Rocketdog's Security Council Application

[Rocketdog]

The Security Council rejected by application by 6-5, with the reasoning being:

The Security Council has no doubt about Rocketdog's commitment to the region and considers him unquestionably trustworthy in that regard. However, in the 6 months, since he previously applied, he has not shown a consistently elevated level of involvement in the region. As before, when Rocketdog is able to demonstrate a consistent level of activity in regional affairs, the council as a whole would be more comfortable in supporting this nomination.

I am leaning likely towards a vote but obviously would like to hear opinions from the SC Councillors as well as everyone else. I would definitely like to know what the Security Council defines as consistent activity.

To respond to the statment, I believe I am consistently involved in the region. I generally check discord and the RMB every day and at max every second day. I may not always post, especially during the peak activity time but I guarantee that I am there. In regards to forum activity, I do check it less, maybe every third day, just because there is substantial business on the forums for me to do currently.

 

[Dreadton]

Disclaimer: I'm posting as a citizen, not as the Vice Delegate and not on behalf of the Security council.

You are a Game Side Advocate, you say you check the board. How often do you talk to the people on it?
You are in HA, how many rows have you done?
What other positions have you had, and what did you do in them? Not what the job description is, but what you completed in that role?

My issue is, and this is why I would not support overriding the Security Council even though the vote was close, is that you have positions but I cannot think of what you have done in them. The Security Council does not need a warm body, it needs active partcipation. Look at this term, We have a first time Vice Delegate. The Security Council was an active participant in getting him up to speed on the task and their input was necessary. We rejected three applications this term. We cant have someone who will just go with the majority or just be present for votes. We need someone who will actively contribute to the discussion.

 

[Venicea]

It seems Rocketdog hasn't posted much on the forum since 2019 but Xagill has 25 pages of posts on the RMB only this year, which is more than many current members of the SC have in their entire history. Xagill has collected and maintained more than 500 endorsements since January and an influence above 182500 since the end of March. They are a long standing member of this region and are considered trustworthy. What else does a nation need to do to qualify? If consistent activity is what matters, can you give us an approximate number of hours to devote each day, each month to be considered active?
There are many ways to be involved in the game. What type of activity and on which platforms ( Rmb, forum, etc.) is taken into consideration when a judgment is made on a nation's involvement in regional affairs?

 

[Owenstacey]

I have to agree with Dreadton. Whilst it cannot be argued that Rocketdog has been active on the RMB, that type of activity is not enough to earn you a place on the Security Council in my opinion. Rocketdog has been in positions within the region this term but they have not done enough with them to be considered for a place on the security council for me. The Security Council needs members that are proactive in the community, doing things and finding things to do to help the community, not just reactive to things that are going on. I don't want people on the Security Council to just lurk on the forum, I want them to be actively taking part in projects and trying to get their name out there for people to see them.

 

[Venicea]

As a citizen I am rather worried about the lack of a strong presence of the SC on the RMB, except for Nessuno. Wouldn't a another Gameside Advocate strengthen the SC in this area?

 

[Dreadton]

As a citizen I am rather worried about the lack of a strong presence of the SC on the RMB, except for Nessuno. Wouldn't a another Gameside Advocate strengthen the SC in this area?

There is no guarantee that he would remain a GA under the next delegate.

 

[Sil Dorsett]

There is no guarantee that he would remain a GA under the next delegate.

Having someone in the SC with GA experience and a strong RMB presence regardless of current GA status is still going to be noticeable. I admit that I didn't even think of that when I voted against the nomination. I ended up putting a lot of weight into government service when considering this applicant, which is actually to my own detriment. Taking a look at Nessuno, since they were brought up, their roles on the executive discord server show that they're in Home Affairs and Culture, but because I'm not in those ministries and not in an executive council position, I can't see what Nessuno's doing in those ministries. Same with Rocketdog. I just can't see what they're up to because I don't have the access. Damn, I miss being able to see the Gameside Advocates channel like while I was Vice Delegate.

Instead, all the information I had was that Rocketdog was winding back on regional affairs. I suppose I should have asked for clarification on what exactly that winding down entailed.

 

[St George]

Having someone in the SC with GA experience and a strong RMB presence regardless of current GA status is still going to be noticeable. I admit that I didn't even think of that when I voted against the nomination. I ended up putting a lot of weight into government service when considering this applicant, which is actually to my own detriment. Taking a look at Nessuno, since they were brought up, their roles on the executive discord server show that they're in Home Affairs and Culture, but because I'm not in those ministries and not in an executive council position, I can't see what Nessuno's doing in those ministries. Same with Rocketdog. I just can't see what they're up to because I don't have the access. Damn, I miss being able to see the Gameside Advocates channel like while I was Vice Delegate.

Instead, all the information I had was that Rocketdog was winding back on regional affairs. I suppose I should have asked for clarification on what exactly that winding down entailed.

Could you explain a little bit about where the information you had was coming from?

 

[mcmasterdonia]

Rocketdog is more active than some of the current security council members. Not to mention that he has had far more government experience than some of the current members as well.

Take Marcus for example. His only activity these days is endotarting. Very rarely posts on the forum, rmb or discord. Has only briefly been in cabinet and served as University Chancellor. People have different areas they’re active in. Most of the other members of the Security Council don’t have Rocketdog’s rmb presence either. Rocketdog is also in a different timezone to all of the current members. I would also add that most of the current members have also wound back their regional affairs - particularly government affairs, to some extent. So Rocketdog would hardly be unusual even if that was the case for him.

Personally I have no issue getting in touch with him. But I think that’s probably another reason why some members favour other newbies first, because they share the same timezone and more regularly incidentally communicate.

Personally I think it’s pretty weird that this application was rejected compared to others that have been accepted.

There is no guarantee that he would remain a GA under the next delegate.

Doesn’t change the fact that it would be beneficial to have a member of the SC other than Nessuno who actually is known on the rmb.

 

[Wonderess]

At this point I consider Brendog a staple of the region, and I think he has proved his dedication to the region. If an issue of regional security occurred, I have no doubt that he would be there to aid in protecting the region with his influence and endorsements. As McM hinted at, the standards for candidacy seem to be more of a moving target than a standardized, codified set of ideas, but I see Brendog as satisfying the general understanding of a loyal, active, and competent TNPer so I personally see no reason for objection.

 

[Marcus Antonius]

Rocketdog is more active than some of the current security council members. Not to mention that he has had far more government experience than some of the current members as well.

Take Marcus for example. His only activity these days is endotarting. Very rarely posts on the forum, rmb or discord. Has only briefly been in cabinet and served as University Chancellor. People have different areas they’re active in. Most of the other members of the Security Council don’t have Rocketdog’s rmb presence either. Rocketdog is also in a different timezone to all of the current members. I would also add that most of the current members have also wound back their regional affairs - particularly government affairs, to some extent. So Rocketdog would hardly be unusual even if that was the case for him.

Personally I have no issue getting in touch with him. But I think that’s probably another reason why some members favour other newbies first, because they share the same timezone and more regularly incidentally communicate.

Personally I think it’s pretty weird that this application was rejected compared to others that have been accepted.

Doesn’t change the fact that it would be beneficial to have a member of the SC other than Nessuno who actually is known on the rmb.

Wow Mcm! Thanks for the 'shout out'

This thread is supposed to about Bren but you called me on my activity on RMB, Forum and discord. please see these..........

Spoiler: RMB Activity - Ethnon

Spoiler: Forum Stats

(Sure there was a lot of spam game action Lol, which I have ceased) My main presence is in The Polaris Library . If you remember I used to be very active in HA and Comms, when you were MoFA, before you were Delegate, and you know how much work I put into TNPU, also the reason for you having to replace me as MoCO earlier this year.
I check Discord, Forum and RMB every single day and my time on NS is several hours a day at the moment due to world events and the fact I am retired.
I do not believe that I am kicking back in my armchair with my slippers and pipe yet.

For info. My Time zone is United Kingdom (GMT)

Just looked at the clock.....it's almost 3 am!

 

[Gorundu]

Disclaimer: I'm posting as a citizen, not as the Vice Delegate and not on behalf of the Security council.

You are a Game Side Advocate, you say you check the board. How often do you talk to the people on it?
You are in HA, how many rows have you done?
What other positions have you had, and what did you do in them? Not what the job description is, but what you completed in that role?

My issue is, and this is why I would not support overriding the Security Council even though the vote was close, is that you have positions but I cannot think of what you have done in them. The Security Council does not need a warm body, it needs active partcipation. Look at this term, We have a first time Vice Delegate. The Security Council was an active participant in getting him up to speed on the task and their input was necessary. We rejected three applications this term. We cant have someone who will just go with the majority or just be present for votes. We need someone who will actively contribute to the discussion.

I'm a bit confused what exactly you mean by "positions" here. Do you mean government official positions (e.g. Gameside Advocate) or staffer positions (e.g. he's in HA) or both? In any case, out of the two you listed, he has clearly been posting on the RMB and helping newcomers when required, and as HA staff he has done rows as well. SC applicants are also looked at based on their past positions, and in that regard, he seems to also fit the bill. He's been a minister more times than several members of the SC and he would not have been if his service as minister was subpar. Regardless, shouldn't your question on what he has done in past positions been asked when the application was under consideration by the Security Council, not now?

And for all the talk about "active participation" and proactivity, can you honestly say that most current Security Council members have fulfilled that criteria? Judging by activity levels from what I can see, I think Rocketdog's activity level is on par with most members of the Security Council. So if the current members have been active participants, then I don't think anything about Rocketdog's activity levels suggests that he can't also do that.

 

[Rocketdog]

I have been winding down in government affairs and been focusing more on RMB activity, My activity has been on the RMB and discord simply based on the nature of my current roles. I don't see why it couldn't be extended to the forums if I was to become a Security Councillor

 

[Praetor]

While I have additional comments I will make later, I was curious, to those SCers who changed their vote, what or who convinced you to change your votes?

 

[mcmasterdonia]

Wow Mcm! Thanks for the 'shout out'

This thread is supposed to about Bren but you called me on my activity on RMB, Forum and discord. please see these..........

Spoiler: RMB Activity - Ethnon

Spoiler: Forum Stats

(Sure there was a lot of spam game action Lol, which I have ceased) My main presence is in The Polaris Library . If you remember I used to be very active in HA and Comms, when you were MoFA, before you were Delegate, and you know how much work I put into TNPU, also the reason for you having to replace me as MoCO earlier this year.
I check Discord, Forum and RMB every single day and my time on NS is several hours a day at the moment due to world events and the fact I am retired.
I do not believe that I am kicking back in my armchair with my slippers and pipe yet.

For info. My Time zone is United Kingdom (GMT)

Just looked at the clock.....it's almost 3 am!

I think you have proven the opposite point to what you are trying to make. Your primary activity these days is the university, spam games and endotarting, it is hardly a great deal of involvement in regional or governmental affairs.

I think you have probably reduced those hours on government activity, for varying reasons, as has Rocketdog. Each person has an area they prefer to focus on and over the years those areas can shift. Some focus on the RMB, some focus on roleplay, some focus on nothing. It is not a criticism of you so much as a blunt assessment as I see it. Rocketdog has a longer history of serving in the regional government than you have. His activity now is simply discord and regional message board focused. As Gorundu has said above, Rocketdog's history is on par with most members of the security council, I would say that it perhaps exceeds that of some members.

I don't really see why Rocketdog's activity or experience is considered outside of the norm for the security council and therefore not suitable for membership. So please explain, if you wish.

 

[Comfed]

To state that @Rocketdog is inactive is false. He’s active in Home Affairs and the RMB, which is more than I can say for most of the SC. I think the problem is that he’s active in places the SC is not, and can have valuable input into SC discussions.

 

[Dreadton]

I love how the goal post continues to change in this region. First, it was that the SC was not active enough. Now its "well the SC is only active a little so its ok now that someone we like is up for a seat."

To state that @Rocketdog is inactive is false. He’s active in Home Affairs and the RMB,

I dont see the activity in Home Affairs, which is why I asked the applicant the question.

which is more than I can say for most of the SC.

To say most of the SC is inactive is false.

 

[mcmasterdonia]

If that’s what you’re getting from this thread Dreadton then you are not reading it properly. I would also state that you’ve not answered many of the questions in this thread. Certainly not any that actually require you to detail how this decision was reached.

Why did the SC deny Rocketdog when he is as active if not more active than many of the current members of the SC? This is not even to say anything for his government experience which is more significant as well than some members. There is clearly no consistency in interpreting how the SC decides on these applications.

 

[Sil Dorsett]

Could you explain a little bit about where the information you had was coming from?

It was from direct conversation from Rocketdog. I asked two questions. Here's what I asked and what the answers were:

Hello! I have a couple of questions for your Security Council application.

1. At the end of your last application, the SC made the following remarks:
Once Rocketdog is able to demonstrate a consistent level of activity in regional affairs, the council as a whole would be more comfortable in supporting this nomination.
It has been six months your last application. How do you feel that you've accomplished the goal of demonstrating that "consistent level of activity" that we were looking for before?

2. Did the nomination of Cretox State to the Security Council and the subsequent discussion in the Regional Assembly play any part in your decision to reapply? If so, in what way?

Hey Sil, thanks for the questions!
1. I have slowly been winding back on what I do in regional affairs, doing less but being more consistent in what I do. since I have the experienced alot in TNP.
2. Yes, namely it reminded me that I should apply now, my original plan was to to apply sometime after delegate and vice delegate transitions were done. Cretox State's application made me realised that I should do it before it got busy with the general elections in Jan.

 

[Comfed]

To say most of the SC is inactive is false.

I was mostly referring to gameside activity (besides endotarting, obviously), where @Nessuno is a regular and so is @Marcus Antonius, but RMBers never hear from the rest of them.

 

[Wonderess]

I would say it isn't merely about whether Brendog is liked or not. It's about his dedication and trustworthiness in regards to the region which I can't say can be reasonably questioned. My usual thing is whether the candidate is present in the community, and I would say yes even though Brendog presents as more reserved That being satisfied, he is definitely around more than enough to satisfy the requirements of the job position and thus any other added benchmarks to me come across as superfluous.

 

[Rocketdog]

Whilst waiting for some SCers to comment on what consistent activity is in their opinion I'll summarise the majority of my activity over the past 6 months.

In HA, I have been focusing on mentoring and welcoming which coincides with being a GA. Mentoring and welcoming nations, both on the RMB and the forum and to a much smaller extent on discord. It is harder to quantify then rows in terms of how much 'activity' that is. Checking the RMB usually means at least 10mins of conversing with other nations whilst catching up old RMB posts.

 

[Praetor]

While I have additional comments I will make later, I was curious, to those SCers who changed their vote, what or who convinced you to change your votes?

In case this was missed, I thought I would mention it again. Unless I need to wait a month for a reply?

 

[Marcus Antonius]

While I have additional comments I will make later, I was curious, to those SCers who changed their vote, what or who convinced you to change your votes?

In case this was missed, I thought I would mention it again. Unless I need to wait a month for a reply?

You can ask!

I could give you the Aussie response of “none-ya”, but being British I will give you loads of words.

Prae, asking someone how and why they voted is — by and large — not considered 'polite' conversation here in the UK. While some people may not mind the question, others consider it downright offensive, along the lines of asking someone's salary or weight or how much they paid for their house.

However, I will identify myself as one of the individuals who did change their vote, this was done as is my right and in all legality.

No matter how a vote goes in the SC an applicant can still ignore it, like a previous candidate did.

If Bren wishes to take this to the RA, he can.

Edit: I was looking at our previous statement released when he didn't get the SC vote, circa June 2020, which if I recall correctly went the same way edit : - actually no, it was.....
Ayes - 4
Nays - 4
Abstain - 1

Rocketdog has been involved in various ministries and is currently a member of the Discord moderation team. He has done a little bit of everything over the years he has been part of TNP. He has also demonstrated an ability to successfully endotart to the levels we would want to see in a member of the Security Council. We have no doubt about his commitment to the region and consider him unquestionably trustworthy in that regard. However, the Security Council was concerned with the consistency of his past performance, given his tendency to take sudden absences (where he was not responding to communications) and to get too busy to reliably or consistently be present in the jobs he held over the years. This was also exemplified during the period this application was being considered, which was one of the longest in recent memory due to the delay in receiving responses to our questions. Once Rocketdog is able to demonstrate a consistent level of activity in regional affairs, the council as a whole would be more comfortable in supporting this nomination.

My main concern was reliability, certainly no trust issues.

 

[Former English Colony]

For my part, I didn't see a ton of evidence of increased activity, no one else on the SC put forward evidence of increased activity and since that had been the main sticking point 6 months ago, I voted no.

 

[Great Bights Mum]

I voted yes because my primary criteria for membership is trustworthiness. In my view, other assets which individual candidates bring to the table are extra. Brendog has been a longtime member of TNP and I have faith in his loyalty to the community and his ability to serve the region in this capacity.

 

[Rocketdog]

Been waiting for more questions, apparently there is none, (now I know questions will come my way) so will move for a vote early next week.

 

[Sil Dorsett]

Just a technicality to consider when you move for a vote... there's no motion to be voted on at this time, so make sure you define the motion first.

 

[Robespierre]

Should Rocketdog wish to move forward with their application to the Security Council by motioning for a vote -- as they've indicated that they'll be doing in the near future -- and should that motion be seconded by a member of the Regional Assembly, then the motion put to vote will be as follows:

The Regional Assembly appoints Rocketdog to the Security Council.

 

[Cretox]

In accordance with 9.1 of the SC procedure, this is what I said concerning Rocketdog's activity:

Starting with the exec server, [Rocketdog] has the following positions:

• Senior Diplomat
• Staffer in every non-NPA ministry (cards, comms, culture, FA, HA, radio, WAA)
• Forum mentor (subset of HA)

While I can't speak to his activity as a senior diplomat (though I know he's a carryover from at least last term), I could ask Sanjurika. Brendog isn't a deputy minister in any ministry. As for the other ministries:

• Cards- No posts in any cards ministry channel I have access to, though he made 2 posts in the guild channel on TNP gen back in September.
• Comms- 1 post December 3rd regarding whether he was interviewed in the past. Prior to that, 1 post in late October and 1 post late September. I don't recall him contributing to any articles or comms projects this term.
• Culture- No posts this term. Made a banner late July.
• FA- Hasn't posted in the staff channel since July.
• HA- Claimed 21 recruitment TG rows December 5th; appears to have done none? Completed 50 rows October 22nd. Claimed 3 people for forum mentoring early November.
• Radio- Last post was in September, saying he'll try to be more active.
• WAA- A few posts in early September. No activity during this term in WAA.

On the TNP general discord:

• Gameside Advocate- reasonably active [on Discord] since December 1st; last [Discord] post before that was November 3rd. This is consistent with his RMB activity. I don't really know how active/engaged he is as a mod.

The overall impression I'm getting is that he takes long breaks punctuated by periods of some activity. His ministry contributions this term aren't particularly impressive. Brendog's application was posted December 1st, with him becoming active again immediately thereafter. I'm not certain if he'll sustain even this activity should he make it onto the council, though perhaps he doesn't need to.

Rocketdog's loyalty and commitment to this region was never in question. There is no doubt in my mind that he is a faithful member of TNP, and he has a track record of government service in various positions. Based on conversations I had with people, his ministerial performance was never exceptional. However, he nevertheless was and still is a dedicated public servant. 4 years is plenty of time to out yourself as a security threat, and Rocketdog has done nothing of the sort. In fact, I'd peg his ability to pull off a coup as lower than that of some current SCers.

I suppose one could make the argument that Rocketdog's been an underwhelming member of the executive government. And that's true to some degree. But Rocketdog has demonstrated commitment to this region time and time again, and government performance is hardly the only indication of a promising SCer.

The primary reason I was on the fence about his application and ended up changing my vote was consistent activity. And by that, I really do just mean being consistently active. We can definitely rely on Rocketdog to put this region first in the abstract; that was never in question. But could we rely on Rocketdog to break his trend of sporadic involvement in regional affairs and be consistently available when he's needed? This is something I struggled to answer.

That said, I was seriously impressed by Rocketdog's RMB presence and continuous activity towards the end of last term, and his work as Lead Gameside Advocate thus far during this term. The SC as a whole needs to maintain a stronger presence on the RMB, and Rocketdog is certainly no slouch in that area. I think that doubling down on that strength as Lead GA this term was an excellent decision. Rocketdog could bring a new perspective to the SC, a perspective refined by years of government involvement.

A 2/3rds majority is a difficult thing to get. Whether Rocketdog chooses to pursue a vote or reapply down the line is up to him. I intend to support his application either way.

 

[Rocketdog]

In accordance with 9.1 of the SC procedure, this is what I said concerning Rocketdog's activity:



Rocketdog's loyalty and commitment to this region was never in question. There is no doubt in my mind that he is a faithful member of TNP, and he has a track record of government service in various positions. Based on conversations I had with people, his ministerial performance was never exceptional. However, he nevertheless was and still is a dedicated public servant. 4 years is plenty of time to out yourself as a security threat, and Rocketdog has done nothing of the sort. In fact, I'd peg his ability to pull off a coup as lower than that of some current SCers.

I suppose one could make the argument that Rocketdog's been an underwhelming member of the executive government. And that's true to some degree. But Rocketdog has demonstrated commitment to this region time and time again, and government performance is hardly the only indication of a promising SCer.

The primary reason I was on the fence about his application and ended up changing my vote was consistent activity. And by that, I really do just mean being consistently active. We can definitely rely on Rocketdog to put this region first in the abstract; that was never in question. But could we rely on Rocketdog to break his trend of sporadic involvement in regional affairs and be consistently available when he's needed? This is something I struggled to answer.

That said, I was seriously impressed by Rocketdog's RMB presence and continuous activity towards the end of last term, and his work as Lead Gameside Advocate thus far during this term. The SC as a whole needs to maintain a stronger presence on the RMB, and Rocketdog is certainly no slouch in that area. I think that doubling down on that strength as Lead GA this term was an excellent decision. Rocketdog could bring a new perspective to the SC, a perspective refined by years of government involvement.

A 2/3rds majority is a difficult thing to get. Whether Rocketdog chooses to pursue a vote or reapply down the line is up to him. I intend to support his application either way.

I thank Cretox for his insight. I have a feeling that some other SCers were also on the fence about my application. I feel what I bring to the table, both executive and gameside experience outweighs the consistent activity issue.

 

[Rocketdog]

I move the following motion for a vote.

The Regional Assembly appoints Rocketdog to the Security Council.

 

[St George]

Seconded.

 

[Comfed]

I also second the motion to vote.

 

[Robespierre]

I move the following motion for a vote.

Seconded.

The motion for a vote, as well as its second, has been recognized by the Speaker’s Office. A vote is scheduled to begin immediately and will last for a period of seven days.