[CHAMBERS] Criminal Charge Against Pigeonstan

Wonderess

Wonderess

"I will be true to you whatever comes."
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TNP Nation
Castle in Confidence
Discord
.wonderess
Prydania:
Indictment​

I bring forward the following charge(s) holding that all the below is true and honest to the best of my belief.

Name of Complainant:
Prydania

Name(s) of Accused:
Pigeonstan (Nation: Pigeonstan) a Citizen of the North Pacific. As of this filling, citizen number 3835.

Date(s) of Alleged Crime(s): June 17, 2020

Crimes:

Count 1: Conspiracy to Commit Fraud (Legal Code 1.3.12) (Legal Code 1.8.24)



The accused committed the act of Conspiracy to Commit Fraud by presenting himself as a government official with the authority to act on the government's behalf towards the region of the South Pacific, for the purpose of their personal benefit and to the detriment of the reputation of the North Pacific and Syrixia.

Count 2: Conspiracy to Commit Fraud (Legal Code 1.3.12) (Legal Code 1.8.24)

The accused committed the act of Conspiracy to Commit Fraud by misrepresenting the reason for his dismissal from the Ministry of Culture in the North Pacific Executive Discord Server, such representations were meant to damage the reputation of Syrixia and benefit the accused by presenting themselves as the victim of a minor personal dispute.

Count 3: Conspiracy to Commit Fraud (Legal Code 1.3.12) (Legal Code 1.8.24)

The accused committed the act of Conspiracy to Commit Fraud by misrepresenting the reason for his dismissal from the Ministry of Culture in the North Pacific General Discord Server, such representations were meant to damage the reputation of Syrixia and benefit the accused by presenting themselves as the victim of a misunderstanding.

Count 4: Gross Misconduct (Legal Code 1.9.25)



The accused did commit the crime of Gross Misconduct by violating the Citizens Oath. The accused violated the oaths requirements to be obedient to the laws of the North Pacific and to be responsible in action when the accused presented themselves as a government official without authorization to a foriegn power, and by committing the crime of Conspiracy to Commit Fraud as outlined in Count 1.

Count 5: Gross Misconduct (Legal Code 1.9.25)

The accused did commit the crime of Gross Misconduct by violating the Citizens Oath. The accused violated the oaths requirements to be obedient to the laws of the North Pacific and to be responsible in action when the accused purposefully misrepresented the reason for their dismissal from the government in the North Pacific Executive Discord Server, and by committing the crime of Conspiracy to Commit Fraud as outlined in Count 2.

Count 6: Gross Misconduct (Legal Code 1.9.25)

The accused did commit the crime of Gross Misconduct by violating the Citizens Oath. The accused violated the oaths requirements to be obedient to the laws of the North Pacific and to be responsible in action when the accused purposefully misrepresented the reason for their dismissal from the government in the North Pacific General Discord Server, and by committing the crime of Conspiracy to Commit Fraud as outlined in Count 3.

Count 7: Gross Misconduct (Legal Code 1.9.25)

The accused did commit the crime of Gross Misconduct by violating the Citizens Oath. The accused violated the oaths requirements to be responsible in action when the accused acted negligent by failing to read and comprehend the entire post containing instructions provided to all members of the Ministry of Culture by Syrixia, and then acted on incomplete and flawed assumptions without first asking for clarification, endangering interregional relations with The South Pacific in the process.

Specifics of Crime(s):

Pigeonstan (hereby referred to as the accused) was informed by general ping of the current projects by the Ministry of Culture. The instructions were clear and addressed to specific members of the Ministry. The accused failed to read and properly comprehend the instructions given. Instead the accused joined the official Discord server for the region of The South Pacific. Upon joining, the accused did represent himself as an official of the North Pacific government on official government business. The accused did not have permission from the Delegate, his ministers, or any other lawful government authority to represent himself as such to a foriegn government. By presenting themselves as an official of the North Pacific on official duty, the accused did cause confusion and attempted to benefit themselves by having an authority which they did not have. Such an action constitutes a conspiracy to commit Fraud by benefit of oneself, by attempting to damage the reputation of the region abroad, by attempting to damage the reputation of Syrixia and the Ministry of Culture, and by attempting to Damage the reputation of the Northern Broadcast Service, Ministry of Radio, and Dreadton. Such an action further constitutes a violation of the Citizens Oath requirement to be obedient to the Laws of the region and responsible in action.

The accused was removed as a staff member of the Ministry of Culture by Minister Syrixia due to prior bad conduct and due to the above entitled matter. The accused was informed of their removal and the reason for such an action. The accused did misrepresent the reason for his dismissal to other members of the The North Pacific [Executive] Discord Server. The accused did intentionally attempt to harm the reputation of Syrixia, the Minister of Culture by painting his dismissal as a result of a trivial disagreement. Such an action constitutes a conspiracy to commit Fraud by attempting to damage another individual. Such an action further constitutes a violation of the Citizens Oath requirement to be obedient to the Laws of the region and responsible in action.

The accused did misrepresent the reason for his dismissal to other citizens of the region in the #citizens-chanel of the North Pacific Regional Discord server. The accused claimed that he was sent by the Ministry of Culture to the South Pacific, and that it was not his fault that they misrepresented themselves. The accused attempted to frame their dismissal as a misunderstanding, once again attempted to harm the reputation of Syrixia. Such an action constitutes a conspiracy to commit Fraud by attempting to damage another individual. Such an action further constitutes a violation of the Citizens Oath requirement to be obedient to the Laws of the region and responsible in action.

Summary of Events:

The accused, along with all other members of the Ministry of Culture, were informed of current projects of the Ministry.The accused then joined the South Pacific Discord server. Once he joined, he claimed to have been sent from the Ministry of Culture to make a Northern Broadcast Service show with the South Pacific Regional Government. The South Pacific Regional officers knew of no such plans and reached out to the Minister of Communications, Gorundu who was in the channel .

Gorundu posted in the Culture channel, requesting clarification on what the accused was doing and under what authority. Syrixia confirmed that the accused had no such authority, nor was anything close to what the accused had claimed discussed. Syrixia informed the accused that he was being removed from the ministry due to his actions. The accused proceeded to claim in the public channel of the Executive Discord that his dismissal was due to a minor disagreement held over from the TNP Game Server.

The accused was questioned by a citizen in the regional general discord about an TSP expose. The accused claimed that it has to do with ministry of culture agents entering TSP discord. The Accused then claimed again that they were told to help the South Pacific make a NBS show and that it was not his fault.

Evidence:
https://www.nationstates.net/region...=display_region_rmb?postid=39290523#p39290523

https://www.nationstates.net/region...=display_region_rmb?postid=39290680#p39290680

https://www.nationstates.net/region...=display_region_rmb?postid=39291154#p39291154

https://imgur.com/a/0YtpO64
(Post presented here, from the The North Pacific Executive Discord Private channels, were declassified by order of the Delegate, @Prydania )

Request for Emergency Order on The Preservation of Evidence​

The post listed in this motion can be easily manipulated or deleted by the accused or others with no hope of recovery from on site sources. Due to the nature of the charges in this matter, we believe that there is a reasonable risk that this evidence may be tampered with or destroyed. As such, we request that the court issue an Emergency Order preventing the destruction of this evidence during its deliberation on the indictment and during all other matters until this case is resolved.

Based on a clear danger of evidentiary spoliation in this matter, We request that the court issue an Emergency Order preventing the editing, suppression, deletion of the above linked Regional Message Board post identified as Postid=39290523#p39290523, Postid=39290680#p39290680, and Postid=39291154#p39291154, and all other Discord post by the accused, regional officers, Game Side Advocates, and/or any other person who may be able to edit, suppress, or delete the referenced post.
Click to expand...

The Delegate has brought an indictment before the Court.
 
It appears the posts in question have been deleted already. That being so, I would say the order ought not be granted, given that the horse has bolted.

I think I would be minded to accept almost all counts, though I want to think a bit more on them.
 
Find below a note of the order that the Court made to restrain Pigeonstan from deleting discord posts and forum PMs following from that order. Also below are the Discord logs of this matter up to now.
Zyvetskistaahn:
TAKE NOTICE

The Court has made the below order against you. You must comply with the terms of the order.

The Court therefore orders that the Prospective Defendant, Pigeonstan, must not delete, edit, or otherwise alter any Discord post which are relevant to this request for indictment and, in particular, must not delete, edit, or otherwise alter any Discord post which is contained in the evidence submitted with the request; and any other person who may be able to edit, suppress, or delete and who is aware of the terms of this order must not delete, edit, or otherwise alter any post which the Prospective Defendant is restrained from deleting, editing, or otherwise altering.
Click to expand...
Above message sent on 18 June, 2020 at 10:10pm
Pigeonstan:
my bad
i belive that the first 3 counts are untrue due to
the fact that it was a misunderstanding (2/3)
and unintentional (1)
Click to expand...
Above message sent on 18 June, 2020 at 10:12pm
Zyvetskistaahn:
The Court is considering the request for indictment that has been filed, as indicated in the court filings thread you will be able to enter a plea and to challenge the charges stated if the request is accepted. You should not try to discuss the case privately with individual Justices, but should wait and raise the points you want make in a trial, if a trial does go ahead.
Click to expand...
Above message sent on 19 June, 2020 at 10:29am

June 18, 2020

[7:35 PM] Sword of the Hearth Thus Pierced: @Court I have posted the thread on the current matter https://forum.thenorthpacific.org/topic/9192457/#post-10321788
[9:26 PM] Zyvet: @Court the posts have already been deleted, it seems. I would have made the order, had I been aware of the motion earlier. I am minded to say that it would not be right to do so now, given the cat is out of the bag
[9:27 PM] Lady Raven Wing: Hmm
[9:28 PM] Zyvet: That is not to say I think that is the end of the matter. The content of the posts can be proven by other means and I would draw an inference as to their content due to their deletion so promptly after being brought up as evidence in an indictment
[9:35 PM] Sword of the Hearth Thus Pierced: yes
[9:35 PM] Sword of the Hearth Thus Pierced: Justice must be served
[9:35 PM] Sword of the Hearth Thus Pierced:even at the obstruction of justice
[9:38 PM] Zyvet: @Court I am going to note we’re considering the indictment, are you two of the same view re: the order as me? If so, I will note that the order is not made, due to the conduct that would have been restrained having already occurred.
[9:40 PM] Sword of the Hearth Thus Pierced: I agree, though this isnt an acceptance of the case right?
[9:40 PM] Zyvet: Not as yet
[9:40 PM] Sword of the Hearth Thus Pierced: ok
[9:41 PM] Zyvet: Though the substance of the indictment, I think I would accept all counts, except maybe count seven, as I am not sure the content of the charge amounts to gross misconduct. Though I think it is perhaps arguable as to what the threshold of criminal negligence is, so I would not take issue with accepting that charge if you are both minded to do so.
[9:41 PM] Sword of the Hearth Thus Pierced: Prydania took screen shots of all the evidence and linked it so we still have everything we need to try it
[9:43 PM] Lady Raven Wing: I remain alright with accepting the charges
[9:43 PM] Sword of the Hearth Thus Pierced: As a citizen, Pigeon went against "being obedient to her laws"
[9:44 PM] Sword of the Hearth Thus Pierced: but that is a very general read I will admit
[9:44 PM] Zyvet: That is not alleged in count seven
[9:44 PM] Zyvet: Count seven rests on the Defendant having “violated the oaths requirements to be responsible in action”
[9:45 PM] Zyvet: But as I say, I think it is an arguable issue and, given there will be a trial in any event, I would be content with it being argued if you both are
[9:46 PM] Sword of the Hearth Thus Pierced: very well
[9:53 PM] Zyvet: @Court Actually, it occurs to me that the requested order also covers discord messages which may not have been deleted. I would grant that part of the order, especially given the RMB posts have been deleted already.
[9:53 PM] Lady Raven Wing: :thumbsup:
[9:57 PM] Sword of the Hearth Thus Pierced: :thumbsup:
[10:03 PM] Zyvet: “The Court is considering the above request for indictment.

In relation to the requested emergency order, it appears that the regional message board posts have already been deleted. It is now impossible to restrain the deletion of those posts and for that reason the Court does not think it appropriate to make the order sought. The Court considers there is plainly a strong justification for an order to restrain deletion of the Discord posts, in particular the fact that it appears that the prospective Defendant has already deleted the regional message board posts that an order was sought to protect.

The Court therefore orders that the Prospective Defendant, Pigeonstan, must not delete, edit, or otherwise alter any Discord post which are relevant to this request for indictment and, in particular, must not delete, edit, or otherwise alter any Discord post which is contained in the evidence submitted with the request; and any other person who may be able to edit, suppress, or delete and who is aware of the terms of this order must not delete, edit, or otherwise alter any post which the Prospective Defendant is restrained from deleting, editing, or otherwise altering.”

@Court
[10:03 PM] Lady Raven Wing:Looks good
[10:11 PM] Zyvet: I have made the order and sent a notice of it to the prospective Defendant, who has also posted in the filings thread, so is plainly aware of it.
[11:10 PM] Zyvet: Just in terms of thinking on the reasoning behind the order, I am of the view that it is basically inherent in the power of the Court to manage criminal proceedings and to ensure a fair trial, which, to my mind, must include an ability to prevent destruction of evidence
[11:16 PM] Zyvet: @Sword of the Hearth Thus Pierced given you are willing, I am minded to appoint you to be the moderator. I will think on potential Standby Hearing Officers, but if you or @Lady Dominator have any to suggest, that would be helpful. I think, obviously, we should avoid those who have already expressed a view or who may be liable to be called as witnesses
[11:34 PM] Sword of the Hearth Thus Pierced: @Zyvet I think Dreadton is a good choice given that he is a former justice.
[11:37 PM] Zyvet: Given he keeps volunteering to prosecute he may be otherwise engaged :stuck_out_tongue:
[11:37 PM] Sword of the Hearth Thus Pierced: lol

June 19, 2020

[12:05 AM] Zyvet: Elu is a possibility
[12:10 AM] Sword of the Hearth Thus Pierced: If he is active enough
[6:32 AM] Lady Raven Wing: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachme...7301672970/Screenshot_2020-06-19-00-32-06.png
[7:00 AM] Sword of the Hearth Thus Pierced: He just doesnt understand does he?
[10:26 AM] Zyvet: <.<
I think just reply saying something to the effect that we're consider the request for indictment and that he be to enter a plea and to challenge charges stated if the request is accepted; and that he should not try to discuss the case privately with individual Justices
[10:35 AM] Sword of the Hearth Thus Pierced: Are we going to accept?
[10:45 AM] Zyvet: I am going to shortly, yes

@Wonderess when I accept the indictment, you will need to promptly send the Defendant a notice of indictment, this has commonly taken a form like this:
Hello [defendant].

You have been indicted on [number of counts] count/s of [crimes]. The indictment can be found here: [link to indictment].

A thread for your trial will be opened soon. You will receive further notice when it is opened.

You have 48 hours from the posting of that thread to inform the Court as to your plea of guilty or not guilty. Additionally, you may seek Legal Counsel in your defense, otherwise you may be assumed to be representing yourself or the Court may appoint Legal Counsel for you. Both of these actions must be posted in the trial thread.

You may still be tried if you fail to respond to the indictment. If you do not respond, the Court will enter a not guilty plea and appoint Legal Counsel to represent you.

~[Justice's name], [Chief/Associate] Justice of The North Pacific & Moderating Justice in this case
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It needs to be sent to them on the forum and to their nation. When you post the trial thread, you will need to send a further notice of trial, the form I used previously was:
Hello [defendant].

You have been indicted on [number of counts] count/s of [crimes], and now stand trial in The North Pacific in the following thread: [link to trial thread].

You have 48 hours from the posting of that thread to inform the Court as to your plea of guilty or not guilty. Additionally, you may seek Legal Counsel in your defense, otherwise you may be assumed to be representing yourself or the Court may appoint Legal Counsel for you. Both of these actions must be posted in the trial thread.

You may still be tried if you fail to respond to the indictment. If you do not respond, the Court will enter a not guilty plea and appoint Legal Counsel to represent you.

~[Justice's name], [Chief/Associate] Justice of TNP & Moderating Justice in this case
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Again, this needs to be sent on the forum and to their nation.

Naturally, the details should reflect the case. The time period for entry of plea is a matter of your discretion, as the Moderating Justice, but I think it would make sense to reflect the fact that AGORA Act's passage means that it is effectively impossible for the trial to start until at least three days (due to the RA's Rules on voting) after the acceptance of the indictment and it is likely to take somewhat longer. What I would suggest is to say the period for entry of plea should last up to 48 hours after a Prosecutor is appointed (EDIT: and confirmed) and, if a plea is entered and counsel chosen before then, the trial should be adjourned until a Prosecutor is appointed (EDIT: and confirmed). If you take that suggestion, then the relevant bits of the notices would, naturally, need to be amended.

As to the form of the trial thread OP, it should follow that of previous threads.
 
Last edited:
Given the defence objection to prosecution exhibits V, W, and X, below are the discussions of Wonderess with defence counsel prior to appointment thereof:
DALYtuq.png
n8mSLfZ.png
Additionally Wonderess sent the below message to both counsel:
So this chat will be used to talk to counsel about more sensitive topics about the proceedings of the trial.

Honestly, the defendant seems a bit absent minded as if he does not always know what he is saying or doing. I don't know if it results from a cognitive challenge or a language barrier, but I would be unjust if I didn't take that into my consideration for moderating this trial. This in mind, let's stick to his illegal actions and not get caught up in whether he himself thinks he is guilty or such.

There is still time to come to an agreement over plea which moves us forward to sentencing.

I wish you both the best of luck and thank you for your time and efforts in defending regional justice.
Click to expand...

I must admit, it does not best please me that Wonderess seems to have given an assurance to counsel on the admission of evidence prior to that evidence being entered by the prosecution and before the prosecution could make argument on it. Particularly given I had specifically said I thought a condition of excluding evidence was inappropriate.


EDIT: below are logs to date.

June 19, 2020

[9:58 PM] Blaine Wondo: @Zyvet Is it The North Pacific v Pigeonstan as a name?
[10:13 PM] Zyvet: Yes
[11:28 PM] Zyvet: @Blaine Wondo the OP does not invite the Defendant to plead or set a timetable for plea?
[11:29 PM] Blaine Wondo: I thought the verification that there is counsel came before that.
[11:29 PM] Blaine Wondo: and then the plea stage could commence
[11:30 PM] Zyvet: Plea submission and selection of counsel are the same stage
[11:31 PM] Zyvet: “Plea Submission: The Defendant will be given a period of time to enter a plea and to choose any desired legal representation. If no plea has been submitted by the end of this period, a plea of Not Guilty will be entered into the record on the Defendant's behalf. If the Defendant has not declared either their intent to represent themselves or the identity of their chosen counsel by the end of this period, an attorney will be appointed for them by the court.”
[11:35 PM] Blaine Wondo: I updated the OP
[11:35 PM] Blaine Wondo: He has a day after the regional appointment of a prosecution to declare a plea and representation

June 20, 2020

[1:08 AM] Zyvet: nods
[1:15 AM] Zyvet: Given the Defendant does not seem to understand what is required of the plea, it may be worth telling him (in thread of course) that he should consider trying to find representation or that the Court could appoint representation for him, if he wishes. I don’t particularly want to have to parse whether or not he actually admitting anything if he could instead get someone competent to tell him how to plead.
[1:16 AM] Blaine Wondo: I will do that
[1:46 AM] Zyvet: https://forum.thenorthpacific.org/topic/9192466/#post-10322358

NB: Section 3.3 of the Legal Code:


12. Any person may present criminal charges to the Court. If the charges are accepted, the Delegate will appoint a prosecutor to manage the prosecution of the case. If the Delegate is the accused or unavailable, the next available person in the Line of Succession will appoint a prosecutor to manage prosecution of the case.

[...]


18. If the prosecutor discontinues management of the prosecution of a criminal case, then the complainant may, at their discretion, manage themselves the prosecution of the criminal case. Otherwise, they may withdraw the complaint.
19. If the complainant has not stated their intent to either manage the prosecution of the case or withdraw the complaint within 14 days of the prosecutor declining the case, the complaint will be considered withdrawn.
The North Pacific
The North Pacific v. Pigeonstan
The Court is now in session and will hear the case of The North Pacific v. Pigeonstan as filed by Prydania, Delegate of The North Pacific.


Indictment

I bring forward the following charge(s) holding that all the below is true and honest to the best of my belief.

Name of Com...
[1:48 AM] Zyvet: Not entirely sure what to make of this, but my preliminary thought is that it seems like a complainant cannot withdraw a complaint once it is accepted. I think it follows from the wording of the above law, in that once the case is accepted the Delegate comes under the duty to appoint a prosecutor and the power to discontinue is the prosecutor’s, with the power to withdraw being conditioned on the prosecutor’s decision.
[1:50 AM] Zyvet: I would note, this does not really differ from the system prior to the abolition of the Attorney General, in the sense that it is the prosecuting official who decides the course of the case, not the original complainant. The difference is that the original complaint used to be made to the AG and then the Court, rather than straight to us.
[1:53 AM] Zyvet: That approach, in general, makes sense as there is a public interest in criminal proceedings as well as the private interest of the complainant. That is why there is an independent prosecutor. It is perhaps unfortunate that it also applies where the Delegate is the complainant and, presumably, will balance the public interest, but it seems to me that the approach should be the same and the Delegate cannot waive the requirement for an independent prosecutor.
[1:56 AM] Blaine Wondo: @Court The charges has been accepted and I agree that they are not dismissible at this time
[1:57 AM] Blaine Wondo: Also it shows that the court cant be used as some tool of coercion in order to make someone apologize
[1:57 AM] Blaine Wondo: Once you involve it, there is no return
[2:06 AM] Zyvet: (In fact, it occurs to me that virtually this situation did occur in relation to Artemizistan, with McM having filed as Delegate to maintain his cover and the AG initially not withdrawing, though that did not come down to Court decision as the AG eventually yielded)
[2:07 AM] Blaine Wondo: Do you want me to inform the public that the case will continue?
[3:15 AM] Zyvet: I think questions around this sort of thing have generally been regarded as for the moderating justice in the first instance (certainly moderating justices have accepted withdrawals in the past), so you’re of the view that the matter can’t be withdrawn at this stage, then I think it is for you to say so. It may be worthwhile giving some brief reasons, given it is perhaps a bit counterintuitive.
[3:23 AM] Blaine Wondo: I will provide the reasoning
[...]

June 22, 2020

[...]
[11:10 PM] Zyvet: I am actually losing my mind over this nonsense about the Advisory Opinion. The Advisory Opinion stopped being a proper statement of the law years ago when the law around the AG was amended specifically to defeat it :stuck_out_tongue:
[11:13 PM] Blaine Wondo: I honestly dont find precedent relevant in this case
[11:13 PM] Blaine Wondo: The law states what it states and that is all there is to it
[11:15 PM] Zyvet: The reason the Advisory Opinion is irrelevant is because the underlying law was changed to make it so

June 23, 2020

[...]
[7:44 PM] Zyvet: (Also, for the management of the trial, note “3. During the proceedings on a matter before the Court, substantive appeals and requests which relate to that matter must be resolved before the proceedings can continue, unless the contrary is allowed under this section.”)
[...]

[...]

June 26, 2020

[3:44 PM] Zyvet: [...]

@Blaine Wondo re: whatever is happening at the moment, some potentially relevant provisions: BoR, art 7 "A Nation may be represented by any counsel of the Nation's choosing"; Court Rules, ch 1, s 2, 3 "The Defendant will be given a period of time to enter a plea and to choose any desired legal representation", 4 "The defendant may, at any time, replace their legal counsel or choose to represent themselves."

[...]

June 30, 2020

[...]
[6:51 PM] Zyvet: Also re: the trial and appointing counsel, I say note that Pigeonstan can still appoint other counsel or represent himself, but if he does not the Court will select counsel and then post a thread calling for counsel and asking for volunteers to PM or DM you, then we can discuss and decide on such volunteers as there are (such appointments being for the Court rather than the moderator under the rules)
[7:48 PM] Blaine Wondo: Who are we going to appoint?
[...]
[7:58 PM] Zyvet: I mean, I would want to see what volunteers we get. I would not be averse to Mall, save that I do not think it appropriate to accept a condition of refusing evidence to select counsel, if the evidence is to be excluded that is a matter for argument and decision in the trial and cannot be a unilateral condition of counsel.
[...]
[11:22 PM] Zyvet: (also, the defence counsel thread need not be too detailed, this was what was used for the last occasion https://forum.thenorthpacific.org/topic/9191663/ )
The North Pacific
Seeking Volunteers For Appointed Defense Counsel
As Artemizistan has indicated a need for appointed Defense Counsel, the Court is now seeking volunteers to serve as such. Additionally, similar appointed Counsel may be needed for Ikea Rike.

Those wishing to volunteer for either should DM me on Discord at Lady Dominator#2860

July 4, 2020

[1:59 AM] Blaine Wondo: Can the court force someone to represent a defendant if they can't find anyone?
[2:16 AM] Zyvet: I should not think so, a nation cannot be compelled to participate in the activities of the regional government. But that does remind me that I was going to nudge you to post a thread seeking volunteers
[2:44 AM] Blaine Wondo: I am contacting people about it rather than just putting out a catch all thread.
[2:53 AM] Zyvet: Whomst is being contacted, might I ask?
[3:36 AM] Blaine Wondo: I have tried Dinoium who hasnt responded, Vivanco who declined, and MadJack.
[3:36 AM] Blaine Wondo: Im waiting on Dino and MJ to respond
[3:42 AM] Blaine Wondo:
The issue is that most active people work for the Delegate so its hard to find someone interested able capable to defend someone.
[4:24 PM] Zyvet: https://forum.thenorthpacific.org/topic/9192466/

?
The North Pacific
The North Pacific v. Pigeonstan
The Court is now in session and will hear the case of The North Pacific v. Pigeonstan as filed by Prydania, Delegate of The North Pacific.


Indictment

I bring forward the following charge(s) holding that all the below is true and honest to the best of my belief.

Name of Com...
[6:03 PM] Blaine Wondo: What’s wrong?
[8:40 PM] Zyvet: Because I had rather thought that there would be further discussion before an appointment, as the appointment is for the Court at large, and because of Mall’s pressing of his “condition”. I do agree the appointment, if there are not alternatives, but as I indicated the apparent insistence on prejudgment of evidentiary questions is concerning.
[8:48 PM] Blaine Wondo: My view is that each point of evidence will be considered as we go. I made it clear to both of them that we are to stick to the illegal actions committed and not get caught up on what Pigeon has or has not admitted
[9:02 PM] Zyvet: That is the point I am making, that consideration of the admissibility or exclusion of each piece of evidence (including any admissions) individually is required by the rules and that I am concerned about appointing counsel who seems to insist on adopting an approach that is contrary to the rules on evidence. But it is of little matter now, if there were not alternatives
[9:05 PM] Blaine Wondo: I asked many and was rejected

July 9, 2020

[...]
[9:55 PM] Zyvet: @Blaine Wondo the r4r opinion has been rendered, so parties in the trial may seek movement in it
[10:10 PM] Blaine Wondo: ok

July 11, 2020

[3:59 AM] Blaine Wondo: @Zyvet question, do I remain moderating justice even if I officially exit the office?
[4:04 AM] Zyvet: No, the role of moderating justice is just part of the office of Justice (or THO as the case may be), so doesn’t continue once the office is left. Whoever ends up CJ after the election will need to appoint new moderator.
[4:05 AM] Blaine Wondo: Ok, I understand
[4:09 AM] Zyvet: To note, on the points being raised in the trial, scheduling of depositions is a matter of the past really, as they are now done on the forum rather than “live” through discord (or irc, as it was when they did have to be “live”)
[5:25 PM] Zyvet: @Lady Raven Wing we need a new moderator for the trial. Mall has already indicated to me he is (for obvious reasons) not up to moderate. Are you content with me moderating?
[5:29 PM] Lady Raven Wing: Yes
[5:37 PM] Zyvet: And @Mall can I press you a bit on recusal? I think it's obvious we'll need to vote on it if you're not minded to recuse
[5:50 PM] Mall: Oh of course I'll recuse.
[6:10 PM] Zyvet: Thanks
[6:15 PM] Mall: Posted a note re recusal.
[6:16 PM] Mall: We'll need some admin assistance to block me from viewing the Court's discussion of the trial on the TNP forum until such time as the trial has concluded.
[6:16 PM] Mall: Note - I haven't viewed the thread in question, but I'm aware of its existence.
[6:17 PM] Mall: Ah! I see that has already been done.
[6:17 PM] Lady Raven Wing: Heh
[6:19 PM] Mall: omg I get an Elu trial :heart: :heart: :heart:
(NB: in the above log, "Blaine Wondo" is @Wonderess and "Zyvet" is me; omissions are made from the above log where discussion relates to the requests for reviews concerning the Speaker's power to schedule votes and vagueness in relation to Gross Misconduct, as well as for discussion of the request for indictment filed by Rwekaza)
July 11, 2020

[1:28 PM] Zyvet: Re: the trial, are you recusing, m8?
[1:39 PM] Mall: I wasn't planning on being the moderating justice, that's for sure :P
[1:39 PM] Mall: You or LRW will get that distinct pleasure
[1:40 PM] Zyvet: :stuck_out_tongue:

July 11, 2020

[6:11 PM] Zyvet: Given Mall's recusal we need to appoint a THO. I've checked that Elu is still available and he says he is. I think we should appoint him.
[6:12 PM] Lady Dominator: Sounds fine
[10:46 PM] Zyvet: https://forum.thenorthpacific.org/topic/9192457/#post-10327184

EDIT2: additions to the DM logs.
 
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Well. Naturally, I will be dismissing the case in due course. As is noted in an above post, the Court made an injunction to preserve certain evidence relating to the trial, it is not clear to me that it simply falls away with dismissal, so I would ask one of you @Lady Raven Wing @Eluvatar to agree with me to discharge it, so there is a majority to do so. I think it is obvious the injunction should not outlive the trial.
 
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