Mousebumples
TNPer
I wanted to pull some of the discussion from Discord in here for future (easier) reference:
5:00 PM - Eluvatar - I don't want to say it again in #magicality-city-plaza but I do want to reiterate the relevance of r3n's suggestion of redoing the organization's membership(edited)
5:01 PM - Joshua Ravenclaw - I'll support whatever direction you decide on.
January 12, 2016
11:01 AM - Asta - redoing how?
11:02 AM - Asta - @Mousebumples remember to take your oath as a minister
11:02 AM - Mousebumples - i did, didn't i?
11:02 AM - Mousebumples - i thought i posted it last night
11:02 AM - Joshua Ravenclaw - you did afaik?
11:02 AM - Asta - oh ok
11:02 AM - Asta - nvm ?
11:03 AM - Mousebumples - ? back atcha
11:03 AM - Mousebumples - re: redoing WALL's membership - is it worth making those changes without trying to involve the current parties as is?
11:03 AM - Mousebumples - i.e. work as if it's primarily euro and TNP
11:03 AM - Mousebumples - try to involve balder and IDU
11:03 AM - Asta - I doubt balder wants to work with us
11:03 AM - Asta - (tnp)
11:03 AM - Mousebumples - if euro/TNP work well but the other two are ... not really interested, then revisit
11:04 AM - Joshua Ravenclaw - Albion wants to get into the WA more
11:04 AM - Mousebumples - NES had expressed a willingness to be the balder rep, but i'm not sure how helpful that would be, tbh
11:04 AM - Mousebumples - TEP (under ram, obvs) had expressed interest previously
11:04 AM - Asta - I would probably consider NES as a rep to be detrimental to the whole alliance ?
11:04 AM - Mousebumples - Europe might be interested - i know they're trying to come out of their more isolationist foreign policies
11:05 AM - Mousebumples - lol, some history there i'm unaware of, @Asta
11:05 AM - Mousebumples - ?
11:06 AM - Mousebumples - also, how do i go about getting deputies and the like? TNP governmenet is .... obviously completely new to me
11:08 AM - Joshua Ravenclaw - I think opening an executive staff is the first step
11:08 AM - Joshua Ravenclaw - advertise for staff via the advice for WAVoters program
11:08 AM - Mousebumples - ok
11:09 AM - Eluvatar - NES has at one time or another apparently called most of TNP's most respected figures in foreign relations two-faced
11:09 AM - Eluvatar - I could be exaggerating scuttlebut
11:09 AM - Eluvatar - Haven't been following what NES says very closely ?
11:09 AM - Mousebumples - yeah, that's sorta where i am most of the time
11:09 AM - Mousebumples - i'm not involved in euro FA much, so we don't usually have much reason to chat
11:11 AM - Eluvatar - In any case, if Albion's interested, I think it would be prudent to start with TNP-Euro-Albion and go from there
11:11 AM - Eluvatar - start small, make it work, then consider expansion
11:11 AM - Mousebumples - i need to look at the treaty terms
11:11 AM - Eluvatar - 3 regions might be the minimum workable size
11:11 AM - Mousebumples - we are able to unilaterally eject regions from the WALL treaty?
11:11 AM - Eluvatar - http://forum.thenorthpacific.org/pages/laws/##wall
the home of The North Pacific region of the online game Nationstates
11:11 AM - Mousebumples - thanks
11:11 AM - Eluvatar - We'd have to repeal the alliance and recreate it, I think
11:11 AM - Eluvatar - r3n suggested this with reference to how UIAF did that once
11:12 AM - Eluvatar - bbiab
11:12 AM - Mousebumples - have we been in contact with IDU at all?
11:12 AM - Mousebumples - i know that they only really sent gruen - who was mostly there to serve as a pain in the ass, if you ask me
11:13 AM - Mousebumples - also, i have zero power when it comes to repealing things in europeia, so i don't know if they'd be on board with that plan - no matter how much they might like the idea of albion being involved, but i can start the groundwork there before we make any sudden changes
11:13 AM - Mousebumples - anyhow, while i can see that this might be necessary, i don't know that we've even tried anything else, so jumping straight to "repeal it and start over" doesn't seem like it's a magical fix
11:13 AM - Mousebumples - what's the point in starting over if we don't know how to make it work in the first place?
11:15 AM - Asta - good point
11:15 AM - Asta - on the other hand, I don't think IDU likes us more now than they did before what with voting against their proposal
11:15 AM - Asta - and balder has no fondness for TNP right now (or rather, Rach doesn't like most of us)
11:15 AM - Mousebumples - Rach doesn't like most people, tbh
11:15 AM - Asta - So maybe trying it anew with a more compatible group of regions would be more successful?
11:16 AM - Mousebumples - i mean, we were a compatible group of regions when this started ... 9 or whatever months ago, right?
11:17 AM - Mousebumples - and it didn't work then, so i'd like to spend some time - initially - trying to figure out where things went wrong (and why) and trying to determine how to fix them in the "next incarnation" if we do end up going that route
11:17 AM - Mousebumples - additionally, we should probably look at the treaty language and see what, if anything, needs adjustment moving forward
11:17 AM - Mousebumples - i.e. i'd like to see some sort of "Inactivity clause" added to Section 1 on membership
11:18 AM - Mousebumples - we could remove balder and IDU if they sign off on removal of the other ... but neither is active enough to make that an option in either direction
11:22 AM - Mousebumples - so, a related question ...
11:23 AM - Mousebumples - what if we look to amend the treaty (i.e. add the aforementioned "activity" thing) and give the regions involved the chance to either pass the amendment through their regional legislature or else repeal it entirely, if they'd so prefer?
11:23 AM - Mousebumples - regional legislation is hardly my strong point so having input from others (cough @Asta cough) would be helpful
11:31 AM - Eluvatar - is chopped liver D:
11:31 AM - Mousebumples - sorry, or @Eluvatar ?
11:31 AM - Eluvatar - ?
11:31 AM - Mousebumples - i just figured with @Asta as FA it might be more her territory
11:32 AM - Eluvatar - As an aside, I'm now a little amused that the preamble of WALL's treaty references "prolonged friendship"
11:32 AM - Eluvatar - not profound, not deep, but "prolonged"
11:32 AM - Mousebumples - lol, valid point
11:32 AM - Eluvatar - nods
11:33 AM - Eluvatar - > e) A region may have their signatory status removed by a unanimous vote among all other Ambassadors to the WALL except for the Ambassador from that region.
11:33 AM - Eluvatar - redundant language is redundant
11:33 AM - Eluvatar - but that' s fine(edited)
11:33 AM - Mousebumples - the issue here is that while we could vote to remove balder or IDU (or both) ... neither is active enough to vote, i wouldn't think
11:33 AM - Mousebumples - so we wouldn't have a unanimous vote because we'd only have 2 of 3 votes on that removal, i'd think
11:38 AM - Eluvatar - Well, one or the other might be persuaded to withdraw
11:38 AM - Eluvatar - I don't know.
11:39 AM - Mousebumples - i'm not tht familiar with IDU (from a governing perspective) so i can't really say there, but i can certainly look into both in the near future
11:40 AM - Mousebumples - i.e. send out a generic "What are your thoughts on WALL? Do you think it's worth trying to revitalize, continue, etc. ?" TG to delegates and see what response i get
11:40 AM - Eluvatar - That could work! ?
11:40 AM - Mousebumples - anyhow, i've been putting off clearing my driveway of the snow from last night, so i need to go take care of that, i suppose
11:40 AM - Eluvatar - yikes
11:40 AM - Mousebumples - thanks for the feedback thus far, guys ?
11:41 AM - Mousebumples - eh, it wasn't much, but there's enough drifts that i almost got caught heading out to an appointment this morning
11:41 AM - Mousebumples - so cleaning it up for tomorrow/in case of future snow seems smart
11:41 AM - Mousebumples - waves
11:53 AM - Asta - That could make sense, mouse
11:53 AM - Asta - the pass/repeal option
12:10 PM - Mousebumples - ?
12:11 PM - Mousebumples - i'm going to c/p this log into WA Affairs HQ on TNP so it's easy to reference later
12:12 PM - Joshua Ravenclaw - <nods>
12:26 PM - Asta - assuming you can c/p >_>
12:26 PM - Mousebumples - you can, if memory serves
12:26 PM - Mousebumples - i swear i've saved logs from here previously
12:26 PM - Mousebumples - it would be a bitch on my phone, but the desktop app seems to work ok
12:27 PM - Eluvatar - huh
12:46 PM - Joshua Ravenclaw - I do have some trouble with formatting
9:12 PM - Mousebumples - fyi, talked with r3n some
9:13 PM - Mousebumples - he advises against repealing and trying to repass WALL at this time as it would require a 2/3's vote in TNP to pass again, and he doesn't think the support would be there unless we "fix things" first
9:13 PM - Mousebumples - if there's no visible benefit, he doesn't think we'd be able to re-establish it
9:13 PM - Mousebumples - he recommended that we basically act as if it's just TNP and Euro - for now - and try to improve things between our two regions
9:13 PM - Mousebumples - build up the TNP WA staff, and work on Information for WA Voters and the like
I hope this is not creeping discordianism brought on by Raven's Delegacy xD Don't make the old farts relocate!