bids from FMM1 at 500 Bank (a 48.7% discount to MV, but still among the highest Standing Bids in the entire market).
For several weeks, there were no transactions until a Pull Event, where all three of the 500 SBs were executed, and I followed up mid-auction with three additional purchases from my Farrakhan account at 1,250, 1,253, 1,200, along with a drop sale at 1,257.34 that was deposited back into FMM1. Total investment was 6,961.01 with six additional copies of the card gained, three at a substantial discount, and a substantial increase in Deck Value. My greatest efficiency using the technique was to absorb a 500 Standing Bid and then follow-up in a subsequent auction with two large purchases, 2,499.66 and 2,499.97. This resulted in a gain of three copies (one at a discount), increased my Deck Value over 30k, and allowed me to realize my return goal of taking Farrakhan S1 to double its old all-time high with the targeted 100th copy.
The numbers involved in these transactions are historically high, but the strategies can work for any player, working with any amount of capital. In an auction involving multiple purchases with a trend below your target, place and match the higher bids in a subsequent auction AFTER that auction concludes. This will allow you to input a better-recorded price (or ideally a series of higher prices) as the most recent sequentially and will cause the lower prices to drop from future MV recalculations first.
General advice for players considering the Crawling Band strategy:
i. Determine what percentage of your Total Bank you want to target toward building MV (ie. an account with 1,000 Bank, an investment commitment of 5% would create a price target of 50). Use the Impossible Trinity paradigm to weigh how conservative or aggressive you want to be in the context of your goals as a whole.
ii. Dedicate a Treasury account with Bank that is solely used to hedge the position with Standing Bids set at a discount to current MV. This will impose a sense of fiscal discipline into your campaign, and allow you the flexibility to explore other aspects of the game separately.
iii. After any purchase of a new copy of the card at a discount, use the Bank in your main account to purchase more cards at a premium that will net toward your intended MV target. Cash is king, budget maintaining levels of liquidity.
Free Float
A Free Float is when the Market Value of a Card is allowed to fluctuate without the participation of the Market Maker. This often creates a negative feedback loop of bearish sentiment, because the source of the position's buying support (Standing Bids from the MM) has been withdrawn. Uncertainty builds to the position's legitimacy as a store of future value. Standing Asks will often begin to appear that are priced below MV, and investors will begin cashing out to those Bidding at a discount. The Free Float can lead to a near-term price crash, but with time a new equilibrium will settle things down.
Example: Season 1 Farrakhan (late 2019)
My direct experience with a Free Float stems back from September 2019 to late December 2019. For four months, I took a hiatus from the game, and Season 1 Farrakhan was traded in the market without my placing a Standing Bid. My last purchase price was 47.50. From then on, there were eight independent transactions, ranging from 7.51, 15.01, 17.26, 16, 15.01, 15, 15.75, and 10.32. That is an average sale of 13.98, a 70.57% decline from the last sale with the Standing Bid I had provided. Yet despite the uncertainty, relatively few Owners vacated the position.
Does it make sense to retain or invest in a Card that was once supported by a Market Maker that has been placed into a Free Float? It's a gamble. In the immediate term, there could be strong downward pressure on MV as the fundamentals that drove that price upward has changed. However, if in the future the Market Maker returns with a new campaign, and talent, support, and capital investment rebound into the position, the return for those who purchased at a discount during the Free Float could be extraordinary. There is one player who purchased S1 Farrakhan during the above Free Float period, and later sold during a return campaign for a positive return of 5,063%! A calculated risk that paid off.
Closing Thoughts
This is a great hobby, and playing as a Market Maker has been a rewarding experience. The strategies discussed were fun to plan out and have helped me to achieve various goals that made the game worth playing. The journey (conceptualizing abstract thoughts into a game-plan, developing an infrastructure within a Random Number Generator framework) was much more rewarding than ultimately reaching a destination. While no balloons and confetti drop from the ceiling, I can always look back and smile when logging into NS.
On the flip side, I'm also happy I was able to share the wealth during this last campaign, making other players 'rich' with triple and quadruple-digit purchases:
I also appreciate the loyalty of those owners of my card who chose to buy/farm and hold with greatly enhanced Deck Values, especially those who held the position during the Free Float. I even have a love for my haters, who dream of deflating Farrakhan with an endless stream of .01 Asks. This is a game, it is healthy that people are inspired to compete and I never take it personally.
I hope this read was useful in some way. However long from now that you are reading this, the techniques discussed should remain evergreen in their application. Thank you to those at TNP and the Cards Symposium for the invite. From scripts to community structure, it never ceases to amaze me how many talented and generous people are a part of this great community. Stay safe, have fun, all the best!
Farrakhan
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[small][U][B]The Northern Lights[/B][/U][B]:[/B] [I]Beauty in Truth[/I]
Publisher: McMasterdonia :: Executive Editor: BMWSurfer
[I]The Northern Lights is produced by the Ministry of Communications on behalf of the Government of The North Pacific and is distributed by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs externally and by the Ministry of Home Affairs internally. Except where otherwise indicated, all content represents the views of the Government of The North Pacific.[/I]
[B][URL='https://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=352113']Index of issues[/URL][/align][/B]
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We are aware that not everyone is equally appreciative of image-based NS newspapers. As such, we've included the standard format mostly plain-text version of the newspaper in the spoiler below. We hope you enjoy reading this month's issue! If you have any questions, comments, concerns, or suggestions, feel free to contact the current TNP Minister of Communications [nation]PotatoFarmers[/nation].[/center]
[spoiler=Standard Version]
[IMG]https://forum.thenorthpacific.org/images/news_media/tnl_logo.png[/IMG]
[size=150]Editor’s Note[/SIZE][/CENTER]
[RIGHT][I]by BMWSurfer, Minister of Communications[/I]
[/RIGHT]
[CENTER]Welcome to The Northern Lights.
Recently, The North Pacific hosted a Cards Symposium, a gathering for all members of the cards community. Featured in this edition of The Northern Lights iare five lectures and Q&A sessions with prominent members of the community. We hope you enjoy reading this issue!
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[size=150]Note from the Minister of Cards[/SIZE][/CENTER]
[RIGHT][I]by DGES, Minister of Cards[/I][/RIGHT]
[CENTER]The 2021 Cards Symposium was a large-scale cards festival hosted by The North Pacific during the end of February. Activities relating to this festival were held throughout the span of 1 week, with minigames, guest speakers, and fully-fledged competitions comprising the majority of what took place during the Symposium.
The Symposium marked one of the very first festivals celebrating the cards minigame, with over 110 users attending the event and enjoying it in one way or another. An entire month was spent planning its release, so we hope that this issue of The Northern Lights provides you some perspective on what took place if you weren't there!
Happy reading~[/center]
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[size=150]Q&A with Mikeswill[/SIZE]
[COLOR=#006400][B]Mikeswill:[/B][/COLOR] Welcome to the 2021 Card Symposium.
I would first like to give my thanks to The Infinite Hell-Sage Empire of Destructive Government Economic System for inviting me to share my experiences and opinions on this platform. I am truly humbled by the honor. It represents a degree of success in this endeavor based on much effort.
I do not have an agenda to promote. Instead I am willing to share my experiences in the Card realm over these two plus seasons. A brief history:
The initiation of the Card game during the April 1, 2018 limited period found me in an advantageous position given my long history of creating satellite Nations representing different points and interests in my Nation States life. As such I was able to move cards from these satellite Nations to my main resulting in a top 10 finish at the end of the first run.
When the game resumed in earnest I began as a Heister (a nation that undercuts a sell bid to gain profit); a Penny Bidder (a nation that raises buys in penny increments), and an inflator of Legendary cards (I pushed the price of Legendary cards to $10). The first two tactics brought ill-will and retaliation by a group of card players.
After a few combative conversations with Frisbeeteria I was invited to join a card Discord to the chagrin of many. It was via this Discord that I was able to evolve out my initial game-play and into a more community considerate style of play. Nevertheless, I was guilty of numerous antagonistic conversations for a period of time as I slowly evolved as a trader.
I learned about trade dropping – buying low and selling high on a trade. I learned how to protect a bank transfer after numerous times losing profits to heisters. (I used to transfer bank via 0.50 Rare sales). I learned how to create puppets to facilitate greater card/ bank and gain an advantageous position during pull events. And so it goes.
My intention, therefore, is not to present a position but rather to address any questions a Nation may have. Thus the format will be Q & A.
A few ideas for questions: How setting a reasonable goal can make card trading fun....Why Koem Kab is the only trader I completely trust? ... Dropping on Legendary trades: How to drop and why it is OK... How do I maintain my top 5 position without using scripts?
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [1]:[/B][/COLOR] That last one is interesting. How do you maintain your top 5 position without using scripts?
[COLOR=#006400][B]Mikeswill:[/B][/COLOR]This was a trick question. The answer is unwavering perseverance. I am a bit older than many of the players in NationStates and have had a difficulty understanding the creation and use of scripts or programming or coding or whatever it is called that automates or facilitates a more efficient manner of answering issues and junking cards for bank. So I work harder and longer ... one issue and one junked card at a time.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [2]:[/B][/COLOR]What do you mean by Koem Kab being the only trader you trust and why?
[COLOR=#006400][B]Mikeswill:[/B][/COLOR]In the course of relationships it is easy to create expectations only to be let down at some point. In the card game as in most speculative endeavors one seeks consistency and over the 2+ years of play Koem has been the most consistent trader that I have experienced. Moreover, from my experience, he has yet to act upon emotion over logic.
Other players, me included, have exhibited emotion reactions that go against expectation. Usually these are one time occurrences but they are enough to create doubt in future transactions.
Examples: getting heisted by a Nation who for months gave and received the courtesy of non-interference. Purposefully have one’s pull event blocked so as to deny the opportunity to obtain a card by a player who abused the same system many times over.
Players have changed tactics from time to time for whatever reason. I am not going to necessarily judge why an ally all of a sudden decides to interfere with a bank transfer but I will alter my trades in the future to minimize the interference. (I used to get mad and that will be discussed via a different Q & A.
On the other, Koem trades in Legendary cards as I do so we have a common goal: to maintain and grow the value of these cards. I know that in a bidding war he will have 4x my bank so if he decides he wants the card I am not going too far above MV without encouraging him to drop me. He seems to know that if I am bidding on a high priced Legendary I’m going to buy the card and will back off once MV has made. Even though we seldom if ever converse via telegram we seemingly give and take when a series of Legendary cards hit the market at below MV bids.
So I trust him. I trust him because it is always good to trust at least one other player.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [2]:[/B][/COLOR]How do you look at your trading style in the past and reflect on it today? What was your process for growth in that way?
[COLOR=#006400][B]Mikeswill:[/B][/COLOR]I am far more confident today than I was in the beginning. I began as a penny bidder and heister trying to win every trade for the sake of winning the trade. When I focused on a goal I was able to pin point the trades I wanted to be involved in. This took a degree of trial and error. Moreover, no one likes a penny bidder especially in the Legendary market. It can bring up antagonistic emotions and communications. So I quit being a penny bidder. I also realized that the market is incredibly large. It isn't necessary for me to try to get every card.
One more thing: If you see me buying a non-Legendary card I am probably moving the card from a pup to my main... that means I can inflate the card as high as I want because the bank is secure.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [3]:[/B][/COLOR]What would you say is a good goal to have when beginning as a trader? For this answer, please draw from your own learning experiences and/or mistakes when you were first starting out and explain how it translates to setting a reasonable goal, if you would.
[COLOR=#006400][B]Mikeswill:[/B][/COLOR]When Season 1 began in earnest Legendary cards were the most desired. Although I was in the top 10 in Deck Value, the number of Legendary cards I owned was nowhere near a complete set of 184 cards. Additionally, seven Legendary Nations had ceased to exist since the April 1st rollout making acquisition of those cards far more challenging. And so I set the goal of collecting every Legendary card.
What I found was that I was initially tentative in my trading. I was easily intimidated by players such as Koem Kab and Fris and The Northern Lights who had far more bank and better trade tactics. I can specifically recall needing to get the CTE Legendary Mindless Contempt and knowing that my 200.00 bid – the extent of my bank – would be surpassed before the trade was completed. It can become disheartening when you feel like other traders have the upper hand. And so I changed my goal.
Actually I changed my attitude. I decided that I was not going to allow another Nation intimidate my card play. I got realistic on the amount of bank necessary to successfully consummate whatever trade I wanted to participate in. I decided that I was willing to purchase at 10% above Market Value (sometimes even more) to get the card I desired. I didn’t concern myself with penny bidding in an effort to get the lowest purchase rather I attacked the trade at Market Value. In other words, I got serious about obtaining my goal. And to me that is the ultimate goal, to decide what you want and then go out and get it.
I see so many traders trading to get the best deal and then missing out on the card because they weren’t willing to go the extra 0.25 – the value of a pack. Just yesterday a player bought one of my S1 obscure Epics to beat me out of .01 while another player battled me when all the while they could have spent an extra .02 to get the card.
So to get to the question in more tangible terms: depending on which Region you reside in you might want to start with the goal of collecting every Regional member. I am thinking of collecting both S1 and S2 cards of every WA member in my region. Setting goals which are attainable can bring much satisfaction and in the process develops one’s ability to consummate trades and communicate with card holders in order to persuade them to sell.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [4]:[/B][/COLOR]1. Texan here, how long was your power out, lol
2. As someone looking to farm puppets for cards, how many puppets would you say is a good amount while not giving my life to the trade?
[COLOR=#006400][B]Mikeswill:[/B][/COLOR]1. My condo is near a Fire station so I only lost power for about 2 hours
2. I don't know the answer to the optimum number of puppets to have while still maintaining a real life outside NS. I have 345 active puppets. If I knew how to use scripts or whatever that is called I would probably be far more efficient than I am. I am certain that manually going through 345 pups a day takes up a lot of time.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [5]:[/B][/COLOR]Hi! As a mere enthusiast to this game I find the collecting satisfying, but the sociology fascinating. Though communicating through telegraphs is the clearest way to convey information, I find most interesting the concept of attempting to communicate through bidding alone. Watching players get scared off by a large jump in bids, frantically scouring their trades to see if a puppet of theirs has another copy, attempting to discourage people from penny bidding by immediately jumping to MV, watching people bid .01 below MV as though that number matters at all.
What have you found to be effective methods of conveying intent to other players while bidding (or asking)? How do you discourage those who seek a "good deal" from taking a card you genuinely want?
[COLOR=#006400][B]Mikeswill:[/B][/COLOR]The Sociology of assessing another player by the way they bid is an awesome study. If I see a player penny bidding I presume that their expectations and confidence levels are low... they probably lack sufficient bank to adequately buy cards they want and are playing a game of hope. A large counter bid will usually dissuade them. If a player tries to heist a bank transfer I find that I can wear them down by penny bidding the clock knowing that I have at least one other bank transfer card copy. (I did this to Momo on a Legendary trade an extended the trade for four hours). One of my projects has me buying up some cards and initially I fought off the other bidders by raising my Buy price to deny them the copy of the card. But in retrospect I am just over paying on a card that by the time I want to take advantage of my ownership position, the other player may cease to exist making their ownership moot. And then I use the old fashioned style of communication: I send a telegram. Be careful with telegrams... there are a lot of angry Nations out there.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [5]:[/B][/COLOR]Also, piggybacking off of [Event Participant #2], I assume you trust Koem Kab because their bids are consistent and clear, but do you think their complete monopolistic domination of the legendary market - essentially price fixing the entirety through plurality ownership - is detrimental to the competitive nature of auctions?
My questions are perhaps not technical enough for this Q and A.
[COLOR=#006400][B]Mikeswill:[/B][/COLOR]No. Keep in mind that though Koem owns 11,000 Legendary cards, r3n and I each own over 3,000 apiece. Thus Koem does not have a complete monopolistic domination of the market. Any player has access to the market and is no way curtailed from being successful in the market bank permitted. Whereas I am probably a Democratic Socialists at heart, I have no issue with someone like Koem utilizing his means and talents to arrive at his level of success especially where no one else is denied the same opportunity. I am a perfect example. I have successfully collected every S1 and S2 Legendary without any barriers.
As to the second point - the competitive nature of auctions – Koem has shown far more constraint in maintaining the status quo. The competitive nature of auctions is a myth. Either you have sufficient bank to obtain the card you want or you don’t. The fact that you can pull the desired card removes any barrier to competition. Koem doesn’t arbitrarily inflate Legendary cards (That was Noah in 2020). He simply attempts to maintain the current MV but will aid the inflation of a Legendary on a trade by trade basis as will I.
Now the purposeful inflation of common cards to artificially raise one’s DV as detrimental... :)
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [5]:[/B][/COLOR]Ahh, my question was worded poorly. I mean that Koem does not have to abide by the same issues of competition that I do when bidding on a legendary. They are able to undercut/drop any player on nearly any legendary; the result being that even obscene deals (such as when 9003 accidentally dropped [Zamri1138] for 2 instead of 20) go to Koem by default, and are frequently uncontested. I can do that with my own card and a few others, but they have domination in this respect to (nearly) the entire legendary market. I find the frenzy of bidding on a good deal to be exciting and fun, but don't bother on legendaries because the end result is known.
[COLOR=#006400][B]Mikeswill:[/B][/COLOR]You might want to ask yourself why are you so consumed with Koem Kab at the detriment of your own personal goal... I am not picking on you alone. I think man has an innate nature to criticize the highly successful and thus legitimize their own self-inflicted victimization. For instance: your complaint about Koem in the Legendary market could easily be applied to me. I have sufficient power and bank in that market to dominate any trade. But because I am #3 in the game I don't get the same negative attention that KK does. I am also amused by the frenzy of greed when someone purposefully or not places a low Ask on a Legendary... it means bank for me because if I get to the card before Koem I will drop you and then the ensuing outrage by the player who got dropped is delightful. Because it is outrage based on emotional greed. Keep that in mind in the future. I have been busy with a project so my involvement in the day to day Legendary market has waned but I will be back soon!
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [5]:[/B][/COLOR]I think my comments on Koem came off as antagonistic instead of esoteric. I don't mind them as a player at all, I was trying to get your thoughts on how monopolies and oligarchies skew the market and was using my experience as a comparison, not a complaint. I'm not much of a legendary hound, just trying to compare how market forces are asymmetrically applied to different players. Thanks for your answers!
[COLOR=#006400][B]Mikeswill:[/B][/COLOR][Reacts with sunglasses emoji]
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [6]:[/B][/COLOR]As someone who has been active since the beginning, what is the most enjoyable facet of the card game for you?
I sometimes forget the connection between cards and the nations behind them. Do you place value on cards of players you have a good relationship with? Or are there cards you value due to memorable events (like first Legendary find)?
[COLOR=#006400][B]Mikeswill:[/B][/COLOR]The most enjoyable facet was and is the increased interaction with other game players. Prior to the card game I was basically just keeping my region going as the longest serving WA Delegate in the history of the game (15+ years). Because of the streak I was still active but isolated to my region. I don't participate in the Security Council because I find it either a popularity contest or a travesty to the game mechanics. The General Assembly has gotten incredibly stale as Nations write Resolutions for personal recognition and then Repeal the a week later. (I truly believe that there should be a 6 month wait time before Repeals can be considered). So when the card game arose it gave me the opportunity to branch out far beyond the confines of my nest. I have built relationships with Nations from many Regions reminding me of the joy I had in my first year in the game where players from across the globe engaged. In December I decided to blow past the constraints of Deck Capacity. This has allowed me to increase my collection from < 2,000 to over 15,000 cards giving me the opportunity to collect cards of Nations I have appreciated as players but whose card value might have not fit the prior limitation of deck space.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [7]:[/B][/COLOR]What tactics should you be aware of when you try to card flip in Nationstates?
[COLOR=#006400][B]Mikeswill:[/B][/COLOR]I'm not sure what card flipping is. If that is the Buying low and Selling high trade style I am not a participant as it has no long term return for me. I am mostly a collector of Legendary cards. I will drop on any Legendary trade where I can garner a 5.00 profit or more. Now I do see players buying low on my CTE S1 Common transfer cards thinking they are going to get the 4.00 MV price at some point in the future not realizing that every historical trade has been made between me and my pups. It is the same with Buying inflated Commons thinking that because the card is at 200.00 someone is going to Buy at 50.00. This is Fool's Gold... a waste of bank because eventually the card, if traded, will only decrease in value.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [1]:[/B][/COLOR] With people obviously hoping a Season 3 comes out this year, what can you do to increase the rarity of your potential future card?
[COLOR=#006400][B]Mikeswill:[/B][/COLOR]I have no idea. I am certain I will never be a Legendary because my activities in this game over 17 years tends to go against the grain of the the elite. I think that writing proposals might help. Maybe write a bunch of inane Security Council resolutions and the Repeal them a week later might get you a higher Rarity. Some folks try to manipulate the acquisition of badges. If that is your choice check out this link: [URL]http://www.mwq.dds.nl/ns/results/[/URL] - I just play the game. I was Commended once and then that was repealed out of spite. Other players have tried to both Commend and Condemn me I guess to help increase my card rarity which I have appreciated.
Oh, and S3 will never happen.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [8]:[/B][/COLOR]I've noticed that you have valid concerns regarding whether Season 3 will ever occur, but if we were to be hypothetical and say that Season 3 decided to appear, what do you believe are some of the most important things players should do in order to prepare for the upcoming season?
[COLOR=#006400][B]Mikeswill:[/B][/COLOR]I'm not planning on doing a thing different specifically to plan for Season 3. I know some players have stocked puppets with packs waiting to open them at the time. I don't understand that logic. If S3 is inevitable them S2 cards will become rarer thus why hold onto packs for the future when you can open those packs and replenish them. I am doing something completely separate regarding S2 cards which will mean nothing if S3 doesn't occur. When S3 does begin I will try to get a list of the Legendaries and begin collecting them.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [9]:[/B][/COLOR]Oh, one thing I've been meaning to ask you. It's a very little thing but I'm curious. Why did you decide to bid one cent above junk value on all your puppets' cards? I rarely see others do that - whenever I see a 0.06 bid on an uncommon I almost immediately know it's yours :P
[COLOR=#006400][B]Mikeswill:[/B][/COLOR]I want to incentivize the Seller by bidding above junk. I know that in S1 I never sold at junk, instead taking the bank immediately instead of waiting an hour. I have since changed that policy giving someone else the opportunity to raise the Buy price.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [9]:[/B][/COLOR]Yeah - I can understand not bidding at JV. As small of an increase over JV as it is, the logic seems to follow from my experience. A lot of people do not honor JV bids.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [10]:[/B][/COLOR]Any advice for starter traders who are struggling to earn bank? Further, do you have insight on how to maintain the collection bank balance?
[COLOR=#006400][B]Mikeswill:[/B][/COLOR]One aspect of trading power is a decent Bank and building bank while building a collection is obviously counter-productive. What helped my in S1 was pulling a Farakhan and then selling it at peak which at the time was 800.00. Back then my goal was to never fall to 200.00. This season I have adjusted that figure to 2,000.00 (inflation). In order to do that it takes discipline to stop buying until such time your comfort threshold is met. On that note I am always rather amused when a Nation pulls a Legendary and immediately sells for less than MV. With players like KK and me, said player might get half the bank between his ask and MV. This is a short term satisfaction over long term gratification. Either wait for a MV trade or create interest by having a puppet but at MV.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [6]:[/B][/COLOR]With collecting legendaries, do you focus on building your ownership of any particular cards? Like CTEs or high value, or do you have any other landmarks you're working towards?
[COLOR=#006400][B]Mikeswill:[/B][/COLOR]Good question. As I already own every Legendary card I get to pick and choose which cards I will continue to buy. It is almost a guarantee that I will buy any Legendary whose MV is above 50.00. I do like S1 CTE Commons but as I have 5,000 already I'm not buying though I do have a project in the works which will see me move all of those cards to my main. In doing so I could buy extras. I am thinking of collecting every WA Nation in my Region. Since they have each endorsed me I ought to appreciate them more. I seem to be acquiring copies of my pups for future prosperity and am currently moving my S1 Epics to my main. Any card Gio has a 2.00 bid on goes to Utmost Brownies until such time as it is inflated and then gets sent to MikesHope - currently with 20K DV.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [6]:[/B][/COLOR]You mentioned how blowing past your deck capacity opened up your deck to larger and more personal collections. Can you talk about your thought process behind making that decision, and perhaps how others should face that decision?
[COLOR=#006400][B]Mikeswill:[/B][/COLOR]It simply made financial sense. I kept to my deck space limit of 2,000 cards into December 2020. Keep in mind I had to pay extensive bank to reach this amount although my starting point from the initial April 1 was extensive. Most serious traders I know had long passed their deck capacities giving them an advantage for growing their DV. What I had to over come was my previous comfort in being able to Gift high bank Legendary cards to my main and how to move future bank to my main. So I observed what other players were doing and gave it a go.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [9]:[/B][/COLOR]I realized semi recently that I’m sort of in the same position. My deck capacity is currently 900 and I’ve just started a collection that will assuredly cause me to think twice about expanding it any more. What are some things you’d recommend for those of us who are in the process of making that switch? I suppose, what are the things you observed people doing that made you feel comfortable with making the switch?
[COLOR=#006400][B]Mikeswill:[/B][/COLOR]My greatest challenge was transferring bank as I used 30 CTE cards in rotation. I had to get comfortable transferring large bank (500.00) in small increments (4.00). I watched Gio's inflationary tactics to get comfortable with large bank transfers. Additionally, I had a lot of S1 Commons that I knew would benefit me in the future but I didn't want to put them on the mark. Instead I moved 100 Legs to puppets, Gifted the 100 Commons, and then rebought the Legs - inflated of course. As such, I do my small transfers to MikesHope and Mikes Faith and then my large transfer at a later time. It also meant that I needed to be comfortable with my Bank spread amongst these Nations. All in all it is working out quite nicely.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [9]:[/B][/COLOR]That's good to hear. Definitely the piggybacking and transferring large amounts of bank and cards from my storage nations to my main is the part that I'm most hesitant about. I have over 100 copies between the three different cards I use for mass copy transfers, so I'm not really worried about that bit, but the large amounts of bank and stuff about transferring legs is very helpful. Thanks a lot!
[hr]
[size=150]Q&A with W&S[/SIZE]
[COLOR=#006400][B]W&S:[/B][/COLOR] Hi everyone and welcome!
Firstly, I’d like to give a huge THANK YOU to DGES for inviting me to speak at this event, and to 9003, McMasterdonia, Noah, and everyone else who was involved in making this possible. It is an incredible honor for me, as such a new trader, to be featured as a guest speaker at an event like this, and I am so incredibly grateful for the opportunity.
In many ways, this talk is going to be a contrasting viewpoint to Mikeswill’s, who spoke before me. We have very different backgrounds and the goal of this talk is both to provide a contrasting point of view and approach, as well as give new traders a chance to ask whatever questions they might have about how to either start out or transition into large-scale farming. While Mike and I have both been around NS since well before cards (though even there he has about a decade’s headstart on me), Mike has been involved in cards since day one, whereas I only picked up the trading card game in November. Mike does not really use scripts; I have been almost completely dependent on them to rise quickly. It is a good contrast, because while we have similar approaches to some aspects of the game, we have achieved our goals in very different ways. Though we oppose each other in other parts of NS, I have tremendous respect for his persistence and dedication and his commitment to honorable and respectful trading.
So what follows is my card origin story:
On November 26, 2020 I had about 5 bank worth of cards. I occasionally opened packs on my main, but I wasn’t really into it. I was playing on the TRR Minecraft server and putting most of my energy into that. The next day, November 27, some who were on the server (Dakota, Sakana, and Jamie among others) mentioned a pull event was going on.
What is a pull event? They didn’t tell me much except to answer issues on as many puppets as fast as I could and open packs.
So, like a total idiot, I joined in. I started furiously answering issues, manually, on all my puppets. And then, like magic (ha), a S1 Aleisyr appeared.
That was all it took. I was addicted to card farming. The feeling of opening legendary cards and getting so much bank for them was just… especially in government-mandated lockdown, it was that rush of serotonin I had so desperately been missing. It was truly an addiction. And even more so, just like in defending, I wanted to go as fast as humanly possible. Within a few days I discovered scripts, and within a couple of weeks I had tripled the size of my puppet army.
I documented my climb up the ladder. I achieved top 50 global in one month and top 20 global in 2 months. Currently I sit at number 18 on the global leaderboard, with a peak rank of #17. It was a torrid ascent up the rankings - 9003 commented recently that he had not seen anyone climb to page one of the rankings so quickly since the early days of cards.
Along the way, I also gained a reputation for two other things: collecting every single Season 2 legendary card within just a few weeks, and refusing to use MV inflation to maintain or gain deck value. Some others have ascended faster than me, only to see their deck value plummet as the cards that were propping them up deflated. Others have managed, through diversification and creativity, to maintain that ranking, but the community should know by now that I’m not a fan of inflated commons either way. But I digress. That is my story and my claim to fame.
But that is quite enough about me.
I just gave that introduction so y’all can know a little about my background and my position as a trader. But one of my biggest goals in this game is to help new traders access the market and cards they might not have the time or means to grind for. So now I want to hear from you! What do you want to know? I want this to be a no-judgment, no-question-is-dumb, new-trader-friendly space where you can ask me anything about how I gained deck value so quickly, what strategies I used in auctions, or what you can do to either start out in card trading, or make the transition from new player to elite trader.
So with that, enough of my ranting and raving. Let the Q&A begin! I will be happy to answer any questions today, tomorrow, up to the end of the event, or even after.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [1]:[/B][/COLOR] Would you farm if you were away from your computer and on your phone or another device without your scripts?
[COLOR=#006400][B]W&S:[/B][/COLOR] It would certainly be hard for me to keep my interest or have as many nations as I do now. When I started one of the main reasons I switched to scripts was because I went on a huge dry spell without finding any pull event cards or any legendaries at all in around 400 nations. I was really demotivated by that and I wanted to find a point at which my luck would sort of average out.
Still, I think my perspective has changed somewhat now. When I started I farmed to try and get cards; now I farm to get bank. That I think is something a lot of new players could learn from - and something that might keep me motivated in a world where I didn't have scripts. Farming is best for getting bank, not cards.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [2]:[/B][/COLOR] How were you motivated to do cards for that long?
[COLOR=#006400][B]W&S:[/B][/COLOR] I had goals. They were lofty goals, but I was making measurable progress. As long as I was making progress that I could see, I continued to be motivated. Every time I added a S2 legendary to the collection or passed another person in DV, it only fueled my desire to reach higher.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [3]:[/B][/COLOR] When you talk about respectful trading, what are some tips you'd give to newer traders so that they don't accidentally (and unintentionally) step on anyone's toes?
[COLOR=#006400][B]W&S:[/B][/COLOR] The main thing is paying attention to who is taking part in the auction and what you know about them. Is it a main and a known puppet of theirs? Do they have a standing, unmatched bid? Is it a collector trying to buy a card that you don't also need for a collection?
In general it is okay to make mistakes and accidentally step on people's toes, and a lot of the big players will understand if a new player doesn't know. Usually you'll know if that's happened when you get a telegram or a discord ping from someone like "hey that's my transfer". :P
As long as you acknowledge the mistake, the no-harm-no-foul rule applies if you correct it and don't make a habit of getting in the same person's way repeatedly.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [4]:[/B][/COLOR] How do you find time for cards during the day? Do you go and sit and do all daily card stuff at once? Or split it into few parts? Do you have any tips (other than gold retriever and issue script) to save time during doing cards?
[COLOR=#006400][B]W&S:[/B][/COLOR] It really depends on the day. Some days, especially when I'm not working at my IRL job, I will spend hours at a time just spamming enter for as long as I feel like. But more recently I have found that for the sake of my personal health and well-being, especially as the days get warmer here in Austria, I've been splitting it up, so I'll do however many I want, then go outside or walk or go to the store, then come back and finish whatever card work I was doing that day.
I'll also often combine tasks; like when I'm doing a mass-copy transfer, I'll usually also do some farming to both condense the tasks into the same timeframe while also having a chance to TCALS another copy of the card.
Hotkeys are really helpful. If you don't have 9003's hotkey tool, get it. Pressing F to flip, J to junk etc is way faster than clicking. :P
I also like to place "reminder asks" on low-owner commons or uncommons I think would make good piggyback-transfer cards, so if I find a second copy of it I will see that I own another copy of that card, and then be able to hold onto both copies in the inevitable eventuality that I need to start doing a lot more piggybacking (when I run out of deck space).
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [4]:[/B][/COLOR] And a bonus question:
Do you open your packs asap or do you collect them and open when you have X amount? What is more satisfying to you? :D
[COLOR=#006400][B]W&S:[/B][/COLOR] I always open packs right away. Saving packs is pointless for me. I get that some people wanna save them for S3, I just don't feel the need to.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [5]:[/B][/COLOR] (Who knows if we’re even gonna get a S3 tbh.)
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [4]:[/B][/COLOR] Oh and didn't mean S3. Rather like - do you prefer to eat one cookie a day or a cake at the weekend? :D
[COLOR=#006400][B]W&S:[/B][/COLOR] Farming is eating the whole cake for me. I need that serotonin immediately. :P
I have so many nations that farming by itself is the cake, lol.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [1]:[/B][/COLOR] How's the S1 Legendary Collection going?
[COLOR=#006400][B]W&S:[/B][/COLOR] 55/184. Been on a bit of a hiatus lately. Trying to kick it back into gear soonish. S1 legendaries are HARD O.o
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [1]:[/B][/COLOR] Meanwhile me at 18..
[COLOR=#006400][B]W&S:[/B][/COLOR] LOL :P yeah I did add another to the collection just now! TUMS sniped one of them because I wasn't looking but I'm ok with not fighting TUMS all the time, lol.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [1]:[/B][/COLOR] What's your preferred method of transfer?
[COLOR=#006400][B]W&S:[/B][/COLOR] Mass copy. 100% mass copy is my favorite.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [4]:[/B][/COLOR] What is flipping?
[COLOR=#006400][B]W&S:[/B][/COLOR] Flipping has two meanings. Flipping over the cards when you open the pack is what I was talking about.
But flipping also means buying a card for a low price and immediately turning around and listing it for higher.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [4]:[/B][/COLOR] Oh, then I'm weird. I open packs, don't flip and keep opening packs until I open all without looking at cards so I have a nice surprise if I get a TEP Card / high MV / Leg ;D
[COLOR=#006400][B]W&S:[/B][/COLOR] Ah, you're like HS then. HS does the same thing.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [1]:[/B][/COLOR] How does your timezone affect your pull event availability?
[COLOR=#006400][B]W&S:[/B][/COLOR] For US based pull events it is usually quite good. Most take place in the afternoon in the US, which is evening for me. Perfect. But evening in the US is like 3 A.M. for me usually :P
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [1]:[/B][/COLOR] If you're in a pull event who has time to look at what you pull? Lol.
[COLOR=#006400][B]W&S:[/B][/COLOR] Me because I need that rush.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [4]:[/B][/COLOR] If you could speak to yourself from time when you started doing cards, what advice would you give yourself?
[COLOR=#006400][B]W&S:[/B][/COLOR] Ooooo, that is a good question. The biggest piece of advice would be to not beat myself up over losing out in an auction or going on a long streak without a particular card. On that note, maybe the best answer is that farming is for getting bank, not cards. One of the most demotivating things as I was starting out as a trader was going on long dry streaks without finding a legendary or a card of the type I wanted. On the one hand it made me hungry to make more puppets, but in that quest I may have overextended myself from time to time.
When you farm cards, really you are farming bank to buy the cards you want. Bank is the most important piece of leverage in auctions and the most important thing when it comes to doing what you want to with cards. It does feel good to get that card you want in a pack, but just like IRL TCGs (i was a semi competitive magic the gathering player for a while), it is usually far easier and cheaper to just buy the card. Unless there is a pull event. Pull events are the exception. :P
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [1]:[/B][/COLOR] How's TSP's card program going?
[COLOR=#006400][B]W&S:[/B][/COLOR] It's good! Got a little slowed down because Vietnam and I were both running for Cabinet, but we are expecting it to kick back into high gear here in the extremely near future. I've put several thousand bank's worth of cards and bank into it, and I'm really excited for what we will be able to offer in terms of programming and rewards for those who join. We've spent a ton of time and energy planning this and I think it will go really well.
(That is also the main reason for the hiatus I mentioned in the answer to your previous question.)
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [4]:[/B][/COLOR] How do you suggest one should prepare for a pull event? I've never participated in one so any advice is probably cool :D
[COLOR=#006400][B]W&S:[/B][/COLOR] Make sure all your nations have 5 issues and then just answer them! The most important thing is having a full slate of issues, not card packs, because TCALS only works for a very short time after you receive the pack. You need to open it right away in order to have a chance to pull the card at auction.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [4]:[/B][/COLOR] Oh interesting. I didn’t know that.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [6]:[/B][/COLOR] Do you get your DV from magic?
[COLOR=#006400][B]W&S:[/B][/COLOR] Yes.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [6]:[/B][/COLOR] Knew it.
Abra cadabra, summonus Testlandus!
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [1]:[/B][/COLOR] Testlandia's DV just plummeted 100 bank >>>
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [4]:[/B][/COLOR] I’ma try that.
Abra cadabra, sommonus Xorietus!
[COLOR=#006400][B]W&S:[/B][/COLOR] Sad she isn’t here :’(
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [1]:[/B][/COLOR] What do you believe is key to driving regional engagement in cards?
[COLOR=#006400][B]W&S:[/B][/COLOR] Accessibility, approachability, and good incentives for participation. I think that is one of the things that has gotten people to be interested in TSP's org - we've kept our cards planning channel pretty open to people who want to help out, and we've run giveaways and especially pull events already on rare and unique cards that aren't often featured. So it gives people a chance to get something they wouldn't have been able to get otherwise. And that is a really big part of driving interest, I think.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [7]:[/B][/COLOR] Who got you into cards?
[COLOR=#006400][B]W&S:[/B][/COLOR] That is a little complicated. Certainly the event that sent me off the deep end was TNP's Aleisyr pull event, which I believe you, Dakota, and Sakana told me I should try. But there is a laundry list of people that were prodding me to try it for a while - you three and HumanSanity were probably the ones that did the most damage though. :P
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [4]:[/B][/COLOR] HS does cards? o.O
[COLOR=#006400][B]W&S:[/B][/COLOR] "Does cards" is a strong way of phrasing his tendency to lie dormant for weeks at a time until he decides to wake up and pull 6 copies of a card without realizing it in a pull event.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [8]:[/B][/COLOR] Other than Legendaries, are there other cards that you're interested in collecting?
[COLOR=#006400][B]W&S:[/B][/COLOR] I will be doing a collection for Founderless in season 3. Otherwise - usually I just collect friends and prominent defenders and gameplayers. And my own Season 1 puppets. A ton of my nations have S1 ex-nation flags. :P
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [9]:[/B][/COLOR] Considering that the market is only increasing, do you think the barriers of entry (into the market) are also only increasing?
[COLOR=#006400][B]W&S:[/B][/COLOR] Certainly the barriers to gaining ranks quickly are increasing as more traders get interested and the inflation meta is taking over. And Season 1 cards are much harder to come by than they were even a few months ago. But Season 2 cards, especially legendaries, are continuing to balloon in supply, so it is actually getting (IMO) far easier to collect sought-after cards, since supply is only going up for Season 2.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [10]:[/B][/COLOR] How to get Testlandia?
[COLOR=#006400][B]W&S:[/B][/COLOR] IDK, just farm more :P - I pulled one today.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [10]:[/B][/COLOR] Oh this isn't Card Google, sorry.
[COLOR=#006400][B]W&S:[/B][/COLOR] It’s ok; I’m used to being treated like a search engine :’o
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [10]:[/B][/COLOR] What do you recommend for players like me who are currently not really farming but want to up their card game?
[COLOR=#006400][B]W&S:[/B][/COLOR] So the main thing before you really get going is ask yourself what you want to do. What are your goals? What sort of cards do you want to collect? Do you just want to focus purely on deck value? Or is there a rarity of card you like? Or a region? Or a flag? These are all questions that can guide you. The thing that really got me going was having concrete and achievable DV, rank, and collection goals. I said OK I want top 500 by X date - got that, now I want top 10 TSP by x date, and I wrote these things down. I still have a note in my phone with all my rank milestone dates.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [9]:[/B][/COLOR] How many farms are considered "bare minimum" for someone who is attempting to start farming a decent collection (of say...all nations in a 100+ member UCR)? Or, in your opinion, this minimum doesn't exist?
[COLOR=#006400][B]W&S:[/B][/COLOR] I don’t think there really is a minimum - you can achieve something like that with very few nations. The number of farms you have only affects the speed with which you get the necessary bank and cards, not your ability to collect them.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [9]:[/B][/COLOR] So if I can't collect cards like everyday, maybe I could consider having more puppets? (To make up for it?)
[COLOR=#006400][B]W&S:[/B][/COLOR] I mean, that depends on the time you want to dedicate to it. If you want to put a lot of hours into farming every day and collecting cards quickly, absolutely. If you only have a little bit of time, then having 1000 nations to farm every single day probably isn’t feasible.
One of the reasons I was able to go so ham in December and January is because I had an absolutely insane amount of time and not much else to do with it. I couldn’t leave my apartment except to walk along the river and go to the grocery store.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [8]:[/B][/COLOR] Having completed the S2 Legendary set, and not being a mass hoarder of the entire rarity, what is your approach to selling duplicate copies received from farming? I understand the "Farrakhan" approach to dump for whatever bids are present contributes to deflation and newbies getting dropped by KK/Mikeswill. Though I've also seen asks below MV sitting for weeks (either unwanted or unknown about). Does a middle-path exist, or what thoughts do you have on selling Legendaries?
[COLOR=#006400][B]W&S:[/B][/COLOR] My approach to selling is that I basically keep all the cards unless I see that someone is looking for one, or I see a reasonable bid. There are only a few legendary cards that I hoard - notably Glen-Rhodes and Pencil Sharpeners 2. otherwise I just keep what i find unless someone is specifically looking for them.
Eventually I will look to increase my market share on a lot more legendary cards, but that is a long way off. I've moved on to collecting Season 1 legendary cards for now.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [8]:[/B][/COLOR] Mikeswill has mentioned how blowing past their deck limit has allowed them to gather more cards of their friends. You said you want to collect your friends' cards, do you intend to blow past your deck limit?
[COLOR=#006400][B]W&S:[/B][/COLOR] Basically the only reason I increased my deck limit for a while is because it made it easier to send myself legendary cards and others I liked that I got from farming. I don't anticipate doing that for much longer - I plan to use one of my existing nations as a storage nation for bank, transfer cards, etc, and then start transferring things to my main. I think the magic number will be 1000 cards - once I hit that I will stop increasing my deck limit and just blow past it.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [11]:[/B][/COLOR] What would be your advice to any new players that want to collect all legendaries?
[COLOR=#006400][B]W&S:[/B][/COLOR] Great question! First thing is that you need bank and a lot of it. Yes, it's possible to get most of the legendaries by farming, but that takes a lot of time and you can't collect them all that way.
Unfortunately, buying legendaries means dealing with a lot of traders who have a lot more resources than you. Mostly Koem Kab and Mikeswill, but also flippers, MV sharks, and others looking to make money. The most important thing for legendary auctions is to know that you will almost always be at a disadvantage in terms of leverage, and will thus need to know how and when to cut your losses.
My favorite strategy, because I have a strong distaste for long auctions, was to match a below-MV ask, and then whenever KK or someone else with a leverage advantage showed up and overbid me, just bid straight to MV and allow them to drop me there. Thus I would get the card at or near its market value, and they would make a profit from the drop. Everyone gets what they want.
The golden rule is to never, ever, ever bid more than you are willing to buy a card for, and likewise never, ever, ever ask less than you are willing to sell a card for. That is how you lose money.
Still, for some high value CTE cards like Ramaeus, Caelapes, NERVUN, Altmer Dominion, Drasnia, etc., pull events are your best friend. Those cards are extremely expensive because they are well-known players who CTEd, and thus quantities are limited. Finding sellers is hard, and when someone is willing to sell it is often for very high prices.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [11]:[/B][/COLOR] You said that the best way is to match a below-MV ask first, then allow people to drop you. What if there isn't an ask below MV? What should people do then?
[COLOR=#006400][B]W&S:[/B][/COLOR] If there isn't an ask below MV, you are often safe from getting dropped. Koem Kab usually does not get involved in auctions going on at or slightly above MV.
If the auction is significantly above MV (say, a Season 1 legendary with an MV of 25 that is being sold for 50), he will often placea bid and ask of his own to inflate the card, but he will not fight or drop you. He is only inflating his own deck value more by creating a second match, so for your sake it's benign.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [12]:[/B][/COLOR] [In response to Event Participant #11’s question] Get a friend (or several) with farms that are willing to donate spares to you. ;P
[COLOR=#006400][B]W&S:[/B][/COLOR] Having friends helps a LOT. :P
I got Ramaeus, Altmer Dominion, Nova Hollandia, and several other hard-to-find ones from gifts. And YOU gifted me my Soops. <_<
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [13]:[/B][/COLOR] For Season 3, do you think we can expect an increase or decrease in legendary cards?
[COLOR=#006400][B]W&S:[/B][/COLOR] That’s a really good question. I think in the short term Season 2 legendaries will go up, but there are so many copies of most of them that I don’t know how far. The thing about the S2 leg market is that there is just so much supply especially compared to S1. I notice this the more and more I try to hunt for season 1 legs - supply simply far outpaces demand in the S2 market.
Still, if the continuous influx of new copies slows, we can at least expect the general deflation to slow as well.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [12]:[/B][/COLOR] [In response to Event Participant #13’s question] Do you mean the value of legendaries or the number of them in circulation? Going by previous seasons, they're fixed at 0.1% of all nations at the time of the snapshot, so we'll be seeing ~240 of them for S3 based on the current number of nations.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [13]:[/B][/COLOR] Number in circulation; sorry if that was unclear.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [12]:[/B][/COLOR] No, your question was clear; I wouldn't have assumed you were talking about value. :P
[COLOR=#006400][B]W&S:[/B][/COLOR] Oh, sorry. I did assume it was the value. I was also extremely tired and had drank about half a bottle of wine that evening. :P
But [Event Participant #12] is right. Both previous seasons had 0.1% of all cards as legendary. So I would expect a significant increase for S3.
[hr]
[size=150]Q&A with The Salaxalans[/SIZE]
[COLOR=#006400][B]The Salaxalans:[/B][/COLOR]
**Potatoes and Branding**
*"When you are the potatoes guy everyone is like, 'Yeah, it's the potatoes guy!'" - Max Barry*
Welcome one and all to the Potato portion of the Cards Symposium! Thank you to the North Pacific Card Guild for hosting this Symposium, and thank you to DGES for inviting me to speak on a most important topic. There can never be enough potatoes, after all!
For those of you who don’t know me, I’ve been playing NS since late 2012, with most of my time spent in Spiritus. I was always friendly with people from outside the region, and Spiritus had some minor prominence in assorted NS events. Then, five years ago, the first Secretary-General election occurred. I saw that the event had begun, and had the following sequence of thoughts: “Oh an election! I should run! Hmm… What should my campaign be… Uh… Potatoes!!!” And thus a brand was born. I spent the entire election screaming nonstop about potatoes, narrowly losing in the final round. From this point on, potatoes were a frequent theme for me and by extension Spiritus. Our government now has assorted potato-themed titles, in NS events we usually have a potato-themed name, in the second Secretary-General election I was Kuriko’s running mate and potatoes became featured prominently in the platform, and recently in Spiritus we even held a potato pardon where I drew faces on two potatoes and everyone in Spiritus could vote on which to pardon. The other, unfortunately, was smashed with a hammer.
Of course, potatoes are a silly thing to base an identity on. But that’s exactly why it works: potatoes are simple, kind of funny, easy to grasp. Taking an idea and running with it to the furthest extent possible until you are entirely associated with it, that gives you an identity so that people know who you are even if you’ve never met. Spiritus and I have embraced the potato as a symbol of whimsy and friendliness, infusing our region and interactions with others with those characteristics. It has become a great tool for diplomacy, recently uniting many regions under the banner of the Potato Alliance for N-Day, helping us to forge relationships with regions we previously didn’t know as well, bonding over potatoes and our shared hopes of victory. The yelling and cheering about potatoes rarely let up for the entire 24 hours; such a spudly display had never been seen before! The ultimate culmination of the potato brand was Max Barry talking about it a little bit in an author Q&A livestream several months ago, and soon after sending me a “Special Potato Edition” signed copy of Providence, his newest book. All it takes is screaming about the same food item for several years nonstop!
Now, this is a cards symposium, so I suppose I have to bring this around to cards somehow! As many of you may be aware I have been collecting all potato-related cards. Anything with potato flags, nation names, or quotes, I want them all! Aside from collecting cards from my region and somewhat passively trying to collect staff cards, potatoes are the main goal. Deck value is of no interest to me, I’m just trying to be silly and collect my potatoes! This has resulted in my looking at cards from an entirely different perspective; I only recently started making some more nations so I could farm more effectively, and I have yet to use any scripts. Potato farming is the only goal, something silly and fun that isn’t too stressful. I can hang out with everyone collecting cards, see all the wackiness going on, but not get caught up in any stress from complicated trades or high level deals. It’s quite peaceful, and fascinating to see what goes on not having to worry about anything affecting me! Of course, being an admin in the cards server means I do have to actually know what’s going on, but I’ve tried to carry the whimsical and friendly potato attitude from Spiritus to the NS Cards server as well, keeping it a light-hearted place where everyone can hang out and have fun.
In short, the humble potato went from a meme campaign pledge, to a personal and regional brand, to a mindset and attitude brought to interregional interactions, card collecting, and NS in general. It’s difficult, in NS, to separate Spiritus or myself from potatoes, providing a way for all to know us. Branding is important; taking a simple brand and running with it can lead to great renown or at least, in the case of the potato, bemused bewilderment.
Thank you all for reading, and do not forget: A potato for all!
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [1]:[/B][/COLOR] What species of potato is your favourite and can you crest a brand name you can utilise to your advantage?
[COLOR=#006400][B]The Salaxalans:[/B][/COLOR] I love all potatoes equally!
And Potato Alliance has been a pretty good brand name so far. :P
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [2]:[/B][/COLOR] How do you find all potato cards? (What methods do you use to effectively find cards that would probably only been found in packs otherwise?)
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [3]:[/B][/COLOR] (All potatoes are equal, but some are more equal than others.)
[COLOR=#006400][B]The Salaxalans:[/B][/COLOR] TNP's Card Queries tool has been vital. I did searches for everything I could think of, with obvious things like "potato" or "tater" but also "fries" or "tato", anything that might be referring to potatoes. Recently I realized that a lot of cards relating to fast food restaurants might contain potatoes because there will be fries if the flag shows a meal, so I searched for those as well. In addition I rely on people noticing cards that have a potato only in their flag; there's no way to search for those but periodically people who know I want potatoes will notice one.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [4]:[/B][/COLOR] Since we all know your favourite vegetable, what's your least favourite?
[COLOR=#006400][B]The Salaxalans:[/B][/COLOR] Brussels sprouts. >_<
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [5]:[/B][/COLOR] They're not that bad; eggplants are worse.
[COLOR=#006400][B]The Salaxalans:[/B][/COLOR] Oooh.
Hmmm.
You might be right.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [5]:[/B][/COLOR] Fellow eggplant hater! ^_^
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [6]:[/B][/COLOR] I've always been curious about this one thing. :O
What's your opinion/thoughts/feelings on the mention of your potato card collection in your commendation Morover authored?
(Specifically the following clause: "The collection of a massive amount of artwork commemorating the starchy food, the full assemblage of which is valued at an astronomical price")
[COLOR=#006400][B]The Salaxalans:[/B][/COLOR] I thought it was wonderful. xD
Official recognition of potatoes is a great thing!
[hr]
[size=150]Q&A with Atlae[/SIZE]
[COLOR=#006400][B]Atlae:[/B][/COLOR] Hey all. I’m Atlae.
I joined NationStates in February 2016, so it’s been almost five years on this stupid game. Last night, at the behest of friends, I found myself addicted to another card-based minigame, Magic the Gathering. :P - But until I leave cards forever with a huge giveaway I’ll still be in NationStates, The East Pacific, and cards for now. I joined the cards server on March 18 of 2020, probably at the behest of y0, but didn’t start collecting until April. My deck value really took off in May due to the Loop pull event. You may know me as the guy who’s collecting all TEP Cards (S1 is 85% complete, S2 is 93% complete as I’m writing this), or a member of Big Farma, or, for the purpose of this lecture, Deputy Steward of TEAPOT, The Eastern Association of Pacifican Ornamental Traders. I understand that my lecture, how to grow a regional organization, may be a bit strange considering that this Cards Symposium is hosted by the TNP Card Guild, who are doing a great job in many respects and probably know more about building an organization than I do. Nevertheless, I hope this lecture can be of use to you all.
The story about how I got into cards and how TEP got into cards is pretty interesting. It was April 2018, under Queen Yuno’s Delegacy, when cards were introduced. For the months leading up to April, we in the TEP government had been plotting. Finally, on March 18th, “Liberate The East Pacific” was proposed. On March 23rd, the Eastern Loligarchical Order (ELO) was formed, bringing in a whole new era of Francoism. But it was all a silly prank and fooled quite a few people, some of whom are now in power today. It was kind of stressful behind the scenes but it was enjoyable being on the other side of it. We really thought we’d done a better prank than what Max Barry could pull. And frankly, trading cards? That didn’t seem all that interesting, to be honest.
Of course, there were still traders in The East Pacific. Many had holdovers from April 1, but some like VW53aland were actively trading. For a while, Queen Yuno was probably at the top of DV charts in The East Pacific. But cards was never a thing that could unite a community like regional government or R/D could. It’s hard collecting data about this since the DMZ (server under Yuno and Fedele) was archived and I didn’t think to ask to reopen it until this lecture. Maybe I’ll ask and receive more information about the history of cards in The East Pacific, but for the purposes of this lecture let’s assume that cards weren’t really prevalent in The East Pacific until Season 2.
In December of 2019, some nerd named Evrigenis or y0 joined The East Pacific. Like the nerd he is, he got addicted to cards and got his friends to collect them as well. By late February 2020, he had started a “farming operation.” The group chat that would eventually become TEAPOT was formed on March 9th and added people one at a time over the course of a few months. Of course, that time was the pandemic, which probably freed up a lot of time for some people, like me.
y0 probably was the one who created the channel #ns-trading-cards in TEP’s server. That’s where I probably first got into cards. At this point, I had a bunch of leftover R/D puppets that I would farm, and I would choose each option manually (based on the number on the puppet mod number of options). Then I got into scripting, which made my life a lot easier and probably changed my life the most but we can talk about that another day. I shared these with my fellow East Pacifican farmers, albeit with some questionable advice (I mentioned that I put a walkie-talkie on the enter button to hold it down).
In late May, y0 also ran a pull event on the legendary very epic figure of 1 Infinite Loop, widely considered the founder of The East Pacific. Unfortunately, due to blocks (a time before TCALS nerfs when we didn’t know much) we got 2 pulls, one of which was me. That probably jumpstarted me into cards.
A few weeks later in June, we discussed the future of our little card farmers’ group. For the 10th slot in our group chat, we invited Sakana, who was this large figure in cards in TEP that I guess (I was probably intimidated by her and her place in the community lol) Sidenote, but Sakana was one of the reasons I got into cards in the first place. I almost heisted her once during a transfer but she still was nice to me and encouraged me. Thanks Sak!
Anyway, we decided to be our own separate, independent, non-governmental organization. This probably sets TEAPOT apart from many other card organizations because theirs is a ministry or a fully integrated part of the government. It was sort of modeled after TNP’s card guild, but then they made their Ministry of Cards so uh honestly I don’t know if it made a difference or not.
Reading through the old chats, I smile with nostalgia when we decided to choose names. Cards Bureau, Cards Mafia, Cards Agricultural Department… It looks like I suggested the acronym TEAPOT and Sakana filled in the blanks. I’m also proud to say I designed the TEAPOT logo (I also redesigned it this year) but my proposal for the TEAPOT flag was bad and I’m glad it wasn’t approved.
Growing TEAPOT was maybe a little hard first. After gaining legitimacy through a Magisterium resolution, our opus memorandi was to contact some of the traders in TEP to get them to join. Well, mostly people from outside TEP came into join at first, because card organizations!
The first major thing that TEAPOT did was in September, organizing the Tea House of Cards festival with Lazarus and XKI. It was a cards festival not unlike this here Cards Symposium, actually, with pull events, games, and all that. Great minds think alike? :P
After the Tea House of Cards festival, TEAPOT has been holding monthly pull events and will soon start giveaways soon. In almost 9 months, TEAPOT has grown to about 30 people. I don’t know how much people other cards organizations have gotten, but I’d assume we’re doing pretty well. The North Pacific’s Cards Guild has 90 people, but they have had a nice head start and everything. Well deserved too.
It seems that regional card organizations are now really in vogue. While I don’t know everything about each region’s motivations in cards, I would guess that this is due to an increased focus on cards being a community endeavor rather than something a few farmers somewhere can rack up without serving any real purpose to the game. I know that regions like The Pacific, The South Pacific, and The Rejected Realms have created their own cards organizations and hosted pull events as well.
To all the new cards organizations out there (and DavanteAdams, hi!) I encourage you to band together like XKI, Laz, and TEP did earlier. Everyone will start out small, so working together will get you where you need to go in terms of human capital. In addition, you’ll meet all sorts of new people and perspectives and might even boost foreign relations. This may have the downside of cards politicking but unfortunately there’s not much I can do about that.
In addition, I’d suggest reaching out to small farmers starting out in your region. You’re not going to find people just by going down the DV leaderboard. What you need is a community who can eventually grow and find their own niche in trading. A regional telegram works if you want to go the lazy way about this. :stuck_out_tongue:
One thing I would honestly say TEAPOT has struggled with (this is the same with many other cards organizations) is that sometimes, it seems like a group of people that hosts pull events now and again. Pull events are great, of course, but they aren’t everything. Also, anybody with a lot of bank these days can hold a pull event, no regional organization required. Thus, once an organization has its footing, try and diversify. Card giveaways are really trendy now, games like scavenger hunts, etc. Always look for new ideas.
Overall, I think that the space for regional cards organizations is growing. Our good friends in The North Pacific have reigned as the most powerful region in terms of cards for a while, but in a year or a few years this may change. I’m eager to see what new cards organizations will thrive and how this will effect the meta of the trading cards minigame.
Thank you for reading, and I will try and answer any and all questions you may have. It can be about TEAPOT, about me, anything really I guess.
Further reading:
y0 and Gr
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [1]:[/B][/COLOR] What would you recommend for a fledgling regional card organisation to focus on? (Special consideration to pitfalls that TEAPOT may have fallen in/narrowly avoided.)
[COLOR=#006400][B]Atlae:[/B][/COLOR] The most important thing in my view for a regional organization - of any regional organization really is outreach. One reason why is because it's for the very survival of an organization. At the core an organization is a group of people. Over time this group of people will shrink unless you find a way to increase the amount of people. Thus you have to think long term about what things will get people into the organization. That's where you think of things like pull events and games.
Another reason is because it benefits the cards minigame as a whole. For the most part, adding more people into the game makes it better. You might be annoyed at the MV sharks, but they indisputably made the game more interesting. And if you really hate them, convince them not to when they join your organization.
I realize that I forgot to mention something that TEAPOT struggled with. It's important to have some form of conflict resolution or mediation procedure. Although we did have anti-heist clauses in our charter, we didn't count for people deflating other people's cards to deflate their DV. Now whether that is a thing that needs to be adjudicated is honestly up to the community to decide.
I also regret not doing other events with TEAPOT, since I mostly just held pull events once a month.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [2]:[/B][/COLOR] It was mentioned that many of the initial members of TEAPOT were from other regions which helped the organisation grow in the initial period, what other advantages have you seen from the more relaxed membership requirements?
[COLOR=#006400][B]Atlae:[/B][/COLOR] Buffed membership stats. :P
In particular, 9003 and Racoda came into TEAPOT pretty early on. They helped with scripts and other materials like farming guides.
Overall you will probably get like card cosmos in your organization. That's good as long as they actually contribute. Otherwise it gives you a false sense of success when you don't have people from your own region in your org.
[COLOR=#006400][B]Atlae:[/B][/COLOR] ...I'm bored and like to hear myself talk, do you have any questions about me specifically? :P
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [2]:[/B][/COLOR] What was the motivation behind starting a regional collection?
[COLOR=#006400][B]Atlae:[/B][/COLOR] For a few months I didn't think I'd be able to do it. I probably started because hey, I know some of these people.
I think Vylixan had something to do with it; seemed like a cool thing to do and I had a lot of new time on my hands with COVID.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [3]:[/B][/COLOR] How did you choose the nation name ‘The Atlae Isles’?
[COLOR=#006400][B]Atlae:[/B][/COLOR] It was a long time ago. It's hard to think of names.
I wanted to go "Atlantis", but of course that didn't exist.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [3]:[/B][/COLOR] Cards question now - Other than TEP S3 - do you have any particular one goal in mind for when S3 hits?
[COLOR=#006400][B]Atlae:[/B][/COLOR] Well I plan on collecting mottoes too.
Probably stockpiling specific cards to use as mass transfers and hoard legendaries.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [4]:[/B][/COLOR] Atlae, for S3 I should give you my card and you should treasure it like gold!
[COLOR=#006400][B]Atlae:[/B][/COLOR] How much will it cost?
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [4]:[/B][/COLOR] F r e e.
[COLOR=#006400][B]Atlae:[/B][/COLOR] The card will be worth 0.00?
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [4]:[/B][/COLOR] Ohhh. I thought you meant how much will it cost you lol.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [3]:[/B][/COLOR] So, since you like questions about yourself, have you always been a legend of Zelda fan?
[COLOR=#006400][B]Atlae:[/B][/COLOR] Well I really got into it in 9th grade.
So like 4 years ago.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [3]:[/B][/COLOR] Do you have any Zelda themed puppet sets?
[COLOR=#006400][B]Atlae:[/B][/COLOR] Check Atlae-1 to Atlae-200.
Mipha, Champion Daruk, Champion Revali, Lady Urbosa are all Zelda themed.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [3]:[/B][/COLOR] :D
Thanks for answering. ^_^
[COLOR=#006400][B]Atlae:[/B][/COLOR] Np!
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [5]:[/B][/COLOR] Is it possible to create a bank in Nationstates?
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [6]:[/B][/COLOR] Only by junking or selling cards.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [5]:[/B][/COLOR] Ah.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [6]:[/B][/COLOR] No way will there be an option to buy any.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [5]:[/B][/COLOR] Would it be worth it?
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [6]:[/B][/COLOR] No, it'd just become a pay to win on the card market.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [7]:[/B][/COLOR] Agreed.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [5]:[/B][/COLOR] I meant a bank set up by private players.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [6]:[/B][/COLOR] How would that even work?
[COLOR=#006400][B]Atlae:[/B][/COLOR] [In response to Event Participant #5’s question] Probably. I don't know enough about banks but theoretically people could.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [3]:[/B][/COLOR] What is next for you in NS, generally?
[COLOR=#006400][B]Atlae:[/B][/COLOR] Couping TRR
Idk really.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [3]:[/B][/COLOR] “Time to junk those TEP cards you have bids on.”
[COLOR=#006400][B]Atlae:[/B][/COLOR] Nuuu.
[hr]
[size=150]Farrakhan's Lecture[/SIZE]
"But one man's rubbish may be another's treasure, and what is the standard of value in such a pursuit as this?"
-Hector Urquhart 'Popular Tales of the West Highlands''
As-Salaam Alaikum
One of the great things about the NS Card Trading Mini-Game is its open-ended nature. Players can engage as often or as little as they like, choose their own goals, and find their levels of satisfaction. My chosen style focuses on making a market for my card and managing the challenges that come with it. Back in 2019, I played for the short-term, intending to land the Top Deck Value before the end of the year. In four months, I managed the Farrakhan Season 1 card to around 500 MV, with purchases at a peak ranging between 400-800 Bank, eventually reaching my goal. For those interested, you can read more about the details of my earlier system in-The Monthly Snapshot - Issue 2 (Trader of the Month/Interview).
When I decided to return to active play last Summer with a new campaign, my goal was to rejuvenate the Farrakhan Season 1 card, reach 100 total copies, outperform the Legendary cards whose MV I had previously failed to displace, and score the top MV among all actively traded cards in the game (not including expired transfer cards). It took several months but on the day of this review (1/30/2021), I finally reached my magic number of 100 copies, and have peaked at an MV of 1,126, completing my goal!
In this write-up, I will offer my thoughts on the ways a player can operate as a Market Maker for their card, discuss some of the challenges that are inherent within the structure of the game, share my experiences using certain strategies, and discuss different metrics players can use to evaluate a Market Maker managed Card as a potential store of value.
The Impossible Trinity
The challenges inherent in making a market for a Card, are similar to that of managing a currency in the FOREX market. Commitment to certain actions will limit the potentiality of others. Every moment of the game, NS players face three conflicting options:
Maintain Bank with full liquidity
Provide Undivided Support for a Position
Retain Flexibility to Support Multiple Positions simultaneously
By definition, focus on any one element will nullify the ability to carry out the other two options. For example, Leg 1 of the triangle (retaining a fully liquid Bank) will prevent a player from placing Standing Bids and/or stepping into a live auction. Leg 2 (Making a Market) inhibits taking on additional outside positions and makes bank capital less liquid. Leg 3 (flexibility to pursue multiple positions) weakens the potential to act as a Market Maker and commits liquid Bank into the market. No player can escape the Impossible Trinity, we can only set goals and manage with-in the framework. Failure to effectively balance and navigate the limitations imposed by this trilemma will often lead to severe consequences: Bank Insolvency, Crashes in Market Value, Boom/Bust Cycles in Total Deck Value, inability to fulfill collection needs, etc. Player beware.
From the standpoint of my experiences playing as a Market Maker, the main trade-off has come from Leg 3 (flexibility/diversity in building a collection). With a focus on using Capital Formation to fund Bank, I willingly sacrificed appreciation of the artistic aspects of the game, using Card Farming to liquidate positions for future investment. At times, I have focused nearly exclusively on Leg 1, which delayed the fulfillment of goals that could only be brought about through Leg 2 (ie. realizing maximum Deck Value, actualizing near-term Farrakhan S1/S2 MV potential). I have used a Reserve Bank( Gold Crescent Alistan)to build a second Market Maker position in Farrakhan S2, and a Treasury( FMM1)to help manage Farrakhan S1, but elements of Leg 3 don't stretch far beyond that in my system. Keep these types of trade-offs in mind when measuring if my methods would align with what makes the game enjoyable for you.
Advice For Beginners Acting As A Market Maker
Whether you are a long-time player, an experienced player who recently had their card generated for the first time, or are completely new to the game, developing the value of your card can be a great experience. Below are some tips which may prove helpful:
*Determine the percentage of Total Bank you are willing to commit toward acquiring copies, repeating Standing Bids, and/or enacting Direct Market purchases (buying from your own account) toward your position. The larger the percentage invested, the more aggressive your approach, the greater your potential return. The trade-off is that your degree of investment will come at the expense of other aspects of the game (ie. Impossible Trinity).
*Set a target for how much cash flow you will need weekly to reach your goals. For example, if you can generate 10 Bank a week, and you are willing to budget half toward acting as a Market Maker, that's 20 Bank a month, 240 Bank a year. Measure that against your card's potential appreciation over its Junk Value. With consistency, the compounded effect can be great over time.
*Capital formationis the lifeblood of effective Market Making. To be successful as a Market Maker, a player must be prepared to provide a strong and consistent stream of cash flow into their Bank. Time is always of the essence. Active purchases need to be made, positions need to be supported with Standing Bids, and a reserve needs to be plentiful and liquid to prevent retrenchment. Below is a break-down of the Top 250 cards with-in each rarity tier, which shows where the most lucrative bids can be found:
As the chart above shows, the cards that carry the most double and triple-digit Standing Bids are in the Legendary market. Having owned and sold every Legendary card that has been produced at some point, my experience has been that even those Legendary cards with single-digit Standing Bids, listed at deep discounts to their MV (and in rare cases at discounts to their JV) have consistently outperformed the return on almost all other rarities when placed into Auction. If your goal is to build Bank, this is where the money is.
*Reserve Banks & Treasury Accounts: In line with the challenges imposed by the Impossible Trinity, a Market Maker will need to find a way to mitigate saving and investing needs. I have found it helpful to dedicate separate accounts to this purpose. My Reserve Bank (Gold Crescent Alistan) exists to buy new positions of Farrakhan Season 2 with recurring Standing Bids (set at a Hard Peg) as well as handle general tasks (ie. fund undercapitalized puppets during card farming process). My Treasury account (FMM1) is structured as a pure Put against Farrakhan Season 1 and places recurring Standing Bids at a deep discount to MV (set at a Crawling Band). While the Reserve is purposely active, the Treasury is purposely passive. In both cases, I find it helpful to deposit sums into each account that are large enough (either through direct transfers or sustained farming campaigns) that the capital committed will last for a long time. The set it and forget it approach allows for both fiscal discipline and psychological freedom (knowing there is a backstop in place).
*Heisting: Going through the process of Card Farming, countless opportunities will abound to interfere with other players transferring Bank through the auction process. Placing a low Ask on a newly obtained card pulled via TCALS can reap large amounts of Bank in minimal time. While often easy money, I choose to abstain. People of all ages and experience levels engage in this hobby purely for enjoyment, and I take no pleasure in exploiting their moments of vulnerability. These heisting opportunities happen so frequently that I established a dedicated account to store these cards when pulled: FGWF(Farrakhan Good Will Foundation). If in time these cards develop attractive MV, I will add them to my wealth account. If a player contacts me and requests the card for strategic use, I usually just gift it to them. I find this approach to be more rewarding than taking Bank. Feel free to choose your own adventure.
*Developmental Stage: As your return on expense is most advantageous at the beginning of the Market-Making process (ie. when velocity is high, card supply is robust, and before your MV has shown much appreciation above JV), it is to your benefit to obtain copies for as low a price as possible, for as long as possible. With time, your ability to purchase at a slight premium to junk value will end, as other players will come to see your card as being a store of value. Players will then begin to either charge you at a premium above MV, or begin to hold your card for longer periods for appreciation or future intended sales. Over time, this can generate an expensive feedback loop. Try to resist the urge to realize true price potential too quickly while the supply of copies is plentiful, as doing so will come at the expense of raising your costs long before necessary.
*Law of Diminishing Returns: At a constant rate of investment, the percentage gains from building your card will decrease over time. The only way to change the math is to increase the amount of capital you are committing to your position. For example: if you build the MV of an Epic card from 5 to 10, you will reap a 100% return. Taking that same card from 10 to 15 will only reap a 50% gain from the same amount of time and capital being invested. This downward trend will only continue to accelerate without a change in the financing structure. Options include: i. increasing the base amount of savings into your Bank while still investing at the same percentage, ii. investing at a more aggressive percentage of Bank without a change in your base savings, or iii. increasing your base savings while also increasing the percentage rate of Bank investment.
*An Average Calculatorcan be used to plan out the effects of future transactions on your card's MV. It takes five sales to generate an effect, and beyond that, the average of your last 10 sales will be scored.
*Sequence of Order Execution: When the system calculates a card's MV, the initial sale will be scored as most recent, but when there are multiple transactions with various prices with-in a sale, the ordering of the other positions will prove haphazard (often with the lowest as scoring most recent). For this reason, it is to your advantage to initiate higher-priced transactions after a multi-sale auction concludes, as opposed to placing them in real-time during this type of auction. Example: You are buying your card from two players for 10, a new seller drops their ask for one of the Bids to 9. Wait until AFTER the auction ends to buy out the remaining higher Ask so it will be guaranteed to place as the most recent sale sequentially. This will benefit your card's MV calculation for a longer time.
*Counteracting Short Sales: Dealing with market hazards is the responsibility of any Market Maker. At times, players will choose to sell below your Standing Bid, which can reset your MV downward in the near-term. While this can appear disadvantageous at the outset, if you invest into your position at a constant rate, steep discounts can prove highly beneficial, lowering your overall cost basis, increasing your rate of return, and allowing for greater profit over time than there otherwise would be. This is one of the reasons why publicly traded companies will willingly enact stock splits. If this happens to your position, simply place a Direct Purchase (or series of purchases) above the intended original Bid price to even out the difference. For example, a Standing Bid of 5 is matched to an Ask of .01. The trade will settle at 2.5. In a subsequent transaction after that Auction ends, proactively sell the card to yourself from another account at 10 (target price of 5 (2)) and the algorithm will even out the MV back to your target price. If you are capital constrained, you can accomplish the same goal with a series of staggered purchases that trend upward at an affordable rate as savings recover over time.
*Saturation Points: In line with the challenges imposed by the Law of Diminishing Returns, a mature position can reach a point where it is Priced to Perfection, as very few owners outside of the Market Maker wish to transact. This can occur as new supplies of the card dry up, while existing copies offer owners a store of value that is decidedly more attractive than alternative cards on the market. A victim ts own success, very few 'better cards' exist within the marketplace for which owners want to sell to raise Bank, even with the incentive of extraordinarily high Standing Bids. At that point, it may be to the advantage of a Market Maker to encourage actions that will temporarily bring MV down (ie. Free Floating the position, coordinating Pull Events). While this may seem counter-intuitive, when a Market Maker is at a Saturation Point, a short-term retrenchment can reset conditions for a new campaign, with even greater future returns than can be found under the status-quo.
*Over-Extension: real-time market conditions may cause a Market Maker to spend more of their Bank capital than their liquidity levels can comfortably support. When this happens, the number of repeat Standing Bids that can be placed at MV decreases, a red flag for Owners who view the card as a store of value. Options for the Market Maker include i. Increasing base savings, ii. Decreasing the number of repeat Standing Bids, iii. Lowering the Bank amount placed behind the position to some percentage below current MV. Over-extension marks a period where retrenchment becomes more likely until savings are replenished
*Bank Insolvency: a far more severe and bearish condition than over-extension, a Market Maker's savings can become thoroughly exhausted to a point where Standing Bids can no longer be placed anywhere near MV, possibly not at all. Operations may or may not cease, as clear gaps become visible in both the time between new Standing Bids and the Bank amounts being placed in support behind them. A sale matched at a discount to MV may take a significant period to recover (possibly never) and it becomes likely that the card will trend toward a lower base, creating a negative feedback loop. Unless and until Bank savings are recapitalized, options for the Market Maker include i. Free-floating (allowing the card to trade for some time with either a token Standing Bid or without any Standing Bid at all) or ii. Total Capitulation (walking away from the position entirely). With time, a Market Maker can recover from Bank insolvency, but it is not guaranteed
*Managed Decline: if a Market Maker is planning to make a change to their system that is likely to decelerate operations (ie. less card farming, committing bank to alternate positions, playing the game less entirely) there are protective steps that can be taken to minimize damage to the card's MV. Options include i. placing a stream of deeply discounted Standing Bids to publicly set a known floor, ii. performing Open Market operations (buying from your account) at the discounted MV to re-establish some form of price support, and iii. making occasional Direct Market purchases when Standing Asks are listed at affordable prices. A Managed Decline marks a bearish period for the position, and while it can seem depressing, the power to one day reverse this condition always remains within the hands of the Market Maker.
*Taking Time-Off: Eventually, your level of motivation will decrease. Maybe you will achieve your overall MV and DV goals, and the game will become a less enjoyable pursuit. Or perhaps something in 'real-life' will take priority over your free time. Don't be afraid or feel guilty about your card losing value in the interim of your direct support. In the real world, even the best of publicly traded companies have experienced bad quarters with intervals when their MV trended downward. Periods of decline build a sense of character into the history of your performance as a whole. Personally, I prefer to play in stints, with a goal in mind that's tied to some form of end trigger. My first goal was a time limit to achieve Top Deck Value. I then took a break, only later to return with the new 100 copies challenge. I find that creating hard deadlines and knowing there is a finish line ahead, makes things more fun. At the end of the day, all a Market Maker ever needs to input a price that trends upward are copies of the card, capital to invest, and the talent/willingness to spend time playing. If the latter isn't there, you can always return and recover using the tools of the former when the stars align again.
Metrics To Access The Value of Market Maker Run Cards
*Amount of realized profit the Market Maker has produced for other players through direct purchases of the card
Total Return on Investment the Market Maker generates for other players who hold the card as a store of value
Total sales volume the Market Maker generates relative to other cards
Amount of Liquid Bank the Market Maker has committed to supporting the card
#, recency and amount of alternate Bids the Market Maker has placed into other positions
# of copies the Market Maker owns
# of trades behind the position
Recency of time between transactions
Four measures of Intrinsic Value (i. Junk Value, ii. Highest Standing Bid, iii. Projected MV after the sale at Highest Standing Bid, and iv. Projected MV after purchase at lowest Standing Ask)
Velocity (frequency of Find History)
Likelihood of Pull Event target/capacity to withstand
Likelihood of Short Target/capacity to withstand
Number/Diversity/Recency of Standing Bids
Standing Bids relative to Market Value
Standing Bids relative to Peers
Ways To Protect A Position
Hard Peg
Two factors to take into account when evaluating the strength of any given price peg are i. Standing Bid to Current Market Value and ii. Standing Bid to Junk Value. A Hard Peg involves placing a Put (Standing Bid) either at, very near, or above the current Market Value. This encourages sales to transact very close to MV. A Hard Peg is the most aggressive form of price support, creating a high incentive for players to sell directly to the Bidder, and requires the highest commitment of real-time Bank support to maintain continuously. When acting as a Market Maker, you can use the Impossible Trinity paradigm to structure the degree to which such an approach is feasible toward your overall goals, balancing Bank solvency, with liquidity to engage other positions.
Example: Season 2 Farrakhan (entirety)
When Season 2 began, I prioritized building a position using a Hard Peg at a Premium to Junk Value with the purchase price as low as the market would allow. In review, Farrakhan S2 has never traded below .58 (a slight premium to JV) and began trading six times JV (independent of my purchases) within its first three sales. For several weeks, I was able to build a position from other owners with a Hard Peg of 5 Bank (10 times JV of an Epic .5). With time, the Market Value would rise in line with the Hard Peg, which would lead owners to Ask at prices at a premium to MV (the premium over JV eventually ceased to be an attractive enough metric to entice sales).
Another factor that bids up a Hard Peg as Market Value rises is a Card's growing appeal as a future store of value. Meaning the development of a belief that future value will become greater than the present value of a sale at the current Standing Bid. A growing number of owners will begin to either ask for much higher prices (ie. 1,000, 10,000) and/or hold the position outright with no interest in selling, while other players begin to place standing competitive Bids for the card of their own.
To maintain a dominant position, a Market Maker must be prepared to deploy more capital (ie. multiple Bids at higher prices than other players are willing to pay) to Crowd Out other buyers. In my case, multiple Standing Bids of 6 slowly grew to 10, 15, 20, 25, 30, 35, 38. Standalone purchases would run as high as 50. Eventually, an equilibrium price would be found where many players would sell, while very few players would attempt to bid. Keep in mind, while you may have the funds to win every auction, there are times when doing so will be a Pyrrhic victory, as the process of winning a bidding war will raise your MV and your future purchasing costs. An additional background factor is that of time. With the conversion into a new season, the market of the future will no longer organically generate the card at the same rate it currently does, raising potential Market Value through scarcity.
In retrospect, a Hard Peg (at a premium to JV, and later at/near MV) was very successful in allowing me to build a large position in my card (at the time of this write-up, 110 copies). The trade-off was that I had to deploy a great deal of capital consistently, budget liquidity for an extended period, and artificially keep down the potential market value (which also sacrificed Deck Value appreciation). As I now play for the long-term, the exchange was worth it, your mileage may vary.
Crawling Band
This is a strategy used by a Market Maker to mix the price protection of a Peg with the discretionary spending flexibility of a Float. Multiple Standing Bids are placed at a percentage below the card's Market Value but are structured in such a way to preserve most of the position. This tactic can also be used in combination with a subsequent purchase at a price targeted well above the band to reset the MV to the intended target price. When done correctly, this will allow incoming purchases to be made at a discount, while staggering the MV upward with discretion, increasing the overall return on investment of the Market Maker.
Example: Season 1 Farrakhan (late 2020/early 2021)
In late December, I decided to revalue Farrakhan Season 1 upward to 822 MV (total investment was 8,224.50 Bank, nine 775 Buys, and one 1,249.50 Buy). In the process, I gained six additional copies and deposited four of the 775 buys into a Treasury account labeled FMM1(Farrakhan Market Maker 1) with the intent to pivot into a Crawling Band. I then immediately placed three Standing Bids from FMM1 at 500 Bank (a 48.7% discount to MV, but still among the highest Standing Bids in the entire market).
For several weeks, there were no transactions until a Pull Event, where all three of the 500 SBs were executed, and I followed up mid-auction with three additional purchases from my Farrakhan account at 1,250, 1,253, 1,200, along with a drop sale at 1,257.34 that was deposited back into FMM1. Total investment was 6,961.01 with six additional copies of the card gained, three at a substantial discount, and a substantial increase in Deck Value. My greatest efficiency using the technique was to absorb a 500 Standing Bid and then follow-up in a subsequent auction with two large purchases, 2,499.66 and 2,499.97. This resulted in a gain of three copies (one at a discount), increased my Deck Value over 30k, and allowed me to realize my return goal of taking Farrakhan S1 to double its old all-time high with the targeted 100th copy.
The numbers involved in these transactions are historically high, but the strategies can work for any player, working with any amount of capital. In an auction involving multiple purchases with a trend below your target, place and match the higher bids in a subsequent auction AFTER that auction concludes. This will allow you to input a better-recorded price (or ideally a series of higher prices) as the most recent sequentially and will cause the lower prices to drop from future MV recalculations first.
General advice for players considering the Crawling Band strategy:
i. Determine what percentage of your Total Bank you want to target toward building MV (ie. an account with 1,000 Bank, an investment commitment of 5% would create a price target of 50). Use the Impossible Trinity paradigm to weigh how conservative or aggressive you want to be in the context of your goals as a whole.
ii. Dedicate a Treasury account with Bank that is solely used to hedge the position with Standing Bids set at a discount to current MV. This will impose a sense of fiscal discipline into your campaign, and allow you the flexibility to explore other aspects of the game separately.
iii. After any purchase of a new copy of the card at a discount, use the Bank in your main account to purchase more cards at a premium that will net toward your intended MV target. Cash is king, budget maintaining levels of liquidity.
Free Float
A Free Float is when the Market Value of a Card is allowed to fluctuate without the participation of the Market Maker. This often creates a negative feedback loop of bearish sentiment, because the source of the position's buying support (Standing Bids from the MM) has been withdrawn. Uncertainty builds to the position's legitimacy as a store of future value. Standing Asks will often begin to appear that are priced below MV, and investors will begin cashing out to those Bidding at a discount. The Free Float can lead to a near-term price crash, but with time a new equilibrium will settle things down.
Example: Season 1 Farrakhan (late 2019)
My direct experience with a Free Float stems back from September 2019 to late December 2019. For four months, I took a hiatus from the game, and Season 1 Farrakhan was traded in the market without my placing a Standing Bid. My last purchase price was 47.50. From then on, there were eight independent transactions, ranging from 7.51, 15.01, 17.26, 16, 15.01, 15, 15.75, and 10.32. That is an average sale of 13.98, a 70.57% decline from the last sale with the Standing Bid I had provided. Yet despite the uncertainty, relatively few Owners vacated the position.
Does it make sense to retain or invest in a Card that was once supported by a Market Maker that has been placed into a Free Float? It's a gamble. In the immediate term, there could be strong downward pressure on MV as the fundamentals that drove that price upward has changed. However, if in the future the Market Maker returns with a new campaign, and talent, support, and capital investment rebound into the position, the return for those who purchased at a discount during the Free Float could be extraordinary. There is one player who purchased S1 Farrakhan during the above Free Float period, and later sold during a return campaign for a positive return of 5,063%! A calculated risk that paid off.
Closing Thoughts
This is a great hobby, and playing as a Market Maker has been a rewarding experience. The strategies discussed were fun to plan out and have helped me to achieve various goals that made the game worth playing. The journey (conceptualizing abstract thoughts into a game-plan, developing an infrastructure within a Random Number Generator framework) was much more rewarding than ultimately reaching a destination. While no balloons and confetti drop from the ceiling, I can always look back and smile when logging into NS.
On the flip side, I'm also happy I was able to share the wealth during this last campaign, making other players 'rich' with triple and quadruple-digit purchases:
I also appreciate the loyalty of those owners of my card who chose to buy/farm and hold with greatly enhanced Deck Values, especially those who held the position during the Free Float. I even have a love for my haters, who dream of deflating Farrakhan with an endless stream of .01 Asks. This is a game, it is healthy that people are inspired to compete and I never take it personally.
I hope this read was useful in some way. However long from now that you are reading this, the techniques discussed should remain evergreen in their application. Thank you to those at TNP and the Cards Symposium for the invite. From scripts to community structure, it never ceases to amaze me how many talented and generous people are a part of this great community. Stay safe, have fun, all the best!
Farrakhan
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[small][U][B]The Northern Lights[/B][/U][B]:[/B] [I]Beauty in Truth[/I]
Publisher: McMasterdonia :: Executive Editor: BMWSurfer
[I]The Northern Lights is produced by the Ministry of Communications on behalf of the Government of The North Pacific and is distributed by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs externally and by the Ministry of Home Affairs internally. Except where otherwise indicated, all content represents the views of the Government of The North Pacific.[/I]
[B][URL='https://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=352113']Index of issues[/URL][/align][/B]
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We are aware that not everyone is equally appreciative of image-based NS newspapers. As such, we've included the standard format mostly plain-text version of the newspaper in the spoiler below. We hope you enjoy reading this month's issue! If you have any questions, comments, concerns, or suggestions, feel free to contact the current TNP Minister of Communications [nation]PotatoFarmers[/nation].[/align]
[spoiler=Standard Version]
[IMG]https://forum.thenorthpacific.org/images/news_media/tnl_logo.png[/IMG]
[size=medium]Editor’s Note[/SIZE][/align]
[align=right][I]by BMWSurfer, Minister of Communications[/I]
[/align]
[align=center]Welcome to The Northern Lights.
Recently, The North Pacific hosted a Cards Symposium, a gathering for all members of the cards community. Featured in this edition of The Northern Lights iare five lectures and Q&A sessions with prominent members of the community. We hope you enjoy reading this issue!
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[size=medium]Note from the Minister of Cards[/SIZE][/align]
[align=right][I]by DGES, Minister of Cards[/I][/align]
[align=center]The 2021 Cards Symposium was a large-scale cards festival hosted by The North Pacific during the end of February. Activities relating to this festival were held throughout the span of 1 week, with minigames, guest speakers, and fully-fledged competitions comprising the majority of what took place during the Symposium.
The Symposium marked one of the very first festivals celebrating the cards minigame, with over 110 users attending the event and enjoying it in one way or another. An entire month was spent planning its release, so we hope that this issue of The Northern Lights provides you some perspective on what took place if you weren't there!
Happy reading~[/align]
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[size=medium]Q&A with Mikeswill[/SIZE]
[COLOR=#006400][B]Mikeswill:[/B][/COLOR] Welcome to the 2021 Card Symposium.
I would first like to give my thanks to The Infinite Hell-Sage Empire of Destructive Government Economic System for inviting me to share my experiences and opinions on this platform. I am truly humbled by the honor. It represents a degree of success in this endeavor based on much effort.
I do not have an agenda to promote. Instead I am willing to share my experiences in the Card realm over these two plus seasons. A brief history:
The initiation of the Card game during the April 1, 2018 limited period found me in an advantageous position given my long history of creating satellite Nations representing different points and interests in my Nation States life. As such I was able to move cards from these satellite Nations to my main resulting in a top 10 finish at the end of the first run.
When the game resumed in earnest I began as a Heister (a nation that undercuts a sell bid to gain profit); a Penny Bidder (a nation that raises buys in penny increments), and an inflator of Legendary cards (I pushed the price of Legendary cards to $10). The first two tactics brought ill-will and retaliation by a group of card players.
After a few combative conversations with Frisbeeteria I was invited to join a card Discord to the chagrin of many. It was via this Discord that I was able to evolve out my initial game-play and into a more community considerate style of play. Nevertheless, I was guilty of numerous antagonistic conversations for a period of time as I slowly evolved as a trader.
I learned about trade dropping – buying low and selling high on a trade. I learned how to protect a bank transfer after numerous times losing profits to heisters. (I used to transfer bank via 0.50 Rare sales). I learned how to create puppets to facilitate greater card/ bank and gain an advantageous position during pull events. And so it goes.
My intention, therefore, is not to present a position but rather to address any questions a Nation may have. Thus the format will be Q & A.
A few ideas for questions: How setting a reasonable goal can make card trading fun....Why Koem Kab is the only trader I completely trust? ... Dropping on Legendary trades: How to drop and why it is OK... How do I maintain my top 5 position without using scripts?
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [1]:[/B][/COLOR] That last one is interesting. How do you maintain your top 5 position without using scripts?
[COLOR=#006400][B]Mikeswill:[/B][/COLOR]This was a trick question. The answer is unwavering perseverance. I am a bit older than many of the players in NationStates and have had a difficulty understanding the creation and use of scripts or programming or coding or whatever it is called that automates or facilitates a more efficient manner of answering issues and junking cards for bank. So I work harder and longer ... one issue and one junked card at a time.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [2]:[/B][/COLOR]What do you mean by Koem Kab being the only trader you trust and why?
[COLOR=#006400][B]Mikeswill:[/B][/COLOR]In the course of relationships it is easy to create expectations only to be let down at some point. In the card game as in most speculative endeavors one seeks consistency and over the 2+ years of play Koem has been the most consistent trader that I have experienced. Moreover, from my experience, he has yet to act upon emotion over logic.
Other players, me included, have exhibited emotion reactions that go against expectation. Usually these are one time occurrences but they are enough to create doubt in future transactions.
Examples: getting heisted by a Nation who for months gave and received the courtesy of non-interference. Purposefully have one’s pull event blocked so as to deny the opportunity to obtain a card by a player who abused the same system many times over.
Players have changed tactics from time to time for whatever reason. I am not going to necessarily judge why an ally all of a sudden decides to interfere with a bank transfer but I will alter my trades in the future to minimize the interference. (I used to get mad and that will be discussed via a different Q & A.
On the other, Koem trades in Legendary cards as I do so we have a common goal: to maintain and grow the value of these cards. I know that in a bidding war he will have 4x my bank so if he decides he wants the card I am not going too far above MV without encouraging him to drop me. He seems to know that if I am bidding on a high priced Legendary I’m going to buy the card and will back off once MV has made. Even though we seldom if ever converse via telegram we seemingly give and take when a series of Legendary cards hit the market at below MV bids.
So I trust him. I trust him because it is always good to trust at least one other player.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [2]:[/B][/COLOR]How do you look at your trading style in the past and reflect on it today? What was your process for growth in that way?
[COLOR=#006400][B]Mikeswill:[/B][/COLOR]I am far more confident today than I was in the beginning. I began as a penny bidder and heister trying to win every trade for the sake of winning the trade. When I focused on a goal I was able to pin point the trades I wanted to be involved in. This took a degree of trial and error. Moreover, no one likes a penny bidder especially in the Legendary market. It can bring up antagonistic emotions and communications. So I quit being a penny bidder. I also realized that the market is incredibly large. It isn't necessary for me to try to get every card.
One more thing: If you see me buying a non-Legendary card I am probably moving the card from a pup to my main... that means I can inflate the card as high as I want because the bank is secure.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [3]:[/B][/COLOR]What would you say is a good goal to have when beginning as a trader? For this answer, please draw from your own learning experiences and/or mistakes when you were first starting out and explain how it translates to setting a reasonable goal, if you would.
[COLOR=#006400][B]Mikeswill:[/B][/COLOR]When Season 1 began in earnest Legendary cards were the most desired. Although I was in the top 10 in Deck Value, the number of Legendary cards I owned was nowhere near a complete set of 184 cards. Additionally, seven Legendary Nations had ceased to exist since the April 1st rollout making acquisition of those cards far more challenging. And so I set the goal of collecting every Legendary card.
What I found was that I was initially tentative in my trading. I was easily intimidated by players such as Koem Kab and Fris and The Northern Lights who had far more bank and better trade tactics. I can specifically recall needing to get the CTE Legendary Mindless Contempt and knowing that my 200.00 bid – the extent of my bank – would be surpassed before the trade was completed. It can become disheartening when you feel like other traders have the upper hand. And so I changed my goal.
Actually I changed my attitude. I decided that I was not going to allow another Nation intimidate my card play. I got realistic on the amount of bank necessary to successfully consummate whatever trade I wanted to participate in. I decided that I was willing to purchase at 10% above Market Value (sometimes even more) to get the card I desired. I didn’t concern myself with penny bidding in an effort to get the lowest purchase rather I attacked the trade at Market Value. In other words, I got serious about obtaining my goal. And to me that is the ultimate goal, to decide what you want and then go out and get it.
I see so many traders trading to get the best deal and then missing out on the card because they weren’t willing to go the extra 0.25 – the value of a pack. Just yesterday a player bought one of my S1 obscure Epics to beat me out of .01 while another player battled me when all the while they could have spent an extra .02 to get the card.
So to get to the question in more tangible terms: depending on which Region you reside in you might want to start with the goal of collecting every Regional member. I am thinking of collecting both S1 and S2 cards of every WA member in my region. Setting goals which are attainable can bring much satisfaction and in the process develops one’s ability to consummate trades and communicate with card holders in order to persuade them to sell.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [4]:[/B][/COLOR]1. Texan here, how long was your power out, lol
2. As someone looking to farm puppets for cards, how many puppets would you say is a good amount while not giving my life to the trade?
[COLOR=#006400][B]Mikeswill:[/B][/COLOR]1. My condo is near a Fire station so I only lost power for about 2 hours
2. I don't know the answer to the optimum number of puppets to have while still maintaining a real life outside NS. I have 345 active puppets. If I knew how to use scripts or whatever that is called I would probably be far more efficient than I am. I am certain that manually going through 345 pups a day takes up a lot of time.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [5]:[/B][/COLOR]Hi! As a mere enthusiast to this game I find the collecting satisfying, but the sociology fascinating. Though communicating through telegraphs is the clearest way to convey information, I find most interesting the concept of attempting to communicate through bidding alone. Watching players get scared off by a large jump in bids, frantically scouring their trades to see if a puppet of theirs has another copy, attempting to discourage people from penny bidding by immediately jumping to MV, watching people bid .01 below MV as though that number matters at all.
What have you found to be effective methods of conveying intent to other players while bidding (or asking)? How do you discourage those who seek a "good deal" from taking a card you genuinely want?
[COLOR=#006400][B]Mikeswill:[/B][/COLOR]The Sociology of assessing another player by the way they bid is an awesome study. If I see a player penny bidding I presume that their expectations and confidence levels are low... they probably lack sufficient bank to adequately buy cards they want and are playing a game of hope. A large counter bid will usually dissuade them. If a player tries to heist a bank transfer I find that I can wear them down by penny bidding the clock knowing that I have at least one other bank transfer card copy. (I did this to Momo on a Legendary trade an extended the trade for four hours). One of my projects has me buying up some cards and initially I fought off the other bidders by raising my Buy price to deny them the copy of the card. But in retrospect I am just over paying on a card that by the time I want to take advantage of my ownership position, the other player may cease to exist making their ownership moot. And then I use the old fashioned style of communication: I send a telegram. Be careful with telegrams... there are a lot of angry Nations out there.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [5]:[/B][/COLOR]Also, piggybacking off of [Event Participant #2], I assume you trust Koem Kab because their bids are consistent and clear, but do you think their complete monopolistic domination of the legendary market - essentially price fixing the entirety through plurality ownership - is detrimental to the competitive nature of auctions?
My questions are perhaps not technical enough for this Q and A.
[COLOR=#006400][B]Mikeswill:[/B][/COLOR]No. Keep in mind that though Koem owns 11,000 Legendary cards, r3n and I each own over 3,000 apiece. Thus Koem does not have a complete monopolistic domination of the market. Any player has access to the market and is no way curtailed from being successful in the market bank permitted. Whereas I am probably a Democratic Socialists at heart, I have no issue with someone like Koem utilizing his means and talents to arrive at his level of success especially where no one else is denied the same opportunity. I am a perfect example. I have successfully collected every S1 and S2 Legendary without any barriers.
As to the second point - the competitive nature of auctions – Koem has shown far more constraint in maintaining the status quo. The competitive nature of auctions is a myth. Either you have sufficient bank to obtain the card you want or you don’t. The fact that you can pull the desired card removes any barrier to competition. Koem doesn’t arbitrarily inflate Legendary cards (That was Noah in 2020). He simply attempts to maintain the current MV but will aid the inflation of a Legendary on a trade by trade basis as will I.
Now the purposeful inflation of common cards to artificially raise one’s DV as detrimental... :)
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [5]:[/B][/COLOR]Ahh, my question was worded poorly. I mean that Koem does not have to abide by the same issues of competition that I do when bidding on a legendary. They are able to undercut/drop any player on nearly any legendary; the result being that even obscene deals (such as when 9003 accidentally dropped [Zamri1138] for 2 instead of 20) go to Koem by default, and are frequently uncontested. I can do that with my own card and a few others, but they have domination in this respect to (nearly) the entire legendary market. I find the frenzy of bidding on a good deal to be exciting and fun, but don't bother on legendaries because the end result is known.
[COLOR=#006400][B]Mikeswill:[/B][/COLOR]You might want to ask yourself why are you so consumed with Koem Kab at the detriment of your own personal goal... I am not picking on you alone. I think man has an innate nature to criticize the highly successful and thus legitimize their own self-inflicted victimization. For instance: your complaint about Koem in the Legendary market could easily be applied to me. I have sufficient power and bank in that market to dominate any trade. But because I am #3 in the game I don't get the same negative attention that KK does. I am also amused by the frenzy of greed when someone purposefully or not places a low Ask on a Legendary... it means bank for me because if I get to the card before Koem I will drop you and then the ensuing outrage by the player who got dropped is delightful. Because it is outrage based on emotional greed. Keep that in mind in the future. I have been busy with a project so my involvement in the day to day Legendary market has waned but I will be back soon!
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [5]:[/B][/COLOR]I think my comments on Koem came off as antagonistic instead of esoteric. I don't mind them as a player at all, I was trying to get your thoughts on how monopolies and oligarchies skew the market and was using my experience as a comparison, not a complaint. I'm not much of a legendary hound, just trying to compare how market forces are asymmetrically applied to different players. Thanks for your answers!
[COLOR=#006400][B]Mikeswill:[/B][/COLOR][Reacts with sunglasses emoji]
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [6]:[/B][/COLOR]As someone who has been active since the beginning, what is the most enjoyable facet of the card game for you?
I sometimes forget the connection between cards and the nations behind them. Do you place value on cards of players you have a good relationship with? Or are there cards you value due to memorable events (like first Legendary find)?
[COLOR=#006400][B]Mikeswill:[/B][/COLOR]The most enjoyable facet was and is the increased interaction with other game players. Prior to the card game I was basically just keeping my region going as the longest serving WA Delegate in the history of the game (15+ years). Because of the streak I was still active but isolated to my region. I don't participate in the Security Council because I find it either a popularity contest or a travesty to the game mechanics. The General Assembly has gotten incredibly stale as Nations write Resolutions for personal recognition and then Repeal the a week later. (I truly believe that there should be a 6 month wait time before Repeals can be considered). So when the card game arose it gave me the opportunity to branch out far beyond the confines of my nest. I have built relationships with Nations from many Regions reminding me of the joy I had in my first year in the game where players from across the globe engaged. In December I decided to blow past the constraints of Deck Capacity. This has allowed me to increase my collection from < 2,000 to over 15,000 cards giving me the opportunity to collect cards of Nations I have appreciated as players but whose card value might have not fit the prior limitation of deck space.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [7]:[/B][/COLOR]What tactics should you be aware of when you try to card flip in Nationstates?
[COLOR=#006400][B]Mikeswill:[/B][/COLOR]I'm not sure what card flipping is. If that is the Buying low and Selling high trade style I am not a participant as it has no long term return for me. I am mostly a collector of Legendary cards. I will drop on any Legendary trade where I can garner a 5.00 profit or more. Now I do see players buying low on my CTE S1 Common transfer cards thinking they are going to get the 4.00 MV price at some point in the future not realizing that every historical trade has been made between me and my pups. It is the same with Buying inflated Commons thinking that because the card is at 200.00 someone is going to Buy at 50.00. This is Fool's Gold... a waste of bank because eventually the card, if traded, will only decrease in value.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [1]:[/B][/COLOR] With people obviously hoping a Season 3 comes out this year, what can you do to increase the rarity of your potential future card?
[COLOR=#006400][B]Mikeswill:[/B][/COLOR]I have no idea. I am certain I will never be a Legendary because my activities in this game over 17 years tends to go against the grain of the the elite. I think that writing proposals might help. Maybe write a bunch of inane Security Council resolutions and the Repeal them a week later might get you a higher Rarity. Some folks try to manipulate the acquisition of badges. If that is your choice check out this link: [URL]http://www.mwq.dds.nl/ns/results/[/URL] - I just play the game. I was Commended once and then that was repealed out of spite. Other players have tried to both Commend and Condemn me I guess to help increase my card rarity which I have appreciated.
Oh, and S3 will never happen.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [8]:[/B][/COLOR]I've noticed that you have valid concerns regarding whether Season 3 will ever occur, but if we were to be hypothetical and say that Season 3 decided to appear, what do you believe are some of the most important things players should do in order to prepare for the upcoming season?
[COLOR=#006400][B]Mikeswill:[/B][/COLOR]I'm not planning on doing a thing different specifically to plan for Season 3. I know some players have stocked puppets with packs waiting to open them at the time. I don't understand that logic. If S3 is inevitable them S2 cards will become rarer thus why hold onto packs for the future when you can open those packs and replenish them. I am doing something completely separate regarding S2 cards which will mean nothing if S3 doesn't occur. When S3 does begin I will try to get a list of the Legendaries and begin collecting them.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [9]:[/B][/COLOR]Oh, one thing I've been meaning to ask you. It's a very little thing but I'm curious. Why did you decide to bid one cent above junk value on all your puppets' cards? I rarely see others do that - whenever I see a 0.06 bid on an uncommon I almost immediately know it's yours :P
[COLOR=#006400][B]Mikeswill:[/B][/COLOR]I want to incentivize the Seller by bidding above junk. I know that in S1 I never sold at junk, instead taking the bank immediately instead of waiting an hour. I have since changed that policy giving someone else the opportunity to raise the Buy price.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [9]:[/B][/COLOR]Yeah - I can understand not bidding at JV. As small of an increase over JV as it is, the logic seems to follow from my experience. A lot of people do not honor JV bids.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [10]:[/B][/COLOR]Any advice for starter traders who are struggling to earn bank? Further, do you have insight on how to maintain the collection bank balance?
[COLOR=#006400][B]Mikeswill:[/B][/COLOR]One aspect of trading power is a decent Bank and building bank while building a collection is obviously counter-productive. What helped my in S1 was pulling a Farakhan and then selling it at peak which at the time was 800.00. Back then my goal was to never fall to 200.00. This season I have adjusted that figure to 2,000.00 (inflation). In order to do that it takes discipline to stop buying until such time your comfort threshold is met. On that note I am always rather amused when a Nation pulls a Legendary and immediately sells for less than MV. With players like KK and me, said player might get half the bank between his ask and MV. This is a short term satisfaction over long term gratification. Either wait for a MV trade or create interest by having a puppet but at MV.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [6]:[/B][/COLOR]With collecting legendaries, do you focus on building your ownership of any particular cards? Like CTEs or high value, or do you have any other landmarks you're working towards?
[COLOR=#006400][B]Mikeswill:[/B][/COLOR]Good question. As I already own every Legendary card I get to pick and choose which cards I will continue to buy. It is almost a guarantee that I will buy any Legendary whose MV is above 50.00. I do like S1 CTE Commons but as I have 5,000 already I'm not buying though I do have a project in the works which will see me move all of those cards to my main. In doing so I could buy extras. I am thinking of collecting every WA Nation in my Region. Since they have each endorsed me I ought to appreciate them more. I seem to be acquiring copies of my pups for future prosperity and am currently moving my S1 Epics to my main. Any card Gio has a 2.00 bid on goes to Utmost Brownies until such time as it is inflated and then gets sent to MikesHope - currently with 20K DV.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [6]:[/B][/COLOR]You mentioned how blowing past your deck capacity opened up your deck to larger and more personal collections. Can you talk about your thought process behind making that decision, and perhaps how others should face that decision?
[COLOR=#006400][B]Mikeswill:[/B][/COLOR]It simply made financial sense. I kept to my deck space limit of 2,000 cards into December 2020. Keep in mind I had to pay extensive bank to reach this amount although my starting point from the initial April 1 was extensive. Most serious traders I know had long passed their deck capacities giving them an advantage for growing their DV. What I had to over come was my previous comfort in being able to Gift high bank Legendary cards to my main and how to move future bank to my main. So I observed what other players were doing and gave it a go.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [9]:[/B][/COLOR]I realized semi recently that I’m sort of in the same position. My deck capacity is currently 900 and I’ve just started a collection that will assuredly cause me to think twice about expanding it any more. What are some things you’d recommend for those of us who are in the process of making that switch? I suppose, what are the things you observed people doing that made you feel comfortable with making the switch?
[COLOR=#006400][B]Mikeswill:[/B][/COLOR]My greatest challenge was transferring bank as I used 30 CTE cards in rotation. I had to get comfortable transferring large bank (500.00) in small increments (4.00). I watched Gio's inflationary tactics to get comfortable with large bank transfers. Additionally, I had a lot of S1 Commons that I knew would benefit me in the future but I didn't want to put them on the mark. Instead I moved 100 Legs to puppets, Gifted the 100 Commons, and then rebought the Legs - inflated of course. As such, I do my small transfers to MikesHope and Mikes Faith and then my large transfer at a later time. It also meant that I needed to be comfortable with my Bank spread amongst these Nations. All in all it is working out quite nicely.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [9]:[/B][/COLOR]That's good to hear. Definitely the piggybacking and transferring large amounts of bank and cards from my storage nations to my main is the part that I'm most hesitant about. I have over 100 copies between the three different cards I use for mass copy transfers, so I'm not really worried about that bit, but the large amounts of bank and stuff about transferring legs is very helpful. Thanks a lot!
[hr]
[size=medium]Q&A with W&S[/SIZE]
[COLOR=#006400][B]W&S:[/B][/COLOR] Hi everyone and welcome!
Firstly, I’d like to give a huge THANK YOU to DGES for inviting me to speak at this event, and to 9003, McMasterdonia, Noah, and everyone else who was involved in making this possible. It is an incredible honor for me, as such a new trader, to be featured as a guest speaker at an event like this, and I am so incredibly grateful for the opportunity.
In many ways, this talk is going to be a contrasting viewpoint to Mikeswill’s, who spoke before me. We have very different backgrounds and the goal of this talk is both to provide a contrasting point of view and approach, as well as give new traders a chance to ask whatever questions they might have about how to either start out or transition into large-scale farming. While Mike and I have both been around NS since well before cards (though even there he has about a decade’s headstart on me), Mike has been involved in cards since day one, whereas I only picked up the trading card game in November. Mike does not really use scripts; I have been almost completely dependent on them to rise quickly. It is a good contrast, because while we have similar approaches to some aspects of the game, we have achieved our goals in very different ways. Though we oppose each other in other parts of NS, I have tremendous respect for his persistence and dedication and his commitment to honorable and respectful trading.
So what follows is my card origin story:
On November 26, 2020 I had about 5 bank worth of cards. I occasionally opened packs on my main, but I wasn’t really into it. I was playing on the TRR Minecraft server and putting most of my energy into that. The next day, November 27, some who were on the server (Dakota, Sakana, and Jamie among others) mentioned a pull event was going on.
What is a pull event? They didn’t tell me much except to answer issues on as many puppets as fast as I could and open packs.
So, like a total idiot, I joined in. I started furiously answering issues, manually, on all my puppets. And then, like magic (ha), a S1 Aleisyr appeared.
That was all it took. I was addicted to card farming. The feeling of opening legendary cards and getting so much bank for them was just… especially in government-mandated lockdown, it was that rush of serotonin I had so desperately been missing. It was truly an addiction. And even more so, just like in defending, I wanted to go as fast as humanly possible. Within a few days I discovered scripts, and within a couple of weeks I had tripled the size of my puppet army.
I documented my climb up the ladder. I achieved top 50 global in one month and top 20 global in 2 months. Currently I sit at number 18 on the global leaderboard, with a peak rank of #17. It was a torrid ascent up the rankings - 9003 commented recently that he had not seen anyone climb to page one of the rankings so quickly since the early days of cards.
Along the way, I also gained a reputation for two other things: collecting every single Season 2 legendary card within just a few weeks, and refusing to use MV inflation to maintain or gain deck value. Some others have ascended faster than me, only to see their deck value plummet as the cards that were propping them up deflated. Others have managed, through diversification and creativity, to maintain that ranking, but the community should know by now that I’m not a fan of inflated commons either way. But I digress. That is my story and my claim to fame.
But that is quite enough about me.
I just gave that introduction so y’all can know a little about my background and my position as a trader. But one of my biggest goals in this game is to help new traders access the market and cards they might not have the time or means to grind for. So now I want to hear from you! What do you want to know? I want this to be a no-judgment, no-question-is-dumb, new-trader-friendly space where you can ask me anything about how I gained deck value so quickly, what strategies I used in auctions, or what you can do to either start out in card trading, or make the transition from new player to elite trader.
So with that, enough of my ranting and raving. Let the Q&A begin! I will be happy to answer any questions today, tomorrow, up to the end of the event, or even after.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [1]:[/B][/COLOR] Would you farm if you were away from your computer and on your phone or another device without your scripts?
[COLOR=#006400][B]W&S:[/B][/COLOR] It would certainly be hard for me to keep my interest or have as many nations as I do now. When I started one of the main reasons I switched to scripts was because I went on a huge dry spell without finding any pull event cards or any legendaries at all in around 400 nations. I was really demotivated by that and I wanted to find a point at which my luck would sort of average out.
Still, I think my perspective has changed somewhat now. When I started I farmed to try and get cards; now I farm to get bank. That I think is something a lot of new players could learn from - and something that might keep me motivated in a world where I didn't have scripts. Farming is best for getting bank, not cards.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [2]:[/B][/COLOR] How were you motivated to do cards for that long?
[COLOR=#006400][B]W&S:[/B][/COLOR] I had goals. They were lofty goals, but I was making measurable progress. As long as I was making progress that I could see, I continued to be motivated. Every time I added a S2 legendary to the collection or passed another person in DV, it only fueled my desire to reach higher.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [3]:[/B][/COLOR] When you talk about respectful trading, what are some tips you'd give to newer traders so that they don't accidentally (and unintentionally) step on anyone's toes?
[COLOR=#006400][B]W&S:[/B][/COLOR] The main thing is paying attention to who is taking part in the auction and what you know about them. Is it a main and a known puppet of theirs? Do they have a standing, unmatched bid? Is it a collector trying to buy a card that you don't also need for a collection?
In general it is okay to make mistakes and accidentally step on people's toes, and a lot of the big players will understand if a new player doesn't know. Usually you'll know if that's happened when you get a telegram or a discord ping from someone like "hey that's my transfer". :P
As long as you acknowledge the mistake, the no-harm-no-foul rule applies if you correct it and don't make a habit of getting in the same person's way repeatedly.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [4]:[/B][/COLOR] How do you find time for cards during the day? Do you go and sit and do all daily card stuff at once? Or split it into few parts? Do you have any tips (other than gold retriever and issue script) to save time during doing cards?
[COLOR=#006400][B]W&S:[/B][/COLOR] It really depends on the day. Some days, especially when I'm not working at my IRL job, I will spend hours at a time just spamming enter for as long as I feel like. But more recently I have found that for the sake of my personal health and well-being, especially as the days get warmer here in Austria, I've been splitting it up, so I'll do however many I want, then go outside or walk or go to the store, then come back and finish whatever card work I was doing that day.
I'll also often combine tasks; like when I'm doing a mass-copy transfer, I'll usually also do some farming to both condense the tasks into the same timeframe while also having a chance to TCALS another copy of the card.
Hotkeys are really helpful. If you don't have 9003's hotkey tool, get it. Pressing F to flip, J to junk etc is way faster than clicking. :P
I also like to place "reminder asks" on low-owner commons or uncommons I think would make good piggyback-transfer cards, so if I find a second copy of it I will see that I own another copy of that card, and then be able to hold onto both copies in the inevitable eventuality that I need to start doing a lot more piggybacking (when I run out of deck space).
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [4]:[/B][/COLOR] And a bonus question:
Do you open your packs asap or do you collect them and open when you have X amount? What is more satisfying to you? :D
[COLOR=#006400][B]W&S:[/B][/COLOR] I always open packs right away. Saving packs is pointless for me. I get that some people wanna save them for S3, I just don't feel the need to.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [5]:[/B][/COLOR] (Who knows if we’re even gonna get a S3 tbh.)
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [4]:[/B][/COLOR] Oh and didn't mean S3. Rather like - do you prefer to eat one cookie a day or a cake at the weekend? :D
[COLOR=#006400][B]W&S:[/B][/COLOR] Farming is eating the whole cake for me. I need that serotonin immediately. :P
I have so many nations that farming by itself is the cake, lol.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [1]:[/B][/COLOR] How's the S1 Legendary Collection going?
[COLOR=#006400][B]W&S:[/B][/COLOR] 55/184. Been on a bit of a hiatus lately. Trying to kick it back into gear soonish. S1 legendaries are HARD O.o
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [1]:[/B][/COLOR] Meanwhile me at 18..
[COLOR=#006400][B]W&S:[/B][/COLOR] LOL :P yeah I did add another to the collection just now! TUMS sniped one of them because I wasn't looking but I'm ok with not fighting TUMS all the time, lol.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [1]:[/B][/COLOR] What's your preferred method of transfer?
[COLOR=#006400][B]W&S:[/B][/COLOR] Mass copy. 100% mass copy is my favorite.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [4]:[/B][/COLOR] What is flipping?
[COLOR=#006400][B]W&S:[/B][/COLOR] Flipping has two meanings. Flipping over the cards when you open the pack is what I was talking about.
But flipping also means buying a card for a low price and immediately turning around and listing it for higher.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [4]:[/B][/COLOR] Oh, then I'm weird. I open packs, don't flip and keep opening packs until I open all without looking at cards so I have a nice surprise if I get a TEP Card / high MV / Leg ;D
[COLOR=#006400][B]W&S:[/B][/COLOR] Ah, you're like HS then. HS does the same thing.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [1]:[/B][/COLOR] How does your timezone affect your pull event availability?
[COLOR=#006400][B]W&S:[/B][/COLOR] For US based pull events it is usually quite good. Most take place in the afternoon in the US, which is evening for me. Perfect. But evening in the US is like 3 A.M. for me usually :P
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [1]:[/B][/COLOR] If you're in a pull event who has time to look at what you pull? Lol.
[COLOR=#006400][B]W&S:[/B][/COLOR] Me because I need that rush.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [4]:[/B][/COLOR] If you could speak to yourself from time when you started doing cards, what advice would you give yourself?
[COLOR=#006400][B]W&S:[/B][/COLOR] Ooooo, that is a good question. The biggest piece of advice would be to not beat myself up over losing out in an auction or going on a long streak without a particular card. On that note, maybe the best answer is that farming is for getting bank, not cards. One of the most demotivating things as I was starting out as a trader was going on long dry streaks without finding a legendary or a card of the type I wanted. On the one hand it made me hungry to make more puppets, but in that quest I may have overextended myself from time to time.
When you farm cards, really you are farming bank to buy the cards you want. Bank is the most important piece of leverage in auctions and the most important thing when it comes to doing what you want to with cards. It does feel good to get that card you want in a pack, but just like IRL TCGs (i was a semi competitive magic the gathering player for a while), it is usually far easier and cheaper to just buy the card. Unless there is a pull event. Pull events are the exception. :P
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [1]:[/B][/COLOR] How's TSP's card program going?
[COLOR=#006400][B]W&S:[/B][/COLOR] It's good! Got a little slowed down because Vietnam and I were both running for Cabinet, but we are expecting it to kick back into high gear here in the extremely near future. I've put several thousand bank's worth of cards and bank into it, and I'm really excited for what we will be able to offer in terms of programming and rewards for those who join. We've spent a ton of time and energy planning this and I think it will go really well.
(That is also the main reason for the hiatus I mentioned in the answer to your previous question.)
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [4]:[/B][/COLOR] How do you suggest one should prepare for a pull event? I've never participated in one so any advice is probably cool :D
[COLOR=#006400][B]W&S:[/B][/COLOR] Make sure all your nations have 5 issues and then just answer them! The most important thing is having a full slate of issues, not card packs, because TCALS only works for a very short time after you receive the pack. You need to open it right away in order to have a chance to pull the card at auction.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [4]:[/B][/COLOR] Oh interesting. I didn’t know that.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [6]:[/B][/COLOR] Do you get your DV from magic?
[COLOR=#006400][B]W&S:[/B][/COLOR] Yes.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [6]:[/B][/COLOR] Knew it.
Abra cadabra, summonus Testlandus!
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [1]:[/B][/COLOR] Testlandia's DV just plummeted 100 bank >>>
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [4]:[/B][/COLOR] I’ma try that.
Abra cadabra, sommonus Xorietus!
[COLOR=#006400][B]W&S:[/B][/COLOR] Sad she isn’t here :’(
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [1]:[/B][/COLOR] What do you believe is key to driving regional engagement in cards?
[COLOR=#006400][B]W&S:[/B][/COLOR] Accessibility, approachability, and good incentives for participation. I think that is one of the things that has gotten people to be interested in TSP's org - we've kept our cards planning channel pretty open to people who want to help out, and we've run giveaways and especially pull events already on rare and unique cards that aren't often featured. So it gives people a chance to get something they wouldn't have been able to get otherwise. And that is a really big part of driving interest, I think.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [7]:[/B][/COLOR] Who got you into cards?
[COLOR=#006400][B]W&S:[/B][/COLOR] That is a little complicated. Certainly the event that sent me off the deep end was TNP's Aleisyr pull event, which I believe you, Dakota, and Sakana told me I should try. But there is a laundry list of people that were prodding me to try it for a while - you three and HumanSanity were probably the ones that did the most damage though. :P
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [4]:[/B][/COLOR] HS does cards? o.O
[COLOR=#006400][B]W&S:[/B][/COLOR] "Does cards" is a strong way of phrasing his tendency to lie dormant for weeks at a time until he decides to wake up and pull 6 copies of a card without realizing it in a pull event.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [8]:[/B][/COLOR] Other than Legendaries, are there other cards that you're interested in collecting?
[COLOR=#006400][B]W&S:[/B][/COLOR] I will be doing a collection for Founderless in season 3. Otherwise - usually I just collect friends and prominent defenders and gameplayers. And my own Season 1 puppets. A ton of my nations have S1 ex-nation flags. :P
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [9]:[/B][/COLOR] Considering that the market is only increasing, do you think the barriers of entry (into the market) are also only increasing?
[COLOR=#006400][B]W&S:[/B][/COLOR] Certainly the barriers to gaining ranks quickly are increasing as more traders get interested and the inflation meta is taking over. And Season 1 cards are much harder to come by than they were even a few months ago. But Season 2 cards, especially legendaries, are continuing to balloon in supply, so it is actually getting (IMO) far easier to collect sought-after cards, since supply is only going up for Season 2.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [10]:[/B][/COLOR] How to get Testlandia?
[COLOR=#006400][B]W&S:[/B][/COLOR] IDK, just farm more :P - I pulled one today.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [10]:[/B][/COLOR] Oh this isn't Card Google, sorry.
[COLOR=#006400][B]W&S:[/B][/COLOR] It’s ok; I’m used to being treated like a search engine :’o
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [10]:[/B][/COLOR] What do you recommend for players like me who are currently not really farming but want to up their card game?
[COLOR=#006400][B]W&S:[/B][/COLOR] So the main thing before you really get going is ask yourself what you want to do. What are your goals? What sort of cards do you want to collect? Do you just want to focus purely on deck value? Or is there a rarity of card you like? Or a region? Or a flag? These are all questions that can guide you. The thing that really got me going was having concrete and achievable DV, rank, and collection goals. I said OK I want top 500 by X date - got that, now I want top 10 TSP by x date, and I wrote these things down. I still have a note in my phone with all my rank milestone dates.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [9]:[/B][/COLOR] How many farms are considered "bare minimum" for someone who is attempting to start farming a decent collection (of say...all nations in a 100+ member UCR)? Or, in your opinion, this minimum doesn't exist?
[COLOR=#006400][B]W&S:[/B][/COLOR] I don’t think there really is a minimum - you can achieve something like that with very few nations. The number of farms you have only affects the speed with which you get the necessary bank and cards, not your ability to collect them.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [9]:[/B][/COLOR] So if I can't collect cards like everyday, maybe I could consider having more puppets? (To make up for it?)
[COLOR=#006400][B]W&S:[/B][/COLOR] I mean, that depends on the time you want to dedicate to it. If you want to put a lot of hours into farming every day and collecting cards quickly, absolutely. If you only have a little bit of time, then having 1000 nations to farm every single day probably isn’t feasible.
One of the reasons I was able to go so ham in December and January is because I had an absolutely insane amount of time and not much else to do with it. I couldn’t leave my apartment except to walk along the river and go to the grocery store.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [8]:[/B][/COLOR] Having completed the S2 Legendary set, and not being a mass hoarder of the entire rarity, what is your approach to selling duplicate copies received from farming? I understand the "Farrakhan" approach to dump for whatever bids are present contributes to deflation and newbies getting dropped by KK/Mikeswill. Though I've also seen asks below MV sitting for weeks (either unwanted or unknown about). Does a middle-path exist, or what thoughts do you have on selling Legendaries?
[COLOR=#006400][B]W&S:[/B][/COLOR] My approach to selling is that I basically keep all the cards unless I see that someone is looking for one, or I see a reasonable bid. There are only a few legendary cards that I hoard - notably Glen-Rhodes and Pencil Sharpeners 2. otherwise I just keep what i find unless someone is specifically looking for them.
Eventually I will look to increase my market share on a lot more legendary cards, but that is a long way off. I've moved on to collecting Season 1 legendary cards for now.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [8]:[/B][/COLOR] Mikeswill has mentioned how blowing past their deck limit has allowed them to gather more cards of their friends. You said you want to collect your friends' cards, do you intend to blow past your deck limit?
[COLOR=#006400][B]W&S:[/B][/COLOR] Basically the only reason I increased my deck limit for a while is because it made it easier to send myself legendary cards and others I liked that I got from farming. I don't anticipate doing that for much longer - I plan to use one of my existing nations as a storage nation for bank, transfer cards, etc, and then start transferring things to my main. I think the magic number will be 1000 cards - once I hit that I will stop increasing my deck limit and just blow past it.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [11]:[/B][/COLOR] What would be your advice to any new players that want to collect all legendaries?
[COLOR=#006400][B]W&S:[/B][/COLOR] Great question! First thing is that you need bank and a lot of it. Yes, it's possible to get most of the legendaries by farming, but that takes a lot of time and you can't collect them all that way.
Unfortunately, buying legendaries means dealing with a lot of traders who have a lot more resources than you. Mostly Koem Kab and Mikeswill, but also flippers, MV sharks, and others looking to make money. The most important thing for legendary auctions is to know that you will almost always be at a disadvantage in terms of leverage, and will thus need to know how and when to cut your losses.
My favorite strategy, because I have a strong distaste for long auctions, was to match a below-MV ask, and then whenever KK or someone else with a leverage advantage showed up and overbid me, just bid straight to MV and allow them to drop me there. Thus I would get the card at or near its market value, and they would make a profit from the drop. Everyone gets what they want.
The golden rule is to never, ever, ever bid more than you are willing to buy a card for, and likewise never, ever, ever ask less than you are willing to sell a card for. That is how you lose money.
Still, for some high value CTE cards like Ramaeus, Caelapes, NERVUN, Altmer Dominion, Drasnia, etc., pull events are your best friend. Those cards are extremely expensive because they are well-known players who CTEd, and thus quantities are limited. Finding sellers is hard, and when someone is willing to sell it is often for very high prices.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [11]:[/B][/COLOR] You said that the best way is to match a below-MV ask first, then allow people to drop you. What if there isn't an ask below MV? What should people do then?
[COLOR=#006400][B]W&S:[/B][/COLOR] If there isn't an ask below MV, you are often safe from getting dropped. Koem Kab usually does not get involved in auctions going on at or slightly above MV.
If the auction is significantly above MV (say, a Season 1 legendary with an MV of 25 that is being sold for 50), he will often placea bid and ask of his own to inflate the card, but he will not fight or drop you. He is only inflating his own deck value more by creating a second match, so for your sake it's benign.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [12]:[/B][/COLOR] [In response to Event Participant #11’s question] Get a friend (or several) with farms that are willing to donate spares to you. ;P
[COLOR=#006400][B]W&S:[/B][/COLOR] Having friends helps a LOT. :P
I got Ramaeus, Altmer Dominion, Nova Hollandia, and several other hard-to-find ones from gifts. And YOU gifted me my Soops. <_<
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [13]:[/B][/COLOR] For Season 3, do you think we can expect an increase or decrease in legendary cards?
[COLOR=#006400][B]W&S:[/B][/COLOR] That’s a really good question. I think in the short term Season 2 legendaries will go up, but there are so many copies of most of them that I don’t know how far. The thing about the S2 leg market is that there is just so much supply especially compared to S1. I notice this the more and more I try to hunt for season 1 legs - supply simply far outpaces demand in the S2 market.
Still, if the continuous influx of new copies slows, we can at least expect the general deflation to slow as well.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [12]:[/B][/COLOR] [In response to Event Participant #13’s question] Do you mean the value of legendaries or the number of them in circulation? Going by previous seasons, they're fixed at 0.1% of all nations at the time of the snapshot, so we'll be seeing ~240 of them for S3 based on the current number of nations.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [13]:[/B][/COLOR] Number in circulation; sorry if that was unclear.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [12]:[/B][/COLOR] No, your question was clear; I wouldn't have assumed you were talking about value. :P
[COLOR=#006400][B]W&S:[/B][/COLOR] Oh, sorry. I did assume it was the value. I was also extremely tired and had drank about half a bottle of wine that evening. :P
But [Event Participant #12] is right. Both previous seasons had 0.1% of all cards as legendary. So I would expect a significant increase for S3.
[hr]
[size=medium]Q&A with The Salaxalans[/SIZE]
[COLOR=#006400][B]The Salaxalans:[/B][/COLOR]
**Potatoes and Branding**
*"When you are the potatoes guy everyone is like, 'Yeah, it's the potatoes guy!'" - Max Barry*
Welcome one and all to the Potato portion of the Cards Symposium! Thank you to the North Pacific Card Guild for hosting this Symposium, and thank you to DGES for inviting me to speak on a most important topic. There can never be enough potatoes, after all!
For those of you who don’t know me, I’ve been playing NS since late 2012, with most of my time spent in Spiritus. I was always friendly with people from outside the region, and Spiritus had some minor prominence in assorted NS events. Then, five years ago, the first Secretary-General election occurred. I saw that the event had begun, and had the following sequence of thoughts: “Oh an election! I should run! Hmm… What should my campaign be… Uh… Potatoes!!!” And thus a brand was born. I spent the entire election screaming nonstop about potatoes, narrowly losing in the final round. From this point on, potatoes were a frequent theme for me and by extension Spiritus. Our government now has assorted potato-themed titles, in NS events we usually have a potato-themed name, in the second Secretary-General election I was Kuriko’s running mate and potatoes became featured prominently in the platform, and recently in Spiritus we even held a potato pardon where I drew faces on two potatoes and everyone in Spiritus could vote on which to pardon. The other, unfortunately, was smashed with a hammer.
Of course, potatoes are a silly thing to base an identity on. But that’s exactly why it works: potatoes are simple, kind of funny, easy to grasp. Taking an idea and running with it to the furthest extent possible until you are entirely associated with it, that gives you an identity so that people know who you are even if you’ve never met. Spiritus and I have embraced the potato as a symbol of whimsy and friendliness, infusing our region and interactions with others with those characteristics. It has become a great tool for diplomacy, recently uniting many regions under the banner of the Potato Alliance for N-Day, helping us to forge relationships with regions we previously didn’t know as well, bonding over potatoes and our shared hopes of victory. The yelling and cheering about potatoes rarely let up for the entire 24 hours; such a spudly display had never been seen before! The ultimate culmination of the potato brand was Max Barry talking about it a little bit in an author Q&A livestream several months ago, and soon after sending me a “Special Potato Edition” signed copy of Providence, his newest book. All it takes is screaming about the same food item for several years nonstop!
Now, this is a cards symposium, so I suppose I have to bring this around to cards somehow! As many of you may be aware I have been collecting all potato-related cards. Anything with potato flags, nation names, or quotes, I want them all! Aside from collecting cards from my region and somewhat passively trying to collect staff cards, potatoes are the main goal. Deck value is of no interest to me, I’m just trying to be silly and collect my potatoes! This has resulted in my looking at cards from an entirely different perspective; I only recently started making some more nations so I could farm more effectively, and I have yet to use any scripts. Potato farming is the only goal, something silly and fun that isn’t too stressful. I can hang out with everyone collecting cards, see all the wackiness going on, but not get caught up in any stress from complicated trades or high level deals. It’s quite peaceful, and fascinating to see what goes on not having to worry about anything affecting me! Of course, being an admin in the cards server means I do have to actually know what’s going on, but I’ve tried to carry the whimsical and friendly potato attitude from Spiritus to the NS Cards server as well, keeping it a light-hearted place where everyone can hang out and have fun.
In short, the humble potato went from a meme campaign pledge, to a personal and regional brand, to a mindset and attitude brought to interregional interactions, card collecting, and NS in general. It’s difficult, in NS, to separate Spiritus or myself from potatoes, providing a way for all to know us. Branding is important; taking a simple brand and running with it can lead to great renown or at least, in the case of the potato, bemused bewilderment.
Thank you all for reading, and do not forget: A potato for all!
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [1]:[/B][/COLOR] What species of potato is your favourite and can you crest a brand name you can utilise to your advantage?
[COLOR=#006400][B]The Salaxalans:[/B][/COLOR] I love all potatoes equally!
And Potato Alliance has been a pretty good brand name so far. :P
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [2]:[/B][/COLOR] How do you find all potato cards? (What methods do you use to effectively find cards that would probably only been found in packs otherwise?)
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [3]:[/B][/COLOR] (All potatoes are equal, but some are more equal than others.)
[COLOR=#006400][B]The Salaxalans:[/B][/COLOR] TNP's Card Queries tool has been vital. I did searches for everything I could think of, with obvious things like "potato" or "tater" but also "fries" or "tato", anything that might be referring to potatoes. Recently I realized that a lot of cards relating to fast food restaurants might contain potatoes because there will be fries if the flag shows a meal, so I searched for those as well. In addition I rely on people noticing cards that have a potato only in their flag; there's no way to search for those but periodically people who know I want potatoes will notice one.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [4]:[/B][/COLOR] Since we all know your favourite vegetable, what's your least favourite?
[COLOR=#006400][B]The Salaxalans:[/B][/COLOR] Brussels sprouts. >_<
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [5]:[/B][/COLOR] They're not that bad; eggplants are worse.
[COLOR=#006400][B]The Salaxalans:[/B][/COLOR] Oooh.
Hmmm.
You might be right.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [5]:[/B][/COLOR] Fellow eggplant hater! ^_^
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [6]:[/B][/COLOR] I've always been curious about this one thing. :O
What's your opinion/thoughts/feelings on the mention of your potato card collection in your commendation Morover authored?
(Specifically the following clause: "The collection of a massive amount of artwork commemorating the starchy food, the full assemblage of which is valued at an astronomical price")
[COLOR=#006400][B]The Salaxalans:[/B][/COLOR] I thought it was wonderful. xD
Official recognition of potatoes is a great thing!
[hr]
[size=medium]Q&A with Atlae[/SIZE]
[COLOR=#006400][B]Atlae:[/B][/COLOR] Hey all. I’m Atlae.
I joined NationStates in February 2016, so it’s been almost five years on this stupid game. Last night, at the behest of friends, I found myself addicted to another card-based minigame, Magic the Gathering. :P - But until I leave cards forever with a huge giveaway I’ll still be in NationStates, The East Pacific, and cards for now. I joined the cards server on March 18 of 2020, probably at the behest of y0, but didn’t start collecting until April. My deck value really took off in May due to the Loop pull event. You may know me as the guy who’s collecting all TEP Cards (S1 is 85% complete, S2 is 93% complete as I’m writing this), or a member of Big Farma, or, for the purpose of this lecture, Deputy Steward of TEAPOT, The Eastern Association of Pacifican Ornamental Traders. I understand that my lecture, how to grow a regional organization, may be a bit strange considering that this Cards Symposium is hosted by the TNP Card Guild, who are doing a great job in many respects and probably know more about building an organization than I do. Nevertheless, I hope this lecture can be of use to you all.
The story about how I got into cards and how TEP got into cards is pretty interesting. It was April 2018, under Queen Yuno’s Delegacy, when cards were introduced. For the months leading up to April, we in the TEP government had been plotting. Finally, on March 18th, “Liberate The East Pacific” was proposed. On March 23rd, the Eastern Loligarchical Order (ELO) was formed, bringing in a whole new era of Francoism. But it was all a silly prank and fooled quite a few people, some of whom are now in power today. It was kind of stressful behind the scenes but it was enjoyable being on the other side of it. We really thought we’d done a better prank than what Max Barry could pull. And frankly, trading cards? That didn’t seem all that interesting, to be honest.
Of course, there were still traders in The East Pacific. Many had holdovers from April 1, but some like VW53aland were actively trading. For a while, Queen Yuno was probably at the top of DV charts in The East Pacific. But cards was never a thing that could unite a community like regional government or R/D could. It’s hard collecting data about this since the DMZ (server under Yuno and Fedele) was archived and I didn’t think to ask to reopen it until this lecture. Maybe I’ll ask and receive more information about the history of cards in The East Pacific, but for the purposes of this lecture let’s assume that cards weren’t really prevalent in The East Pacific until Season 2.
In December of 2019, some nerd named Evrigenis or y0 joined The East Pacific. Like the nerd he is, he got addicted to cards and got his friends to collect them as well. By late February 2020, he had started a “farming operation.” The group chat that would eventually become TEAPOT was formed on March 9th and added people one at a time over the course of a few months. Of course, that time was the pandemic, which probably freed up a lot of time for some people, like me.
y0 probably was the one who created the channel #ns-trading-cards in TEP’s server. That’s where I probably first got into cards. At this point, I had a bunch of leftover R/D puppets that I would farm, and I would choose each option manually (based on the number on the puppet mod number of options). Then I got into scripting, which made my life a lot easier and probably changed my life the most but we can talk about that another day. I shared these with my fellow East Pacifican farmers, albeit with some questionable advice (I mentioned that I put a walkie-talkie on the enter button to hold it down).
In late May, y0 also ran a pull event on the legendary very epic figure of 1 Infinite Loop, widely considered the founder of The East Pacific. Unfortunately, due to blocks (a time before TCALS nerfs when we didn’t know much) we got 2 pulls, one of which was me. That probably jumpstarted me into cards.
A few weeks later in June, we discussed the future of our little card farmers’ group. For the 10th slot in our group chat, we invited Sakana, who was this large figure in cards in TEP that I guess (I was probably intimidated by her and her place in the community lol) Sidenote, but Sakana was one of the reasons I got into cards in the first place. I almost heisted her once during a transfer but she still was nice to me and encouraged me. Thanks Sak!
Anyway, we decided to be our own separate, independent, non-governmental organization. This probably sets TEAPOT apart from many other card organizations because theirs is a ministry or a fully integrated part of the government. It was sort of modeled after TNP’s card guild, but then they made their Ministry of Cards so uh honestly I don’t know if it made a difference or not.
Reading through the old chats, I smile with nostalgia when we decided to choose names. Cards Bureau, Cards Mafia, Cards Agricultural Department… It looks like I suggested the acronym TEAPOT and Sakana filled in the blanks. I’m also proud to say I designed the TEAPOT logo (I also redesigned it this year) but my proposal for the TEAPOT flag was bad and I’m glad it wasn’t approved.
Growing TEAPOT was maybe a little hard first. After gaining legitimacy through a Magisterium resolution, our opus memorandi was to contact some of the traders in TEP to get them to join. Well, mostly people from outside TEP came into join at first, because card organizations!
The first major thing that TEAPOT did was in September, organizing the Tea House of Cards festival with Lazarus and XKI. It was a cards festival not unlike this here Cards Symposium, actually, with pull events, games, and all that. Great minds think alike? :P
After the Tea House of Cards festival, TEAPOT has been holding monthly pull events and will soon start giveaways soon. In almost 9 months, TEAPOT has grown to about 30 people. I don’t know how much people other cards organizations have gotten, but I’d assume we’re doing pretty well. The North Pacific’s Cards Guild has 90 people, but they have had a nice head start and everything. Well deserved too.
It seems that regional card organizations are now really in vogue. While I don’t know everything about each region’s motivations in cards, I would guess that this is due to an increased focus on cards being a community endeavor rather than something a few farmers somewhere can rack up without serving any real purpose to the game. I know that regions like The Pacific, The South Pacific, and The Rejected Realms have created their own cards organizations and hosted pull events as well.
To all the new cards organizations out there (and DavanteAdams, hi!) I encourage you to band together like XKI, Laz, and TEP did earlier. Everyone will start out small, so working together will get you where you need to go in terms of human capital. In addition, you’ll meet all sorts of new people and perspectives and might even boost foreign relations. This may have the downside of cards politicking but unfortunately there’s not much I can do about that.
In addition, I’d suggest reaching out to small farmers starting out in your region. You’re not going to find people just by going down the DV leaderboard. What you need is a community who can eventually grow and find their own niche in trading. A regional telegram works if you want to go the lazy way about this. :stuck_out_tongue:
One thing I would honestly say TEAPOT has struggled with (this is the same with many other cards organizations) is that sometimes, it seems like a group of people that hosts pull events now and again. Pull events are great, of course, but they aren’t everything. Also, anybody with a lot of bank these days can hold a pull event, no regional organization required. Thus, once an organization has its footing, try and diversify. Card giveaways are really trendy now, games like scavenger hunts, etc. Always look for new ideas.
Overall, I think that the space for regional cards organizations is growing. Our good friends in The North Pacific have reigned as the most powerful region in terms of cards for a while, but in a year or a few years this may change. I’m eager to see what new cards organizations will thrive and how this will effect the meta of the trading cards minigame.
Thank you for reading, and I will try and answer any and all questions you may have. It can be about TEAPOT, about me, anything really I guess.
Further reading:
y0 and Gr
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [1]:[/B][/COLOR] What would you recommend for a fledgling regional card organisation to focus on? (Special consideration to pitfalls that TEAPOT may have fallen in/narrowly avoided.)
[COLOR=#006400][B]Atlae:[/B][/COLOR] The most important thing in my view for a regional organization - of any regional organization really is outreach. One reason why is because it's for the very survival of an organization. At the core an organization is a group of people. Over time this group of people will shrink unless you find a way to increase the amount of people. Thus you have to think long term about what things will get people into the organization. That's where you think of things like pull events and games.
Another reason is because it benefits the cards minigame as a whole. For the most part, adding more people into the game makes it better. You might be annoyed at the MV sharks, but they indisputably made the game more interesting. And if you really hate them, convince them not to when they join your organization.
I realize that I forgot to mention something that TEAPOT struggled with. It's important to have some form of conflict resolution or mediation procedure. Although we did have anti-heist clauses in our charter, we didn't count for people deflating other people's cards to deflate their DV. Now whether that is a thing that needs to be adjudicated is honestly up to the community to decide.
I also regret not doing other events with TEAPOT, since I mostly just held pull events once a month.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [2]:[/B][/COLOR] It was mentioned that many of the initial members of TEAPOT were from other regions which helped the organisation grow in the initial period, what other advantages have you seen from the more relaxed membership requirements?
[COLOR=#006400][B]Atlae:[/B][/COLOR] Buffed membership stats. :P
In particular, 9003 and Racoda came into TEAPOT pretty early on. They helped with scripts and other materials like farming guides.
Overall you will probably get like card cosmos in your organization. That's good as long as they actually contribute. Otherwise it gives you a false sense of success when you don't have people from your own region in your org.
[COLOR=#006400][B]Atlae:[/B][/COLOR] ...I'm bored and like to hear myself talk, do you have any questions about me specifically? :P
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [2]:[/B][/COLOR] What was the motivation behind starting a regional collection?
[COLOR=#006400][B]Atlae:[/B][/COLOR] For a few months I didn't think I'd be able to do it. I probably started because hey, I know some of these people.
I think Vylixan had something to do with it; seemed like a cool thing to do and I had a lot of new time on my hands with COVID.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [3]:[/B][/COLOR] How did you choose the nation name ‘The Atlae Isles’?
[COLOR=#006400][B]Atlae:[/B][/COLOR] It was a long time ago. It's hard to think of names.
I wanted to go "Atlantis", but of course that didn't exist.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [3]:[/B][/COLOR] Cards question now - Other than TEP S3 - do you have any particular one goal in mind for when S3 hits?
[COLOR=#006400][B]Atlae:[/B][/COLOR] Well I plan on collecting mottoes too.
Probably stockpiling specific cards to use as mass transfers and hoard legendaries.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [4]:[/B][/COLOR] Atlae, for S3 I should give you my card and you should treasure it like gold!
[COLOR=#006400][B]Atlae:[/B][/COLOR] How much will it cost?
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [4]:[/B][/COLOR] F r e e.
[COLOR=#006400][B]Atlae:[/B][/COLOR] The card will be worth 0.00?
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [4]:[/B][/COLOR] Ohhh. I thought you meant how much will it cost you lol.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [3]:[/B][/COLOR] So, since you like questions about yourself, have you always been a legend of Zelda fan?
[COLOR=#006400][B]Atlae:[/B][/COLOR] Well I really got into it in 9th grade.
So like 4 years ago.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [3]:[/B][/COLOR] Do you have any Zelda themed puppet sets?
[COLOR=#006400][B]Atlae:[/B][/COLOR] Check Atlae-1 to Atlae-200.
Mipha, Champion Daruk, Champion Revali, Lady Urbosa are all Zelda themed.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [3]:[/B][/COLOR] :D
Thanks for answering. ^_^
[COLOR=#006400][B]Atlae:[/B][/COLOR] Np!
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [5]:[/B][/COLOR] Is it possible to create a bank in Nationstates?
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [6]:[/B][/COLOR] Only by junking or selling cards.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [5]:[/B][/COLOR] Ah.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [6]:[/B][/COLOR] No way will there be an option to buy any.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [5]:[/B][/COLOR] Would it be worth it?
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [6]:[/B][/COLOR] No, it'd just become a pay to win on the card market.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [7]:[/B][/COLOR] Agreed.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [5]:[/B][/COLOR] I meant a bank set up by private players.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [6]:[/B][/COLOR] How would that even work?
[COLOR=#006400][B]Atlae:[/B][/COLOR] [In response to Event Participant #5’s question] Probably. I don't know enough about banks but theoretically people could.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [3]:[/B][/COLOR] What is next for you in NS, generally?
[COLOR=#006400][B]Atlae:[/B][/COLOR] Couping TRR
Idk really.
[COLOR=#000080][B]Event Participant [3]:[/B][/COLOR] “Time to junk those TEP cards you have bids on.”
[COLOR=#006400][B]Atlae:[/B][/COLOR] Nuuu.
[hr]
[size=medium]Farrakhan's Lecture[/SIZE]
"But one man's rubbish may be another's treasure, and what is the standard of value in such a pursuit as this?"
-Hector Urquhart 'Popular Tales of the West Highlands''
As-Salaam Alaikum
One of the great things about the NS Card Trading Mini-Game is its open-ended nature. Players can engage as often or as little as they like, choose their own goals, and find their levels of satisfaction. My chosen style focuses on making a market for my card and managing the challenges that come with it. Back in 2019, I played for the short-term, intending to land the Top Deck Value before the end of the year. In four months, I managed the Farrakhan Season 1 card to around 500 MV, with purchases at a peak ranging between 400-800 Bank, eventually reaching my goal. For those interested, you can read more about the details of my earlier system in-The Monthly Snapshot - Issue 2 (Trader of the Month/Interview).
When I decided to return to active play last Summer with a new campaign, my goal was to rejuvenate the Farrakhan Season 1 card, reach 100 total copies, outperform the Legendary cards whose MV I had previously failed to displace, and score the top MV among all actively traded cards in the game (not including expired transfer cards). It took several months but on the day of this review (1/30/2021), I finally reached my magic number of 100 copies, and have peaked at an MV of 1,126, completing my goal!
In this write-up, I will offer my thoughts on the ways a player can operate as a Market Maker for their card, discuss some of the challenges that are inherent within the structure of the game, share my experiences using certain strategies, and discuss different metrics players can use to evaluate a Market Maker managed Card as a potential store of value.
The Impossible Trinity
The challenges inherent in making a market for a Card, are similar to that of managing a currency in the FOREX market. Commitment to certain actions will limit the potentiality of others. Every moment of the game, NS players face three conflicting options:
Maintain Bank with full liquidity
Provide Undivided Support for a Position
Retain Flexibility to Support Multiple Positions simultaneously
By definition, focus on any one element will nullify the ability to carry out the other two options. For example, Leg 1 of the triangle (retaining a fully liquid Bank) will prevent a player from placing Standing Bids and/or stepping into a live auction. Leg 2 (Making a Market) inhibits taking on additional outside positions and makes bank capital less liquid. Leg 3 (flexibility to pursue multiple positions) weakens the potential to act as a Market Maker and commits liquid Bank into the market. No player can escape the Impossible Trinity, we can only set goals and manage with-in the framework. Failure to effectively balance and navigate the limitations imposed by this trilemma will often lead to severe consequences: Bank Insolvency, Crashes in Market Value, Boom/Bust Cycles in Total Deck Value, inability to fulfill collection needs, etc. Player beware.
From the standpoint of my experiences playing as a Market Maker, the main trade-off has come from Leg 3 (flexibility/diversity in building a collection). With a focus on using Capital Formation to fund Bank, I willingly sacrificed appreciation of the artistic aspects of the game, using Card Farming to liquidate positions for future investment. At times, I have focused nearly exclusively on Leg 1, which delayed the fulfillment of goals that could only be brought about through Leg 2 (ie. realizing maximum Deck Value, actualizing near-term Farrakhan S1/S2 MV potential). I have used a Reserve Bank( Gold Crescent Alistan)to build a second Market Maker position in Farrakhan S2, and a Treasury( FMM1)to help manage Farrakhan S1, but elements of Leg 3 don't stretch far beyond that in my system. Keep these types of trade-offs in mind when measuring if my methods would align with what makes the game enjoyable for you.
Advice For Beginners Acting As A Market Maker
Whether you are a long-time player, an experienced player who recently had their card generated for the first time, or are completely new to the game, developing the value of your card can be a great experience. Below are some tips which may prove helpful:
*Determine the percentage of Total Bank you are willing to commit toward acquiring copies, repeating Standing Bids, and/or enacting Direct Market purchases (buying from your own account) toward your position. The larger the percentage invested, the more aggressive your approach, the greater your potential return. The trade-off is that your degree of investment will come at the expense of other aspects of the game (ie. Impossible Trinity).
*Set a target for how much cash flow you will need weekly to reach your goals. For example, if you can generate 10 Bank a week, and you are willing to budget half toward acting as a Market Maker, that's 20 Bank a month, 240 Bank a year. Measure that against your card's potential appreciation over its Junk Value. With consistency, the compounded effect can be great over time.
*Capital formationis the lifeblood of effective Market Making. To be successful as a Market Maker, a player must be prepared to provide a strong and consistent stream of cash flow into their Bank. Time is always of the essence. Active purchases need to be made, positions need to be supported with Standing Bids, and a reserve needs to be plentiful and liquid to prevent retrenchment. Below is a break-down of the Top 250 cards with-in each rarity tier, which shows where the most lucrative bids can be found:
As the chart above shows, the cards that carry the most double and triple-digit Standing Bids are in the Legendary market. Having owned and sold every Legendary card that has been produced at some point, my experience has been that even those Legendary cards with single-digit Standing Bids, listed at deep discounts to their MV (and in rare cases at discounts to their JV) have consistently outperformed the return on almost all other rarities when placed into Auction. If your goal is to build Bank, this is where the money is.
*Reserve Banks & Treasury Accounts: In line with the challenges imposed by the Impossible Trinity, a Market Maker will need to find a way to mitigate saving and investing needs. I have found it helpful to dedicate separate accounts to this purpose. My Reserve Bank (Gold Crescent Alistan) exists to buy new positions of Farrakhan Season 2 with recurring Standing Bids (set at a Hard Peg) as well as handle general tasks (ie. fund undercapitalized puppets during card farming process). My Treasury account (FMM1) is structured as a pure Put against Farrakhan Season 1 and places recurring Standing Bids at a deep discount to MV (set at a Crawling Band). While the Reserve is purposely active, the Treasury is purposely passive. In both cases, I find it helpful to deposit sums into each account that are large enough (either through direct transfers or sustained farming campaigns) that the capital committed will last for a long time. The set it and forget it approach allows for both fiscal discipline and psychological freedom (knowing there is a backstop in place).
*Heisting: Going through the process of Card Farming, countless opportunities will abound to interfere with other players transferring Bank through the auction process. Placing a low Ask on a newly obtained card pulled via TCALS can reap large amounts of Bank in minimal time. While often easy money, I choose to abstain. People of all ages and experience levels engage in this hobby purely for enjoyment, and I take no pleasure in exploiting their moments of vulnerability. These heisting opportunities happen so frequently that I established a dedicated account to store these cards when pulled: FGWF(Farrakhan Good Will Foundation). If in time these cards develop attractive MV, I will add them to my wealth account. If a player contacts me and requests the card for strategic use, I usually just gift it to them. I find this approach to be more rewarding than taking Bank. Feel free to choose your own adventure.
*Developmental Stage: As your return on expense is most advantageous at the beginning of the Market-Making process (ie. when velocity is high, card supply is robust, and before your MV has shown much appreciation above JV), it is to your benefit to obtain copies for as low a price as possible, for as long as possible. With time, your ability to purchase at a slight premium to junk value will end, as other players will come to see your card as being a store of value. Players will then begin to either charge you at a premium above MV, or begin to hold your card for longer periods for appreciation or future intended sales. Over time, this can generate an expensive feedback loop. Try to resist the urge to realize true price potential too quickly while the supply of copies is plentiful, as doing so will come at the expense of raising your costs long before necessary.
*Law of Diminishing Returns: At a constant rate of investment, the percentage gains from building your card will decrease over time. The only way to change the math is to increase the amount of capital you are committing to your position. For example: if you build the MV of an Epic card from 5 to 10, you will reap a 100% return. Taking that same card from 10 to 15 will only reap a 50% gain from the same amount of time and capital being invested. This downward trend will only continue to accelerate without a change in the financing structure. Options include: i. increasing the base amount of savings into your Bank while still investing at the same percentage, ii. investing at a more aggressive percentage of Bank without a change in your base savings, or iii. increasing your base savings while also increasing the percentage rate of Bank investment.
*An Average Calculatorcan be used to plan out the effects of future transactions on your card's MV. It takes five sales to generate an effect, and beyond that, the average of your last 10 sales will be scored.
*Sequence of Order Execution: When the system calculates a card's MV, the initial sale will be scored as most recent, but when there are multiple transactions with various prices with-in a sale, the ordering of the other positions will prove haphazard (often with the lowest as scoring most recent). For this reason, it is to your advantage to initiate higher-priced transactions after a multi-sale auction concludes, as opposed to placing them in real-time during this type of auction. Example: You are buying your card from two players for 10, a new seller drops their ask for one of the Bids to 9. Wait until AFTER the auction ends to buy out the remaining higher Ask so it will be guaranteed to place as the most recent sale sequentially. This will benefit your card's MV calculation for a longer time.
*Counteracting Short Sales: Dealing with market hazards is the responsibility of any Market Maker. At times, players will choose to sell below your Standing Bid, which can reset your MV downward in the near-term. While this can appear disadvantageous at the outset, if you invest into your position at a constant rate, steep discounts can prove highly beneficial, lowering your overall cost basis, increasing your rate of return, and allowing for greater profit over time than there otherwise would be. This is one of the reasons why publicly traded companies will willingly enact stock splits. If this happens to your position, simply place a Direct Purchase (or series of purchases) above the intended original Bid price to even out the difference. For example, a Standing Bid of 5 is matched to an Ask of .01. The trade will settle at 2.5. In a subsequent transaction after that Auction ends, proactively sell the card to yourself from another account at 10 (target price of 5 (2)) and the algorithm will even out the MV back to your target price. If you are capital constrained, you can accomplish the same goal with a series of staggered purchases that trend upward at an affordable rate as savings recover over time.
*Saturation Points: In line with the challenges imposed by the Law of Diminishing Returns, a mature position can reach a point where it is Priced to Perfection, as very few owners outside of the Market Maker wish to transact. This can occur as new supplies of the card dry up, while existing copies offer owners a store of value that is decidedly more attractive than alternative cards on the market. A victim ts own success, very few 'better cards' exist within the marketplace for which owners want to sell to raise Bank, even with the incentive of extraordinarily high Standing Bids. At that point, it may be to the advantage of a Market Maker to encourage actions that will temporarily bring MV down (ie. Free Floating the position, coordinating Pull Events). While this may seem counter-intuitive, when a Market Maker is at a Saturation Point, a short-term retrenchment can reset conditions for a new campaign, with even greater future returns than can be found under the status-quo.
*Over-Extension: real-time market conditions may cause a Market Maker to spend more of their Bank capital than their liquidity levels can comfortably support. When this happens, the number of repeat Standing Bids that can be placed at MV decreases, a red flag for Owners who view the card as a store of value. Options for the Market Maker include i. Increasing base savings, ii. Decreasing the number of repeat Standing Bids, iii. Lowering the Bank amount placed behind the position to some percentage below current MV. Over-extension marks a period where retrenchment becomes more likely until savings are replenished
*Bank Insolvency: a far more severe and bearish condition than over-extension, a Market Maker's savings can become thoroughly exhausted to a point where Standing Bids can no longer be placed anywhere near MV, possibly not at all. Operations may or may not cease, as clear gaps become visible in both the time between new Standing Bids and the Bank amounts being placed in support behind them. A sale matched at a discount to MV may take a significant period to recover (possibly never) and it becomes likely that the card will trend toward a lower base, creating a negative feedback loop. Unless and until Bank savings are recapitalized, options for the Market Maker include i. Free-floating (allowing the card to trade for some time with either a token Standing Bid or without any Standing Bid at all) or ii. Total Capitulation (walking away from the position entirely). With time, a Market Maker can recover from Bank insolvency, but it is not guaranteed
*Managed Decline: if a Market Maker is planning to make a change to their system that is likely to decelerate operations (ie. less card farming, committing bank to alternate positions, playing the game less entirely) there are protective steps that can be taken to minimize damage to the card's MV. Options include i. placing a stream of deeply discounted Standing Bids to publicly set a known floor, ii. performing Open Market operations (buying from your account) at the discounted MV to re-establish some form of price support, and iii. making occasional Direct Market purchases when Standing Asks are listed at affordable prices. A Managed Decline marks a bearish period for the position, and while it can seem depressing, the power to one day reverse this condition always remains within the hands of the Market Maker.
*Taking Time-Off: Eventually, your level of motivation will decrease. Maybe you will achieve your overall MV and DV goals, and the game will become a less enjoyable pursuit. Or perhaps something in 'real-life' will take priority over your free time. Don't be afraid or feel guilty about your card losing value in the interim of your direct support. In the real world, even the best of publicly traded companies have experienced bad quarters with intervals when their MV trended downward. Periods of decline build a sense of character into the history of your performance as a whole. Personally, I prefer to play in stints, with a goal in mind that's tied to some form of end trigger. My first goal was a time limit to achieve Top Deck Value. I then took a break, only later to return with the new 100 copies challenge. I find that creating hard deadlines and knowing there is a finish line ahead, makes things more fun. At the end of the day, all a Market Maker ever needs to input a price that trends upward are copies of the card, capital to invest, and the talent/willingness to spend time playing. If the latter isn't there, you can always return and recover using the tools of the former when the stars align again.
Metrics To Access The Value of Market Maker Run Cards
*Amount of realized profit the Market Maker has produced for other players through direct purchases of the card
Total Return on Investment the Market Maker generates for other players who hold the card as a store of value
Total sales volume the Market Maker generates relative to other cards
Amount of Liquid Bank the Market Maker has committed to supporting the card
#, recency and amount of alternate Bids the Market Maker has placed into other positions
# of copies the Market Maker owns
# of trades behind the position
Recency of time between transactions
Four measures of Intrinsic Value (i. Junk Value, ii. Highest Standing Bid, iii. Projected MV after the sale at Highest Standing Bid, and iv. Projected MV after purchase at lowest Standing Ask)
Velocity (frequency of Find History)
Likelihood of Pull Event target/capacity to withstand
Likelihood of Short Target/capacity to withstand
Number/Diversity/Recency of Standing Bids
Standing Bids relative to Market Value
Standing Bids relative to Peers
Ways To Protect A Position
Hard Peg
Two factors to take into account when evaluating the strength of any given price peg are i. Standing Bid to Current Market Value and ii. Standing Bid to Junk Value. A Hard Peg involves placing a Put (Standing Bid) either at, very near, or above the current Market Value. This encourages sales to transact very close to MV. A Hard Peg is the most aggressive form of price support, creating a high incentive for players to sell directly to the Bidder, and requires the highest commitment of real-time Bank support to maintain continuously. When acting as a Market Maker, you can use the Impossible Trinity paradigm to structure the degree to which such an approach is feasible toward your overall goals, balancing Bank solvency, with liquidity to engage other positions.
Example: Season 2 Farrakhan (entirety)
When Season 2 began, I prioritized building a position using a Hard Peg at a Premium to Junk Value with the purchase price as low as the market would allow. In review, Farrakhan S2 has never traded below .58 (a slight premium to JV) and began trading six times JV (independent of my purchases) within its first three sales. For several weeks, I was able to build a position from other owners with a Hard Peg of 5 Bank (10 times JV of an Epic .5). With time, the Market Value would rise in line with the Hard Peg, which would lead owners to Ask at prices at a premium to MV (the premium over JV eventually ceased to be an attractive enough metric to entice sales).
Another factor that bids up a Hard Peg as Market Value rises is a Card's growing appeal as a future store of value. Meaning the development of a belief that future value will become greater than the present value of a sale at the current Standing Bid. A growing number of owners will begin to either ask for much higher prices (ie. 1,000, 10,000) and/or hold the position outright with no interest in selling, while other players begin to place standing competitive Bids for the card of their own.
To maintain a dominant position, a Market Maker must be prepared to deploy more capital (ie. multiple Bids at higher prices than other players are willing to pay) to Crowd Out other buyers. In my case, multiple Standing Bids of 6 slowly grew to 10, 15, 20, 25, 30, 35, 38. Standalone purchases would run as high as 50. Eventually, an equilibrium price would be found where many players would sell, while very few players would attempt to bid. Keep in mind, while you may have the funds to win every auction, there are times when doing so will be a Pyrrhic victory, as the process of winning a bidding war will raise your MV and your future purchasing costs. An additional background factor is that of time. With the conversion into a new season, the market of the future will no longer organically generate the card at the same rate it currently does, raising potential Market Value through scarcity.
In retrospect, a Hard Peg (at a premium to JV, and later at/near MV) was very successful in allowing me to build a large position in my card (at the time of this write-up, 110 copies). The trade-off was that I had to deploy a great deal of capital consistently, budget liquidity for an extended period, and artificially keep down the potential market value (which also sacrificed Deck Value appreciation). As I now play for the long-term, the exchange was worth it, your mileage may vary.
Crawling Band
This is a strategy used by a Market Maker to mix the price protection of a Peg with the discretionary spending flexibility of a Float. Multiple Standing Bids are placed at a percentage below the card's Market Value but are structured in such a way to preserve most of the position. This tactic can also be used in combination with a subsequent purchase at a price targeted well above the band to reset the MV to the intended target price. When done correctly, this will allow incoming purchases to be made at a discount, while staggering the MV upward with discretion, increasing the overall return on investment of the Market Maker.
Example: Season 1 Farrakhan (late 2020/early 2021)
In late December, I decided to revalue Farrakhan Season 1 upward to 822 MV (total investment was 8,224.50 Bank, nine 775 Buys, and one 1,249.50 Buy). In the process, I gained six additional copies and deposited four of the 775 buys into a Treasury account labeled FMM1(Farrakhan Market Maker 1) with the intent to pivot into a Crawling Band. I then immediately placed three Standing Bids from FMM1 at 500 Bank (a 48.7% discount to MV, but still among the highest Standing Bids in the entire market).
For several weeks, there were no transactions until a Pull Event, where all three of the 500 SBs were executed, and I followed up mid-auction with three additional purchases from my Farrakhan account at 1,250, 1,253, 1,200, along with a drop sale at 1,257.34 that was deposited back into FMM1. Total investment was 6,961.01 with six additional copies of the card gained, three at a substantial discount, and a substantial increase in Deck Value. My greatest efficiency using the technique was to absorb a 500 Standing Bid and then follow-up in a subsequent auction with two large purchases, 2,499.66 and 2,499.97. This resulted in a gain of three copies (one at a discount), increased my Deck Value over 30k, and allowed me to realize my return goal of taking Farrakhan S1 to double its old all-time high with the targeted 100th copy.
The numbers involved in these transactions are historically high, but the strategies can work for any player, working with any amount of capital. In an auction involving multiple purchases with a trend below your target, place and match the higher bids in a subsequent auction AFTER that auction concludes. This will allow you to input a better-recorded price (or ideally a series of higher prices) as the most recent sequentially and will cause the lower prices to drop from future MV recalculations first.
General advice for players considering the Crawling Band strategy:
i. Determine what percentage of your Total Bank you want to target toward building MV (ie. an account with 1,000 Bank, an investment commitment of 5% would create a price target of 50). Use the Impossible Trinity paradigm to weigh how conservative or aggressive you want to be in the context of your goals as a whole.
ii. Dedicate a Treasury account with Bank that is solely used to hedge the position with Standing Bids set at a discount to current MV. This will impose a sense of fiscal discipline into your campaign, and allow you the flexibility to explore other aspects of the game separately.
iii. After any purchase of a new copy of the card at a discount, use the Bank in your main account to purchase more cards at a premium that will net toward your intended MV target. Cash is king, budget maintaining levels of liquidity.
Free Float
A Free Float is when the Market Value of a Card is allowed to fluctuate without the participation of the Market Maker. This often creates a negative feedback loop of bearish sentiment, because the source of the position's buying support (Standing Bids from the MM) has been withdrawn. Uncertainty builds to the position's legitimacy as a store of future value. Standing Asks will often begin to appear that are priced below MV, and investors will begin cashing out to those Bidding at a discount. The Free Float can lead to a near-term price crash, but with time a new equilibrium will settle things down.
Example: Season 1 Farrakhan (late 2019)
My direct experience with a Free Float stems back from September 2019 to late December 2019. For four months, I took a hiatus from the game, and Season 1 Farrakhan was traded in the market without my placing a Standing Bid. My last purchase price was 47.50. From then on, there were eight independent transactions, ranging from 7.51, 15.01, 17.26, 16, 15.01, 15, 15.75, and 10.32. That is an average sale of 13.98, a 70.57% decline from the last sale with the Standing Bid I had provided. Yet despite the uncertainty, relatively few Owners vacated the position.
Does it make sense to retain or invest in a Card that was once supported by a Market Maker that has been placed into a Free Float? It's a gamble. In the immediate term, there could be strong downward pressure on MV as the fundamentals that drove that price upward has changed. However, if in the future the Market Maker returns with a new campaign, and talent, support, and capital investment rebound into the position, the return for those who purchased at a discount during the Free Float could be extraordinary. There is one player who purchased S1 Farrakhan during the above Free Float period, and later sold during a return campaign for a positive return of 5,063%! A calculated risk that paid off.
Closing Thoughts
This is a great hobby, and playing as a Market Maker has been a rewarding experience. The strategies discussed were fun to plan out and have helped me to achieve various goals that made the game worth playing. The journey (conceptualizing abstract thoughts into a game-plan, developing an infrastructure within a Random Number Generator framework) was much more rewarding than ultimately reaching a destination. While no balloons and confetti drop from the ceiling, I can always look back and smile when logging into NS.
On the flip side, I'm also happy I was able to share the wealth during this last campaign, making other players 'rich' with triple and quadruple-digit purchases:
I also appreciate the loyalty of those owners of my card who chose to buy/farm and hold with greatly enhanced Deck Values, especially those who held the position during the Free Float. I even have a love for my haters, who dream of deflating Farrakhan with an endless stream of .01 Asks. This is a game, it is healthy that people are inspired to compete and I never take it personally.
I hope this read was useful in some way. However long from now that you are reading this, the techniques discussed should remain evergreen in their application. Thank you to those at TNP and the Cards Symposium for the invite. From scripts to community structure, it never ceases to amaze me how many talented and generous people are a part of this great community. Stay safe, have fun, all the best!
Farrakhan
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[small][U][B]The Northern Lights[/B][/U][B]:[/B] [I]Beauty in Truth[/I]
Publisher: McMasterdonia :: Executive Editor: BMWSurfer
[I]The Northern Lights is produced by the Ministry of Communications on behalf of the Government of The North Pacific and is distributed by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs externally and by the Ministry of Home Affairs internally. Except where otherwise indicated, all content represents the views of the Government of The North Pacific.[/I]
[B][URL='https://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=352113']Index of issues[/URL][/align][/B]
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We are aware that not everyone is equally appreciative of image-based NS newspapers. As such, we've included the standard format mostly plain-text version of the newspaper in the spoiler below. We hope you enjoy reading this month's issue! If you have any questions, comments, concerns, or suggestions, feel free to contact the current TNP Minister of Communications [nation]PotatoFarmers[/nation].[/div]
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[font size="4"]Editor’s Note[/font][/div]
[div align=“right”][I]by BMWSurfer, Minister of Communications[/I]
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[div align="center"]Welcome to The Northern Lights.
Recently, The North Pacific hosted a Cards Symposium, a gathering for all members of the cards community. Featured in this edition of The Northern Lights iare five lectures and Q&A sessions with prominent members of the community. We hope you enjoy reading this issue!
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[font size="4"]Note from the Minister of Cards[/font][/div]
[div align=“right”][I]by DGES, Minister of Cards[/I][/div]
[div align="center"]The 2021 Cards Symposium was a large-scale cards festival hosted by The North Pacific during the end of February. Activities relating to this festival were held throughout the span of 1 week, with minigames, guest speakers, and fully-fledged competitions comprising the majority of what took place during the Symposium.
The Symposium marked one of the very first festivals celebrating the cards minigame, with over 110 users attending the event and enjoying it in one way or another. An entire month was spent planning its release, so we hope that this issue of The Northern Lights provides you some perspective on what took place if you weren't there!
Happy reading~[/div]
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[font size="4"]Q&A with Mikeswill[/font]
[font color="#006400"] [b]Mikeswill:[/B][/font] Welcome to the 2021 Card Symposium.
I would first like to give my thanks to The Infinite Hell-Sage Empire of Destructive Government Economic System for inviting me to share my experiences and opinions on this platform. I am truly humbled by the honor. It represents a degree of success in this endeavor based on much effort.
I do not have an agenda to promote. Instead I am willing to share my experiences in the Card realm over these two plus seasons. A brief history:
The initiation of the Card game during the April 1, 2018 limited period found me in an advantageous position given my long history of creating satellite Nations representing different points and interests in my Nation States life. As such I was able to move cards from these satellite Nations to my main resulting in a top 10 finish at the end of the first run.
When the game resumed in earnest I began as a Heister (a nation that undercuts a sell bid to gain profit); a Penny Bidder (a nation that raises buys in penny increments), and an inflator of Legendary cards (I pushed the price of Legendary cards to $10). The first two tactics brought ill-will and retaliation by a group of card players.
After a few combative conversations with Frisbeeteria I was invited to join a card Discord to the chagrin of many. It was via this Discord that I was able to evolve out my initial game-play and into a more community considerate style of play. Nevertheless, I was guilty of numerous antagonistic conversations for a period of time as I slowly evolved as a trader.
I learned about trade dropping – buying low and selling high on a trade. I learned how to protect a bank transfer after numerous times losing profits to heisters. (I used to transfer bank via 0.50 Rare sales). I learned how to create puppets to facilitate greater card/ bank and gain an advantageous position during pull events. And so it goes.
My intention, therefore, is not to present a position but rather to address any questions a Nation may have. Thus the format will be Q & A.
A few ideas for questions: How setting a reasonable goal can make card trading fun....Why Koem Kab is the only trader I completely trust? ... Dropping on Legendary trades: How to drop and why it is OK... How do I maintain my top 5 position without using scripts?
[font color="#000080"] [b]Event Participant [1]:[/B][/font] That last one is interesting. How do you maintain your top 5 position without using scripts?
[font color="#006400"] [b]Mikeswill:[/B][/font]This was a trick question. The answer is unwavering perseverance. I am a bit older than many of the players in NationStates and have had a difficulty understanding the creation and use of scripts or programming or coding or whatever it is called that automates or facilitates a more efficient manner of answering issues and junking cards for bank. So I work harder and longer ... one issue and one junked card at a time.
[font color="#000080"] [b]Event Participant [2]:[/B][/font]What do you mean by Koem Kab being the only trader you trust and why?
[font color="#006400"] [b]Mikeswill:[/B][/font]In the course of relationships it is easy to create expectations only to be let down at some point. In the card game as in most speculative endeavors one seeks consistency and over the 2+ years of play Koem has been the most consistent trader that I have experienced. Moreover, from my experience, he has yet to act upon emotion over logic.
Other players, me included, have exhibited emotion reactions that go against expectation. Usually these are one time occurrences but they are enough to create doubt in future transactions.
Examples: getting heisted by a Nation who for months gave and received the courtesy of non-interference. Purposefully have one’s pull event blocked so as to deny the opportunity to obtain a card by a player who abused the same system many times over.
Players have changed tactics from time to time for whatever reason. I am not going to necessarily judge why an ally all of a sudden decides to interfere with a bank transfer but I will alter my trades in the future to minimize the interference. (I used to get mad and that will be discussed via a different Q & A.
On the other, Koem trades in Legendary cards as I do so we have a common goal: to maintain and grow the value of these cards. I know that in a bidding war he will have 4x my bank so if he decides he wants the card I am not going too far above MV without encouraging him to drop me. He seems to know that if I am bidding on a high priced Legendary I’m going to buy the card and will back off once MV has made. Even though we seldom if ever converse via telegram we seemingly give and take when a series of Legendary cards hit the market at below MV bids.
So I trust him. I trust him because it is always good to trust at least one other player.
[font color="#000080"] [b]Event Participant [2]:[/B][/font]How do you look at your trading style in the past and reflect on it today? What was your process for growth in that way?
[font color="#006400"] [b]Mikeswill:[/B][/font]I am far more confident today than I was in the beginning. I began as a penny bidder and heister trying to win every trade for the sake of winning the trade. When I focused on a goal I was able to pin point the trades I wanted to be involved in. This took a degree of trial and error. Moreover, no one likes a penny bidder especially in the Legendary market. It can bring up antagonistic emotions and communications. So I quit being a penny bidder. I also realized that the market is incredibly large. It isn't necessary for me to try to get every card.
One more thing: If you see me buying a non-Legendary card I am probably moving the card from a pup to my main... that means I can inflate the card as high as I want because the bank is secure.
[font color="#000080"] [b]Event Participant [3]:[/B][/font]What would you say is a good goal to have when beginning as a trader? For this answer, please draw from your own learning experiences and/or mistakes when you were first starting out and explain how it translates to setting a reasonable goal, if you would.
[font color="#006400"] [b]Mikeswill:[/B][/font]When Season 1 began in earnest Legendary cards were the most desired. Although I was in the top 10 in Deck Value, the number of Legendary cards I owned was nowhere near a complete set of 184 cards. Additionally, seven Legendary Nations had ceased to exist since the April 1st rollout making acquisition of those cards far more challenging. And so I set the goal of collecting every Legendary card.
What I found was that I was initially tentative in my trading. I was easily intimidated by players such as Koem Kab and Fris and The Northern Lights who had far more bank and better trade tactics. I can specifically recall needing to get the CTE Legendary Mindless Contempt and knowing that my 200.00 bid – the extent of my bank – would be surpassed before the trade was completed. It can become disheartening when you feel like other traders have the upper hand. And so I changed my goal.
Actually I changed my attitude. I decided that I was not going to allow another Nation intimidate my card play. I got realistic on the amount of bank necessary to successfully consummate whatever trade I wanted to participate in. I decided that I was willing to purchase at 10% above Market Value (sometimes even more) to get the card I desired. I didn’t concern myself with penny bidding in an effort to get the lowest purchase rather I attacked the trade at Market Value. In other words, I got serious about obtaining my goal. And to me that is the ultimate goal, to decide what you want and then go out and get it.
I see so many traders trading to get the best deal and then missing out on the card because they weren’t willing to go the extra 0.25 – the value of a pack. Just yesterday a player bought one of my S1 obscure Epics to beat me out of .01 while another player battled me when all the while they could have spent an extra .02 to get the card.
So to get to the question in more tangible terms: depending on which Region you reside in you might want to start with the goal of collecting every Regional member. I am thinking of collecting both S1 and S2 cards of every WA member in my region. Setting goals which are attainable can bring much satisfaction and in the process develops one’s ability to consummate trades and communicate with card holders in order to persuade them to sell.
[font color="#000080"] [b]Event Participant [4]:[/B][/font]1. Texan here, how long was your power out, lol
2. As someone looking to farm puppets for cards, how many puppets would you say is a good amount while not giving my life to the trade?
[font color="#006400"] [b]Mikeswill:[/B][/font]1. My condo is near a Fire station so I only lost power for about 2 hours
2. I don't know the answer to the optimum number of puppets to have while still maintaining a real life outside NS. I have 345 active puppets. If I knew how to use scripts or whatever that is called I would probably be far more efficient than I am. I am certain that manually going through 345 pups a day takes up a lot of time.
[font color="#000080"] [b]Event Participant [5]:[/B][/font]Hi! As a mere enthusiast to this game I find the collecting satisfying, but the sociology fascinating. Though communicating through telegraphs is the clearest way to convey information, I find most interesting the concept of attempting to communicate through bidding alone. Watching players get scared off by a large jump in bids, frantically scouring their trades to see if a puppet of theirs has another copy, attempting to discourage people from penny bidding by immediately jumping to MV, watching people bid .01 below MV as though that number matters at all.
What have you found to be effective methods of conveying intent to other players while bidding (or asking)? How do you discourage those who seek a "good deal" from taking a card you genuinely want?
[font color="#006400"] [b]Mikeswill:[/B][/font]The Sociology of assessing another player by the way they bid is an awesome study. If I see a player penny bidding I presume that their expectations and confidence levels are low... they probably lack sufficient bank to adequately buy cards they want and are playing a game of hope. A large counter bid will usually dissuade them. If a player tries to heist a bank transfer I find that I can wear them down by penny bidding the clock knowing that I have at least one other bank transfer card copy. (I did this to Momo on a Legendary trade an extended the trade for four hours). One of my projects has me buying up some cards and initially I fought off the other bidders by raising my Buy price to deny them the copy of the card. But in retrospect I am just over paying on a card that by the time I want to take advantage of my ownership position, the other player may cease to exist making their ownership moot. And then I use the old fashioned style of communication: I send a telegram. Be careful with telegrams... there are a lot of angry Nations out there.
[font color="#000080"] [b]Event Participant [5]:[/B][/font]Also, piggybacking off of [Event Participant #2], I assume you trust Koem Kab because their bids are consistent and clear, but do you think their complete monopolistic domination of the legendary market - essentially price fixing the entirety through plurality ownership - is detrimental to the competitive nature of auctions?
My questions are perhaps not technical enough for this Q and A.
[font color="#006400"] [b]Mikeswill:[/B][/font]No. Keep in mind that though Koem owns 11,000 Legendary cards, r3n and I each own over 3,000 apiece. Thus Koem does not have a complete monopolistic domination of the market. Any player has access to the market and is no way curtailed from being successful in the market bank permitted. Whereas I am probably a Democratic Socialists at heart, I have no issue with someone like Koem utilizing his means and talents to arrive at his level of success especially where no one else is denied the same opportunity. I am a perfect example. I have successfully collected every S1 and S2 Legendary without any barriers.
As to the second point - the competitive nature of auctions – Koem has shown far more constraint in maintaining the status quo. The competitive nature of auctions is a myth. Either you have sufficient bank to obtain the card you want or you don’t. The fact that you can pull the desired card removes any barrier to competition. Koem doesn’t arbitrarily inflate Legendary cards (That was Noah in 2020). He simply attempts to maintain the current MV but will aid the inflation of a Legendary on a trade by trade basis as will I.
Now the purposeful inflation of common cards to artificially raise one’s DV as detrimental... :)
[font color="#000080"] [b]Event Participant [5]:[/B][/font]Ahh, my question was worded poorly. I mean that Koem does not have to abide by the same issues of competition that I do when bidding on a legendary. They are able to undercut/drop any player on nearly any legendary; the result being that even obscene deals (such as when 9003 accidentally dropped [Zamri1138] for 2 instead of 20) go to Koem by default, and are frequently uncontested. I can do that with my own card and a few others, but they have domination in this respect to (nearly) the entire legendary market. I find the frenzy of bidding on a good deal to be exciting and fun, but don't bother on legendaries because the end result is known.
[font color="#006400"] [b]Mikeswill:[/B][/font]You might want to ask yourself why are you so consumed with Koem Kab at the detriment of your own personal goal... I am not picking on you alone. I think man has an innate nature to criticize the highly successful and thus legitimize their own self-inflicted victimization. For instance: your complaint about Koem in the Legendary market could easily be applied to me. I have sufficient power and bank in that market to dominate any trade. But because I am #3 in the game I don't get the same negative attention that KK does. I am also amused by the frenzy of greed when someone purposefully or not places a low Ask on a Legendary... it means bank for me because if I get to the card before Koem I will drop you and then the ensuing outrage by the player who got dropped is delightful. Because it is outrage based on emotional greed. Keep that in mind in the future. I have been busy with a project so my involvement in the day to day Legendary market has waned but I will be back soon!
[font color="#000080"] [b]Event Participant [5]:[/B][/font]I think my comments on Koem came off as antagonistic instead of esoteric. I don't mind them as a player at all, I was trying to get your thoughts on how monopolies and oligarchies skew the market and was using my experience as a comparison, not a complaint. I'm not much of a legendary hound, just trying to compare how market forces are asymmetrically applied to different players. Thanks for your answers!
[font color="#006400"] [b]Mikeswill:[/B][/font][Reacts with sunglasses emoji]
[font color="#000080"] [b]Event Participant [6]:[/B][/font]As someone who has been active since the beginning, what is the most enjoyable facet of the card game for you?
I sometimes forget the connection between cards and the nations behind them. Do you place value on cards of players you have a good relationship with? Or are there cards you value due to memorable events (like first Legendary find)?
[font color="#006400"] [b]Mikeswill:[/B][/font]The most enjoyable facet was and is the increased interaction with other game players. Prior to the card game I was basically just keeping my region going as the longest serving WA Delegate in the history of the game (15+ years). Because of the streak I was still active but isolated to my region. I don't participate in the Security Council because I find it either a popularity contest or a travesty to the game mechanics. The General Assembly has gotten incredibly stale as Nations write Resolutions for personal recognition and then Repeal the a week later. (I truly believe that there should be a 6 month wait time before Repeals can be considered). So when the card game arose it gave me the opportunity to branch out far beyond the confines of my nest. I have built relationships with Nations from many Regions reminding me of the joy I had in my first year in the game where players from across the globe engaged. In December I decided to blow past the constraints of Deck Capacity. This has allowed me to increase my collection from < 2,000 to over 15,000 cards giving me the opportunity to collect cards of Nations I have appreciated as players but whose card value might have not fit the prior limitation of deck space.
[font color="#000080"] [b]Event Participant [7]:[/B][/font]What tactics should you be aware of when you try to card flip in Nationstates?
[font color="#006400"] [b]Mikeswill:[/B][/font]I'm not sure what card flipping is. If that is the Buying low and Selling high trade style I am not a participant as it has no long term return for me. I am mostly a collector of Legendary cards. I will drop on any Legendary trade where I can garner a 5.00 profit or more. Now I do see players buying low on my CTE S1 Common transfer cards thinking they are going to get the 4.00 MV price at some point in the future not realizing that every historical trade has been made between me and my pups. It is the same with Buying inflated Commons thinking that because the card is at 200.00 someone is going to Buy at 50.00. This is Fool's Gold... a waste of bank because eventually the card, if traded, will only decrease in value.
[font color="#000080"] [b]Event Participant [1]:[/B][/font] With people obviously hoping a Season 3 comes out this year, what can you do to increase the rarity of your potential future card?
[font color="#006400"] [b]Mikeswill:[/B][/font]I have no idea. I am certain I will never be a Legendary because my activities in this game over 17 years tends to go against the grain of the the elite. I think that writing proposals might help. Maybe write a bunch of inane Security Council resolutions and the Repeal them a week later might get you a higher Rarity. Some folks try to manipulate the acquisition of badges. If that is your choice check out this link: [URL]http://www.mwq.dds.nl/ns/results/[/URL] - I just play the game. I was Commended once and then that was repealed out of spite. Other players have tried to both Commend and Condemn me I guess to help increase my card rarity which I have appreciated.
Oh, and S3 will never happen.
[font color="#000080"] [b]Event Participant [8]:[/B][/font]I've noticed that you have valid concerns regarding whether Season 3 will ever occur, but if we were to be hypothetical and say that Season 3 decided to appear, what do you believe are some of the most important things players should do in order to prepare for the upcoming season?
[font color="#006400"] [b]Mikeswill:[/B][/font]I'm not planning on doing a thing different specifically to plan for Season 3. I know some players have stocked puppets with packs waiting to open them at the time. I don't understand that logic. If S3 is inevitable them S2 cards will become rarer thus why hold onto packs for the future when you can open those packs and replenish them. I am doing something completely separate regarding S2 cards which will mean nothing if S3 doesn't occur. When S3 does begin I will try to get a list of the Legendaries and begin collecting them.
[font color="#000080"] [b]Event Participant [9]:[/B][/font]Oh, one thing I've been meaning to ask you. It's a very little thing but I'm curious. Why did you decide to bid one cent above junk value on all your puppets' cards? I rarely see others do that - whenever I see a 0.06 bid on an uncommon I almost immediately know it's yours :P
[font color="#006400"] [b]Mikeswill:[/B][/font]I want to incentivize the Seller by bidding above junk. I know that in S1 I never sold at junk, instead taking the bank immediately instead of waiting an hour. I have since changed that policy giving someone else the opportunity to raise the Buy price.
[font color="#000080"] [b]Event Participant [9]:[/B][/font]Yeah - I can understand not bidding at JV. As small of an increase over JV as it is, the logic seems to follow from my experience. A lot of people do not honor JV bids.
[font color="#000080"] [b]Event Participant [10]:[/B][/font]Any advice for starter traders who are struggling to earn bank? Further, do you have insight on how to maintain the collection bank balance?
[font color="#006400"] [b]Mikeswill:[/B][/font]One aspect of trading power is a decent Bank and building bank while building a collection is obviously counter-productive. What helped my in S1 was pulling a Farakhan and then selling it at peak which at the time was 800.00. Back then my goal was to never fall to 200.00. This season I have adjusted that figure to 2,000.00 (inflation). In order to do that it takes discipline to stop buying until such time your comfort threshold is met. On that note I am always rather amused when a Nation pulls a Legendary and immediately sells for less than MV. With players like KK and me, said player might get half the bank between his ask and MV. This is a short term satisfaction over long term gratification. Either wait for a MV trade or create interest by having a puppet but at MV.
[font color="#000080"] [b]Event Participant [6]:[/B][/font]With collecting legendaries, do you focus on building your ownership of any particular cards? Like CTEs or high value, or do you have any other landmarks you're working towards?
[font color="#006400"] [b]Mikeswill:[/B][/font]Good question. As I already own every Legendary card I get to pick and choose which cards I will continue to buy. It is almost a guarantee that I will buy any Legendary whose MV is above 50.00. I do like S1 CTE Commons but as I have 5,000 already I'm not buying though I do have a project in the works which will see me move all of those cards to my main. In doing so I could buy extras. I am thinking of collecting every WA Nation in my Region. Since they have each endorsed me I ought to appreciate them more. I seem to be acquiring copies of my pups for future prosperity and am currently moving my S1 Epics to my main. Any card Gio has a 2.00 bid on goes to Utmost Brownies until such time as it is inflated and then gets sent to MikesHope - currently with 20K DV.
[font color="#000080"] [b]Event Participant [6]:[/B][/font]You mentioned how blowing past your deck capacity opened up your deck to larger and more personal collections. Can you talk about your thought process behind making that decision, and perhaps how others should face that decision?
[font color="#006400"] [b]Mikeswill:[/B][/font]It simply made financial sense. I kept to my deck space limit of 2,000 cards into December 2020. Keep in mind I had to pay extensive bank to reach this amount although my starting point from the initial April 1 was extensive. Most serious traders I know had long passed their deck capacities giving them an advantage for growing their DV. What I had to over come was my previous comfort in being able to Gift high bank Legendary cards to my main and how to move future bank to my main. So I observed what other players were doing and gave it a go.
[font color="#000080"] [b]Event Participant [9]:[/B][/font]I realized semi recently that I’m sort of in the same position. My deck capacity is currently 900 and I’ve just started a collection that will assuredly cause me to think twice about expanding it any more. What are some things you’d recommend for those of us who are in the process of making that switch? I suppose, what are the things you observed people doing that made you feel comfortable with making the switch?
[font color="#006400"] [b]Mikeswill:[/B][/font]My greatest challenge was transferring bank as I used 30 CTE cards in rotation. I had to get comfortable transferring large bank (500.00) in small increments (4.00). I watched Gio's inflationary tactics to get comfortable with large bank transfers. Additionally, I had a lot of S1 Commons that I knew would benefit me in the future but I didn't want to put them on the mark. Instead I moved 100 Legs to puppets, Gifted the 100 Commons, and then rebought the Legs - inflated of course. As such, I do my small transfers to MikesHope and Mikes Faith and then my large transfer at a later time. It also meant that I needed to be comfortable with my Bank spread amongst these Nations. All in all it is working out quite nicely.
[font color="#000080"] [b]Event Participant [9]:[/B][/font]That's good to hear. Definitely the piggybacking and transferring large amounts of bank and cards from my storage nations to my main is the part that I'm most hesitant about. I have over 100 copies between the three different cards I use for mass copy transfers, so I'm not really worried about that bit, but the large amounts of bank and stuff about transferring legs is very helpful. Thanks a lot!
[hr]
[font size="4"]Q&A with W&S[/font]
[font color="#006400"] [b]W&S:[/B][/font] Hi everyone and welcome!
Firstly, I’d like to give a huge THANK YOU to DGES for inviting me to speak at this event, and to 9003, McMasterdonia, Noah, and everyone else who was involved in making this possible. It is an incredible honor for me, as such a new trader, to be featured as a guest speaker at an event like this, and I am so incredibly grateful for the opportunity.
In many ways, this talk is going to be a contrasting viewpoint to Mikeswill’s, who spoke before me. We have very different backgrounds and the goal of this talk is both to provide a contrasting point of view and approach, as well as give new traders a chance to ask whatever questions they might have about how to either start out or transition into large-scale farming. While Mike and I have both been around NS since well before cards (though even there he has about a decade’s headstart on me), Mike has been involved in cards since day one, whereas I only picked up the trading card game in November. Mike does not really use scripts; I have been almost completely dependent on them to rise quickly. It is a good contrast, because while we have similar approaches to some aspects of the game, we have achieved our goals in very different ways. Though we oppose each other in other parts of NS, I have tremendous respect for his persistence and dedication and his commitment to honorable and respectful trading.
So what follows is my card origin story:
On November 26, 2020 I had about 5 bank worth of cards. I occasionally opened packs on my main, but I wasn’t really into it. I was playing on the TRR Minecraft server and putting most of my energy into that. The next day, November 27, some who were on the server (Dakota, Sakana, and Jamie among others) mentioned a pull event was going on.
What is a pull event? They didn’t tell me much except to answer issues on as many puppets as fast as I could and open packs.
So, like a total idiot, I joined in. I started furiously answering issues, manually, on all my puppets. And then, like magic (ha), a S1 Aleisyr appeared.
That was all it took. I was addicted to card farming. The feeling of opening legendary cards and getting so much bank for them was just… especially in government-mandated lockdown, it was that rush of serotonin I had so desperately been missing. It was truly an addiction. And even more so, just like in defending, I wanted to go as fast as humanly possible. Within a few days I discovered scripts, and within a couple of weeks I had tripled the size of my puppet army.
I documented my climb up the ladder. I achieved top 50 global in one month and top 20 global in 2 months. Currently I sit at number 18 on the global leaderboard, with a peak rank of #17. It was a torrid ascent up the rankings - 9003 commented recently that he had not seen anyone climb to page one of the rankings so quickly since the early days of cards.
Along the way, I also gained a reputation for two other things: collecting every single Season 2 legendary card within just a few weeks, and refusing to use MV inflation to maintain or gain deck value. Some others have ascended faster than me, only to see their deck value plummet as the cards that were propping them up deflated. Others have managed, through diversification and creativity, to maintain that ranking, but the community should know by now that I’m not a fan of inflated commons either way. But I digress. That is my story and my claim to fame.
But that is quite enough about me.
I just gave that introduction so y’all can know a little about my background and my position as a trader. But one of my biggest goals in this game is to help new traders access the market and cards they might not have the time or means to grind for. So now I want to hear from you! What do you want to know? I want this to be a no-judgment, no-question-is-dumb, new-trader-friendly space where you can ask me anything about how I gained deck value so quickly, what strategies I used in auctions, or what you can do to either start out in card trading, or make the transition from new player to elite trader.
So with that, enough of my ranting and raving. Let the Q&A begin! I will be happy to answer any questions today, tomorrow, up to the end of the event, or even after.
[font color="#000080"] [b]Event Participant [1]:[/B][/font] Would you farm if you were away from your computer and on your phone or another device without your scripts?
[font color="#006400"] [b]W&S:[/B][/font] It would certainly be hard for me to keep my interest or have as many nations as I do now. When I started one of the main reasons I switched to scripts was because I went on a huge dry spell without finding any pull event cards or any legendaries at all in around 400 nations. I was really demotivated by that and I wanted to find a point at which my luck would sort of average out.
Still, I think my perspective has changed somewhat now. When I started I farmed to try and get cards; now I farm to get bank. That I think is something a lot of new players could learn from - and something that might keep me motivated in a world where I didn't have scripts. Farming is best for getting bank, not cards.
[font color="#000080"] [b]Event Participant [2]:[/B][/font] How were you motivated to do cards for that long?
[font color="#006400"] [b]W&S:[/B][/font] I had goals. They were lofty goals, but I was making measurable progress. As long as I was making progress that I could see, I continued to be motivated. Every time I added a S2 legendary to the collection or passed another person in DV, it only fueled my desire to reach higher.
[font color="#000080"] [b]Event Participant [3]:[/B][/font] When you talk about respectful trading, what are some tips you'd give to newer traders so that they don't accidentally (and unintentionally) step on anyone's toes?
[font color="#006400"] [b]W&S:[/B][/font] The main thing is paying attention to who is taking part in the auction and what you know about them. Is it a main and a known puppet of theirs? Do they have a standing, unmatched bid? Is it a collector trying to buy a card that you don't also need for a collection?
In general it is okay to make mistakes and accidentally step on people's toes, and a lot of the big players will understand if a new player doesn't know. Usually you'll know if that's happened when you get a telegram or a discord ping from someone like "hey that's my transfer". :P
As long as you acknowledge the mistake, the no-harm-no-foul rule applies if you correct it and don't make a habit of getting in the same person's way repeatedly.
[font color="#000080"] [b]Event Participant [4]:[/B][/font] How do you find time for cards during the day? Do you go and sit and do all daily card stuff at once? Or split it into few parts? Do you have any tips (other than gold retriever and issue script) to save time during doing cards?
[font color="#006400"] [b]W&S:[/B][/font] It really depends on the day. Some days, especially when I'm not working at my IRL job, I will spend hours at a time just spamming enter for as long as I feel like. But more recently I have found that for the sake of my personal health and well-being, especially as the days get warmer here in Austria, I've been splitting it up, so I'll do however many I want, then go outside or walk or go to the store, then come back and finish whatever card work I was doing that day.
I'll also often combine tasks; like when I'm doing a mass-copy transfer, I'll usually also do some farming to both condense the tasks into the same timeframe while also having a chance to TCALS another copy of the card.
Hotkeys are really helpful. If you don't have 9003's hotkey tool, get it. Pressing F to flip, J to junk etc is way faster than clicking. :P
I also like to place "reminder asks" on low-owner commons or uncommons I think would make good piggyback-transfer cards, so if I find a second copy of it I will see that I own another copy of that card, and then be able to hold onto both copies in the inevitable eventuality that I need to start doing a lot more piggybacking (when I run out of deck space).
[font color="#000080"] [b]Event Participant [4]:[/B][/font] And a bonus question:
Do you open your packs asap or do you collect them and open when you have X amount? What is more satisfying to you? :D
[font color="#006400"] [b]W&S:[/B][/font] I always open packs right away. Saving packs is pointless for me. I get that some people wanna save them for S3, I just don't feel the need to.
[font color="#000080"] [b]Event Participant [5]:[/B][/font] (Who knows if we’re even gonna get a S3 tbh.)
[font color="#000080"] [b]Event Participant [4]:[/B][/font] Oh and didn't mean S3. Rather like - do you prefer to eat one cookie a day or a cake at the weekend? :D
[font color="#006400"] [b]W&S:[/B][/font] Farming is eating the whole cake for me. I need that serotonin immediately. :P
I have so many nations that farming by itself is the cake, lol.
[font color="#000080"] [b]Event Participant [1]:[/B][/font] How's the S1 Legendary Collection going?
[font color="#006400"] [b]W&S:[/B][/font] 55/184. Been on a bit of a hiatus lately. Trying to kick it back into gear soonish. S1 legendaries are HARD O.o
[font color="#000080"] [b]Event Participant [1]:[/B][/font] Meanwhile me at 18..
[font color="#006400"] [b]W&S:[/B][/font] LOL :P yeah I did add another to the collection just now! TUMS sniped one of them because I wasn't looking but I'm ok with not fighting TUMS all the time, lol.
[font color="#000080"] [b]Event Participant [1]:[/B][/font] What's your preferred method of transfer?
[font color="#006400"] [b]W&S:[/B][/font] Mass copy. 100% mass copy is my favorite.
[font color="#000080"] [b]Event Participant [4]:[/B][/font] What is flipping?
[font color="#006400"] [b]W&S:[/B][/font] Flipping has two meanings. Flipping over the cards when you open the pack is what I was talking about.
But flipping also means buying a card for a low price and immediately turning around and listing it for higher.
[font color="#000080"] [b]Event Participant [4]:[/B][/font] Oh, then I'm weird. I open packs, don't flip and keep opening packs until I open all without looking at cards so I have a nice surprise if I get a TEP Card / high MV / Leg ;D
[font color="#006400"] [b]W&S:[/B][/font] Ah, you're like HS then. HS does the same thing.
[font color="#000080"] [b]Event Participant [1]:[/B][/font] How does your timezone affect your pull event availability?
[font color="#006400"] [b]W&S:[/B][/font] For US based pull events it is usually quite good. Most take place in the afternoon in the US, which is evening for me. Perfect. But evening in the US is like 3 A.M. for me usually :P
[font color="#000080"] [b]Event Participant [1]:[/B][/font] If you're in a pull event who has time to look at what you pull? Lol.
[font color="#006400"] [b]W&S:[/B][/font] Me because I need that rush.
[font color="#000080"] [b]Event Participant [4]:[/B][/font] If you could speak to yourself from time when you started doing cards, what advice would you give yourself?
[font color="#006400"] [b]W&S:[/B][/font] Ooooo, that is a good question. The biggest piece of advice would be to not beat myself up over losing out in an auction or going on a long streak without a particular card. On that note, maybe the best answer is that farming is for getting bank, not cards. One of the most demotivating things as I was starting out as a trader was going on long dry streaks without finding a legendary or a card of the type I wanted. On the one hand it made me hungry to make more puppets, but in that quest I may have overextended myself from time to time.
When you farm cards, really you are farming bank to buy the cards you want. Bank is the most important piece of leverage in auctions and the most important thing when it comes to doing what you want to with cards. It does feel good to get that card you want in a pack, but just like IRL TCGs (i was a semi competitive magic the gathering player for a while), it is usually far easier and cheaper to just buy the card. Unless there is a pull event. Pull events are the exception. :P
[font color="#000080"] [b]Event Participant [1]:[/B][/font] How's TSP's card program going?
[font color="#006400"] [b]W&S:[/B][/font] It's good! Got a little slowed down because Vietnam and I were both running for Cabinet, but we are expecting it to kick back into high gear here in the extremely near future. I've put several thousand bank's worth of cards and bank into it, and I'm really excited for what we will be able to offer in terms of programming and rewards for those who join. We've spent a ton of time and energy planning this and I think it will go really well.
(That is also the main reason for the hiatus I mentioned in the answer to your previous question.)
[font color="#000080"] [b]Event Participant [4]:[/B][/font] How do you suggest one should prepare for a pull event? I've never participated in one so any advice is probably cool :D
[font color="#006400"] [b]W&S:[/B][/font] Make sure all your nations have 5 issues and then just answer them! The most important thing is having a full slate of issues, not card packs, because TCALS only works for a very short time after you receive the pack. You need to open it right away in order to have a chance to pull the card at auction.
[font color="#000080"] [b]Event Participant [4]:[/B][/font] Oh interesting. I didn’t know that.
[font color="#000080"] [b]Event Participant [6]:[/B][/font] Do you get your DV from magic?
[font color="#006400"] [b]W&S:[/B][/font] Yes.
[font color="#000080"] [b]Event Participant [6]:[/B][/font] Knew it.
Abra cadabra, summonus Testlandus!
[font color="#000080"] [b]Event Participant [1]:[/B][/font] Testlandia's DV just plummeted 100 bank >>>
[font color="#000080"] [b]Event Participant [4]:[/B][/font] I’ma try that.
Abra cadabra, sommonus Xorietus!
[font color="#006400"] [b]W&S:[/B][/font] Sad she isn’t here :’(
[font color="#000080"] [b]Event Participant [1]:[/B][/font] What do you believe is key to driving regional engagement in cards?
[font color="#006400"] [b]W&S:[/B][/font] Accessibility, approachability, and good incentives for participation. I think that is one of the things that has gotten people to be interested in TSP's org - we've kept our cards planning channel pretty open to people who want to help out, and we've run giveaways and especially pull events already on rare and unique cards that aren't often featured. So it gives people a chance to get something they wouldn't have been able to get otherwise. And that is a really big part of driving interest, I think.
[font color="#000080"] [b]Event Participant [7]:[/B][/font] Who got you into cards?
[font color="#006400"] [b]W&S:[/B][/font] That is a little complicated. Certainly the event that sent me off the deep end was TNP's Aleisyr pull event, which I believe you, Dakota, and Sakana told me I should try. But there is a laundry list of people that were prodding me to try it for a while - you three and HumanSanity were probably the ones that did the most damage though. :P
[font color="#000080"] [b]Event Participant [4]:[/B][/font] HS does cards? o.O
[font color="#006400"] [b]W&S:[/B][/font] "Does cards" is a strong way of phrasing his tendency to lie dormant for weeks at a time until he decides to wake up and pull 6 copies of a card without realizing it in a pull event.
[font color="#000080"] [b]Event Participant [8]:[/B][/font] Other than Legendaries, are there other cards that you're interested in collecting?
[font color="#006400"] [b]W&S:[/B][/font] I will be doing a collection for Founderless in season 3. Otherwise - usually I just collect friends and prominent defenders and gameplayers. And my own Season 1 puppets. A ton of my nations have S1 ex-nation flags. :P
[font color="#000080"] [b]Event Participant [9]:[/B][/font] Considering that the market is only increasing, do you think the barriers of entry (into the market) are also only increasing?
[font color="#006400"] [b]W&S:[/B][/font] Certainly the barriers to gaining ranks quickly are increasing as more traders get interested and the inflation meta is taking over. And Season 1 cards are much harder to come by than they were even a few months ago. But Season 2 cards, especially legendaries, are continuing to balloon in supply, so it is actually getting (IMO) far easier to collect sought-after cards, since supply is only going up for Season 2.
[font color="#000080"] [b]Event Participant [10]:[/B][/font] How to get Testlandia?
[font color="#006400"] [b]W&S:[/B][/font] IDK, just farm more :P - I pulled one today.
[font color="#000080"] [b]Event Participant [10]:[/B][/font] Oh this isn't Card Google, sorry.
[font color="#006400"] [b]W&S:[/B][/font] It’s ok; I’m used to being treated like a search engine :’o
[font color="#000080"] [b]Event Participant [10]:[/B][/font] What do you recommend for players like me who are currently not really farming but want to up their card game?
[font color="#006400"] [b]W&S:[/B][/font] So the main thing before you really get going is ask yourself what you want to do. What are your goals? What sort of cards do you want to collect? Do you just want to focus purely on deck value? Or is there a rarity of card you like? Or a region? Or a flag? These are all questions that can guide you. The thing that really got me going was having concrete and achievable DV, rank, and collection goals. I said OK I want top 500 by X date - got that, now I want top 10 TSP by x date, and I wrote these things down. I still have a note in my phone with all my rank milestone dates.
[font color="#000080"] [b]Event Participant [9]:[/B][/font] How many farms are considered "bare minimum" for someone who is attempting to start farming a decent collection (of say...all nations in a 100+ member UCR)? Or, in your opinion, this minimum doesn't exist?
[font color="#006400"] [b]W&S:[/B][/font] I don’t think there really is a minimum - you can achieve something like that with very few nations. The number of farms you have only affects the speed with which you get the necessary bank and cards, not your ability to collect them.
[font color="#000080"] [b]Event Participant [9]:[/B][/font] So if I can't collect cards like everyday, maybe I could consider having more puppets? (To make up for it?)
[font color="#006400"] [b]W&S:[/B][/font] I mean, that depends on the time you want to dedicate to it. If you want to put a lot of hours into farming every day and collecting cards quickly, absolutely. If you only have a little bit of time, then having 1000 nations to farm every single day probably isn’t feasible.
One of the reasons I was able to go so ham in December and January is because I had an absolutely insane amount of time and not much else to do with it. I couldn’t leave my apartment except to walk along the river and go to the grocery store.
[font color="#000080"] [b]Event Participant [8]:[/B][/font] Having completed the S2 Legendary set, and not being a mass hoarder of the entire rarity, what is your approach to selling duplicate copies received from farming? I understand the "Farrakhan" approach to dump for whatever bids are present contributes to deflation and newbies getting dropped by KK/Mikeswill. Though I've also seen asks below MV sitting for weeks (either unwanted or unknown about). Does a middle-path exist, or what thoughts do you have on selling Legendaries?
[font color="#006400"] [b]W&S:[/B][/font] My approach to selling is that I basically keep all the cards unless I see that someone is looking for one, or I see a reasonable bid. There are only a few legendary cards that I hoard - notably Glen-Rhodes and Pencil Sharpeners 2. otherwise I just keep what i find unless someone is specifically looking for them.
Eventually I will look to increase my market share on a lot more legendary cards, but that is a long way off. I've moved on to collecting Season 1 legendary cards for now.
[font color="#000080"] [b]Event Participant [8]:[/B][/font] Mikeswill has mentioned how blowing past their deck limit has allowed them to gather more cards of their friends. You said you want to collect your friends' cards, do you intend to blow past your deck limit?
[font color="#006400"] [b]W&S:[/B][/font] Basically the only reason I increased my deck limit for a while is because it made it easier to send myself legendary cards and others I liked that I got from farming. I don't anticipate doing that for much longer - I plan to use one of my existing nations as a storage nation for bank, transfer cards, etc, and then start transferring things to my main. I think the magic number will be 1000 cards - once I hit that I will stop increasing my deck limit and just blow past it.
[font color="#000080"] [b]Event Participant [11]:[/B][/font] What would be your advice to any new players that want to collect all legendaries?
[font color="#006400"] [b]W&S:[/B][/font] Great question! First thing is that you need bank and a lot of it. Yes, it's possible to get most of the legendaries by farming, but that takes a lot of time and you can't collect them all that way.
Unfortunately, buying legendaries means dealing with a lot of traders who have a lot more resources than you. Mostly Koem Kab and Mikeswill, but also flippers, MV sharks, and others looking to make money. The most important thing for legendary auctions is to know that you will almost always be at a disadvantage in terms of leverage, and will thus need to know how and when to cut your losses.
My favorite strategy, because I have a strong distaste for long auctions, was to match a below-MV ask, and then whenever KK or someone else with a leverage advantage showed up and overbid me, just bid straight to MV and allow them to drop me there. Thus I would get the card at or near its market value, and they would make a profit from the drop. Everyone gets what they want.
The golden rule is to never, ever, ever bid more than you are willing to buy a card for, and likewise never, ever, ever ask less than you are willing to sell a card for. That is how you lose money.
Still, for some high value CTE cards like Ramaeus, Caelapes, NERVUN, Altmer Dominion, Drasnia, etc., pull events are your best friend. Those cards are extremely expensive because they are well-known players who CTEd, and thus quantities are limited. Finding sellers is hard, and when someone is willing to sell it is often for very high prices.
[font color="#000080"] [b]Event Participant [11]:[/B][/font] You said that the best way is to match a below-MV ask first, then allow people to drop you. What if there isn't an ask below MV? What should people do then?
[font color="#006400"] [b]W&S:[/B][/font] If there isn't an ask below MV, you are often safe from getting dropped. Koem Kab usually does not get involved in auctions going on at or slightly above MV.
If the auction is significantly above MV (say, a Season 1 legendary with an MV of 25 that is being sold for 50), he will often placea bid and ask of his own to inflate the card, but he will not fight or drop you. He is only inflating his own deck value more by creating a second match, so for your sake it's benign.
[font color="#000080"] [b]Event Participant [12]:[/B][/font] [In response to Event Participant #11’s question] Get a friend (or several) with farms that are willing to donate spares to you. ;P
[font color="#006400"] [b]W&S:[/B][/font] Having friends helps a LOT. :P
I got Ramaeus, Altmer Dominion, Nova Hollandia, and several other hard-to-find ones from gifts. And YOU gifted me my Soops. <_<
[font color="#000080"] [b]Event Participant [13]:[/B][/font] For Season 3, do you think we can expect an increase or decrease in legendary cards?
[font color="#006400"] [b]W&S:[/B][/font] That’s a really good question. I think in the short term Season 2 legendaries will go up, but there are so many copies of most of them that I don’t know how far. The thing about the S2 leg market is that there is just so much supply especially compared to S1. I notice this the more and more I try to hunt for season 1 legs - supply simply far outpaces demand in the S2 market.
Still, if the continuous influx of new copies slows, we can at least expect the general deflation to slow as well.
[font color="#000080"] [b]Event Participant [12]:[/B][/font] [In response to Event Participant #13’s question] Do you mean the value of legendaries or the number of them in circulation? Going by previous seasons, they're fixed at 0.1% of all nations at the time of the snapshot, so we'll be seeing ~240 of them for S3 based on the current number of nations.
[font color="#000080"] [b]Event Participant [13]:[/B][/font] Number in circulation; sorry if that was unclear.
[font color="#000080"] [b]Event Participant [12]:[/B][/font] No, your question was clear; I wouldn't have assumed you were talking about value. :P
[font color="#006400"] [b]W&S:[/B][/font] Oh, sorry. I did assume it was the value. I was also extremely tired and had drank about half a bottle of wine that evening. :P
But [Event Participant #12] is right. Both previous seasons had 0.1% of all cards as legendary. So I would expect a significant increase for S3.
[hr]
[font size="4"]Q&A with The Salaxalans[/font]
[font color="#006400"] [b]The Salaxalans:[/B][/font]
**Potatoes and Branding**
*"When you are the potatoes guy everyone is like, 'Yeah, it's the potatoes guy!'" - Max Barry*
Welcome one and all to the Potato portion of the Cards Symposium! Thank you to the North Pacific Card Guild for hosting this Symposium, and thank you to DGES for inviting me to speak on a most important topic. There can never be enough potatoes, after all!
For those of you who don’t know me, I’ve been playing NS since late 2012, with most of my time spent in Spiritus. I was always friendly with people from outside the region, and Spiritus had some minor prominence in assorted NS events. Then, five years ago, the first Secretary-General election occurred. I saw that the event had begun, and had the following sequence of thoughts: “Oh an election! I should run! Hmm… What should my campaign be… Uh… Potatoes!!!” And thus a brand was born. I spent the entire election screaming nonstop about potatoes, narrowly losing in the final round. From this point on, potatoes were a frequent theme for me and by extension Spiritus. Our government now has assorted potato-themed titles, in NS events we usually have a potato-themed name, in the second Secretary-General election I was Kuriko’s running mate and potatoes became featured prominently in the platform, and recently in Spiritus we even held a potato pardon where I drew faces on two potatoes and everyone in Spiritus could vote on which to pardon. The other, unfortunately, was smashed with a hammer.
Of course, potatoes are a silly thing to base an identity on. But that’s exactly why it works: potatoes are simple, kind of funny, easy to grasp. Taking an idea and running with it to the furthest extent possible until you are entirely associated with it, that gives you an identity so that people know who you are even if you’ve never met. Spiritus and I have embraced the potato as a symbol of whimsy and friendliness, infusing our region and interactions with others with those characteristics. It has become a great tool for diplomacy, recently uniting many regions under the banner of the Potato Alliance for N-Day, helping us to forge relationships with regions we previously didn’t know as well, bonding over potatoes and our shared hopes of victory. The yelling and cheering about potatoes rarely let up for the entire 24 hours; such a spudly display had never been seen before! The ultimate culmination of the potato brand was Max Barry talking about it a little bit in an author Q&A livestream several months ago, and soon after sending me a “Special Potato Edition” signed copy of Providence, his newest book. All it takes is screaming about the same food item for several years nonstop!
Now, this is a cards symposium, so I suppose I have to bring this around to cards somehow! As many of you may be aware I have been collecting all potato-related cards. Anything with potato flags, nation names, or quotes, I want them all! Aside from collecting cards from my region and somewhat passively trying to collect staff cards, potatoes are the main goal. Deck value is of no interest to me, I’m just trying to be silly and collect my potatoes! This has resulted in my looking at cards from an entirely different perspective; I only recently started making some more nations so I could farm more effectively, and I have yet to use any scripts. Potato farming is the only goal, something silly and fun that isn’t too stressful. I can hang out with everyone collecting cards, see all the wackiness going on, but not get caught up in any stress from complicated trades or high level deals. It’s quite peaceful, and fascinating to see what goes on not having to worry about anything affecting me! Of course, being an admin in the cards server means I do have to actually know what’s going on, but I’ve tried to carry the whimsical and friendly potato attitude from Spiritus to the NS Cards server as well, keeping it a light-hearted place where everyone can hang out and have fun.
In short, the humble potato went from a meme campaign pledge, to a personal and regional brand, to a mindset and attitude brought to interregional interactions, card collecting, and NS in general. It’s difficult, in NS, to separate Spiritus or myself from potatoes, providing a way for all to know us. Branding is important; taking a simple brand and running with it can lead to great renown or at least, in the case of the potato, bemused bewilderment.
Thank you all for reading, and do not forget: A potato for all!
[font color="#000080"] [b]Event Participant [1]:[/B][/font] What species of potato is your favourite and can you crest a brand name you can utilise to your advantage?
[font color="#006400"] [b]The Salaxalans:[/B][/font] I love all potatoes equally!
And Potato Alliance has been a pretty good brand name so far. :P
[font color="#000080"] [b]Event Participant [2]:[/B][/font] How do you find all potato cards? (What methods do you use to effectively find cards that would probably only been found in packs otherwise?)
[font color="#000080"] [b]Event Participant [3]:[/B][/font] (All potatoes are equal, but some are more equal than others.)
[font color="#006400"] [b]The Salaxalans:[/B][/font] TNP's Card Queries tool has been vital. I did searches for everything I could think of, with obvious things like "potato" or "tater" but also "fries" or "tato", anything that might be referring to potatoes. Recently I realized that a lot of cards relating to fast food restaurants might contain potatoes because there will be fries if the flag shows a meal, so I searched for those as well. In addition I rely on people noticing cards that have a potato only in their flag; there's no way to search for those but periodically people who know I want potatoes will notice one.
[font color="#000080"] [b]Event Participant [4]:[/B][/font] Since we all know your favourite vegetable, what's your least favourite?
[font color="#006400"] [b]The Salaxalans:[/B][/font] Brussels sprouts. >_<
[font color="#000080"] [b]Event Participant [5]:[/B][/font] They're not that bad; eggplants are worse.
[font color="#006400"] [b]The Salaxalans:[/B][/font] Oooh.
Hmmm.
You might be right.
[font color="#000080"] [b]Event Participant [5]:[/B][/font] Fellow eggplant hater! ^_^
[font color="#000080"] [b]Event Participant [6]:[/B][/font] I've always been curious about this one thing. :O
What's your opinion/thoughts/feelings on the mention of your potato card collection in your commendation Morover authored?
(Specifically the following clause: "The collection of a massive amount of artwork commemorating the starchy food, the full assemblage of which is valued at an astronomical price")
[font color="#006400"] [b]The Salaxalans:[/B][/font] I thought it was wonderful. xD
Official recognition of potatoes is a great thing!
[hr]
[font size="4"]Q&A with Atlae[/font]
[font color="#006400"] [b]Atlae:[/B][/font] Hey all. I’m Atlae.
I joined NationStates in February 2016, so it’s been almost five years on this stupid game. Last night, at the behest of friends, I found myself addicted to another card-based minigame, Magic the Gathering. :P - But until I leave cards forever with a huge giveaway I’ll still be in NationStates, The East Pacific, and cards for now. I joined the cards server on March 18 of 2020, probably at the behest of y0, but didn’t start collecting until April. My deck value really took off in May due to the Loop pull event. You may know me as the guy who’s collecting all TEP Cards (S1 is 85% complete, S2 is 93% complete as I’m writing this), or a member of Big Farma, or, for the purpose of this lecture, Deputy Steward of TEAPOT, The Eastern Association of Pacifican Ornamental Traders. I understand that my lecture, how to grow a regional organization, may be a bit strange considering that this Cards Symposium is hosted by the TNP Card Guild, who are doing a great job in many respects and probably know more about building an organization than I do. Nevertheless, I hope this lecture can be of use to you all.
The story about how I got into cards and how TEP got into cards is pretty interesting. It was April 2018, under Queen Yuno’s Delegacy, when cards were introduced. For the months leading up to April, we in the TEP government had been plotting. Finally, on March 18th, “Liberate The East Pacific” was proposed. On March 23rd, the Eastern Loligarchical Order (ELO) was formed, bringing in a whole new era of Francoism. But it was all a silly prank and fooled quite a few people, some of whom are now in power today. It was kind of stressful behind the scenes but it was enjoyable being on the other side of it. We really thought we’d done a better prank than what Max Barry could pull. And frankly, trading cards? That didn’t seem all that interesting, to be honest.
Of course, there were still traders in The East Pacific. Many had holdovers from April 1, but some like VW53aland were actively trading. For a while, Queen Yuno was probably at the top of DV charts in The East Pacific. But cards was never a thing that could unite a community like regional government or R/D could. It’s hard collecting data about this since the DMZ (server under Yuno and Fedele) was archived and I didn’t think to ask to reopen it until this lecture. Maybe I’ll ask and receive more information about the history of cards in The East Pacific, but for the purposes of this lecture let’s assume that cards weren’t really prevalent in The East Pacific until Season 2.
In December of 2019, some nerd named Evrigenis or y0 joined The East Pacific. Like the nerd he is, he got addicted to cards and got his friends to collect them as well. By late February 2020, he had started a “farming operation.” The group chat that would eventually become TEAPOT was formed on March 9th and added people one at a time over the course of a few months. Of course, that time was the pandemic, which probably freed up a lot of time for some people, like me.
y0 probably was the one who created the channel #ns-trading-cards in TEP’s server. That’s where I probably first got into cards. At this point, I had a bunch of leftover R/D puppets that I would farm, and I would choose each option manually (based on the number on the puppet mod number of options). Then I got into scripting, which made my life a lot easier and probably changed my life the most but we can talk about that another day. I shared these with my fellow East Pacifican farmers, albeit with some questionable advice (I mentioned that I put a walkie-talkie on the enter button to hold it down).
In late May, y0 also ran a pull event on the legendary very epic figure of 1 Infinite Loop, widely considered the founder of The East Pacific. Unfortunately, due to blocks (a time before TCALS nerfs when we didn’t know much) we got 2 pulls, one of which was me. That probably jumpstarted me into cards.
A few weeks later in June, we discussed the future of our little card farmers’ group. For the 10th slot in our group chat, we invited Sakana, who was this large figure in cards in TEP that I guess (I was probably intimidated by her and her place in the community lol) Sidenote, but Sakana was one of the reasons I got into cards in the first place. I almost heisted her once during a transfer but she still was nice to me and encouraged me. Thanks Sak!
Anyway, we decided to be our own separate, independent, non-governmental organization. This probably sets TEAPOT apart from many other card organizations because theirs is a ministry or a fully integrated part of the government. It was sort of modeled after TNP’s card guild, but then they made their Ministry of Cards so uh honestly I don’t know if it made a difference or not.
Reading through the old chats, I smile with nostalgia when we decided to choose names. Cards Bureau, Cards Mafia, Cards Agricultural Department… It looks like I suggested the acronym TEAPOT and Sakana filled in the blanks. I’m also proud to say I designed the TEAPOT logo (I also redesigned it this year) but my proposal for the TEAPOT flag was bad and I’m glad it wasn’t approved.
Growing TEAPOT was maybe a little hard first. After gaining legitimacy through a Magisterium resolution, our opus memorandi was to contact some of the traders in TEP to get them to join. Well, mostly people from outside TEP came into join at first, because card organizations!
The first major thing that TEAPOT did was in September, organizing the Tea House of Cards festival with Lazarus and XKI. It was a cards festival not unlike this here Cards Symposium, actually, with pull events, games, and all that. Great minds think alike? :P
After the Tea House of Cards festival, TEAPOT has been holding monthly pull events and will soon start giveaways soon. In almost 9 months, TEAPOT has grown to about 30 people. I don’t know how much people other cards organizations have gotten, but I’d assume we’re doing pretty well. The North Pacific’s Cards Guild has 90 people, but they have had a nice head start and everything. Well deserved too.
It seems that regional card organizations are now really in vogue. While I don’t know everything about each region’s motivations in cards, I would guess that this is due to an increased focus on cards being a community endeavor rather than something a few farmers somewhere can rack up without serving any real purpose to the game. I know that regions like The Pacific, The South Pacific, and The Rejected Realms have created their own cards organizations and hosted pull events as well.
To all the new cards organizations out there (and DavanteAdams, hi!) I encourage you to band together like XKI, Laz, and TEP did earlier. Everyone will start out small, so working together will get you where you need to go in terms of human capital. In addition, you’ll meet all sorts of new people and perspectives and might even boost foreign relations. This may have the downside of cards politicking but unfortunately there’s not much I can do about that.
In addition, I’d suggest reaching out to small farmers starting out in your region. You’re not going to find people just by going down the DV leaderboard. What you need is a community who can eventually grow and find their own niche in trading. A regional telegram works if you want to go the lazy way about this. :stuck_out_tongue:
One thing I would honestly say TEAPOT has struggled with (this is the same with many other cards organizations) is that sometimes, it seems like a group of people that hosts pull events now and again. Pull events are great, of course, but they aren’t everything. Also, anybody with a lot of bank these days can hold a pull event, no regional organization required. Thus, once an organization has its footing, try and diversify. Card giveaways are really trendy now, games like scavenger hunts, etc. Always look for new ideas.
Overall, I think that the space for regional cards organizations is growing. Our good friends in The North Pacific have reigned as the most powerful region in terms of cards for a while, but in a year or a few years this may change. I’m eager to see what new cards organizations will thrive and how this will effect the meta of the trading cards minigame.
Thank you for reading, and I will try and answer any and all questions you may have. It can be about TEAPOT, about me, anything really I guess.
Further reading:
y0 and Gr
[font color="#000080"] [b]Event Participant [1]:[/B][/font] What would you recommend for a fledgling regional card organisation to focus on? (Special consideration to pitfalls that TEAPOT may have fallen in/narrowly avoided.)
[font color="#006400"] [b]Atlae:[/B][/font] The most important thing in my view for a regional organization - of any regional organization really is outreach. One reason why is because it's for the very survival of an organization. At the core an organization is a group of people. Over time this group of people will shrink unless you find a way to increase the amount of people. Thus you have to think long term about what things will get people into the organization. That's where you think of things like pull events and games.
Another reason is because it benefits the cards minigame as a whole. For the most part, adding more people into the game makes it better. You might be annoyed at the MV sharks, but they indisputably made the game more interesting. And if you really hate them, convince them not to when they join your organization.
I realize that I forgot to mention something that TEAPOT struggled with. It's important to have some form of conflict resolution or mediation procedure. Although we did have anti-heist clauses in our charter, we didn't count for people deflating other people's cards to deflate their DV. Now whether that is a thing that needs to be adjudicated is honestly up to the community to decide.
I also regret not doing other events with TEAPOT, since I mostly just held pull events once a month.
[font color="#000080"] [b]Event Participant [2]:[/B][/font] It was mentioned that many of the initial members of TEAPOT were from other regions which helped the organisation grow in the initial period, what other advantages have you seen from the more relaxed membership requirements?
[font color="#006400"] [b]Atlae:[/B][/font] Buffed membership stats. :P
In particular, 9003 and Racoda came into TEAPOT pretty early on. They helped with scripts and other materials like farming guides.
Overall you will probably get like card cosmos in your organization. That's good as long as they actually contribute. Otherwise it gives you a false sense of success when you don't have people from your own region in your org.
[font color="#006400"] [b]Atlae:[/B][/font] ...I'm bored and like to hear myself talk, do you have any questions about me specifically? :P
[font color="#000080"] [b]Event Participant [2]:[/B][/font] What was the motivation behind starting a regional collection?
[font color="#006400"] [b]Atlae:[/B][/font] For a few months I didn't think I'd be able to do it. I probably started because hey, I know some of these people.
I think Vylixan had something to do with it; seemed like a cool thing to do and I had a lot of new time on my hands with COVID.
[font color="#000080"] [b]Event Participant [3]:[/B][/font] How did you choose the nation name ‘The Atlae Isles’?
[font color="#006400"] [b]Atlae:[/B][/font] It was a long time ago. It's hard to think of names.
I wanted to go "Atlantis", but of course that didn't exist.
[font color="#000080"] [b]Event Participant [3]:[/B][/font] Cards question now - Other than TEP S3 - do you have any particular one goal in mind for when S3 hits?
[font color="#006400"] [b]Atlae:[/B][/font] Well I plan on collecting mottoes too.
Probably stockpiling specific cards to use as mass transfers and hoard legendaries.
[font color="#000080"] [b]Event Participant [4]:[/B][/font] Atlae, for S3 I should give you my card and you should treasure it like gold!
[font color="#006400"] [b]Atlae:[/B][/font] How much will it cost?
[font color="#000080"] [b]Event Participant [4]:[/B][/font] F r e e.
[font color="#006400"] [b]Atlae:[/B][/font] The card will be worth 0.00?
[font color="#000080"] [b]Event Participant [4]:[/B][/font] Ohhh. I thought you meant how much will it cost you lol.
[font color="#000080"] [b]Event Participant [3]:[/B][/font] So, since you like questions about yourself, have you always been a legend of Zelda fan?
[font color="#006400"] [b]Atlae:[/B][/font] Well I really got into it in 9th grade.
So like 4 years ago.
[font color="#000080"] [b]Event Participant [3]:[/B][/font] Do you have any Zelda themed puppet sets?
[font color="#006400"] [b]Atlae:[/B][/font] Check Atlae-1 to Atlae-200.
Mipha, Champion Daruk, Champion Revali, Lady Urbosa are all Zelda themed.
[font color="#000080"] [b]Event Participant [3]:[/B][/font] :D
Thanks for answering. ^_^
[font color="#006400"] [b]Atlae:[/B][/font] Np!
[font color="#000080"] [b]Event Participant [5]:[/B][/font] Is it possible to create a bank in Nationstates?
[font color="#000080"] [b]Event Participant [6]:[/B][/font] Only by junking or selling cards.
[font color="#000080"] [b]Event Participant [5]:[/B][/font] Ah.
[font color="#000080"] [b]Event Participant [6]:[/B][/font] No way will there be an option to buy any.
[font color="#000080"] [b]Event Participant [5]:[/B][/font] Would it be worth it?
[font color="#000080"] [b]Event Participant [6]:[/B][/font] No, it'd just become a pay to win on the card market.
[font color="#000080"] [b]Event Participant [7]:[/B][/font] Agreed.
[font color="#000080"] [b]Event Participant [5]:[/B][/font] I meant a bank set up by private players.
[font color="#000080"] [b]Event Participant [6]:[/B][/font] How would that even work?
[font color="#006400"] [b]Atlae:[/B][/font] [In response to Event Participant #5’s question] Probably. I don't know enough about banks but theoretically people could.
[font color="#000080"] [b]Event Participant [3]:[/B][/font] What is next for you in NS, generally?
[font color="#006400"] [b]Atlae:[/B][/font] Couping TRR
Idk really.
[font color="#000080"] [b]Event Participant [3]:[/B][/font] “Time to junk those TEP cards you have bids on.”
[font color="#006400"] [b]Atlae:[/B][/font] Nuuu.
[hr]
[font size="4"]Farrakhan's Lecture[/font]
"But one man's rubbish may be another's treasure, and what is the standard of value in such a pursuit as this?"
-Hector Urquhart 'Popular Tales of the West Highlands''
As-Salaam Alaikum
One of the great things about the NS Card Trading Mini-Game is its open-ended nature. Players can engage as often or as little as they like, choose their own goals, and find their levels of satisfaction. My chosen style focuses on making a market for my card and managing the challenges that come with it. Back in 2019, I played for the short-term, intending to land the Top Deck Value before the end of the year. In four months, I managed the Farrakhan Season 1 card to around 500 MV, with purchases at a peak ranging between 400-800 Bank, eventually reaching my goal. For those interested, you can read more about the details of my earlier system in-The Monthly Snapshot - Issue 2 (Trader of the Month/Interview).
When I decided to return to active play last Summer with a new campaign, my goal was to rejuvenate the Farrakhan Season 1 card, reach 100 total copies, outperform the Legendary cards whose MV I had previously failed to displace, and score the top MV among all actively traded cards in the game (not including expired transfer cards). It took several months but on the day of this review (1/30/2021), I finally reached my magic number of 100 copies, and have peaked at an MV of 1,126, completing my goal!
In this write-up, I will offer my thoughts on the ways a player can operate as a Market Maker for their card, discuss some of the challenges that are inherent within the structure of the game, share my experiences using certain strategies, and discuss different metrics players can use to evaluate a Market Maker managed Card as a potential store of value.
The Impossible Trinity
The challenges inherent in making a market for a Card, are similar to that of managing a currency in the FOREX market. Commitment to certain actions will limit the potentiality of others. Every moment of the game, NS players face three conflicting options:
Maintain Bank with full liquidity
Provide Undivided Support for a Position
Retain Flexibility to Support Multiple Positions simultaneously
By definition, focus on any one element will nullify the ability to carry out the other two options. For example, Leg 1 of the triangle (retaining a fully liquid Bank) will prevent a player from placing Standing Bids and/or stepping into a live auction. Leg 2 (Making a Market) inhibits taking on additional outside positions and makes bank capital less liquid. Leg 3 (flexibility to pursue multiple positions) weakens the potential to act as a Market Maker and commits liquid Bank into the market. No player can escape the Impossible Trinity, we can only set goals and manage with-in the framework. Failure to effectively balance and navigate the limitations imposed by this trilemma will often lead to severe consequences: Bank Insolvency, Crashes in Market Value, Boom/Bust Cycles in Total Deck Value, inability to fulfill collection needs, etc. Player beware.
From the standpoint of my experiences playing as a Market Maker, the main trade-off has come from Leg 3 (flexibility/diversity in building a collection). With a focus on using Capital Formation to fund Bank, I willingly sacrificed appreciation of the artistic aspects of the game, using Card Farming to liquidate positions for future investment. At times, I have focused nearly exclusively on Leg 1, which delayed the fulfillment of goals that could only be brought about through Leg 2 (ie. realizing maximum Deck Value, actualizing near-term Farrakhan S1/S2 MV potential). I have used a Reserve Bank( Gold Crescent Alistan)to build a second Market Maker position in Farrakhan S2, and a Treasury( FMM1)to help manage Farrakhan S1, but elements of Leg 3 don't stretch far beyond that in my system. Keep these types of trade-offs in mind when measuring if my methods would align with what makes the game enjoyable for you.
Advice For Beginners Acting As A Market Maker
Whether you are a long-time player, an experienced player who recently had their card generated for the first time, or are completely new to the game, developing the value of your card can be a great experience. Below are some tips which may prove helpful:
*Determine the percentage of Total Bank you are willing to commit toward acquiring copies, repeating Standing Bids, and/or enacting Direct Market purchases (buying from your own account) toward your position. The larger the percentage invested, the more aggressive your approach, the greater your potential return. The trade-off is that your degree of investment will come at the expense of other aspects of the game (ie. Impossible Trinity).
*Set a target for how much cash flow you will need weekly to reach your goals. For example, if you can generate 10 Bank a week, and you are willing to budget half toward acting as a Market Maker, that's 20 Bank a month, 240 Bank a year. Measure that against your card's potential appreciation over its Junk Value. With consistency, the compounded effect can be great over time.
*Capital formationis the lifeblood of effective Market Making. To be successful as a Market Maker, a player must be prepared to provide a strong and consistent stream of cash flow into their Bank. Time is always of the essence. Active purchases need to be made, positions need to be supported with Standing Bids, and a reserve needs to be plentiful and liquid to prevent retrenchment. Below is a break-down of the Top 250 cards with-in each rarity tier, which shows where the most lucrative bids can be found:
As the chart above shows, the cards that carry the most double and triple-digit Standing Bids are in the Legendary market. Having owned and sold every Legendary card that has been produced at some point, my experience has been that even those Legendary cards with single-digit Standing Bids, listed at deep discounts to their MV (and in rare cases at discounts to their JV) have consistently outperformed the return on almost all other rarities when placed into Auction. If your goal is to build Bank, this is where the money is.
*Reserve Banks & Treasury Accounts: In line with the challenges imposed by the Impossible Trinity, a Market Maker will need to find a way to mitigate saving and investing needs. I have found it helpful to dedicate separate accounts to this purpose. My Reserve Bank (Gold Crescent Alistan) exists to buy new positions of Farrakhan Season 2 with recurring Standing Bids (set at a Hard Peg) as well as handle general tasks (ie. fund undercapitalized puppets during card farming process). My Treasury account (FMM1) is structured as a pure Put against Farrakhan Season 1 and places recurring Standing Bids at a deep discount to MV (set at a Crawling Band). While the Reserve is purposely active, the Treasury is purposely passive. In both cases, I find it helpful to deposit sums into each account that are large enough (either through direct transfers or sustained farming campaigns) that the capital committed will last for a long time. The set it and forget it approach allows for both fiscal discipline and psychological freedom (knowing there is a backstop in place).
*Heisting: Going through the process of Card Farming, countless opportunities will abound to interfere with other players transferring Bank through the auction process. Placing a low Ask on a newly obtained card pulled via TCALS can reap large amounts of Bank in minimal time. While often easy money, I choose to abstain. People of all ages and experience levels engage in this hobby purely for enjoyment, and I take no pleasure in exploiting their moments of vulnerability. These heisting opportunities happen so frequently that I established a dedicated account to store these cards when pulled: FGWF(Farrakhan Good Will Foundation). If in time these cards develop attractive MV, I will add them to my wealth account. If a player contacts me and requests the card for strategic use, I usually just gift it to them. I find this approach to be more rewarding than taking Bank. Feel free to choose your own adventure.
*Developmental Stage: As your return on expense is most advantageous at the beginning of the Market-Making process (ie. when velocity is high, card supply is robust, and before your MV has shown much appreciation above JV), it is to your benefit to obtain copies for as low a price as possible, for as long as possible. With time, your ability to purchase at a slight premium to junk value will end, as other players will come to see your card as being a store of value. Players will then begin to either charge you at a premium above MV, or begin to hold your card for longer periods for appreciation or future intended sales. Over time, this can generate an expensive feedback loop. Try to resist the urge to realize true price potential too quickly while the supply of copies is plentiful, as doing so will come at the expense of raising your costs long before necessary.
*Law of Diminishing Returns: At a constant rate of investment, the percentage gains from building your card will decrease over time. The only way to change the math is to increase the amount of capital you are committing to your position. For example: if you build the MV of an Epic card from 5 to 10, you will reap a 100% return. Taking that same card from 10 to 15 will only reap a 50% gain from the same amount of time and capital being invested. This downward trend will only continue to accelerate without a change in the financing structure. Options include: i. increasing the base amount of savings into your Bank while still investing at the same percentage, ii. investing at a more aggressive percentage of Bank without a change in your base savings, or iii. increasing your base savings while also increasing the percentage rate of Bank investment.
*An Average Calculatorcan be used to plan out the effects of future transactions on your card's MV. It takes five sales to generate an effect, and beyond that, the average of your last 10 sales will be scored.
*Sequence of Order Execution: When the system calculates a card's MV, the initial sale will be scored as most recent, but when there are multiple transactions with various prices with-in a sale, the ordering of the other positions will prove haphazard (often with the lowest as scoring most recent). For this reason, it is to your advantage to initiate higher-priced transactions after a multi-sale auction concludes, as opposed to placing them in real-time during this type of auction. Example: You are buying your card from two players for 10, a new seller drops their ask for one of the Bids to 9. Wait until AFTER the auction ends to buy out the remaining higher Ask so it will be guaranteed to place as the most recent sale sequentially. This will benefit your card's MV calculation for a longer time.
*Counteracting Short Sales: Dealing with market hazards is the responsibility of any Market Maker. At times, players will choose to sell below your Standing Bid, which can reset your MV downward in the near-term. While this can appear disadvantageous at the outset, if you invest into your position at a constant rate, steep discounts can prove highly beneficial, lowering your overall cost basis, increasing your rate of return, and allowing for greater profit over time than there otherwise would be. This is one of the reasons why publicly traded companies will willingly enact stock splits. If this happens to your position, simply place a Direct Purchase (or series of purchases) above the intended original Bid price to even out the difference. For example, a Standing Bid of 5 is matched to an Ask of .01. The trade will settle at 2.5. In a subsequent transaction after that Auction ends, proactively sell the card to yourself from another account at 10 (target price of 5 (2)) and the algorithm will even out the MV back to your target price. If you are capital constrained, you can accomplish the same goal with a series of staggered purchases that trend upward at an affordable rate as savings recover over time.
*Saturation Points: In line with the challenges imposed by the Law of Diminishing Returns, a mature position can reach a point where it is Priced to Perfection, as very few owners outside of the Market Maker wish to transact. This can occur as new supplies of the card dry up, while existing copies offer owners a store of value that is decidedly more attractive than alternative cards on the market. A victim ts own success, very few 'better cards' exist within the marketplace for which owners want to sell to raise Bank, even with the incentive of extraordinarily high Standing Bids. At that point, it may be to the advantage of a Market Maker to encourage actions that will temporarily bring MV down (ie. Free Floating the position, coordinating Pull Events). While this may seem counter-intuitive, when a Market Maker is at a Saturation Point, a short-term retrenchment can reset conditions for a new campaign, with even greater future returns than can be found under the status-quo.
*Over-Extension: real-time market conditions may cause a Market Maker to spend more of their Bank capital than their liquidity levels can comfortably support. When this happens, the number of repeat Standing Bids that can be placed at MV decreases, a red flag for Owners who view the card as a store of value. Options for the Market Maker include i. Increasing base savings, ii. Decreasing the number of repeat Standing Bids, iii. Lowering the Bank amount placed behind the position to some percentage below current MV. Over-extension marks a period where retrenchment becomes more likely until savings are replenished
*Bank Insolvency: a far more severe and bearish condition than over-extension, a Market Maker's savings can become thoroughly exhausted to a point where Standing Bids can no longer be placed anywhere near MV, possibly not at all. Operations may or may not cease, as clear gaps become visible in both the time between new Standing Bids and the Bank amounts being placed in support behind them. A sale matched at a discount to MV may take a significant period to recover (possibly never) and it becomes likely that the card will trend toward a lower base, creating a negative feedback loop. Unless and until Bank savings are recapitalized, options for the Market Maker include i. Free-floating (allowing the card to trade for some time with either a token Standing Bid or without any Standing Bid at all) or ii. Total Capitulation (walking away from the position entirely). With time, a Market Maker can recover from Bank insolvency, but it is not guaranteed
*Managed Decline: if a Market Maker is planning to make a change to their system that is likely to decelerate operations (ie. less card farming, committing bank to alternate positions, playing the game less entirely) there are protective steps that can be taken to minimize damage to the card's MV. Options include i. placing a stream of deeply discounted Standing Bids to publicly set a known floor, ii. performing Open Market operations (buying from your account) at the discounted MV to re-establish some form of price support, and iii. making occasional Direct Market purchases when Standing Asks are listed at affordable prices. A Managed Decline marks a bearish period for the position, and while it can seem depressing, the power to one day reverse this condition always remains within the hands of the Market Maker.
*Taking Time-Off: Eventually, your level of motivation will decrease. Maybe you will achieve your overall MV and DV goals, and the game will become a less enjoyable pursuit. Or perhaps something in 'real-life' will take priority over your free time. Don't be afraid or feel guilty about your card losing value in the interim of your direct support. In the real world, even the best of publicly traded companies have experienced bad quarters with intervals when their MV trended downward. Periods of decline build a sense of character into the history of your performance as a whole. Personally, I prefer to play in stints, with a goal in mind that's tied to some form of end trigger. My first goal was a time limit to achieve Top Deck Value. I then took a break, only later to return with the new 100 copies challenge. I find that creating hard deadlines and knowing there is a finish line ahead, makes things more fun. At the end of the day, all a Market Maker ever needs to input a price that trends upward are copies of the card, capital to invest, and the talent/willingness to spend time playing. If the latter isn't there, you can always return and recover using the tools of the former when the stars align again.
Metrics To Access The Value of Market Maker Run Cards
*Amount of realized profit the Market Maker has produced for other players through direct purchases of the card
Total Return on Investment the Market Maker generates for other players who hold the card as a store of value
Total sales volume the Market Maker generates relative to other cards
Amount of Liquid Bank the Market Maker has committed to supporting the card
#, recency and amount of alternate Bids the Market Maker has placed into other positions
# of copies the Market Maker owns
# of trades behind the position
Recency of time between transactions
Four measures of Intrinsic Value (i. Junk Value, ii. Highest Standing Bid, iii. Projected MV after the sale at Highest Standing Bid, and iv. Projected MV after purchase at lowest Standing Ask)
Velocity (frequency of Find History)
Likelihood of Pull Event target/capacity to withstand
Likelihood of Short Target/capacity to withstand
Number/Diversity/Recency of Standing Bids
Standing Bids relative to Market Value
Standing Bids relative to Peers
Ways To Protect A Position
Hard Peg
Two factors to take into account when evaluating the strength of any given price peg are i. Standing Bid to Current Market Value and ii. Standing Bid to Junk Value. A Hard Peg involves placing a Put (Standing Bid) either at, very near, or above the current Market Value. This encourages sales to transact very close to MV. A Hard Peg is the most aggressive form of price support, creating a high incentive for players to sell directly to the Bidder, and requires the highest commitment of real-time Bank support to maintain continuously. When acting as a Market Maker, you can use the Impossible Trinity paradigm to structure the degree to which such an approach is feasible toward your overall goals, balancing Bank solvency, with liquidity to engage other positions.
Example: Season 2 Farrakhan (entirety)
When Season 2 began, I prioritized building a position using a Hard Peg at a Premium to Junk Value with the purchase price as low as the market would allow. In review, Farrakhan S2 has never traded below .58 (a slight premium to JV) and began trading six times JV (independent of my purchases) within its first three sales. For several weeks, I was able to build a position from other owners with a Hard Peg of 5 Bank (10 times JV of an Epic .5). With time, the Market Value would rise in line with the Hard Peg, which would lead owners to Ask at prices at a premium to MV (the premium over JV eventually ceased to be an attractive enough metric to entice sales).
Another factor that bids up a Hard Peg as Market Value rises is a Card's growing appeal as a future store of value. Meaning the development of a belief that future value will become greater than the present value of a sale at the current Standing Bid. A growing number of owners will begin to either ask for much higher prices (ie. 1,000, 10,000) and/or hold the position outright with no interest in selling, while other players begin to place standing competitive Bids for the card of their own.
To maintain a dominant position, a Market Maker must be prepared to deploy more capital (ie. multiple Bids at higher prices than other players are willing to pay) to Crowd Out other buyers. In my case, multiple Standing Bids of 6 slowly grew to 10, 15, 20, 25, 30, 35, 38. Standalone purchases would run as high as 50. Eventually, an equilibrium price would be found where many players would sell, while very few players would attempt to bid. Keep in mind, while you may have the funds to win every auction, there are times when doing so will be a Pyrrhic victory, as the process of winning a bidding war will raise your MV and your future purchasing costs. An additional background factor is that of time. With the conversion into a new season, the market of the future will no longer organically generate the card at the same rate it currently does, raising potential Market Value through scarcity.
In retrospect, a Hard Peg (at a premium to JV, and later at/near MV) was very successful in allowing me to build a large position in my card (at the time of this write-up, 110 copies). The trade-off was that I had to deploy a great deal of capital consistently, budget liquidity for an extended period, and artificially keep down the potential market value (which also sacrificed Deck Value appreciation). As I now play for the long-term, the exchange was worth it, your mileage may vary.
Crawling Band
This is a strategy used by a Market Maker to mix the price protection of a Peg with the discretionary spending flexibility of a Float. Multiple Standing Bids are placed at a percentage below the card's Market Value but are structured in such a way to preserve most of the position. This tactic can also be used in combination with a subsequent purchase at a price targeted well above the band to reset the MV to the intended target price. When done correctly, this will allow incoming purchases to be made at a discount, while staggering the MV upward with discretion, increasing the overall return on investment of the Market Maker.
Example: Season 1 Farrakhan (late 2020/early 2021)
In late December, I decided to revalue Farrakhan Season 1 upward to 822 MV (total investment was 8,224.50 Bank, nine 775 Buys, and one 1,249.50 Buy). In the process, I gained six additional copies and deposited four of the 775 buys into a Treasury account labeled FMM1(Farrakhan Market Maker 1) with the intent to pivot into a Crawling Band. I then immediately placed three Standing Bids from FMM1 at 500 Bank (a 48.7% discount to MV, but still among the highest Standing Bids in the entire market).
For several weeks, there were no transactions until a Pull Event, where all three of the 500 SBs were executed, and I followed up mid-auction with three additional purchases from my Farrakhan account at 1,250, 1,253, 1,200, along with a drop sale at 1,257.34 that was deposited back into FMM1. Total investment was 6,961.01 with six additional copies of the card gained, three at a substantial discount, and a substantial increase in Deck Value. My greatest efficiency using the technique was to absorb a 500 Standing Bid and then follow-up in a subsequent auction with two large purchases, 2,499.66 and 2,499.97. This resulted in a gain of three copies (one at a discount), increased my Deck Value over 30k, and allowed me to realize my return goal of taking Farrakhan S1 to double its old all-time high with the targeted 100th copy.
The numbers involved in these transactions are historically high, but the strategies can work for any player, working with any amount of capital. In an auction involving multiple purchases with a trend below your target, place and match the higher bids in a subsequent auction AFTER that auction concludes. This will allow you to input a better-recorded price (or ideally a series of higher prices) as the most recent sequentially and will cause the lower prices to drop from future MV recalculations first.
General advice for players considering the Crawling Band strategy:
i. Determine what percentage of your Total Bank you want to target toward building MV (ie. an account with 1,000 Bank, an investment commitment of 5% would create a price target of 50). Use the Impossible Trinity paradigm to weigh how conservative or aggressive you want to be in the context of your goals as a whole.
ii. Dedicate a Treasury account with Bank that is solely used to hedge the position with Standing Bids set at a discount to current MV. This will impose a sense of fiscal discipline into your campaign, and allow you the flexibility to explore other aspects of the game separately.
iii. After any purchase of a new copy of the card at a discount, use the Bank in your main account to purchase more cards at a premium that will net toward your intended MV target. Cash is king, budget maintaining levels of liquidity.
Free Float
A Free Float is when the Market Value of a Card is allowed to fluctuate without the participation of the Market Maker. This often creates a negative feedback loop of bearish sentiment, because the source of the position's buying support (Standing Bids from the MM) has been withdrawn. Uncertainty builds to the position's legitimacy as a store of future value. Standing Asks will often begin to appear that are priced below MV, and investors will begin cashing out to those Bidding at a discount. The Free Float can lead to a near-term price crash, but with time a new equilibrium will settle things down.
Example: Season 1 Farrakhan (late 2019)
My direct experience with a Free Float stems back from September 2019 to late December 2019. For four months, I took a hiatus from the game, and Season 1 Farrakhan was traded in the market without my placing a Standing Bid. My last purchase price was 47.50. From then on, there were eight independent transactions, ranging from 7.51, 15.01, 17.26, 16, 15.01, 15, 15.75, and 10.32. That is an average sale of 13.98, a 70.57% decline from the last sale with the Standing Bid I had provided. Yet despite the uncertainty, relatively few Owners vacated the position.
Does it make sense to retain or invest in a Card that was once supported by a Market Maker that has been placed into a Free Float? It's a gamble. In the immediate term, there could be strong downward pressure on MV as the fundamentals that drove that price upward has changed. However, if in the future the Market Maker returns with a new campaign, and talent, support, and capital investment rebound into the position, the return for those who purchased at a discount during the Free Float could be extraordinary. There is one player who purchased S1 Farrakhan during the above Free Float period, and later sold during a return campaign for a positive return of 5,063%! A calculated risk that paid off.
Closing Thoughts
This is a great hobby, and playing as a Market Maker has been a rewarding experience. The strategies discussed were fun to plan out and have helped me to achieve various goals that made the game worth playing. The journey (conceptualizing abstract thoughts into a game-plan, developing an infrastructure within a Random Number Generator framework) was much more rewarding than ultimately reaching a destination. While no balloons and confetti drop from the ceiling, I can always look back and smile when logging into NS.
On the flip side, I'm also happy I was able to share the wealth during this last campaign, making other players 'rich' with triple and quadruple-digit purchases:
I also appreciate the loyalty of those owners of my card who chose to buy/farm and hold with greatly enhanced Deck Values, especially those who held the position during the Free Float. I even have a love for my haters, who dream of deflating Farrakhan with an endless stream of .01 Asks. This is a game, it is healthy that people are inspired to compete and I never take it personally.
I hope this read was useful in some way. However long from now that you are reading this, the techniques discussed should remain evergreen in their application. Thank you to those at TNP and the Cards Symposium for the invite. From scripts to community structure, it never ceases to amaze me how many talented and generous people are a part of this great community. Stay safe, have fun, all the best!
Farrakhan
[hr]
[small][U"] [b]The Northern Lights[/B][/U"] [b]:[/B] [I]Beauty in Truth[/I]
Publisher: McMasterdonia :: Executive Editor: BMWSurfer
[I]The Northern Lights is produced by the Ministry of Communications on behalf of the Government of The North Pacific and is distributed by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs externally and by the Ministry of Home Affairs internally. Except where otherwise indicated, all content represents the views of the Government of The North Pacific.[/I]
[B][URL='https://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=352113']Index of issues[/URL][/align][/B]
[/small][/spoiler]
Code:
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