Forum Etiquette

Al Homa

Al Homa

TNPer
Can we create some legislations that forces people to only use reasonable logic on this forum rather than spewing incoherent rubbish that shows no trail of thought or direction.

The consequence of this would probably mean that the 'Enforcer' would be unable to post anything at all.

Can we also move his welcome thread into the entertainment section?
 
Short of a violation of the Terms of Service, it would be difficult to censor other' speech without violating the Bill of Rights for All Nations of The North Pacific, in particular

2. Each Nation's rights to free speech, free press, and the free expression of religion shall not be infringed, and shall be encouraged, by the governmental authorities of the region. Each Nation has the right to assemble, and to petition the governmental authorities of the region, including the UN Delegate, for the redress of grievances. The governmental authorities of the region shall act only in the best interests of the Region, as permitted and limited under this Constitution.
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If you believe there's beena violation of Forum TOS, or of a specific law of The North Pacific, you should contact the moderation team in the Technical area, or the Attorney General.
 
Al Homa:
Can we create some legislations that forces people to only use reasonable logic on this forum rather than spewing incoherent rubbish that shows no trail of thought or direction.

The consequence of this would probably mean that the 'Enforcer' would be unable to post anything at all.

Can we also move his welcome thread into the entertainment section?
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Pipe dreams.

As Gross says, short of TOS there is nothing that can be done, nor should be done. Anything to the contrary is censorship.
 
One person's illogic is another person's belief. It'd never be enforceable. Also there's considerable difference in tone in certain sections, in politics if you can't stand the heat get the hell out of the kitchen. For the A&E it'd be interfering rather than enlightening.
 
:agree:

Enforcing what is tantamount to 'Political Correctness' is censorship.
 
Well going off on this topic. I Believe that yes while freedom of speech should be protected always, it should not be used as an excuse to willfully attack someone personally in my opinion, and I think, if there isn't already, there should be a code of conduct for the forum / RA to ensure that people are civil to each other and respectful to each other at all times, regardless if they like someone personally or not, no? :ADN:
 
Al Homa:
Can we create some legislations that forces people to only use reasonable logic on this forum rather than spewing incoherent rubbish that shows no trail of thought or direction.
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I don't know how I missed this part...


I would like to rename this potential legislation "Repeal The Law of Gravity and Human Nature Act".

How in Hades can you require people to use logic and reason? :blink:

I think a better policy would be to enact a 'Tough Sh*t Act' that reminds thin-skinned, politically correct people who throw a hissy at being called nasty names or have their feelings hurt because they can't take what they dish out that there is something called freedom of speech.

I can be a total jackass at times - I know it, you know it, we all know it. I have no qualms about being called nasty names if the application is correct, which it sometimes is. Well, a lot of times is.

Do I get offended if someone calls me a jackass or b*tch-slaps me with witty repartee? Sometimes, but rarely.

Actually, I'm not really a jackass, I just play one on NationStates. :P

No, really, I am a jackass, through and through. :D
 
That's not the point <_<.

We all should be civil, not degrade ourselves to just a bunch of petty grade schoolers hurling nasty insults at each other. Even if its the Internet, I do expect some people to have some sense of being logical and reasonable, and not treating this site like its 4chan or /b/, or somethingawful.com......:ADN:
 
Govindia:
That's not the point <_<.

We all should be civil, not degrade ourselves to just a bunch of petty grade schoolers hurling nasty insults at each other. Even if its the Internet, I do expect some people to have some sense of being logical and reasonable, and not treating this site like its 4chan or /b/, or somethingawful.com......:ADN:
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I agree. There should be a certain amount of civility but trying to enforce general civility has to be prevented from ending up as mob-rule or a tool for political goals.
 
Al Homa:
Can we create some legislations that forces people to only use reasonable logic on this forum rather than spewing incoherent rubbish that shows no trail of thought or direction.

The consequence of this would probably mean that the 'Enforcer' would be unable to post anything at all.
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We did have forum guide lines that we used in the past but wasn't transferred to this forum. I actually spoke about this a few days ago with members on IRC. I'd be happy to bring that document back, edit it and present it for discussion on this forum. I'd also like to edit the TNP Yellow pages, work with Thel on some new skins for the forum and any other public services. I'm not getting involved in the Gov as I have already privatly resigned from the RA.

However, this will only work if the Global MODS act when they see the start of flaiming and other violations. No disrespect to any Global Mods we currently have...I know GBM is the nicest person in the world and is probably to lenient on people....I have no knowledge of how well Eluvator acts as a MOD (or his experience as one)...but I know that he is very easy going and this may hinder his reaction (no offense if any was taken...Elu is better than chocolate in my book). I know Flem and Gross do enough already and we shouldn't expect them to patrol every inch of this forum.

So...whatever solutions we can come up with...that will be fine with me.
 
Anything so aggregious would be a TOS violation, any law will be struck down by the courts. And I'll be the first to sue might I add.
 
One of the problems with requiring civility is that in most instances, the standard is higly subjective. And consistency therefore, is next to impossible.

Standards have to be predictable in order to be effective, and when those standards call for a high degree of subjectivity, then predictability goes out the window.

Secondly, such standards should be done outside of the RA, since it'll be next to impossible to have one set of standards for RA members, and a different set of standards that would apply to everyone else.
 
Forum moderation is always subjective. A forum guide of etiquette would apply to the whole place. I wrote one on the old forum (since disabled by twoslit) that simply stated community expectations. It didn't require a wall of legalese for people to hide behind.

I know it's not an easy job, I was an admin on the other board for a year. However, if moderators have neither the time nor inclination to actually moderate the forum than perhaps they should explore other opportunities.
 
I agree.

However, I don't think civility is subjective. It's simple. Be courteous and respectful, if you can't be friendly. You don't have to like someone to still give them respect as we are all human beings and that we all should be treated and treating each other with dignity and respect. Goes with the old adage: If you don't have something nice to say, don't say anything at all :) :ADN:
 
I prefer the other adage: Better to stay silent and be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.

Civility is subjective and moderation of such can lead to such inconsistency because not every moderator will share the opinion if what is acceptable and what is not.

Respect is like trust, it needs to be earned. That is not to say that lack of respect is automatically treating someone disrespectfully. There is fine line between disrespect, neutral, and respect. And personally, I start everyone off in the neutral area until they earn my respect or disrespect.
 
Great Bights Mum:
Romanoffia:
Actually, I'm not really a jackass, I just play one on NationStates.
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Totally sigged! :lol:
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Almost as funny as the "It only takes one fruitcake to widdle in the soup...", quote, eh? :lol:

Back to civility -

Civility is a very tough thing to moderate for any number of reasons. Some people can be so thin-skinned that they have a major case of the Aztec Two-Step all over the place at the drop of a hat.

Now, in certain government sections of the forum - such as the RA, Courts, etc., a certain level of civility is needed, or rather an adherence to a certain protocol for those particular forums.
 
I disagree with the notion of "respect is earned." That's very arrogant to think that.

All of us here in NS, and in TNP, deserve to be treated with dignity and respect, and should treat others with dignity and respect, like any other human being. We are human beings and hence have feelings as well. We must not allow disprespect, flamebaiting, flaming, etc. in any form to go unchecked in this region, and that is why I support having a forum code of conduct for not only this Assembly, but for the region as well :ADN:
 
And I believe that it is arrogant to think that everyone deserves respect right off the bat. Again, that doesn't mean straight to disrespect. I treat everyone neutrally, respect wise, when I first meet them, and then decide later which treatment they deserve from me. You for instance, rapidly fell in the other direction. But oh well, since that makes me not human, right?

Either way, I generally oppose legislation that tries to regulate speech. Freedom of speech should also include my right to call you a dickface if I so choose, or Roman a tin-foil loony, and vice versa.
 
Grimalkin:
And I believe that it is arrogant to think that everyone deserves respect right off the bat. Again, that doesn't mean straight to disrespect. I treat everyone neutrally, respect wise, when I first meet them, and then decide later which treatment they deserve from me. You for instance, rapidly fell in the other direction. But oh well, since that makes me not human, right?

Either way, I generally oppose legislation that tries to regulate speech. Freedom of speech should also include my right to call you a dickface if I so choose, or Roman a tin-foil loony, and vice versa.
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It is arrogant to think otherwise. We are all human beings, and as such we deserve to be treated with dignity and respect and should treat each other in that same manner. That is how it is professionally done. That is how it is done in a civil manner. You do not have to like someone to respect them. You can still DISLIKE them and still show basic human decency and respect. It's nothing too complicated.

Freedom of speech has been so greatly abused for people who feel they have the right to not act civil and to not use tact. Freedom of speech means the right to speak out in disagreement without fear of persecution. It does NOT mean you have the right to flame and insult someone, be it me or anyone else, in a disrespectful manner. That's how its done in the real world. If you think people are allowed to publicly call each other such names and not face the consequences, you have much to learn Ag. If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say it all, which does go hand in hand with the adage on staying silent and being thought a fool. Opening one's mouth to just flamebait and disrespect someone would already make them a fool to begin with.

A code of Forum etiquette, and for this RA, is needed. We must be respectful, civil, and polite with each other, and learn to keep our personal opinions to ourselves. It's not hard to do. You have to deal with such things in your project teams in school, on the job, and elsewhere IRL. It's no different. :ADN:
 
A code of Forum Etiquette is NOT needed. Freedom of speech is freedom of speech no matter the speech, except yelling 'Fire!' in a crowded theater or 'Shark!' in a crowded beach. If you start regulating it, then it doesn't become free speech anymore. It becomes regulated speech. Free speech does in fact mean that I can call you a dickface if I want to, it's not like I'd be lying anyway.

If you think I can't go out on to a street corner and start calling people bastards, bitches and assholes as they walk by or bitch someone out on the phone, then you're an idiot. Sure, I'd probably get my teeth knocked in eventually, but that isn't the point. I may not immediately respect everyone, but that doesn't mean I act disrespectful to them. You don't seem to understand that non-respect doesn't automatically mean disrespect. You I disrespect because you deserve it by now, and I'll do it with a smile on my face.

Free speech is free speech, stop bitching and get over it. I still will not support a law for Forum Etiquette as it violates free speech, and that is the last that I will say on it.
 
A code of Forum Etiquette is needed. Guess what ? IRL Free speech is not absolute, nor has been. Free speech was only designed for people to speak in opposition to any government policy they RESPECTFULLY disagree with, not for people to be disrespectful.

Remember what L&C said. It would be good for you to remember it before you go and point to me. We are all human beings here in NS and TNP and everyone deserves to be treated with dignity and respect, regardless of your personal opinion of someone. Don't got anything nice to say? Then don't say it, pure and simple.

Mr. Speaker, given Ag aka Grimalkin's rude behaviour these past two threads, I am calling for a Point of Order on the conduct of this Assemblyman.

This type of conduct is exactly why a code of forum etiquette is needed, so such rude disrespect and flamebaiting can be properly dealt with. Flamebaiting is wrong and should neither be condoned nor sanctioned against anyone, regardless of what one's personal opinion is of that person, period. :ADN:
 
I've responded to Govindia's "Point of Order" that he sent to me by personal message.

So far as I can tell this is a debate, not a personal attack; you both are stating different points of view. The following is my response:

He's not attacking anyone personally. but he is staing his point of view. People need to read both the Bill of Rights and the forum terms of service. The constraints I prefer to use are the boundaries set by the Invisionfree terms of service for these forum.

If he becomes repetitive in his choice of words, then he'll be cautioned, and then warned as may be necessary. Same as anyone else. (We had a very active forum user who had to be counseled about his language back in 2006, so there's precedent for it. I would also point out that if others simply ignore him when he uses inappropriate language, then his ability to influence others will disappear.
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I want to emphasize to everyone that there are defacto limits set by the Invisionfree TOS. Given that, I would suggest caution about imposing rules which might conflict with the TOS. Everyone should re-read both the Bill of Rights in its entirity as well as the Invisionfree forum TOS. Both are relevant here, and both apply to everyone, especially in a legislative seeting, which this is.
 
I believe that Gov's attempt to 'Point of Order' me simply an example of why there shouldn't be a law for forum etiquette: thin-skinned, easily offended individuals who try to hide behind laws when "the going gets tough."

I have been very courteous on this forum and this was nothing more than a thinly-veiled attempt for Gov to get rid of me.
 
well so far some people seemed to have tossed around some suggestions on what could be done, while still keeping in line with forum TOS.

Maybe someone could try to draft something up? :unsure: :ADN:
 
Respect is earned. But if you do not give someone your respect the first time you meet them, you have not earned theirs and might never receive it.
 
The point of order is a good issue to discuss.

I suggest that *point of order* issues should be applied to official government sections of the forum like the RA, Courts, etc.,,, But in general open sections of the forum, free speech that isn't blatantly defamatory or obscene should be left alone and under TOS violations.

If someone becomes really, really uncivil the general community tends to take care of it without any legislative action.
 
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