Official Declaration of Support

Blue Wolf II

Blue Wolf II

A Wolf Most Blue
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TNP Nation
Blue_Wolf_II
Greetings Comrades of The North,

It saddens us to see The North decline to such a state as it has. The North has a proud history, and tradition, but it also seen its fair share of turmoil and trouble. But, these obstacles should empower us and make us stronger collectively as a region.

A fellow member of the elected government recently made a tough call, a decision that he felt was in the best interest of our region and its inhabitants. The North has slowly become victim of apathy and a sluggish bureaucracy that has slowly been killing off activity. Regional activity is at the heart of survival for any region, without activity you have nothing.

The tough question is: how we do find the balance between democracy and having an efficient government while also encouraging activity from our members? Out current system has been unable to answer this question.

As such, I, Blue Wolf II, the Ministry of Culture and Education, and Joshua, my Deputy Minister, feel Delegate Dalimbar's actions are The North’s best hope for fixing the problems here and setting us back on the right track. We at the MiniCult therefore back his actions wholeheartedly. We need an individual who is willing to make those tough decisions in order to fix our home and we believe Comrade Dalimbar is just the person for the job.

The MiniCult hopes others will join us in supporting Dalimbar so that we can get The North back on task and set the course for a brighter future. Long live The North!

Sincerely,

Blue Wolf II
Minister of Culture and Education

Joshua
Deputy Minister of Culture and Education
 
This is an interesting turn of events.

Frankly, I'd just like to see someone show some leadership to help restore TNP from this malaise.

Why did you decided to declare your support for Dali at this time ? Did you support his actions from the start, but waited to see how things would play out ? Or did your opinion develop? Or were there discussions that convinced you that this is the right path?

I'm really just curious - the process behind the decision.

BTW, I like the Procol Harum lyric in your sig, I just noticed it.
 
I, personally, have always supported the ideals of Comrade Dalimbar and pledged my allegiance, my sword, to him personally a very long time ago. Upon speaking with my Deputy, Joshua, we realized that we had the same viewpoint. It was his idea to publicly pledge the MiniCult's support of Comrade Dali and I am behind it completely.

The North is infected, it's been slowly dieing ever since Stars of Sky wrestled back control of the region from Cathyy and her band. One could even say it's been infected since before the days of UPS Rail and Great Bight. A change is needed, but there are elements of this current government who are too stubborn to accept these facts and stick by long expired ideology that failed us long ago. His actions, and his methods, although appearing to be rash, are needed to save The North from these over-bearing hardliners.
 
I wasn't sure if I agreed with the actions that our UN Delegate, Dalimbar had taken. I knew change was sorely needed in TNP, and that things were becoming stagnant and non-productive. I wrestled with my duty to the government and my fellow TNPers. I decided finally that Dalimbar was our best hope for change here, and was the catalyst we needed to kick start these changes.

I do not want our democracy to be destroyed. But, we need to strike a balance between democracy and having an active and lively region that people will take part in. I started losing interest in the forum after the Mesian trial. I started to feel like nothing was happening, proposed changes were taking forever to implement, and the forum just seemed way to quiet.

And Mesian's trial in TNP made me feel like there was an elite who was still calling the shots. I also felt like he was a scapegoat, and we never really dealt with the real problems that caused that whole issue. Instead we appointed someone new to head the NPIA and went on our merry way. I have nothing against Flemingovia.

But, I felt like that situation was indicative of a bigger problem that had been going on for sometime.

And thats why I think Dalimbar is the right person to support. He made a tough call, and realized many the samethings many of us are realizing now. TNP is in trouble and needs fixing. We need someone who can take action and make tough calls.

I hope that helps answer those questions.
 
A couple of questions for the Ministry of Culture and Education:

Will you support scheduled elections according to the Constitution for a new cabinet and new delegate?

Do you believe Dalimbar should step down as delegate and handover the position to the new elected delegate?
 
Ator People:
A couple of questions for the Ministry of Culture and Education:

Will you support scheduled elections according to the Constitution for a new cabinet and new delegate?

Do you believe Dalimbar should step down as delegate and handover the position to the new elected delegate?
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I think for now Dalimbar should stay in his position as UN Delegate. Before we hold elections for UN Delegate and the various ministers, we need to sort out our affairs and figure out how we can fix our region. By that I mean:

1) Streamline and make the government more effective. Part of this will be re-examining the constitution and legal code for TNP.

2) I have started to develop a sense that some people in this region would rather use other members as scapegoats rather then tackle the issues facing our proud region (Mesian, and now Dalimbar). Those are the two I can most recently remember.

3) Given that the current government has done pretty much nothing to sort out the current mess going on in our region, that does not instill me with much faith in my fellow government members.

If we can sort through these issues and others then I will fully support elections. But, we need to fix our region and government before we hold elections.

Granted I haven't been active the last month or so, but that has greatly been to the lack of anything happening on the forum and in the region. I was soured by the governments handling of the Mesian trial and just the general attitude of folks on a variety of matters. But, I am back and ready to make a difference again.
 
I do not support the scheduled elections. It has become abundantly clear to me that this government and this Constitution have failed our region entirely. To have an election under its stiffening grip would be impractical and useless as it is part of the problem, not the solution. Instead of an election we should be deciding how best to reform our government so that is more inclusive and active. This current Constitution of the Blue Government has had years to prove itself and yet all it has brought upon us is misery. I support Comrade Dalimbar and believe that he should not step down, for the sake of the region and everyone in it, until a more suitable order has been established for our home.
 
Should I take it then that you and Joshua have resigned? If so, I'll be mire than glad o re-mask you accordingly. I don' believe that either of you can, in good faith pretend to remain in office under a governmental system that you oppose.
 
Grosseschnauzer:
Should I take it then that you and Joshua have resigned? If so, I'll be mire than glad o re-mask you accordingly. I don' believe that either of you can, in good faith pretend to remain in office under a governmental system that you oppose.
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Oh, come off it, Gross.
 
Grosseschnauzer:
Should I take it then that you and Joshua have resigned?  If so, I'll be mire than glad o re-mask you accordingly. I don' believe that either of you can, in good faith pretend to remain in office under a governmental system that you oppose.
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I am not resigning. And Grosse I bet you would be glad to remask us as that would make it easier to temporarily fill our positions with a more favorable appointment?

So, I have no plans on resigning. Blue Wolf II was elected as MoCE by our 'democracy' and I was his appointee. Therefore I plan to stay on as Deputy MoCE.

I ask how can others serve in good faith in their governmental positions while they watch TNP degrade more and more as time goes on? Sitting by and taking no action to fix our beloved home. We in the government have a duty to serve the region and the people here.

If you do not have the good conscience to speak up and disagree when you feel it is the right time, then how can you serve in good faith to the people who elected you into the government? I feel I am doing my duty by speaking up in hopes that we can fix our government and region.

Grosse if you truly support democracy like you appear to, then you need to support and encourage our right to disagree with the government and oppose what we choose to. I am not taking arms up against my home or government. I am merely using the written word in a relatively peaceful manner to hopefully encourage and achieve change.

Oh, come off it, Gross.
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New Kervoskia thank you for the statement of support. ^_^
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As I have stated many of our problems come from the overly lengthy constitution and legal code of this region. And naturally our government is a product of these two things. As this logically makes sense as these two entities would inform and dictate in part how the government and management of our region would work.

The legal code and constitution need to be refined and shortened. They need to be more nimble and responsive to the needs of the region and its inhabitants. Until we do this any government we elect will be more of the same, no matter how decent the people we elect.

Fix the constitution, fix the legal code and we will hopefully be on track to fixing the system and therefore be on track to a better and more active TNP that can be enjoyable once more.
 
Grosseschnauzer:
Should I take it then that you and Joshua have resigned?  If so, I'll be mire than glad o re-mask you accordingly. I don' believe that either of you can, in good faith pretend to remain in office under a governmental system that you oppose.
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:rofl:

He is so cute when he is angry!!

For the record, I neither support nor condemn Dalimbar until I know whathis plans are!! That and what high-paying job that requires no effort on my part he is willing to offer me in his government!!

Oh, its good to see your stones have finally dropped, Blue Wolf!! :lol:
 
Byard has issued a recall on me. Could someone shed light onto the legal foundation for this move? I have not threatened or used force against TNP. Nor I have sought help from anyone outside TNP. I have used the written word as my tool. I was under the impression that under our constitution I was guaranteed the right to disagreement and free speech.

The only legal foundation that I can see is that I might have broken the oath of my office. But, even that is a stretch. And why issue a recall for myself and not Blue Wolf II? Isn't the legal system supposed to be fair and level handed, and unbiased?

As a member of the government I am supposed to support democracy and freedom and act in the best interest of this region. I believe I am doing that. Sitting quietly and maintaining the status quo would do far greater harm to this region.

I did sign my name to our ministries statement of support for Dalimbar. Dalimbar did say he would not recognize the current government until we fix our region. Not recognizing a government is whole different ballgame then dissolving or overthrowing a regime. From what I can tell our government is still here, but there is growing rift between sections of the government. All government officials have the same masking, except for Dalimbar. Byard is still able to issue recalls against government officials, no matter how silly and baseless such recalls are.

I simply have recognized and voiced my displeasure with the government and constitution. How is that a punishable offense?
 
I'm confused. Is there a government, or isn't there? Has the Ministry of Culture and Education been dissolved or has its ministers' terms of office been extended?
 
I don't see anything to indicate the dissolution of the Ministry. Just the existing Minister and Deputy supporting the Delegate, nothing more.

However, I don't see much of any other action from the government, in favor of any direction. As I said, I like to see some leadership around here. As it is, the region and government are floundering and going nowhere, other than to continue the problems of inactivity. Though I am certainly pleased with the discussion opened in the RA. I'd love to contribute if the powers-that-be ever attend to my application. *grumbles* How do you expect new players to join in if you can't be bothered to address their interest in participating ? THAT is one of the problems.

That and what high-paying job that requires no effort on my part he is willing to offer me in his government!!
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Hey, I was going to apply for that job ! :lol:

Should I take it then that you and Joshua have resigned?
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I read nothing about resignations. Nor did you.
 
1. Recall has nothing to do with the legal system, other than posting a notice to seek recall in the Court forum.

2. A recall petition was issued for BW as well, on the same grounds.

3. Recall is issued pursuant to Article V, Sec. 9 of the Constitution.
 
The Constitution is the base upon which the legal system is founded. Same with the executive and the legislative systems (which recall is a part of). As such, the procedures for recall can be detailed in the constitution without the legal system per se being involved.
 
*chuckles*

In other words, without the Constitution, there is no other legal system. Therefore the Constitution is the legal system.
 
Lewis and Clark:
*chuckles*

In other words, without the Constitution, there is no other legal system. Therefore the Constitution is the legal system.
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I think the legal system means the judicial system. Therefore, the Constitution is not the judicial system, but the judiciary is only a branch of government. So the point was that a recall does not have anything to do with the judiciary.
 
I understand what is being said, but you cannot separate it from the Constitution. The Constitution empowers the Judicary and therefore the law. The law is nothing without the Constitution. They are one in the same.

If you claim the legal system is separate from the Constitution, then there is no point in having a Constitution.
 
Speaking of recalls allow me to chime in on that subject. Now, I have no problem with being recalled, if that's indeed what the people want, after all, I myself have signed the petition. That's all fine and good but we are wasting time filling such unimportant proceedings. The government is effectively broken, we have no way to enforce our will upon the region anymore and the only reason why our forum's link even remains in the World Fact Book is because of Comrade Dalimbar's own good grace. In the scheme of things about a million other issues seem more urgent and important than recalling some faithless Minister and his duty. Perhaps someone should get on them.
 
The law is the Constitution (and the legal code, and precedent, etc.). The legal system is the system emplaced to administer the law. The law creates, shapes, and directs the legal system, but is not the legal system, any more than the legal system is the law.
 
The constitution informs the legal system and to some degree dictates how it must operate. Without a constitution we have no judiciary or judicial system.

Why are we wasting time recalling individuals who have the courage to speak up when the time calls for and obviously care deeply as to what happens to their home? When there are more pressing matters that need to be tackled.

How can you punish government members for disagreeing and speaking up? Part of your oath Byars is to protect our freedoms one of those being freedom of speech. How can you do this in good conscience?
 
You guys didn't really think the collective would let you speak out against them without retaliation, did you?!

This is the way of TNP!! Don't fix anything, don't change anything, just turf out those that dare challenge the all encompassing morass that is the Constitution and those few that guard it!!

Treat the symptoms rather than seek a cure for the disease!!
 
You are guaranteed a right to free speech, Joshua - nowhere are you guaranteed immunity from any possible negative effects of that speech. Thats something that needs to be considered beforehand, not complained about after the fact.

And what good does it do to give antibiotics to someone in septic shock, Polts? Get the heart pumping and the air moving again, then start treating the disease. Although the current sentiment seems to lean more toward "Let them die, and then we'll find a new patient to proclaim the health of."
 
I daresay that the region is plugging along - this government is what is lying in the ICU. Some folks worked too hard and too long to just say "Eh, what the hell." and let it die. You may not agree that it's worth saving, and that's not something I have any reasonable anticipation of changing. But I will not just let it go. Let its opponents mock it, let them mock me, I will not let it go.
 
You aren't interested in saving the region, only yourself and your precious Constitution!! Don't pretend you are putting the region first!! The dull and dreary environment the Constitution and those who wield it has created is what is causing the problems!!

Saving the region requires reinvigoration of the region, not stamping out any avenue for change in the region!!
 
There were avenues for change, Polts. Those avenues were ignored by the tl;dr crowd. So what we have now is a number of people who are clamoring for a Reader's Digest version of government, and that is exactly what they are going to get. They think it will be easier, and it will. But I fear the people who will run that government, and the people who run this one, have divergent ideas of what, exactly the role of government is.

Now, maybe I'm way the hell off base. Maybe this will be the best damned thing ever to happen to TNP, and I'll doff my hat and dig into my humble pie if it turns out to be so. But, like the NPD ultimatum, there is no part of me that believes that to be the case right now.
 
Don't bring the NPD in. I am not confident that you can appear these events to the debacle of the NPD. I think that is a stretch at the moment.

Punishment for disagreement and engaging in our right to speak our minds seems like a grave in justice especially from folks who seem to care so much for legality and our beloved constitution/legal code.

I fail to see how we broke our oath that we took upon entering the government or how breached the constitution/legal code.

Removing Blue Wolf II and myself from office will serve as nothing but as a brief distraction for folks. It will not foster real change or fix any of the problems ailing our region. We need real conversations, open and honest conversations to fix our problems. We need to look at our region in an honest and open light to determine what the problems are and what the root of those problems are.
 
Yes, you said so in the recall petition. However, when a member of the government publically endorses the actions of someone who effectively rejects that entire government, it might be that that person should no longer be part of that government. Just sayin'.

I can understand that it's a little confusing - I mean, I did seek to enact some small measure of change by using the existing system, rather than tossing out the whole damn thing and starting over. That kind of thing went out of style some time ago.

And no matter how many times you cry "we're being punished for speaking freely", it won't turn true. Words have meaning, and it is the meaning of those words that you are being held accountable for, not the act of speaking them. If you were not prepared to do so, perhaps you should not have said them.
 
Byard,

I want to apologize for posting in the recall thread of Blue Wolf II as that was the wrong spot to voice my opinions. I was out of line on that.

Now, onto the post you just made. Blue Wolf II was elected into office and apart of the oath of office is protect our freedoms and the democracy of TNP. If we kept going along with the status quo, and supporting a document that was causing many of the regions issues then we would be failing to do our jobs. The constitution is well intention as is the legal code.

But, good intentions are not enough. The documents and systems that basically dictate how we run and manage the region need to provide for greater freedom and flexibility. They need to be less cumbersome and wordy.

Let us have the ability to be humble enough to realize the current system is not working and is hurting regional activity. If we can do that, then we can start having real conversations that will lead to real solutions for TNP.
 
I agree that the system needs change - I've never said that it is perfect. However, it's a damn sight better than a lot of things we could have (and have had), and my chagrin does not stem from the fact that change is needed or that people are championing change, but that, rather than attempting to change the system, it was tossed out wholesale, and that this is being lauded. To quote terry Pratchett,

Don't put your trust in revolutions. They always come around again. That's why they're called revolutions.
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I will point out, though, that I don't really see why it is the system that is hurting regional activity. Have we, in some fashion, made it hard to log into this forum? Is there something about an eight-line constitution that will suddenly make someone other than the twenty-or-so of us regulars actually start giving a damn? Have we mocked and denigrated those who would try to join our community*? Is there an explosion of activity in NS as a whole that I'm just missing out on?




*With the exception of Cadre Island, but come on.
 
Byardkuria:
I agree that the system needs change - I've never said that it is perfect. However, it's a damn sight better than a lot of things we could have (and have had), and my chagrin does not stem from the fact that change is needed or that people are championing change, but that, rather than attempting to change the system, it was tossed out wholesale, and that this is being lauded. To quote terry Pratchett,

Don't put your trust in revolutions. They always come around again. That's why they're called revolutions.
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I will point out, though, that I don't really see why it is the system that is hurting regional activity. Have we, in some fashion, made it hard to log into this forum? Is there something about an eight-line constitution that will suddenly make someone other than the twenty-or-so of us regulars actually start giving a damn? Have we mocked and denigrated those who would try to join our community*? Is there an explosion of activity in NS as a whole that I'm just missing out on?




*With the exception of Cadre Island, but come on.
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Simple fact is that the constitution is hurting activity. And I am not alone in having this opinion. One example that comes to mind is the length of time that approving an RA application takes and the re-masking of approved nations. Gaspo works hard, and this is not a jab at his ability to do his job.

Being in the RA is essentially a nations ticket to being able to be more involved in TNP. The longer it takes to be accepted and re-masked the less likely a nation is to stay involved in TNP.

You are right that logging in is easy. Making sure nations keep logging in and hopefully become involved is the real trick and it is real difficult to do that when you are beholden to a rigid and cumbersome document.
 
Byardkuria, you say this government is in the ICU. It's been dying and losing rigor for a long time now. Well, cancer just doesn't pop out of nowhere. It has a cause. And the cancer that's keeping this government in the ICU is all around you. Now the ole' gal is terminal and sometimes rather than pumping it full of chemicals to keep her breathing, you have to let her rest and live out the rest of her days in peace. It's done that and now we're making the funeral arrangements.
 
New Kervoskia:
Byardkuria, you say this government is in the ICU. It's been dying and losing rigor for a long time now. Well, cancer just doesn't pop out of nowhere. It has a cause. And the cancer that's keeping this government in the ICU is all around you. Now the ole' gal is terminal and sometimes rather than pumping it full of chemicals to keep her breathing, you have to let her rest and live out the rest of her days in peace. It's done that and now we're making the funeral arrangements.
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One positive thing currently going on is the discussion of radical changes to our system of governance, and secondly I hope that with elections we can get fresh faces into the government and hopefully then we can get some of these changes in place.
 
Byardkuria:
You are guaranteed a right to free speech, Joshua - nowhere are you guaranteed immunity from any possible negative effects of that speech. Thats something that needs to be considered beforehand, not complained about after the fact.

And what good does it do to give antibiotics to someone in septic shock, Polts? Get the heart pumping and the air moving again, then start treating the disease. Although the current sentiment seems to lean more toward "Let them die, and then we'll find a new patient to proclaim the health of."
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That is a load of hooey, Byard. You are misusing your power in an attempt to silence statements of conscience by two members of your government.

Congratulations on taking the same measures as Germany in WWII, Italy in WWII and the Soviet Union in WWII up to the day Joseph Stalin died. Stalin didn't go through the political nicety of a recall or trial, he killed those who opposed him or sent them to forced labour camps in Siberia.

It is utterly appalling and Machiavellian in the extreme what I see here.

Also...

...I am, as a Gryphon, thoroughly ashamed of Grosseschnauzer. To limit or force parse statements of opposition and interpret them as "Letters of Resignation" is un-Gryphonnic in the extreme. I expect Sir Grosse to recall his oath, especially the part about helping any fellow Gryphon who strays, back onto the path of virtuous behavior.

I will be posting an official reaction from TWP government today or tomorrow.

Good luck to you all.

Grand Duke Sir Geoffrey A. Gosford, KOGC
Master Knight
Foreign Minister of the West Pacific
 
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