First Vice Delegate Debate

Eluvatar

Eluvatar

TNPer
-
-
Pronouns
he/him/his
TNP Nation
Zemnaya Svoboda
Discord
Eluvatar#8517
A spontaneous debate was held between half a dozen of the candidates for Vice Delegate.

#tnp-debate:
[(time=1353547860)] <Eluvatar> So it seems all the online candidates are here.
[(time=1353547920)] <RabbiCellophane> So it seems all the candidates who matter are here.*
[(time=1353547920)] <Eluvatar> The format will be a series of questions, for which each candidate will get 1 minute to answer it (in random order)
[(time=1353547920)] <Insaniac> Okay.
[(time=1353547920)] <Eluvatar> after which there will be a 5 minute period to discuss
[(time=1353547920)] --> FriarTuck joined the channel
[(time=1353547920)] --> Erastide joined the channel
[(time=1353547920)] --- Eluvatar changed mode: +o FriarTuck
[(time=1353547920)] <Insaniac> I'll answer these questions legitimately instead of my normal parody.
[(time=1353547920)] <Eluvatar> .in 5 minutes begin
[(time=1353547920)] <FriarTuck> Eluvatar: Okay, will remind at 01:37Z
[(time=1353547920)] <Biyah`Tomb> am I here?
[(time=1353547980)] --> Sovreignry joined the channel
[(time=1353547980)] --> heronlord joined the channel
[(time=1353547980)] <Eluvatar> Yes
[(time=1353547980)] * Biyah`Tomb pokes King
[(time=1353548040)] --> Mahaj joined the channel
[(time=1353548040)] <Kingborough> there you are
[(time=1353548040)] * Kingborough violently murders his IRC client
[(time=1353548040)] <Biyah`Tomb> I've been here :P
[(time=1353548040)] <Insaniac> Kingborough: Should I answer these in my parody campaign or legitimately?
[(time=1353548040)] <Kingborough> which are you running on?
[(time=1353548040)] <Insaniac> Parody,
[(time=1353548100)] <Eluvatar> FriarTuck: .py random.shuffle(['a','b','c'])
[(time=1353548100)] <Kingborough> your choice
[(time=1353548100)] <Insaniac> Ohk...
[(time=1353548100)] <Insaniac> I'll randomly switch.
[(time=1353548100)] <Insaniac> :D
[(time=1353548100)] <RabbiCellophane> Serious campaign is serious.
[(time=1353548100)] --> Bel joined the channel
[(time=1353548160)] <Insaniac> Omagosh, Bel
[(time=1353548160)] <Insaniac> Is it really him.
[(time=1353548220)] <Eluvatar> FriarTuck!
[(time=1353548220)] <FriarTuck> Eluvatar!
[(time=1353548220)] <Eluvatar> ok it's not broked
[(time=1353548220)] <Funkadelia> :)
[(time=1353548220)] <Kingborough> sorry, its his turnip twin Insaniac
[(time=1353548220)] <Funkadelia> Hi Friartuck!
[(time=1353548220)] <Eluvatar> It'll tell us to begin shortly
[(time=1353548220)] <Funkadelia> Hi FriarTuck!
[(time=1353548220)] <Eluvatar> I set a 5 minute timer
[(time=1353548220)] <Funkadelia> damn you ft
[(time=1353548220)] <FriarTuck> Eluvatar: begin
[(time=1353548220)] --- Eluvatar changed topic: TNP Vice Delegate Debate
[(time=1353548280)] --> Neenee joined the channel
[(time=1353548280)] --> Romanoffia joined the channel
[(time=1353548280)] <Eluvatar> First I will shuffle the list of present candidates
[(time=1353548280)] <Kingborough> yay
[(time=1353548280)] --- Eluvatar changed mode: +v Romanoffia
[(time=1353548280)] <Eluvatar> adding Romanoffia to it
[(time=1353548280)] <Romanoffia> ;D
[(time=1353548280)] <Eluvatar> ['Chasmanthe', 'Funkadelia', 'RabbiCellophane', 'Scandigrad', 'Romanoffia', 'Biyah`Tomb', 'Insaniac', 'Kingborough']
[(time=1353548280)] <Eluvatar> is our random order for the first question.
[(time=1353548280)] <Chasmanthe> damn it
[(time=1353548280)] <Chasmanthe> ok
[(time=1353548280)] <Eluvatar> As I stated earlier, the debaters will have 1 minute to respond in turn,
[(time=1353548340)] <Eluvatar> followed by a five minute mutal debate period
[(time=1353548340)] <Eluvatar> (free for all)
[(time=1353548340)] <Chasmanthe> free for all is not a candidate
[(time=1353548340)] <Funkadelia> lol
[(time=1353548340)] <Scandigrad> Shh!
[(time=1353548340)] <Insaniac> Chas
[(time=1353548340)] <Scandigrad> DecoruM!
[(time=1353548340)] <Insaniac> *rolls eyes*
[(time=1353548340)] <Eluvatar> Regional Security is obviously the central focus of the Vice Delegate. What is the most important thing for the Vice Delegate to do in that regard?
[(time=1353548340)] <Eluvatar> Chasmanthe?
[(time=1353548340)] <Eluvatar> .in 1 minute proceed to Funkadelia
[(time=1353548340)] <FriarTuck> Eluvatar: Okay, will remind at 01:40Z
[(time=1353548340)] <Chasmanthe> I'm glad you asked that question
[(time=1353548400)] <Chasmanthe> be alert
[(time=1353548400)] <Chasmanthe> that is the most important thing
[(time=1353548400)] <Chasmanthe> banject legitimate threats to security
[(time=1353548400)] <Chasmanthe> ok is one minute up now
[(time=1353548400)] <Eluvatar> It will be shortly.
[(time=1353548400)] <FriarTuck> Eluvatar: proceed to Funkadelia
[(time=1353548400)] <Funkadelia> Thank you.
[(time=1353548400)] <Eluvatar> .in 1 minute proceed to RabbiCellophane
[(time=1353548400)] <FriarTuck> Eluvatar: Okay, will remind at 01:41Z
[(time=1353548460)] <Funkadelia> I feel that in regards to security, it is important for a VD to always be alert
[(time=1353548460)] <Funkadelia> For threats
[(time=1353548460)] <Funkadelia> And preparing for the unfortunate time where they may have to suceed the delgate
[(time=1353548460)] <Funkadelia> If they are removed from office
[(time=1353548520)] <FriarTuck> Eluvatar: proceed to RabbiCellophane
[(time=1353548520)] <Funkadelia> They must ensure that all the endocounts are just right for an easy transition
[(time=1353548520)] <RabbiCellophane> Most important thing for a VD is to park his ass in the region and collect endorsements.
[(time=1353548520)] <Eluvatar> .in 1 minute proceed to Scandigrad
[(time=1353548520)] <FriarTuck> Eluvatar: Okay, will remind at 01:43Z
[(time=1353548520)] <RabbiCellophane> Thank you.
[(time=1353548520)] <Eluvatar> oh you're one?
[(time=1353548520)] <Eluvatar> *done
[(time=1353548520)] <RabbiCellophane> Yes.
[(time=1353548520)] <Eluvatar> Scandigrad: you're up now then :P
[(time=1353548520)] <Scandigrad> Very well
[(time=1353548520)] <Scandigrad> The most important thing for a delegate to do is engage the region.
[(time=1353548580)] <Scandigrad> Get to know people in the region, and get involved.
[(time=1353548580)] <Scandigrad> That's why under my plan, I plan on bringing RP into the mix.
[(time=1353548580)] <FriarTuck> Eluvatar: proceed to Scandigrad
[(time=1353548580)] <Kingborough> lol
[(time=1353548580)] <Scandigrad> It helps get to know members, and keep track of who is involved, who is a threat, and who isn't.
[(time=1353548580)] <Eluvatar> okay, Romanoffia, you're up
[(time=1353548580)] <Romanoffia> The single most important thing for the Vice Delegate to do is his or her Constitutional and Legal duties.
[(time=1353548580)] <Eluvatar> .in 1 minute proceed to Biyah`Tomb
[(time=1353548580)] <FriarTuck> Eluvatar: Okay, will remind at 01:44Z
[(time=1353548640)] <Romanoffia> Primarily, to maintain the proper level of endorsements as required,
[(time=1353548640)] <Romanoffia> To study and understand the role of the Delegate so as to be ready to assume that position if needed,
[(time=1353548640)] <FriarTuck> Eluvatar: proceed to Biyah`Tomb
[(time=1353548640)] <Romanoffia> To maintain proper cooperation and advise of the security council to facilitate those ends,'
[(time=1353548700)] <Eluvatar> Biyah`Tomb: you're up :)
[(time=1353548700)] <Biyah`Tomb> Unlike the PRP'er, the VD should do more than just park his ass. The VD is also supposed to reach out, shake hands, and prepare to take over from a delegate that can't do the job. It's about personality and stability and reliability.
[(time=1353548700)] <Romanoffia> Not done yet...
[(time=1353548700)] <Biyah`Tomb> I've been in that position at least twice, TWP and Osiris and TEP. The closest thing most of these candidates know about VD is, well, something that is solved in a hospital.
[(time=1353548700)] <Eluvatar> .in 1 minute proceed to Insaniac
[(time=1353548700)] <FriarTuck> Eluvatar: Okay, will remind at 01:46Z
[(time=1353548700)] <Biyah`Tomb> done
[(time=1353548700)] <Eluvatar> ah
[(time=1353548700)] <Eluvatar> Insaniac: you're up :)
[(time=1353548700)] <Insaniac> It is my personal belief that that the most important thing the Vice Delegate can do in that regard is to cooperate with the general populace and with the Security Council. With a greater level of cooperation, more information can get processed and threats can be processed easier. With the easier processing of threats and general clutter going away, threats can be dealt with easier and the entire ordeal of security crisises will end
[(time=1353548700)] <Eluvatar> are you done as well? XD
[(time=1353548700)] <Insaniac> Yes
[(time=1353548700)] <Eluvatar> Kingborough: You're up
[(time=1353548700)] <Eluvatar> .in 1 minute definitely time for free-for-all
[(time=1353548700)] <FriarTuck> Eluvatar: Okay, will remind at 01:46Z
[(time=1353548700)] <Kingborough> In regards to security, I don't believe that their is one most important area - it important to be active and alert, as well as to maintain a high endorsement level at all times requiring constant endo swapping and dedication to the job, plus to undertaken the constitution duties of the Vice Delegate and to associate with the regional population and become a person they know and will support in a change over or emergency. Therefore, there are lot
[(time=1353548700)] <Kingborough> equally important areas and you can't really prioritise one over any others.
[(time=1353548760)] <Kingborough> no one most*
[(time=1353548760)] <Kingborough> sorry, typo
[(time=1353548760)] <FriarTuck> Eluvatar: proceed to Insaniac
[(time=1353548760)] <Kingborough> nvm, I didn't typo
[(time=1353548760)] <Kingborough> reading things weirdly
[(time=1353548760)] <Eluvatar> lol
[(time=1353548760)] <Eluvatar> Okay we can proceed to the free-for-all
[(time=1353548760)] <FriarTuck> Eluvatar: definitely time for free-for-all
[(time=1353548760)] <Insaniac> I like how Kingborough and I bought finished before Biyah`Tomb's minute was up.
[(time=1353548760)] <Eluvatar> I know Romanoffia had something to add to ihs bit
[(time=1353548760)] <Insaniac> both*
[(time=1353548760)] <RabbiCellophane> I stand for strength and security. The VD must stand by his post and gain influence to take over should the worst occur. Unlike my ADN friend, I don't believe in politicing for one's own sake, and to build a cult of personality.
[(time=1353548820)] <Kingborough> Its not about building a cult of personality, I agree.
[(time=1353548820)] <Biyah`Tomb> That's because you have no personality to make a cult of.
[(time=1353548820)] <Eluvatar> .in 5 minutes proceed to the next question
[(time=1353548820)] <Romanoffia> The vice delegate needs understand the function of all elements of government....
[(time=1353548820)] <FriarTuck> Eluvatar: Okay, will remind at 01:52Z
[(time=1353548820)] <Insaniac> One thing I've noticed, the answers from both Romanoffia and Kingborough seem fairly vague in my opinion.
[(time=1353548820)] <Funkadelia> I agree.
[(time=1353548820)] <Insaniac> Is their a chance you can expand on what you mean Romanoffia?
[(time=1353548820)] <Scandigrad> As do I
[(time=1353548820)] <Romanoffia> You want specifics?
[(time=1353548820)] <Insaniac> Yes.
[(time=1353548820)] <Kingborough> Its about serving the region and working to assure that it is secure. Vice Delegate is not about political power games
[(time=1353548820)] <Biyah`Tomb> VD is tied with power games, no matter how you slice it.
[(time=1353548880)] <Biyah`Tomb> That's politics.
[(time=1353548880)] <Funkadelia> Precisely
[(time=1353548880)] <Funkadelia> As king said O_o
[(time=1353548880)] <Romanoffia> The Vice Delegate needs to be ready to assume the position of Delegate at a moment's notice...
[(time=1353548880)] <RabbiCellophane> At least I don't borrow mine from the remnants of an organization notorious for its sabotage and divisiveness.
[(time=1353548880)] <Kingborough> You don't have to manipulate it to further your own power, Biyah
[(time=1353548880)] <Funkadelia> Obviously in some senses these power plays do come into play. I will not deny that
[(time=1353548880)] <Romanoffia> That means the VD needs to understand and have governmental experience.
[(time=1353548880)] <Funkadelia> But it just has to be on security
[(time=1353548880)] <Biyah`Tomb> I didn't say anything about manipulation of power. I refuse to believe that the position is completely divorced from politics, however, as you seem to suggst.
[(time=1353548880)] <Funkadelia> That's the focus
[(time=1353548880)] <Biyah`Tomb> That view is short-sighted and overly idealistic.
[(time=1353548880)] <Kingborough> Quite, ROman. But they shouldn't be using their office to further political aims
[(time=1353548880)] <Romanoffia> This also means that you need to support the Delegate and his policies.
[(time=1353548940)] <Insaniac> Kingborough: You seem to desire a removal of the VD position from political engagement?
[(time=1353548940)] <Scandigrad> I'm gonna second Biyah's statement
[(time=1353548940)] <Funkadelia> Roman, I think we can all agree that we have government experience
[(time=1353548940)] <Biyah`Tomb> One doesn't have to be a manipulator to realize they are in a highly visible government position.
[(time=1353548940)] <Insaniac> While that is an idealistic route, I can not agree with it.
[(time=1353548940)] <RabbiCellophane> Why the concern with power VD? What are you plotting?
[(time=1353548940)] <Romanoffia> You need to also have TNP as one's primary objective - no other regions, TNP only.
[(time=1353548940)] --> SleepingFigs joined the channel
[(time=1353548940)] <Kingborough> Insaniac: I don't believe it should be totally divorced from politics, but I don't think it should be used to further personal motivations
[(time=1353548940)] <Romanoffia> TNP is an end unto itself, not a means to an end.
[(time=1353548940)] <Insaniac> Kingborough: We can all agree on that
[(time=1353548940)] <Scandigrad> I can assure you that I have no plots. As a member of the North Pacific, and the North Pacific only, I want what is in the best interest of the region itself, and no other hidden agendas are at play.
[(time=1353548940)] <Insaniac> The motives of the state should be above the motives of the Individual.
[(time=1353549000)] <Romanoffia> No outside loyalties need apply.
[(time=1353549000)] <RabbiCellophane> TNP is an end unto itself...a FEEDER end, not a Userite trash bin.
[(time=1353549000)] <Romanoffia> No 'duality' crap.
[(time=1353549000)] <Kingborough> Exactly, Insaniac
[(time=1353549000)] <Romanoffia> TNP first, last and only.
[(time=1353549000)] <Funkadelia> Romanoffia, duality should not matter
[(time=1353549000)] <Funkadelia> That's insane
[(time=1353549000)] <Romanoffia> Yes it does.
[(time=1353549000)] <Funkadelia> Then we would have only you as a candidate
[(time=1353549000)] <Scandigrad> The VD should be someone who is deeply rooted in the region.
[(time=1353549000)] <Funkadelia> If that were the case
[(time=1353549000)] <Scandigrad> And me
[(time=1353549000)] <Funkadelia> Yes
[(time=1353549000)] <Funkadelia> Sorry
[(time=1353549000)] <Biyah`Tomb> 'The motives of the States' implies that you know what the state requires.
[(time=1353549000)] * Scandigrad is hurt
[(time=1353549000)] <Insaniac> Arguable, the more knowledge the VD has on other regions, the better.
[(time=1353549000)] <Funkadelia> Exactly
[(time=1353549000)] <Chasmanthe> Duty is a means to itself but any position can be used a means to an end.
[(time=1353549000)] <Funkadelia> And the more experience they have from other regions
[(time=1353549060)] <Romanoffia> You can no more separate yourself form multiple identities than you can your head from your arse. No duality. No split loyalties.
[(time=1353549060)] <Insaniac> Being a member of larger regions, regions that may pose a threat to the TNP, is a good thing to have.
[(time=1353549060)] <Funkadelia> Obviously drifters should not hold the position
[(time=1353549060)] <Kingborough> NationStates is quite different in that area, ROman and I beg to differ. Multiple personalities in NS is quite possible
[(time=1353549060)] <Romanoffia> No one who has any outside loyalties should hold the position of Delegate or Vice Delegate.
[(time=1353549060)] <Funkadelia> But the idea that people only ever involved in TNP should hold executive decisions would be asinine
[(time=1353549060)] <RabbiCellophane> Duality is a traitor's tool.
[(time=1353549060)] <Kingborough> Indeed, you can have multiple personalities in RL but normally your insane in that case
[(time=1353549060)] <Funkadelia> So Eluvatar should never have been delegate?
[(time=1353549060)] <Funkadelia> Nor BWII?
[(time=1353549060)] <Kingborough> McM shouldn't be delegate?
[(time=1353549120)] <Romanoffia> No opinon.
[(time=1353549120)] <Funkadelia> Nor McM?
[(time=1353549120)] <Biyah`Tomb> al love to Elu, but you just picked an example that was removed?
[(time=1353549120)] <Romanoffia> That policy is just my course of action, personally.
[(time=1353549120)] <Funkadelia> Well following your logic they shouldnt be
[(time=1353549120)] <Scandigrad> McM didn't have dual citizenships at time of his VD election
[(time=1353549120)] <Kingborough> he said three examples
[(time=1353549120)] <Funkadelia> Biyah, that was not in regards to duality
[(time=1353549120)] <Kingborough> and Elu was removed for inactivity not for any other problem
[(time=1353549120)] <FriarTuck> Eluvatar: proceed to the next question
[(time=1353549120)] <Eluvatar> (As a note, the debate moderator will be enforcing a certain level of decorum.)
[(time=1353549120)] <Romanoffia> My promise is that I represent TNP, and TNP only.
[(time=1353549120)] <Biyah`Tomb> true, true.
[(time=1353549120)] <Eluvatar> Now, the next question.
[(time=1353549120)] <Eluvatar> A bit of a light-hearted one:
[(time=1353549120)] <Eluvatar> Why are you the worst candidate for the job?
[(time=1353549120)] <Kingborough> @Scandi - he did at the time of his delegate election
[(time=1353549120)] <Insaniac> Eluvatar: Is the order mentioned for everything or just each question?
[(time=1353549120)] * Biyah`Tomb shanks the NPO guy before question
[(time=1353549120)] <Eluvatar> Funkadelia: you're up
[(time=1353549120)] <Biyah`Tomb> ... dangit
[(time=1353549180)] <Scandigrad> lul
[(time=1353549180)] <Eluvatar> The order will be ['Funkadelia', 'Chasmanthe', 'Romanoffia', 'Kingborough', 'Scandigrad', 'RabbiCellophane', 'Insaniac', 'Biyah`Tomb']
[(time=1353549180)] <Insaniac> Yes, second to last, brb.
[(time=1353549180)] <Funkadelia> What
[(time=1353549180)] <Funkadelia> Wait what is the question?
[(time=1353549180)] <Eluvatar> Funkadelia: Why are you the worst candidate for the job?
[(time=1353549180)] <Funkadelia> Ah yes
[(time=1353549180)] <Eluvatar> .in 1 minute proceed to Chasmanthe
[(time=1353549180)] <FriarTuck> Eluvatar: Okay, will remind at 01:54Z
[(time=1353549180)] <Funkadelia> Well, I would say that I am because
[(time=1353549180)] <Funkadelia> Relative to some other citizens and candidates I have less experience in the region
[(time=1353549240)] <Funkadelia> While I do understand the process and laws, I feel that I do not in the same way as the TNP veterans
[(time=1353549240)] <Funkadelia> That's all.
[(time=1353549240)] <Eluvatar> Chasmanthe: you're up now:)
[(time=1353549240)] <FriarTuck> Eluvatar: proceed to Chasmanthe
[(time=1353549240)] <Chasmanthe> I'm the worst candidate for the job because I'm naive, and I play the political game badly, and wouldn't create a cult of personality.
[(time=1353549240)] <Eluvatar> .in 1 minute proceed to Romanoffia
[(time=1353549240)] <FriarTuck> Eluvatar: Okay, will remind at 01:55Z
[(time=1353549240)] <Romanoffia> Because I am a bastard of the first order. Because I don't take any [bgcolor=black][expunged][/bgcolor] from anyone, or any [bgcolor=black][expunged][/bgcolor] from outside influences, and I will not compromise on Democratic and Egalitarian principles. That, and if anyone effs with TNP, I will unleash a rash of [bgcolor=black][expunged][/bgcolor] on them like no one has ever seen before. :p
[(time=1353549240)] <Chasmanthe> I also shirk responsibility, have no experience of being in government in NS
[(time=1353549240)] --- Eluvatar changed mode: -v Romanoffia
[(time=1353549300)] <Chasmanthe> and... you can't tell if I'm being serious
[(time=1353549300)] <Chasmanthe> ok, go for it Roman!
[(time=1353549300)] <Eluvatar> Chasmanthe: he went out of turn
[(time=1353549300)] <FriarTuck> Eluvatar: proceed to Romanoffia
[(time=1353549300)] <Eluvatar> Kingborough: you're up
[(time=1353549300)] <Kingborough> I think I answered this question in my campaign thread, so I'll repeat a concise version of that. I am most likely not political enough for my own good, as I have had several clashes with petty politics in real life and do not wish to play those games in a …. well a game. Therefore I can be too honest and open and not shut up when I should be playing political games instead.
[(time=1353549360)] <Kingborough> And some people dislike that in what is a government office holder
[(time=1353549360)] <Eluvatar> Scandigrad: you're up
[(time=1353549360)] <Scandigrad> First off, if I thought I was the worst candidate for the job, I wouldn't run. So I wouldn't say I am the worst candidate. I think the intent of your question though, was to ask what I think my flaws are. My biggest flaw is that some people may think that I won't take this job seriously. As my record as DMoD has demonstrated, when I have a responsibility,
[(time=1353549360)] <Scandigrad> I will follow through.
[(time=1353549360)] <Eluvatar> .in 30s RabbiCellophane is up
[(time=1353549360)] <FriarTuck> Eluvatar: Okay, will remind in 30 secs
[(time=1353549360)] <Eluvatar> or are you done Scandigrad ?
[(time=1353549420)] <Scandigrad> Not done
[(time=1353549420)] <Scandigrad> thinking
[(time=1353549420)] <FriarTuck> Eluvatar: RabbiCellophane is up
[(time=1353549420)] <Scandigrad> I also have not held a position outside of DMoD, which some may see as a flaw.
[(time=1353549420)] <Eluvatar> .in 1 minute proceed to Insaniac
[(time=1353549420)] <FriarTuck> Eluvatar: Okay, will remind at 01:58Z
[(time=1353549420)] <RabbiCellophane> The question assumes that I am flawed, which I am not so I will not answer it.
[(time=1353549480)] <Eluvatar> ... or Insaniac can go now
[(time=1353549480)] <Scandigrad> lul
[(time=1353549480)] <Eluvatar> .in 1 minute proceed to Biyah`Tomb
[(time=1353549480)] <FriarTuck> Eluvatar: Okay, will remind at 01:59Z
[(time=1353549480)] <Insaniac> I am thirteen years old, I swear a little too much and I've yet to read the constitution of the north pacific.
[(time=1353549480)] <Insaniac> Those are the major ones,
[(time=1353549480)] <FriarTuck> Eluvatar: proceed to Insaniac
[(time=1353549480)] <Insaniac> I'm also running this campaign as a parody, that too.
[(time=1353549540)] <FriarTuck> Eluvatar: proceed to Biyah`Tomb
[(time=1353549540)] <Biyah`Tomb> That's easy, who trusts me, I'm sneaky? I'm also too awesome for this crowd, all the Empire and ADN members were. I'd make most of you look like the pawns you are.... almost as bad as I make Molda... NK look. ADN trained its own well. Besides, I'm just in it for the paycheck. :P
[(time=1353549540)] <Biyah`Tomb> done
[(time=1353549540)] <Eluvatar> .in 1 minute FREE FOR ALL
[(time=1353549540)] <FriarTuck> Eluvatar: Okay, will remind at 02:00Z
[(time=1353549540)] <Eluvatar> oh
[(time=1353549540)] --- Eluvatar changed mode: +v Romanoffia
[(time=1353549540)] <Eluvatar> Free for all time, y'all
[(time=1353549540)] <Kingborough> What paycheck?
[(time=1353549540)] <Kingborough> :o
[(time=1353549540)] <Biyah`Tomb> you didn't hear about the paycheck?
[(time=1353549540)] <Biyah`Tomb> you poor, lost soul.
[(time=1353549540)] <Scandigrad> I am the [bgcolor=black][expunged][/bgcolor].
[(time=1353549540)] <Scandigrad> You should vote for me.
[(time=1353549540)] * Scandigrad is done.
[(time=1353549600)] <Romanoffia> This format of debate is BS.
[(time=1353549600)] <Biyah`Tomb> Vote for a pile. Got it.
[(time=1353549600)] <Romanoffia> It is chaotic and doesn't work.
[(time=1353549600)] <FriarTuck> Eluvatar: FREE FOR ALL
[(time=1353549600)] <Funkadelia> There's no need for a free for all on this question.
[(time=1353549600)] <Kingborough> .in 1 minute we've run out of things to say
[(time=1353549600)] <FriarTuck> Kingborough: Okay, will remind at 02:01Z
[(time=1353549600)] <RabbiCellophane> ADN had to pay 'cause who would sincerely follow such a morally-bankrupt army up for the highest Userite bidder?
[(time=1353549600)] <Romanoffia> As I said.
[(time=1353549600)] <Scandigrad> Motion to end free for all?
[(time=1353549600)] <Funkadelia> Seconded
[(time=1353549600)] <Eluvatar> Can do
[(time=1353549600)] <Kingborough> Seconded
[(time=1353549600)] <Biyah`Tomb> actually, we used that money to feed the poor and hungry of the PRP. Amazing how many turned that way.
[(time=1353549600)] <Romanoffia> The problem here is that everyone is more concerned with what is happening with everywhere other than The North Pacific.
[(time=1353549600)] <Eluvatar> our next question is a little odd, How would you support Grosseschnauzer if he was Delegate?
[(time=1353549600)] <Insaniac> Third.
[(time=1353549660)] <Funkadelia> That is not the issue
[(time=1353549660)] <Eluvatar> ['Kingborough', 'Chasmanthe', 'Scandigrad', 'RabbiCellophane', 'Insaniac', 'Biyah`Tomb', 'Funkadelia', 'Romanoffia']
[(time=1353549660)] <Romanoffia> Concentrate on our region, not what everyone else is doing.
[(time=1353549660)] <Eluvatar> Kingborough: you're up :)
[(time=1353549660)] <Funkadelia> And also not on topi
[(time=1353549660)] <Biyah`Tomb> Near last again, wow
[(time=1353549660)] <Kingborough> hmmph
[(time=1353549660)] <Kingborough> I had to be first
[(time=1353549660)] <Eluvatar> .in 1 minute proceed to Chasmanthe
[(time=1353549660)] <Romanoffia> BS.
[(time=1353549660)] <FriarTuck> Eluvatar: Okay, will remind at 02:02Z
[(time=1353549660)] <FriarTuck> Kingborough: we've run out of things to say
[(time=1353549660)] <Romanoffia> Get with the program. TNP first.
[(time=1353549660)] <Romanoffia> That's the problem
[(time=1353549660)] <Romanoffia> Everyone is treating this as a blood-sport.
[(time=1353549660)] <Kingborough> How would I support Grosseschnauzer? Hmmm. I would have to be impartial I guess, and struggle to support him as I wound any other delegate despite our dislike of each other.
[(time=1353549720)] <Kingborough> would*
[(time=1353549720)] <Romanoffia> It's irrelevant.
[(time=1353549720)] <FriarTuck> Eluvatar: proceed to Chasmanthe
[(time=1353549720)] <Chasmanthe> I would do my duties as I would for any other delegate. I think I would it a lot easier to work with Grosse than some people would.
[(time=1353549720)] <Eluvatar> .in 1 minute proceed to Scandigrad
[(time=1353549720)] <FriarTuck> Eluvatar: Okay, will remind at 02:03Z
[(time=1353549720)] <Chasmanthe> It might be interesting to learn what Perpetual TNP Patriot really means.
[(time=1353549780)] <Chasmanthe> I think Roman had a good point of studying the delegate
[(time=1353549780)] <Chasmanthe> Also Grosse isn't online often so I would try to make up for that
[(time=1353549780)] <FriarTuck> Eluvatar: proceed to Scandigrad
[(time=1353549780)] <Scandigrad> This is not a relevant question, or even close to being a relevant hypothetical. I have no comment. The bottom line is that I would support the delegate, whomever it may be.
[(time=1353549780)] <Scandigrad> No further comment.
[(time=1353549780)] <Eluvatar> RabbiCellophane: you're up
[(time=1353549780)] <RabbiCellophane> I would coup him. That way he would have more time to focus on other hobbies.
[(time=1353549780)] <Eluvatar> .in 1 minute proceed to Insaniac
[(time=1353549780)] <FriarTuck> Eluvatar: Okay, will remind at 02:04Z
[(time=1353549840)] <Kingborough> :o
[(time=1353549840)] <RabbiCellophane> Thank you.
[(time=1353549840)] <Eluvatar> Insaniac: you're up :)
[(time=1353549840)] <Insaniac> Parody Answer Time : I would throw turnips at him.
[(time=1353549840)] <Eluvatar> .in 1 minute proceed to Biyah`Tomb
[(time=1353549840)] <FriarTuck> Eluvatar: Okay, will remind at 02:05Z
[(time=1353549840)] <Insaniac> I'm done,
[(time=1353549840)] <FriarTuck> Eluvatar: proceed to Insaniac
[(time=1353549900)] <Eluvatar> Biyah`Tomb: you're up :)
[(time=1353549900)] <Biyah`Tomb> With suspenders. And a lot of chocolate/beer/vice-of-choice to distract him from The Purple. If that didn't work, I'd hold his dogs hostage until he behaved properly.
[(time=1353549900)] <Eluvatar> .in 1 minute proceed to Funkadelia
[(time=1353549900)] <FriarTuck> Eluvatar: Okay, will remind at 02:06Z
[(time=1353549900)] <Biyah`Tomb> More seriously, I'd support him. What else could I do? :P
[(time=1353549900)] <Biyah`Tomb> done
[(time=1353549900)] <FriarTuck> Eluvatar: proceed to Biyah`Tomb
[(time=1353549900)] <Eluvatar> Funkadelia: you're up :)
[(time=1353549900)] <Funkadelia> I feel this question is a tad nonsensical. It is the duty of the Vice Delegate to *always* support his Delegate, no matter who he may be. I have nothing further to say.
[(time=1353549960)] <Eluvatar> Romanoffia: and it's your turn :)
[(time=1353549960)] <FriarTuck> Eluvatar: proceed to Funkadelia
[(time=1353549960)] <Romanoffia> The purpose of the Vice Delegate is to support the Delegate according to the Constitution and the Law. No more, no less. Take that as you may.
[(time=1353549960)] <Romanoffia> Done.
[(time=1353549960)] <Eluvatar> Thank you :)
[(time=1353550020)] <Eluvatar> It seems we didn't enjoy the free for all as much last time as the first
[(time=1353550020)] <Funkadelia> There is no point to this one either
[(time=1353550020)] <Insaniac> Yeah...
[(time=1353550020)] <RabbiCellophane> Elu, may I make an addendum to my answer? I'd like to add an :D at the end.
[(time=1353550020)] <Insaniac> We all share pretty much the same opinion
[(time=1353550020)] <Eluvatar> I'll proceed to the next question.
[(time=1353550020)] <Eluvatar> Question: If the delegate gives notice of absence and is then gone for a month, would you support a recall of them?
[(time=1353550020)] <Chasmanthe> Yeah
[(time=1353550020)] <Insaniac> Wait for the order Chasmanthe
[(time=1353550020)] <Funkadelia> Wait your turn
[(time=1353550020)] <Chasmanthe> oh
[(time=1353550080)] <Eluvatar> I'm trying to shake the order up
[(time=1353550080)] <Chasmanthe> We normally get the order before the question
[(time=1353550080)] <Insaniac> I can offer to go first?
[(time=1353550080)] <Kingborough> just throw it at a wall and do it by which name hits the ground first
[(time=1353550080)] <Chasmanthe> I thought we were in free for all
[(time=1353550080)] <Eluvatar> Funkadelia: you're up
[(time=1353550080)] <Eluvatar> ['Funkadelia', 'Kingborough', 'Scandigrad', 'Biyah`Tomb', 'Chasmanthe', 'RabbiCellophane', 'Insaniac', 'Romanoffia']
[(time=1353550080)] <Funkadelia> oh ok
[(time=1353550140)] <Funkadelia> I would most likely remain neutral on the situation
[(time=1353550140)] <Eluvatar> .in 30 seconds Kingborough will be up
[(time=1353550140)] <FriarTuck> Eluvatar: Okay, will remind in 30 secs
[(time=1353550140)] <Funkadelia> It really depends on the specifics
[(time=1353550140)] <Funkadelia> I can't answer the question precisely, sorry.
[(time=1353550140)] <FriarTuck> Eluvatar: Kingborough will be up
[(time=1353550200)] <Eluvatar> Kingborough: you're up :)
[(time=1353550200)] <Eluvatar> .in 1 minute hit up Scandigrad
[(time=1353550200)] <FriarTuck> Eluvatar: Okay, will remind at 02:11Z
[(time=1353550200)] <Kingborough> That is a hard question. Such a case of disappearance would be very negligent, and against the constitution and would certain earn recall. However I don't think it is the Vice Delegate's place to propose or support such a recall
[(time=1353550200)] <Kingborough> therefore I would have to be neutral in such a situation
[(time=1353550260)] <FriarTuck> Eluvatar: hit up Scandigrad
[(time=1353550260)] <Scandigrad> As the Vice Delegate, I would abstain. I would enforce the will of the people, and be ready to step in, should the people choose the Delegate needs to be recalled. I would only cast a vote in a tie, and only a tie.
[(time=1353550260)] <Eluvatar> .in 1 minute wake up Biyah`Tomb
[(time=1353550260)] <FriarTuck> Eluvatar: Okay, will remind at 02:12Z
[(time=1353550260)] <Scandigrad> No further comment
[(time=1353550260)] <Eluvatar> ah Biyah`Tomb you're up now
[(time=1353550260)] <Biyah`Tomb> That depends on how long the original absence was called for, and the specifics, and the current state of affairs security-wise for TNP. I will not hesitate to support something I believe is necessary, but it -is- all situational.
[(time=1353550260)] <Eluvatar> .in 1 minute buzz Chasmanthe
[(time=1353550260)] <FriarTuck> Eluvatar: Okay, will remind at 02:12Z
[(time=1353550260)] <Biyah`Tomb> done
[(time=1353550260)] <Eluvatar> ah Chasmanthe you're up now
[(time=1353550260)] <Chasmanthe> Yeah
[(time=1353550260)] <Chasmanthe> done
[(time=1353550320)] <Eluvatar> I see..
[(time=1353550320)] <Eluvatar> Romanoffia: you go now
[(time=1353550320)] <Romanoffia> I would proceed according to what the Constitution and Law requires. I think this 'recall' crap has largely devolved into a political weapon or is at least headed that way. Obey the Constitution and the Law. That's it. If that isn't good enough, change the Law and the Constitution. This is not a matter of opinion on the VD's part.
[(time=1353550320)] <Romanoffia> Done.
[(time=1353550320)] <FriarTuck> Eluvatar: wake up Biyah`Tomb
[(time=1353550320)] <FriarTuck> Eluvatar: buzz Chasmanthe
[(time=1353550320)] <Funkadelia> lol
[(time=1353550320)] <Eluvatar> RabbiCellophane: go
[(time=1353550380)] <RabbiCellophane> As VD I would support a recall only if I was certain I could win the special election to follow.
[(time=1353550380)] <RabbiCellophane> Done.
[(time=1353550380)] <Eluvatar> Insaniac: go
[(time=1353550380)] <Biyah`Tomb> LOL
[(time=1353550380)] <Insaniac> I would most definitely support a recall.
[(time=1353550380)] <Eluvatar> Do we want a free for all?
[(time=1353550380)] <Insaniac> They're missing a fourth of their term and the TNP RMB is being flooded with Nazi's
[(time=1353550440)] <Eluvatar> (Or is Insaniac not done?)
[(time=1353550440)] <Insaniac> Also, why would they even run when they know they would miss a fourth of their term?
[(time=1353550440)] <Insaniac> Done now,
Click to expand...
 
#tnp-debate:
[(time=1353550440)] <Eluvatar> Okay, next question
[(time=1353550440)] <Eluvatar> the order will be ['Romanoffia', 'Funkadelia', 'Scandigrad', 'Kingborough', 'Biyah`Tomb', 'Chasmanthe', 'Insaniac', 'RabbiCellophane']
[(time=1353550440)] <Funkadelia> Cute
[(time=1353550440)] <Eluvatar> The Vice Delegate chairs the Security Council. As Chair, they also have the power to control whether the Delegate has access to private Security Council deliberations. What is an appropriate test for deciding whether the Delegate should have access?
[(time=1353550440)] <Eluvatar> Romanoffia: you're up :)
[(time=1353550500)] <Romanoffia> I don't really think there is any point in denying the Delegate access to the SC section...
[(time=1353550500)] --> Iro joined the channel
[(time=1353550500)] <Romanoffia> The Delegate would find out anyway and that transmits a message that we are always suspicious of the Delegate...
[(time=1353550500)] <Eluvatar> Let me be clear.
[(time=1353550500)] <Romanoffia> Which is a bad message to send...
[(time=1353550560)] <Romanoffia> Yes?
[(time=1353550560)] <Eluvatar> The SC rules say the Chair can decide at any point to grant or take away access.
[(time=1353550560)] <Romanoffia> Of course.
[(time=1353550560)] <Eluvatar> It's not a permanent decision, but an ongoing one.
[(time=1353550560)] <Eluvatar> .in 30s poke Funkadelia
[(time=1353550560)] <FriarTuck> Eluvatar: Okay, will remind in 30 secs
[(time=1353550620)] <Romanoffia> It would take a really good reason for me to deny access to the Delegate as it would cut off a channel of communication.
[(time=1353550620)] <Romanoffia> Done.
[(time=1353550620)] --> Delfos joined the channel
[(time=1353550620)] <Eluvatar> Funkadelia: you're up :)
[(time=1353550620)] <Funkadelia> I feel that by default the Delegate should have access to the Security Council private sections.
[(time=1353550620)] <FriarTuck> Eluvatar: poke Funkadelia
[(time=1353550620)] <Eluvatar> The Vice Delegate chairs the Security Council. As Chair, they also have the power to control whether the Delegate has access to private Security Council deliberations. What is an appropriate test for deciding whether the Delegate should have access?
[(time=1353550620)] <Eluvatar> ack
[(time=1353550620)] <Funkadelia> However, if the Delegate has proven himself to be suspicious
[(time=1353550620)] <Funkadelia> And I mean very suspicious
[(time=1353550620)] <Funkadelia> Then that access should properly be revoked
[(time=1353550680)] <Funkadelia> But it is vital for the head of the government to have vital security information
[(time=1353550680)] <Eluvatar> All right now I'm going to pass the conch to Scandigrad
[(time=1353550680)] <Scandigrad> I don't see a point in allowing the delegate access to the SC section. It's part of the checks and balances that I believe are built into the private areas for a reason. As VD, I would still brief the delegate on all SC matters, unless the matters concern the delegate him/herself.
[(time=1353550680)] <Eluvatar> okay, are you done?
[(time=1353550680)] <Eluvatar> well
[(time=1353550680)] <Scandigrad> Sure, there'd be transparency in allowing the delegate access, but I also think it would make the delegate a bit on edge if suddenly their privileges were revoked.
[(time=1353550740)] <Eluvatar> Biyah`Tomb: you're up now :)
[(time=1353550740)] <Biyah`Tomb> How many cookies and bottles of booze is the delegate going to give me? I learned, from the PRP, just how useful that test can be... the more they offer, the less you trust them. Don't trust NK, he offered me Crimson Rum if I supported him - and that stuff is rare now.
[(time=1353550740)] <Biyah`Tomb> Odds are it would depend on the delegate, I tailor my standards to individuals - not to job descriptions. I'm usually a good judge of security trustworthiness. Being old hand intel, I'm a big believer in 'need to know' though.
[(time=1353550740)] <Biyah`Tomb> done
[(time=1353550740)] <Eluvatar> Chasmanthe: you're up :)
[(time=1353550800)] <Chasmanthe> I think the Delegate should not have access to SC private discussions
[(time=1353550800)] <Chasmanthe> as Scan said, any time it is removed would make the Delegate nervous
[(time=1353550800)] <Chasmanthe> it's better to have it always off
[(time=1353550800)] <Eluvatar> Insaniac: gogogogo
[(time=1353550800)] <Insaniac> A Delegate isn't trustworthy/untrustworthy, that falls to Individuals
[(time=1353550800)] <Chasmanthe> and it would mean a consistently secure environment for the SC
[(time=1353550800)] <Insaniac> I concur with Biyah in that it matters on the person who is delegate at that time.
[(time=1353550860)] <Insaniac> Done.
[(time=1353550860)] <Eluvatar> RabbiCellophane: you're down
[(time=1353550860)] <Eluvatar> I mean up
[(time=1353550860)] <RabbiCellophane> The main thing to consider is will giving the delegate access reduce my power?
[(time=1353550860)] <RabbiCellophane> Done.
[(time=1353550860)] <Eluvatar> okay
[(time=1353550860)] <Eluvatar> Do you want to discuss this one?
[(time=1353550860)] <Insaniac> Hmm,
[(time=1353550860)] <Insaniac> Demends
[(time=1353550920)] <Funkadelia> Yes
[(time=1353550920)] <Insaniac> Scandigrad
[(time=1353550920)] <Funkadelia> I do
[(time=1353550920)] <Chasmanthe> Can I add to my answer?
[(time=1353550920)] <Eluvatar> Feel free
[(time=1353550920)] <Eluvatar> just beware you may be interrupted
[(time=1353550920)] <Insaniac> Okay, let's discuss.
[(time=1353550920)] <Eluvatar> .in 3 minutes ping ping
[(time=1353550920)] <FriarTuck> Eluvatar: Okay, will remind at 02:25Z
[(time=1353550920)] <Chasmanthe> Well I would definitely include the delegate on a short-term basis if the SC were all in agreement with doing it at the time
[(time=1353550920)] <Biyah`Tomb> don't trust NK Booze
[(time=1353550920)] <Biyah`Tomb> that is all
[(time=1353550920)] <Funkadelia> I'd just like to say that based on the points presented by my fellow candidates I would like to change my opinon on the matter.
[(time=1353550920)] <Chasmanthe> but as a one-off
[(time=1353550920)] <Insaniac> Wouldn't the best thing to happen is allowing the delegate into cases that the SC deems it necessary they see.
[(time=1353550920)] <RabbiCellophane> ADN beer is watered down goat piss.
[(time=1353550980)] <RabbiCellophane> That is all.
[(time=1353550980)] <Funkadelia> It is probably a better idea to keep it off always so they don't have to be worried
[(time=1353550980)] <Romanoffia> Let's talk about the trustwortiness of the current delegate. I trust McM. Therefore I have no reason to deny him access to the entirety of the SC section of the forum.
[(time=1353550980)] <Eluvatar> As a practical matter there is one and only one SC private area.
[(time=1353550980)] --> Kingborough joined the channel
[(time=1353550980)] <Eluvatar> ah Kingborough you can answer it
[(time=1353550980)] --- Eluvatar changed mode: +v Kingborough
[(time=1353550980)] <Biyah`Tomb> ... you'd know about goat piss.
[(time=1353550980)] <Insaniac> However, the necessary case thing should be only used in rare occasions, as to make sure the delegate remembers it's only a short time thing.
[(time=1353550980)] <Eluvatar> we'll pause the free-for-all
[(time=1353550980)] <Kingborough> ?
[(time=1353550980)] <Eluvatar> The Vice Delegate chairs the Security Council. As Chair, they also have the power to control whether the Delegate has access to private Security Council deliberations. What is an appropriate test for deciding whether the Delegate should have access?
[(time=1353550980)] <Eluvatar> Kingborough: what do you say?
[(time=1353551040)] <Kingborough> I believe the delegates background should be taken into account, as well as their personality and trustworthiness and their actions during their time in the region.
[(time=1353551040)] <Insaniac> Is the free-for-all back on?
[(time=1353551040)] <Eluvatar> Kingborough: are you done?
[(time=1353551040)] <Kingborough> yes
[(time=1353551040)] * Biyah`Tomb whacks Insaniac with his cane
[(time=1353551100)] <Biyah`Tomb> shush, youngster
[(time=1353551100)] <Eluvatar> Continue free-for-all then
[(time=1353551100)] <Insaniac> Biyah`Tomb: No, I don't know about Goat Piss
[(time=1353551100)] <Insaniac> Expand please?
[(time=1353551100)] <Romanoffia> A test for the Delegate to have access to the private areas of the SC deliberation should be based upon the actions and track record of the Delegate as Delegate. Give the benefit of a doubt. Not guilty until proven otherwise I always say.
[(time=1353551100)] <Eluvatar> .in 2 minutes ping ping ping
[(time=1353551100)] <FriarTuck> Eluvatar: ping ping
[(time=1353551100)] <FriarTuck> Eluvatar: Okay, will remind at 02:27Z
[(time=1353551100)] <Biyah`Tomb> Ask NK, he's apparently tasted it
[(time=1353551100)] <Biyah`Tomb> since he compared my fine stout to said liquid
[(time=1353551100)] <RabbiCellophane> Fine stout?
[(time=1353551100)] <Biyah`Tomb> the man has been eating too many paint chips, apparently.
[(time=1353551100)] <Funkadelia> Could we keep this discussion on topic please?
[(time=1353551100)] <Eluvatar> Sure.
[(time=1353551100)] <Romanoffia> Stout.
[(time=1353551160)] <RabbiCellophane> Dear fellow kissing PH's behind all these years has ruined your taste buds.
[(time=1353551160)] <Insaniac> Romanoffia: Individuals have histories, histories have to be considered in positions such as Delegate.
[(time=1353551160)] <RabbiCellophane> Done.
[(time=1353551160)] <Romanoffia> Of course.
[(time=1353551160)] <Chasmanthe> who is PH?
[(time=1353551160)] <Eluvatar> Pope Hope
[(time=1353551160)] <Funkadelia> I feel that it would be better to just keep it off all the time, and give them as much or as little as you feel they need to know
[(time=1353551160)] * Biyah`Tomb has nothing more to add to the official conversation, heh
[(time=1353551160)] <Eluvatar> Leader of the Alliance Defense Network, 2003-2005
[(time=1353551160)] <Insaniac> I thought Pope Hope was a raider. O-O
[(time=1353551160)] <Eluvatar> The more you know.
[(time=1353551160)] <Romanoffia> Pope Hope. Haven't heard that name in a while.
[(time=1353551160)] * Funkadelia sighs
[(time=1353551160)] <Eluvatar> .n Pope-a-hope
[(time=1353551160)] <FriarTuck> Eluvatar: http://www.nationstates.net/nation=pope-a-hope
[(time=1353551220)] <Scandigrad> Motion to move on
[(time=1353551220)] <Eluvatar> ^ she's in TNP too
[(time=1353551220)] <Eluvatar> Agreed.
[(time=1353551220)] <Eluvatar> Next question:
[(time=1353551220)] <Insaniac> Motion to shift to a new question.
[(time=1353551220)] <Romanoffia> ;D
[(time=1353551220)] <Eluvatar> Would you be willing to work with people who were also members of the UDL? And do you feel that people in the UDL can be trusted?
[(time=1353551220)] <FriarTuck> Eluvatar: ping ping ping
[(time=1353551220)] <Eluvatar> order will be ['RabbiCellophane', 'Chasmanthe', 'Biyah`Tomb', 'Romanoffia', 'Kingborough', 'Insaniac', 'Scandigrad', 'Funkadelia']
[(time=1353551220)] <Eluvatar> RabbiCellophane: you're up :)
[(time=1353551220)] <RabbiCellophane> Sure I would whether it's co-authoring resolutions or doing missions. I would be delighted to.
[(time=1353551280)] <Eluvatar> Are you saying you'd deploy on missions as Vice Delegate?
[(time=1353551280)] <Eluvatar> Chasmanthe: your turn
[(time=1353551340)] <Chasmanthe> Yes. Some of our SC members are UDL so I would have to anyway.
[(time=1353551340)] <Chasmanthe> I have a slight wariness of UDL in some situtations.
[(time=1353551340)] <Chasmanthe> I think they can be trusted
[(time=1353551340)] <Chasmanthe> but the question depends on what you trust them with
[(time=1353551340)] <Chasmanthe> I would generally be happy to work with UDL members.
[(time=1353551400)] <Eluvatar> Biyah`Tomb: it's your turn
[(time=1353551400)] --> Durkadurkiranistan joined the channel
[(time=1353551400)] <Biyah`Tomb> I'll work with anyone that doesn't have an alternate agenda. The better question is - do I think UDL members here have an agenda? Not enough information to process, they get the benefit of the doubt until then. I rather doubt they do, the bulk of UDL'ers are fine with plenty to do that doesn't involve messing around with TNPs internal politics for their own gains.
[(time=1353551400)] <Biyah`Tomb> done
[(time=1353551400)] <Eluvatar> Romanoffia: the floor is yours
[(time=1353551460)] <Romanoffia> I trust people as individuals, but I also consider their allegiances and history of allegiances, naturally. I also consider whether or not the leopard has changed his shorts before making a decision as to whether or not to trust them. As outside element, the UDL can be trusted to do the UDL's bidding. As an overlapping allegiance with TNP citizens, I can say they can be loyal to TNP but only...
[(time=1353551460)] <Romanoffia> ...if their actions of loyalty speak louder than the rumors. And this is why I say primary loyalty should be to TNP for all TNP citizens and RA members. Exclusive loyalty is the only near garantee fo true loyalty.
[(time=1353551460)] <Romanoffia> Done.
[(time=1353551460)] <Eluvatar> Kingborough: think fast! *throws conch*
[(time=1353551520)] --> Kingborough_ joined the channel
[(time=1353551520)] <Eluvatar> Kingborough_: it's your turn and it's about up
[(time=1353551580)] <Eluvatar> Would you be willing to work with people who were also members of the UDL? And do you feel that people in the UDL can be trusted?
[(time=1353551580)] <Eluvatar> I'll give you another few seconds
[(time=1353551580)] <Eluvatar> 30 to be exact
[(time=1353551580)] --- Eluvatar changed mode: +v Kingborough
[(time=1353551580)] <Eluvatar> yeah sorry about that >.<
[(time=1353551580)] <Kingborough> Sorry for my internet
[(time=1353551640)] <Kingborough> In response to the question, yes I can work with people who are members of the UDL but I would naturally have to consider how much I could trust them on a case by case basis
[(time=1353551640)] <Kingborough> Thats all from me
[(time=1353551640)] <Eluvatar> Insaniac: Simon says answer the question
[(time=1353551640)] <Insaniac> I would most definitely work with members of the UDL, I am not a believer in Guilt by Association and I have no reason not to work with them other than that they are close to Unibot, ergo no reason. On the topic of trust, I trust individuals and those individuals have to earn my trust, that same sentiment extends to UDL members.
[(time=1353551700)] <Insaniac> Also, Simon is a coward, I don't listen to him much.
[(time=1353551700)] <Eluvatar> Insaniac: are you done?
[(time=1353551700)] <Insaniac> (Le Finished)
[(time=1353551700)] <Insaniac> Yes
[(time=1353551700)] <Eluvatar> Scandigrad: gogogo
[(time=1353551700)] <Scandigrad> I think it's rather obvious that I would have to work with people who are also members of the UDL. As for trust, I would do whatever the delegate desires. If the delegate trusts the UDL, then I will. As for the people of the UDL, for the most part, I see no reason for distrust. No further comment.
[(time=1353551700)] <Eluvatar> Funkadelia: and last but not least... Funkadelia !
[(time=1353551700)] <Eluvatar> (go)
[(time=1353551760)] <Funkadelia> I would certainly be happy to work with members of the UDL on things. There is no real reason not to, and it's just silly conspiracy stuff otherwise. Do I trust people who are part of the UDL? I will not generalize on that. That is a case by case, or rather person by person basis.
[(time=1353551760)] <Funkadelia> Some people, I may find will have UDL based intentions
[(time=1353551760)] <Funkadelia> Or rather agendas that are a little too pro UDL
[(time=1353551760)] <Eluvatar> All right.
[(time=1353551760)] <Insaniac> We all agree that we can work with the UDL and that trust is designed on a case by case basis, so no need for a free for all, right?
[(time=1353551760)] <Eluvatar> Do we want a forum?
[(time=1353551760)] <Funkadelia> But that is not every single UDL member. I would be totally fine working with them and trusting them, if they prove to me they earn it
[(time=1353551820)] <RabbiCellophane> Motion to next question.
[(time=1353551820)] <Insaniac> Motion seconded
[(time=1353551820)] <Eluvatar> all right.
[(time=1353551820)] <Eluvatar> Bel asks if the candidates would support a war against Balder if Balder doesn't give Bel a chance to confront his accusers?
[(time=1353551820)] <Scandigrad> I motion to not go into free for all, due to the sensitive nature of the topic
[(time=1353551820)] <Eluvatar> Biyah`Tomb: you're up :)
[(time=1353551820)] <Eluvatar> ['Biyah`Tomb', 'RabbiCellophane', 'Insaniac', 'Romanoffia', 'Kingborough', 'Funkadelia', 'Scandigrad', 'Chasmanthe']
[(time=1353551820)] <Biyah`Tomb> That depends, can the VD join in? :P
[(time=1353551820)] <Eluvatar> that's the order this time
[(time=1353551880)] <Biyah`Tomb> I'd rather not see a war of two GCRs right now, not when I'm trying to get a big paycheck and fancy company car. Sorry, Bel :P
[(time=1353551880)] <Eluvatar> Bel asks that I say "Bel was joking [obscenity]"
[(time=1353551880)] <Eluvatar> For what it's worth.
[(time=1353551880)] <Biyah`Tomb> oh, and done.
[(time=1353551940)] <Eluvatar> RabbiCellophane: avast!
[(time=1353551940)] <Eluvatar> (Yarrr up)
[(time=1353551940)] * Biyah`Tomb beats Elu with a peg leg
[(time=1353551940)] <RabbiCellophane> Only if we could make Balder a province of the Northern Empire.
[(time=1353551940)] <Biyah`Tomb> ... NOW Im done
[(time=1353551940)] <RabbiCellophane> Done.
[(time=1353551940)] <Eluvatar> Insaniac: break a leg!
[(time=1353552000)] <Eluvatar> (and amputate it and put on a peg leg, yarr)
[(time=1353552000)] <Eluvatar> (you're up)
[(time=1353552000)] <Insaniac> Well, if this situation was real, I would say no.
[(time=1353552000)] <Insaniac> TNP should not declare war on regions, this is NS and people have a right to do what they want.
[(time=1353552000)] <Insaniac> However, TNP should dissassociate with said region, TNP shouldn't be in relations with regions that violate the rights of their citizens
[(time=1353552000)] <Insaniac> Finished.
[(time=1353552000)] <Eluvatar> Romanoffia: you're up :)
[(time=1353552000)] <Romanoffia> Would I support a war against balder if Bell doesn't get a chance to confront his accusers? That's Balder's decision, not TNP's. We need not get involved in influencing the internal affairs of another region any more than they should get involved in ours. That issue is matter between Bel and Balder and none of our business. We cannot be used as a pawn in someone's personal conflict. If Bel...
[(time=1353552000)] <Romanoffia> ...wants a war with Balder, let him wage it himself.
[(time=1353552060)] <Romanoffia> Boink. That's all. Done.
[(time=1353552060)] <Eluvatar> Kingborough: gogogo
[(time=1353552060)] <Kingborough> I would support diplomatic sanctions if he was not granted a trial, but I think war would be rather too harsh a response.
[(time=1353552120)] <Eluvatar> Funkadelia: WALK THE PLANK
[(time=1353552120)] <Eluvatar> (answer)
[(time=1353552120)] <Funkadelia> No.
[(time=1353552120)] <Funkadelia> That is all.
[(time=1353552180)] <Eluvatar> We appear to have lost our Scandigrad
[(time=1353552180)] <Eluvatar> Chasmanthe: go!
[(time=1353552180)] <Chasmanthe> No, I wouldn't.
[(time=1353552180)] <Chasmanthe> War should be a decision for the cabinet or the assembly.
[(time=1353552180)] <Chasmanthe> Also the grounds are a joke
[(time=1353552240)] <Eluvatar> Is there interest in debating this further?
[(time=1353552240)] <Insaniac> Non, c'est barbant
[(time=1353552240)] <Romanoffia> Heck no.
[(time=1353552240)] <Eluvatar> all right
[(time=1353552240)] <Kingborough> No
[(time=1353552240)] <Eluvatar> The next question is...
[(time=1353552240)] <Eluvatar> What is your opinion on the VD also being a member of the delegate's government (Council) (which some of you are also running for) ?
[(time=1353552240)] <Eluvatar> After this we will be going to a town hall format for the remainder
[(time=1353552240)] <Eluvatar> Romanoffia: you're up first
[(time=1353552240)] <Eluvatar> er
[(time=1353552240)] * Insaniac hopes he's first
[(time=1353552240)] <Eluvatar> Sorry, that's RabbiCellophane
[(time=1353552240)] <Insaniac> dayum.
[(time=1353552240)] * Eluvatar curses his tab-complete
[(time=1353552240)] <RabbiCellophane> He can go first.
[(time=1353552240)] <RabbiCellophane> I'll go after.
[(time=1353552240)] <Eluvatar> no :P
[(time=1353552300)] * RabbiCellophane is typing then
[(time=1353552300)] <RabbiCellophane> It's kinda stupid not to be a part of the del's government.
[(time=1353552300)] <Funkadelia> What is the order?
[(time=1353552300)] <RabbiCellophane> Done.
[(time=1353552300)] <Eluvatar> ['RabbiCellophane', 'Biyah`Tomb', 'Romanoffia', 'Funkadelia', 'Scandigrad', 'Chasmanthe', 'Kingborough', 'Insaniac']
[(time=1353552300)] <Eluvatar> Biyah`Tomb: you're up
[(time=1353552300)] <Biyah`Tomb> Seperation of Council and State. Both are political positions, save some for everybody.
[(time=1353552300)] <Biyah`Tomb> done
[(time=1353552360)] <Eluvatar> Romanoffia: it's a your a turn
[(time=1353552360)] <Romanoffia> Heck, why not. The Co5, or is it Co6? :p Anyway, it doesn't matter, IMHO. If I get elected VD, I can resign my position on the Council if it is desired.
[(time=1353552360)] <Romanoffia> I think generally speaking...
[(time=1353552360)] <Romanoffia> One position is enough...
[(time=1353552360)] <Romanoffia> If I win VD, I have no problems ceding a Council position.
[(time=1353552420)] <Romanoffia> or vice versa.
[(time=1353552420)] <Eluvatar> Funkadelia: Speak, now, or be forever silent
[(time=1353552420)] <Romanoffia> I'm not in it for power.
[(time=1353552420)] <Funkadelia> I feel that the Vice Delegate should *not* be part of the council. It is a bit silly to hold two positions. You are Vice Delegate, not a council member, not both.
[(time=1353552420)] <Funkadelia> However
[(time=1353552420)] --> Erastide joined the channel
[(time=1353552420)] <Funkadelia> I feel that the Vice Delegate *should* be in the cabinet, just not as an official ministry position
[(time=1353552420)] <Funkadelia> if that makes senser
[(time=1353552480)] <Funkadelia> sense*
[(time=1353552480)] <Eluvatar> A Council of Seven?
[(time=1353552480)] <Funkadelia> Something like that
[(time=1353552480)] <Funkadelia> The VD would have no responsibilities
[(time=1353552480)] <Funkadelia> But they will be involved in the council
[(time=1353552480)] <Funkadelia> And decision making
[(time=1353552480)] <Funkadelia> Well they would have responsibilities but yeah
[(time=1353552480)] <Eluvatar> Chasmanthe: you're up @_@
[(time=1353552480)] <Funkadelia> Not a ministry
[(time=1353552480)] <Chasmanthe> I think it can go either way
[(time=1353552540)] <Chasmanthe> It depends on the level of accountability
[(time=1353552540)] <Chasmanthe> if a councillor who is VD is not particularly accountable
[(time=1353552540)] <Chasmanthe> then maybe a bad idea they do both
[(time=1353552540)] <Chasmanthe> so I generally favour them being separate people
[(time=1353552600)] <Chasmanthe> but I would not give the VD a vote on the council if they were not a councillor
[(time=1353552600)] <Eluvatar> Kingborough: you're up O_O
[(time=1353552600)] <Chasmanthe> they could be invited on discretion
[(time=1353552600)] <Eluvatar> Chasmanthe: thank you
[(time=1353552600)] <Kingborough> I think the present situation regarding the VD and Co6 has worked fine and doesn't need changing
[(time=1353552660)] <Eluvatar> Insaniac: you go guy
[(time=1353552660)] <Insaniac> If the Vice Delegate has enough time and can successfully do both jobs,
[(time=1353552660)] <Insaniac> then why the hell not.
[(time=1353552660)] <Insaniac> I'm done,
[(time=1353552660)] <Eluvatar> all right
[(time=1353552720)] --- Eluvatar changed mode: -m
[(time=1353552720)] <Eluvatar> And now for an open town hall
[(time=1353552720)] <Funkadelia> yay
[(time=1353552720)] <Eluvatar> Let's see what happens
[(time=1353552720)] <Funkadelia> Wait
[(time=1353552720)] <Romanoffia> Can I make a Gaff?
[(time=1353552720)] <Romanoffia> ;D
[(time=1353552720)] <RabbiCellophane> candidate specific questons right?
[(time=1353552720)] <Eluvatar> We will end the debate in 8 minutes unless there is widespread demand to continue
[(time=1353552720)] <Eluvatar> Candidate specific questions are allowed.
[(time=1353552720)] <Funkadelia> Oh ok yes please :)
[(time=1353552720)] <Eluvatar> But other candidates can speak in response as well.
[(time=1353552720)] <Insaniac> Widespread demand to continue?
[(time=1353552720)] <Insaniac> Vhat?
[(time=1353552780)] <Insaniac> Romanoffia: What is your position on Turnips and the love they don't get in TNP?
[(time=1353552780)] <Eluvatar> I'm ending the debate at 0300 UTC unless everyone wants to keep going, Insaniac
[(time=1353552780)] <Insaniac> Oh, ohk Eluvatar
[(time=1353552780)] <Romanoffia> I like turnips!
[(time=1353552780)] * Biyah`Tomb kicks back and waits
[(time=1353552780)] <Romanoffia> And pie too!
[(time=1353552780)] <Insaniac> Ohk.
[(time=1353552780)] <Eluvatar> Insaniac: do you like turtles?
[(time=1353552780)] <Insaniac> Biyah`Tomb: What is your opinion on this serious topic?
[(time=1353552780)] <Chasmanthe> because 3am is pretty late ;)
[(time=1353552780)] <Romanoffia> Can I ask a question of all the candidates? ;D
[(time=1353552780)] <Bel> I'd just like to say that I think having the VD as a Council member would not make sense. They are the Delegates Deputy; just as other Council members have deputies who are in cabinet meetings but lack votes, so to the Delegates deputy should not have a vote
[(time=1353552780)] <Insaniac> Eluvatar: I hear your nation is inhabited by them, so no.
[(time=1353552780)] <Insaniac> :P
[(time=1353552780)] <Biyah`Tomb> Turtoles are AWESOME
[(time=1353552780)] <Kingborough> Question for everybody; How did you come by your NS name?
[(time=1353552780)] <Biyah`Tomb> ... great in stew
[(time=1353552780)] <Bel> Unless the delegate isn't there, then they can act for him
[(time=1353552780)] <Biyah`Tomb> I posted my reply to that in my thread, Kingborough :P
[(time=1353552840)] <Insaniac> Bel: Did I just misinterpret the question?
[(time=1353552840)] <Romanoffia> If Great Bights Mum showed up on your doorstep naked, would you invite her in for tea?
[(time=1353552840)] <Eluvatar> Bel: wasn't there something else you wanted to say?
[(time=1353552840)] <Bel> Not a question
[(time=1353552840)] <Eluvatar> On the record?
[(time=1353552840)] <Bel> Oh, yes
[(time=1353552840)] <Funkadelia> My NS name is based off of the band Funkadelic. I just changed it to a nation name.
[(time=1353552840)] <Insaniac> Bel: No, the question Elu asked.
[(time=1353552840)] <Chasmanthe> Romanoffia: Yes
[(time=1353552840)] <Insaniac> I think I ministerpreted it. :P
[(time=1353552840)] <Erastide> I would give GBM some clothes >_>
[(time=1353552840)] <Romanoffia> Great! BGM is a babe in RL!
[(time=1353552840)] <Romanoffia> ;D
[(time=1353552840)] <Eluvatar> Erastide: you're supposed to ask questions, not answer them!
[(time=1353552840)] <Bel> I want it on the record that I am not proposing making war on TNP. That was meant to be a joke, Elu simply has no sense of humour.
[(time=1353552840)] <RabbiCellophane> I don't even remember how I came up with my NS name.
[(time=1353552840)] * Eluvatar coughs
[(time=1353552840)] <Funkadelia> Bel, I would like to respond to that
[(time=1353552840)] <-- Kingborough left the channel
[(time=1353552840)] <Chasmanthe> Kingborough: Flemingovia sent it to me in a dream. Which was amazing because I hadn't met him at that time.
[(time=1353552840)] <Eluvatar> TNP declaring war on TNP would be most outre
[(time=1353552900)] <Insaniac> Romanoffia: I would be scared how she found out where I live, I don't know what she looks like so I would probably call the cops.
[(time=1353552900)] <Biyah`Tomb> I was watching the movie Willow
[(time=1353552900)] <Biyah`Tomb> and when I came to that screen, the Brownie/beer seen came up
[(time=1353552900)] <Bel> Lol
[(time=1353552900)] <Bel> I meant Balder :P
[(time=1353552900)] <Funkadelia> I want to say that I feel that the VD *should* be involved with the cabinet
[(time=1353552900)] <Funkadelia> It should have an administrative sort of role in the council
[(time=1353552900)] <Romanoffia> InsaniacRomanoffia: I would be scared how she found out where I live, I don't know what she looks like so I would probably call the cops. ---------- LOL! GBM is one of the few people in NS who actually know who I am in RL.
[(time=1353552900)] <Funkadelia> But not the responsibilities of a minister
[(time=1353552960)] <Mahaj> ooh we're off mute
[(time=1353552960)] <Eluvatar> Yes Mahaj it's a town hall
[(time=1353552960)] <Eluvatar> feel free to ask questions of any or all candidates
[(time=1353552960)] <Mahaj> okay
[(time=1353552960)] <Insaniac> Okay, something that wasn't even touched on.
[(time=1353552960)] <Insaniac> Military Allegiance and the NPA.
[(time=1353552960)] <Insaniac> The Vice Del, has considerable influence.
[(time=1353552960)] <Chasmanthe> Mahaj sorry for not responding to what you said on the other channel.
[(time=1353552960)] <Mahaj> its k
[(time=1353552960)] <Insaniac> How would you use that influence when dealing with the NPA?
[(time=1353553020)] <Funkadelia> Could people please have some sort of decorum
[(time=1353553020)] <Mahaj> i have a question too: how agressively would you vote stack in favor of WA resolutions authored by TNPers?
[(time=1353553020)] <Insaniac> Mahaj: I don't support resolution just because they're TNP authored, I support resolutions based on quality and objective.
[(time=1353553080)] <Funkadelia> damn it insaniac
[(time=1353553080)] <Eluvatar> Mahaj: this is a Vice Delegate debate >.>
[(time=1353553080)] <Funkadelia> You stole my answer :(
[(time=1353553080)] <Mahaj> oh, true
[(time=1353553080)] <Mahaj> [bgcolor=black][expunged][/bgcolor]
[(time=1353553080)] <Mahaj> uh
[(time=1353553080)] <-- Neenee left the channel
[(time=1353553080)] <Eluvatar> Obscenity will be excised from the record.
[(time=1353553080)] <Chasmanthe> I would not stack aggressively. I might encourage debate on them.
[(time=1353553080)] <Mahaj> sorry
[(time=1353553080)] <Mahaj> *if* you were delegate, would you?
[(time=1353553080)] <Insaniac> No
[(time=1353553080)] <Mahaj> agressively being, you'd take the fact that they were TNPers into account and vote on it at the beginning, to give it a bump?
[(time=1353553080)] <Romanoffia> EluvatarObscenity will be excised from the record. -------------- No [bgcolor=black][expunged][/bgcolor]!
[(time=1353553140)] <Mahaj> not even the fact that it'd be like a bonus for being a TNPer?
[(time=1353553140)] <Biyah`Tomb> that assumes Im delegate, which would be some far-reaching ambition :P
[(time=1353553140)] <Insaniac> Yeah!
[(time=1353553140)] <Insaniac> Biyah`Tomb being delegate, what lunacy
[(time=1353553140)] <Insaniac> :P
[(time=1353553140)] <Eluvatar> We've run down to the end.
[(time=1353553140)] <Insaniac> One more minute. D:
Click to expand...
 
#tnp-debate:
[(time=1353553140)] <Eluvatar> Would you like to give closing statements?
[(time=1353553140)] <Funkadelia> Yes
[(time=1353553140)] <Eluvatar> All right.
[(time=1353553200)] <Romanoffia> InsaniacBiyah`Tomb being delegate, what lunacy ------------- It would be fun, though, when you think of it. :p
[(time=1353553200)] <Eluvatar> Chasmanthe will go first, starting a minute from now.
[(time=1353553200)] <Eluvatar> Closing statements will be for 2 minutes.
[(time=1353553200)] <Eluvatar> The order will be:
[(time=1353553200)] <Chasmanthe> If you can't vote for me, vote for Romanoffia.
[(time=1353553200)] <Eluvatar> ['Chasmanthe', 'Kingborough', 'Scandigrad', 'Funkadelia', 'Insaniac', 'RabbiCellophane', 'Biyah`Tomb', 'Romanoffia']
[(time=1353553200)] <Biyah`Tomb> yes, it would be awesome :P
[(time=1353553200)] <Eluvatar> (Scandigrad likely won't speak of course)
[(time=1353553260)] <Eluvatar> Chasmanthe: please proceed
[(time=1353553260)] <Chasmanthe> oh I said it already
[(time=1353553260)] <Eluvatar> all right. Kingborough is away as well.
[(time=1353553260)] <Eluvatar> Funkadelia: your closing statement?
[(time=1353553320)] <Funkadelia> Please vote for me. I feel I could give TNP with an all around good Vice Delegate, and one who keeps the security of the region paramout
[(time=1353553320)] <Funkadelia> paramount*
[(time=1353553320)] <Funkadelia> (I would make it more developed but I can't think :p)
[(time=1353553380)] <Insaniac> Eluvatar: Is it my turn?
[(time=1353553380)] <Eluvatar> If Funkadelia is done
[(time=1353553380)] <Funkadelia> yes
[(time=1353553380)] <Eluvatar> Insaniac: please dazzle us with your turnip-filled closing
[(time=1353553380)] <Insaniac> Vote for Thomas [bgcolor=black][expunged][/bgcolor] Insaniac, if you want to [bgcolor=black][expunged][/bgcolor] up. I am a total [bgcolor=black][expunged][/bgcolor] lunatic and if I win this [bgcolor=black][expunged][/bgcolor] election, I will be [bgcolor=black][expunged][/bgcolor] surprised. Also, I [bgcolor=black][expunged][/bgcolor] love given Eluvatar more [bgcolor=black][expunged][/bgcolor] words to [bgcolor=black][expunged][/bgcolor] expunge, [bgcolor=black][expunged][/bgcolor] yeah. Also, if you can't [bgcolor=black][expunged][/bgcolor] vote for me, Fundakelia [bgcolor=black][expunged][/bgcolor] exists. Also, [bgcolor=black][expunged][/bgcolor] TURNIPS, TURNIPS HELL YEAH. VOTE FOR THE TURNIPS.
[(time=1353553380)] <Insaniac> I made that for you Eluvatar
[(time=1353553380)] <Eluvatar> Expunged.
[(time=1353553380)] <Insaniac> Mission Successful.
[(time=1353553440)] <Insaniac> I'm done.
[(time=1353553440)] <RabbiCellophane> I <3 freedom.
[(time=1353553440)] <RabbiCellophane> Done.
[(time=1353553440)] <Funkadelia> I will take that as an unofficial endorsement Insaniac xD
[(time=1353553440)] <Eluvatar> Biyah`Tomb: go ahead sir
[(time=1353553440)] <Insaniac> Funkadelia: It kinda is. :P
[(time=1353553440)] <Biyah`Tomb> I am just that awesome. Vote for me, you konw you wanna.
[(time=1353553440)] <Biyah`Tomb> done
[(time=1353553440)] <Eluvatar> Romanoffia: you have the floor
[(time=1353553440)] <Romanoffia> Closing statement: I can promise that I am loyal to TNP and TNP only. I am free from outside influences. I have been a TNP citizen and a TNP citizen only. A vote for me is a vote to keep TNP controlled purely by the citizens of TNP. And I will give free cheese and rum to everyone if I win. But seriously, I know what the job requires and I have the experience. Let's work for a better TNP. ;D
[(time=1353553500)] <Romanoffia> El Done-o.
[(time=1353553500)] <Eluvatar> Excellent
[(time=1353553500)] <Romanoffia> Cheese.
[(time=1353553500)] <Eluvatar> Thank you all for coming, it has been an interesting debate.
Click to expand...

As Blue Wolf, Abstain, Kiwi, Aurora DiLaurentis, and DRUK were not present for this debate, I would like to invite them to contact me about when they might be available for a second.

EDIT: Due to a failure by me, Biyah got filtered out of the originally posted debate log. This has been corrected, but as a result the debate no longer fits in the first two posts, so I have put the closing statements in this post.
 
[Nov 21 2012, 10:03 PM] <Insaniac> Vote for Thomas [expunged] Insaniac, if you want to [expunged] up. I am a total [expunged] lunatic and if I win this [expunged] election, I will be [expunged] surprised. Also, I [expunged] love given Eluvatar more [expunged] words to [expunged] expunge, [expunged] yeah. Also, if you can't [expunged] vote for me, Fundakelia [expunged] exists. Also, [expunged] TURNIPS, TURNIPS HELL YEAH. VOTE FOR THE TURNIPS.

I just noticed the typo, given should be giving.
 
I'm sorry, yes you were. My formatting software failed to recognize Biyah`Tomb as an IRC nick. It would have printed about this however, so it's 100% my fault that I failed to notice.

The problem has been corrected, with my apologies.
 
Let me just say for the record that there is ZERO chance I will be showing up naked at anyone's door... even tho I know where you all live.
 
*curmudgeon hat on*

5 candidates not present doesn't really constitute a 'legitimate' debate, in my opinion.

I'll refrain from reading as to not give an unfair advantage to the participants of this debate unless the remaining candidates also get a chance to participate in a debate.
 
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