Merging Ministries

mr_sniffles

mr_sniffles

TNPer
Art. 3, Section 2:

7) Minister of Communications.
A - The Minister shall be responsible for initiating, directing and moderating debates on subjects of Regional and national interest, such as legislative and Cabinet issues within the Regional Government, UN proposals and resolutions, and general interest discussions.
B- The Minister, in conjunction with the Prime Minister or the minister with appropriate jurisdiction, shall be responsible for the publication of the actions of the Regional Government, both within and outside of the Region.
C- The Minister, unless required for specified identifiable reasons of regional security to withhold specific material (as determined in each instance by a majority vote of the Cabinet), shall provide the publication if full of the records and minutes of Cabinet proceedings and debates. The vote of the Prime Minister and each Cabinet Minister in a Cabinet meeting shall be a matter of public record.
B) - The Minister shall encourage the Cultural and Educational arts and industries, protect The North Pacific's heritage, and advance the public information system of the Region in order to maximize their contribution to the region's awareness and social vitality.
8) Minister of Arts and Entertainment.
A - The Minister shall be responsible for moderating the Out-of-Character, Role-Playing and Games forums at the Regional off-site forums.
B - The Minister shall initiate and oversee activities and topics for the general entertainment of The North Pacific's member Nations.
9) Minister of Culture and Education.
A - The Minister shall encourage the Cultural and Educational arts and industries, protect The North Pacific's heritage, and advance the public information system of the Region in order to maximize their contribution to the region's awareness and social vitality.s]
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This is basically a shifting of responsibilities, obviously even if it was rushed to passage with a grounswell of support this would have no effect on the next MoCE coming in.

Why? Well we've been hit by elected MoCE's who just can't keep their interest for longer than a month and other than having truly original ideas being crushed by the inactivity of others, I've never been able to see the point in having the MoCE. All they really do (excluding the anomaly of Fedele's War propaganda ideas) is archiving and even then they are at the mercy of Admins.

Also the MoC has been more busy with developing a truly strong NP media system (as maintained by the legal code) than their Constitutional requirements and since then, the idea of the MoC being the moutpiece of Cabinet has been diminished by each passing day. The Prime Minister and when dealing with passing RA Cons Amend, the Speaker is much more effective with this job.

While some people (ok, just Heft) would see this as a bandaid solution remember most revolutions end in failure, progressive solutions created through success are much more lasting.
 
Given that there is a lot of support to get a university established, in which the Minister of Culture and Education would possibly play a role, I'm not sure that ahifting the MoCE responsibilities to the Minstry of Communications is particularly a good idea, if, as you say, the MoC is involved in overseeing an effective media system. That might be the argument to leave the MoC alone.

If we transform the MoCE to emphasize the "education" part of it, which really hasn't been the case, then abolishing it would be ill-considered.

From what I've understood, the strongest complaint has been with the MoAE. That is why I've proposed a review of the MoCE and MoAE to see if there should be any refinement or changes, I've not seen or heard anything that would substantiate adding to the responsibilities of the MoC.
 
Grosseschnauzer:
Given that there is a lot of support to get a university established, in which the Minister of Culture and Education would possibly play a role, I'm not sure that ahifting the MoCE responsibilities to the Minstry of Communications is particularly a good idea, if, as you say, the MoC is involved in overseeing an effective media system. That might be the argument to leave the MoC alone.

If we transform the MoCE to emphasize the "education" part of it, which really hasn't been the case, then abolishing it would be ill-considered.

From what I've understood, the strongest complaint has been with the MoAE. That is why I've proposed a review of the MoCE and MoAE to see if there should be any refinement or changes, I've not seen or heard anything that would substantiate adding to the responsibilities of the MoC.
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I've actually seen differently, the MoAE is one of the most visible ministries around as the OOC playground is as much an important feature as the delegacy. Quite simply, it's the only place where everyone can join in regardless of politics or regional affiliation.

The MoC has been relieved of its Constitutional Duties for awhile, in fact other than corralling RL concerns and a volunteer army of reporters, their job has not only been reduced but have been given a whole new mission statement. The old being a mouthpiece, the face for Cabinet, which it hasn't been as far as I can recall. It's new mission statement becomes less about representing the Cabinet but being the duty to establish regional media. Culture and Education is but one facet of media, media is not all about recent events but also events of the past. So being CNN is one thing but adding a little history channel won't hurt either. It's basically the same as what it currently does except they also accept entries about the past too.
 
I started out against this idea but, having read Mr S's proposal I can see the soundness of the idea.

Government structure should be responsive to the needs of the community. Here is the UK successive RL goverments create and merge ministries as the need arises. I think TNP should be just as responsive.

If we need a ministry (for example, for War; for newbie affairs; for economics (should the bank take off); etc etc) we should be able to create one.

For here and for now, the proposal makes sense.
 
Keep in mind a major problems has been getting higher participation in governmental affairs on the part of RA members, and would-be, could-be RA members. The MoC was always intended, as I understood it, to be a conduit for information and alerting what was originally the ranks of registered voters of matters that involved registered voters. The responsibility has never really been re-assigned, and before this proceeds, we need a consensus as to how to actively alert and encourage RA member participation. Presuming that RA members *should* be doing that on their own, especially when vptes are occuring, I don't think reflects reality very well. If the MoC isn't going to handle that communication function, then who should? And shouldb'e we enact somethig in the Constitution, Legal Code, or even RA rule to make clear who has that responsibility?

Even if we take out that duty on the part of the MoC, it does not rationalize merging the MoCE into it. I really don't want to see something that may prove to be necessary for the TNPU to be taken off the table before that can be addressed. (I'm not pre-supposing how the TNPU will be operated, but for the moment a Ministry with "Education" in its duties would stand to reason as a starting point.)

I still thinnk that the MoCE and MoAE need to be looked at as to whether there are functions assigned to either Ministry that should be assigned to forum administration or elsewhere. If there is a desire to include any of the other Ministries, that's fine; but let's parse out the functions and look at them that way first.
 
My proposal clearly includes the Communication aspect of the ministry, the only thing I am taking out is the responsibility to publish Cabinet actions as the PM already has and does do it much better. When it comes to informing the public, the MoC has and always will be a part of this.

As for RA members, since the creation of the RA it's been my duty (as Speaker) and I have done it. When it comes to discussing things out of the context of legislation, the MoC has and will continue to do this.

we need a consensus as to how to actively alert and encourage RA member participation. Presuming that RA members *should* be doing that on their own, especially when vptes are occuring, I don't think reflects reality very well.
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This is something that cannot be legislated, it depends on the type of player who is running the MoC and their style of leadership. It has and always will be this way.

I still thinnk that the MoCE and MoAE need to be looked at as to whether there are functions assigned to either Ministry that should be assigned to forum administration or elsewhere. If there is a desire to include any of the other Ministries, that's fine; but let's parse out the functions and look at them that way first.
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The MoCE has never been a truly successful ministry, I will argue despite some anomalies, we have never seen a full term filled with active participation and interest. By combining the two ministries, we allow the MoC to fully utilize the resources it contains but to also inform people of the past as well as current events.
 
I could go for the MoC - MoCE merger. Its a bit difficult to tell, as both can be low profile. are there any past MoC's and MoCE's who would like to comment on the workload of each...

This may come as a suprise to some, but I'd be in favour of removing the MoAE position all together. The OOC is a living, breathing reflection of the sillier side of TNP, it requires no management, it thrives on neglect (which is why it does so well under OPA's stewardship :P). Moderation is rare. MI has shown in the last couple of weeks, that if forum member wants to start a topic off there they will. And, I would argue that the OOC is beyond the realms of government and game, both in manner and definition.
 
If the idea of a TNPU comes to fruition, I seriously doubt the same Ministry could handle it along with the news services. This would then mean there would be a need for a ministry of education. (And I could see how it could function in a manner similar to the NPA/MoD division of leadership.0
 
^ Schnauzer, do you think we would necessarily need to have a government position to take care of a potential TNPU? I would lean toward appointing an independent Chancellor who would oversee the subforum, contact potential faculty, etc.

I don't have a problem with the idea of merging the MoC and the MoCE in general, but I think it's in bad form to do it during elections, when we have an entire term ahead of us for the new Ministers to make their mark why each position should be separate (I recognize you also may be trying to prod them into action). If we want to come back to this in a month we'll have a better idea of what we should do in the new term.

For the deleted responsibilites of the MoC, could they be given to the Prime Minister? The PM chairs all meetings so all the discussion should be avaliable to him or her.
 
Unterwasserseestaat:
^ Schnauzer, do you think we would necessarily need to have a government position to take care of a potential TNPU? I would lean toward appointing an independent Chancellor who would oversee the subforum, contact potential faculty, etc.
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Exactly. The ministers should not be doing everything, there should be other avenues for people to get involved. I would easily support merging the MoC and MoCE, and I wouldn't mind putting a few others in there as well, but this is a decent starting place.
 
^ Schnauzer, do you think we would necessarily need to have a government position to take care of a potential TNPU? I would lean toward appointing an independent Chancellor who would oversee the subforum, contact potential faculty, etc.
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I'm not ruling it in or out yet, but I want to preserve the opportunity. There may be sound check-and-balance reasons for having a Minister involved with some sort of committee. This is one reason why I want a commission to work ou these sort of details and I don't want them to feel constrained by this proposal.

I would really like to hear from current members of the RA who have previously served in the MoC, the MoCE, and the MoAE, in terms of what they did and did not do in terms of their authority during their tenure, what aspects were strictly forum moderation, and which aspects that were forum moderation function did or did not require a Ministerial hot.

Instead of generalization about this, let's get some specific from those who have been there. I know Roman was once MoC, Hersfold was once MoCE, and they would have useful insights to contribute. I'm sure other past Ministers in those ministries would as well.
 
To be honest, it hasn't helped whether the cause of the TNPU has been the responsibility of an elected member, a chancellor, a private citizen, or Pinky; it just hasn't yet been completed. We need someone who has an honest interest in it who is willing to be flexible to others demands while charging ahead with a quixotic zeal. In other words, I don't see how removing the MoCE could possibly harm this idea as it's been a failure when over 7 other Ministers promised to do it. Given the history maybe the chances are better without just one minister.

I'll still give this some time but barring any other lively discussion, it will be moved to FD.
 
Maybe one reason is that the elections have been going on, and some things are inappropriate until the results are declared?

Just saying! :yes:
 
When I was MoC in the summer of 2004, I mostly drank beer and chatted with Thel.

I think the proposal makes sense. We can make it effective for the next election, or when one of the elected Ministers goes inactive, whichever comes first.
 
If the MoCE doesn't do his or her responsibilities with zeal, why would a MoC with responsibilities of their own do any better?
 
Vulcan:
If the MoCE doesn't do his or her responsibilities with zeal, why would a MoC with responsibilities of their own do any better?
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Because the duty of the MoC overlaps with the MoCE, the MoCE usually find themselves with little to do except wait for feedback on others. We may be shifting the slack to the MoC but they're technically already doing it.

The only issue here is the TNPU, which to this day is more a mirage than anything else.
 
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