May 2008 Election Results

The Voting Booth

The Voting Booth

TNPer
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Here are the May 2008 Election Results:

Total Ballots: 30
Total Valid Ballots: 29
Total Invalid Ballots: 1

Delegate:
Eluvatar: 13 (44.83%)
Ermarian: 7 (24.14%)
Missing Dog Head: 3 (10.34%)
Romanoffia: 3 (10.34%)
Abstain: 3 (10.34%)

By the Constitution, as there was no majority between the candidates, a Runoff Election will be held soon between Eluvatar and Ermarian

Vice Delegate:
Great Bights Mum: 28 (96.55%)
Abstain: 1 (3.45%)

Congratulations to the new Vice Delegate, Great Bights Mum!

Speaker of the Regional Assembly:
mr_sniffles: 24 (82.76%)
Abstain: 5 (17.24%)

Congratulations to the new Speaker of The North Pacific Regional Assembly, mr_sniffles!

Council of Lower Officers:
FALCONKATS: 25
Kharkistania: 17
Southwest Asia: 15
Grimalkin aka Agamemnon Mustang: 14
Felasia: 7
Abstain: 4

Congratulations to the new Members of the Council of Lower Officials, FALCONKATS, Kharkistania, and Southwest Asia!

:ADN:
 
Mr. Election Commissioner, I belief that thou hast forgotten to invalidate one other ballot, in that cast, although not for the same reasons.

The ballot posted HERE by red back should also be invalidated as it was posted after the deadline that thou assigned to the vote.
 
He was off by a few minutes. I don't see any problem with him voting in such a small timeframe. If he voted say 15 minutes or so later, then his vote would not be counted.
 
However according to thy first post, the vote ended at 0000 GMT May 28, which would be 8pm EDT May 27. Red back's vote was over a day late.
 
The vote was to end at midnight the night of 28 May, which mean timewise that it would be already 29 May. His vote was off by 5 minutes.

May 29 2008, 12:05 AM
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Prior to that I stated at 2321 GMT that the vote was ending in 40 minutes....
 
Except that May 28 0000GMT indicates the beginning of May 28, not the end of May 28. If thou wished to say the night of May 28, then thou would have used May 28 2400 GMT.

By thine own deadline, red back's ballot was late.

EDIT:

Indeed thou did, which only shows that thou extended the deadline by a full day illegally.
 
Grimalkin:
Except that May 28 0000GMT indicates the beginning of May 28, not the end of May 28. If thou wished to say the night of May 28, then thou would have used May 28 2400 GMT.

By thine own deadline, red back's ballot was late.

EDIT:

Indeed thou did, which only shows that thou extended the deadline by a full day illegally.
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No I did not, and I suggest you do not libellously accuse someone of something when I clearly stated something that was obvious.

So, I warn you, watch your tone.

The vote was 5 minutes late, not a full day. Grosseschnauzer verified the results, and I did not see anything wrong with a vote 5 minutes late.

Now, instead of insulting an official and launching accusations, i suggest you deal with this in a civil, respectful manner

Does anyone else haev an issue with the vote of red back submitting his vote five minutes late?
 
I have been civil, but I cannot simply ignore such an obvious inconsistency in thy method. Given thine less than pleasant history with me, I cannot help but wonder if that is motivating thee.

No matter which way thou viewest the deadline, his vote was late, and thou stated that no late ballot would be accepted.

Can we no longer take thee at your word, Commissioner?
 
Grimalkin:
I have been civil, but I cannot simply ignore such an obvious inconsistency in thy method. Given thine less than pleasant history with me, I cannot help but wonder if that is motivating thee.

No matter which way thou viewest the deadline, his vote was late, and thou stated that no late ballot would be accepted.

Can we no longer take thee at your word, Commissioner?
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I am acting as The Election Commissioner, and nothing else.

I will consult with mr_sniffles and Grosse on this.

Please stop the character assassination. This has nothing to do with Govindia's opinion of you.
 
Furthermore, when I said midnight on 28 May, I meant the evening, and hence red back's vote was five minutes late. It was not a day late.

I do not see what your purpose is in defamiing me when I am doing my job and attempting to be civil and professional in this manner.
 
Furthermore, thou did not say "midnight on 28 May," thou said "28 May 0000 GMT." What thou didst mean is irrelevant as thou clearly stated the beginning of 28 May. If thou had meant the evening of 28 May, thou wouldst have used "28 May 2400 GMT." They are not interchangeable as thou wouldst have us believe. Hence, red back's vote was a day late.

Rest assured, I will be seeking Election Fraud charges against thee should this not be rectified.
 
Congratulations to all elected officials. Voting in the Runoff election will begin tomorrow.

Red back's vote was 5 minutes late, but there's no harm in that, and his vote was not a day late. There was clear time to protest when I already posted in that thread. Those who lost, good job in the election, hope you try next time.

The votes are officially certified. My decision as Election Commissioner is final. :)
 
Election Commissioner:
There was clear time to protest when I already posted in that thread.
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Thou must pardon me for believing that thou wouldst be a competent commissioner.

I will be seeking charges of Election Fraud against thee, Mr. Commissioner.
 
If I had closed 24 hours earlier, people would have been complaining that they were disenfranchised because polls were closed too early.

The vote ended fair and square. Red back's vote was off by five minutes. Pure and simple. No one else seems opposed to the results. :ADN:
 
As much as I would rather not be involved, I'm afraid that I will have to disagree with Govindia's statement that "no one else seems opposed to the results" by expressing my own concern to this manner.
 
Personally, I'm not much of a fan of such fine, precise deadlines as the one involved in this case, but if there is such a deadline then it should be adhered to. The line has to be drawn somewhere, regardless of how little people missed it by.
 
I must agree with both Dali and Grimalkin here. The rule is set by yourself and you can't change it to favour any candidates. Red Back vote should be invalidate and there should be a run-off between SWA and Grimalkin.
 
Grimalkin:
Furthermore, thou did not say "midnight on 28 May," thou said "28 May 0000 GMT." What thou didst mean is irrelevant as thou clearly stated the beginning of 28 May. If thou had meant the evening of 28 May, thou wouldst have used "28 May 2400 GMT." They are not interchangeable as thou wouldst have us believe. Hence, red back's vote was a day late.

Rest assured, I will be seeking Election Fraud charges against thee should this not be rectified.
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Really one should use 2359 or 0001 anyway.
 
I also support this argument, as by your specifications regarding the election you set the deadlines to be 0000GMT, which is the morning of the 28th technically, it is impossible for anyone to read your mind as to what you meant when the truth is, you didn't say that, you said something different. Please stick to the rules you set, unknowingly or not because I do not wish for this region to practise corrupt electoral practises.

Also, Grimalkin has been nothing but civil and polite in his dealings with this despite his obvious annoyance that he has missed out on his seat due to malpractice and I commend his dealings with this issue. In contrast I think you have conducted this affair in a very unproffessional manner Mr Electoral Commissioner and you do not have the authority to defy legal and democratic principles of this region as a cover for your poor practice in the role you were appointed to.

Its a harsh assessment I know, and I fear you may be more insulted by it than I intended but I recommend that you rectify the situation as suggested and supported by members of this Regional Assembly who wish to see a fair passage of democracy.
 
Forum Username: red back
TNP Member Nation: aeroguard
TNP WA Member Nation: none at present

Delegate: Missing Dog Head

Vice Delegate:Great Bights Mum

Speaker of the RA: mr_sniffles

Council of Lower Officers (choose up to THREE):
FALCONKATS - Kharkistania - Southwest Asia

I hope I get this in on time as I just got back from overseas!!!
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If you see my last line I did suspect that I was close on time. I had been away for the last 3 1/2 weeks due to work commitments as I posted in the absence thread:

I'm going away for work for about 3-4 weeks from this Tuesday, I do not know if I will have internet access during that time.
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I had been able to log on briefly on my way back home in Singapore but did not have time then to properly give the vote my full attention.

I actually entered the voting booth before the advertised deadline:

Govindia 
Posted: May 28 2008, 11:21 PM
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Elections end in 40 minutes guys, so those who haven't voted and are eligible to vote, cast your votes soon! After 1700 PDT (0000 GMT), all voting will close, all campaigning shall cease, and the election will end and myself and some of my helpers will be tallying the votes and validating ballots....Ninja-Invisible.gif
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By the time I had gone over the selection available for me & made my selection the the clock had ticked over past 0000GMT.

I do suspect that if I were to turn up to a RL voting booth a few minutes before the voting deadline that I would be allowed to enter & then cast my vote, not told that I would not have time to lodge my vote.
 
Read the deadline that was given when the Election Commissioner opened the elections. It states " 28 May 0000 GMT." That is 2000 EDT May 27, 1700 PDT May 27.
 
As I had only just logged on to the thread & saw the 40 minutes to go post I was taking that as the deadline.

Now if what you are saying is true & the election went over by a day why was it not bought up in the proceeding 23 hours & 20 minutes??
 
While I agree with Red Back, I think that this is such a contentious issue that a runoff may need to be in order.

I think this will be the best way for everyone, including RB, to know their vote has been counted without the allegations of discrimination on the part of the Elections Commissioner hanging over the new CLO.
 
Gosh, it really makes you wonder why people are not queueing up to do jobs in TNP, doesn't it? This is precisely the reason why I have preferred not to do the job of election commissioners: the complaints that follow any decision made in this region.

As I see it, the problem is that Govindia's interpretation of when "midnight" is differed from Grimalkin's. My take is that the Election Commissioner is the one whose definition matters, and Gov went beyond the call of duty in posting when the polls were due to close. It was not raised as an issue for the last 24 hours of polling. It only became an issue when Grimalkin discovered that he came second by one vote.

If the Election Commissioner allows himself to be swayed by the posts in this thread, then I feel SWA will have been done a disservice, and the position of Election Commissioner will have been greatly undermined.

I feel this is a matter for the courts, and as I understand the laws of this region, the only grounds for the court to rule against the Election Commissioner is that he engaged in "the willful deception of voters or residents of The North Pacific". The key word there is "willfil". If folks misinterpreted the intended closing date of the election, tough shit. If Govindia WILLFULY deceived the electorate, you have a case.

I for one believe that this is unintended confusion, and should it come to court I will happily serve as Gov's defence counsel and argue that point.
 
When I stated that the vote would close on midnight of 28 May, this referred to the evening of 28 May, I regret that people were confused, but nobody queried it at the time, nor when I posted that the polls would shortly closed. As far as I am concerned, the only possible complaint could be that I allowed Red Back to vote a few minutes after the later deadline I announced.

His reasons for late voting have been explained, and do not seem unreasonable. There was no willful deception involved, and my personal feelings were not a consideration in this issue. As far as I am concerned, the election result stands unless I am overruled by the courts. His vote was fine given the circumstances.

SWA got his seat fair and square. Everyone did a good job campaigning. I did not try to confuse anyone and I apologise if I did, but nowhere did I try to deliberately deceive anyone. All the voting results were certified and presented in an honest manner. Congratulations to everyone.

:ADN:
 
If it was all honest then why can we not just have a run-off. Supposing everyone votes the same way then we should get the same outcome anyway and at least the outcome will then be 100% fair and legitimate. As GBM says, it costs nothing, I would be much more comfortable if we did.

And Flemingovia, had you been drinking when you posted that because I'm pretty sure the key word isn't 'willfil' and I'm not one to put you down as a poor speller! Haha!
 
pffft. A willfil is a small, hairy rodent which inhabits parts of Peru and other latin American countries. It preys on Willfuls and eats them whole, replacing them in sentences.

That is clearly what happened in this case.
 
If we do the run-off vote thing, I see the problem that people who weren't able to vote before are able to vote now, as they have been accepted into the RA (I'm one of them).
 
I would suggest that any votes by those admitted since be discounted, as I'm sure will happen with the delegate run-off.
 
Why do I feel like this is similar to a re-run of Bush v. Gore?

One of the factors involved here is the near total absence of adopted rules and procedures concerning elections.

The advocates of the current constitution insisted on the repeal of vitrually every procedure for elections that was in place in the past; and as a result, we are having these sorts of otherwise avoidable issues.

The current system vests considerable discretion in the Election Commissioner(s) and absent a violation of the terms of the current constitution, bill of rights or the legal code, exercise of reasonable discretion has to be respected. The key word is "reasonable" and so far, I've not seen a legitimate argument that the exerccise of that discretion was not reasonable. I tried to have a motion voted on by the RA that would have set an election calendar, but there was opposition to doing so. Had such a motion been passed, that would have avoided this problem.
 
I have yet to hear any argument for a run off rather than "some people did not understand what the election commissioner meant when he said "Midnight"".

Sorry, but I do not see that as sufficient reason.

Grimalkin has said he has "reason to believe that Govindia's actions may be motivated by malice". OK then - let us hear the evidence or proof that he has for those accusations. If it can be proven, or even evidenced that the Election Commissioner willfully did wrong, then appoint another commissioner and rerun the election. If not, under TNP law the result stands.
 
No, the result does not "stand". Even the sitting delegate supports a run-off election, as does a majority here. At least I have that impression.
 
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