Tresville
TNPer
**Note** All members in this room were made aware that the chat is public and will be recorded.
Room is Moderated
Gov Officials are OPS
RA and citizens voiced
Visitors are devoiced
01[01:20] <Cisco> -start transcript-
01[01:20] <Cisco> [01:19] <Felasia> I guess my first question is what is your policy on the war with TEP? Diplomatic or Military?
01[01:20] <Cisco> Well, when I post my speech that will be clear
01[01:20] <Cisco> but basically
01[01:20] <Cisco> I will not be recognizing that government
01[01:20] <Cisco> the RA will decide that
01[01:21] <Cisco> I will be having negotiations with them this week
01[01:21] <Cisco> I have already set that up
01[01:21] <Cisco> point of that is to end the war
03[01:21] * Biyah has joined #thenorthpacific
03[01:21] * Retrieving #thenorthpacific modes...
01[01:21] <Cisco> now they will know off hand...that i will not repremand anyone
01[01:22] <Cisco> nor will i be making the decision on recognizing the gov
01[01:22] <Cisco> that will be up to the RA
01[01:22] <Cisco> if that does not end well...
[01:23] <Felasia> It should be take into consideration that some specific members action leads to this conflict, will you forbid RA member from working aganist TEP new government until discussion in RA is complete?
01[01:23] <Cisco> well...I cannot openly discuss our actions after that for obvious reasons
01[01:23] <Cisco> yes sir
[01:23] <Felasia> Or working aganist TEP former government too.
01[01:23] <Cisco> i see that as them threatning peace
01[01:23] <Cisco> yes
01[01:23] <Cisco> i will deal with them harshly and to the full extent of the law
01[01:23] <Cisco> i don't care if your an RA or Admin
01[01:24] <Cisco> we need peace to move forward
01[01:24] <Cisco> but if we are left with war...so be it
01[01:24] <Cisco> i'd rather not...but that is not my decision
01[01:25] <Cisco> but I will delegate promptly either way
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03[01:25] * Cisco sets mode: +o Sniffles
[01:26] <Eluvatar> Ahah.
01[01:26] <Cisco> Forensatha is RA right?
[01:26] <Eluvatar> No
01[01:26] <Cisco> ah.k
01[01:27] <Cisco> U brought up a good point earlier Fela
01[01:27] <Cisco> about moderation
03[01:27] * Biyah is now known as Lord_Rahl
03[01:27] * Dali|schoolwork is now known as Lady_Anastasia
01[01:27] <Cisco> I discussed this with the admins some time ago
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03[01:27] * ChanServ sets mode: +o Darth-Zorn
03[01:27] * Cisco sets mode: -o Darth-Zorn
01[01:28] <Cisco> first we will be adding a new admin
01[01:28] <Cisco> then ading some global mods
01[01:28] <Cisco> adding*
01[01:29] <Cisco> and after the quick elections for gov officials are over...those members will designate who they choose to be their subordinates and they will have the mod powers needed to go about governing their respective sections
01[01:29] <Cisco> now we are still under TOS rules
01[01:29] <Cisco> so violations should be treated as such by admins and global mods
01[01:29] <Cisco> with no favoritism
[01:30] <Felasia> Adding new admins is a good start, but what of the old Admin? Will action be taken aganist them if they violated the policy of the region?
01[01:30] <Cisco> a new Moderation section will be up
01[01:30] <Cisco> not only for masking requests...but for violations as well
01[01:30] <Cisco> the moderation is not up for discussion in regards to tos
01[01:30] <Cisco> we have been under tos for over 5 years already
01[01:31] <Cisco> i believe we have talked that to death and know how to distinguish between violations
01[01:31] <Cisco> "violated" no...unless u bring it to the ra and they decide otherwise
[01:32] <Eluvatar> I am alarmed.
01[01:32] <Cisco> u are speaking about the past...not under my policy
[01:32] <Eluvatar> Under my administration, our policy has been that we have recognized that a war was declared upon us by Gatesville and the Empire.
[01:33] <Felasia> Example would be what I suggest before about no action taken aganist the Empire until the negotiation is concluded. Will there be action aganist admin if they covertly or publically attack The Empire?
[01:33] <Eluvatar> The idea of taking action against members of the region who acted in coordination with our regional policy after it changes because their actions then are inconsistent with the new policy strikes me as very strange,
[01:33] <Eluvatar> or did I misunderstand your question?
01[01:33] <Cisco> well...that is something I am discussing and that is a very good question
[01:34] <Felasia> My point is that after Tresville become delegate, he is going to start negotiation with the Empire. And I believe that we should not act aggressively aganist neither the Empire or Confederate until the RA have decided the position of the region.
01[01:35] <Cisco> yes fela
01[01:35] <Cisco> first i will make sure that i can take action if people violate
01[01:35] <Cisco> i already know what they will say
01[01:35] <Cisco> they are acting not as gov officials but as individuals
01[01:36] <Cisco> fine..then I will ask them to remove themselves if they want to continue to act against the empire during negotiations
01[01:37] <Cisco> if they don't...i will be seeking a decision by either the RA or court to make sure they can be quickly prosecuted if they act against peace during the talks
[01:37] <Eluvatar> Why should we not act against the Empire before negotiations are concluded?
[01:37] <Felasia> Ehh, I don't no either, but it's sound like a good start to established peace.
03[01:38] * Darth-Zorn has left #thenorthpacific
01[01:38] <Cisco> because it is threatning peace
[01:38] <Eluvatar> We are at war.
[01:38] <Eluvatar> What peace is there to threaten?
01[01:38] <Cisco> u mean u believe we can have no peace?
01[01:38] <Cisco> are u serious?
[01:39] <Eluvatar> No.
[01:39] <Eluvatar> I mean that at this time there is not peace.
01[01:39] <Cisco> ah...ok
[01:39] <Eluvatar> For all we know, the Empire is busy sending in agents to destabilize and seize control over our region.
01[01:39] <Cisco> ok. So what do u suggest...a cease fire until discussions end?
[01:40] <Eluvatar> If the our region and Empire agrees to some sort of cease fire, then it would be justified to ask North Pacific members not to pursue actions against the Empire.
[01:40] <Eluvatar> Unless that happens I see no reason to.
01[01:40] <Cisco> I understand.
01[01:40] <Cisco> would anyone here object to LR being voiced for a moment to speak?
[01:41] <Eluvatar> I would prefer removing moderation
[01:41] <Eluvatar> but that is my own unimportant preference.
[01:41] <Felasia> I agree with Elu.
01[01:41] <Cisco> well brother...its our room..not mine...vote to remove it in general from all meetings and we will remove it
[01:42] <Eluvatar> I mean in this instance, not necessarily this meeting.
[01:42] <Eluvatar> *all meetings
01[01:42] <Cisco> ok. anyone else?
01[01:42] <Cisco> I will be voicing LR
01[01:42] <Cisco> going once
01[01:42] <Cisco> going twice
01[01:42] <Cisco> sold to the lady with the pink bag
03[01:43] * Cisco sets mode: +v Lord_Rahl
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[01:43] <Lord_Rahl> First: There are TNP operatives actively working against TEP, as we have in TNP. We have always done exactly what we said we would do. If there are to be talks, we will halt our attacks. If anyone from TNP acts against us during that time, it will be an immediate end to the talks.
03[01:43] * Blue_Wolf has joined #thenorthpacific
[01:43] <Lord_Rahl> Second: Lady Anastasia has not officially been approached for -any- talks.
03[01:43] * Cisco sets mode: +v Blue_Wolf
01[01:44] <Cisco> yes. Only because I have not officially been delegate till a few hours ago
01[01:44] <Cisco> that was actually my next order of business
[01:44] <Lord_Rahl> Third: We do not recognize 'acting as an individual' as a defense. If flem, khark or elu continue to work for the Confederacy, we will consider it an act of war and there will be no talks.
06[01:44] * Lord_Rahl confers with the Empress and Grand Duchess for a moment
01[01:44] <Cisco> and u speak for The Empire in whole correct?
[01:45] <Lord_Rahl> I do.
01[01:45] <Cisco> good
01[01:45] <Cisco> just didn't want any complications.
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01[01:46] <Cisco> So, when i get assurances that our members will not act if we have a cease fire...we can officially negotiate correct?
[01:47] <Lord_Rahl> We can. But we have to see proof that TNP has laid down that law. If it is broken, and the transgressors are not given more then a light slap on the wrist, we will continue the war with no hope for future peaceful resolution.
03[01:47] * Neebug is now known as Lady_Phedre
[01:48] <Sniffles> well just what kind of punishment do you want? ejection?
[01:48] <Lord_Rahl> We would remove said individuals from government, if they went against what our government decided.
[01:48] <Lord_Rahl> I would expect nothing less.
01[01:48] <Cisco> That is understandable LR. And i will not approach u for a cease fire until then.
[01:48] <Eluvatar> I see.
01[01:49] <Cisco> well...keep in mind that...so far..only the CLO, Delegate and VD are the gov
[01:49] <Lord_Rahl> Let me be frank.
[01:49] <Eluvatar> Lord_Rahl, may I mention the terms you previously stated as the only possible terms for peace?
[01:49] <Eluvatar> Or rather, may I describe them?
[01:49] <Lord_Rahl> We are at war. We know what the intentions of the Empire are. If we're going to speak, then all activities against us will stop while we talk. I make no promises as to the end result.
01[01:49] <Cisco> u mean prior to this discussion Elu?
[01:50] <Lord_Rahl> We don't care if TNP enters talks or not, so we are going to be very strict as to our necessary pre-requisites.
[01:50] <Eluvatar> Yes.
01[01:50] <Cisco> I don't see why that matters Elu
01[01:50] <Cisco> they have the right to change their mind
[01:50] <Lord_Rahl> How about I describe them for you: We said TNP had to join the Empire.
01[01:50] <Cisco> plus this is a new cabinet
[01:50] <Eluvatar> Thank you Lord Rahl.
[01:50] <Lord_Rahl> Our demands now are not known.
[01:51] <Lord_Rahl> These are our prerequisites for a talk, only.
01[01:51] <Cisco> it's good to be clear
[01:51] <Eluvatar> Do you have the authority to, in that case, also have Gatesville, The New Inquisition, and company recognize a cease fire?
[01:51] <Lord_Rahl> Our demands for the cessation of war are not known to you at this time.
[01:52] <Eluvatar> Your current ones, assuming they are different, are unknown. Yes.
[01:52] <Lord_Rahl> And yes, we can process a general cease-fire, for good reason.
01[01:52] <Cisco> I think we understand each other so far LR. Anything else...we just had someone booted!
[01:54] <Lord_Rahl> The Empire has no other concerns at the moment.
01[01:55] <Cisco> cool. Talk to u in a few then.
01[01:56] <Cisco> and thanks
03[01:56] * Cisco sets mode: -v Lord_Rahl
01[01:57] <Cisco> Tormin was just booted guys
01[01:57] <Cisco> from TNP obviously
01[01:59] <Cisco> ok...anyway...any other questions?
01[01:59] <Cisco> suggestions?
01[01:59] <Cisco> i will be requesting that the forum structure be rearranged
[01:59] <Felasia> How many ministries do you intend to established?
[01:59] <Eluvatar> What kind of rearrangement do you intend to request?
01[01:59] <Cisco> and will be changing how a few ministries work
01[02:00] <Cisco> at the moment I will be keeping the ones we already have
01[02:00] <Cisco> but adding things to them
01[02:00] <Cisco> for example
01[02:00] <Cisco> I will create a more open intel agency
01[02:00] <Cisco> which will go under Defense
[02:01] <Eluvatar> How open is more open?
01[02:01] <Cisco> The ISA
01[02:01] <Cisco> Intel and Security Agency
[02:01] <Eluvatar> I see
01[02:01] <Cisco> i mean..open to anyone with RA status..or citizen status
01[02:02] <Cisco> the citizen status will be discussed soon
[02:02] <Eluvatar> Do you believe that if a war were to continue, Gatesville and the Empire would be able to take the Delegacy from you?
[02:03] <Blue_Wolf> Is Gatesville and the empire one in the same?
01[02:03] <Cisco> nope
01[02:03] <Cisco> wait
[02:03] <Eluvatar> Why have we taken a format where everybody but Cisco asks questions and he is pushed into answering them?
01[02:03] <Cisco> that was to the second part
01[02:03] <Cisco> lol
[02:04] <Blue_Wolf> Then where is Gatesville on this one?
[02:04] <Eluvatar> Why am I asking questions about why I am asking questions?
01[02:04] <Cisco> <Eluvatar> Do you believe that if a war were to continue, Gatesville and the Empire would be able to take the Delegacy from you?
01[02:04] <Cisco> Unlikely, but this is NS
[02:04] <Eluvatar> Why am I asking questions about why I am asking questions
about my questioning? ... wait, scratch that.
01[02:04] <Cisco> nothing is certain
[02:04] <Felasia> Becasue Cisco didn't ask anything?
01[02:04] <Cisco> I mean...Kandarin was unseated before
01[02:04] <Cisco> I asked a lot
01[02:05] <Cisco> mainly for questions...lol
[02:05] <Eluvatar> Does Kandarin have access to the Ban button?
[02:05] <Eluvatar>
[02:05] <Eluvatar> That was rhetorical >_>
[02:05] <Eluvatar> my apologies
[02:05] <falconias> lol
01[02:05] <Cisco> <Blue_Wolf> Then where is Gatesville on this one?
01[02:05] <Cisco> From my understanding...they are backing The Empire...but they are not The Empire
[02:06] <Eluvatar> I agree with Cisco's assessment.
01[02:06] <Cisco> Gatesvilleis and always shall be working in their best interests
[02:06] <Blue_Wolf> @ Cisco, so this is just an agreement with the Empire?
[02:06] <Blue_Wolf> Not Gatesville?
[02:06] <Sniffles> what's this about tnp joining the empire?
[02:06] <Eluvatar> Blue_Wolf, I have noticed that the Empire's delegate consistently votes with Gatesville, so that may be the whole point from their perspective.
01[02:07] <Cisco> I will also speak to them
[02:07] <Eluvatar> Sniffles, Lord Rahl stated that as the single and irrevocable condition for peace some time ago.
01[02:07] <Cisco> I actually have had more discussions with gatesville than anyone else
[02:07] <Eluvatar> Cisco is right on that.
01[02:07] <Cisco> [02:06] <Blue_Wolf> @ Cisco, so this is just an agreement with the Empire?
01[02:08] <Cisco> We just discussed prerequisites for a cease fire
01[02:08] <Cisco> thats all
[02:08] <Blue_Wolf> Spooky
01[02:08] <Cisco> is it?
01[02:08] <Cisco> don't be scurred
01[02:09] <Cisco> Oh, BW...i need an Invader advocate
[02:09] <Blue_Wolf> Really now?
01[02:09] <Cisco> not this minute
01[02:09] <Cisco> but sooner than later
[02:09] <Blue_Wolf> Oh sure, bate me with it why don't you
[02:09] <Eluvatar> What does an Invader Advocate do?
01[02:09] <Cisco> talks to invaders
06[02:09] * falconias is also present for military representation...
01[02:10] <Cisco> i am looking to level out the playing field once and for all
01[02:10] <Cisco> before we have ben rather...Gray as u say
01[02:10] <Cisco> been*
[02:10] <Blue_Wolf> I accept
[02:10] <Blue_Wolf>
[02:10] <Eluvatar> Do you not believe in Grey?
[02:10] <falconias> so are you suggesting that the TNP ally with raiders and counter-attack against The Empire?
01[02:10] <Cisco> i want to make us officially neutral
[02:10] <Eluvatar> Ah.
[02:10] <Eluvatar> Does Neutral mean both or neither?
01[02:10] <Cisco> Let me explain Falconias
[02:10] <falconias> ok
06[02:11] * Eluvatar waits
01[02:11] <Cisco> plain and simple...we are a feeder...we represent NS
01[02:11] <Cisco> that means Defenders and invaders
01[02:11] <Cisco> they are both welcome
01[02:11] <Cisco> I hope to make the NPA a standing army only
01[02:11] <Cisco> They act in our best interest
01[02:11] <Cisco> and I will be making that rather fun
01[02:11] <Cisco> for example...
01[02:12] <Cisco> RMB violaters
01[02:12] <Cisco> the new scum of NS!!
01[02:12] <Cisco> I have a plan for them
01[02:12] <Cisco> i wont tip my hand yet
01[02:12] <Cisco> but i will be having talks with all feeders on that one
01[02:12] <Cisco> have already begun preliminary discussions
01[02:13] <Cisco> We need to lay some ground rules in regards to defenders and invaders in TNP
01[02:13] <Cisco> Bith do things that we all deem as wrong
01[02:13] <Cisco> forum crashing
01[02:14] <Cisco> OOC attacks
01[02:14] <Cisco> etc
01[02:14] <Cisco> so we need to make sure that invaders and defenders that we become friendly with...ara good crop...worthy of being represented in a feeder
[02:14] <Eluvatar> Under the COPS treaty, we have obligations about forum crashing.
01[02:14] <Cisco> that is not my decision by the way
01[02:15] <Cisco> yes Elu
[02:15] <Blue_Wolf> Cisco, are all your plans copies from what other feeders have done? Or new an improved?
01[02:15] <Cisco> totally different
[02:15] <Blue_Wolf> O R:Y?
01[02:15] <Cisco> i will not be picking on regions
01[02:15] <Cisco> very different
[02:16] <Eluvatar> So your plan that you will not state does not consist of invading regions who violate our RMB rules?
01[02:16] <Cisco> TWP defended its board by raiding
01[02:16] <Cisco> i will not suggest that
01[02:16] <Cisco> nor am i
01[02:16] <Cisco> i have to be ...careful and not reveal those plans
01[02:16] <Cisco> so forgive me for not explaining more
[02:17] <Eluvatar> You are forgiven
01[02:17] <Cisco> i just don't want things trumped before they even begin
01[02:17] <Cisco> i prefer mention...act and then discuss
01[02:17] <Cisco> rather than discuss things to death and do nothing
01[02:18] <Cisco> I will be bringing that up as a side note if the Talks with TEP go well
[02:18] <Eluvatar> I have a question.
01[02:18] <Cisco> shoot
[02:19] <Eluvatar> What is regional sovereignty?
[02:19] <Eluvatar> More specifically,
[02:19] <Eluvatar> what regional sovereignty does or should TNP claim for itself as inalienable?
01[02:19] <Cisco> in game or off site
01[02:19] <Cisco> makes a difference
01[02:20] <Cisco> u mean their are different regional sovereingties to claim?
[02:20] <Eluvatar> Both
01[02:20] <Cisco> i thought sovereignty was rather...one general thing
[02:21] <Eluvatar> What freedom of action is TNP's basic sovereignty
01[02:21] <Cisco> in regards to what specifically...war on Spammers and how we will act?
01[02:22] <Cisco> or how we will act in a war like we are currently in?
[02:23] <Eluvatar> I meant foreign policy overall, but I was concerned with the latter case
01[02:23] <Cisco> chess not checkers brother. I will not reveal until the time is necessary what our actions will or might be.
01[02:24] <Cisco> The RA will determine policy
[02:24] <Eluvatar> Specifically, I would like to ask if you could list some rights of TNP as a region in the categories of inalienable, negotiable, and absent.
[02:24] <Eluvatar> As a matter of theory.
01[02:24] <Cisco> I will decide on a course of action unless otherwise told by the RA
[02:25] <Eluvatar> So you do not accept my theoretical framework of the existence of sovereign rights?
01[02:25] <Cisco> we have the right to govern our region, protect it, and act in its best interests
[02:25] <Eluvatar> Alright, now we are getting somewhere.
[02:25] <Eluvatar> Would you say that TNP has a right to run its own government without outside interventions?
01[02:26] <Cisco> Umm...yeah...hello. U forget that this was my policy for years...u forget the ADN, Twoslits "old Boys Club" which is the real one
01[02:27] <Cisco> I need to search for a Sydia quote that applies...1 sec
[02:27] <Blue_Wolf> I...remember those days... V_V
[02:27] <falconias> ugh, ADN...
01[02:27] <Cisco> (edit: need permission to post quote from Sydia)
01[02:27] <Cisco>
01[02:28] <Cisco> Quoting Sydia
[02:28] <Eluvatar> Okay.
01[02:28] <Cisco> I actually can't post that unless he gives me permission..so that will not be posted until he does
[02:28] <Eluvatar> What, besides the operation of our government itself, should be considered internal matters?
01[02:28] <Cisco> but I see where your going with that Elu
01[02:29] <Cisco> I'll get to that....but u think so far...that The Empire is trying or has been...influenceing us?
01[02:29] <Cisco> Spell check
[02:29] <Blue_Wolf> CHECK!
[02:29] <Eluvatar> It is the stated goal of the Empire to overthrow our government and replace it with one that flies their flag.
03[02:29] * Lord_Rahl is now known as Biyah
[02:29] <Eluvatar> If they choose to limit their goals, I would be quite happy with that.
01[02:30] <Cisco> ok. after war was already declared correct?
01[02:30] <Cisco> that was said?
[02:30] <Eluvatar> Yes, although they made noises that indicated such interest from the start.
[02:30] <Eluvatar> Lord Rahl has insisted that those noises were badly misunderstood, of course.
[02:30] <Eluvatar> What, in general, is in the interests of a feeder region such as The North Pacific?
01[02:30] <Cisco> indication...that can be interpreted
[02:31] <Eluvatar> I meant the post "The Empire Comes"
01[02:31] <Cisco> I know LR. once u offend...he will seek to not only kill but also turn your bones to dust
[02:31] <Eluvatar> And he takes no interest in avoiding offense it seems.
01[02:32] <Cisco> but he can also be reasonable if u approach him properly
[02:32] <Eluvatar> I may be wrong in my assessment of course, or biased.
01[02:32] <Cisco> and i believe that was a problem
[02:32] <Eluvatar> http://z13.invisionfree.invalid/TNP/index.php?showtopic=4633
03[02:32] * Lady_Anastasia is now known as Dali
01[02:33] <Cisco> What, in general, is in the interests of a feeder region such as The North Pacific?
06[02:33] * Eluvatar listens
01[02:34] <Cisco> First, our best interests should be the members in our region..their happiness. Which we have to keep in mind...most...dont care
01[02:34] <Cisco> this is a game
01[02:34] <Cisco> they play for their reasons
01[02:34] <Cisco> so our next concern are those that do care
[02:35] <falconias> those that do care vote in the RA
01[02:35] <Cisco> and that is where the RMB and offsite board community blend
01[02:35] <Cisco> not exactly Falc
01[02:35] <Cisco> because we have people that when I speak to them...they are generally concerned and act in our best interest
01[02:36] <Cisco> and these people have yet to come to the forum
[02:36] <falconias> no
01[02:36] <Cisco> or have posted 5 times in 5 years
[02:36] <falconias> you misinterpreted me slightly
01[02:36] <Cisco> but they post in the RMB..unendorse dictators and more
01[02:36] <Cisco> oh, sorry
[02:36] <falconias> i was just saying that it would probably be a safe bet to say that those who do vote in the RA care about the region
01[02:36] <Cisco> nope
[02:37] <falconias> I agree that there are plenty of nations who probably care about the region but don't want to be caught up in the political affairs
[02:37] <falconias> no?
01[02:37] <Cisco> u have to remember that the RA is open
[02:37] <falconias> that is true
01[02:37] <Cisco> we have members there that vote in their best interests
[02:37] <falconias> but why would you vote if you dont care?
01[02:37] <Cisco> it happens
[02:37] <falconias> of course
01[02:37] <Cisco> their best interests
[02:37] <falconias> yes
[02:37] <falconias> federal voters in RL
[02:37] <falconias> do they vote in their best interests or the country's best interests?
01[02:37] <Cisco> but I want to work with the SPeaker...if he isn't upset at me
01[02:37] <Cisco> to reform the RA
[02:38] <falconias> i would be inclined to argue that a lot of voters would vote for whats best for them
01[02:38] <Cisco> I do not want to lehislate though
01[02:38] <Cisco> I want to urge that the RA...legislate...where needed
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[02:38] <Eluvatar> Ahah
[02:38] <Eluvatar> I have been known to write legislation
01[02:38] <Cisco> yes but...what is goos for the goose is good for the gander only applies when its the same Gander
01[02:39] <Cisco> in other words...the Duality proble,
[02:39] <falconias> care to explain?
[02:39] <falconias> ah.
01[02:39] <Cisco> Problem*
[02:39] <Eluvatar> What's good for General Motors ain't necessarily good for TNP?
[02:39] <Eluvatar>
01[02:39] <Cisco> we have RA members that hold citizenship elsewhere
[02:39] <Eluvatar> I do.
[02:39] <Eluvatar> I am a Citizen of Taijitu.
01[02:39] <Cisco> some we can trust that they will keep those seperate
01[02:39] <Cisco> others we can't trust
[02:39] <falconias> obviously
01[02:39] <Cisco> and it is easy to spot those if u read up
01[02:40] <Cisco> find out about them
01[02:40] <Cisco> their pat
01[02:40] <Cisco> their posts
01[02:40] <Cisco> and make your own decision on their character
[02:40] <falconias> such as?
01[02:40] <Cisco> past*
[02:40] <falconias> if i dare ask
[02:40] <Eluvatar> Hm.
03[02:40] * falconias is now known as Falconias
01[02:40] <Cisco> u dare...I may not answer though
01[02:40] <Cisco> lol
[02:40] <Eluvatar> So you have stated that the interests of a feeder lie in the happiness of its nations
[02:40] <Falconias> lol fair enough didnt really expect an answer
[02:40] <Eluvatar> am I understanding you right?
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01[02:41] <Cisco> yes...mainly on those who care that u govern them
[02:41] <Blue_Wolf> Ask the damn question >_<
01[02:41] <Cisco> ask...u never know
[02:41] <Falconias> i did ask BW
06[02:41] * Blue_Wolf scrolls up
01[02:41] <Cisco> [02:40] <falconias> such as?
01[02:41] <Cisco> missed that
[02:41] <Eluvatar> [02:40:30] <@Eluvatar> am I understanding you right?
01[02:42] <Cisco> 1 sec
03[02:42] * Eluvatar sets mode: +v GMT
01[02:43] <Cisco> U want to know who in my opinion. I am delegate now...i have enough enemies that follow me around and people that dislike me. I'd rather be responsible, refrain from answering so that I don't have people up their attacks.
[02:43] <Eluvatar> <explanation> According to the roll of RA members that I see, PoD Gunner is an RA member. </explanation>
01[02:43] <Cisco> [02:40] <Eluvatar> am I understanding you right?
01[02:43] <Cisco> [02:40] * MontanaMax has joined #thenorthpacific
01[02:43] <Cisco> [02:41] <Cisco> yes...mainly on those who care that u govern them
[02:43] <Eluvatar> ah
[02:43] <Eluvatar> I must be tired.
01[02:43] <Cisco> yes..thats GMT right
01[02:44] <Cisco> Falc...I encourage u to point them out when u see them though
[02:44] <Eluvatar> So far you have stated that TNP's regional sovereignty includes the right to its own government and the right to pursue its interests which lie in the happiness of its people?
01[02:45] <Cisco> point out that they are not helping...but rather being negative and counter productive
01[02:46] <Cisco> that should be a statement not a question. but the people should come before the government there
01[02:46] <Cisco> u can't have one...nor would it have power with out them
01[02:46] <Cisco> though in NS...some people would argue about me on that one
[02:46] <Eluvatar> okay.
01[02:46] <Cisco> with me*
[02:46] <Eluvatar> Two follow-up questions:
[02:47] <Falconias> CiscoFalc...I encourage u to point them out when u see them though
[02:47] <Falconias> hmm?
[02:47] <Falconias> who?
[02:47] <Falconias> suspicious members of the RA?
01[02:47] <Cisco> People say democracy in NS doesn't work. but I believe the strive for it is important and defines us as a community
[02:47] <Eluvatar> 1. What is the realm of action for TNP's government? What in-game actions does it govern? What forum actions?
[02:47] <Eluvatar> 2. What do you think the people want?
01[02:47] <Cisco> members in gereral who obviously have their best interests or the interests of other regions in mind when they are posting or voting
[02:47] <Eluvatar> And I will finish my Quisition for the night.
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03[02:48] * ChanServ sets mode: +o flemingovia
01[02:48] <Cisco> realm of action....the RA dictates that in TNP.
[02:48] <Felasia> <+falconias> ugh, ADN... <= Ugh, FRA.... sorry couldn't resist. XD
[02:48] <Falconias> ugh equilism...
01[02:49] <Cisco> in game
[02:49] <flemingovia> morning
01[02:49] <Cisco> forum actions...anything outside of TOS
01[02:49] <Cisco> Which I hope to get rid of in a few months
01[02:50] <Cisco> dont ask cause i wont tell!!
01[02:50] <Cisco> lol
[02:50] <Falconias> morning??
06[02:50] * Falconias looks at time
[02:50] <Falconias> shit son I should be going to bed ?
01[02:50] <Cisco> nite
01[02:50] <Cisco> i need a cigg
01[02:50] <Cisco> brb
01[02:51] <Cisco> u can continue to talk
01[02:51] <Cisco> or should we pasue the transcript?
01[02:51] <Cisco> Pause
[02:51] <Falconias> im still here
[02:51] <Falconias> my roommates are too loud
[02:52] <flemingovia> So what have I missed?
[02:52] <Eluvatar> ALot
[02:52] <Blue_Wolf> tons
[02:53] <Eluvatar> dum de dum
01[02:54] <Cisco> if no ones else wants to discuss Gov stuff...we can end the transcript and talk in #tnp
01[02:54] <Cisco> I will post this in a few after that
01[02:54] <Cisco> in the forum
[02:54] <Falconias> wait
[02:54] <Falconias> since when were we talking about Gov?
[02:55] <Falconias> oh government
[02:55] <Falconias> haha, lol
[02:55] <Eluvatar> Are you going to answer the rest of my last 2 questions?
01[02:56] <Cisco> oh, sorry
01[02:56] <Cisco> I think they want peace, a viable government that gives them the chance to be represented
01[02:56] <Cisco> others just want to anwer their issues and not be bothered
01[02:56] <Cisco> answer
01[02:58] <Cisco> Honestly, people talk a lot of crap about the "Old Guard" but those same people were given the right to speak, protest, vote and interact byeveryone they call "Old Guard"
01[02:59] <Cisco> it is a shame that loyal and true patriots are personified in a way that skews their real interests
01[02:59] <Cisco> and intentions
[03:00] <Falconias> i say lets just let BW run everythig
[03:00] <Falconias>
[03:00] <Falconias> *everything
01[03:00] <Cisco> he already does
01[03:00] <Cisco> ooops
[03:00] <Eluvatar> That's a great plan Falconias. Where's the dotted line to sign?
01[03:00] <Cisco> is that on record
[03:00] <Eluvatar> Yes
01[03:00] <Cisco> whoops
01[03:00] <Cisco> lol
[03:00] <Eluvatar> Because we are being so sincere, right now.
[03:01] <Falconias> dotted line?
[03:01] <Falconias> _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
[03:01] <Falconias> sign there
[03:01] <Falconias> and you have control of TNP for life
[03:01] <Eluvatar>
[03:01] <Eluvatar> I thought that was for Blue Wolf having control though...
[03:01] <Falconias> fine print: you are also my sexual slave for the next 30 years or so and must obey my every command
[03:01] <Falconias> *cough* you read nothing
[03:02] <Falconias> just sign on the dotted line please!
[03:02] <Eluvatar> O_O
[03:02] <Eluvatar> No
[03:02] <Falconias>
[03:02] <Falconias> damn
[03:03] <flemingovia> hmmm.
[03:03] <Eluvatar> Felasia, are you available for a word?
[03:03] <flemingovia> I have seen the log of this conversation, and would like to add something?
[03:03] <Falconias> word
[03:03] <Eluvatar> Not Falconias XD
03[03:03] * Falconias is now known as Fel
[03:03] <Fel> word
[03:03] <Eluvatar> No
03[03:03] * Fel is now known as Falconias
[03:03] <Eluvatar> Don't make me devoice you
[03:03] <Eluvatar> >_>
[03:03] <Falconias>
[03:03] <Eluvatar> flem?
[03:04] <Falconias> fine fine
[03:04] <flemingovia> yes?
[03:04] <Falconias> flemingoviaI have seen the log of this conversation, and would like to add something?
[03:04] <flemingovia> yes
[03:04] <Falconias> which is?
[03:05] <flemingovia> I would like to point out that I have two positions in this.
[03:05] <Eluvatar> I believe you are free to speak.
02[03:05] * Blue_Wolf has quit IRC (Quit: Bye all)
[03:05] <flemingovia> Not only am I a member of TNP, but also of the East Pacific, elected war chief of TEP.
[03:05] <Eluvatar> On the record.
[03:06] <Falconias> o_O
[03:06] <flemingovia> I would trust that my actions as war chief would not bring me under prosecution in TNP. THat would be absurd.
[03:06] <Eluvatar> Cisco: are you willing to respond to that statement at this time?
[03:06] <flemingovia> I have told CiscO that I will not be using z13 or the TNP RMB for any actions without government permission.
[03:06] <flemingovia> and that I intend to stick to.
[03:07] <flemingovia> But I will not countenance TNP interference in z1, the TEP forum, or its government.
01[03:07] <Cisco> I thought I answered that a few times
01[03:07] <Cisco> but on record
[03:07] <Eluvatar> As a point of evidence, I as Delegate have authorized confrontation with the Empire, my personal authority having just expired.
01[03:08] <Cisco> and i ahve already said this a few times to the leadres of TEP currently
01[03:08] <Cisco> I will not repremand anyone from the past administration for their in War actions
01[03:08] <Cisco> nor will I dictate our foreign policy
[03:09] <Falconias> alright champs
[03:09] <Falconias> I'm out for the night
01[03:09] <Cisco> the RA will decide whether or not to recognize that gov
[03:09] <flemingovia> I jsut wanted to make it clear so that members of the Empire do not cry foul if actions are taken on z1 or the TEP RMB.
[03:09] <flemingovia> or by me as a player on behalf of the TEP government.
01[03:10] <Cisco> I will cry foul if thise actions are done if we reach a cease fire
01[03:10] <Cisco> and frankly, will find it offensive if they occur now when the chance for peace is here
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[03:10] <Eluvatar> [03:09:50] (edit) Removed no permission given to post...post was from another channel)
[03:10] <Eluvatar> [03:09:58]
[03:10] <Eluvatar> [03:10:01]
[03:10] <Eluvatar> I believe this is relevant.
01[03:10] <Cisco> I will see that as a way to end a possible cease fire
01[03:11] <Cisco> and that is personal..and not in TNP's best interests
[03:11] <Eluvatar> Oh fun. Ban.
01[03:11] <Cisco> clear enough?
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01[03:12] <Cisco> Elu...if your going to post snippits...that is rather uncooth
[03:12] <Eluvatar> I believed that that was a public statement.
[03:13] <Eluvatar> Apparently I was not banned for copying it, but for simply being there now that she has decided on "full war"
01[03:13] <Cisco> right
[03:13] <flemingovia> "Oh fun. Ban" =?
01[03:13] <Cisco> u need to stop antagonizing
01[03:13] <Cisco> either let me speak to them or don't speak to them at all
[03:13] <Eluvatar> I am banned from #the_empire
06[03:13] * GMT has lived to see that happen
[03:13] <GMT> Elu antagonizing
[03:14] <Eluvatar> Oh GMT I'm quite a rabble-rouser
[03:14] <GMT> yes I know
[03:14] <GMT> >_>
[03:14] <Eluvatar> I just say one four letter word and they are up in ARM!
[03:14] <Eluvatar> and another ARM too
[03:14] <Eluvatar> so ARMS
[03:14] <GMT> heh that's because they've all got used to you being so peaceful and balanced
03[03:14] * Dali is now known as Lady_Anastasia
[03:15] <Eluvatar> Oh.
[03:15] <flemingovia> I would like to make a statement about the Empire and one of it's officers. Do I have government permission to make it?
[03:15] <Eluvatar> So if I express a negative opinion it is vitriolic.
01[03:15] <Cisco> like I said...why would u go speak to them at all...especially since u and others have already gotten on their last nerves
[03:15] <Eluvatar> flemingovia, I believe you are expected to say in private what the statement is >_>
[03:15] <flemingovia> ah. OK
[03:15] <Eluvatar> Cisco: I was in #the_empire since it was created
01[03:15] <Cisco> we are still on public record here
[03:15] <Eluvatar> They were discussing this channel in there
01[03:16] <Cisco> -end transcript-
Room is Moderated
Gov Officials are OPS
RA and citizens voiced
Visitors are devoiced
01[01:20] <Cisco> -start transcript-
01[01:20] <Cisco> [01:19] <Felasia> I guess my first question is what is your policy on the war with TEP? Diplomatic or Military?
01[01:20] <Cisco> Well, when I post my speech that will be clear
01[01:20] <Cisco> but basically
01[01:20] <Cisco> I will not be recognizing that government
01[01:20] <Cisco> the RA will decide that
01[01:21] <Cisco> I will be having negotiations with them this week
01[01:21] <Cisco> I have already set that up
01[01:21] <Cisco> point of that is to end the war
03[01:21] * Biyah has joined #thenorthpacific
03[01:21] * Retrieving #thenorthpacific modes...
01[01:21] <Cisco> now they will know off hand...that i will not repremand anyone
01[01:22] <Cisco> nor will i be making the decision on recognizing the gov
01[01:22] <Cisco> that will be up to the RA
01[01:22] <Cisco> if that does not end well...
[01:23] <Felasia> It should be take into consideration that some specific members action leads to this conflict, will you forbid RA member from working aganist TEP new government until discussion in RA is complete?
01[01:23] <Cisco> well...I cannot openly discuss our actions after that for obvious reasons
01[01:23] <Cisco> yes sir
[01:23] <Felasia> Or working aganist TEP former government too.
01[01:23] <Cisco> i see that as them threatning peace
01[01:23] <Cisco> yes
01[01:23] <Cisco> i will deal with them harshly and to the full extent of the law
01[01:23] <Cisco> i don't care if your an RA or Admin
01[01:24] <Cisco> we need peace to move forward
01[01:24] <Cisco> but if we are left with war...so be it
01[01:24] <Cisco> i'd rather not...but that is not my decision
01[01:25] <Cisco> but I will delegate promptly either way
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03[01:25] * Cisco sets mode: +o Sniffles
[01:26] <Eluvatar> Ahah.
01[01:26] <Cisco> Forensatha is RA right?
[01:26] <Eluvatar> No
01[01:26] <Cisco> ah.k
01[01:27] <Cisco> U brought up a good point earlier Fela
01[01:27] <Cisco> about moderation
03[01:27] * Biyah is now known as Lord_Rahl
03[01:27] * Dali|schoolwork is now known as Lady_Anastasia
01[01:27] <Cisco> I discussed this with the admins some time ago
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03[01:27] * ChanServ sets mode: +o Darth-Zorn
03[01:27] * Cisco sets mode: -o Darth-Zorn
01[01:28] <Cisco> first we will be adding a new admin
01[01:28] <Cisco> then ading some global mods
01[01:28] <Cisco> adding*
01[01:29] <Cisco> and after the quick elections for gov officials are over...those members will designate who they choose to be their subordinates and they will have the mod powers needed to go about governing their respective sections
01[01:29] <Cisco> now we are still under TOS rules
01[01:29] <Cisco> so violations should be treated as such by admins and global mods
01[01:29] <Cisco> with no favoritism
[01:30] <Felasia> Adding new admins is a good start, but what of the old Admin? Will action be taken aganist them if they violated the policy of the region?
01[01:30] <Cisco> a new Moderation section will be up
01[01:30] <Cisco> not only for masking requests...but for violations as well
01[01:30] <Cisco> the moderation is not up for discussion in regards to tos
01[01:30] <Cisco> we have been under tos for over 5 years already
01[01:31] <Cisco> i believe we have talked that to death and know how to distinguish between violations
01[01:31] <Cisco> "violated" no...unless u bring it to the ra and they decide otherwise
[01:32] <Eluvatar> I am alarmed.
01[01:32] <Cisco> u are speaking about the past...not under my policy
[01:32] <Eluvatar> Under my administration, our policy has been that we have recognized that a war was declared upon us by Gatesville and the Empire.
[01:33] <Felasia> Example would be what I suggest before about no action taken aganist the Empire until the negotiation is concluded. Will there be action aganist admin if they covertly or publically attack The Empire?
[01:33] <Eluvatar> The idea of taking action against members of the region who acted in coordination with our regional policy after it changes because their actions then are inconsistent with the new policy strikes me as very strange,
[01:33] <Eluvatar> or did I misunderstand your question?
01[01:33] <Cisco> well...that is something I am discussing and that is a very good question
[01:34] <Felasia> My point is that after Tresville become delegate, he is going to start negotiation with the Empire. And I believe that we should not act aggressively aganist neither the Empire or Confederate until the RA have decided the position of the region.
01[01:35] <Cisco> yes fela
01[01:35] <Cisco> first i will make sure that i can take action if people violate
01[01:35] <Cisco> i already know what they will say
01[01:35] <Cisco> they are acting not as gov officials but as individuals
01[01:36] <Cisco> fine..then I will ask them to remove themselves if they want to continue to act against the empire during negotiations
01[01:37] <Cisco> if they don't...i will be seeking a decision by either the RA or court to make sure they can be quickly prosecuted if they act against peace during the talks
[01:37] <Eluvatar> Why should we not act against the Empire before negotiations are concluded?
[01:37] <Felasia> Ehh, I don't no either, but it's sound like a good start to established peace.
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01[01:38] <Cisco> because it is threatning peace
[01:38] <Eluvatar> We are at war.
[01:38] <Eluvatar> What peace is there to threaten?
01[01:38] <Cisco> u mean u believe we can have no peace?
01[01:38] <Cisco> are u serious?
[01:39] <Eluvatar> No.
[01:39] <Eluvatar> I mean that at this time there is not peace.
01[01:39] <Cisco> ah...ok
[01:39] <Eluvatar> For all we know, the Empire is busy sending in agents to destabilize and seize control over our region.
01[01:39] <Cisco> ok. So what do u suggest...a cease fire until discussions end?
[01:40] <Eluvatar> If the our region and Empire agrees to some sort of cease fire, then it would be justified to ask North Pacific members not to pursue actions against the Empire.
[01:40] <Eluvatar> Unless that happens I see no reason to.
01[01:40] <Cisco> I understand.
01[01:40] <Cisco> would anyone here object to LR being voiced for a moment to speak?
[01:41] <Eluvatar> I would prefer removing moderation
[01:41] <Eluvatar> but that is my own unimportant preference.
[01:41] <Felasia> I agree with Elu.
01[01:41] <Cisco> well brother...its our room..not mine...vote to remove it in general from all meetings and we will remove it
[01:42] <Eluvatar> I mean in this instance, not necessarily this meeting.
[01:42] <Eluvatar> *all meetings
01[01:42] <Cisco> ok. anyone else?
01[01:42] <Cisco> I will be voicing LR
01[01:42] <Cisco> going once
01[01:42] <Cisco> going twice
01[01:42] <Cisco> sold to the lady with the pink bag
03[01:43] * Cisco sets mode: +v Lord_Rahl
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[01:43] <Lord_Rahl> First: There are TNP operatives actively working against TEP, as we have in TNP. We have always done exactly what we said we would do. If there are to be talks, we will halt our attacks. If anyone from TNP acts against us during that time, it will be an immediate end to the talks.
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[01:43] <Lord_Rahl> Second: Lady Anastasia has not officially been approached for -any- talks.
03[01:43] * Cisco sets mode: +v Blue_Wolf
01[01:44] <Cisco> yes. Only because I have not officially been delegate till a few hours ago
01[01:44] <Cisco> that was actually my next order of business
[01:44] <Lord_Rahl> Third: We do not recognize 'acting as an individual' as a defense. If flem, khark or elu continue to work for the Confederacy, we will consider it an act of war and there will be no talks.
06[01:44] * Lord_Rahl confers with the Empress and Grand Duchess for a moment
01[01:44] <Cisco> and u speak for The Empire in whole correct?
[01:45] <Lord_Rahl> I do.
01[01:45] <Cisco> good
01[01:45] <Cisco> just didn't want any complications.
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01[01:46] <Cisco> So, when i get assurances that our members will not act if we have a cease fire...we can officially negotiate correct?
[01:47] <Lord_Rahl> We can. But we have to see proof that TNP has laid down that law. If it is broken, and the transgressors are not given more then a light slap on the wrist, we will continue the war with no hope for future peaceful resolution.
03[01:47] * Neebug is now known as Lady_Phedre
[01:48] <Sniffles> well just what kind of punishment do you want? ejection?
[01:48] <Lord_Rahl> We would remove said individuals from government, if they went against what our government decided.
[01:48] <Lord_Rahl> I would expect nothing less.
01[01:48] <Cisco> That is understandable LR. And i will not approach u for a cease fire until then.
[01:48] <Eluvatar> I see.
01[01:49] <Cisco> well...keep in mind that...so far..only the CLO, Delegate and VD are the gov
[01:49] <Lord_Rahl> Let me be frank.
[01:49] <Eluvatar> Lord_Rahl, may I mention the terms you previously stated as the only possible terms for peace?
[01:49] <Eluvatar> Or rather, may I describe them?
[01:49] <Lord_Rahl> We are at war. We know what the intentions of the Empire are. If we're going to speak, then all activities against us will stop while we talk. I make no promises as to the end result.
01[01:49] <Cisco> u mean prior to this discussion Elu?
[01:50] <Lord_Rahl> We don't care if TNP enters talks or not, so we are going to be very strict as to our necessary pre-requisites.
[01:50] <Eluvatar> Yes.
01[01:50] <Cisco> I don't see why that matters Elu
01[01:50] <Cisco> they have the right to change their mind
[01:50] <Lord_Rahl> How about I describe them for you: We said TNP had to join the Empire.
01[01:50] <Cisco> plus this is a new cabinet
[01:50] <Eluvatar> Thank you Lord Rahl.
[01:50] <Lord_Rahl> Our demands now are not known.
[01:51] <Lord_Rahl> These are our prerequisites for a talk, only.
01[01:51] <Cisco> it's good to be clear
[01:51] <Eluvatar> Do you have the authority to, in that case, also have Gatesville, The New Inquisition, and company recognize a cease fire?
[01:51] <Lord_Rahl> Our demands for the cessation of war are not known to you at this time.
[01:52] <Eluvatar> Your current ones, assuming they are different, are unknown. Yes.
[01:52] <Lord_Rahl> And yes, we can process a general cease-fire, for good reason.
01[01:52] <Cisco> I think we understand each other so far LR. Anything else...we just had someone booted!
[01:54] <Lord_Rahl> The Empire has no other concerns at the moment.
01[01:55] <Cisco> cool. Talk to u in a few then.
01[01:56] <Cisco> and thanks
03[01:56] * Cisco sets mode: -v Lord_Rahl
01[01:57] <Cisco> Tormin was just booted guys
01[01:57] <Cisco> from TNP obviously
01[01:59] <Cisco> ok...anyway...any other questions?
01[01:59] <Cisco> suggestions?
01[01:59] <Cisco> i will be requesting that the forum structure be rearranged
[01:59] <Felasia> How many ministries do you intend to established?
[01:59] <Eluvatar> What kind of rearrangement do you intend to request?
01[01:59] <Cisco> and will be changing how a few ministries work
01[02:00] <Cisco> at the moment I will be keeping the ones we already have
01[02:00] <Cisco> but adding things to them
01[02:00] <Cisco> for example
01[02:00] <Cisco> I will create a more open intel agency
01[02:00] <Cisco> which will go under Defense
[02:01] <Eluvatar> How open is more open?
01[02:01] <Cisco> The ISA
01[02:01] <Cisco> Intel and Security Agency
[02:01] <Eluvatar> I see
01[02:01] <Cisco> i mean..open to anyone with RA status..or citizen status
01[02:02] <Cisco> the citizen status will be discussed soon
[02:02] <Eluvatar> Do you believe that if a war were to continue, Gatesville and the Empire would be able to take the Delegacy from you?
[02:03] <Blue_Wolf> Is Gatesville and the empire one in the same?
01[02:03] <Cisco> nope
01[02:03] <Cisco> wait
[02:03] <Eluvatar> Why have we taken a format where everybody but Cisco asks questions and he is pushed into answering them?
01[02:03] <Cisco> that was to the second part
01[02:03] <Cisco> lol
[02:04] <Blue_Wolf> Then where is Gatesville on this one?
[02:04] <Eluvatar> Why am I asking questions about why I am asking questions?
01[02:04] <Cisco> <Eluvatar> Do you believe that if a war were to continue, Gatesville and the Empire would be able to take the Delegacy from you?
01[02:04] <Cisco> Unlikely, but this is NS
[02:04] <Eluvatar> Why am I asking questions about why I am asking questions
about my questioning? ... wait, scratch that.
01[02:04] <Cisco> nothing is certain
[02:04] <Felasia> Becasue Cisco didn't ask anything?
01[02:04] <Cisco> I mean...Kandarin was unseated before
01[02:04] <Cisco> I asked a lot
01[02:05] <Cisco> mainly for questions...lol
[02:05] <Eluvatar> Does Kandarin have access to the Ban button?
[02:05] <Eluvatar>
[02:05] <Eluvatar> That was rhetorical >_>
[02:05] <Eluvatar> my apologies
[02:05] <falconias> lol
01[02:05] <Cisco> <Blue_Wolf> Then where is Gatesville on this one?
01[02:05] <Cisco> From my understanding...they are backing The Empire...but they are not The Empire
[02:06] <Eluvatar> I agree with Cisco's assessment.
01[02:06] <Cisco> Gatesvilleis and always shall be working in their best interests
[02:06] <Blue_Wolf> @ Cisco, so this is just an agreement with the Empire?
[02:06] <Blue_Wolf> Not Gatesville?
[02:06] <Sniffles> what's this about tnp joining the empire?
[02:06] <Eluvatar> Blue_Wolf, I have noticed that the Empire's delegate consistently votes with Gatesville, so that may be the whole point from their perspective.
01[02:07] <Cisco> I will also speak to them
[02:07] <Eluvatar> Sniffles, Lord Rahl stated that as the single and irrevocable condition for peace some time ago.
01[02:07] <Cisco> I actually have had more discussions with gatesville than anyone else
[02:07] <Eluvatar> Cisco is right on that.
01[02:07] <Cisco> [02:06] <Blue_Wolf> @ Cisco, so this is just an agreement with the Empire?
01[02:08] <Cisco> We just discussed prerequisites for a cease fire
01[02:08] <Cisco> thats all
[02:08] <Blue_Wolf> Spooky
01[02:08] <Cisco> is it?
01[02:08] <Cisco> don't be scurred
01[02:09] <Cisco> Oh, BW...i need an Invader advocate
[02:09] <Blue_Wolf> Really now?
01[02:09] <Cisco> not this minute
01[02:09] <Cisco> but sooner than later
[02:09] <Blue_Wolf> Oh sure, bate me with it why don't you
[02:09] <Eluvatar> What does an Invader Advocate do?
01[02:09] <Cisco> talks to invaders
06[02:09] * falconias is also present for military representation...
01[02:10] <Cisco> i am looking to level out the playing field once and for all
01[02:10] <Cisco> before we have ben rather...Gray as u say
01[02:10] <Cisco> been*
[02:10] <Blue_Wolf> I accept
[02:10] <Blue_Wolf>
[02:10] <Eluvatar> Do you not believe in Grey?
[02:10] <falconias> so are you suggesting that the TNP ally with raiders and counter-attack against The Empire?
01[02:10] <Cisco> i want to make us officially neutral
[02:10] <Eluvatar> Ah.
[02:10] <Eluvatar> Does Neutral mean both or neither?
01[02:10] <Cisco> Let me explain Falconias
[02:10] <falconias> ok
06[02:11] * Eluvatar waits
01[02:11] <Cisco> plain and simple...we are a feeder...we represent NS
01[02:11] <Cisco> that means Defenders and invaders
01[02:11] <Cisco> they are both welcome
01[02:11] <Cisco> I hope to make the NPA a standing army only
01[02:11] <Cisco> They act in our best interest
01[02:11] <Cisco> and I will be making that rather fun
01[02:11] <Cisco> for example...
01[02:12] <Cisco> RMB violaters
01[02:12] <Cisco> the new scum of NS!!
01[02:12] <Cisco> I have a plan for them
01[02:12] <Cisco> i wont tip my hand yet
01[02:12] <Cisco> but i will be having talks with all feeders on that one
01[02:12] <Cisco> have already begun preliminary discussions
01[02:13] <Cisco> We need to lay some ground rules in regards to defenders and invaders in TNP
01[02:13] <Cisco> Bith do things that we all deem as wrong
01[02:13] <Cisco> forum crashing
01[02:14] <Cisco> OOC attacks
01[02:14] <Cisco> etc
01[02:14] <Cisco> so we need to make sure that invaders and defenders that we become friendly with...ara good crop...worthy of being represented in a feeder
[02:14] <Eluvatar> Under the COPS treaty, we have obligations about forum crashing.
01[02:14] <Cisco> that is not my decision by the way
01[02:15] <Cisco> yes Elu
[02:15] <Blue_Wolf> Cisco, are all your plans copies from what other feeders have done? Or new an improved?
01[02:15] <Cisco> totally different
[02:15] <Blue_Wolf> O R:Y?
01[02:15] <Cisco> i will not be picking on regions
01[02:15] <Cisco> very different
[02:16] <Eluvatar> So your plan that you will not state does not consist of invading regions who violate our RMB rules?
01[02:16] <Cisco> TWP defended its board by raiding
01[02:16] <Cisco> i will not suggest that
01[02:16] <Cisco> nor am i
01[02:16] <Cisco> i have to be ...careful and not reveal those plans
01[02:16] <Cisco> so forgive me for not explaining more
[02:17] <Eluvatar> You are forgiven
01[02:17] <Cisco> i just don't want things trumped before they even begin
01[02:17] <Cisco> i prefer mention...act and then discuss
01[02:17] <Cisco> rather than discuss things to death and do nothing
01[02:18] <Cisco> I will be bringing that up as a side note if the Talks with TEP go well
[02:18] <Eluvatar> I have a question.
01[02:18] <Cisco> shoot
[02:19] <Eluvatar> What is regional sovereignty?
[02:19] <Eluvatar> More specifically,
[02:19] <Eluvatar> what regional sovereignty does or should TNP claim for itself as inalienable?
01[02:19] <Cisco> in game or off site
01[02:19] <Cisco> makes a difference
01[02:20] <Cisco> u mean their are different regional sovereingties to claim?
[02:20] <Eluvatar> Both
01[02:20] <Cisco> i thought sovereignty was rather...one general thing
[02:21] <Eluvatar> What freedom of action is TNP's basic sovereignty
01[02:21] <Cisco> in regards to what specifically...war on Spammers and how we will act?
01[02:22] <Cisco> or how we will act in a war like we are currently in?
[02:23] <Eluvatar> I meant foreign policy overall, but I was concerned with the latter case
01[02:23] <Cisco> chess not checkers brother. I will not reveal until the time is necessary what our actions will or might be.
01[02:24] <Cisco> The RA will determine policy
[02:24] <Eluvatar> Specifically, I would like to ask if you could list some rights of TNP as a region in the categories of inalienable, negotiable, and absent.
[02:24] <Eluvatar> As a matter of theory.
01[02:24] <Cisco> I will decide on a course of action unless otherwise told by the RA
[02:25] <Eluvatar> So you do not accept my theoretical framework of the existence of sovereign rights?
01[02:25] <Cisco> we have the right to govern our region, protect it, and act in its best interests
[02:25] <Eluvatar> Alright, now we are getting somewhere.
[02:25] <Eluvatar> Would you say that TNP has a right to run its own government without outside interventions?
01[02:26] <Cisco> Umm...yeah...hello. U forget that this was my policy for years...u forget the ADN, Twoslits "old Boys Club" which is the real one
01[02:27] <Cisco> I need to search for a Sydia quote that applies...1 sec
[02:27] <Blue_Wolf> I...remember those days... V_V
[02:27] <falconias> ugh, ADN...
01[02:27] <Cisco> (edit: need permission to post quote from Sydia)
01[02:27] <Cisco>
01[02:28] <Cisco> Quoting Sydia
[02:28] <Eluvatar> Okay.
01[02:28] <Cisco> I actually can't post that unless he gives me permission..so that will not be posted until he does
[02:28] <Eluvatar> What, besides the operation of our government itself, should be considered internal matters?
01[02:28] <Cisco> but I see where your going with that Elu
01[02:29] <Cisco> I'll get to that....but u think so far...that The Empire is trying or has been...influenceing us?
01[02:29] <Cisco> Spell check
[02:29] <Blue_Wolf> CHECK!
[02:29] <Eluvatar> It is the stated goal of the Empire to overthrow our government and replace it with one that flies their flag.
03[02:29] * Lord_Rahl is now known as Biyah
[02:29] <Eluvatar> If they choose to limit their goals, I would be quite happy with that.
01[02:30] <Cisco> ok. after war was already declared correct?
01[02:30] <Cisco> that was said?
[02:30] <Eluvatar> Yes, although they made noises that indicated such interest from the start.
[02:30] <Eluvatar> Lord Rahl has insisted that those noises were badly misunderstood, of course.
[02:30] <Eluvatar> What, in general, is in the interests of a feeder region such as The North Pacific?
01[02:30] <Cisco> indication...that can be interpreted
[02:31] <Eluvatar> I meant the post "The Empire Comes"
01[02:31] <Cisco> I know LR. once u offend...he will seek to not only kill but also turn your bones to dust
[02:31] <Eluvatar> And he takes no interest in avoiding offense it seems.
01[02:32] <Cisco> but he can also be reasonable if u approach him properly
[02:32] <Eluvatar> I may be wrong in my assessment of course, or biased.
01[02:32] <Cisco> and i believe that was a problem
[02:32] <Eluvatar> http://z13.invisionfree.invalid/TNP/index.php?showtopic=4633
03[02:32] * Lady_Anastasia is now known as Dali
01[02:33] <Cisco> What, in general, is in the interests of a feeder region such as The North Pacific?
06[02:33] * Eluvatar listens
01[02:34] <Cisco> First, our best interests should be the members in our region..their happiness. Which we have to keep in mind...most...dont care
01[02:34] <Cisco> this is a game
01[02:34] <Cisco> they play for their reasons
01[02:34] <Cisco> so our next concern are those that do care
[02:35] <falconias> those that do care vote in the RA
01[02:35] <Cisco> and that is where the RMB and offsite board community blend
01[02:35] <Cisco> not exactly Falc
01[02:35] <Cisco> because we have people that when I speak to them...they are generally concerned and act in our best interest
01[02:36] <Cisco> and these people have yet to come to the forum
[02:36] <falconias> no
01[02:36] <Cisco> or have posted 5 times in 5 years
[02:36] <falconias> you misinterpreted me slightly
01[02:36] <Cisco> but they post in the RMB..unendorse dictators and more
01[02:36] <Cisco> oh, sorry
[02:36] <falconias> i was just saying that it would probably be a safe bet to say that those who do vote in the RA care about the region
01[02:36] <Cisco> nope
[02:37] <falconias> I agree that there are plenty of nations who probably care about the region but don't want to be caught up in the political affairs
[02:37] <falconias> no?
01[02:37] <Cisco> u have to remember that the RA is open
[02:37] <falconias> that is true
01[02:37] <Cisco> we have members there that vote in their best interests
[02:37] <falconias> but why would you vote if you dont care?
01[02:37] <Cisco> it happens
[02:37] <falconias> of course
01[02:37] <Cisco> their best interests
[02:37] <falconias> yes
[02:37] <falconias> federal voters in RL
[02:37] <falconias> do they vote in their best interests or the country's best interests?
01[02:37] <Cisco> but I want to work with the SPeaker...if he isn't upset at me
01[02:37] <Cisco> to reform the RA
[02:38] <falconias> i would be inclined to argue that a lot of voters would vote for whats best for them
01[02:38] <Cisco> I do not want to lehislate though
01[02:38] <Cisco> I want to urge that the RA...legislate...where needed
03[02:38] * GMT has joined #thenorthpacific
[02:38] <Eluvatar> Ahah
[02:38] <Eluvatar> I have been known to write legislation
01[02:38] <Cisco> yes but...what is goos for the goose is good for the gander only applies when its the same Gander
01[02:39] <Cisco> in other words...the Duality proble,
[02:39] <falconias> care to explain?
[02:39] <falconias> ah.
01[02:39] <Cisco> Problem*
[02:39] <Eluvatar> What's good for General Motors ain't necessarily good for TNP?
[02:39] <Eluvatar>
01[02:39] <Cisco> we have RA members that hold citizenship elsewhere
[02:39] <Eluvatar> I do.
[02:39] <Eluvatar> I am a Citizen of Taijitu.
01[02:39] <Cisco> some we can trust that they will keep those seperate
01[02:39] <Cisco> others we can't trust
[02:39] <falconias> obviously
01[02:39] <Cisco> and it is easy to spot those if u read up
01[02:40] <Cisco> find out about them
01[02:40] <Cisco> their pat
01[02:40] <Cisco> their posts
01[02:40] <Cisco> and make your own decision on their character
[02:40] <falconias> such as?
01[02:40] <Cisco> past*
[02:40] <falconias> if i dare ask
[02:40] <Eluvatar> Hm.
03[02:40] * falconias is now known as Falconias
01[02:40] <Cisco> u dare...I may not answer though
01[02:40] <Cisco> lol
[02:40] <Eluvatar> So you have stated that the interests of a feeder lie in the happiness of its nations
[02:40] <Falconias> lol fair enough didnt really expect an answer
[02:40] <Eluvatar> am I understanding you right?
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01[02:41] <Cisco> yes...mainly on those who care that u govern them
[02:41] <Blue_Wolf> Ask the damn question >_<
01[02:41] <Cisco> ask...u never know
[02:41] <Falconias> i did ask BW
06[02:41] * Blue_Wolf scrolls up
01[02:41] <Cisco> [02:40] <falconias> such as?
01[02:41] <Cisco> missed that
[02:41] <Eluvatar> [02:40:30] <@Eluvatar> am I understanding you right?
01[02:42] <Cisco> 1 sec
03[02:42] * Eluvatar sets mode: +v GMT
01[02:43] <Cisco> U want to know who in my opinion. I am delegate now...i have enough enemies that follow me around and people that dislike me. I'd rather be responsible, refrain from answering so that I don't have people up their attacks.
[02:43] <Eluvatar> <explanation> According to the roll of RA members that I see, PoD Gunner is an RA member. </explanation>
01[02:43] <Cisco> [02:40] <Eluvatar> am I understanding you right?
01[02:43] <Cisco> [02:40] * MontanaMax has joined #thenorthpacific
01[02:43] <Cisco> [02:41] <Cisco> yes...mainly on those who care that u govern them
[02:43] <Eluvatar> ah
[02:43] <Eluvatar> I must be tired.
01[02:43] <Cisco> yes..thats GMT right
01[02:44] <Cisco> Falc...I encourage u to point them out when u see them though
[02:44] <Eluvatar> So far you have stated that TNP's regional sovereignty includes the right to its own government and the right to pursue its interests which lie in the happiness of its people?
01[02:45] <Cisco> point out that they are not helping...but rather being negative and counter productive
01[02:46] <Cisco> that should be a statement not a question. but the people should come before the government there
01[02:46] <Cisco> u can't have one...nor would it have power with out them
01[02:46] <Cisco> though in NS...some people would argue about me on that one
[02:46] <Eluvatar> okay.
01[02:46] <Cisco> with me*
[02:46] <Eluvatar> Two follow-up questions:
[02:47] <Falconias> CiscoFalc...I encourage u to point them out when u see them though
[02:47] <Falconias> hmm?
[02:47] <Falconias> who?
[02:47] <Falconias> suspicious members of the RA?
01[02:47] <Cisco> People say democracy in NS doesn't work. but I believe the strive for it is important and defines us as a community
[02:47] <Eluvatar> 1. What is the realm of action for TNP's government? What in-game actions does it govern? What forum actions?
[02:47] <Eluvatar> 2. What do you think the people want?
01[02:47] <Cisco> members in gereral who obviously have their best interests or the interests of other regions in mind when they are posting or voting
[02:47] <Eluvatar> And I will finish my Quisition for the night.
03[02:48] * flemingovia has joined #thenorthpacific
03[02:48] * ChanServ sets mode: +o flemingovia
01[02:48] <Cisco> realm of action....the RA dictates that in TNP.
[02:48] <Felasia> <+falconias> ugh, ADN... <= Ugh, FRA.... sorry couldn't resist. XD
[02:48] <Falconias> ugh equilism...
01[02:49] <Cisco> in game
[02:49] <flemingovia> morning
01[02:49] <Cisco> forum actions...anything outside of TOS
01[02:49] <Cisco> Which I hope to get rid of in a few months
01[02:50] <Cisco> dont ask cause i wont tell!!
01[02:50] <Cisco> lol
[02:50] <Falconias> morning??
06[02:50] * Falconias looks at time
[02:50] <Falconias> shit son I should be going to bed ?
01[02:50] <Cisco> nite
01[02:50] <Cisco> i need a cigg
01[02:50] <Cisco> brb
01[02:51] <Cisco> u can continue to talk
01[02:51] <Cisco> or should we pasue the transcript?
01[02:51] <Cisco> Pause
[02:51] <Falconias> im still here
[02:51] <Falconias> my roommates are too loud
[02:52] <flemingovia> So what have I missed?
[02:52] <Eluvatar> ALot
[02:52] <Blue_Wolf> tons
[02:53] <Eluvatar> dum de dum
01[02:54] <Cisco> if no ones else wants to discuss Gov stuff...we can end the transcript and talk in #tnp
01[02:54] <Cisco> I will post this in a few after that
01[02:54] <Cisco> in the forum
[02:54] <Falconias> wait
[02:54] <Falconias> since when were we talking about Gov?
[02:55] <Falconias> oh government
[02:55] <Falconias> haha, lol
[02:55] <Eluvatar> Are you going to answer the rest of my last 2 questions?
01[02:56] <Cisco> oh, sorry
01[02:56] <Cisco> I think they want peace, a viable government that gives them the chance to be represented
01[02:56] <Cisco> others just want to anwer their issues and not be bothered
01[02:56] <Cisco> answer
01[02:58] <Cisco> Honestly, people talk a lot of crap about the "Old Guard" but those same people were given the right to speak, protest, vote and interact byeveryone they call "Old Guard"
01[02:59] <Cisco> it is a shame that loyal and true patriots are personified in a way that skews their real interests
01[02:59] <Cisco> and intentions
[03:00] <Falconias> i say lets just let BW run everythig
[03:00] <Falconias>
[03:00] <Falconias> *everything
01[03:00] <Cisco> he already does
01[03:00] <Cisco> ooops
[03:00] <Eluvatar> That's a great plan Falconias. Where's the dotted line to sign?
01[03:00] <Cisco> is that on record
[03:00] <Eluvatar> Yes
01[03:00] <Cisco> whoops
01[03:00] <Cisco> lol
[03:00] <Eluvatar> Because we are being so sincere, right now.
[03:01] <Falconias> dotted line?
[03:01] <Falconias> _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
[03:01] <Falconias> sign there
[03:01] <Falconias> and you have control of TNP for life
[03:01] <Eluvatar>
[03:01] <Eluvatar> I thought that was for Blue Wolf having control though...
[03:01] <Falconias> fine print: you are also my sexual slave for the next 30 years or so and must obey my every command
[03:01] <Falconias> *cough* you read nothing
[03:02] <Falconias> just sign on the dotted line please!
[03:02] <Eluvatar> O_O
[03:02] <Eluvatar> No
[03:02] <Falconias>
[03:02] <Falconias> damn
[03:03] <flemingovia> hmmm.
[03:03] <Eluvatar> Felasia, are you available for a word?
[03:03] <flemingovia> I have seen the log of this conversation, and would like to add something?
[03:03] <Falconias> word
[03:03] <Eluvatar> Not Falconias XD
03[03:03] * Falconias is now known as Fel
[03:03] <Fel> word
[03:03] <Eluvatar> No
03[03:03] * Fel is now known as Falconias
[03:03] <Eluvatar> Don't make me devoice you
[03:03] <Eluvatar> >_>
[03:03] <Falconias>
[03:03] <Eluvatar> flem?
[03:04] <Falconias> fine fine
[03:04] <flemingovia> yes?
[03:04] <Falconias> flemingoviaI have seen the log of this conversation, and would like to add something?
[03:04] <flemingovia> yes
[03:04] <Falconias> which is?
[03:05] <flemingovia> I would like to point out that I have two positions in this.
[03:05] <Eluvatar> I believe you are free to speak.
02[03:05] * Blue_Wolf has quit IRC (Quit: Bye all)
[03:05] <flemingovia> Not only am I a member of TNP, but also of the East Pacific, elected war chief of TEP.
[03:05] <Eluvatar> On the record.
[03:06] <Falconias> o_O
[03:06] <flemingovia> I would trust that my actions as war chief would not bring me under prosecution in TNP. THat would be absurd.
[03:06] <Eluvatar> Cisco: are you willing to respond to that statement at this time?
[03:06] <flemingovia> I have told CiscO that I will not be using z13 or the TNP RMB for any actions without government permission.
[03:06] <flemingovia> and that I intend to stick to.
[03:07] <flemingovia> But I will not countenance TNP interference in z1, the TEP forum, or its government.
01[03:07] <Cisco> I thought I answered that a few times
01[03:07] <Cisco> but on record
[03:07] <Eluvatar> As a point of evidence, I as Delegate have authorized confrontation with the Empire, my personal authority having just expired.
01[03:08] <Cisco> and i ahve already said this a few times to the leadres of TEP currently
01[03:08] <Cisco> I will not repremand anyone from the past administration for their in War actions
01[03:08] <Cisco> nor will I dictate our foreign policy
[03:09] <Falconias> alright champs
[03:09] <Falconias> I'm out for the night
01[03:09] <Cisco> the RA will decide whether or not to recognize that gov
[03:09] <flemingovia> I jsut wanted to make it clear so that members of the Empire do not cry foul if actions are taken on z1 or the TEP RMB.
[03:09] <flemingovia> or by me as a player on behalf of the TEP government.
01[03:10] <Cisco> I will cry foul if thise actions are done if we reach a cease fire
01[03:10] <Cisco> and frankly, will find it offensive if they occur now when the chance for peace is here
03[03:10] * Biyah has left #thenorthpacific
[03:10] <Eluvatar> [03:09:50] (edit) Removed no permission given to post...post was from another channel)
[03:10] <Eluvatar> [03:09:58]
[03:10] <Eluvatar> [03:10:01]
[03:10] <Eluvatar> I believe this is relevant.
01[03:10] <Cisco> I will see that as a way to end a possible cease fire
01[03:11] <Cisco> and that is personal..and not in TNP's best interests
[03:11] <Eluvatar> Oh fun. Ban.
01[03:11] <Cisco> clear enough?
03[03:11] * Lady_Phedre has left #thenorthpacific
01[03:12] <Cisco> Elu...if your going to post snippits...that is rather uncooth
[03:12] <Eluvatar> I believed that that was a public statement.
[03:13] <Eluvatar> Apparently I was not banned for copying it, but for simply being there now that she has decided on "full war"
01[03:13] <Cisco> right
[03:13] <flemingovia> "Oh fun. Ban" =?
01[03:13] <Cisco> u need to stop antagonizing
01[03:13] <Cisco> either let me speak to them or don't speak to them at all
[03:13] <Eluvatar> I am banned from #the_empire
06[03:13] * GMT has lived to see that happen
[03:13] <GMT> Elu antagonizing
[03:14] <Eluvatar> Oh GMT I'm quite a rabble-rouser
[03:14] <GMT> yes I know
[03:14] <GMT> >_>
[03:14] <Eluvatar> I just say one four letter word and they are up in ARM!
[03:14] <Eluvatar> and another ARM too
[03:14] <Eluvatar> so ARMS
[03:14] <GMT> heh that's because they've all got used to you being so peaceful and balanced
03[03:14] * Dali is now known as Lady_Anastasia
[03:15] <Eluvatar> Oh.
[03:15] <flemingovia> I would like to make a statement about the Empire and one of it's officers. Do I have government permission to make it?
[03:15] <Eluvatar> So if I express a negative opinion it is vitriolic.
01[03:15] <Cisco> like I said...why would u go speak to them at all...especially since u and others have already gotten on their last nerves
[03:15] <Eluvatar> flemingovia, I believe you are expected to say in private what the statement is >_>
[03:15] <flemingovia> ah. OK
[03:15] <Eluvatar> Cisco: I was in #the_empire since it was created
01[03:15] <Cisco> we are still on public record here
[03:15] <Eluvatar> They were discussing this channel in there
01[03:16] <Cisco> -end transcript-