Constitutional Amendment Pertaining to "Duality"

[Romanoffia]

I have a simple law that will help prevent the influence of TNP from being controlled by other regions via the 'duality' theory:

As an addition to the legal code (and possible constitutional amendment):

"All individuals who hold elected public office in The North Pacific shall be required to maintain and keep a WA nation in The North Pacific, and that WA nation shall be their main Nation for Governmental Purposes and Forum Purposes. No nation or individual elected to office in The North Pacific shall control, direct, or otherwise command, control nor influence any World Assembly Nations which is not their WA nation of record in TNP, and residing in TNP. "

Discuss.

 

[schweizweld]

This sounds like a good idea. In real life, some people with dual citizenship have to renounce one of them before running for office in the country that they live in.

 

[Cormac]

This only prevents TNP from being controlled by active R/Ders. I'm not saying I'm necessarily opposed, and perhaps some prevention measure is better than none, but...

To use a recent example, had this measure been enacted in Osiris, Douria would have had no problem with maintaining a WA nation in Osiris. It had no bearing on what he does in the game, because he didn't like R/D. It still would have resulted in a coup. That's something you have to consider -- not everyone who means to manipulate TNP, or otherwise do it harm, will be an active R/Der. There are much more serious threats from outside mainstream R/D, and anyone who wants to truly manipulate the region or overthrow its government isn't going to have a problem making a WA commitment here.

 

[Sanctaria]

This is illegal as it goes against Section 3 of the Bill of Rights.

You'll have to amend that to pass this.

 

[Funkadelia]

The only thing I am going to say about this is that if it is passed, I shudder to think of how little activity we may see in The North Pacific.

 

[Romanoffia]

Ammended:

Constitutional Amendment:

"All individuals who hold elected public office in The North Pacific shall be required to maintain and keep a WA nation in The North Pacific, and that WA nation shall be their main Nation for Governmental Purposes and Forum Purposes. No nation or individual elected to office in The North Pacific shall control, direct, or otherwise command, control nor influence any World Assembly Nations which is not their WA nation of record in TNP, and residing in TNP. All articles of the Constitution related to this amendment are hereby amended by the passage of this amendment.

Many thanks to Sact, Bel, Chas and funk for pointing out how this should be approached.

 

[SillyString]

This would prevent any active, committed, loyal NPAer from serving in government - and prevent the Minister of Defense from serving in the NPA.

 

[Funkadelia]

This is must be Bill of Rights Amendment, not a Constitutional amendment.

EDIT: Relevant section:

3. Participation in the governmental authorities of the region is voluntary. Participation in the World Assembly shall not be a condition of participation in the governmental authorities of the region.

 

[Romanoffia]

This would prevent any active, committed, loyal NPAer from serving in government - and prevent the Minister of Defense from serving in the NPA.

Then present an amendment to correct that conflict.

 

[Blue Wolf II]

Uh, why? You're the one who came up with this bill, Roman, Asta's just pointing out the legal conundrums that it would create.

 

[Funkadelia]

This is must be Bill of Rights Amendment, not a Constitutional amendment.

EDIT: Relevant section:

3. Participation in the governmental authorities of the region is voluntary. Participation in the World Assembly shall not be a condition of participation in the governmental authorities of the region.

You still have not addressed these concerns.

 

[Romanoffia]

Uh, why? You're the one who came up with this bill, Roman, Asta's just pointing out the legal conundrums that it would create.

I know it produces legal conundrums. That is what the law and constitution are all about. No one, perhaps other than me and a few others, realize that a change in the law or constitution has more reach than just what the legislation implies.

This is must be Bill of Rights Amendment, not a Constitutional amendment.

EDIT: Relevant section:

3. Participation in the governmental authorities of the region is voluntary. Participation in the World Assembly shall not be a condition of participation in the governmental authorities of the region.

You still have not addressed these concerns.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Gatesville says this and yet Gatesville uses the WA as a tool to defeat Gatesville and no one sees the joke.

Funny how this issue touches a nerve with some people. I mean, why try to attain such a high position in multiple regions? Perhaps we should just pull back the veil and request a game rule change that allows people to have multiple WA nations and just have done with it?

(Just presenting an argument to get people thinking. I neither endorse nor disparage any opinions or facts I present in this thread).

 

[Malashaan]

This would massively reduce the activity level in the region. A lot of people here are active in other regions and military organizations as well as TNP's government. Is duality a real problem for TNP? I don't get any sense that it is. This seems like a solution looking for a problem to me.

 

[Funkadelia]

You still have not addressed my concerns. You have simply given me a runaround and nonsensical answer.

You seem to be failing to recognize that the Bill of Rights is something that is entirely separate from the Constitution, minus the mention of the Bill of Rights in the Constitution. I don't understand why you're sidestepping this issue that would cause your law to circumvent Constitutional Law.

 

[Flemingovia]

Funny how this issue touches a nerve with some people.

I think this is an issue that would directly affect a number of people personally, so you can expect nerves to be touched.

 

[Romanoffia]

You still have not addressed my concerns. You have simply given me a runaround and nonsensical answer.

You seem to be failing to recognize that the Bill of Rights is something that is entirely separate from the Constitution, minus the mention of the Bill of Rights in the Constitution. I don't understand why you're sidestepping this issue that would cause your law to circumvent Constitutional Law.

See the answer to your question in my response to Malachaan.

Asta is correct, such legislation would produce a number of issues that would fall into the conundrum department. But then again, there are a number of such issues already existing that no one attempts to clean up legislatively because it might cause too many other flaws to be brought to light.

This would massively reduce the activity level in the region. A lot of people here are active in other regions and military organizations as well as TNP's government. Is duality a real problem for TNP? I don't get any sense that it is. This seems like a solution looking for a problem to me.

This is must be Bill of Rights Amendment, not a Constitutional amendment.

EDIT: Relevant section:

3. Participation in the governmental authorities of the region is voluntary. Participation in the World Assembly shall not be a condition of participation in the governmental authorities of the region.

You still have not addressed these concerns.

Then how do you explain that the same law and constitution requires one to be a WA member in order to be Delegate?

Of course game mechanics require it, but the constitution clearly says you cannot be forced into being an RA member. Which is correct? The Game Mechanics in NS which forces a Regional Delegate to be a WA member? See what I mean.

But we diverge from the original intent of this thread.

Funny how this issue touches a nerve with some people.

I think this is an issue that would directly affect a number of people personally, so you can expect nerves to be touched.

Of course. It's interesting to see what the discussion of certain concepts in terms of legislative action brings out of the woodwork. It is very telling about how people perceive the NS World and their own region(s).

I think the point has been made.

I withdraw this proposal.

 

[Gracius Maximus]

For the record, I would support this.

 

[Funkadelia]

Romanoffia, the government is not requiring anyone to become a WA member for the purposes of being in the government. However, by virtue of the mechanics of the game, one must be a WA member to become the Delegate or Vice Delegate. It would be asinine and even deconstructive of the region to force Court Justices, the AG, all ministers, and RA members to have their WA in TNP as well. You would be essentially killing all activity in the region. This simply cannot pass. Furthermore, you have yet again given me a runaround answer and have not fixed the massive legal flaw in the proposed legislation

 

[Flemingovia]

Romanoffia, the government is not requiring anyone to become a WA member for the purposes of being in the government. However, by virtue of the mechanics of the game, one must be a WA member to become the Delegate or Vice Delegate. It would be asinine and even deconstructive of the region to force Court Justices, the AG, all ministers, and RA members to have their WA in TNP as well. You would be essentially killing all activity in the region. This simply cannot pass. Furthermore, you have yet again given me a runaround answer and have not fixed the massive legal flaw in the proposed legislation

Er, Funk sweetheart, you are opposing a proposal that has been withdrawn. Try reading other's posts.

 

[Funkadelia]

I didn't see the last line of Roman's post as it sort of blended in with his signature in my eyes. My apologies.

 

[Democratic Donkeys]

I didn't see the last line of Roman's post as it sort of blended in with his signature in my eyes. My apologies.

Oh, that's quite alright. I have the same problem myself. Except instead of the last line it's all lines, and the signature plays no role.

 

[Romanoffia]

As an over-all commentary on the issue of 'Duality', it has taken me years to understand the whole issue of "Duality".

It would seem that "Duality" is not really any kind of 'Right' or 'Moral' theory or issue at all. It is a tool for the concentration of power. To wit:

In recent TNP history, show me one single person elected Delegate who isn't engaging in some kind of "Duality" of play. TNP has a long history of this. One usually doesn't get elected to high office in TNP unless one is engaging in, or rather using the tool of Duality. Think about it.

Duality, if properly applied, allows individuals to draw upon other regions for the purposes of obtaining power in TNP. Simply put, the overlap of an individual in terms of the regions they are active in gives those individuals an advantage because the other nations they control under the guise of "Duality" gives makes that other nation privy to information used by the other nations such an individual controls. This is true despite the claims of "I don't let the two nations mix. Duality."

Hence, if someone was a powerful player in another substantial region with a puppet nation there, and there are a substantial number of other nations in TNP what are also playing the duality card in that region also, then it could be arranged for that other region to actually control TNP via the use of 'Duality' of a large number of nations. Hence, Duality is just a tooll for feeders to be effectively made the property of non GCRs if someone had a mind to it.

Silly me for not getting this sooner. Or rather, for being naive enough to not see that this is why 'Duality' is such a sacred cow that is not to be touched.

It has become a matter of 'When in Rome', so to speak.