WA 101: Lesson Two

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NatSovs are smart. IntFeds are power-hungry lunatics.

Oh, wait, you wanted more of an explanation than that? :P

Basically, the battle over National Sovereignty versus International Federalism is two sides of the same coin. The General Assembly (as the WA, and UN before it) exists to remove National Sovereignty. However, there are different extents to which such national powers can be affected. Additionally, most NatSov'ers believe that there are at least some topics that are appropriate for international legislation. (The details vary, depending on which NatSov'er you're talking to, but I - generally - feel that health care and education and many human rights resolutions are among those that have an international component.)

NatSov authors are generally fans of repeals - especially of what they view as overreaching legislation - and may pass "blockers" to prevent additionally interference from the GA on particular topics. Notable blockers include "Nuclear Arms Possession Act" and "Clean Prostitute Act."

NatSov representatives on the NS forums are often fond of finding "loopholes" within legislation that they can exploit to evade compliance. This often requires very careful wording of proposals on the part of the author in order to prevent especially damaging loopholes. (Many successful repeals are built upon problematic loopholes within a resolution's text.)

International Federalists believe that because the GA has the power to remove national sovereignty from WA member nations, it should do so wherever and whenever it can. Many of the "One Size Fits None" proposals that I mentioned above have IntFed leanings. (For the record, good IntFed legislation exists. Just to clarify. *nods*)

My personal opinion is that most players - and authors - start off as being IntFed. (I know I was an true blue IntFed back in the day.) As they learn more about legislation and further develop their nation, ambassadors, etc., they may develop more NatSov leanings. Of course, some more experienced players become even more entrenched in the IntFed philosophy, but I suppose we can't all be perfect, right? ;)

In all seriousness, I feel that being able to honestly and frankly evaluate GA legislation is based on the ability to think beyond how a proposed resolution will affect more than just your own nation. The NationStates multi-verse is composed of many different sorts of nations - different cultures, different tech levels, and even different species. (There's one nation of sapient bears that posts frequently on the NS forums, for example.)

For more reading on this topic, you may want to peruse this thread on the NS forums. Knootoss (the OP) is a notable National Sovereigntist. This post (within the same thread), is from Sionis Prioratus, who is a known International Federalist - and one of the notable authors that I admire and respect with such staunch IntFed bonafides.

NationStates =/= Real Life

When it comes time to read (or draft) a proposal, try to think of other nations you may have run into. While there are some nations who enjoy Role Playing extreme nations who don't have many resolutions at all that apply to them, most variations can be covered with a well-written proposal. And, of course, it's possible that many of these issues won't be discovered until your proposal is in the drafting phase on the NS forums.

For example, when I was drafting my Essential Medication Act, the original draft was pretty much a blatant Medical Marijuana proposal ... until someone asked why I was legalizing medical marijuana use when marijuana may be lethal to some cultures/species. That made me think outside the box and reorient the entire proposal. It's now much more general - and therefore, I think, more generally applicable to all WA member nations.

Reasonable Nation Theory
This is a commonly held standard for judging a proposal within the GA framework, as discussed above.

Throughout the long history of NationStates (and the UN/WA/GA), there have always been nations that wanted to make noise by saying, "This resolution doesn't apply to me because of X." Some of those concerns may be valid - i.e. my nation has outlawed cars, so your Automobile Manufacturing resolution has no effect on us. Other concerns might be a bit ... out there. For example, I believe there was a nation who stated that their nation did not know how to read during the first debate/passage of my Universal Library Coalition proposal.

This isn't to say that you should change your RP for your nation to magically fit with whatever proposal is being debated. If you have an issue with how the proposal is worded - and you feel that it is too narrow or focused - certainly say so. However, repeatedly claiming that a resolution "doesn't apply to your nation" because of increasingly convoluted rationales is generally considered poor form and rude to the proposal authors you're interacting with.

Of course, this isn't to be confused with what you think a reasonable nation should do. In a recent GA debate, it was argued that we didn't need a "Child Emancipation" law because nations should be using a "threshold of majority" (versus a set age of majority - i.e. 16 or 18). As all nations were (theoretically) using a "threshold of majority," 14 year olds would become adults - internationally - if they had crossed this magical threshold.

This was an instance of an individual poster imposing his beliefs of what a "reasonable nation should do," which should not be confused with the aforementioned Reasonable Nation Theory.

What are WA puppets, and why would you use one?
As described above, there are some nations that don't like to have the stat changes of the WA to affect their main nation ... and other nations that don't like having to comply with WA resolutions when they Role Play.

Of course, there are other nations that have had their main nation ejected from the WA for rule-breaking (more on that to come in a subsequent lesson), so they can't be in the WA with their main nation. Others engage in a lot of the R/D game and designate one puppet for WA submissions. (As you only need 2 endorsements for submission, it doesn't take long to do a quick WA switch for submission and then switch your WA back to a different puppet for R/D.) These nations often have "WA Mission" tacked onto the end of their nation name, or something similar. Actual examples include Mahaj WA Seat and Unibotian WA Mission.

NAPA, FoMA, RoAA ... Huh?
There are lots of pieces of legislation that have been passed in the GA. And, because the regular GA proposal authors often refer back to a lot of the same pieces of legislation ... we get lazy and like to use Acronyms.

NAPA = Nuclear Arms Possession Act
FoMA = Freedom of Marriage Act
RoAA = Reduction of Abortion Act

... You get the point.

Sometimes this is more confusing than helpful. For example, I was recently having a discussion with a fellow ambassador about wanting to repeal CPA. I meant Child Protection Act. He thought I meant Clean Prostitute Act. Very different pieces of legislation, and only one of those was on my To Repeal list. Definitely something to be careful about when using acronyms.

Don't be afraid to ask someone to spell out what IDE or ULC or EMA or ... whatever. We're lazy, but we're not mean. (... usually ;) ) [for the record: IDE = International Drug Education, ULC = Universal Library Coalition, EMA = Essential Medication Act]

Sometimes, however, the acronyms are for committees - and not for resolution names. The WHA (World Health Authority) is probably the most common committee, and it's appeared in probably a half-dozen or so resolutions, in some form or another.



A lot of these questions - and those for future assignments - won't necessarily have "right" or "wrong" answers. One of my goals for this class is to really make you guys think about the General Assembly and what it all involves. As such, there will be a lot of short-answer questions that are more about the content and information than being "right" or "wrong."

For example, the Child Protection Act does not criminalize child abuse. While children have the right to not be abused (and to have claims of abuse investigated), no crime has necessarily been committed by those who abuse children. (for the record, this resolution is one that I repealed for this very reason)
  • How could you possibly reword that clause/phrase to close the loophole? Alternatively, what phrasing could you add to the resolution text to close that loophole?
This last "task" is meant as practice - to better prepare you to close the inevitable loopholes that will emerge in your first proposal draft. We haven't covered the GA rules yet, but it's illegal to submit a proposal that is largely the text of someone else's proposal (or UN resolution), as that is considered plagiarism.
 
Thanks for posting this Mouse. It was a very helpful read :) .

Especially the part about the Reasonable Nation Theory. I've seen the term thrown around a few times, but I didn't have a good understanding of what it means.
 
Glad to help explain that. There were a lot of really helpful UN/GA-related pieces on the old (and now lost) NSwiki. I think Kenny wrote a lot of those, but I'll admit I was more interested in the information rather than in the byline when I read them years and years ago. :P (so .... I guess that's a roundabout way of apologizing for anyone that I might not be properly crediting ... )

For the record, Lesson Three jumps into the rules, so if there are other terminology or jargon related questions before we get into the "meat" of things, now would be the time for that. I think I've got most of the Big Things covered, but it's more than likely that there are plenty of phrases that I'm just so used to seeing that I didn't think to include them here ... *whistles innocently*
 
A lot of the NSwiki stuff predates OMGTKK, and was written by Mikitivity and Frisbeeteria, but OMGTKK certainly did contribute a lot later on, and was virtually singlehandedly responsible for the awesome timeline being faithfullly maintained.

Assignment 2

Where do you fall on the NatSov/IntFed spectrum? Do you associate yourself more with one group than another? Why/How? (i.e. please elaborate)
I believe the WA should legislate on truly international matters, such as trade, and shouldn't on domestic matters, like abortion.

However, I don't believe NatSov or IntFed are useful terms that have any meaning any longer, so I would place myself in the octarine section of that particular spectrum.
 
Acoustic Siberia:
A lot of the NSwiki stuff predates OMGTKK, and was written by Mikitivity and Frisbeeteria, but OMGTKK certainly did contribute a lot later on, and was virtually singlehandedly responsible for the awesome timeline being faithfullly maintained.

Assignment 2

Where do you fall on the NatSov/IntFed spectrum? Do you associate yourself more with one group than another? Why/How? (i.e. please elaborate)
I believe the WA should legislate on truly international matters, such as trade, and shouldn't on domestic matters, like abortion.

However, I don't believe NatSov or IntFed are useful terms that have any meaning any longer, so I would place myself in the octarine section of that particular spectrum.
Ah octarine, the color of magic.
 
I believe the WA should legislate on truly international matters, such as trade, and shouldn't on domestic matters, like abortion.
I would say the bolded part of Gruen's response describes my own position. However, this statement alone is quite broad. Part of the distinction is what each person considers "international" and what "domestic matters".

For instance, Gruen mentioned abortion. Unlike him, I consider this an international matter, as a women's right issue. Several aspects of trade are an international matter, though there are also still plenty of regulation areas that I would consider domestic.

Overall, while I do recognize that there are matters that are truly international and warrant WA legislation, I imagine I tend to classify more matters as domestic than others do.

Moreover, there is a broad spectrum in terms of how exactly the WA is to legislate on those international matters. I tend to prefer to leave discretion and implementation details to the nations as much as possible.

Based on these, I would say I lean more towards the NatSov side.

However, I don't believe NatSov or IntFed are useful terms that have any meaning any longer, so I would place myself in the octarine section of that particular spectrum.
To an extent I would agree with Gruen.

As a newcomer to the GA, I can't tell how important or useful these terms have been in the past. But from the little I have observed nowadays, my impression is that the distinction is overemphasized. Also, it's hardly a true dichotomy, with many members not falling clearly on either side.

It reminds me a little of the R/D separation in gameplay. People try to put classify everything and everyone as either raider or defender. But in reality it's not a black and white world, and there are many shades of grey in between the two extremes. Moreover, there are so many other aspects to gameplay that are simply outside of the R/D axis.
 
r3naissanc3r:
Based on these, I would say I lean more towards the NatSov side.
Based on your trenchant support of probably the least sovereignty friendly resolution in history, I would say not.

But the vagueness of both of your and my responses further show that the terms are basically meaningless. Describing oneself as "a NatSov" - or even an adorably marvellous NatSov - means absolute jackshit. "NatSov" and "IntFed" are relics of a different age and no longer have any meaning in the WA.
 
Acoustic Siberia:
Based on your trenchant support of probably the least sovereignty friendly resolution in history, I would say not.
On a matter of universal rights, intervention is warranted. But sure, you can isolate that one and ignore all previous resolutions I have voted on.
 
r3naissanc3r:
On a matter of universal rights, intervention is warranted.
What "universal rights"? If it's bodily self-determination, then it's somewhat confusing that this comes following a lecture extolling the virtues of the Clean Prostitute Act, a resolution that prevents the WA from legalising prostitution, and the Essential Medication Act, which bends over backwards to make clear it is not legalising recreational drug use. But there's no difference in the basic moral question involved in each case: having an abortion or engaging in prostitution or taking recreational drugs is in each case about an individual exercising choice over their own body.

A universal right can't be universal if it's only applied when it's politically convenient. Unless you really are in favour of resolutions forcing all nations to legalise euthanasia, prostitution, and heroin, at which point it's time to ask again just what the hell being a NatSov is even supposed to be about.
 
Mousebumples:
Glad to help explain that. There were a lot of really helpful UN/GA-related pieces on the old (and now lost) NSwiki. I think Kenny wrote a lot of those, but I'll admit I was more interested in the information rather than in the byline when I read them years and years ago. :P (so .... I guess that's a roundabout way of apologizing for anyone that I might not be properly crediting ... )
Well, if I recall correctly, the NSwiki article on Reasonable Nation Theory mostly just quoted other players who'd already worked up good summations on it...and some of the other stuff I was accused of writing just to incorporate my personal bias into an "official" game wiki -- not on NatSov (an overly cutesy term I happen to dislike, in favor of the more eloquent descriptor "sovereigntist"), but more on uni/G-R's haphazard attempts to remake WA conventions to fit their eccentric play styles.

Kelssek has a really good primer on RNT in his guide to the WA, and there are also some more recent WA-forum guides on blockers and repeals that may be useful reference material too.


EDIT: as to the dispute over "NatSov" and whether it's an obsolete concept...no comment, except to say that famous historical "NatSovers" did make exceptions for human rights, but that was mostly to prevent egregious cases like genocide, torture, and abusive treatment of diplomats and POWs. Things like abortion and gay marriage were not part of that -- though there was a notable rift within the NatSov movement over abortion in the UN. The fact that the WA of today (including many self-described "NatSovers") is so irrevocably wedded to resolutions like RF and FOMA really crosses the line in terms of international human rights concerns that trump sovereigntism.
 
boricuastan:
The fact that the WA of today (including many self-described "NatSovers") is so irrevocably wedded to resolutions like RF and FOMA really crosses the line in terms of international human rights concerns that trump sovereigntism.
Although it's not really surprising given the sophisticated philosophy of the "Modern NatSov" manifesto:
You SHOULD support resolutions on the issues that are important to you.
Can anyone remember Hack's line about ideological thuggery...?

Anyway, I haven't finished the second half of the assignment.
Pick a passed GA or UN resolution. (NS forum thread, NS forum thread, sorted by category, NS GA Resolution list, and NS UN Resolutions list) Find a loophole within this resolution that could be exploited. How could your nation (or another nation) use this loophole to evade compliance with this resolution?
WA Resolution #302, "Individual Working Freedoms" mandates:
the removal of working time regulations that serve only to reduce individual liberty and that do not serve any other purpose
This contains a loophole that can be exploited to ensure nations can retain working time regulations if they so wish. For example, if they are concerned that employers hold the power to enforce excessive work schedules, they can demonstrate that their regulations do serve another purpose besides reducing individual liberty: they guarantee worker safety, they prevent abusive working practice, they ensure moral dignity, etc. Indeed, "any working time regulation, while it may reduce individual liberty on an abstract level, also serves to protect the worker from abuse by an employer forcing them to work more than they desire": I couldn't have stated it more eloquently myself.
How could you possibly reword that clause/phrase to close the loophole? Alternatively, what phrasing could you add to the resolution text to close that loophole?
I wouldn't. It was purposely written that way as a blocker (something national sovereigntists used to favour) to allow nations more or less complete autonomy in this particular area of inherently domestic legislation.
 
Where do you fall on the NatSov/IntFed spectrum? Do you associate yourself more with one group than another? Why/How? (i.e. please elaborate)
I think I consider myself more of a IntFed because it seems to tie in with more of my views.

Pick a passed GA or UN resolution. (NS forum thread, NS forum thread, sorted by category, NS GA Resolution list, and NS UN Resolutions list) Find a loophole within this resolution that could be exploited. How could your nation (or another nation) use this loophole to evade compliance with this resolution?
I am not really good at looking for loopholes. I have looked through many resolutions, but couldn't find loopholes in any of them.
 
Thunderboy:
Where do you fall on the NatSov/IntFed spectrum? Do you associate yourself more with one group than another? Why/How? (i.e. please elaborate)
I think I consider myself more of a IntFed because it seems to tie in with more of my views.

Pick a passed GA or UN resolution. (NS forum thread, NS forum thread, sorted by category, NS GA Resolution list, and NS UN Resolutions list) Find a loophole within this resolution that could be exploited. How could your nation (or another nation) use this loophole to evade compliance with this resolution?
I am not really good at looking for loopholes. I have looked through many resolutions, but couldn't find loopholes in any of them.
Sorry, the WA 101 is over a year old.
 
Thunderboy:
Where do you fall on the NatSov/IntFed spectrum? Do you associate yourself more with one group than another? Why/How? (i.e. please elaborate)
I think I consider myself more of a IntFed because it seems to tie in with more of my views.

Pick a passed GA or UN resolution. (NS forum thread, NS forum thread, sorted by category, NS GA Resolution list, and NS UN Resolutions list) Find a loophole within this resolution that could be exploited. How could your nation (or another nation) use this loophole to evade compliance with this resolution?
I am not really good at looking for loopholes. I have looked through many resolutions, but couldn't find loopholes in any of them.
Finding loopholes can take some practice ... and it might be a skill that's tsuited for those "nasty NatSovs" (like myself ^_^ ) that are looking for ways to escape having to comply with a given resolution that we disagree with. :P
 
Where do you fall on the NatSov/IntFed spectrum? Do you associate yourself more with one group than another? Why/How? (i.e. please elaborate)

As I see it, a NatSov person is one who primarily sees the WA as negatively affecting their country, while an IntFed person is one who primarily sees the WA as improving other nations. I believe that it should be the goal and duty of the WA to improve the nations within it, so in that way I am on the IntFed side, but I also think that a large dose of skepticism should be attached to any attempt to do so. Coercive enforced actions often seem appealing, but they are very dangerous and hard to use well. In that way, I am on the NatSov side.

Pick a passed GA or UN resolution. (NS forum thread, NS forum thread, sorted by category, NS GA Resolution list, and NS UN Resolutions list) Find a loophole within this resolution that could be exploited. How could your nation (or another nation) use this loophole to evade compliance with this resolution?

Stock Exchanges And Foreign Investment: This resolution neglects to classify bond derivatives as trading derivatives. It also leaves a loophole in its bond definition such that loans without a specified repayal date, such as mortgages, are not covered. Thus, by creating clever financial instruments, a nation could completely avoid the regulation.

How could you possibly reword that clause/phrase to close the loophole? Alternatively, what phrasing could you add to the resolution text to close that loophole?
I would define the type of transactions which this regulation covers in terms of the observed features of the products being bought and sold, rather than defining a few select categories. Rather, I would define the purview of the law to cover all trading of standardized financial instruments, regardless of the specific type of financial instrument.
 
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