Nations Flying the Regional Flag

mcmasterdonia

mcmasterdonia

Just like a queef in the wind, so is life
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TNP Nation
McMasterdonia
I've noticed this a bit recently. It gets my attention largely as it is usually the nations that are behind the unendorsement campaign, trying to masquerade as members of the Government that do it.

I've noticed a few other nations doing it:

Everywheristan and Tyler Kazakov VI.

The first is quite an active endo trader. Not that this is uncommon for The North Pacific. However my concern is that nations in TNP, might think these nations are requesting endorsements as members of the government. Just interested to know what others think on the matter.

On the other hand, it is our regional flag, and belongs to our citizens. Not just members of the government.

Note: I am not accusing either nation of being behind the unendorsement campaign, or even pretending to be senior members of the government.
 
mcmasterdonia:
I've noticed this a bit recently. It gets my attention largely as it is usually the nations that are behind the unendorsement campaign, trying to masquerade as members of the Government that do it.

I've noticed a few other nations doing it:

Everywheristan and Tyler Kazakov VI.

The first is quite an active endo trader. Not that this is uncommon for The North Pacific. However my concern is that nations in TNP, might think these nations are requesting endorsements as members of the government. Just interested to know what others think on the matter.

On the other hand, it is our regional flag, and belongs to our citizens. Not just members of the government.

Note: I am not accusing either nation of being behind the unendorsement campaign, or even pretending to be senior members of the government.
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I am in the government :P

EDIT: If people have a problem with it, I will gladly use a different flag, although I like this flag a lot.
 
> 10. “Fraud” is defined as an intentional deception, by falsehood or omission, made for some benefit or to damage another individual.

> 4. The arms of the North Pacific may not be used except to represent the North Pacific or an official regional entity.
 
Eluvatar:
> 10. “Fraud” is defined as an intentional deception, by falsehood or omission, made for some benefit or to damage another individual.

> 4. The arms of the North Pacific may not be used except to represent the North Pacific or an official regional entity.
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:P Doesn't apply to me xD

Nevertheless, I'll take it down, more trouble then its worth.
 
It is a crminal activity to use the Flag to represent yourself as an agent of the Government.

Use of the flag is only authorized for government bodies and officers.

That said I would believe that a first offense, at least, would not be punishable. Subsequent offenses after having been warned, maybe.
 
I would simply suggest asking the person to remove it I guess. Then if they refuse / do it again then perhaps its more serious.

Also a note Tyler - you're an associate prosecutor, not a member of the government.
 
Though people in many contexts often associate it exclusively with the executive, a government technically comprises all three branches: judiciary, legislature, and of course executive. TNP's constitution and other laws also appear to use the term "government" in a similar way in several places, as a blanket term to refer to all the official bodies of the region.

For instance, Article 6 of the Constitution:
"1. All government officials must maintain membership in the Regional Assembly. [...]";

and also, Chapter 6 of the Legal Code:
"1. Any Law regulating the operations of the government of the North Pacific other than the Election Commission, the Judiciary, and the Security Council must be listed in this chapter."
 
r3naissanc3r:
Though people in many contexts often associate it exclusively with the executive, a government technically comprises all three branches: judiciary, legislature, and of course executive. TNP's constitution and other laws also appear to use the term "government" in a similar way in several places, as a blanket term to refer to all the official bodies of the region.

For instance, Article 6 of the Constitution:
"1. All government officials must maintain membership in the Regional Assembly. [...]";

and also, Chapter 6 of the Legal Code:
"1. Any Law regulating the operations of the government of the North Pacific other than the Election Commission, the Judiciary, and the Security Council must be listed in this chapter."
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While I agree with your argument, I think it's deceptive for Tyler to use the flag.

If this is the case legislation needs to be passed so that only certain individuals use the flag.
 
> 4. The arms of the North Pacific may not be used except to represent the North Pacific or an official regional entity.

So it's legal to use the arms (or the flag which contains them) to represent the office of the regional prosecutor, but not individuals within it.

As Delegate I took the view that the Delegate is a regional entity in and of itself; certainly it's the primary institution of the government in-game.
 
Tyler is technically part of the government but it would be misleading for his nation to fly the flag as it's normally used exclusively for the sitting delegate, and there is probably a rationale for keeping it that way.

I'm more surprised that Everywheristan did, because unfortunately I'm not aware who that is.
 
Would what flag you chose to wear not be a form of expression? Obviously our law makes it illegal for you to express stuff that is deceptive or impersonation, which is a reasonable withdraw of the Freedom of Expression; I don't think that it's so clear that flying your region's flag and demonstrating patriotism is deception. Just because my house flies a Canadian flag doesn't mean it is the House of Parliament and I don't think the Government of Canada would have a right to go tell to me to take the flag down.
 
Chasmanthe:
Tyler is technically part of the government but it would be misleading for his nation to fly the flag as it's normally used exclusively for the sitting delegate, and there is probably a rationale for keeping it that way.

I'm more surprised that Everywheristan did, because unfortunately I'm not aware who that is.
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I took a oath of office like the rest of the government, Cabinet Deputies are part of the government, as I am a part of the government, I am Punk D's Assistant Attorney General, it IS legal for me to use that flag, the delegate asked me not to use it and I took it down.


Are you really about to aruge the law....with me?
 
Tyler Kazakov:
Chasmanthe:
Tyler is technically part of the government but it would be misleading for his nation to fly the flag as it's normally used exclusively for the sitting delegate, and there is probably a rationale for keeping it that way.

I'm more surprised that Everywheristan did, because unfortunately I'm not aware who that is.
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I took a oath of office like the rest of the government, Cabinet Deputies are part of the government, as I am a part of the government, I am Punk D's Assistant Attorney General, it IS legal for me to use that flag, the delegate asked me not to use it and I took it down.


Are you really about to aruge the law....with me?
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Well Tyler, you didn't have the brightest understanding of law in B.I. when you accused me of Treason, so him arguing law with you wouldn't be fruitless.
 
Thomas Insaniac:
Tyler Kazakov:
Chasmanthe:
Tyler is technically part of the government but it would be misleading for his nation to fly the flag as it's normally used exclusively for the sitting delegate, and there is probably a rationale for keeping it that way.

I'm more surprised that Everywheristan did, because unfortunately I'm not aware who that is.
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I took a oath of office like the rest of the government, Cabinet Deputies are part of the government, as I am a part of the government, I am Punk D's Assistant Attorney General, it IS legal for me to use that flag, the delegate asked me not to use it and I took it down.


Are you really about to aruge the law....with me?
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Well Tyler, you didn't have the brightest understanding of law in B.I. when you accused me of Treason, so him arguing law with you wouldn't be fruitless.
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Lets not bring other regions into this, unless you want me to release the logs and let everyone see, then of course I'll also post the B.I. CC and then let then decide.
 
Tyler Kazakov:
Thomas Insaniac:
Tyler Kazakov:
Chasmanthe:
Tyler is technically part of the government but it would be misleading for his nation to fly the flag as it's normally used exclusively for the sitting delegate, and there is probably a rationale for keeping it that way.

I'm more surprised that Everywheristan did, because unfortunately I'm not aware who that is.
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I took a oath of office like the rest of the government, Cabinet Deputies are part of the government, as I am a part of the government, I am Punk D's Assistant Attorney General, it IS legal for me to use that flag, the delegate asked me not to use it and I took it down.


Are you really about to aruge the law....with me?
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Well Tyler, you didn't have the brightest understanding of law in B.I. when you accused me of Treason, so him arguing law with you wouldn't be fruitless.
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Lets not bring other regions into this, unless you want me to release the logs and let everyone see, then of course I'll also post the B.I. CC and then let then decide.
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The logs you showed were crap, I could post the real logs, they didn't make you look too good, yaknow.

Post the logs of me wherever the hell you want, I've been much worse than that on multiple occasions and I doubt anyone who knows me would care.
 
Funkadelia:
Tyler Kazakov:
Lets not, I violated nothing and don't feel the need for this to go to court.
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This is not about you.

This is about whether or not it is legal. It is a review, not charges.
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I feel all nations should be able to fly the flag, and have a special flag for the Delegate for he/she only and anyone can't use that one.
 
As it stands the arms of TNP, i.e.:

arms.png


Cannot be used unless you are part of the government, however the Flag may be used as you wish.
 
The flag contains the arms.

I may be wrong about whether the law against Fraud applies to use of the flag in general. The clearest prohibition is against using the flag to support a fraudulent message, or as the symbol of an entity which is not of TNP.

Flying the flag on your nation as you deploy your nation in an NPA operation is obviously okay, as it identifies you as part of the NPA in an NPA operation. Flying the flag on a nation of yours abroad as it goes about taking part in military operations not authorized by the NPA is obviously not okay, as it mis-identifies you as part of the NPA when you are not acting as part of NPA. Flying the flag on your TNP nation in TNP is slightly more ambiguous, and whether it is okay may depend on what you do with it.

Personally I am dubious of having nations other than the legal Delegate and regionally owned puppet nations flying the regional flag. It can be used in Factbooks, or put in one's forum signature, without a problem. Flying it as your nation's flag seems like a grey area which is best avoided.
 
Seems like some sort of animosity directed towards Tyler Kazamov for things only incidentally related to our protection of the regional flag. Tempest in a teacup; though I suppose I should be grateful so many people are so passionate about TNP law? :eyeroll:
 
Tyler Kazakov:
Lets not, I violated nothing and don't feel the need for this to go to court.
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And as we all know, you are the law. How dare anyone question you about the law! HOW DARE THEY INDEED!
 
Gaspo:
Tyler Kazakov:
Lets not, I violated nothing and don't feel the need for this to go to court.
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And as we all know, you are the law. How dare anyone question you about the law! HOW DARE THEY INDEED!
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Yes how DARE they, I'mma sue you all for slander ahhhh, no i'm not, I'm just joking.
 
I'm not that excited that, as a region, we continue to run to the courts for everything. Personally, I would rather this be addressed by the RA so that there is no ambiguity. A new court could always overturn its previous ruling.
 
unibot:
Would what flag you chose to wear not be a form of expression? Obviously our law makes it illegal for you to express stuff that is deceptive or impersonation, which is a reasonable withdraw of the Freedom of Expression; I don't think that it's so clear that flying your region's flag and demonstrating patriotism is deception. Just because my house flies a Canadian flag doesn't mean it is the House of Parliament and I don't think the Government of Canada would have a right to go tell to me to take the flag down.
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I don't think you're taking into account the differences between NS and RL. You flying your flag outside of your house doesn't give the impression that you're an official of Canada or acting in an official capacity as an agent of the government of Canada.

In NS it's much easier to do just that.
 
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