WotN Break Ties with LWU!

[Darkesia]

Blue Wolf, center, walks with former Lone Wolves General Scardino, far right,
after a meeting between WotN and LWU.

In a move that was brought on by overwhelming pressure from the legitimate government of The North Pacific, The Wolves officially cut their allegiances from the raider region of Lone Wolves United. The Lone Wolves, who originally created the idea of the Wolves of the North, the only raiding organization currently residing in a feeder, accepted the decision with much regret but vowed to keep open diplomatic relations with the organization they once referred to as "the Lone Wolves North".

Blue Wolf II, who is the leader of the Lone Wolves United and also one of the founding members of The Wolves of the North, had this comment: "It's very clear that [WotN] can't continue to associate with the LWU without problems for both groups". Controversy recently erupted in The North when the Lone Wolves announced the launch of WotN under its banner, setting of a firestorm of legal and diplomatic threats and accusations.

Even with the announcement many members of the Cabinet still express grave doubts as to whether a raider organization such as the Wolves can legally exist; arguing that to allow such a thing would show The North as weak. Director Tresville of the North Pacific Intelligence Agency even went so far as to argue the Wolves very existence would be enough to kick off a civil war within the region. Darkesia, the Wolves Director of Exotic Relations, had this comment in the groups defense, "We are exercising our right to assemble" and later went on to comment that this right was protected by the Constitution.

North Pacific Army members line up and report for duty. Key members of the NPA have
suggested that The North can never have a raider army in the region so long as the NPA remains defender.

Following the announcement of independence, members of The Wolves once again articulated their want for a good and beneficial relationship with The North Pacific government. What happens next seems to be entirely on the government's shoulders.

 

[OPArsenal]

FAIL

Now this group has even less of a purpose. reason to exist.

EDIT: Clarified.

 

[Blue Wolf II]

Fail again!

The Wolves only have one main, dominating purpose on which it was founded solely on: to raid. Suggesting anything to the contrary is fatal and will be met with a wall of crippling and demoralizing mockery.

 

[Flemingovia]

Nice photo of you, BW, but I need to tell you that you can now buy discreet little headphones for your ipod that fit neatly into the ear.

Your headphones are SO 1980s.

 

[Blue Wolf II]

The retro look is making a come back, plus I got them cheep down the street at a yard sale.

 

[OPArsenal]

Fail again!

The Wolves only have one main, dominating purpose on which it was founded solely on: to raid. Suggesting anything to the contrary is fatal and will be met with a wall of crippling and demoralizing mockery.

...

Good argument, there, chappie.

Why do you want this to happen again?

 

[Haor Chall]

Good argument, there, chappie.

Why do you want this to happen again?

Because as feederites we should dominate all others.

 

[Blue Wolf II]

See? HC gets it.

 

[OPArsenal]

Because as feederites we should dominate all others.

But this is the epitome of Userite agression!

By their very nature, Userites wish to deprive the Pacifics of that which they value above all else: the best and brightest minds of the regions.

Thanks for the response, HC. Moar dericious Francoism.

 

[Blue Wolf II]

You’re completely correct, Wolves of the North is depriving The North of all of its great minds by making sure those minds and well as other players who would normally leave stay in the region. The horror! Quickly, let us ship those players off to user created regions; that would much more Francoistic of us.

 

[Darkesia]

Francoism benefits all feeders as does the practice of Pacific Orthodoxy.




TNP's military is and has been decidedly defender oriented. That has been made crystal clear by the many loyal TNP citizens who have voiced their concerns. What happens to those TNP players/members/nations who wish to attack as well as to parry? Are they forced to engage in that which TNPers despise - duality? Or worse, forced completely out into the wastelands of userite regions? While I am grateful for those find their way to Mother Pacific, I am equally disturbed by the high number who gather in the wasteland in tiny, hopeless groups where their talents wither and their interest dies.

TNP can remain a defender oriented region with pride and still host an assemblage of players/members/nations who have an interest in military activity and aggression. If the soverign government of TNP has ultimate control of this assemblage, it can do no harm to the region or it's residents.

And, would it not be superior military strategy if a defensive force like the NPA could hold and defend a userite victim of invasion while an internal aggressive force sought out the enemy and let them reap what they sewed? Who could stand against such a strong feeder? Surely no raider group currently in existence.

 

[Emperor Matthuis]

So who is actually running the WOTN then?

 

[Darkesia]

Currently Blue Wolf, an RA in TNP, is running the day to day operations of WotN. This is by virtue of the organization being his brainchild. Leadership of the organization is not set in stone.

 

[Upper Kirby]

So who is actually running the WOTN then?

The same who runs LWU. News is spelled s-h-i-l-l.

 

[Darkesia]

*Darkesia sighs...

TNP is emotionally exhausting.

 

[TAO]

Duality is the real problem TAO sees in denying the Wolves an opportunity at Feeder politics. And worse ... a removal to userite regions, as others have said. Either way, raiders are denied chances of becoming feeder-regulated and feeder-integrated powers who give of themselves for the good of the region. So we badger and bait some of the most talented players into taking their time and talents to the nether-regions to organize against us. Is that really intelligent on our part as feeders?

Not ALL raiding activity is BAD! Stagnation is a more dangerous enemy in this game. Some time back, Limitless came up with an idea about raiding founderless regions to either [1] wipe them out and force the occupants to move to a live region or push them into creating a new region with a founder ... breathing new life into the game in the process. The game is filled with dead regions and stagnant members. TAO would totally support this kind of activity or any other raider activity that strengthens and movitivates the game. A well-maintained and regulated raiders' club in any feeder could make a positive difference for that feeder.

TAO's two cents.

 

[Flemingovia]

Either way, raiders are denied chances of becoming feeder-regulated and feeder-integrated powers who give of themselves for the good of the region.

Fine. Let the South, West, East or Pacific give raiders a home.

I am tired, since the days of GReat Bight, of TNP being the playground of the world.

 

[Emperor Matthuis]

TAO, some people don't want to be active and it is a complete waste of time to try and make them. You missed the most obvious option, that they would get annoyed and leave the game.

 

[Winter Vacationers]

TAO, some people don't want to be active and it is a complete waste of time to try and make them. You missed the most obvious option, that they would get annoyed and leave the game.

But, if they are really that inactive, would it make any difference whether or not they left the game? I agree that some people won't be active no matter what, but, IMHO, a raid MIGHT shake up some borderline people enough to make them more active.

 

[Blanisti]

WoTN? LWU? I'm lost at the title!

 

[Blue Wolf II]

LWU = Lone Wolves United; a raider region under the same name

WotN= Wolves of the North; a new created raider group operating within The North Pacific (TNP).

Don't try to figure out what raiding is on your own, it will only confuse you, instead see the following explanation in the Nationstates FQA [CLICKY]

Edit: look under "Can I invade other people's regions?".

 

[TAO]

Either way, raiders are denied chances of becoming feeder-regulated and feeder-integrated powers who give of themselves for the good of the region.

Fine. Let the South, West, East or Pacific give raiders a home.

I am tired, since the days of GReat Bight, of TNP being the playground of the world.

You confuse take-over attempts from others as raider attempts. You ARE tired.


TAO has come to think that all of you who decry the outrages of raiders are secretly raider supporters who understand that defenders without raiders are like cowboys without indians, or Yankees without Confederates. The issue you haven't seem to overcome yet is this one: in the conflicts of cowboys and indians or in the American conflict of North v South, who were the good guys? The same question can be asked of defenders v raiders and the answer will be the same ... a lame statement of moral superiority beginning with the words "My opinion ...".

Just come out and say it ... you LIKE the drama generated by playing good cop/bad cop.

 

[mr_sniffles]

You confuse take-over attempts from others as raider attempts.  You ARE tired. 


TAO has come to think that all of you who decry the outrages of raiders are secretly raider supporters who understand that defenders without raiders are like cowboys without indians, or Yankees without Confederates.  The issue you haven't seem to overcome yet is this one: in the conflicts of cowboys and indians or in the American conflict of North v South, who were the good guys?  The same question can be asked of defenders v raiders and the answer will be the same ... a lame statement of moral superiority beginning with the words "My opinion ...".

Just come out and say it ... you LIKE the drama generated by playing good cop/bad cop.

QFT!!!


(Wait for temples to be built in your honour!)

 

[Emperor Matthuis]

I am in full support of the invader, defender game, having created regions doing both. I have no problem with them playing the game against each other and I think that it makes the game a lot of interesting. However, I do not want an invader group moving uninvited into The North Pacific and begin invading regions from it. There is a difference TAO between people's opinions on invading/defending and it happening from our region.

 

[Darkesia]

Why not simply declare that people need a license to assemble? That way your government can approve any sub groups that want to form and you can keep out invaders without needing to have the stones to come out and say you accept only defender oriented groups. Thos pesky CommRangers and the inactive Knight group whose name I can't recall could be "grandfathered" in with some nice long verbage.


Truthfully, the least hypocritical thing you can do is to post THIS IS A DEFENDER ONLY REGION in big red letter on the RMB and kick out any raiders you find. I'm pretty sure that would keep Dali busy and free of boredom. And the added bonus is that you don't really have to kick out all those RA members that are also raiders because you can pretend you didn't know. Well, except for BW and probably me, since we belong to WotN openly.

Yes, I'm being sarcastic, but I'm also being completely honest.

Why do you make everything so gut wrenchingly hard on yourselves and everyone?

Surprise! The line between old-school defending/invading has blured and no longer exists. Surprise! People want to be able to play a game without having some holier-than-thou group of people judging their RL based on that game. Surprise! After 4 or more years, the game has evolved.

Someone moved your cheese.

 

[Winter Vacationers]

My cheese? Oh Noes!

I have mixed feelings about this. On one hand, a raider group seems incompatible with mainstream TNP philosophy, and I agree with the TNP old-timers on this. But, deep down, my "fun-loving" side can see possiblilities in having a group of "outlaw" canines running wild in the region.

 

[mr_sniffles]

Why not simply declare that people need a license to assemble? That way your government can approve any sub groups that want to form and you can keep out invaders without needing to have the stones to come out and say you accept only defender oriented groups. Thos pesky CommRangers and the inactive Knight group whose name I can't recall could be "grandfathered" in with some nice long verbage.


Truthfully, the least hypocritical thing you can do is to post THIS IS A DEFENDER ONLY REGION in big red letter on the RMB and kick out any raiders you find. I'm pretty sure that would keep Dali busy and free of boredom. And the added bonus is that you don't really have to kick out all those RA members that are also raiders because you can pretend you didn't know. Well, except for BW and probably me, since we belong to WotN openly.

Yes, I'm being sarcastic, but I'm also being completely honest.

Why do you make everything so gut wrenchingly hard on yourselves and everyone?

Surprise! The line between old-school defending/invading has blured and no longer exists. Surprise! People want to be able to play a game without having some holier-than-thou group of people judging their RL based on that game. Surprise! After 4 or more years, the game has evolved.

Someone moved your cheese.

Here here!

 

[Scardino]

As a fairly well known raider and with some knowledge of feeder politics in mind, this is my two thousand dollars.

Though it is not by any means illegal (from what I have seen in the constitution) for the WotN to host their own forum, I do feel that it may be in poor taste. The WotN should acknowledge and respect the TNP government. WotN should register and actively participate on TNP's forum and should encourage members to register and be active in the region. So long as they are providing constructive participation in the region and its community rather than working to create a ravine between the two sects, they should be allowed to invade other regions, even if as nothing more than an independent special interest club, so long as it does not target TNP's allies. Should they, however, attack one of TNP's allies, they should be destroyed without anything resembling a trace of mercy. Insubordination and subversion should not to be tolerated.

 

[Monte Ozarka]

But to allow that to happen openly would be seen by many (outside the region) as harboring 'dem damn'd durty raiders, at best, or as aiding and abetting them by sheltering them under rights of full TNP citizens, at worst.

Personally, it is my opinion that if one was to base a raider cell out of TNP, it should be done without the regional government's explicit or implicit allowance. Official nonrecognition/ignorance allows for plausible denial publicly, while the government can monitor/act against/with such a cell covertly, if the occasion required. From a political standpoint, it might even allow an informal, under-the-desk symbiotic relationship to develop between the TNP government and such unrecognized entities that may be useful to exploit for political leverage against a third party.

Whatever. My opinion is that flaunting the WotN label in the seat of the TNP government is silly and may be enough to get one metaphorically shot. Just be sneaky like everyone else.

 

[Scardino]

All of the feeder regions are letting invaders maintain membership. All of them are allowing them membership and not putting them on trial for invading.

That said, any TNP-based invader-minded group would do nothing but keep players that would normally move to a userite region within TNP where they can contribute. I'm not sure what the WotN have done so far but I think they would be shooting themselves in the foot if they insisted on using their own forum rather than contributing to TNP's forum. The last thing that needs to happen is have two seperate groups using two seperate forums in TNP again.

In closing, there aren't any true nationalist defenders left to really give a damn and even if they do... who cares?


You're a feeder. Grow some balls.

 

[mr_sniffles]

In closing, there aren't any true nationalist defenders left to really give a damn and even if they do... who cares?

Man, I wish it was so.

You're a feeder. Grow some balls.

Nuff said.

 

[Scardino]

This isn't even asking you to raid. It's asking you to let raiders who would otherwise go to another region stay in TNP. If everyone in NationStates were such frightened sheep who trembled at the thought of someone being dissatisfied with what they did, this game would suck even worse than it does already. For being a region of over 4,000 nations and extremely high regional power, you people are pretty damned cowardly.

 

[Knockavale]

For being a region of over 4,000 nations and extremely high regional power, you people are pretty damned cowardly.

And rather ineffective in the majority of cases. You guys have some much power and yet you as a region have very little effect on the majority of the game, "Userite" regions such as Gatesville, Nasicournia and even The DEN have more of an effect on the game on a daily basis.

I really cant understand this "feederite" snobbery, in terms of game wide importance to the defender/invader game you guys barely make a ripple. Its odd for me to say this but the Pacific is the only feeder that throws its weight around even if it hasnt lately.

Let LWU have thier recruiting scheme...i mean let the WOTN in it might actually make this feeder(and the others) stop boring the arse off the rest of the game.

 

[Upper Kirby]

You're a dork. Who cares what a dork thinks? I don't.

 

[Flemingovia]

My goodness, those who support this idea really seem to be trying the charm offensive, don't they?

Except they have no charm, and are just offensive.

 

[Monte Ozarka]

For being a region of over 4,000 nations and extremely high regional power, you people are pretty damned cowardly.

And rather ineffective in the majority of cases. You guys have some much power and yet you as a region have very little effect on the majority of the game, "Userite" regions such as Gatesville, Nasicournia and even The DEN have more of an effect on the game on a daily basis.

I really cant understand this "feederite" snobbery, in terms of game wide importance to the defender/invader game you guys barely make a ripple. Its odd for me to say this but the Pacific is the only feeder that throws its weight around even if it hasnt lately.

Let LWU have thier recruiting scheme...i mean let the WOTN in it might actually make this feeder(and the others) stop boring the arse off the rest of the game.

Everything you said is true.

Despite that, the feeders are a very different beast with their own unique set of problems. And though you say that feeders like TNP have very little effect on the invading/defending game, you have to keep in mind not everyone, everywhere, at every time is interested in the invaders/defenders hooplah. The internal issues of a feeder are often more than enough to keep a government occupied.

It's not "snobbery"; it's just simply having different priorities than you.

And kudos to The Pacific/NPO/whatever-the-hell-they-are-now for coming up with a successful formula for relevance in your NS world. But a feeder such as TNP will be dominated by home-grown newbs. How many of the powerful figures in the NPO were Pacificans, born and bred? I'm not going to pull numbers out of my ass, but I would forward that there's a shit ton of them that have migrated to the Pacific from other regions during their NS playtime due to the NPO's unique playstyle and attitude. Still--that works for them, and if that's what they want and they're happy with it, good on them. TNP functions differently.

What some may consider isolationism, others consider sound internal policy. If TNP wants to join you in your games, fine. But don't tell us how to play.

 

[TAO]

My goodness, those who support this idea really seem to be trying the charm offensive, don't they?

Except they have no charm, and are just offensive.

And Upper Kirby is the most charming of all.

While TAO does understand and appreciate MO's opinion, all this does make you wonder what the fear really is.

 

[Scardino]

You guys have some much power and yet you as a region have very little effect on the majority of the game, "Userite" regions such as Gatesville, <snip> and even The DEN have more of an effect on the game on a daily basis.

In terms of real power, no, the feeders are not exactly well endowed. However, the feeders are extremely influential. Every time a nation is created it passes through one of the five feeders. That means that there is a 20% chance that the feeder that just had a regime change or the feeder that just ousted a tyrant was the one you were born into. Most people who begin NS look up to the region they were born into. Some are intimidated by the size of it and move off to a smaller region, others seek to obtain similar greatness, and still others want to see their name up there beneath the WFE. Whatever it inspires them to do, it does inspire them.

I really cant understand this "feederite" snobbery, in terms of game wide importance to the defender/invader game you guys barely make a ripple.

That is irrelevant. Feeder regions are no longer ADN puppets and need not behave as if they were. It has always been my belief that a feeder should be completely neutral. This belief has brought me to even discourage and disband attempts made by other invaders to overthrow feeders such as The South Pacific, The Pacific, and The North Pacific.

Its odd for me to say this but the Pacific is the only feeder that throws its weight around even if it hasnt lately.

See MO's post. She said it better than I ever could.

Let LWU have thier recruiting scheme...i mean let the WOTN in it might actually make this feeder(and the others) stop boring the arse off the rest of the game.

It isn't a recruiting scheme. I can't pretend to understand what goes on in BW's head but he isn't bringing members into LWU but rather keeping them in The North Pacific. This is stealing away about as many members as the Order of the Gryphons.

 

[Monte Ozarka]

My goodness, those who support this idea really seem to be trying the charm offensive, don't they?

Except they have no charm, and are just offensive.

And Upper Kirby is the most charming of all.

While TAO does understand and appreciate MO's opinion, all this does make you wonder what the fear really is.

Although to be honest, it does rather seem like you're asking a question of "Well why not?" against the rebuttal "Why should we?"

Both of them seem rather silly, and as interesting as I would find an invader org formally operating out of TNP and under the umbrella of its laws, I can understand how the status quo may be considered the most prudent course of action, giving the argument "Why should we?" a slight edge over "Why not?", unless the region were in a bona fide crisis.

"Boring" it may be, but safe.

 

[Darkesia]

And though you say that feeders like TNP have very little effect on the invading/defending game, you have to keep in mind not everyone, everywhere, at every time is interested in the invaders/defenders hooplah. The internal issues of a feeder are often more than enough to keep a government occupied.

It's not "snobbery"; it's just simply having different priorities than you.


What some may consider isolationism, others consider sound internal policy. If TNP wants to join you in your games, fine. But don't tell us how to play.

Now, I'm a bit confused. On one hand you are saying that TNP is traditionally a defender region, so it should stay that way. And on the other hand you're saying that TNP has little impact or participation in the invade/defend game and should be allowed to stay "isolated."

Seems to me you're just afraid of change.

I know this is a big step for some of you and it's difficult. But when you look at it honestly, you have been following a policy of "don't ask-don't tell" here for some time. And we Americans know how hypocritical that makes us feel. Instead of making raiders hide out in the region in order to take part in feeder politics, why not accept them for who they are?