Honest Dissent

Thanks bro.  I was going to ask anyway.  At the moment what you could do is get us a list of the "active" RP regions u know.  This will help when we get that project going.
I was going to reply to the previous assessment of the EP's RP vs. TNP RP, but this request provides a much better opportunity.

What qualifies as a RP region depends on what your definition of RP is. Many (indeed, most active) regions refer to themselves as "RPers" on some level but I think you'll find that it means a great many different things depending on who you ask. In essence, it's a flexible word and some examination of what people mean by it is usually in order before one tries to participate in it with them.

First, there are differences in the basic definition. Many NS communities are into a narrative form which is essentially group writing of a story in a shared setting. This is one case where the accepted term can be deceiving, as this is not role-playing at all! There are no participants acting the roles of their characters, there is no alternate self-identification or acting, and unless read very, very wrong there is no possibility of duality. Then there are the groups that are role-playing, setting alternate characters for themselves and playing the role of those characters. A lot of light-hearted regional play falls under this category - indeed, many of the NS personalities we all know are simply well-played roles - but so do the more bewildering forms of duality.

Yet more groups may do online forms of pen-and-paper RPGs, or refer to forum games as 'RP', or any of a number of other interpretations. Nevertheless I believe that the two above are the most common interpretations, which is still enough to blindside the best of us. I give you the example of the Empire (a group of acting-based actual roleplayers), who took over the EP (a group of narrative-based 'roleplayers') and found that the locals didn't understand them and would only grudgingly participate in their system. Since everyone knew that the EP was a 'RP' region, they presumed that it would accept them with open arms - after all, were they not 'RPers'?

Beyond that there are distinctions within given basic definitions. Narrative groups, for one, may have vastly differing rules and mores. Some regions may use a NS-based setting where everyone writes the setting and characters of their fictional nation. Others may use entirely character-based systems with no real connection to NS. Some may have elaborate rules confining events that occur to the plausible and the technological present. Others may involve magic and spaceships alongside the mundane, and yet others make them more or less mandatory. Some may be all about war, while others may only do wars to set the plot for other events. Some may have signups for threads and plan them well in advance, while others may wing it and pull people in as they go along. Some may have high standards of writing quality, while others may be more lenient.

Such distinctions are not limited to narrative settings; 'RP' environments based on the actual playing of roles have their own distinctions as well. They may have varying levels of accepted duality and varying degrees of expected out-of-character talk. They may assume that all other NSers are equally acting, or they may not. They may hybridize with the narrative system and delve into writing stories about their played personas, or they may stick to posting as them.

To use some hypothetical examples, Region A is based on collective storytelling in a mostly-peaceful setting with almost no rules, limited writing standards, and a freewheeling creative process dependent on mutual respect and etiquette. Region B is a defender region whose participants all use elaborate, quirky and fun-loving alternate personas when posting - but who despise spies as a betrayal. Region C's members aren't quite playing alternative personas of themselves but every nation seems to be run by a thinly veiled avatar of its poster and arguments about regional politics always correspond to wars between nations. All of them can and will claim that they are 'roleplaying', or just 'RPing'. So, who's right? All of them. They're all RP regions because there is no commonly accepted definition of the word.

------

I guess the Cliff's Notes version of the above is that knowing that a region calls itself an RP region teaches almost nothing about what that region actually does, nor whether you'd want to participate in their activities. Even though we all use it since we've used it for so long, the word roleplaying/RP is practically useless on its own because it has so many competing definitions.
 
You are one of the few people whose lengthy posts never bore me. You have a knack for making things clear...is transparent a better word? Where the hell were u when we wrote our 48 page constitution of a few years back!!! lol

That makes a lot of sense. I would say TNP may never be a true RP region. We will most likely always provide some form of controlled RP atmosphere. But not a broad one that would classify us as a RP region. I will make note of that explanation to use it in the very near future to explain TNP's RP atmosphere that will most likely be like our old one.

RP....
To save people time (because u would have to drudge through S2)...TNP's old RP was basically confined to specific sections in the forum and also regional events. Only a handful of players stuck to their NS made persona. Most of the others were like myself...didn't really use duality and would RP only in those sections.

Within the entertainment section players like New Sardonika, Magicality, Oz, Rocketman and Poe (she wasn't called Poe back then I believe) had RP threads they created and members in the forum would pop in and play. The one I remember was Oz's Cafe I think (someone correct me cause I think that's wrong). It was really the only one I frequented with Magicality.

Event RP was always something I enjoyed because the "character" I played within the RP threads had a chance to extend to NS (something I really never did as I created a nation but only gave it a character when I was under infiltration missions for Intel) ....And I would often be able to show different sides of that created character. I found this more entertaining as it fits closer to my RL persona. I tend to have many interests and moods. The Entertainment Section RP, I found, didn't allow me to go express those moods.... as I set a type of persona for a character and stuck with it.

Examples of Event RP would be like our early Award Ceremonies, Ananke's Temple (I pissed on it at one time which caused a stir...it was personal...long story but we are cool now) etc.

Loss of RP...

We lost sight of our old RP trends because of a few reasons. (another history lesson coming).

When Twoslit created the forum and the community began I had not yet found NS. I don't remember what RP existed then but by the time I arrived in very late 03 Poe and a few others had started their thing. It existed just fine with the more political NS struggle that Twoslit pushed us into with the NPO. This is what started our year or so under ADN's thumb and we really had no identity as a feeder for a long time. Slowly, Flem Ananke, Nem and Wilks walked away from Twoslit to embrace the growing community. Meaning they left his club. But we were still dependent on the ADN. RP as it was continued to flourish.

**Guys forgive me for leaving out the contributions of players like Blackshear and many others...this is my POV and it would be pages long if went into great detail**

Fast Forward....Magicality became popular...Thel showed up ....we and many other players recruited heavily..brought in new blood and brick by brick the foundation of TNP's Identity started to form with the broadening of our community and growing stature in NS.

RP was still a popular thing even though we became more and more involved in NS politics and the Invader/Defender War. We also managed to fracture but not completely break our ADN dependency and still were perceived as their region by most of NS.

Fast Forward....We pushed for Magicality to become Delegate (mark that as the beginning of our Golden Age) to truly take a lot of Twosluts influence....Magicality CTE...Then UPS Rail took power and revealed he was a plant (mainly intel and NPA knew but most of the region was not really aware of this till much later)...which lead to Great Blight. This boom of activity gave a lot of people (including myself) the opportunity to gain stature in NS and in TNP. RP really took a back seat and If I remember it slowed down. TNP became totally involved in NS politics which many Role Players weren't into.

Banjected TNP Nations went to Avengers Assemble or moved completely away from TNP. This meant we lost members of the community as well.

Thel becomes Delegate in TNP...that was the final push that really solidified our identity. But ADN was the Fenda powerhouse and being invader after GB really was no option for us. We remained a member but made it a point not to depend on them as much. We lost Ananke to them as ADN was sorta a drug to many.

Lemuria was created during GB but was private...which is where many banjected TNP vet nations migrated to (including some of our very avid RPers) a short while after Thel left the delegacy. They left because we became extremely political and involved in the Invader/Fenda war. RP really took a hit.

Fast Forward....Thel left the delegacy (mark that as the end of our Golden Era) and concentrated on Lem. I left TNP for a few months to be a Fenda for hire and also tried other regions (including Lem where I tried to get some type of Military installed to no avail). Cath and IP got together at some point. She reached a Magicality type milestone....I returned during the height of that and started to catch up on what was happening in the background. I don't really remember RP in the forum then. Eventually (in my eyes), Cath betrayed the trust that Thel and most of the region placed in them...the region fractured...they brought in Ivan....The underground was formed in the forum....it was reorganized by myself, Eras and many others ...SOS was created and we fractured even more.....We came together again via the convention but were very cautious, bitter and had to create a extremely strong government that was always intended to slowly loosen up once we transitioned. I was forced to push for the removal the Delegates power and we gave it to the Prime Minister. I was elected to that position....was forced to take a Lincoln type approach (civil war era) as opposed to the more Churchhill stance (someone described me in that way) that I took prior to that.

Notice no mention of Roleplay....or real fun.

Lexicon, SOS and other regions received many of our players and took with it the fun we used to have. Wilks left too (big loss). Along with that our Rep suffered as this place became (from what Dark and many players tell me) no fun at all.

Personal part....

I retired due to RL....came back a year later when I spoke to Flemingovia (when Influence was just introduced).... found the Invader/defender game was dying (which I loved almost as much as TNP) the region was having security problems again...I took over the NPIA for a few months...(I really wasn't ready to return as I still did not have the passion in me for the game due to RL matters) and then left abruptly (RL).... Flem broought me back a year later april 08...I found I had 50 endoes and (in game) influence when revived because I CTE wIth my highest endomark ever 100+ the year I retired (I was always defending and was only here to be kicked by dictators). No need for my hundreds of puppets either but at least we could bring them back ourselves. But this region did not feel like home any longer.

I checked out the region where I played in the Background for many years (TWP) and parts of it reminded me of what we use to have (except it has an Ol Boys club). NS talks kept me from leaving again.....only for it to suck and game vets who helped change the game were left out of the Beta. Now players are alienated by the gamemakers.

Peeves.....

I left my nation here because with influence I felt I was needed...Invader/Defender game is dead so no reason to move as well. Tested out the Meritocracy again while I got to know the up and comers (who they were when I retired...Elu Ator etc) in TNP and catch up in the background and did not publically get involved in the gov as I needed to catch the pulse of the region and community. I started to reconnect with in game Vets like my Godfather Nastic ..... only to find they felt shunned by the forum community. So much so that WW was able to draw him and ughhhh....twoslut back after Dali went rogue. Hence why I started the Historical Society and wanted to use the Honorary founder tag to make them feel more included and recognized. But that became an issue on the forum.

The vets here seem to forget our history. Newbies don't know it. No one teaches them or guides them as we used to. Root Admin doesn't seem to care that we need a change even if its just to the forum skin...he won't even take care of our IRC room. I got the impression I am bother to those played with for so long. RL is much better for me so I have that passion again for NS and can actually play other online games which i never tried in the past....but everyone else in NS seems...detached.

Gross, who like Enegro Montoya in TWP, continues to be a loyal workhorse in legislature and such areas....seems to not get any recognition and people talk behind his back because he is a stickler for certain ways of doing things. TWP and others talk about us like we are shit. Players turn away from the atmosphere here as if we have a dead body somewhere. I have to defend us practically alone on IRC and in other regional forums.

The game really went into decline right when I retired the first time (not saying its because i left lol) and I return to see very few who will do anything more than bitch about it (something that was not a NS trend...bitching). Not even IRC is what it used to be. I wanted to do something big...really organize to bring NS back..but during that the Jolt convos started on the subject and much of what I wanted to discuss would be redundant. So...I focused on TWP and TNP.

Finally, I really got the desire to be Delegate and it, as I thought, was cool and easy. But RL tapped me again very briefly....needed a vacation. Someone I called friend acted like I was unapproachable....treated me like I was some newcomer and publically critisized me in my first term...very impersonal and insulting. Then I get political mud thrown at me like Polts did way back when. Slap in the face...no prob...I'll be the bigger man.

The Plot....

Now, a contact informs me of a plot. I do the right thing...contact the delegate. Days later the plotter contacts me....explains that it's being done for change. I am sympathetic...discuss it...don't like the means at all....but....I start to realize that perhaps that ol Boys club of Twoslit may exist again. Not exactly why we fought for so long for here. That's not what is best for the region....I have never had a problem standing up for what I belived was right among friends....I am not a follower.

Hence this thread.....my way of finding that out.....also a good means to bring about change in a positive way....perhaps help give everyone perspective....create a buzz....have other players in other regions look and see that we can change.

"Lets draw a line...see who is a Patriot, ol Boy or a terrorist." This convo did that.


I'm pissed...

Today I get info that a nation tged someone in game and used my name with the plot as if I ever condoned it in its negative form or said I would flat out participate. Now, my sympathy for something we need (simply change) becomes a tool. I have to...as we say in NYC...get on my grime and spend the day playing NS chess (so to speak) at 100 percent .... as i used to to, in order protect the region.

RL suffers...but its all good...it's sunday and Football (NFL) isn't on....I can push my work to tomorrow...place all other games on hold for a bit.

This is long...but I needed to explain. My apologies. It is 4:51 am......I started this at 1. Hope it wasn't a waste.
 
A little perspective on Thelegacy...

When I joined the game in late March 2004, I did not know much about the game. A friend had asked me to join her goth music fan-oriented region and CTE'd relatively soon thereafter. I'd almost clicked the Move Thel D'Ran to another region button when I got a famous Magicality introduction TG. This was how I found the S2 forum.

I had no intention of becoming involved with politics nor with infending or devading. It seemed odd that there was a "We Hate FS" section and fairly unwelcoming, too. Ignoring that, I looked around for something the community didn't seem to have. Surprise! No map.

As a consequence of the map - and keep in mind I rarely if ever asked for an endo in exchange for being mapped - I was in the Top Ten Most Endo'd TNPers within two or three months. I was online at the time Blackshear was poofitied (to borrow a Neenee word) out of his delegacy. What happened next was the only result of an Ananke-Thel cooperation. We messaged everyone we could contact to make Magicality delegate (while she was sleeping). Not only had Magi's Welcome TGs made her well-known, they had been quite effective in garnering her endo enough to place her within striking distance of the delegacy before the update.

Note: Magicality never asked for an endo either.
Another Note: Updates were at a very predictable and regular time in those days.

At about this time, I created the region Lemuria. It was initially intended as a private test bed for the "powers that be" in TNP. All of the folks who seemed to qualify were contacted via PM and not a one deigned involvement. Lemuria eventually became my refuge after my 42-day delegacy.

I don't now recall how long Magi was delegate but irl caused her to poofity as well. For about two weeks, I (and others) maintained her tally by endotarting on her behalf like fiends. But, UN (now WA) decisions and other factors being what they are in NS, unendo campaigns began.

I was in regular contact with all of the Top Ten Endo'd folks in the region at the time. I still had no notion of ever becoming delegate. I asked each of the Ton Ten-ers what their intentions were if they should become delegate. Very few of us actually knew at this time that Magicality was seriously ill and might not be returning to the game (as was to prove to be the case).

The only person who'd bothered to tell me his plans for the region was UPS Rail. He said, "I'd probably implement an NPO style government. Apart from that, just a few minor changes."

To this day I find it incredibly odd that the ADN-stooge TNP was at the time never bothered to inform the Top Ten Endo'd folk what the NPO was and why we hated them. I didn't know and therefore UPS' replied only sparked a "well, at least he's got a plan" reaction.

Then the UPS/GB/Puppet Attack chapter happened. So much has been written about this that there's just no point in rehashing it here.

Twoslit chided me for not galvanizing Avengers Assemble into a defender group in absentia. Two things are important in this situation. The first is that I was still stunningly new to the game at this point and had not been involved in even one military action. Secondly, I don't like taking orders from someone whose authority is based upon having breathed TNP air longer.

During one attempt on GB's delegacy, I actually managed to gain 467 endo in just 6 hours. The only other person - at the time - who could endo faster than I was Blackshear. The Puppet Attack made Better Times delegate and I was a very close second.

At this point, it mattered to me that a native TNPer was delegate. BT turned the delegacy over to me when I was at just 150 endo. I knew enough to consider this a very weak endotally. I learned quickly how to endotart and reached 444 (the highest tally in the game at the time) within about a month.

My TO DO list was six items long. I'd made a guarantee to myself that I'd quit the delegacy once I'd accomplished those items and could negotiate (yes, privately) for a successor who'd secure the region from ALL external influences - NPO and ADN included.

During Pixiedance's term I learned that there were two "Delegate" forum masks. One was manufactured for those not known to be loyal to the Old School. The other was a mask with power. Guess which one I'd had during my term.

This and a few other factors sparked my desire to leave TNP and "retire" to Lemuria. I messaged EVERYONE in TNP that I did not want anyone to follow me there unless they felt it was a better home. Many did. More did not.

Ultimately, irl is why I retired from active play. That and the fact that I'd run out of new to contribute.
 
I guess the unspoken question in my previous post is: "What does TNP think of when it thinks 'RP'?" Since the term alone doesn't say much, some sort of further clarification is needed.

Are you interested in the more serious narrative-style stuff like they do in TEP? Would you rather do light-hearted character acting, taverns and such? Or do you have something entirely different in mind? Do you want a system with a framework of rules or few rules? Do you want to be based on nations or not?

Of course, I probably sound quite nitpicky, but answering such questions would clarify what sort of arrangement you want - and which regions you want to associate with.
 
Rp has always puzzled me a bit, since i think of everything we do here as roleplay. The idea of a roleplay character roleplaying a character makes my head spin.

Also ... I have never been that good at pure roleplay. that is why I have not got involved in the past.

Good to see you again, Loop.
 
Rp has always puzzled me a bit, since i think of everything we do here as roleplay. The idea of a roleplay character roleplaying a character makes my head spin.
It generally makes more sense once one realizes that most of what we call roleplay is not roleplaying at all.
 
Any type of RP started up here should be of TNP's own design and rules and not from TEP <_<.

Given my RP experience I would be more than happy to help develop RP in TNP here :ADN:
 
Ummm....I believe I explained fully what TNP's type of RP was...point is we don't know what it is now since no one has stickied such rules in RP area.

No one said that we are adapting TEP's design and rules. They are helping and we appreciate it.

Please stop saying your "happy to help" every time we need something done in the hope that we simply hand over some type of responsibility to u. U want to help...post your suggestions..participate in RP.

Responsibility is something we don't hand over lightly. The few times u got it you showed that it was too much for u. Your deputy MOD and have not even posted your oath properly.

Now we have to move these two posts as well.

Please discuss RP in the other thread and do not reply to this.

Can this topic be locked please as I believe it has served it's purpose and most of the endeavors we discussed here have already begun throughout the forum.
 
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