Debates: September 2016 General Election

Eluvatar

Eluvatar

TNPer
-
-
Pronouns
he/him/his
TNP Nation
Zemnaya Svoboda
Discord
Eluvatar#8517
A Debate will be held between the candidates for Delegate between (time=1473213600) and (time=1473220800) on The North Pacific Discord Server.

A Debate will probably be held between several of the candidates for Vice Delegate between (time=1473364800) and (time=1473372000) or perhaps at another time. (I am not done scheduling it, due to the larger number of candidates). (No, it has not been determined what the venue may be for the Vice Delegate debate.)

I am organizing the debate(s), but welcome volunteers to help as moderator(s) and the submission of questions to be posed to the candidates. I would invite those interested in moderating to volunteer in this topic. I would recommend that questions be submitted by sending a private message to The Voting Booth with the subject "Vice Delegate Debate Question" or "Delegate Debate Question" or something equivalent. The rules of the debate will be announced at the beginning of the debate. Suggestions for the rules are welcome, and should be made publicly in this topic.

For reference, previous instant messenger debates of The North Pacific include the January 2014 Speaker Debate, the January 2013 Speaker Debate, November 2012 unofficial Vice Delegate Debate, and the May 2012 Delegate Debate (part 2).
 
I look forward to it, I'm sure everybody will come up with some good questions.
 
In consideration of my long, long experience and exclusive residency in The North Pacific, and my complete understanding of the way election politics in the same are generally conducted, I respectfully decline to participate in the debates.

Given my position on the whole concept of debates, as it were, I think it necessary to explain why I have come to such a conclusion.

The first problem is that the format previous debates and presumable all debates are conducted, the format and methods used (such as IRC chats, etc.) are extremely clumsy and overly restrictive. They generally turn out to be a rapid-fire, FlusterCluck. That's a "Charlie Foxtrot" for you military types.

The second problem is that it sooner or later someone begins a barrage of ad hom attacks which ultimately descends into a parody of Godwin's Law without the usual references.

The third problem is if one is willing to attempt to answer very complex questions in 120 seconds or less one is also asking to be made to look like an idiot begging to get savaged (see problems 1 and 2).

My advice to anyone engaging in the upcoming debate is always to remember that the right to speak freely also consists of the right to to keep one's mouth shut as much as possible, and, if possible, say as little as possible when it is necessary to speak. Oh, and having a good sense of comedy, a good sense of timing, and the ability to deliver highly prepared one-line zingers in response to ad hom attacks.

For example, if someone calls you a jackass, you respond, "I am not a jackass. I am The Jackass.

Or, if someone says something really stupid or insulting, a reply such as, "I won't insult you by even thinking that you actually believe what you just said."

It took me nearly 14 years in NS to come to the conclusion that one is best advised to keep one's mouth shut at all times, if possible, and if one must say something, only do so on your own terms and only after carefully thinking about what you are about to say (and how it might be twisted by others for their own political benefit).

If anyone wants to find out my positions, etc., they may do so in my campaign thread. If this is unconventional, then so be it. And with no further ado (and much to the joy of everyone, I'm sure) I will proceed to keep my big mouth shut and carefully measure my words. :P *


* the obligatory emoticon so characteristic of yours truly.
 
Tomb:
Excellent idea! I would be happy to help with moderating, if needed.
Click to expand...

I would be happy to have your assistance.

If you could chat over Discord, we can work on preparation together now.
 
Where's the Discord Channel? All I can find is the NPA one, and I would like to watch this debate.
 
Pending a cleaner log, see below:

Eluvatar - 9:59 PM
Rules

Which candidate opens the debate will be determined by random draw. Thereafter, which candidate speaks first will alternate.

The debate will open with 3 minutes to each candidate to briefly introduce themselves and their platform.

Each candidate will have up to 2 minutes to respond to each question that is asked. After each candidate has responded a 45 second rebuttal period may be granted, followed by a 30 second counter-rebuttal period.(edited)
Eluvatar - 10:00 PM
I have made a random selection (using my IRC bot on our IRC channel) and the selection is @Patrick Ravenclaw (Plembobria) to open the debate.
@Patrick Ravenclaw (Plembobria) you have 3 minutes to introduce yourself and your platform. Please let us know when you are finished - I will be giving some leniency with timing, but that leniency will be shared across your times, so to speak.
Patrick Ravenclaw (Plembobria) - 10:01 PM
ok
I am Plembobria
Aka Patrick aka Plemby
I joined NS almost two years ago.
When I founded my nation it was "The Kingdom of Kingdom of Plembobria" -- I didn't know the game would add the style in itself
I joined TNP and quickly got involved in RP, though I won't link you to my first thread <_<
Over time I got swept in Politics
When I was a justice I presided over one of the first successful criminal trials in recent history
The activity and punctuality I had on the Court I want to bring to the delegates office.
Eluvatar - 10:04 PM
coughs
Patrick Ravenclaw (Plembobria) - 10:04 PM
I want the regional government to be active and involved
And to get its objectives done(edited)
That's my statement(edited)
Eluvatar - 10:04 PM
@Bootsie you have 3 minutes to introduce yourself and your platform. Please let us know when you are finished, as above.
Bootsie - 10:07 PM
Hello everyone. My name is Bootsie De Luca, incumbent Vice Delegate of The North Pacific, but please, call me Bootsie, or if you prefer, Boots. I've served this region since as long as I can remember (early 2014 is probably as close as I can get to that date). I absolutely love my region, and I hope that you'll enjoy a Bootsie Delegacy. I'm done. ?
Eluvatar - 10:07 PM
Our first question comes from Great Bights Mum ( @GBM ): What do you like best about TNP?

As Plembobria got to speak first for the opening statements, I will ask @Bootsie to respond first. By the rules, you have two minutes, but please let us know when you are finished, for the same reason as above.(edited)
Bootsie - 10:08 PM
May Plemby go first?
Work ran over and for my safety, I don't want to text and drive. ?
Patrick Ravenclaw (Plembobria) - 10:08 PM
No
<_<
Eluvatar - 10:09 PM
Would you like a recess of the debate?
Patrick Ravenclaw (Plembobria) - 10:09 PM
I can answer
Eluvatar - 10:09 PM
By mutual consent then. Proceed.
Patrick Ravenclaw (Plembobria) - 10:10 PM
What I like about TNP the most is its diversity. We have a broad range of nations interested in different things.
We aren't just a RP region or a raider region
even with military gameplay we have a range of ideologies
What's more these different groups in our region are all active and involved, and that's kind of rare.
At least, in my travels I've found that to be the case.
sips water
Eluvatar - 10:11 PM
Thank you
@Bootsie if you are here please respond to the question, otherwise I will proceed to ask Plemby the next question shortly.
Our second question comes from me (hi!): What is your opinion of the Onsite Authority statutes (section 3 of [Chapter 7](http://forum.thenorthpacific.org/pages/laws/##laws_6) of the Legal Code) and how would you approach Onsite Authority as Delegate?(edited)
the home of The North Pacific region of the online game Nationstates
Bootsie - 10:16 PM
TNP is special not because of its diversity, but because you can truly be whatever you desire to be. You control your own journey through TNP and I hope to show that in my Delegacy.
Eluvatar - 10:16 PM
All right.
Since Plembobria responded first to the first question, I'll ask @Bootsie to respond first to the second question, the one I just posted about Onsite Authority.
Bootsie - 10:19 PM
Obviously that section is quite important, as if those aren't followed, just morally (not legally) there becomes some issues. Even if appointing someone with Border Control that is not a high LoS SC member may seem light to someone, it could cause very major issues. I definitely support them being in place.
Eluvatar - 10:19 PM
As your time has elapsed and you do not appear to be typing further, I'll understand your answer to be complete.
@Patrick Ravenclaw (Plembobria) unless you would like to rebut @Bootsie's response, you may proceed to give your own answer now.
Patrick Ravenclaw (Plembobria) - 10:21 PM
Well, the section firstly allows summary banjection of recruiters and rules violators
I intend to deal with those two as swiftly as possible
Regarding the clause that allows the delegate to regulate the RMB as they see fit
I intend to be pretty permissive in what I allow, but posts that are plainly offensive, or generally annoying to several people they will be suppressed.(edited)
Eluvatar - 10:24 PM
As your time has elapsed and you do not appear to be typing further, I'll understand your answer to be complete.
@Bootsie if you would like to rebut, you may do so, otherwise I will be posting the next question shortly.
Bootsie - 10:24 PM
Nope.
(I choose not to rebut.)
Eluvatar - 10:26 PM
Our third question also comes from Great Bights Mum ( @GBM ): This is your chance to make your mark on the region. What would you like your legacy to be?

As Bootsie responded to our last question first, @Patrick Ravenclaw (Plembobria) please proceed.(edited)
Patrick Ravenclaw (Plembobria) - 10:27 PM
That is a difficult question.
Considering that we've had quite a few good delegates
and not all have a shining legacy
I suppose that I'd like the region to remember that my delegacy was a time when the government was busy
Kind of like r3n's delegacy
Eluvatar - 10:29 PM
As your time has elapsed and you do not appear to be typing further, I'll understand your answer to be complete.

@Bootsie you may proceed, either with your own answer or with a rebuttal.
Bootsie - 10:30 PM
You can be busy and get nothing done. I want to be known as a Delegate that has served my region, quite literally. I want to open the government to our citizenry to contribute ideas, and make TNP something we all can be proud of.
Eluvatar - 10:31 PM
As your time has elapsed and you do not appear to be typing further, I'll understand your answer to be complete.

@Patrick Ravenclaw (Plembobria) please let us know if you would like to make a rebuttal, otherwise I will pose the next question shortly.
Patrick Ravenclaw (Plembobria) - 10:32 PM
Well allowing citizens to contribute, etc. is hardly useful if the government isn't active.
Not saying you'd be inactive but the government needs to make sure it follows up and monitors the progress of ideas
Eluvatar - 10:34 PM
I assess the rebuttal as done. @Bootsie you may have 30 seconds for a counter-rebuttal or I may proceed with the next question at your preference.
Bootsie - 10:34 PM
Your idea of monitoring progress is nagging the heck out of them. There will be reports done by my Ministers and there will be consequences for inactivity.
Eluvatar - 10:34 PM
When making responses, please close your response with (Done) or equivalent.
I assess the counter-rebuttal as done.
Our fourth question also comes from me (hi!): What are your thoughts on the "GCR Sovereignty Accords" and how they may relate to The North Pacific?

As Plembobria responded to our last question first, @Bootsie please proceed.(edited)
(Note: this question is based on a question posed by Dalimbar in the May 2012 Delegate Runoff Debate)(edited)
Bootsie - 10:36 PM
I do think that they are helpful to the regions that they were drafted by, as they fit the leadership styles of their respective leaders. However, at this time, I do feel as though it may not be the best for TNP to be involved in, unfortunately.
(Done)
Eluvatar - 10:37 PM
@Patrick Ravenclaw (Plembobria) ?
Patrick Ravenclaw (Plembobria) - 10:39 PM
Well most importantly the accords haven't been ratified by TNP, and I'd be opposed to that. Even though it makes military action voluntary, it also makes WA-endorsed governments official. Considering our stances on GCR coups that have taken place, I don't want the region to look like bad ally for not defending governments it refuses to recognize.
Or engaging in the various forms of cooperation it encourages.
(done)(edited)
Eluvatar - 10:40 PM
@Bootsie if you would like to make a rebuttal, do so, otherwise I'm getting out the next question.
Our fifth question also comes from Great Bights Mum ( @GBM ): How would you describe your leadership style?

As Bootsie responded to our last question first, @Patrick Ravenclaw (Plembobria) please proceed.
@Patrick Ravenclaw (Plembobria) ?
Patrick Ravenclaw (Plembobria) - 10:44 PM
ok
I was afk for a minute there
I tend to want results. I want things done and on time. I'm not overbearing as such (or so I'd like to think) and I'm perfectly willing to be flexible with people's RL problems (this is a game after all).
I'm perfectly willing to listen other's suggestions, especially those from more experienced players.
(done)(edited)
Eluvatar - 10:46 PM
@Bootsie you may rebut and/or give your own response.
Bootsie - 10:48 PM
I believe everyone wants results. I think you'd have to be crazy to be running for Delegate and not want results. I feel as though I'm an encouraging leader, wanting to see my team grow and develop on its own, but also gets things done. I like to think that you can have fun while being the best, and that's what I want to see under my Delegacy. (Done)
Eluvatar - 10:49 PM
@Patrick Ravenclaw (Plembobria) you may rebut. If you do not, I will post the next question shortly.
Patrick Ravenclaw (Plembobria) - 10:49 PM
nay
Eluvatar - 10:50 PM
Our sixth question is a question used in the second May 2012 Delegate Runoff Debate by Ator People: When voters consider you verses your opponent, what is the one greatest thing that sets you apart from the other?

As Plembobria responded to our last question first, @Bootsie please proceed.
Bootsie - 10:52 PM
I think when you look at me versus Plembobria, you'll definitely see our pasts coming out in our Delegacy plans. Plembobria is looking for productivity, yes, but it's a game, if there are those that want to be involved in the government, that makes it more productive and more active! (Done)
Eluvatar - 10:52 PM
@Patrick Ravenclaw (Plembobria) you may rebut and/or give your own response.
Patrick Ravenclaw (Plembobria) - 10:52 PM
I think Bootsie's nicer ?
More seriously
I think my record of activity in office is more complete (done)(edited)
Bootsie - 10:53 PM
I'd like to rebut.
Eluvatar - 10:54 PM
proceed.
(The rules give you 45 seconds, and Plembobria 30 seconds to counter-rebut)
Bootsie - 10:55 PM
I have been active in office, and have been for quite some time. Many of the things I've done cannot be seen on our forums, but that doesn't mean I haven't been active on TNP's forum or in my office.
Eluvatar - 10:55 PM
As your time has elapsed and you don't appear to be typing, I assess your rebuttal as complete.
@Patrick Ravenclaw (Plembobria) you may counter-rebut, or I will post the next question shortly.
Our seventh question is a question used in the first May 2012 Delegate Runoff debate, though I'm unaware of its author: Do you plan on implementing any opportunities for regional roleplay? If so, please state what you have in mind?

As Bootsie responded to our last question first, @Patrick Ravenclaw (Plembobria) please proceed.
Patrick Ravenclaw (Plembobria) - 10:57 PM
Aside from promotion on-site, I don't think the government can do much to improve roleplay or provide opportunities from it. It has to grow on its own
(done)
Eluvatar - 10:58 PM
@Bootsie you may proceed.
Bootsie - 10:59 PM
I believe RP has some ways to go. Yes, you can't exactly control it, but we do have a plethora of RP mods that I'm sure would be happy to assist maybe mentoring our new RPers out. I know they were originally created to moderate RP, but there are too many to just moderate.
Eluvatar - 11:00 PM
As your time has elapsed and you don't appear to be typing, I assess your response as complete.

@Patrick Ravenclaw (Plembobria) you may proceed.
Patrick Ravenclaw (Plembobria) - 11:01 PM
No rebuttal
Eluvatar - 11:01 PM
Our eighth question is also a question used in the first May 2012 Delegate Runoff debate, though I'm unaware of its author: What do you think the role of outside organizations in a Feeder region is?

As Plembobria responded to our last question first, @Bootsie please proceed.
I can clarify the question if desirable.
Bootsie - 11:03 PM
I was about to ask for that. It's phrased weird.
Patrick Ravenclaw (Plembobria) - 11:03 PM
agrees
Eluvatar - 11:04 PM
The question refers to groups of people some of whom are members of the region but not all.
For the sake of addressing it today, please consider other regions, multiregional organizations, transregional clubs or organizations, all alike.
Bootsie - 11:07 PM
I believe that TNP, like all Feeders, carry a lot of weight, purely for them being Feeders. Regions are lost daily to coups and whatnot, but Feeder coups always make headlines. What we do outside of our border matters. We are being watched by the entire community, and we must take everything slowly and with determination.
Eluvatar - 11:07 PM
As your time has elapsed and you don't appear to be typing, I assess your response as complete.

@Patrick Ravenclaw (Plembobria) you may proceed.
Patrick Ravenclaw (Plembobria) - 11:08 PM
They can indeed be useful.
Inter-Regional cooperation is important regarding game-wide affairs
For instance the WA convention on campaign spam creates a broad coalition to fight irritating WA campaigns
This adds more power to the strategy outlined in the treaty than it would be if just one region was doing it.
(done)
Eluvatar - 11:09 PM
@Bootsie you may rebut now, otherwise I will be posting the next question momentarily.
Our ninth question is also a question used in the second May 2012 Delegate Runoff debate by Ator People: Which TNP delegate do you consider to be your greatest influence, and why?

As Bootsie responded to our last question first, @Patrick Ravenclaw (Plembobria) please proceed.
Patrick Ravenclaw (Plembobria) - 11:10 PM
r3n without a doubt
I was only here for the second half of his delegacy, but the period in which I joined was the most active it has ever been as far as the government was concerned
for instance, the NPA reached its peak number of participants
(done)
Eluvatar - 11:11 PM
@Bootsie you may proceed.
Bootsie - 11:13 PM
I can't disagree with R3n's Delegacy, but I have to say McMasterdonia. If it wasn't for him building in me that I could do anything I set my heart to, I would not be standing here today. I would've left TNP a long time ago. He's been an amazing Delegate, and I'm so glad he'll be there to guide me in the future. (Done).
Eluvatar - 11:13 PM
@Patrick Ravenclaw (Plembobria) you may rebut, otherwise I will be posting the next question momentarily.
Patrick Ravenclaw (Plembobria) - 11:13 PM
I don't want to offend my mother ?
Eluvatar - 11:13 PM
Our tenth question is also a question used in the second May 2012 Delegate Runoff debate by Ator People: As it is right now, do you believe the delegate has too much or too little power?

As Plembobria responded to our last question first, @Bootsie please proceed.
Bootsie - 11:16 PM
I don't believe either. Grosseschnauzer would probably love to hear me say this, but I believe the law is currently crafted in a way that balances what the Delegate can and can't do. If there is a change in the future, however, I'd prefer that the Delegate have a little less power to give the highest power in TNP (RA) the lead over what happens to the region. (Done).
Eluvatar - 11:16 PM
@Patrick Ravenclaw (Plembobria) please proceed.
Patrick Ravenclaw (Plembobria) - 11:19 PM
Not really. I've had some concerns over the delegate's veto power. While this is a good function for RL democracies to balanced the will of the elected legislature against the will of the elected executive. I don't think the delegate, elected by the RA, should claim a popular mandate from the RA against the RA. However, they can always be recalled.
To clarify, I think the delegate's powers are checked by the other functions of government so abuse is highly unlikely. So no.
(done)
Eluvatar - 11:20 PM
@Bootsie you may rebut (or otherwise respond). Otherwise I'll be posting the next question momentarily.
As we are now out of questions not by me, the eleventh question is also from me (hi!): What are your thoughts on the current state of our ally, The East Pacific and how that affects us?

As Bootsie responded to our last question first, @Patrick Ravenclaw (Plembobria) please proceed.
Patrick Ravenclaw (Plembobria) - 11:22 PM
Can you clarify the question
Is TEP in a crisis I didn't hear about?
Eluvatar - 11:22 PM
Hey, next week this might be your problem.
I'm giving either of you exactly 0 help here ?
Bootsie - 11:23 PM
I am ready to answer.
Eluvatar - 11:23 PM
I will however give a little bit more leniency with the clock here.
You may defer first response to Bootsie at your discretion.
Patrick Ravenclaw (Plembobria) - 11:24 PM
I will
Eluvatar - 11:24 PM
All right.
@Bootsie you have let's say 4 minutes.
Bootsie - 11:27 PM
The East Pacific is probably our closest Feeder region. We've had very close ties to their Delegate, and they've helped us on numerous occasions. One issue I see with TEP is that they didn't let anyone know that the transition had happened (at least, my signal of it even occurring was delayed) and it really shows that someone wasn't taking regional security seriously. Yes, it probably was an accident, but with such large regions, we must learn from this and ensure we keep our region secure, even ironically from ourselves over-endotarting.
Eluvatar - 11:29 PM
All right. I'm saying time. @Patrick Ravenclaw (Plembobria) you may proceed. You, also, have 4 minutes for this one.
Patrick Ravenclaw (Plembobria) - 11:31 PM
Well as an ally we are obligated to defend their current government militarily if need be. What happens in TEP affects us because of that.
(done)
Eluvatar - 11:32 PM
@Bootsie you may rebut (or otherwise respond). Let's say 90 seconds as I doubled the response time.
Bootsie - 11:33 PM
I would like to add that we have definitely learned a lot from the entire situation about regional security and the importance of an active SC. Something I will not go much into as a candidate for Delegate, however. ?
Eluvatar - 11:34 PM
@Patrick Ravenclaw (Plembobria) you may counter-respond, otehrwise I will be posting the next question immediately.
Our twelfth question is from @Praetor : What can the government do more than what is already is being done to convince individuals to join the forum and retain them?

As Bootsie ultimately responded to our last question first, @Patrick Ravenclaw (Plembobria) please proceed.
Patrick Ravenclaw (Plembobria) - 11:37 PM
The government elected offsite can be active and involved offsite. This I believe will get nations in the game interested in the forum. As the discover new parts of the game offsite they should want to stay.
The government can also assist by answering questions and supporting member once they've joined.
(Done)
Eluvatar - 11:38 PM
@Bootsie please proceed.
Bootsie - 11:40 PM
I have to disagree with you on that one, Plemby. Yes, an active offsite is crucial, but unless you have some of that trickle onsite, no one is going to want to even join. This is what I believe Lord Ravenclaw was attempting to do with the creation of the Ministry of Gameside Affairs. We should be getting the RMB and onsite excited and help them with the transition the entire way through Home Affairs mentoring.
(Done)
Eluvatar - 11:41 PM
@Patrick Ravenclaw (Plembobria) you may rebut.
Patrick Ravenclaw (Plembobria) - 11:41 PM
arg, when I said active and involved offsite I mean to say onsite
my apologies for that oversight
Eluvatar - 11:41 PM
@Bootsie you may counter-rebut.
Bootsie - 11:41 PM
I choose not to.
Eluvatar - 11:41 PM
Our twelfth question is from @Nasania: How will the prospective delegates expand NPA involvement and recruitment? What do they have in store for NPA policy?

As Plembobria responded to our last question first, @Bootsie please proceed.
Bootsie - 11:44 PM
Thank you, Nasania. I do want to continue with active training of soldiers. We are a bit short of those in command of troops, and we can definitely improve on that. Kasch I believe just passed his officer test, and if we continue, we'll soon have leaders that can ensure an active military. While I respect the current leaders of the NPA, it can't solely rest on four people to stay active. Delegation is key, but we also need to follow the Chain of Command.
(Done).
Eluvatar - 11:45 PM
@Patrick Ravenclaw (Plembobria) please proceed.
Patrick Ravenclaw (Plembobria) - 11:47 PM
As HA minister I regularly TG WA nations for NPA membership. Though I served a very brief period in the NPA will not claim to be an expert in military affairs. I will continue regular recruitment. And also make sure that nations are being notified of ongoing missions by TG as well as PM.
(done)
Eluvatar - 11:48 PM
@Bootsie you may rebut, otherwise next question now.
Bootsie - 11:49 PM
I would be careful to not notify nations of all ongoing missions. We do keep many to just our citizenry for obvious reasons. I do think TGs are important, but they can't be the only way you recruit. Most TGs are just walls of text that people open and close, naturally.
Eluvatar - 11:50 PM
@Patrick Ravenclaw (Plembobria) you may counter-rebut.
Our thirteenth question is from me (hi!): What is your opinion of the Freedom of Information Act, as amended, (section 5 of [Chapter 7](http://forum.thenorthpacific.org/pages/laws/##laws_6) of the Legal Code) and how would you approach the ongoing declassification of past archives?

As Bootsie responded to our last question first, @Patrick Ravenclaw (Plembobria) please proceed.
the home of The North Pacific region of the online game Nationstates
Patrick Ravenclaw (Plembobria) - 11:52 PM
sorry i was afk again
By notify nations I'm referring to current NPA members not all nations in the region.
Eluvatar - 11:53 PM
nods
Bootsie - 11:53 PM
Ah.
Eluvatar - 11:54 PM
@Patrick Ravenclaw (Plembobria) are you ready to answer the FoIA question?
Patrick Ravenclaw (Plembobria) - 11:54 PM
Yes
The FOIA is important. The residents have a right to know what has gone on in the halls of the executive. As Chief Justice I had some declassification to do. It is a simple, routine job. I intend to declassify any information requested that doesn't demand classification under the law.
(done)
Eluvatar - 11:57 PM
@Bootsie you may of course proceed.
September 7, 2016
Bootsie - 12:00 AM
The FoIA is key to the security and transparency of our government at the same time. For the security, many stuff is classified so that what is needed to stay secure is in fact secure in our region. On the other hand, there is that level of transparency that can be asked so our leaders don't become corrupt. (Done)
Eluvatar - 12:00 AM
@Bootsie & @Patrick Ravenclaw (Plembobria) - Can I keep you guys for a little bit longer? We lost some time unexpectedly there and I'm left with things unfinished. I'd like 6-8 minutes for closing statements -- do the two of you have time for 1 more question before that?
Patrick Ravenclaw (Plembobria) - 12:01 AM
yes
Bootsie - 12:01 AM
I'm free.
Eluvatar - 12:01 AM
Our fourteenth and final question is from @Cormac : How do you believe The North Pacific should engage with other Feeder and Sinker regions that have alternative governmental structures perceived as less democratic than TNP's? Would you emphasize respect for diversity or take a hard line in supporting democratic/republican governance?

As Plembobria responded to our last question first, @Bootsie please proceed.(edited)
Bootsie - 12:02 AM
Whoops. I read that as Plemby goes first. Sorry for the delay.
The Pacific is one of the examples that comes to mind when I think of this question. I don't hate the Pacific, I'll be real honest. Yes, I don't agree with their stance on government, but they chose to be less democratic with their succession line. I'm not going to force my ideology onto them, and I don't expect them to come over here and do it either.
Eluvatar - 12:05 AM
@Patrick Ravenclaw (Plembobria), are you the six-fingered man? (Proceed.)
Patrick Ravenclaw (Plembobria) - 12:06 AM
I won't take a hardline in supporting democratic governance. Some regions may like their monarchical systems. It's not for us to decide for them. I will however not give TNP's blessing to leaders who've usurped the democratic systems in their respective regions for their own benefit.
Like someone I do not think requires naming.
(done)
Eluvatar - 12:07 AM
@Bootsie you may rebut, otherwise we will move to closings.
Bootsie - 12:07 AM
I choose not to rebut.
Eluvatar - 12:07 AM
At this time I will ask the candidates to give us some closing statements. Remind us of why we should vote for you, and share your thoughts on the debate as a whole and what it says about your candidacy. As Bootsie was the last to answer a question first, @Patrick Ravenclaw (Plembobria) please speak first. You have 3 minutes. There will be up to a minute each for back and forth at the end.
Patrick Ravenclaw (Plembobria) - 12:08 AM
Thank you.
I hope that based on the exchange of ideas here some readers have been convinced to support me. I've laid out plenty of my opinions and I hope you agree with them. TNP is not facing some horrible existential choice like RL politicians would have it. We're both decent TNPers who love our region a lot.
But if you like what you read from me this evening I hope you consider voting for me.
Thank you again (done)
Eluvatar - 12:11 AM
And now for @Bootsie
Bootsie - 12:13 AM
In short, I am a more prepared choice for Delegate. My knowledge of regional security, foreign affairs, and the overseeing of multiple ministries is something that I can be proud of. I want this term to be the best term of TNP, ever, and I believe that if the policies laid out in my campaign are successful and my executive council and staff are active, we can accomplish that goal. I want to thank my early supporters for their help in shaping my campaign, and I welcome all supporters to rally around and contribute to the campaign. After all, we collectively are the North Pacific. Thank you. (Done).
Eluvatar - 12:14 AM
@Bootsie or @Patrick Ravenclaw (Plembobria) you may rebut.
Bootsie - 12:15 AM
I will not rebut.
Patrick Ravenclaw (Plembobria) - 12:16 AM
me neither
shakes bootsies hand
laughs cuz he has one of those shocky things
Eluvatar - 12:17 AM
Thank you Bootsie and thank you Plembobria for a wonderful debate. I'd thank the audience for their good behavior, but I gave you all no room to misbehave!

I hope this debate can be of use to us in deciding how to vote.
 
A Debate will be held between several of the candidates for Vice Delegate between (time=1473364800) and (time=1473368400) on The North Pacific Discord Server.
 
For the Vice Delegate debate:

Eluvatar - Yesterday at 4:00 PM
Rules

The order in which candidates speak will be determined by random shuffle for every segment.

The debate will open with 2 minutes to each candidate to briefly introduce themselves and their platform.

Each candidate will have up to 90 seconds to respond to each question that is asked. After all candidates have responded a 2 minute discussion period may be granted.

The debate will close with 2 minutes to each candidate for closing statements, followed by a few minutes of further comments.
Eluvatar pinned a message to this channel. See all the pins.
Yesterday at 4:00 PM
September 8, 2016
Eluvatar - Today at 4:01 PM
Hello and welcome to the Vice Delegate debate for the September 2016 General Election in The North Pacific!
I have made a random shuffle (using python's random module) and the ordering is Lord Ravenclaw, Yeraennus, Lord Lore, and Praetor to open the debate.

@Lord Ravenclaw, you have 2 minutes for your opening statement. For real this time.
Lord Ravenclaw - Today at 4:03 PM
My name is Lord Ravenclaw, better known as Raven. I am currently the incumbent Delegate, term locked after two terms. Under my leadership we have seen The North Pacific break records over a decade old. I am running on a realistic campaign - that I am dependable, loyal and unafraid of doing my job regardless of the social consequences in that I am worried that vice-delegates elected to a first term as part of a ticket will be unable to carry out their constitutionally mandated duties - such as enforcing the removal of the Delegate due to the social pressures of them being the source of their success and the sense of loyalty that comes with it.

I do not flinch from duty and have built a career spanning four years of making difficult choices.

(Elu I'm currently doing admin security checks on four pages of applications)
Eluvatar - Today at 4:04 PM
@Sodium MacSalterson, Esq. you may proceed
Sodium MacSalterson, Esq. - Today at 4:05 PM
Give me one second
Ok, here we go
My name is Yeraennus, better known as Yer(a) or Sodium. I am the former deputy AG under Tomb and following his resignation, Acting AG Sasten. Despite my relative youth compared to other candidates in this election, I am promising an administration that is open and active when interacting with the community. Should I be elected, I will act to the best of my ability to serve this region, no matter the delegate I am chosen alongside.

I will remain honest through any decisions I have to make, regardless of their impact against me or The North Pacific as a whole.(edited)
Eluvatar - Today at 4:12 PM
@Lore, Architect of Pandemonium if you're here, you may speak.
Apparently they are not here. @Praetor you may proceed.
Praetor - Today at 4:16 PM
My name is Praetor, I am currently the Minister of Foreign Affairs for The North Pacific. I’ve spent my last term being instructed by many of the older members of the region on various matters and have gained a lot of experience from them. I am running on a joint ticket but regardless of who is elected Delegate I will be able to work with them. I am an active individual and should I be elected, I will work with the Security Council to complete citizenship applications in a timely manner as well as work towards holding the second largest endorsement count in the world.
(done)
Eluvatar - Today at 4:16 PM
I have made a random shuffle (using python's random module) and the ordering is Lord Lore, Yeraennus, Praetor, and Lord Ravenclaw for the first question.

Our first question is from the 2012 unofficial Vice Delegate debate: If the delegate gives notice of absence and is then gone for a month, would you support a recall of them?

@Sodium MacSalterson, Esq., you're up.
Sodium MacSalterson, Esq. - Today at 4:18 PM
It depends on the circumstances, but in most cases, no. The delegate has provided proper notice of his or her absence before-hand, and an acting delegate for the interim that they are gone has already been chosen. No one can control real life's schedule, so the best one can do is provide proper notice a vast majority of the time.
Eluvatar - Today at 4:19 PM
Alright, taking that as done, @Praetor proceed please.
Praetor - Today at 4:21 PM
If the delegate has taken proper preparations prior to their departure and planned for being absent for a month then I would not. However, should the delegate plan to be absent for a week and yet not return after, in that scenario I would support a recall of the delegate.
Eluvatar - Today at 4:22 PM
@Lord Ravenclaw, you're up.
Lord Ravenclaw - Today at 4:24 PM
Well, that's a very interesting question. I think I recall what inspired it as well. Well, firstly it depends on the circumstances. Did the Delegate state that they will be away for a Month? If not, how long did they say, if at all? Sometimes, things happen. Real life happens, and it happens to us all. Was an acting delegate named? If not, did the Vice Delegate step up for regional security? If it became absolutely vital that the region needed to be secured and no word was forthcoming from the Delegate then I may have little choice. Regional security is paramount, and my choice would not be personal in that scenario but with the security of our region in mind.
Eluvatar - Today at 4:25 PM
Now that you've all had an opportunity to address the question, I'm opening the floor to a 2 minute discussion period (to discuss one another's responses).
(You are free to decline, and I'll give the next question instead.) (I will take an absence of typing as an invitation to continue with the next question.)(edited)
Sodium MacSalterson, Esq. - Today at 4:25 PM
Please continue
Eluvatar - Today at 4:26 PM
I have made another random shuffle (using python's random module) and the ordering is Lord Lore, Yeraennus, Lord Ravenclaw, and Praetor for the second question.

Our second question is from @McMasterdonia: Which of your opponents would you be most likely to support, if you were not in the race?

@Sodium MacSalterson, Esq., you're up.(edited)
Sodium MacSalterson, Esq. - Today at 4:28 PM
Assuming you are referring to the vice-delegacy race only, I would support Lord Ravenclaw. He has the most exensive track record of the candidates here and many policies that I agree with. The others, while their campaigns are certainly well thought out and have great ideas, simply do not have the experience that someone like Raven does
(Done)
Eluvatar - Today at 4:29 PM
@Lord Ravenclaw please proceed
Lord Ravenclaw - Today at 4:31 PM
It's difficult to say. I think Praetor and Yera both have great potential, Roman has undeniable experience, Lore has a unique outlook on things that most lack. I'm running in short due to the fact that there are two tickets, so my preference would - given those tickets - have to rest with Roman. Although were Yera or Praetor independent, my preference would have to go with either of them.
Eluvatar - Today at 4:31 PM
@Praetor it's your turn now.
Praetor - Today at 4:31 PM
(answering phone)
Eluvatar - Today at 4:31 PM
If either @Lord Ravenclaw or @Sodium MacSalterson, Esq. have comments about the other's responses, I will permit them now.
Sodium MacSalterson, Esq. - Today at 4:32 PM
I have none
Lord Ravenclaw - Today at 4:32 PM
My only comment is a lament that he chose to run on a ticket for his first go at high office.
Eluvatar - Today at 4:32 PM
All right. @Praetor are you able to respond now?
Praetor - Today at 4:33 PM
I have no issues at all with any of the candidates. I don't think that should one candidate be elected over another that there will be a catastrophe. All of the candidates are trustworthy. While I would decline to endorse a candidate in particular, I would probably end up voting for Lord Ravenclaw due to his experience and dedication.
(Yes)
Eluvatar - Today at 4:34 PM
Unless I see somebody typing I will proceed with the third question in ten seconds.
I have made yet another random shuffle (using python's random module) and the ordering is Lord Lore, Praetor, Yeraennus, and Lord Ravenclaw for the second question.

I have based our third question on a 2012 question, and on a subject that has been discussed before this election: What is your opinion on the Vice Delegate also being a member of the Delegate's government? On the Delegate and Vice Delegate running together on a combined ticket?

@Praetor, you may begin.
Praetor - Today at 4:36 PM
The Vice Delegate is in an unique position, they are not always part of the Executive, however should they need to become Acting Delegate it is ideal that the Vice Delegate is able to run the government until another Delegate is elected. Running on a combined ticket presents to voters that in the unfortunate scenario where something happens to the Delegate that the Vice Delegate will be able to continue the Delegate's policies till the next election.
Eluvatar - Today at 4:37 PM
@Sodium MacSalterson, Esq. you may proceed.
@Sodium MacSalterson, Esq. we're looking for a ~90 second response, not an essay >_>
Sodium MacSalterson, Esq. - Today at 4:40 PM
It is necessary for all sections of government to be able to interact with each other. In this sense, a Vice delegate must maintain a level of activity in both their government and the delegate's government, and have some level of acquaintance with the operations of the delegate's branch day-to-day. While it has been noted that the delegate-candidate Plembobria and I are running on a pseudo-ticket (in that we have endorsed each other's campaigns but are running mostly independently of each other), I am neutral on the stance of tickets, but think that it is best for the region that both the delegate and vice delegate maintain somelevel of acquaintance
(sorry, done)
Eluvatar - Today at 4:40 PM
@Lord Ravenclaw please.
Lord Ravenclaw - Today at 4:40 PM
I think my views on the second part of this question are rather clear - for a first time, for non-incumbents, I have severe misgivings when one half of the ticket, the vice delegate is new to the political arena. In my experience I have seen and experienced political patronage - on both sides of the coin, so I know what it's like to feel indebted to more influential, higher profile characters in NationStates and attributing your success to their own backing and patronage.

For a role such as that of Vice Delegate, it is alarming and concerning - the possible security risks of a Vice Delegate who cannot "turn against their patron/mentor" to fulfil their constitutionally mandated duties to secure the delegacy if necessary based on a recall or rogue delegate is profoundly worrying.

As for the Vice Delegate serving as part of the cabinet, it would depend on the position, as well as their experience. Newer players are prone to (and I speak from my own experience) trying to do far too much in the hopes that it will raise their profile and improve their standing. Holding two influential roles in TNP at such a stage could be a double-edged sword for both TNP and said player as it could potentially lead to them not giving either role the attention it would deserve and not being able to live up to the faith/trust showed by the citizens who supported them {or their ticket in this case}.(edited)
Eluvatar - Today at 4:41 PM
chuckles
Lord Ravenclaw - Today at 4:41 PM
You had to know I'd plan ahead with a response Elu, I've based a campaign on this.
Eluvatar - Today at 4:41 PM
If there are no rebuttals / further responses, I'll be posting the fourth and final question momentarily.
Sodium MacSalterson, Esq. - Today at 4:44 PM
The idea of a vice-delegate being unable to act against their delegate simply because they ran on a ticket or have endorsed each other's campaigns holds little water to me. No matter how closely they're acquainted, those working together in office should maintain a professional relationship, as necessitated by the oathes of office they have taken
Lord Ravenclaw - Today at 4:44 PM
You are vastly underestimating the social construct that is NSgovernment.
Praetor - Today at 4:45 PM
I disagree with Lord Ravenclaw that an individual is unable to express disagreement with their "patron/mentor" as he put it. I also believe that if the Vice Delegate is part of the Cabinet that they will be more attuned to the Delegate should they begin to go rogue and react quicker. As well, in my particular case there are no plans for myself to hold a Minister position should I be elected but would serve more as an advisory role.
Lord Ravenclaw - Today at 4:47 PM
It is very easy for a new player, a less experienced player, to become reluctant to cause waves or do anything that may impact someone who has vocally and strongly supported them. You may not think it is the case - that's fine, you may not have witnessed it, that's also fine, but I can point to examples. This is a political game and the politics of socialisation, peer pressure and all that lovely stuff are alive and well in this game, please trust me on that.
Sodium MacSalterson, Esq. - Today at 4:48 PM
It is possible for any player to become reluctant when removing their delegate from office, especially a one who has endorsed and supported them, no matter their experience. It cannot be assumed that this is a phenomenon exclusive to those newer into the political side of NationStates(edited)
Eluvatar - Today at 4:49 PM
All right.
Praetor - Today at 4:49 PM
I'm sure there are cases where that scenario has happened. Indeed all that lovely stuff is in this game, I have seen to that. In my time as Minister though, I have been able to do what is best for the region regardless of my personal feelings on the matter.
Eluvatar - Today at 4:49 PM
I'm going to ask you all to wrap this up within the next few seconds.
Lord Ravenclaw - Today at 4:49 PM
Conflicts can happen regardless of the experience levels, granted my argument has entirely been on the dangers of this current ticket set up.
Eluvatar - Today at 4:50 PM
I have made yet another random shuffle (using python's random module) and the ordering is Lord Lore, Lord Ravenclaw, Yeraennus, and Praetor for the second question.

Our fourth and final question is another one from @McMasterdonia: What will be your key priority as Vice Delegate should you win the election - and how will you strive to satisfy this?

@Lord Ravenclaw, you may begin.
Lord Ravenclaw - Today at 4:52 PM
My key priority will be working on advancing and promoting the WADP - as I've urged Bootsie to do for the last eight months. We broke endorsement records nearly 14 years old during my terms and I want to see us continue to set new records and reach new heights.
This will involve working with the security council and government ministries - communication is key.
Eluvatar - Today at 4:53 PM
@Sodium MacSalterson, Esq. please proceed.
Sodium MacSalterson, Esq. - Today at 4:55 PM
I would focus on promoting the aspects of the government that focus on interaction with the community, such as Communications, Gameside Affairs, and Culture/Entertainment. The forums are not nearly large enough to be fully representative of TNP's large and varied community. This would include focusing on regular schedules for region-wide telegrams and increased interaction between members of the government and the members of the region through the WFE and RMB..
(done)
Eluvatar - Today at 4:55 PM
@Praetor please proceed.
Praetor - Today at 4:57 PM
My key priority will be increasing the security of the region by encouraging and working with the Security Council to increase their endorsement levels. Currently--excluding the Delegate and Vice Delegate--of the top 10 most endorsements in the region 4 of them belong to Security Councillors. I'd like to see this increased drastically as should something happen to TNP it is vital that there are Security Councillors in place to ensure the safety of the region.
Eluvatar - Today at 4:57 PM
If anyone would like to discuss this further, please speak up. Otherwise I will be asking for closing statements momentarily.
At this time I will ask the candidates to give us some closing statements. Remind us of why we should vote for you, and share your thoughts on the debate as a whole and what it says about your candidacy. You all have 2 minutes. Please post your closing statement as a single message.
Sodium MacSalterson, Esq. - Today at 5:00 PM
Though I am relatively new to the world of NS politics, I can promise to be honest, straight-forward, and hardworking in my role as vice delegate. I seek to promote open and active interactions between the community and the government, and the promotion of various cultural activities and events to the region at large to draw in a larger section of the community to the forums.
Eluvatar - Today at 5:01 PM
snaps fingers
Lord Ravenclaw - Today at 5:01 PM
I've got a lot to give The North Pacific with experience in various areas of policy and discipline. I've got a proven track record of reliabiliy and when it comes to supporting The North Pacific I have experience that few can match. I'll happily support whoever is elected Delegate and seek to give them the full benefit of my experience and knowledge as they undertake the very grueling (and often thankless) task of governing The North Pacific.

I'd like to offer my thanks to Eluvatar for organising this, but not for the panic he inspired as I was doing the Administration Security Checks - panicking half way through them as a result of the one miniute ping in this channel was not a pleasant experience. Good luck to the others, even those who have declined to take part, and the other who isn't available.
Praetor - Today at 5:01 PM
I'm not going to say that you should vote for me. I will say that I am an active individual with experience dealing with individuals not in The North Pacific. I am confident that if I am elected that I can improve the security of the region. I appreciate @Eluvatar for holding this debate and the candidates for participating. Take a look in the remaining time before voting concludes at each candidate, ask them any questions that you may have and I'm confident that whoever the RA elects will be able to complete their duties.
Eluvatar - Today at 5:01 PM
Thank you Lord Ravenclaw, Praetor, and Yeraennus for a great debate. My apologies that I was unable to ensure Lord Lore or Romanoffia's participation.

I hope this debate can be of use to us in deciding how to vote.
 
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