Second Proposal to recall Pasargad from his position on the Council

[newmist]

(Apologies if I make any errors - I'm new to the forum and do not understand how they work)
Article 5 of The Bill of Rights for all Nations of the North Pacific:
5. All Nations of The North Pacific have the right to be protected against the abuse of powers by any official of a government authority of the region. Any Nation of The North Pacific has the right to request the recall of any official of a government authority of the region in accordance with the Constitution, that is deemed to have participated in such acts

Prior to early December, I was not aware that there was a maximum endorsement level and only acutely aware that The North Pacific had a forum.

In early December, I received a telegram from Zemnaya Svoboda inviting me to join the forums. I browsed the forums as a guest to see whether I should join, but before I had come to a final decision, I was sent a telegram by Pasargad only a few days later telling me to reduce my number of endorsements immediately or face being banned from TNP. I was shocked and worried by this, especially as upon closer inspection I had not passed any Delegate's number of endorsements.

As he identified himself as a member of the TNP Security Council, I lost trust in the influential nations that make up the region and felt as if I was being singled out and that I was not welcome. Thus, when I received further telegrams, this time from Great Bights Mum, I felt pestered and I felt I could not trust them - and as a result, I did not respond to any telegram sent to me.

When the Delegate and others withdrew their endorsement from me, I felt like I was right - that I was being pushed to one side; out of spite I unendorsed every member of the Security Council. Great Bights Mum has told me that the Security Council have been planning on threatening me with a ban from the region if I pass Blue Wolf II's endorsement level, suggesting that I am some sort of assailant and threat to the region. My response is this - I have NO intention of becoming any sort of Delegate, by force or otherwise.

I have been made to feel small and isolated from the region and made to feel like I have done wrong - when I have done no such thing, and if I have, I didn't intend to cause harm. I've been considering leaving the region up until this point. I hope you can understand my position and do whatever needs to be done from here.

 

[Blue Wolf II]

Straight from the horse's mouth, eh?

I second this motion.

 

[newmist]

I forgot - in case the telegram he sent me was required, here it is.
It reads:
Greetings The Federal Republic of Newmist!!
consider this an official warning from TNP security council , you may be face ejection from TNP in the next 72 hours if you do not stop increasing your endorsement numbers.
The Empire of Pasargad
TNP security counsil member

sent December 5 2012

 

[Tim]

I forgot - in case the telegram he sent me was required, here it is.
It reads:
Greetings The Federal Republic of Newmist!!
consider this an official warning from TNP security council , you may be face ejection from TNP in the next 72 hours if you do not stop increasing your endorsement numbers.
The Empire of Pasargad
TNP security counsil member

sent December 5 2012

Speaking as an outside observer, a screenshot of this might be better evidence in a Court Situation?

 

[Blue Wolf II]

The SC already has this on file, actually.

 

[Democratic Donkeys]

Is this where you would like this thread, most honorable vice delegate? Or would it be better suited to the main RA forum?

 

[Eluvatar]

Is this where you would like this thread, most honorable vice delegate? Or would it be better suited to the main RA forum?

It's not a court process...

 

[Gaspo]

This does not belong in the court; however, the person filing the motion to recall isn't technically in the RA, so I'm not sure they could have posted in there.

Given that it pertains to the SC, perhaps a public SC subforum would be more appropriate.

 

[Democratic Donkeys]

Is this where you would like this thread, most honorable vice delegate? Or would it be better suited to the main RA forum?

It's not a court process...

I was simply asking Blue Wolf where to move the thread since it was his suggestion for Newmist to post it anywhere on this forum for it to then be moved. I feel the RA main forum is more appropriate even than the SC because that is ultimately where this motion would be taken up, regardless of Newmist's RA status. Not to mention there is already a motion in the RA that this complaint was meant to bolster.

 

[Eluvatar]

Is this where you would like this thread, most honorable vice delegate? Or would it be better suited to the main RA forum?

It's not a court process...

I was simply asking Blue Wolf where to move the thread since it was his suggestion for Newmist to post it anywhere on this forum for it to then be moved. I feel the RA main forum is more appropriate even than the SC because that is ultimately where this motion would be taken up, regardless of Newmist's RA status. Not to mention there is already a motion in the RA that this complaint was meant to bolster.

As newmist can now post in the RA, I'm moving this there.

---

Now, regarding the actual subject matter: Obviously as I proposed removing Pasargad a month ago on these grounds, I support removing him. I do note that this further supports the argument that his actions harmed TNP in general and the Security Council specifically.

 

[mcmasterdonia]

Great Bights Mum made it known to NewMist that he (or she?) would be banned if they exceeded the Vice Delegate's endorsement level. This decision was made based on the no communications factor for some time, and in accordance with the law.

I am sorry that you felt threatened by Pasargard. This is not the first time he has made a public security announcement without the authority of the security council.

 

[Tyler Kazakov]

Kick him out.

I support.

 

[Flemingovia]

Parsagrad's use of his SC position was referred to the SC to deal with some time ago. I am surprised they have not clarified this issue with him.

Since it now seems down to the regional Assembly to sort out, I will allow the usual week for debate, then a vote on the recall.

It would be particularly helpful if members of the SC could enlighten us as to their debates and procedures. I Hope Pars takes the time to comment too.

 

[mcmasterdonia]

Pars has not commented on a Security Council matter in quite a while. A thread has been started in the SC to discuss this, and to suggest for his removal.

 

[Lord Byron]

I would like to mention that until recently neither was I aware of Constitutional clause 3.7, limiting TNP nations endorsement count to be below that of the Vice Delegate, and giving the Delegate (not the SC) authority to eject and/or ban said offending nation.

I second this motion.

Newmist did not propose anything... Unless I can't read. And not yet a RA member, right?

Great Bights Mum made it known to NewMist that he (or she?) would be banned if they exceeded the Vice Delegate's endorsement level. This decision was made based on the no communications factor for some time, and in accordance with the law.

I am shocked that a message from GBM would make Newmist feel alienated, etc. that is pretty out of character and probably a miscommunication, eh?

I am sorry that you felt threatened by Pasargard. This is not the first time he has made a public security announcement without the authority of the security council.

I take this to be the official public apology from the TNP Government.

Newmist, please let us know how you feel; we want all TNP nations to be happy and cheerful.

 

[Blue Wolf II]

He did propose a recall, it's in the title of the thread. Also, he doesn't need to be an RA member, only a TNP nation as outlined in Article 5 of the Bill of Rights.

I don't believe this belongs in the RA. Newmist proposed it, so he should be able to see and comment on it. The RA might be the body that ultimately votes on it, but that doesn't mean non-RA TNP nations shouldn't be able to make remarks on it.

 

[Great Bights Mum]

Great Bights Mum made it known to NewMist that he (or she?) would be banned if they exceeded the Vice Delegate's endorsement level. This decision was made based on the no communications factor for some time, and in accordance with the law.

I am shocked that a message from GBM would make Newmist feel alienated, etc. that is pretty out of character and probably a miscommunication, eh?

I don't have a copy of what I sent Newmist, but if he has it, I have no objection to his posting it if he likes. The SC was definitely concerned because Newmist's intentions in gathering many endorsements were unknown. I TG'd him with the specific objective of encouraging him to communicate with us.

 

[Eluvatar]

Blue Wolf, newmist could see it here, and as a Registered Citizen he can comment on it here

There's a reason I moved it to the SC at first though, before he was a Registered Citizen.

 

[newmist]

I can both see and comment on this.

Lord Byron
1. I was told that there had been a motion against Pasargad before over the same issue, but nothing had happened over it. Blue Wolf advised me that I could submit a second proposal for him to be removed from the Security Council, citing Article 5 and explaining how my rights were violated and why I think an abuse of powers occurred. Apologies if I was not completely clear.
2. I was upset by Pasargad's telegram most - which made me feel like I had done wrong when I hadn't. This led me to distrust the Security Council as a whole, as that was the group Pasargad said he was from. I didn't respond to any messages sent by any members of the SC, as a result. Yesterday, I received a telegram suggesting that action was going to be taken very soon if I went over Blue Wolf's endorsement level. I got very worried - and thus, I spoke out today because I didn't want to be forced out of the region.

If there are any other points that need clarifying, please say so - and I apologise for not making myself clear in the first instance.

 

[Blue Wolf II]

I didn't know Registered Citizens had permission to see or comment in these forums, since, in my general experience, the Registered Citizens rights and permissions are barely half of what the RA gets.

 

[Eluvatar]

That's not at all true.

 

[Blue Wolf II]

Really? They can vote? They can run in elections? They can petition the RA?

 

[Eluvatar]

You referred to access. There is, I believe, one area that RA members can see and Registered Citizens cannot. There is one other area I know of where Registered Citizens cannot post.

 

[Pasargad]

the only thing that i will say is that it is sad to see a fellow SC member conspire to get rid another member of SC
..
@newmist
you are new to forum but you are an expert in endotarting!!!
you felt threatened by my TG asking you to reduce your endorsement numbers but feel strong enough to come to forum and ask for removal of longest serving member of TNP SC because he asked you to lower your endorsement number!!

I am sorry that you felt threatened by Pasargard. This is not the first time he has made a public security announcement without the authority of the security council.

and mods deleted your nation for trying to hack other nation and you are apologizing that i sent a potential rouge delegate a warning TG as a member of SC!!!!!

 

[Great Bights Mum]

Pas, there is no conspiracy involved. There are some serious issues with your actions, and we are in the process of determining if they are cause for recall. You should have a lot more to say about it than that.

 

[Alvino Castillon]

the only thing that i will say is that it is sad to see a fellow SC member conspire to get rid another member of SC

This actually isn't about that. If what this person is saying is true, you acted outside the jurisdiction of the Security Council. Not only that, but apparently, you gave the Security Council no prior warning about your planned actions and instead, went ahead and messaged this citizen by yourself.

Now, let's look at what your telegram said, if it was sent:

Greetings The Federal Republic of Newmist!!
consider this an official warning from TNP security council , you may be face ejection from TNP in the next 72 hours if you do not stop increasing your endorsement numbers.
The Empire of Pasargad
TNP security counsil member

Notice the telegram has the word "official." Now, I believe that a Security Council telegram regarding the threat of ejection should come from a member who has either been sanctioned by the Council to telegram this person or the Vice Delegate. If my information is correct, you are neither the Vice Delegate nor sanctioned to send such a telegram on behalf of the entire Security Council. Therefore, what you did is absolutely out of line with the rest of the Council and somewhat disheartening to say the least.

At this point in time, there can be an argument that this message may have actually not existed, it could be skewed, and so on. So, I would like to request newmist show us a picture of this telegram to prove beyond a doubt that this telegram did indeed happen. Until then, I will abstain from this recall vote. Also, Pasargad's lackluster response does not give me reason to trust that he is telling the truth... hopefully that will change.

EDIT: Apparently it has, but not in the way I was hoping. Your accusations of Security Council members "ganging up" on you concerns me and can still not be proven. On the matters of your other accusations against newmist, would you please provide us the reasoning behind such a claim?

 

[Kingborough]

Pasargad, if you'd actually been paying attention for the last month, you'd discover Newmist is only restarting discussion on your removal which was first proposed in early December by Eluvatar. There is no conspiracy by Blue Wolf or any other SC member.

Also I would advise using a standard spell checker as provided with most bog-standard text editing programs such as Microsoft Word, Notepad, Google Chrome internet browsers etc (even TextEdit if you are on Mac). It really helps with making your posts easier to understand.

 

[Pasargad]

the only thing that i will say is that it is sad to see a fellow SC member conspire to get rid another member of SC

This actually isn't about that. If what this person is saying is true, you acted outside the jurisdiction of the Security Council. Not only that, but apparently, you gave the Security Council no prior warning about your planned actions and instead, went ahead and messaged this citizen by yourself.

Now, let's look at what your telegram said, if it was sent:

Greetings The Federal Republic of Newmist!!
consider this an official warning from TNP security council , you may be face ejection from TNP in the next 72 hours if you do not stop increasing your endorsement numbers.
The Empire of Pasargad
TNP security counsil member

Notice the telegram has the word "official." Now, I believe that a Security Council telegram regarding the threat of ejection should come from a member who has either been sanctioned by the Council to telegram this person or the Vice Delegate. If my information is correct, you are neither the Vice Delegate nor sanctioned to send such a telegram on behalf of the entire Security Council. Therefore, what you did is absolutely out of line with the rest of the Council and somewhat disheartening to say the least.

At this point in time, there can be an argument that this message may have actually not existed, it could be skewed, and so on. So, I would like to request newmist show us a picture of this telegram to prove beyond a doubt that this telegram did indeed happen. Until then, I will abstain from this recall vote. Also, Pasargad's lackluster response does not give me reason to trust that he is telling the truth... hopefully that will change.

EDIT: Apparently it has, but not in the way I was hoping. Your accusations of Security Council members "ganging up" on you concerns me and can still not be proven. On the matters of your other accusations against newmist, would you please provide us the reasoning behind such a claim?

This actually isn't about that. If what this person is saying is true, you acted outside the jurisdiction of the Security Council. Not only that, but apparently, you gave the Security Council no prior warning about your planned actions and instead, went ahead and messaged this citizen by yourself.

I did inform SC before sending any TGs , and its available in the SC area,

Notice the telegram has the word "official." Now, I believe that a Security Council telegram regarding the threat of ejection should come from a member who has either been sanctioned by the Council to telegram this person or the Vice Delegate. If my information is correct, you are neither the Vice Delegate nor sanctioned to send such a telegram on behalf of the entire Security Council. Therefore, what you did is absolutely out of line with the rest of the Council and somewhat disheartening to say the least.

it is official as i sent it as a member of TNP security council member. and i was elected to SC by the vote of RA and have taken a oath of office as member of SC to serve TNP

 

[Blue Wolf II]

and mods deleted your nation for trying to hack other nation

wut.

I did inform SC before sending any TGs , and its available in the SC area,

Not at all. You informed the Security Council only after you had already sent the threatening telegram and reposted it on TNP RMB for all to see.

 

[Pasargad]

i am feeling sleepy will post a full reply tommorow

 

[Pasargad]

Pasargad, if you'd actually been paying attention for the last month, you'd discover Newmist is only restarting discussion on your removal which was first proposed in early December by Eluvatar. There is no conspiracy by Blue Wolf or any other SC member.

Also I would advise using a standard spell checker as provided with most bog-standard text editing programs such as Microsoft Word, Notepad, Google Chrome internet browsers etc (even TextEdit if you are on Mac). It really helps with making your posts easier to understand.

Pasargad, if you'd actually been paying attention for the last month, you'd discover Newmist is only restarting discussion on your removal which was first proposed in early December by Eluvatar. There is no conspiracy by Blue Wolf or any other SC member.

Also I would advise using a standard spell checker as provided with most bog-standard text editing programs such as Microsoft Word, Notepad, Google Chrome internet browsers etc (even TextEdit if you are on Mac). It really helps with making your posts easier to understand.

thank you for you advise regarding using Spell checker
i did try using spell checker what a wonderful program!!!

 

[Kiwi]

This certainly isn't a conspiracy by any means. Elu originally posted the recall if I recall correctly and as chair of the SC BW is doing his job in following it up.

Pas also previously sent me a TG requesting endos as a member of the security council (something no other SC member has done to me at least). Anyway yes if Pas has not asked permission to send that TG before it was sent, he rightly so should be subject to a recall.

My sympathy lessened greatly the second he made that accusation against our honourable delegate. Take responsibility for your own actions instead of mudslinging.

 

[Pasargad]

This certainly isn't a conspiracy by any means. Elu originally posted the recall if I recall correctly and as chair of the SC BW is doing his job in following it up.

Pas also previously sent me a TG requesting endos as a member of the security council (something no other SC member has done to me at least). Anyway yes if Pas has not asked permission to send that TG before it was sent, he rightly so should be subject to a recall.

My sympathy lessened greatly the second he made that accusation against our honourable delegate. Take responsibility for your own actions instead of mudslinging.

Pas also previously sent me a TG requesting endos as a member of the security council (something no other SC member has done to me at least). Anyway yes if Pas has not asked permission to send that TG before it was sent, he rightly so should be subject to a recall.

so if you sent a TG stating that you are minister of defence !!
that makes you eligible for recall!!!
secondly i did not accuse mcmaster of hacking ,the nation states mods did when they deleted his nation

 

[Kiwi]

I was merely commenting that you had done so, I had not said you were not right to do so. You were not right to send the above stated TG, however. Which you haven't denied, nor apologised for.

To the contrary you ignored the part of my post you wanted to.

 

[Pasargad]

I was merely commenting that you had done so, I had not said you were not right to do so. You were not right to send the above stated TG, however. Which you haven't denied, nor apologised for.

To the contrary you ignored the part of my post you wanted to.

This certainly isn't a conspiracy by any means. Elu originally posted the recall if I recall correctly and as chair of the SC BW is doing his job in following it up.

It is when people asking for my recall in private are sending Tgs that they are considering banning newmist immediately if he continues to tart beyond BW's endo numbers and that they do not believe a word of what newmist says!!!

 

[Eluvatar]

I asked for your recall in public a month ago.

 

[Pasargad]

and i sent the TG to newmist also more than a month ago

 

[Pasargad]

I asked for your recall in public a month ago.

does that mean u were wrong a month ago!!

 

[punk d]

i'm not really seeing the need to remove Pasargad fro this. Am I missing something? If someone can lay a case out that is more than this, that would be helpful.

 

[Blue Wolf II]

He abused his authority with the Security Council twice now, threatening nations with bans in our name but without our consent. This would be the primary root of the question, we should allow someone who threatens others in the Security Council's name but without consulting with us first to be a part of the Council?