JAL's Application Case

Topid

Topid

TNPer
Maybe a topic like this is in order to discuss the case we need to decide on first?

I believe the issue being discussed here (JAL/Flem's complaint that his application to the RA should have been accepted) is the first one we need to decide.

Personally, given the fact that there is an application process the law implies that there are some cases where the Speaker may refuse applications or the whole application process is pointless in the first place.

It seems to me if there were ever a case to doubt someones intention to abide by the oath it would be JAL, who broke the oath by ejecting hundreds of nations from the region (including myself) a long time back, and who did not show any more seriousness than he did then by posting such a joke application.

So in other words, I think by creating an application process the law asserts there are some cases that an application should be denied. And a past violator of the oath who continues to show contempt toward the process of the region is one of the most obvious cases to decline an application.
 
Here's where I seem to stand so far.

The Speaker has the right to accept and deny applicants as he please so long as he does so in a legitimate and legal manner, which he did.

I think we should know who the admin was who reviewed the evidence with Felasia, and what evidence there is persay to justify Felasia's application.

I'm prepared to throw out the argument where he said that Felasia should lighten up. The application thread is an official thread, and if JAL wanted to apply to the RA, he should have taken it seriously, as it's an official government thread, and not spam it or file a false application or an incorrect application with a improper oath. IRL if someone made a false oath or mocked the oath for an official civil service job, they would be disqualified. What Fel did is no different. He did his job.

I also would like to throw out the initial evidence posed from IRC's #tnp channel. It's not used for official government business and whatever is done there has no bearing on government matters at the moment. Additionally, it is outside TNP's jurisdiction anyway at the moment.

The argument about the whole coup thing is a bit hypocritical. Yes JAL was involved in coups in the past, but so has Felasia. Remember the Crimson Order? He was a part of that. His role wasn't that significant at the time, so he essentially gave nothing more than just support for Westwind's regime. I didn't see anyone reject any of the Crimsonites from the RA.

What do you guys think?
 
Actually no, the Crimson Order means nothing to me, likely before my time.

Feeder coups are less extreme than what JAL did to me though. Ejecting meaninglessly, even if a vast majority of them are puppets or nations that will CTE, there would by nature have to be players that legitimately just want to sit in our regions and answer issues, a real resident, kicked from the region for no reason other than because it can be done (not to protect the coup, not in response to opposition, etc.). It just seems worse to me.

Also I think something we need to talk about are the court rules. Seriously. Look at those things. They're awful!
 
Topid:
Actually no, the Crimson Order means nothing to me, likely before my time.

Feeder coups are less extreme than what JAL did to me though. Ejecting meaninglessly, even if a vast majority of them are puppets or nations that will CTE, there would by nature have to be players that legitimately just want to sit in our regions and answer issues, a real resident, kicked from the region for no reason other than because it can be done (not to protect the coup, not in response to opposition, etc.). It just seems worse to me.

Also I think something we need to talk about are the court rules. Seriously. Look at those things. They're awful!
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Topid, I advise you to stay back on topic, and don't let personal grudges get in the way of objectively deciding this case mate.

The court rules are a bit complex but lets just work with what we have now and focus on reforming them later.

What are your thoughts on the comments I made about the arguments, coup stuff aside?
 
Past criminal behaviour in this very region is very much not to be set aside to me, it is a legitimate reason to reject his application, IMO.
 
Topid:
Past criminal behaviour in this very region is very much not to be set aside to me, it is a legitimate reason to reject his application, IMO.
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That is true, and he did not take the oath seriously and post it properly until after the fact.

Falconkats, what are your thoughts?

Who would like to deliver the final ruling if I may ask?
 
will have to review the posts and would like all of us to come to a decision and get this matter settle and move on
 
I've brought some order to the court so far. Falconkats, please brush up on the case soon and give us your thoughts. After the 6th we have to really get moving.
 
Ok, Flem has decided to resort to insulting us I guess here:
http://s13.zetaboards.com/TNP/topic/6823973/2/

I'm half tempted to say something back but meh. Either of you want to say something there?

So far the deadline for Eluvatar's opening statement has passed, with no opening statement yet, and Flem is asking the Chief Justice to rule on something.

Falconkats, where are you? I hope you're now brought up to speed?
 
:pinch:
Gotcha.

Also if there is no opening statement soon after it being requested several times I don't see how we can continue the case, though dismissing it means JAL can't ever be tried for his actions again by the Bill of Rights.
 
I also think Falconkats needs to be more clear on how we are proceeding with this case, in that we're hearing the criminal charges first or the complaint about the RA rejection first.
 
:lol:
I am confused with what is going on at every level of this trial. It was declared here that both would happen at the same time, then it was reversed. It isn't the first contradiction I've noticed, but the best example of a decision being made with no explanation then reversed with no more explanation.

I realize the rules we are working under are a complete joke as far as creating an actual functioning system, but we have to figure this out. And I also realize Flem's attitude is not beneficial to anything.
 
Topid:
:lol:
I am confused with what is going on at every level of this trial. It was declared here that both would happen at the same time, then it was reversed. It isn't the first contradiction I've noticed, but the best example of a decision being made with no explanation then reversed with no more explanation.

I realize the rules we are working under are a complete joke as far as creating an actual functioning system, but we have to figure this out. And I also realize Flem's attitude is not beneficial to anything.
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Thoughts on the case so far?

Where is Topid?
 
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