Trieze_Dreizehn's RA application

Flemingovia

Flemingovia

TNPer
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On October 29th 2013 Trieze_Dreizehn Applied to join the Regional Assembly. His application was denied by the the then vice Delegate, Sanctaria. The denial was put to vote in the Regional Assembly , and was clearly upheld by 29 to 9, with 16 abstentions.

On 24th January 2014, just 12 weeks later, Trieze_Dreizehn again made application to the RA – no doubt taking advantage of a change in Vice delegate. This time Democratic Donkeys allowed the application, stating “I do not view Trieze_Dreizehn as a security threat, and my check is the one that counts, not my predecessor's.”

This overturns the decision of the previous VD, it is true. But it also overturns the clearly stated decision of the Regional Assembly as a whole, and I think this two very dangerous precedents.

Firstly, it allows one individual to overturn the sovereign expressed will of the Regional Assembly.

Second, it sends the message that if you are denied RA membership, just wait a few weeks and knock on the door again. Keep knocking often enough and you will probably get in.

DD was probably in his rights to do this; but I think even he must recognise the bad precedent this sets. I would like to hear the opinion of the RA on this matter, especially since another applicant to the RA has been denied membership.

Please note I am making no value judgement on Douria’s application or his character. It is the process and respect for the decision of the Regional Assembly that I am concerned with.

I would not like to see this happen again.
 
I think DD's acceptance of Douria was illegal. The law we passed clearly stated that it is the *applicant* that is rejected, and not the *application*. I believe it was intended by the RA when the law was passed that rejected applicants would not be permitted to enter the Regional Assembly, no matter when or how many times they applied.
 
Crushing Our Enemies:
I think DD's acceptance of Douria was illegal. The law we passed clearly stated that it is the *applicant* that is rejected, and not the *application*. I believe it was intended by the RA when the law was passed that rejected applicants would not be permitted to enter the Regional Assembly, no matter when or how many times they applied.
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An interesting distinction, and one that had not occurred to me before.

Either way, I think DD's decision ought to be subject to RA review.
 
I believe DD actions were acceptable in this situation. I do believe that this should not happen again and the courts should make a law to prevent it. If an applicant is denied, it is for a very good reason and the VD should not have the authority to override the decision of the RA as a whole. This is the system of checks and balances and for TNP to strive we must clear up all the semantics. So me being a Chief Judge, I will work with my fellow justices to help construct a bill that will better the TNP people and keep the RA members first before all other government officials; because the government officials are here to help their citizens. Very good observation Flem.
 
I believe DD actions were acceptable in this situation. I do believe that this should not happen again and the courts should make a law to prevent it.
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those two statements are entirely contradictory. of DD's actions were acceptable, then there is no reason to prevent it happening again.
 
flemingovia:
I believe DD actions were acceptable in this situation. I do believe that this should not happen again and the courts should make a law to prevent it.
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those two statements are entirely contradictory. of DD's actions were acceptable, then there is no reason to prevent it happening again.
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Well in this situation, his actions were acceptable; but that doesn't mean it should happen again. I mean there were no laws preventing it so DD had to right to accept the application. But in the near future we should create a law to prevent because it is an unjust in our system and it should be corrected.
 
I'll quote myself form the other thread:
The earlier decision by the RA was to uphold Sanctaria's original stance that I was a security risk, it was not a decision that I myself was a security risk(which is a distinction that is not without import).

The burden of proof for that would've been much higher, and I doubt highly that the decision would've been similar in that case(and I am fairly certain there would be in a different result now, given that I'm not only a part of Osiris's legislature but they elected me their speaker). Regardless, as it stands now, many things have changed, and it's perfectly reasonable to assume that whatever security risk Sanct thought he saw no longer applies.

The language, "security threat" indicates a certain malleability. It's a phrase that's entirely dependent on circumstances. Security threats are not forever.

To put another point out there, folks who have been denied for other reasons have in the past reapplied and found a home here. I see no difference in our current circumstances.
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Leekem, given that you've obviously made up your mind about this issue, are you prepared to recuse yourself from the pending request for review of Treize_Dreizehn's status in the RA?
 
Crushing Our Enemies:
Leekem, given that you've obviously made up your mind about this issue, are you prepared to recuse yourself from the pending request for review of Treize_Dreizehn's status in the RA?
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Yeah I am COE and I will.
 
Crushing Our Enemies:
I think DD's acceptance of Douria was illegal. The law we passed clearly stated that it is the *applicant* that is rejected, and not the *application*. I believe it was intended by the RA when the law was passed that rejected applicants would not be permitted to enter the Regional Assembly, no matter when or how many times they applied.
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:agree:
 
mcmasterdonia:
Crushing Our Enemies:
I think DD's acceptance of Douria was illegal. The law we passed clearly stated that it is the *applicant* that is rejected, and not the *application*. I believe it was intended by the RA when the law was passed that rejected applicants would not be permitted to enter the Regional Assembly, no matter when or how many times they applied.
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:agree:
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Exactly. It shouldn't be up to one person to thwart the RA's prior judgment. Once should be enough, particularly when you take into account the majority by which he was declined membership.

If one is allowed to apply as many times as possible, I still don't think DD did the right thing. As far as I'm concerned, the default response of DD should have been "no" and then the RA should have decided the matter again.
 
Crushing Our Enemies:
I think DD's acceptance of Douria was illegal. The law we passed clearly stated that it is the *applicant* that is rejected, and not the *application*. I believe it was intended by the RA when the law was passed that rejected applicants would not be permitted to enter the Regional Assembly, no matter when or how many times they applied.
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:agree: too. I think there is enough concern expressed for review. the questions are how, by whom, and under what legal authority?

The RA gets involved when the Vice Delegate rejects a RA application, but I do not see any basis for the RA getting involved when the Vice delegate accepts one.
 
I can't think of anyone who has standing in this case. Except me(and even then only maybe), and I'm not asking for a review.

I think, if you feel strongly enough about this, you ought to close what you see as a loophole. Other than that, I'm already here, and contributing substantively... I don't see much good being done by pursuing the issue(but of course, I'm a bit biased).
 
Since this affects the membership of the RA and the security of the region, I would accept (as a justice) the argument that any member of the Regional Assembly has standing in calling for a review.
 
Yes, I have been following that thread. And by following, I mean watching as absolutely nothing happens with it. Nice to see our omniscient Justice not only did not realize there was already a request for review filed, but also posted a thread about it in the RA. Just plain odd.
 
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