Governmental Overhaul

Defacto

Defacto

TNPer
We were discussing this in another thread, but I thought it worthwhile to make a single thread for this issue.

I would suggest that a problem with the current governmental system is that it is very difficult to engage in the system as a newcomer.

To fix this issue I would suggest an overhaul of the government system

My immediate suggestion would be the following structure:

Each individual can only hold one position at a time.

Parliamentary:

Lower House, 11 Seats: Monthly elections where any unique members of the forum can vote for a party which has nominated itself for voting. Then based on a system of proportional voting, the parties are assigned a certain number of seats relative to the number of votes they have received. The party then assigns these seats to its members (NB. The party must state their candidates for each position before the election). The lower house proposes legislation for the region. Anyone is eligible for membership of the congress.

Upper House, 5 Seats: Monthly elections under the same party proportional voting system. The upper house approves legislation. Only those who have been members of the forum for at least 30 days can become members of the upper house.

Government:

The party (or parties) which have a majority in the parliament establish a government and assign the following ministries:

Prime Minister
Minister of Recruitment
Minister of Defence
Any others?

Executive:

President: Elected irrespective of parties by popular vote. Must attain a majority of votes or else a run-off shall be held. The president has veto right on any legislation passing through the parliament and can dissolve parliament/call early elections with the backing of a majority of the judiciary.

Vice-President/Speaker: Chosen by the President. Administration role. Organises the running of the parliament as well as the organisation of elections.

Judiciary:

3 Justices: Elections every 2 Months. Same role as now, resolving disputes, interpreting the constitution etc. Elected by popular vote. Cannot be an active member of a party.


This is just my general first idea. It opens more positions, allows for more political debate/manoeuvring and is less sedate. Any comments/ suggestions?
 
How would moving from a system where everybody can be in the legislative body to one where it is exclusive make it easier for new people to be involved?
 
My main focus is the party based system, because from when I've been on nationstates forums before I've found party politics to lead to the most engaging discussion regardless of how recently you have joined. I just couldn't think of a feasible way to include a party system in an open legislative body, although if someone can that would obviously be ideal :)

Also, what does everyone think about introducing a currency and market etc.?
 
The Palindromic Land:
How would moving from a system where everybody can be in the legislative body to one where it is exclusive make it easier for new people to be involved?
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I agree with "The Palindromic Land".
 
Parliamentary:

Lower House, 11 Seats: Monthly elections where any unique members of the forum can vote for a party which has nominated itself for voting. Then based on a system of proportional voting, the parties are assigned a certain number of seats relative to the number of votes they have received. The party then assigns these seats to its members (NB. The party must state their candidates for each position before the election). The lower house proposes legislation for the region. Anyone is eligible for membership of the congress.

Upper House, 5 Seats: Monthly elections under the same party proportional voting system. The upper house approves legislation. Only those who have been members of the forum for at least 30 days can become members of the upper house.
Click to expand...

I generally like the idea of two Houses with one open to all citizens and the other open only to "active" member of the community and have proposed it in the Constitution Committee (Which probably needs a poke as well), but I do not think Political Party ever work in NS. Political Party is based on shared ideologies of some sort that are usually either economical, cultural, or governmental like Communism, Capitalism, Conservative, Liberal, Nationalist, and many others smaller ideologies. However, it is difficult to find these ideologies in NS Gameplayer that can be shared and actually use to form a political party since most of the aforementioned cultural or economical ideology exist only in RL. Ideologies in NS Gameplay are very limited to something that is actually game related such as Defender/Raider, Anti-WA/Pro-WA, Pro-Change to the Constitution/Anti-Change to the Constitution (The now mostly defunct NCPP and some other defunct party Gross formed is the example of this) and a couple of others.

I'm also concerned with a monthly election since it's create a lack of continuity between each session of the house which can made it even slower to create or change law.

Government:

The party (or parties) which have a majority in the parliament establish a government and assign the following ministries:

Prime Minister
Minister of Recruitment
Minister of Defence
Any others?

Executive:

President: Elected irrespective of parties by popular vote. Must attain a majority of votes or else a run-off shall be held. The president has veto right on any legislation passing through the parliament and can dissolve parliament/call early elections with the backing of a majority of the judiciary.

Vice-President/Speaker: Chosen by the President. Administration role. Organises the running of the parliament as well as the organisation of elections.
Click to expand...

Generally, I am a fan of our current system that the HoS is also HoE and that the election is direct. I am also quiet sure that we would have to call the leader the is elected from legislature as Prime Minister, but I might be wrong.

Judiciary:

3 Justices: Elections every 2 Months. Same role as now, resolving disputes, interpreting the constitution etc. Elected by popular vote. Cannot be an active member of a party.
Click to expand...

Judiciary needs a huge overhaul.

Personally, I will start with simplifying this: http://forum.thenorthpacific.org/topic/6738296/1 into something simpler. It's a damn headache to understand the procedure.
 
Having a Prime Minister was a very bad idea, and if I recall Dali revolted at one point when he was delegate because he felt the Delegate slot was powerless within the government and basically just the lackey for the Prime Minister, with no authority to act on their own. Just saying.
 
Felasia:
Parliamentary:

Lower House, 11 Seats: Monthly elections where any unique members of the forum can vote for a party which has nominated itself for voting. Then based on a system of proportional voting, the parties are assigned a certain number of seats relative to the number of votes they have received. The party then assigns these seats to its members (NB. The party must state their candidates for each position before the election). The lower house proposes legislation for the region. Anyone is eligible for membership of the congress.

Upper House, 5 Seats: Monthly elections under the same party proportional voting system. The upper house approves legislation. Only those who have been members of the forum for at least 30 days can become members of the upper house.
Click to expand...

I generally like the idea of two Houses with one open to all citizens and the other open only to "active" member of the community and have proposed it in the Constitution Committee (Which probably needs a poke as well), but I do not think Political Party ever work in NS. Political Party is based on shared ideologies of some sort that are usually either economical, cultural, or governmental like Communism, Capitalism, Conservative, Liberal, Nationalist, and many others smaller ideologies. However, it is difficult to find these ideologies in NS Gameplayer that can be shared and actually use to form a political party since most of the aforementioned cultural or economical ideology exist only in RL. Ideologies in NS Gameplay are very limited to something that is actually game related such as Defender/Raider, Anti-WA/Pro-WA, Pro-Change to the Constitution/Anti-Change to the Constitution (The now mostly defunct NCPP and some other defunct party Gross formed is the example of this) and a couple of others.

I'm also concerned with a monthly election since it's create a lack of continuity between each session of the house which can made it even slower to create or change law.

Government:

The party (or parties) which have a majority in the parliament establish a government and assign the following ministries:

Prime Minister
Minister of Recruitment
Minister of Defence
Any others?

Executive:

President: Elected irrespective of parties by popular vote. Must attain a majority of votes or else a run-off shall be held. The president has veto right on any legislation passing through the parliament and can dissolve parliament/call early elections with the backing of a majority of the judiciary.

Vice-President/Speaker: Chosen by the President. Administration role. Organises the running of the parliament as well as the organisation of elections.
Click to expand...

Generally, I am a fan of our current system that the HoS is also HoE and that the election is direct. I am also quiet sure that we would have to call the leader the is elected from legislature as Prime Minister, but I might be wrong.

Judiciary:

3 Justices: Elections every 2 Months. Same role as now, resolving disputes, interpreting the constitution etc. Elected by popular vote. Cannot be an active member of a party.
Click to expand...

Judiciary needs a huge overhaul.

Personally, I will start with simplifying this: http://forum.thenorthpacific.org/topic/6738296/1 into something simpler. It's a damn headache to understand the procedure.
Click to expand...
But the existance of one rogue doesn't necessairly prove a rule. Indeed, if I recall, the ousting of Dali may have been one of the more efficient restorations.

What I dislike is two houses. Seperating activity (especially when members are not overly plentiful) isn't conductive to vibrancy.
 
I agree, but the feeders have always been usually not as welcoming to newcomers as one would hope vs. returning veterans.

That should change and we must show how they can be involved in our government without feeling cast aside.
 
Defacto, whilst it's good to see newer faces taking part and putting forward ideas, I have to respectfully disagree with your proposal.

What TNP needs isn't more complicated government and more labyrinth legislation. That has been tried, and failed. Many times.

We need cleaner and more workable laws, especially governing the judiciary. More than that, the fundemental problem is not in the system itself - though it certainly could be and should be improved - its the simple fact the region is directionless and without purpose. Until that is addressed substantively then any reforms are simply a rearranging of deck chairs on a certain large ship.
 
Haor Chall:
Defacto, whilst it's good to see newer faces taking part and putting forward ideas, I have to respectfully disagree with your proposal.

What TNP needs isn't more complicated government and more labyrinth legislation. That has been tried, and failed. Many times.

We need cleaner and more workable laws, especially governing the judiciary. More than that, the fundemental problem is not in the system itself - though it certainly could be and should be improved - its the simple fact the region is directionless and without purpose. Until that is addressed substantively then any reforms are simply a rearranging of deck chairs on a certain large ship.
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:agree:
 
This is reminiscent in some ways of some proposals I've been making in Constitution Committee. I think mine were a little less complex, however.
 
I think they key to any governmental overhaul is to simplify the Constitution into a one page document. As with any government, constipation sets in when things get overly complicated and somewhat 'Byzantine'.
 
OK, the utter lack of interest in accomplishing anything that will relieve the boredom is getting, well, boring.

I mean, we could have a revolution that established a dictator and nobody would notice, let alone care.
 
Apathy isn't caused by the complexity of a constitution, it's caused by nations not having the need or desire to be involved in the system/region.

The problem isn't that the constitution is flawed (not that I'm saying it isn't), as every court case I care the remember demonstrates you can pretty much ignore it without consequence; it's that currently without constitutional loop holes to discuss, there is no TNP.

Unless the process of reform starts at the point of how does TNP attract more nations to be involved, it's doomed to failure. Constitutional changes and government overhauls are steps in the middle, not the start.

(I'm not saying I consider any of the constitutional/governmental proposals as bad, just premature. It's like putting fish in a fishtank before the water. They're lovely fish and all, but they'll still flop about and suffocate as much as the last one. And on that note :fish: )
 
Nam makes the point which I already mentioned in this thread, government reform is needed but by itself is not enough.

Just look at the last few Delegate elections, the candidates either haven't bothered with a campaign thread or those who have don't have anything substantive in it. The system we have undoubtedly puts barriers in places which contributes to the problem, but it isn't the sole issue here.

TNP doesn't just need a constitutional overhaul, it needs a direction and a purpose too.


Incidentally, that is my main problem with the "Flemingovian Solution" - the idea has potential, but going by Flems last time as Delegate, I assume that the government will be non existant and the level of activity will be as low as it is now, if not lower. Which proves the point that it isn't just about the document you use, you need the ideas and the direction to go with it too.
 
things need to be realisic, and the reality is TNP can't handle a complex system. Also HC is correct. What is really needed is a direction, or no matter the government, it will fail.
 
Blue Wolf II:
I'll be sure to coup at the earliest possible convenience just to spice things up for you Romanoffia. :P
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But it wouldn't be a coup if I was supporting you, which I do.

OK, here's my advice to make you the most memorable and popular Delegate TNP has ever seen. Raze some hell. Make things interesting. And do it with a sense of humor that gets people off their arses and get involved.

Declare this month as "Regional Get off your arse month".

That, and declare that everyone change their national mottos to "We Need Cheese". :fish:
 
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