The Armed Flag Bill
- Thread starter Alunya
- Start date
- TNP Nation
- McMasterdonia
Not a bad idea. Some issues, it can be used to make people believe the nation is an official government representative (in-game), even if they do not claim to be an official representative. This is more likely to become an issue with unendorsement campaigns - as it has done in the past!
Grosseschnauzer
TNPer
I'm not sure that the flag or the seal of TNP should be used for non-governmental purposes (i.e., NPA or diplomatic representation.)
Tomb
TNPer
I have two views and one compromise on this idea/proposal.
First of all, it does bring a sense of unity and nationality if we have a national symbol that everyone can and may use.
This even adds to the cultural aspect of our region.
However, like McMasterdonia and Grosseschnauzer have both posted, I do not think that we should use the arms or seal of the government like that. The arms and seal need to only be used for government representation when needed.
So therefore, I believe that the base of your thoughts are in the right place, but I do not support the fact that we implement this using TNP flag or seal.
What I do suggest is maybe voting on a national symbol, color, or design that can be used by the members of the region that wish to reflect TNP culture in their flags and non-governmental purposes. We can make sure to point out that this symbol does not represent TNP government, but only is an aspect of our rich culture that member nations can reflect.
These are my thoughts on this topic for the moment.
Thanks,
Tomb
First of all, it does bring a sense of unity and nationality if we have a national symbol that everyone can and may use.
This even adds to the cultural aspect of our region.
However, like McMasterdonia and Grosseschnauzer have both posted, I do not think that we should use the arms or seal of the government like that. The arms and seal need to only be used for government representation when needed.
So therefore, I believe that the base of your thoughts are in the right place, but I do not support the fact that we implement this using TNP flag or seal.
What I do suggest is maybe voting on a national symbol, color, or design that can be used by the members of the region that wish to reflect TNP culture in their flags and non-governmental purposes. We can make sure to point out that this symbol does not represent TNP government, but only is an aspect of our rich culture that member nations can reflect.
These are my thoughts on this topic for the moment.
Thanks,
Tomb
I think that sounds like a good compromise, Tomb. It would let people demonstrate their affiliation with the region without the perception that they might be speaking for the government, and the associated risk of impersonation that arises from that.
Let me clarify that this arose from a discussion about this very topic on the Regional Message Board (RMB) here and here. My own opinion corresponds most closely with Grosseschnauzer with the exception that I recognize that the Court of The North Pacific already permits a nation to fly the flag of The North Pacific in lieu of their own.
I am very much for The North Pacific protecting (and furthering) its brand. However, I also advocate for the rights of members to free speech (which includes the designs of their flags as they see fit) and democratic principles (to decide the matter by voting). This is why I have introduced a bill that I personally oppose. It deserves a fair hearing, and I'm not one to stand in the way of that.
I like The Democratic Republic of Tomb's idea of an alternative emblem, symbol, or seal associated with The North Pacific that may be used in national flags instead of the Arms of The North Pacific. This would satisfy the desire (of others) to have some such identifying symbol in their national flags while preserving the sanctity of the official Arms.
I would suggest that the Executive officers of The North Pacific consider hosting a charrette for the design of such an alternative symbol for this very purpose. In the interim, I am willing to let this bill remain idle until such a charrette is concluded; at that time, I would be very willing to amend this bill to permit the use of the alternative symbol in national flags while preserving the status quo concerning the Arms of The North Pacific. But if such a charrette is not undertaken, then I reserve the right to introduce this bill formally so that a vote for or against may be held.
As the bill presently stands, I shall vote against it if it is brought to a vote. Please don't let my personal prejudices influence your vote however.
>^,,^<
Alunya
I am very much for The North Pacific protecting (and furthering) its brand. However, I also advocate for the rights of members to free speech (which includes the designs of their flags as they see fit) and democratic principles (to decide the matter by voting). This is why I have introduced a bill that I personally oppose. It deserves a fair hearing, and I'm not one to stand in the way of that.
I like The Democratic Republic of Tomb's idea of an alternative emblem, symbol, or seal associated with The North Pacific that may be used in national flags instead of the Arms of The North Pacific. This would satisfy the desire (of others) to have some such identifying symbol in their national flags while preserving the sanctity of the official Arms.
I would suggest that the Executive officers of The North Pacific consider hosting a charrette for the design of such an alternative symbol for this very purpose. In the interim, I am willing to let this bill remain idle until such a charrette is concluded; at that time, I would be very willing to amend this bill to permit the use of the alternative symbol in national flags while preserving the status quo concerning the Arms of The North Pacific. But if such a charrette is not undertaken, then I reserve the right to introduce this bill formally so that a vote for or against may be held.
As the bill presently stands, I shall vote against it if it is brought to a vote. Please don't let my personal prejudices influence your vote however.
>^,,^<
Alunya
- Discord
- COE#7110
I would support either the arms themselves, or an alternative symbol being used in national flags. If this goes to a vote, I'll vote aye.
I would also support either Alunya's original, or Tomb's compromise proposal.
If people are concerned about the arms being used in a deceptive manner, I'd suggest expanding the definition of fraud to cover such incidents.
Alunya, I would recommend removing the renumbering clauses from the bill. Thanks to COE's recent "forget about numbers" bill, they are no longer necessary - and in fact they are arguably illegal.
If people are concerned about the arms being used in a deceptive manner, I'd suggest expanding the definition of fraud to cover such incidents.
Alunya, I would recommend removing the renumbering clauses from the bill. Thanks to COE's recent "forget about numbers" bill, they are no longer necessary - and in fact they are arguably illegal.
Romanoffia
Garde à l'eau!
You might want to put a clause in there that specifically prohibits the use of the flag and coat of arms to misrepresent one's self as an official or agency or agent of the government.
As an addendum on a passing thought, we could also have a specific emblem to add to nation's flags to indicate that they serve in some kind of official capacity.
As an addendum on a passing thought, we could also have a specific emblem to add to nation's flags to indicate that they serve in some kind of official capacity.
Grosseschnauzer
TNPer
Perhaps the way out of this is to allow a Regional Emblem (which is a form of a flag) that can be used for non-regional governmental purposes, such as being adopted as in game national flag; one way to do that might be a emblem that is on a solid TNP shade of blue with the coat of arms in order to distinguish it from the official regional flag; or to have some form of simplified coat of arms to use on such a background. But there needs to be a prohibition added to the Legal Code with respect to using the official regional flag unless specifically permitted as a representative of the regional government, and a similar one as to use of the coat of arms; if we don't come up with a variation, then the government would have to specifically permit the use of the coast of arms apart from the flag.