Wee-Tiddler

Rhindon Blade

Rhindon Blade

TNPer
Not sure how many of you received this TG, but I did yesterday:

Why would anyone really want to stay in TNP? You got snotty arsey telegrams and threats from Tresville who is simply far too quick to mouth off. Manners cost nothing but they are not worthless and if you give crap to people and you often get it back. An people wonder why this region is dieing? because unless your part of the inner clique you get crap.
I am sending this to you as you appear to be one of the rare civilised and pleasant people on this site but with offensive and basically unfirendly 'fake tough talkers' like Tresville you are just going to turn people away.
**After all it is just a bloody game!!**
Anyway good luck to you and so long and thanks for all the fish.
Wee Tiddler
Click to expand...

Yes, despite the fact he was an endotarter, he was always a pleasant chap to me. Endorsements, to me, seems to be his way of trying to "fit in" with what he calls the inner clique. As suspicious as it may have been to us - I think the situation has been seriously misunderstood.

If this is how TNP natives not involved in the government are feeling - isolated - we have a serious problem that needs addressing. And if this is true, and no one else shows any enthusiasm for turning this trend around, I will. This seriously addresses the very heart of our community.
 
Mm, I a TG worded differently but the gist was the same. I shan't repost the TG here, but I responded basically asking him to visit the forums to air his grievances, which I believe is the right of every TNP nation.
 
Morning all, can I just add my comments.

It's good to hear your thoughts on this issue are positive and constructive. I would class myself as one of those members who for one reason or another do not have the time or inclination to truly get involved in the politics of TNP. But that doesn not mean I'm either disinterested or out to bring down the regime.

Having been in a similar position to Wee Tiddle last year I can understand their frustrations. I was bluntly summonded to answer for my actions on the forum, the offence was seeking endorsements. The situation was eventually resolved, and if I recall rightly, Sydia did a good job as the voice of reason. It was just as well because it felt like the entire cabinet was lining up to give me a kicking.

The point I'm making is that some of the more aggressive elements within TNS shoot first and ask questions later so it was a big positive when I saw your comments about addressing this feeling of an us and them society operating here. Good luck in your efforts.
 
I'm glad you stopped by, VP. Thank you for the insight. I hope it more brightly highlights a problem that seems to have taken root within TNP. It seems to have possibly budded from anxious politicians, who, to be fair - have experienced a decent share of genuine security threats - often ending in disaster for the region.

But this anxiousness has no doubt been misapplied many a time, and may have even indirectly been harmful to the community. This is certainly an issue that should not be treated with a mere passing glance of disinterest...and its something I'd like to attempt to help reverse this term.
 
I think that most of our resident endotarters aren't of any threat, as they've been around here for ages and have never expressed any sign of political persuasion of any sort, much less a desire to control the region.

Frankly, continually antagonizing them is just plain stupid, as it might tick one off to the point that they would willingly allow themselves to be a vehicle to some kind of takeover, and I wouldn't blame them as WTOTW's tirade has a bit of truth in it.

But that's just my opinion.
 
Seems to me like we need some sort of official method, comprising of several stages, to deal with endotarting, the current system is rather ad-hoc (and clearly not working). I might also suggest that the duty of endotarter communication need not be the work of the delegate; it can be devolved to other government positions (Minister of Defence? Interior?) who then reports back to the delegate.

Might I suggest (stages are sequential and based on the assumption that the nation is still tarting. In all stages the forum addy should be given);
Stage 1) Introduce self, forums, bit of friendly blurb about the region and game in general. Explain our election system and how it relates to the game mechanics, and that endotarting is considered a security risk for this reason.
Stage 2) Ask why nation is still endorsing, politely ask them to cease.
Stage 3) Explain that endotarting is considered a serious security risk and continued endotarting will now lead to them being banned from the region.
Stage 4) At this stage new players will be better informed and have multiple requests and a warning to cease, so the only tarters left would be either idiots or usurpers (or perhaps both). Neither are good for the region, so they get a free trip to the RR.
 
Ok...you guys are seriously bugging. We have a good system already in regards to endotarters. I sent 2 messages to tarters....1 was Yarouza who was very polite and understood where I was coming from...the other was Tiddle there. That message was:
114.  Getting pretty close.  When u get to 118 Nations will begin to unendorse you.  Continue to tart after this point and the elected Delegate will most likely prepare for action against you.

We will contact you if that happens and you will be warned publicly via the WFE.

Hope it doesn't get to that.

Will be posting this message in the forum.  Feel free to reply there.

Tresville
Click to expand...

I don't see how that was threatening or rude. Keep in mind that Tiddle has been through this before...so that was not his first warning.

not done...must reboot....

Continuing...

We had 3 people...3 out of many WA's complain about the cap in what...6 months.....only 1 continues.

During my term and after I contacted EVERY SINGLE WA that has not endorsed me to see if they needed help, if their was anything they think needs changing, etc. So no one here can give me crap about..."Not speaking to the entire public." I don't know if past delegates have done that...but I have and posted it here more than once when I did it. Our RMB is active, spammers aren't running rampant as they have in the past and I answer 99.9 percent of every TG sent to my nation.

We have 1 member here complaining...1!!!! He has violated once in the past (not during my term) and I guarantee he won't violate again and remain in the region. I am not going to baby him or kiss his arse again. When he hits 118 his Endoes will go down and I will ask the elected Delegate if I can boot him once he passes the limit.

He starts an unendorsement campaign I will do the same.
 
How can discussing a serious issue bug you Tres, I thought that was the point in having a forum? As for having a good system, it obviously isn't that good if it's not working.
 
Tresville:
Ok...you guys are seriously bugging.  We have a good system already in regards to endotarters.  I sent 2 messages to tarters....1 was Yarouza who was very polite and understood where I was coming from...the other was Tiddle there.  That message was:
114.  Getting pretty close.  When u get to 118 Nations will begin to unendorse you.  Continue to tart after this point and the elected Delegate will most likely prepare for action against you.

We will contact you if that happens and you will be warned publicly via the WFE.

Hope it doesn't get to that.

Will be posting this message in the forum.  Feel free to reply there.

Tresville
Click to expand...

I dont see how that was threatning or rude. Keep in mind that Tiddle has been through this before...so that was not his first warning.

not done...must reboot....
Click to expand...
This issue has been brought up in both this and previous administrations, so clearly it is an issue that needs dealing with before it comes up again and we lose more potential active members over nothing.
 
All sides feel that theirs is the only or most valid way of playing the game.

It is to be expected that when we tell those playing the game as it was intended, that they are in some way at odds with the additional layers of complexity we have chosen to add (no matter how delicately it is phrased), on occasion they will take offence.

Perhaps part of the issue is that (at least I would guess this is the case) the only time we communicate with the long term Naturalites is when there is a problem, rather than there being an ongoing friendly dialogue.
 
Namyeknom:
All sides feel that theirs is the only or most valid way of playing the game.

It is to be expected that when we tell those playing the game as it was intended, that they are in some way at odds with the additional layers of complexity we have chosen to add (no matter how delicately it is phrased), on occasion they will take offence.

Perhaps part of the issue is that (at least I would guess this is the case) the only time we communicate with the long term Naturalites is when there is a problem, rather than there being an ongoing friendly dialogue.
Click to expand...
Agreed.

I also take issue with the fact that whenever we discuss them, most people tend to characterize them as a clear and present danger. If it was me, I'd take offense at being a constant source of paranoia by just casually playing the game it was meant to be played.
 
You're all speaking as if this is an all-or-nothing case - either we be super-nice to every endotarter without knowing their motives or we tell them to pack it in, or else, because they're filthy conspiring swine. Consider the middle ground; polite and helpful to new players who just want to 'play the game' (although if you ask me endotarting is a fairly boring game, but whatever) and keeping an eye on/booting if necessary those which pose a genuine risk.
 
The problem is that the only endotarters we ever talk about are our resident endotarters, the high influence long-time residents that Nameyekom calls Naturalites. I like that term, and will use it more often.

We haven't had a new endotarter around here in a long time, but there is a system in place to deal with them, and its a system that works.
 
I suppose in part it comes down to how you perceive the game should be played. I for one genuinely don't have the time to commit myself to a serious political position but I do like to dabble with acquiruing endorsements.

Isn't there room in the game for both camps?
 
Well, with the new amendment to the security council, there's going to be a lot of positions opening up to our Naturalites- since the Security Council won't be a very active body, it'll definitely give folks some degree of official sanction and perhaps put an end to this nonsense without people having to devote a bunch of their time to the offsite forum.
 
I have a few questions which may put things in perspective.

1) How many states make up TNP?

2) How many are active, and by that I mean seek endorsements or participate in debates?

3) If, as I suspect, the answer to 2 is significantly lower than 1 then what is the cause?
 
Sydia you're on the right track. Tres, as much as I applaud this government's very able efforts against endotarters - I must point out that I, at least, probably would have been a tad insulted by the TG of yours had I received it.

A system is necessary. With this in place, we might even be able to increase the activity of these forums. Additionally, we'll tactfully be able to cut away the idiots from the genuinely innocent citizens - no self-respecting TNPer would ignore all three stages of Sydia's suggestion. And it certainly shouldn't be coming from the Delegate - to be most effective during his term, his public image must stay as untarnished as absolutely possible...and this is one unnecessary way to muddy his hands with the natives.
 
@ VP;
1) About 2300, give or take a hundred either way.
2) There were 41 individual members of the RA as of the 9th Jan, by way of an example.
3) Don't know. Time, preference, who knows. But before you panic it's always been like this, even when TNP had thousands more nations only a fraction actively participated.

@ RB;
Thanks. Thought it might have some merit - we lose nothing, but may well gain more active members than we've seen with the current approach. Once it's a bit more polished I'll write it up for RA approval so it has the force of law behind it. Who do you believe should take responsibility for the stages?
 
Vaticania Prime:
How can discussing a serious issue bug you Tres, I thought that was the point in having a forum? As for having a good system, it obviously isn't that good if it's not working.
Click to expand...
Read what I said again please. I never said it was bugging me. I said "You guys are bugging" meaning your crazy to take his side when I was very very very nice to him and every other endotarter!! The last time they tarted and now.

RB, could you please next time pass such a message to a gov official prior to making it a public discussion. I posted in regards to Tiddle and the rest of the tarters and we could have had this discussion there first prior making it a public issue.

I'd also like to point out that he had to bitch and complain for u guys to get involved in a topic about security. Most avoided my posts in regards to tarters like it was the plague. This honestly disturbs and aggravates me.
 
Tresville:
Vaticania Prime:
How can discussing a serious issue bug you Tres, I thought that was the point in having a forum? As for having a good system, it obviously isn't that good if it's not working.
Click to expand...
Read what I said again please. I never said it was bugging me. I said "You guys are bugging" meaning your crazy to take his side when I was very very very nice to him and every other endotarter!! The last time they tarted and now.
Click to expand...
That's because new active members who feel welcomed are our lifeblood - especially with all the talk of NS being on the terminal decline. If a member doesn't feel welcomed and in fact feels insulted, we owe it to ourselves to find out why and see what we can do to change it.

I'd also like to point out that he had to bitch and complain for u guys to get involved in a topic about security.  Most avoided my posts in regards to tarters like it was the plague.  This honestly disturbs and aggravates me.
Click to expand...
It disturbs me too, but for different reasons I imagine - WTOTW obviously felt he had no other recourse other than to 'bitch and complain' to certain nations, which is a rum state of affairs to say the least, and goes back to my point above.
 
Sydia:
That's because new active members who feel welcomed are our lifeblood - especially with all the talk of NS being on the terminal decline. If a member doesn't feel welcomed and in fact feels insulted, we owe it to ourselves to find out why and see what we can do to change it.
Click to expand...
1. He is not a new member.
2. We have had problems with him before and he still doesn't listen.
3. He knows where to go to complain...he chose not to.
4. I am not catering to this 1 member who is behaving like a noob.

Pick a side...but tread softly.....for you tread on my dreams.

And yes I just added u to the WFE Tidler. Come bitch about it.
 
Vaticania Prime:
3) If, as I suspect, the answer to 2 is significantly lower than 1 then what is the cause?
Click to expand...
The game mechanics of the feeder (Pacific) regions ensures that the portion of the playerbase least interested in interaction with other players will always make up the bulk of their population. The Pacifics contain many involved players, yes, but also players who log in once a week, newbies who gave up, puppets, and people who solely play the Issues game and don't want to have to deal with other nations or regions. The latter always have and always will outnumber the former by a very large number.

That number may be reduced by a friendly, active and outgoing government, but even in the best case it will still be a very large number.
 
Tresville:
Sydia:
That's because new active members who feel welcomed are our lifeblood - especially with all the talk of NS being on the terminal decline. If a member doesn't feel welcomed and in fact feels insulted, we owe it to ourselves to find out why and see what we can do to change it.
Click to expand...
1. He is not a new member.
2. We have had problems with him before and he still doesn't listen.
3. He knows where to go to complain...he chose not to.
4. I am not catering to this 1 member who is behaving like a noob.

Pick a side...but tread softly.....for you tread on my dreams.

And yes I just added u to the WFE Tidler. Come bitch about it.
Click to expand...
1) Comparatively speaking, he is.
2) When and how?
3) Or believes there's not much point.
4) This could apply to any, WTOTW is just a case study, and not an isolated case at that.

Accusing me of picking sides, Tres? Bad form. See my sig for my philosophy on the game.
 
You posted the answer to #2 already when u gave a link to his OG thread.

Didn't accuse you of anything...I'm asking you to pick a side. Don't assume so much.

Read my sig and BW's sig for an understanding on how I play the game and life.

Also, please read through that original thread again. Pay attention to Al Homa's post as well.
 
Hell, I step out to watch Match of the Day and it all kicks off. Look Tres, I'll be as blunt about this as you are, your attitude stinks. You are aggresive, attempt to be intimidating, and about as welcoming to new players as a rottweiller with piles.

You need to understand that this is not your personal fiefdom to lord it over, and whilst you may believe your actions are done with good intent they are infact counter productive. You really do need to lighten up and step back from playing the Uncle Joe Stalin character.

Sorry to be so blunt but I felt it needed saying.
 
Rhindon Blade:
Sydia you're on the right track. Tres, as much as I applaud this government's very able efforts against endotarters - I must point out that I, at least, probably would have been a tad insulted by the TG of yours had I received it.
Click to expand...
RB, if u were Tidle and we had this same problem months ago...where I was very nice and proper and we had this discussion already...would you still be offended? Read the thread I am referring to again prior to answering please. Syd linked it here already.
 
Tres, I've recently received numerous TGs from other tarters expressing similar sentiments. This seems to be quite a problem.

I am not against these warnings, and the strict policy we have against these people. I have told them this very bluntly. But I do take issue with the way in which this is conducted. As does Sydia, I'm sure.

We have turned Wee Tiddler into what he is, Tres. A thorn in the government's side. This could have been avoided, had more tactful measures been taken.

By adding him the WFE, you're really not doing any favors to anyone. Just rubbing the salt into the wound...and for what purpose? I am confident that this government will be able to identify the problem and take measures to ensure that every TNP citizen (regardless of endorsements) is initially treated with respect and hospitality. If you aren't interested, thats your choice, but I definitely am.

Sydia:
Who do you believe should take responsibility for the stages?
Click to expand...

You take the credit, mate. Doesn't matter to me.

VP:
Hell, I step out to watch Match of the Day and it all kicks off. Look Tres, I'll be as blunt about this as you are, your attitude stinks.
Click to expand...

You were pretty blunt, VP. This isn't an attack on Tresville's person - but more accurately a discussion on the way in which the government operates on a particular matter. I understand the frustration you must experience - but lets maintain a certain level of respect to those who, without doubt, deserve it. Believe me.
 
Tresville:
You posted the answer to #2 already when u gave a link to his OG thread.

Didn't accuse you of anything...I'm asking you to pick a side.  Don't assume so much.

Read my sig and BW's sig for an understanding on how I play the game and life.

Also, please read through that original thread again.  Pay attention to Al Homa's post as well.
Click to expand...
And in the original thread it was fairly clear that WTOTW isn't an invader/usurper/other ne'er-do-well.
WTOTW:
There is a wee bit ‘taking yourselves a bit too seriously’ going around. I do not mind getting expelled, I have no idea what happens- it will be a whole new experience for me.
...
To be honest I really couldn’t give a monkey’s bum about endorsements, until I was told off and then they became so precious. I am sure you understand, “Don’t tread on me” and all that.
Click to expand...

Asking me to 'pick a side' is just as bad; I go with my own reasoning of what's best for the region. You may disagree, other people may agree, doesn't mean I'm actively seeking to align myself with anybody.

@ RB; If someone keeps me abreast of endotarters I'd have no problem sending TGs and contacting the delegate if the situation warrants it. The whole proposal needs properly looking at in the RA, though.
 
Vaticania Prime:
Hell, I step out to watch Match of the Day and it all kicks off. Look Tres, I'll be as blunt about this as you are, your attitude stinks. You are aggresive, attempt to be intimidating, and about as welcoming to new players as a rottweiller with piles.

You need to understand that this is not your personal fiefdom to lord it over, and whilst you may believe your actions are done with good intent they are infact counter productive. You really do need to lighten up and step back from playing the Uncle Joe Stalin character.

Sorry to be so blunt but I felt it needed saying.
Click to expand...
Be blunt...I have no problem with that nor would I be offended. But again...read the original thread again. Then tell me if my atitude stinks. In my opinion I am not out of line. This is not the first time we have had this problem with him and I would appreciate a lil more support.

I'm not asking anyone to kiss my ass. But if you don't appreciate what I do here, why I do it and how...let me know.

I would like to point out that unlike the past where security had to be very tight and I had to be careful to post what I did publicly, I have not been that way this time around. I am very open, I post what I intend to do and what I do for all to see. I also go out of my way to get new members in and make them feel at home. I change But I will not cater to 1 member who just doesn't get it.

I still don't see how my message to him was offensive in any way. Especially taking into account our past dealing with him.
 
Tresville:
Vaticania Prime:
Hell, I step out to watch Match of the Day and it all kicks off. Look Tres, I'll be as blunt about this as you are, your attitude stinks. You are aggresive, attempt to be intimidating, and about as welcoming to new players as a rottweiller with piles.

You need to understand that this is not your personal fiefdom to lord it over, and whilst you may believe your actions are done with good intent they are infact counter productive. You really do need to  lighten up and step back from playing the Uncle Joe Stalin character.

Sorry to be so blunt but I felt it needed saying.
Click to expand...
Be blunt...I have no problem with that nor would I be offended. But again...read the original thread again. Then tell me if my atitude stinks. In my opinion I am not out of line. This is not the first time we have had this problem with him and I would appreciate a lil more support.

I'm not asking anyone to kiss my ass. But if you don't appreciate what I do here, why I do it and how...let me know.

I would like to point out that unlike the past where security had to be very tight and I had to be careful to post what I did publicly, I have not been that way this time around. I am very open, I post what I intend to do and what I do for all to see. I also go out of my way to get new members in and make them feel at home. I change But I will not cater to 1 member who just doesn't get it.

I still don't see how my message to him was offensive in any way. Especially taking into account our past dealing with him.
Click to expand...
That's just the point Tres - this isn't 1 member or an isolated incident, it's a problem that's happened before but which we did nothing about. RB is right; our ad hoc and, let's be honest, curt and overtly suspicious treatment of WTOTW (and others) is winning no new members.

I too disagree with the current WFE; it serves no constructive purpose.
 
Tres, I'm well aware of the original thread because I got caught up in the endotarting purge at the same time.

"I still don't see how my message to him was offensive in any way. Especially taking into account our past dealing with him. "

I think you hit the nail on the head with that quote, You don't see, and that is the nub of the problem. It's always too easy to take your message as being confontational, even tonight you're demanding to know who's side Sydia is on. Please just consider the tone of your messages before firing them off. I mean that as a constructive criticism.
 
Must admit didn't really want to get involved in this conversation as I am one of the worst endotarters in the region. Sydia's suggestion seems reasonable for new members, but as Tresville has put his position this is not a new member who has not been through the process before. I have sent a private message to Tresville in more detail about my current position, but basically I don't think the telegram to Wee Tiddler was appropriate for a different reason. Wee Tiddler knew what they were doing and were within the limit (however close they had got). Some people will always push things to the limit (like me with endotarting), once people know what they are doing there is no need for further reminders, it should just be you crossed the line you take the punishment.
If people feel there is a need for further warnings in these situations, or when the endocap has recently changed and someone might not have noticed, perhaps it should just be "Are you endorsing so much in order to get on the Security Council? Please continue to respect the endocap limit of ..."
 
Whatever is happening, one thing we know. Our methods are the cause of ongoing discontent. And this is enough to warrant an official policy on the matter. Sydia's proposal will accommodate for this.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top