Why not be different?

Haor Chall

Haor Chall

The Power of the Dark Side
TNP Nation
Haor Chall
Why not be different?

Perhaps we need to take a bigger leap than we have been looking at. Maybe we should try and do something a little more adventurous...

Obviously that could take many forms but I think one of the best (that still, one hopes, should provide enough security for the more... conservative folk here) is the constitutional monarchy idea. I propose that we make GBM our monarch and well... go from there. Rather than trying to lay down a vast pile of laws to cover every single potential what-if before we begin, perhaps we should try something a little more freeform. Start out with something little more than a Bill of Rights (Magna Carta if you will) and see what happens. Let our government evolve over time into whatever we decide we want. Let us be ambitious, be different. Sure, there is -like everything- an element of risk but without risk what interest is there? Look around at TNP, what we have become, and think that something much more open might be more interesting. Ultimately, what do we have to lose?

And to that question I have an answer to help soothe the conservative trembling, GBM is someone we can trust. If we try this and it doesn't work out, we can always look again. Simple as. Same goes with succession before anyone brings it up- wait until it happens. We may decide at that GBM can choose her successor, or maybe by that time we decide to return to an elected Delegacy. Why cast in stone that now when we have no idea what will happen over the next weeks or months. I think we need to change the way we look at things- let us take risks, let us take things as they come rather than try and legislate for every possible future occurance, the future is unpredictable after all.

Let us be different. What do we have to lose?
 
I am all for a big change, but don't you think the concept of a monarchy is over-used? It works well, though, not to mention how cool it actually is. :P
 
You'd be creating a cult of personality, that's why.

I won't point out specifics, but the feeders who have gone that route don't appear to be democracies, and that poses a problem.

I don't think the adversion is to change. but to depotism, anarchy and instability. Every time TNP has thrended towards any of those, everything becomes inactive.
 
I actually quite like the idea of that. GBM is about a trustworthy as you get, the evolution of a process tends to make it more (*dons his John Reid hat) fit for purpose than if you try to lay it down from the beginning, and risks are where its at.

It works well, though, not to mention how cool it actually is...
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Too true. Monachies are the birth place of bling.

You'd be creating a cult of personality, that's why.
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Cult of GBM? Grosse, you sly dog, that is a excellent idea!
 
Lazarus is one of the feeders who are practicing monarchy, but the reason why it's not a democracy is because it's Absolute Monarchy. I haven't yet found a feeder who is currently practicing a Constitutional Monarchy wherein they'd actually have a Prime Minister. I honestly think it'd work well in a large feeder.
 
Grosseschnauzer:
I don't think the adversion is to change. but to depotism, anarchy and instability. Every time TNP has thrended towards any of those, everything becomes inactive.
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Funny you brought up activity Grosse because, you, we're inactive right now.

Also, allow me to play Devil's advocate here, hasn’t The North traditionally been more active when taken over by a despotic, anarchic, instable leader?
 
Grosseschnauzer:
I won't point out specifics, but the feeders who have gone that route don't appear to be democracies, and that poses a problem.
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And what associates TNP with the other feeders, apart from being a feeder itself? What will cause TNP, if we go down this path, to not appear as a democracy?
 
You'd be creating a cult of personality
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Yes. How terrible. Back to the cult of paperwork I say!I shall file the 47 legally required documents to validate that statement and then we can jump to it in just a small forests worth of papers time!
 
But when has Francoism worked, other than the Pacific under Franco's Spain himself? In my experience, most "Francoist" systems are just a shell disguising Userite control.
 
Look at it this way - we have a despot usurper as Delegate now. If we are going to take back out regionwe are going to have to get a little extreme to do it. I recommend we pull out all the stops and remove EM asap.

And as for Gatesville's demand to hand over JAL, they can stuff it. I for one do not believe in giving in to terrorism and blackmail.

So, let's get down the the business of removing the traitor EM and his Gatesville masters.
 
Haor Chall:
Rather than trying to lay down a vast pile of laws to cover every single potential what-if before we begin, perhaps we should try something a little more freeform.
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About time.
 
First we need someone to organize some kind of military. While a bunch of independent nations coming in to volunteer and lend their support helps, they can serve us much better if they are organized into an effective fighting force. Also, we need to find as many updaters as possible- friendly raiders, defenders, and any others. The time for action is now.
 
Blue Wolf II:
Yar, embrace the raider support, because defender sure don't seem to care much!
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You know, I once suggested enlisting the support of raiders to protect our regional interests but I nearly got my head handed to me for it.

And to echo someone else's sentiment, the longer I stay in the game the more Francoism begins to appeal to me also.

We need a stronger executive and make whomever we elect delegate fill that position and give them a little more freedom and authority to act on their own when needed (within whatever constitutional bounds that may define that authority).

We can have a strong democracy, but we've got to trim down the size of the bureacracy because as it is, we have more chiefs than indians as it stands now.


R
 
This is where we needed to start discussions of change in the first place: Wipe the slate clean and start with all options on the table. Park your defender/invader/democracy/monarchy/fracoist/userist/whateverist-or-ism divisions at the door, and consider all of those options and more without the coloring of past experience or regional history. Just plan on scrapping the Constitution and build from scratch.

TNP is no longer the region of it's history. Those days have passed into inactivity. We have to use today's events and players to chart our tomorrow. Not base today's decisions on yesterday's issues and conflicts.

I thought it was clear last delegate crisis that we need major changes to strengthen TNP and ensure it's security and viability. The old government structures of TNP are not currently viable, and clearly they are not providing us with the security the region requires. To me that means we need a strong government, integrating the delegate, and focused on security through activity.

I think we should consider the Constitutional Monarchy, or Francoism, or even a Dictatorship of our choosing - not imposed upon us. We need a strong central voice and authority.

I think we should work with raiders and defenders alike. We are a Feeder region, we do not need to be a part of that old feud. We recognize both, we are all players of NS, and all are 'born' in the Feeders.

We are the Homeland of all nations, and should set our own course.
 
This is my response to this concept:

Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. - George Santayana (1863-1952)
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And Emperor Matthuis' actions this last week are ample proof of that axiom of history and reality.

The real problem is that the debate on proposals got lost in the shuffle of occupants in various offices. I think my reputation is such that there can be confidence that I will fairly moderate debates and move things along in a fair pace.

Monte Ozkara, Romanoffia, and Hoar Chall all put proposals on the floor of the Regional Assembly. I have established a end date for debate and changes in those proposals, fixed the time for the final debate, and have set the date for voting on them. At that poin the proposals, or one of them will pass, or fail. If it fails then we continue with what is in place today.

I'm not limiting the proposals to those three. Others can be added, but the dates will not be changed. This issue will come to a final vote in the RA; unlike the shenangigans I was subject to by Mr Sniffles at one point when he was Speaker.
 
I remember a story a friend of mine once told.
There were once 2 monkeys, a ladder, and some bananas that were used, as the "bait". A monkey would then climb the ladder, grab the bananas, and an alarm would go off and soak the monkeys with water. The other monkey would do the same, and, same result. Eventually, they decided that grabbing the bananas was a bad idea. Then, they introduced a new monkey, who went to grab the bananas and the other 2 vet monkeys gave him a beating since they didn't want to get wet. Another monkey was then introduced and did the same thing, the other three gave him a beating as well. This continued until none of the original monkeys were still around, and yet they always gave a new monkey some beating everytime the new one climbs the ladder, without understanding why. None of them ever suffered the alarm, or got wet, but the beating still went on. The moral of the story? Just because something has been in practice for soo long, it doesn't mean that it has to continue. Because the fact is, the observationists turned the alarm off as well as the water supply long long after the last observation(the third monkey). All these monkeys had to do was grab the bananas and they would've realised that, if only there was room for change.
 
Grosseschnauzer:
This is my response to this concept:

Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. - George Santayana (1863-1952)
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And Emperor Matthuis' actions this last week are ample proof of that axiom of history and reality.
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You never will understand, will you Grosse? It's kind of ironic I suppose, you posting that quote, since you are the person who has failed to learn from the past.
 
The moral of these events:

The North Pacific needs four things:

1) A strong executive, like a king or president

2) A trustworthy vice executive, who has nearly as many endos as the executive

3) Viable domestic counter intelligence

4) An active and organized military
 
5. Wet bananas


The heart of the matter is that EM has wanted the Delegacy since his arrival. It IS the brass ring. He didn't win it in an election, so he decided to steal it.
 
Outer Kharkistania:
The moral of these events:

The North Pacific needs four things:

1) A strong executive, like a king or president

2) A trustworthy vice executive, who has nearly as many endos as the executive

3) Viable domestic counter intelligence

4) An active and organized military
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Absolutely.

And it needs wet bananas too. And a healthy dose of kippered herring. And some stilton too.

But seriously folks, I think we need something that resembels the ancient roman senate and imperium - that is, a strong, well defined and simple constitution and a strong executive who is under the orders of the senate to do whatever is needed to remain in the Delegate's seat until directed by elections to do otherwise. It's that simple.
 
Finally, things seem to changing around here. Now, I'm not to deeply involved in the region and am not familiar with the intricacies of feeder politics, but if it's a simple Constitution you want I'd be more than willing to help out. I enjoy such things, and I've written documents of the sort which were in all a page in length.
 
TNP is so easily usurped due to laws that have essentially remained conceptually unchanged for years.

If that's not history, I do not know what is. It's time for a revolution in TNP. It won't make TNP a bulletproof or dictator proof region, but at minimum it may move us from inactivity and subversion to something different.

I'm all for it and I think a new system will inject new life into the region.
 
I'd like to just copy/paste TWP's Constitution personally.

We tried what amounted to a monarchy before, and that gave us twoslit. But then again, consensus is generally (I think) that twoslit was a good delegate, just a horrid admin. So it might work, dunno.
 
John Ashcroft Land:
I'd like to just copy/paste TWP's Constitution personally.

We tried what amounted to a monarchy before, and that gave us twoslit. But then again, consensus is generally (I think) that twoslit was a good delegate, just a horrid admin. So it might work, dunno.
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The monarchy died under PD, not twoslit.

s2 died under the adminship of twoslit.
 
True, Pixiedance is even worse.

Anyway, at least in my opinion, it's less a question of government type as much as it is how smart we are about going about it. For example, using endorsement caps, using static delegate nations rather than switching every three months, and/or actually having Vice Delegates and active Security Councils.

Either way, we're TNP, and we're going to have coups :tb2:
 
I'm just tired of fighting to prop up a system that's perpetually abused.

We've got real problems within our governmental structure. We need to stop putting del's on the sidelines as we have.

Let's start thinking outside the box and if need be, let go of some of our traditions.
 
John Ashcroft Land:
We tried what amounted to a monarchy before, and that gave us twoslit. But then again, consensus is generally (I think) that twoslit was a good delegate, just a horrid admin. So it might work, dunno.
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Speaking of twoslit, his nation arrived in-region on the 12th of this month. Just thought I'd share that tidbit.
 
Been telegram-chatting with Twoslit. Nice to see him 'round. I always thought he was a good delegate myself.
 
Twoslit was a tool!!

Speaking of tools, I like the sound of "Poltsism"!! Either as some sort of cult or a disease caused by some sort of genetic mutation!!

But its nice to see that some people are realising the pretend elected delegate sham is probably not the best avenue to take!! I've been waiting around at this conclusion for ages, nice to see you all made it eventually!! Now hurry along there Schnauzer!!
 
Poltsamaa:
Twoslit was a tool!!

Speaking of tools, I like the sound of "Poltsism"!! Either as some sort of cult or a disease caused by some sort of genetic mutation!!

But its nice to see that some people are realising the pretend elected delegate sham is probably not the best avenue to take!! I've been waiting around at this conclusion for ages, nice to see you all made it eventually!! Now hurry along there Schnauzer!!
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You've got it all wrong, Poltys, it's not poltsism, it's !!ism. :lol:


I agree with PD. I have suggested earlier in my rough draught of a constitution that the Delegate be the chief executive authority.

If you have a Delegate who is the chief executive officer of a government and who is charged with not only protecting the region tooth and nail but also making sure that the government and constitution remains in tact, you can't go wrong because what person, even power hungry, would upset his own position as delegate?
 
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