Notice of Intent to Recall from Office: Everyone

New Kervoskia

New Kervoskia

TNPer
There is no one in this region fit to hold office as a public servant. The whole of the modern regime is occupied with arguing with the arguers of arguers. The constituion has become both a weapon, a shield, and a bureaucratic invalid. No one is concerned with reaching any viable solution. Therefore I request that everyone, the PM, the Delegate, the RA, the courts all be recalled. There are only children present, not sage politicians.
 
I sympathize with New Kervoskia's statement, since I cannot officially support or oppose it due to the inactivity of the government.
 
Byardkuria:
*Byardkuria is properly chastened and vewwy sowwy.
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This is the attitude and behavior that I find appalling. One of the cabinet members posting a view point that eschews apathy in regards to the current situation.
 
Finally, a recall I can put my name to!!

New Kervoskia, we need more people like you in this region!!

Consider this signed.
 
It's "clique", Polts. "Clique".

Or possible "cabal".

I like "illuminati", but it's hard to get it to stick. Not to mention that the l's confuse people.
 
Yes, yes clique!! Always get that word wrong!! But still, my comment stands no matter how you try and deflect from it!!

You choose to ignore the illness and attack those that point it out!! Instead of trying to be a smart-arse and ignoring valid concerns you'd probably be best to actually do something about what is causing problems in the region!!

Then again, crap government is something we come to expect in TNP and with the ruling clique only interested in protecting themselves and their precious Constitution things will never improve!!
 
While I feel Byards comment's have not been a very productive response to this thread, it does not entitle me to lash out at or attack him. I apologize for letting my emotions get the best of me.

Recalls of government members are a nifty distraction, but they are exactly that and these recalls will not lead to real change. The change that TNP needs to undergo.
 
Grosseschnauzer:
This thread is irrelevant, as Mr. Spock would say.

Just organize elections, and the problem will sort and solve itself.
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And how can you be certain that electing new officials will make all our woes go POOF? Complicated problems rarely have such simple solutions.
 
Grosseschnauzer:
This thread is irrelevant, as Mr. Spock would say.

Just organize elections, and the problem will sort and solve itself.
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If this thread is irrelevant, then the others posted are just plain absurd!

Elections will put a new batch of ineffectual politicos in office who dilly-dally around the may pole. The situation requires more than handing out pinks slips and giving roll call.
 
Eluvatar:
Grosseschnauzer:
This thread is irrelevant, as Mr. Spock would say.

Just organize elections, and the problem will sort and solve itself.
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Of course. Certainly. Indubitably. To think otherwise is inconceivable.
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Eluvatar, I am not sure if your tone is sarcastic or not. Elections cannot solve all of our problems as Grosse stated. It can be the first step to curing our ailments, but elections are not a cure all.
 
Joshua:
Eluvatar:
Grosseschnauzer:
This thread is irrelevant, as Mr. Spock would say.

Just organize elections, and the problem will sort and solve itself.
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Of course. Certainly. Indubitably. To think otherwise is inconceivable.
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Eluvatar, I am not sure if your tone is sarcastic or not. Elections cannot solve all of our problems as Grosse stated. It can be the first step to curing our ailments, but elections are not a cure all.
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I am appalled to think that you had the impertinence, the gross opprobium to even suggest that I was being sarcastic!

Naturally the mere act of holding some sort of ballot will completely transform the situation in every way. It will solve all of our difficulties at a stroke!

Bickering and strife will turn to unison, cooperation, and a new beginning overnight!

Have you no sense of decency, at long last Mr. Joshua? Have you, at long last, no sense of decency that you doubt that sentiment? Shame on you.

[size=-7]Actually I was being sarcastic.[/size]
 
The title of this thread is almost laughable. But, then again, so is the situation. I first became familiar with TNP during the Lex/TNP war, and honestly, I grew to like the place. There is great potential in TNP for a truly democratic government which comes *from* the people, not *at* the people.

There is one more thing the TNP constitution, in it's current form, could be used for. Armor for military vehicles. I am not insensitive to the situation which gave need to the current form of govt in TNP. Times change though. Look at the Dali situation, at one point, this action would have lead to an unavoidable quagmire of warfare. Now, it seems more or less an act to get peoples attention and say "Hey, things are messed up here, and it needs to be fixed!" Times change, and governments, if they are to stay relevant, need to change with them.

I will not come out and say that I support this resolution, I want to see more facts first. But, I definitely see why such a drastic step may be what's needed in order to set things right and resolve some of the issues currently facing the region.
 
Wait on, I was told that this Constitution would PREVENT rogue delegates from occurring!!

There were some voices from the back of the room that said this was utter shit, but that was ignored!! Oh wait, those people were banned from even contributing to the Constitutional Convention ensuring the choir was only in attendance for the sermon!!


The problem here is that the Delegate has no power!! He/she is expected to endo-tart continuously to maintain their endorsement level for nothing!! Secondly, there is a small clique in this region that seems to think they own it and that any deviation from their pre-determined version of utopia is hijacked and ridden into the ground!!
Also, the Prime Minister and all the ministers for that matter cannot do anything without someone's permission, namely the NPIA or SC!!

Its said people learn from mistakes and learn from history!! This does not appear to be the case for a select few in this region!!

This motion may not achieve anything, but it'll achieve as much as new elections!! The peopel in office are not so much the problem, the restraints on what they can do while in office are!!

A new constitution is in order, one that actually caters to the game and take the gameplay into action!!
 
:clap:

Quite well said. The In-game authority of the Delegate must be recognized, and the government must be functional.
 
Show me where in the constitution the "in game" authority of the Delegate is even affected.

It isn't.

And that is based on the statement of the NS moderators at the beginning of 2005 that off-site activities (i.e., regional forums) are outside the jurisdiction of in game activity.

That is a point that many of you continue to ignore or conviently forget.
 
It seems like a big mistake to not recognize the in-game authority of the delegate. That role is a major component of any region.

I agree that elections are not the cure all that some of the reigning elite believe them to be, but they can serve as the first step to fixing TNP. We need to break the shackles of this stagnant bureaucracy.
 
Grosseschnauzer:
Show me where in the constitution the "in game" authority of the Delegate is even affected.

It isn't.

And that is based on the statement of the NS moderators at the beginning of 2005 that off-site activities (i.e., regional forums) are outside the jurisdiction of in game activity.

That is a point that many of you continue to ignore or conviently forget.
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In-game, the Delegate is the leader of the region!! In the Constitution they have no leadership role in the region and no power!! I'd go as far as to say the SC and NPIA have more influence on regional affairs than the those elected to govern, including the Delegate!!

The sooner a concession is made in the Constitution for some sort of real role in the government by the Delegate the sooner these situations would cease to occur!! No guarantee, but it certainly would make the Delegate feel more a part of the regional government and give them more to do in the region other than be the lackey of the SC and NPIA!!

Obviously, ignoring the in-game aspects of the game we are playing has worked well for TNP in the past, Schnauzer!! Oh wait, it hasn't!! As I said, some learn from history, other choose to ignore history and walk blinkered into oblivion!! Send me a postcard when you get there!!
 
Joshua:
It seems like a big mistake to not recognize the in-game authority of the delegate. That role is a major component of any region.

I agree that elections are not the cure all that some of the reigning elite believe them to be, but they can serve as the first step to fixing TNP. We need to break the shackles of this stagnant bureaucracy.
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How does repeating the bureaucratic process break the shackles of bureacracy?! In order for anything to change changes are needed to the Constitution moreso than the nations in office and they are hogtied by the Constitution itself!!
 
Poltsamaa:
Joshua:
It seems like a big mistake to not recognize the in-game authority of the delegate. That role is a major component of any region.

I agree that elections are not the cure all that some of the reigning elite believe them to be, but they can serve as the first step to fixing TNP. We need to break the shackles of this stagnant bureaucracy.
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How does repeating the bureaucratic process break the shackles of bureacracy?! In order for anything to change changes are needed to the Constitution moreso than the nations in office and they are hogtied by the Constitution itself!!
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Will those changes occur with the current government that is in power?
 
Grosseschnauzer:
Show me where in the constitution the "in game" authority of the Delegate is even affected.

It isn't.

And that is based on the statement of the NS moderators at the beginning of 2005 that off-site activities (i.e., regional forums) are outside the jurisdiction of in game activity.

That is a point that many of you continue to ignore or conviently forget.
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"In game" can mean alot. To alot of people, these forums *are* the game. Actual NS game play consists of answering an issue, or voting on a UN resolution.

Since the 'in game" authority of the Del is not effected by this, as you say, then if the idea behind robbing the Del of Chief Exec status is to prevent rogues, it *will not* accomplish that. Nothing will.

You place your bets, and roll your dice.

Having a figurehead Delegate is, IMHO asking for disgruntlement. Tarting and holding the highest NS position in one of the largest regions in the game, yet ya log onto the forum, and what do you have to show for it? Not much. This may sound silly, but it's true that in the end, it's about job satisfaction.

If a delegate is going to go rogue in a feeder, they're gonna do it. Period. It doesn't matter a hill of cow crap what the constitution says or doesn't say.

I also agree that elections alone are not the answer. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. A comprehensive reform is clearly needed, the question is, how to go about doing it. Possibly the current RA system can bring about the changes via amending (removing 3058400854083 pages of) the current constitution. If not, then something more dramatic, such as this, may be what needs to be done.
 
Having a figurehead Delegate is, IMHO asking for disgruntlement. Tarting and holding the highest NS position in one of the largest regions in the game, yet ya log onto the forum, and what do you have to show for it? Not much. This may sound silly, but it's true that in the end, it's about job satisfaction
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SD, it depends who you elect as delegate. I served as delegate under that system quite happily, so have many others. Even Dalimbar has not given this as the reason why he has gone rogue. He has not once suggested that it was a desire for personal power that pushed him to go rogue.

Besides which, as I am sure all the recent delegates of TNP will tell you, the delegate is not without respect or authority in the region, even if constitutionally their powers are limited. Every cabinet I have been a part of has had input from the delegate and consulted with the delegate. They have to - the power to banject rests soley in the hands of the delegate, who needs to be consulted.
 
[
SD, it depends who you elect as delegate. I served as delegate under that system quite happily, so have many others. Even Dalimbar has not given this as the reason why he has gone rogue. He has not once suggested that it was a desire for personal power that pushed him to go rogue.
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You do have a point, however, it is my understanding {please correct me if I am wrong} that you participated in the genesis of the current system. So it only stands to reason you would not have qualms with it when serving as Delegate. The last part of your statement further illustrates my point that if a Del wants to go rogue, he's going to, regardless of what system is in place, so why not give him/her more constitutional authority?

I do not agree with Dali's actions, but in doing what he did, regardless of intent, he brought attention to issues that people have been concerned about for a while. Even the worst of situations has it's upsides, though they may or may not always be self evident. Most seem to agree that the current system needs to be streamlined. I've tried reading the constitution several times, in the end I only could sigh and decide to wait for the movie to come out.

A streamlined government gets more done, is more active, less likely to be overwhelmed, and is more citizen friendly. A good way to do this is with an empowered (but not overly so) executive. Make sure the RA and courts have their due checks and balances, of course. A strong executive can and probably would go a fair bit of the way to proving a more streamlined governmental system.
 
Soigacas:
So, this is a Total Recall?
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Boo! *lobs a tomato*

I think the point is that if you corner the Delegate into having little official power, if they feel disgruntled by the current situation, they are more likely to go rogue. Essentially, it's a game of appeasement. There is no guarantee that a delegate won't go rogue, but you can take steps to try to minimize those chances. After all, go pick up a psych/sociology textbook, and you'll see that empowered people are happy people. And perhaps empowerment in-game and de jure neutering on the forums is not good enough.

As a sidenote, I disagree vehemently with the people saying "meet the new boss, same as the old boss". Our citizens are not homogeneous. We have different viewpoints. The fact that those of you saying that carry RA badges is testament to the fact. We're going to have elections soon. Run. Make it so that you or people you support are the "new bosses". You are not neutered; democracy is not dead.

Just be wary of throwing out the baby with the bathwater. Just because you're disappointed with the government and Constitution doesn't mean that it is terrible in its entirety.
 
As a sidenote, I disagree vehemently with the people saying "meet the new boss, same as the old boss". Our citizens are not homogeneous. We have different viewpoints. The fact that those of you saying that carry RA badges is testament to the fact. We're going to have elections soon. Run. Make it so that you or people you support are the "new bosses". You are not neutered; democracy is not dead.
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Hehe, I didn't mean to imply that we all have the same viewpoints, what I mean by that statement in this context, is that merely holding new elections, without more comprehensive constitutional reform, is eventually going to lead to this same situation. To affect lasting change, we need to go deeper than changing the people who are currently holding positions. The current situation is a symptom, not the illness. To correct the illness, we need to fashion a more simple, people oriented government. The rough draft constitution you wrote, MO, is the very sort of thing that we need.
 
Sovereign Dixie:
Hehe, I didn't mean to imply that we all have the same viewpoints, what I mean by that statement in this context, is that merely holding new elections, without more comprehensive constitutional reform, is eventually going to lead to this same situation. To affect lasting change, we need to go deeper than changing the people who are currently holding positions. The current situation is a symptom, not the illness. To correct the illness, we need to fashion a more simple, people oriented government. The rough draft constitution you wrote, MO, is the very sort of thing that we need.
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^ this!!
 
Grosseschnauzer:
Show me where in the constitution the "in game" authority of the Delegate is even affected.

It isn't.

And that is based on the statement of the NS moderators at the beginning of 2005 that off-site activities (i.e., regional forums) are outside the jurisdiction of in game activity.

That is a point that many of you continue to ignore or conviently forget.
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And what YOU forget, Herr G, is that off-game authority has little to no effect on the game-related powers of the delegate. You put your fingers in your ears and yelled "LALALALALALALA OOFFFLALALALALALA SCARY MONKEY WITH PURPLE KNICKERS OOOGGOGOGOGLALALALALALALALALA!" and then this happens.

That is a point that you continue to ignore or convenienttly forget.
 
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