Back in the Delegate's Office

Great Bights Mum

Great Bights Mum

Grande Dame
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*Peers down the hall*
I don't think I'm crazy about the idea of an appointed cabinet... when the Delegate goes rogue, they all just follow along like sheep. Ah well, there's work to be done here!

First off, we DO have a Constitution. Until we vote to change it, it stands. I do not recognize L&C's Codex. We will not be governed by any dictatorial decrees.

I affirm the dismissal from the RA of those who violated their oaths to uphold the Constitution. Since John Ashcroft Land was one of those dismissed, he shall not have a seat on the bench. I recognize Flemingovia as the duly elected Court Justice, by virtue of his having garnered the second highest numbe of votes for the position.

I hereby rescind the order to disband the NPA and NPIA. Now, more than ever, a solid military force is needed. I name Galapagos Isle as Minister of Defence. The NPIA has its work to do as well. The identity of the Director is currently classified information.

There are currently three Government-in-Waiting positions I intend to fill within the next week. Those are: Attorney General, Minister of the Interior and Minister of Foreign Affairs. The duties and responsibilities of the Interior and Foreign Affairs ministries will be markedly different from those in the past, so interested parties should contact me.
 
Good point.

More over, the "Government-in-Waiting" is fighting its own former members. Most of the Cabinet has turned out in support of Westwind as have quite a few of the RA.

The argument could be had that this is an invasion on Gatevilles part but I think it more accurate to say that Gatesville is an attention whore whom would come to TNP whether invited or not.
 
Most of the cabinet are now democracy destroying traitors.
 
Folks this is the third straight NP delegate that has turned against the regime here and obviously something is wrong. I have no conflict with the fine folk in the great region of The North Pacific, however when the elected delegate and the peoples choice requests aid Gatesville will respond.
 
elected delegate and the peoples choice
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Well, without the artificial inflation of numbers due to Gatesville etc presence, GBM has more native endorsements now than WW. I think we will all agree that this makes her the people's choice.

Now that WW has gone rogue she is also the rightful delegate by the legal process of the region.

So I assume this means that should she request Gatesville to leave, they will do so. Anything else would be hypocritical.
 
How has he gone rogue Flem? Take a good look at his new cabinet and supporters they are native North Pacificans who were very active on this forum. Of course they will now be labeled as outcasts and rabble rousers by the selected few here because they cry for a change.
 
Are you all so sadly desperate to crush your region for the sake of clinging to empty titles?

Come on, people. Change is painful, yes. But you're acting as if something bad happened to the region. It hasn't.
 
Ah Roman. I do love you so.


Last week : "Evil L and C, PURGE! PURGE! STOP THE PURGE!"

This week: "Democracy destroying traitors, PURGE THEM ALL!"
 
Gates has it ever occured to you that the policies you pursue is the root cause of what is ailing the game of NS?

That your myraid policies are choking the life out of Nationstates and everything associated with it? Muchless the fact that the common denominator in the last three rogue delegates here has been the presence of you and your forces?

If Nationstates is in decline or dying, one of the causes can be laid at Gatesville's feet as one of the guilty parties?

Lewis and Clark was elected under a system, that he swore an oath to and which prohibited him or anyone else from suspending or abolishing our fundamental laws. Te fact that the Bill of Rights is now a separate document does not affect the fact thatit is a fundamental law that is binding on anyonw who was elected to office under it. L&C has violated his oaths and the Bill of Rights, no ifs or whats about it. As such the legal and moral high ground rests here, as far as The North Pacific goes. End of Story.
 
Darkesia:
Are you all so sadly desperate to crush your region for the sake of clinging to empty titles?

Come on, people. Change is painful, yes. But you're acting as if something bad happened to the region. It hasn't.
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Nice to see you acknowledge that it's our region, not yours.

But I think something bad has happened. After all, even if we all decided to join your new government you wouldn't let us participate.

No, instead of a system where at least the majority of us needed some kind of approval from the masses for power you have 15 guys who won't share it.
 
Gross:

NS lives and dies on conflict. That is the game we have built and seen over the last 5 years. The last set of situations like this directly increased interest- we had constitutional change out of it for gods sake. But every time we go back to the old system you expound, and NS slips further into oblivion.

So I would suggest Gatesville and things such as this do the opposite.
 
Fulhead Land:
Gross:

NS lives and dies on conflict. That is the game we have built and seen over the last 5 years. The last set of situations like this directly increased interest- we had constitutional change out of it for gods sake. But every time we go back to the old system you expound, and NS slips further into oblivion.

So I would suggest Gatesville and things such as this do the opposite.
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So when does your system become the old system and we get to overthrow it democratically? Can you give us a deadline? Will it be 2 weeks from now?
 
I'm not sure whats democratic about your plan to otherthrow the delegate and (again) install an unelected GBM (no offence GBM) into the delegacy.
 
Grosseschnauzer:
Gates has it ever occured to you that the policies you pursue is the root cause of what is ailing the game of NS?

That your myraid policies are choking the life out of Nationstates and everything associated with it? Muchless the fact that the common denominator in the last three rogue delegates here has been the presence of you and your forces?

If Nationstates is in decline or dying, one of the causes can be laid at Gatesville's feet as one of the guilty parties?
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And has it ever occurred to you that your policies are choking the life out of TNP?
 
Well if you guys had elections (which you don't) then I'd garner enough support to get GBM elected, and then declare that as a basis for destroying the entire government and starting a new one.
 
Fulhead Land:
I'm not sure whats democratic about your plan to otherthrow the delegate and (again) install an unelected GBM (no offence GBM) into the delegacy.
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When the Delegate is indisposed or otherwise unable to fulfilll his oath of office, it only makes sense for the Vice Delegate to step up. :D
 
The main debate, however, is what do you consider to be the scope of the delegate's power.

The Old Guard claims that it's the constitution. A valid claim, yes.

Others claim that it's game mechanics. An equally valid claim.

Unless a compromise can be struck between those two positions, this is always going to happen.
 
This is quality, TNP has gained 200 nations in a matter of days. I think this whole thing is a great laugh. Definetly keeps things interesting.

Like a world microcosm. People like to have something to be fighting for and when they can't fight, they watch football.

It's all fun and games until someone loses an eye-then it it's hilarious :rofl:
 
It also proves NS still has some life in her. There has been a change in activity but is there any chance any time soon that delegates will choose to inspire us and lead us without going rogue?
 
NS have some life when you decide to start doing something instead of sticking to the past.

L&C have been trying to do that, but some of the members decide that everything that isn't a traditional TNP thing is bad. (Regional Defence Force, Endo-Cap, etc) So we need some change to help us get to a better future.
 
ha, is WW not sticking to the past in attempting the re-create the PRP? What a breath of fresh air. Is not not sticking to his own past as a dictator? When WW tried to take Equilism for his own there was uproar, now when its a feeder and equilismers have a bite at a big apple, they dont seem to mind him being a dictator.
 
You know, this may not be my place to say anything, however, as an ambassador, it is partly my job to voice an outside opinion.

Can any of you say that if you had the chance, you wouldn't like to have the extra bit of power? Sure, you may not be a dictator, but honestly ask yourselves. Everyone, including myself, will try to bend things my way a little bit.

On another note. If he is a dictator, if you are the Vichy Republic of TNP, doesn't this give you guys something to do? Of Time of Peaceful Existence, you've had a few rogues. Did it not throw life a curve, and present a challenge? Where's the challenge in sitting, writing useless legislation in a fake government? Now you have something to fight for. As does West Wind.

As an outsider, I support the Split, maybe not because it was on legal grounds, but because it has quite existentially presented another dynamic to your governments. Governments in War. TNP is by no means a "Third-World" region, however you do now have numerous problems at hand.

I would say that, although a regrettable situation on the outside, this coup is highly acceptable. The Final question is, what are you all going to do about it? This I want to see :)
 
Can any of you say that if you had the chance, you wouldn't like to have the extra bit of power?
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Yes. Honestly. Me.

I have had power. I have been both delegate and Prime Minister here, and delegate in Taijitu and elsewhere. Power is not that attractive. Any thug can have power.

What gives me an erotic thrill in this game nowadays is persuasion. Winning an argument, swaying the crowd. That is why I will take democracy over Autocracy any day. For me it simply makes for a better game.
 
Knockavale, please don't tell me that the reason that you are here right now isn't because you think you have a chance for the slice of power? You jump for a chance when you see the old guard government. Equilism didn't fall into the hand of WW. If it isn't because of his move to protect Equilism from inactivity, we will all be long gone.

We aren't recreating PRP, we just borrow some of the good idea that they have and combined with more idea we have to make TNP a better region.
 
If there is one thing I know about the universe of internet political arguments it's that no one is persuaded. People come to the internet to expound. They talk. Very few listen at all. those that do listen are basically waiting to hear someone articulate their previously held beliefs and reinforce them.

It's possible that NS politics is different, but I have yet to see evidence that it is so.

And quite honestly, Flem. The only reason you don't long for power is because you have it already and realize it's not all it's cracked up to be. But... now that your power is threatened, you're not so sure you want to lose it.

In the end, every major player in this region wants to do what they think is best for the region. They just disagree on what they think is best. That disagreement is driving the conflict. It's about power, yes. But really it's about rationalizing that feeling of "if they would only listen to me! I know what is best."
 
I agree with Flem 1000%. The exercise of power at the end of a stick is the easy way. Anyone can do it. The real challenges of leadership require more finesse. Diplomacy, mediating amongst factions, politicking... now that's exciting stuff!

@ryykland: I certainly welcome your opinion on the current situation. While it's true that activity surges in the short term when there is conlict, I have not noticed that it improves matters over the long term. People's feelings get hurt, grudges are carried, and good players leave the region, or the game entirely. I hope you'll stick around when we have this mess to clean up afterwards. It's never pretty.
 
Stick around? I got nothing better to do :)

Medieval Total War continues to crash, a friend broke my SimCity 4, My girlfriend moved back to Canada with her parents (school is expensive), and I hate internet RPGs. NS is all I have left :P
 
Felasia:
Knockavale, please don't tell me that the reason that you are here right now isn't because you think you have a chance for the slice of power? You jump for a chance when you see the old guard government. Equilism didn't fall into the hand of WW. If it isn't because of his move to protect Equilism from inactivity, we will all be long gone.
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I have had power before, ive had the delegacy of regions and ive had the founder position in regions. I am also the founder of one of two defender orgs left in the game.I have had power, feeders for me hold very little power in the game anyway. The reason i am here is to help the rightful leader GBM into the delegates seat. i am not here for a chance at power. I was here when IP and GB had coups and i was involved in those undergrounds and GiEs. You can ask Flem, i have never asked for a position afterwards. i have never asked for anything in fact. I will not take any position in this government and you can take me at my word.

The equilism that went inactive was the only equilism that matters. taking over the region as i keep stating is an easy and short term solution to a problem.
 
rykkland:
Can any of you say that if you had the chance, you wouldn't like to have the extra bit of power? Sure, you may not be a dictator, but honestly ask yourselves. Everyone, including myself, will try to bend things my way a little bit.
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Of course not! *hides book on "World Conquest for Dummies"* :D
 
rykkland:
Stick around? I got nothing better to do :)

Medieval Total War continues to crash, a friend broke my SimCity 4, My girlfriend moved back to Canada with her parents (school is expensive), and I hate internet RPGs. NS is all I have left :P
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Man, Medieval Total War doesn't even run properly on XP and not at all on Vista. :P

At any rate, back on topic...

One of the things that the self-proclaimed King, Crimson Kriminal, is moaning about is the so-called "Old Guard". Funny, he accuses the "Old Guard" as just wanting to cling to power when he is the one who seized it like a common thug.

A GBM says, it's very easy to wield power like a giant club, but finesse and political skill builds a better base that will actually last for longer than a brief instant.

If the Pest Winds of The Crimson Kriminal names me of being one of the "Old Guard", then I am in extremely good company. Sure, having power to preserve order, freedom and democracy is a good thing to strive for, but the so-called "Old Guard" consists of people who wish to use power only as delegated and never in a way that infringes upon the rights to other. Our rogue delegate doesn't understand that it isn't better to be feared than loved. Being a thug only goes so far and the Rogue Delegate will be relegated to the dust-bin of history. If he lasts a month before he gets deposed, I will be surprised.

I have faith in the better nature of people to recognize a dictator when they see on and I have faith that people will unendorse the dictator WW when they realize what he is. The course here is to convince those who unwittingly endorsed WW to unendorse him. I believe that logic, reason and enlightened self-interest will prevail and our region be restored to the people.


R
 
Roman, these changes would have been done democratically anyway since Westwind and his supporters had control of the executive and the legislative systems.

Edit: From a mature point of view, giving your "opponent" stupid nicknames doesn't strengthen your own position, whatever you may think.
 
Emperor Matthuis:
Roman, these changes would have been done democratically anyway since Westwind and his supporters had control of the executive and the legislative systems.

Edit: From a mature point of view, giving your "opponent" stupid nicknames doesn't strengthen your own position, whatever you may think.
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If they would have occurred democratically then why did L&C have to declare himself "King" and without any democratic or Constitutional authority nullify the Constitution?

I'll tell you why, because he couldn't get enough people to do it Constitutionally and legally. L&C could not afford to have any debate or discussion on his mad dash to total dictatorial power. That's why. And that's where your analysis is entirely wrong.

The one thing I can say for you (and to your credit in my book) is that you voluntarily gave up the Delegacy and did it with class. Unfrtunately you didn't get anyone really moving in any significant numbers by doing it and it happened all over again. This time L&C just went Franco on us all like a common thug, no class involved.

The irony this time is that L&C, who made a mockery of himself and deserves all the derision he gets for betraying those who thought him a friend, will fall because of the apathy of his followers and everyone else who has seen self-aggrandizing dictators come and go. All we have to do is sit around and watch him and his regime collapse. Same Bat Channel, same Bat Time, same results. But at least it's causing a growth in activity by the formerly apathetic who are tired of this same old cast of Rogue Delegates who call in other regions to do their bidding. Ultimately, he will lose his support because those who support him realize he is weak, petty and ultimately incapable of doing their bidding.

Franco is laughing wherever he is.
 
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