Amendment to 6.10 of the Legal code

Scarpanto

Scarpanto

TNPer
Chapter 6 of the Legal Code:
10. The Speaker's office will promptly remove any Regional Assembly members whose removal is ordered by the Court, or whose North Pacific nation leaves the region; or ceases to exist for a period of 24 hours.
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Pretty self-explanatory. I think someone who forgets log-in should be given a grace period of 24 hours, after all this assembly is forum-based and one should not be penalized should he/she forget to log in. Some of us don't answer issues anymore and logging in to ones' nation seems to be a pointless exercise. While I agree one should maintain a nation in TNP to be a part of the assembly, I think we should allow someone to rectify a CTE'd nation before we summarily remove them from the assembly. I'm open to suggestions.

(Also, this is the first time I'm proposing an amendment, if I haven't done it in the right format can someone please PM me the correct way to do it so I can fix it? Thanks)
 
A potential problem with implementation: the Speaker can't always tell exactly when a nation has CTE'd. Furthermore, after someone hasn't logged into their nation long enough for it to CTE, I'm not sure how much of a difference 24 hours would make, unless you want to enforce some kind of notification system.

EDIT: It's been brought to my attention that you can, actually, through the boneyard. Ya learn something new every day, I guess. My point stands that unless you want to make me send out a warning every time someone doesn't log into their nation for a month, I'm not sure what this would actually do. If someone lets their nation CTE, they clearly aren't paying much attention to it, and an extra day isn't going to change that.
 
Ok, so the question becomes: how important is a nation in determining activity in RA members? It's not like we use our nations to vote. There should be a more comprehensive indicator used. Perhaps missed votes & a nation CTE'ing...so should a nation CTE the assemblyperson in question would have to satisfy the missed vote(s) to be fully removed. E.g. Assemblyperson X's nation CTE's -->if he/she missed votes--->removal. If not, warning sent to restore nation. Does that even make sense? I think having ones nation CTE while still being active in the RA warrants some type of grace period. Kicking out active assemblypersons just for a CTE seems excessive.
 
In NS, there is an option in Settings Email me warnings of impending apocalypses - if you check this you will get a warning by e-mail that your nation will CTE in a few days.
 
Chasmanthe:
In NS, there is an option in Settings Email me warnings of impending apocalypses - if you check this you will get a warning by e-mail that your nation will CTE in a few days.
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This actually provides a sound reason why this isn't needed. If the person is too distracted (I wanted to say lazy, BUUUUUT...) to remain in the region, they can set that setting to remind them so they don't CTE without notice. If they can't be bothered to log into their TNP nation once every 28 days or so, what would giving them another 24 hours do?
 
Alvino Castillon:
Chasmanthe:
In NS, there is an option in Settings Email me warnings of impending apocalypses - if you check this you will get a warning by e-mail that your nation will CTE in a few days.
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This actually provides a sound reason why this isn't needed. If the person is too distracted (I wanted to say lazy, BUUUUUT...) to remain in the region, they can set that setting to remind them so they don't CTE without notice. If they can't be bothered to log into their TNP nation once every 28 days or so, what would giving them another 24 hours do?
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The problem like that would be people like me who have many puppets (for military or other uses). I certainly don't log into Zeira regularly. It's quite easy to accidentally let one get away from you. I only check Zeorus and TSR regularly.
 
Crushing Our Enemies:
Question for those who this legislation would benefit: how do you decide which nations to regularly log in to?
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I check Zeorus for Equilism stuff and TSR for AoSS stuff (Zeira to keep it alive and other puppets for occasional military use). I decide primarily based on my needs at the current time.
 
But you do have to log in to stay active on the RMB, which I've noticed you do in at least one other region. So it can't just be the voting.
 
The point I was getting to was that I do not need to log in to my nation to perform my duties as a RA member. In The Pacific, it is part of my job description as Legatus of the Praetorian Guard to maintain a presence on the RMB to welcome new nations, recruit, and clear nazi spam.
 
You need to log in to your nation to remain in TNP in the first place, and that should be the main requirement to belong to any regional... stuff. Or that's my opinion, obviously.

I log regularly into 400 nations or so, so I think lazyness it's not an excuse for only three puppets...
 
How about this for an alternative: the RA member has 24 hours to inform the Assembly of their new TNP nation, or to rez their old one from the moment the CTE is reported. So, some people may have CTE'd longer than 24 hours ago, but we can only really judge from when it is noticed.

It would also allow us to contact the speaker through the PM system and inform them, and give them time to fix the issue. As has been said previously, if the RA is the only reason you have a TNP nation then it wouldn't be high on your list of priorities to log into your TNP nation (personal feelings about this aside ;)).


It wouldn't be too difficult to write a small script that monitored if all the RA nations existed. Someone would only have to run it once a day.
 
Lennart:
You need to log in to your nation to remain in TNP in the first place, and that should be the main requirement to belong to any regional... stuff. Or that's my opinion, obviously.

I log regularly into 400 nations or so, so I think lazyness it's not an excuse for only three puppets...
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I am so impressed that you thought up 400 mottos. :w00t:

Doesn't everyone get an email from NS warning of a looming apocalypse in their puppet nations?

This legislation looks ok. Having myself cte any number of times, instances of absentmindedness ought to be forgivable. What we want to discourage is the casual RA member who is peripherally involved in TNP only to vote.
 
Great Bights Mum:
Lennart:
You need to log in to your nation to remain in TNP in the first place, and that should be the main requirement to belong to any regional... stuff. Or that's my opinion, obviously.

I log regularly into 400 nations or so, so I think lazyness it's not an excuse for only three puppets...
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I am so impressed that you thought up 400 mottos. :w00t:

Doesn't everyone get an email from NS warning of a looming apocalypse in their puppet nations?

This legislation looks ok. Having myself cte any number of times, instances of absentmindedness ought to be forgivable. What we want to discourage is the casual RA member who is peripherally involved in TNP only to vote.
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A hundred of them or so have original mottoes, but most of my nations share uninspiring ones.

A RA member is deciding for an in-game community, and not only for the RA itself or registered citizens... Sounds funny you're voting laws natives must obey, when you're not even in there. But I guess the 24 hours grace period won't hurt though
 
GoalVA:
How about this for an alternative: the RA member has 24 hours to inform the Assembly of their new TNP nation, or to rez their old one from the moment the CTE is reported. So, some people may have CTE'd longer than 24 hours ago, but we can only really judge from when it is noticed.
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We can actually get an exact timestamp of when a nation has CTE'd now, through the boneyard.
GoalVA:
It wouldn't be too difficult to write a small script that monitored if all the RA nations existed. Someone would only have to run it once a day.
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We've actually got that too :P
 
Just like suicide is legal, allowing your nation to CTE is not something people should feel ashamed of, unless they are purporting to be a committed citizen of the region. If you sit in the assembly, you must be in the region. When you lose your nation you lose your seat in the assembly, when you reapply you get it back again. It's not about making people feel guilty as it's natural for some people to invest more attention in regions other than ours. If you re-apply to the RA ten times why should you feel bad about that, why is it anything to complain about? You have the power to alter it, just log in to your TNP nation. People are free to set their own levels of activity and attentiveness but the role of being in the RA does actually require you to have a nation in the region and I really feel that should be enforced without an additional 24 hour grace period. I'm not taking the moral high ground, I don't check the RMB or post on it, my contributions to the region are approximately zero, but logging into my TNP nation? That's a no-brainer.
 
Crushing Our Enemies:
GoalVA:
How about this for an alternative: the RA member has 24 hours to inform the Assembly of their new TNP nation, or to rez their old one from the moment the CTE is reported. So, some people may have CTE'd longer than 24 hours ago, but we can only really judge from when it is noticed.
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We can actually get an exact timestamp of when a nation has CTE'd now, through the boneyard.
GoalVA:
It wouldn't be too difficult to write a small script that monitored if all the RA nations existed. Someone would only have to run it once a day.
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We've actually got that too :P
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Then I fail to see any problem with this amendment as it stands and will support it.
 
If we implement the 24 hour grace period it poses a problem.

As soon as nation CTE's it resides no longer in the north pacific, and when it's refounded it resides in lazarus, balder or osiris.

So effectively, what you're proposing here, is an aggressive recruitment campaign waged against osiris, whereby a nation that has only just been refounded (therefore a natural-born osiran) is being recruited back into one of the pacifics due to its previous life there.

This is unfair on our ally Osiris as they do not have the same recourse against us.

Would we be happy if Osiris was recruiting from us? No, we'd be outraged.

I'll be abstaining on this vote.
 
Chasmanthe:
If we implement the 24 hour grace period it poses a problem.

As soon as nation CTE's it resides no longer in the north pacific, and when it's refounded it resides in lazarus, balder or osiris.

So effectively, what you're proposing here, is an aggressive recruitment campaign waged against osiris, whereby a nation that has only just been refounded (therefore a natural-born osiran) is being recruited back into one of the pacifics due to its previous life there.

This is unfair on our ally Osiris as they do not have the same recourse against us.

Would we be happy if Osiris was recruiting from us? No, we'd be outraged.

I'll be abstaining on this vote.
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No offence, but that is the biggest pile of tosh I have ever heard. If we were taking dedicated members from the sinks using subterfuge then I'd agree but giving our members a reminder that their nation has CTEd is not poaching. Those nations wouldn't remain anyway!
 
Chas, no offense, but that argument is ridiculous. At the very least, this amendment is a courtesy to the forgetful ones in TNP who, may be active on the forums, but for one reason or another forget to log in to their nation. A simple 24 hour grace period is hardly asking for much. To say that we're poaching from Balder, Osiris, or Lazarus is....a pile of tosh.
 
The way the amendment is currently worded allows nations to CTE for 24 hours OR leave the region for 24 hours...is that the intention?

EDIT: Also, removing the word "promptly" may have more far-reaching consequences than are currently evident. A less conscientious and responsible Speaker than I might wait absurdly long periods of time before removing members, just to screw with the system.
 
I'll bump this discussion even though it's been dead for over a week...
As multiple people have said, the 24hr grace period is not necessary since you can choose to be notified of the impending CTE.
For this reason, if this gets seconded to go to vote, I will vote against this.

Great Bights Mum:
What we want to discourage is the casual RA member who is peripherally involved in TNP only to vote.
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I am sad to say that I don't understand what you mean or what your point is.
Can you please clarify?
(I would like to understand if there is an alternate revision that you or anyone else is possibly considering, such as changing "promptly")
 
Great Bights Mum:
What we want to discourage is the casual RA member who is peripherally involved in TNP only to vote.
Click to expand...
I am sad to say that I don't understand what you mean or what your point is.
Can you please clarify?
(I would like to understand if there is an alternate revision that you or anyone else is possibly considering, such as changing "promptly")
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I believe GBM is referring to people who are generally inactive and contribute nothing to the region, but who adhere to the minimum requirements to stay in the RA so that they can vote when certain issues arise, and who generally vote in the interests of an outside group or region. This is a charge that, rightly or wrongly, has often been levied against certain members of the UDL, for example.

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I do not feel strongly one way or the other about this amendment. I do not see it as necessary, nor do I see it as particularly harmful should it pass.
 
All I was trying to say was that things happen, people forget, and especially those with multiple puppets. This is just a common courtesy
 
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