Forum Reform- Its Neccessary

Alright, Gross has refused out of hand to reform the forums in any way. I think he is out of touch with the reality of the situation.

As such, I would like to RA to hold a vote on such a move. This is a petition for said vote. If you agree that the forum needs some clean up and general reformatting, post your support as well as any specific proposals here.

This is my proposal:
1) Central Plaza
-Welcome Center
-General Announcements
-North Pacific Wire

*Nations of the North Pacific Merged into Nationstates Discussion Forum
*Map of the North Pacific Merged into Role-Play
*Government Directory Deleted

2)Entertainment District
-Games and Arts
-Role Play

*Out Of Character Deleted and its topics moved to Real-Life Discussion or Games and Arts, depending on the nature of the particular topic.

3)The Cafe
-Blogs
-Nationstates Discussion
-Real Life Discussion

4) Magicality City
-Delegate's Office
-Cabinet Halls

*WA Resolutions merged into Delegate's Office as a Subforum
*Office of Legal Affairs moved to "The Judiciary"

5)Regional Assembly
-Unchanged

6)Justice
-Court of the North Pacific
-Office of Legal Affairs

*Regional Ban List moved into Delegate's Office as a subforum

7)Internal Affairs
-TNP Wire moved to Central Plaza; otherwise unchanged

8)Foreign Affairs
-Unchanged

9)Defense Affairs
-Unchanged, but moved up one spot to be above the Gryphons

10)Gryphons
-Unchanged, for now

*University
-Archive the whole thing. Its not being used, and should probably start with a blank slate if its going to be used again. The Guild idea would work well with it.

11)Technology
-Unchanged

12)Archives
-Unchanged

PS: DO NOT MOVE THIS TOPIC TO THE TECH SUPPORT. THIS IS AN RA TOPIC.
 
Keep this proposal, but hold it until the present crisis is over. I will abstain if it is brought to a vote now.
 
This thread belongs in preliminary discussions, assuming that it is even appropriate for a RA proposal. So it will be moved to that area.

What I find interesting is that when I pointed out why your suggestions for changes were not useful at this time (given that the forums here were extensively reorganized in December-January) your response whs to start yet another thread in the wrong place.

You have yet to make any sort of case that any changes are needed especially since there are legitimate reasons to the contrary.

And for the record, I will quote my discussion concerning what you've proposed.

Specific comments on the proposal:

The Nations of the North Pacific has been a location for players with nations in the North Pacific to discuss their particular nation(s) within TNP,and allows TP'ers to become familar with one another. This is distinct from the Nationstates Discussions, which tend to deal with interregional and Nationstates-wide concerns.

The Map of The North Pacific is Thel's playground. he's the moderator for that forum, and he tends to be inactive with the mao when there is a division within the Region. I don't get on IRC too often, but Thel is usually there, and there's nothing stopping someone from getting in touch with Thl and asking him what's the status is. The OOC frums are the fun/entertainment side involving the RL personalities behind the players, as opposed to the forums in the Cafe area which are more serious and topical in nature.

The WA forum is kept separate from the Delegate's office for visibility....it's the primary vehicle for participation in deciding how the region's vote will be cast on WA resolutions, and burying it within another forum would discourage participation -- a consequence that would be the exact opposite of what we should be seeking.

The North Pacific Wire is under the control of the Office for Interior Affairs. Mum's appointee for that office is Mr. Sniffles, and he hasn't asked for any changes.  You should seek his input before any changes are discussed since such a change may or may not be something he wants for the Wire.

The Office for Legal Affairs was moved out of the judiciary area for a very good reason. There continues to be a misconception among some that the head of the Legal Office has power over the Court of the North Pacific, rather than the other way around. The best way to reinforce the correct distinction is to place the Legal Affairs Office with the Cabinet in the Magicality City area. Someone will have to demonstrate to me that the misconception has been purged out of the situation. Given that the last elected incumbent of the Delegate's chair and his appointee did not honor or recognize the distinction, I'd rather have the Legal Affairs Office kept out of the Judiciary area, until then. We do have an Attorney General (Byardkuria), and you should speak with him concerning the location of that forum, as it is his office at the moment.

The Ban List has in the past been conceived as a quasi-judicial area, so I don't agree that it should be moved. Banning is a punishment, which is an essentially judicial function, and supports the Ban List forum being where it is.

One of the reasons why there's nothing happening with the University is that the last elected board of regents refused to do their jobs, or even elect a new chancellor. And a majority of the last Board are now members of the Criminson Order, which doesn;t help things either, since the University is autonimous from the government. My suspicion is that it will be difficult to restart the University as long as the commmunity is spilt over the Delegacy. I have to check and see when the next Regent elections are due (IIRC its is the month of May or June) and we can look at electing a new Board at that time.
 
When did Grosse refuse out of hand to reform the forums in any way?

He simply moved your post to the Suggestions Box. Flemingovia is head administrator anyway!
 
Keep this proposal, but hold it until the present crisis is over. I will abstain if it is brought to a vote now.
:agree:

And can we please shut this, or the other thread down. Personally I'd agree with Grosse that this isn't an RA matter. And I hardly see how posting some reasonably valid arguments against specific parts of this re-organisation qualifies as dismissing out of hand.
 
I can't believe that after this many issues with coups and other attempts that z13 still hasn't learned that issues with bloated, disorganized forums and a similarly orientated government are what drives people away from this forum and into the camps of the various demagogues that try to take over the reason. Of course, once the demagogues take power, these people get disappointed and wind up leading the region as a whole- that's why the Crimson's are inactive, yet you are not seeing any great movement of people back to z13.

To address Gross's arguments before this thread is closed, here is what I have to say:

The Nations of The North Pacific is practically unused. Save for a subforum with a post for people to announce when they get the top 200 and a thread on Upper Kirby, it is empty. If you do keep it, I would ask that you at least move the "I got Top 200" thread into the main "Nations of the North Pacific" forum and delete the unnecessary subforum.

I've talked to Thel in IRC. He hasn't answered me when I asked about the map. Maybe someone else should try talking to him.

The WA forum can stay, if visibility is an issue.

Speaking of visibility, that is why I suggested moving the Wire up near the top of the forum index. Most other regions I know of put their news where people can find it easily. Of course, you should ask Sniffles, but I'm sure he'll agree that having more people read the wire is a good thing.

I suggested having the judiciary and the prosecution stuck in a broad "Justice" category because they deal with the same thing. If making sure people don't confuse it with the Judiciary is your reason, why not put it at the same level of the other Ministries and give it its own Forum Category like the rest? That would at least make it certain that the Prosecutor isn't just a tool of the delegate.

Since banning is the delegate's duty, the ban list should be in his office. The high court cannot ban someone.

The university is worthless, and that seems to be the one thing that everyone but you has agreed on. I say it needs to be restarted using Flem's guild idea as an outline, and be completely separate from the government. Since the current University is based on a law that is defunct, it should be removed so the new university doesn't have any obstacles to restarting itself on its own terms.

You didn't disagree with this, but the Ministry of Defense needs to be moved above Gryphons for aesthetics, since its a ministry and shouldn't be separated from the rest by a defunct knightly order's deserted chapterhouse.
 
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