plugging a gap in the constitution

Flemingovia

TNPer
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Dear All,

Almost from the moment of the adoption of the current constitution, a loophole has been evident that has been constantly exploited by those who wish us ill.

That loophole has two parts:

First, it is absurdly easy to become an RA member. Post the oath and you are in - there is no questioning of it, no possible veto of it. People treat becoming a RA member as if it is a right for anybody. And perhaps it is.

Now this would not be too much of a problem if the RA oath was watertight. But, as I shall show below it is not.

Second, the constitution was written consistently refering to nations. Nations are covered by the constitution, not the players.

Consider for a moment the absurdity of this. Nations are inanimate. It is players who make decisions. It is as if our RL laws concerning murder covered murder weapons, and we put them on trial, not the murderers. asking a nation to take an oath is as stupid as asking a sword or a dagger to promise not to stab anyone. What matters is how they are weilded.

This has been exploited almost from the moment the constitution was written, with players who are actively working to take over or undermine this region maintaining a nation within the RA of the region, even, theoretically, able to become ministers or delegate.

All the player need to do is to be careful not to attack the region in any way with the nation specifically put into the RA. They can do what they like with their other puppets.

Now I was involved in drawing up this constitution, and I KNOW this was not the intent of the drafters. But it is the situation we are in, and it leads to several problems.

1. It means, in a war situation, that enemy powers cannot easily be forum banned, as they have RA "rights".

2. It means we have a potentially large security problem. Not least because discussions and decisions by the RA are known to those attacking us. Even should we decide at any point to have a RA discussion behind closed doors, it woud be immediately ineffective.

3. It means that the RA oath is meaningless, since it binds the nation not the player. A player can sign the oath with a puppet quite easily, then attack the region with other nations and forum accounts.

4. It means we are, frankly, the cause of much bewilderment and laughter in other regions. I do not know of any other region who would embrace so readily players who are actively attacking the region.

5. It means that our justice system is ineffective. We can pass whatever laws we like, but if a player is careful, they are untouchable.

Please note, what I have said above is informed by, but does not specifically refer to aspects of our conflict with the Lexicon, nor trials which have or are being carried out in the region. I just think there is an unforseen hole in our constitution that we ought to patch.

Should this be done?
How should this be done - laws or a constitutional amendment?
 
Because it is an idea which only now has come to full fruition in my mind. I have been thinking along these lines for some months - in fact probably for the best part of a year. So your question might just as well have been "why not introduce this six months ago?"

Fact is, I was sitting at my keyboard this morning and I thought that it was no good griping internally about these things, I ought to do something about it. I do not think this depends on my being Prime Minister, and in fact I am hoping that someone better than me at drafting legislation will pick this up and run with it.,
 
How about a law defining "Nation" for those places in the Constitution where it is meant to be "player"? It can be adopted and put into place more quickly than amending the Consitution.

(I am posting as a general mod, and I otherwise wouldn't say anything in the private Cabinet forum, but this alternative shouldn't be overlooked.)
 
I would agree with Schnauzer here. I'm imagining that in the Constitution there is an understanding that a player is role playing an official speaking on behalf of his NS nation. The idea of duality goes strictly against that, but it's hard to keep things straight as for some they are role playing, some are playing generally as themselves either in official matters or in screwing around on spam boards.

This is something that could be dealt with in a law, or an official Judicial ruling stating that a player is an official of any and all NS nations they have control of.
 
The Schnauz has the right idea with implementing this.

If we treat each nation or collection of nations as the individual behind all of them, then we preclude the who 'duality' issue. For instance, under the current arrangement, there is nothing to prevent members of foreign governments from becoming citizens of our region and influencing our region to their benefit. The UN nation requirement stops some of it, but I get the willies concerning individuals who have no UN nation at all, or rather claim to have no UN nation at all. I think it wise to add a provision that if one is to be a citizen of the region that one be required to have not only a TNP nation, but a known UN nation (excepting NPIA and NPA members who might be required to change UN nations in the course of their respective duties).
 
Roman, your idea about the UN member nations won't work. The Constitution guarantees that UN membership is voluntary and cannot be required.
 
Just a heads up, after the election I'm proposing the merge the MoCE and the MoC. It won't be an omnibus amendment but just thought you should know. NO CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION.
 
Roman, your idea about the UN member nations won't work. The Constitution guarantees that UN membership is voluntary and cannot be required.
That is true and I am aware of that. Barring a change in that, we will have to become very creative in solving this issue.

R
 
Dear all,

This will need a const amendment, but this oath recognises that it is players who sign the oath, not nations. It is a draft, but perhaps when we get the oath sorted we will know what the constitutional amendment needs to do.

F>

PS the use of the word “directly” in the oath is taken to mean actions within the region, or on the forum/irc etc. I do not think that meeting the NPA on the field of battle in another region should be deemed to be breech of this oath.

((TNP NATION NAME))
((UN NATION NAME)) – which may be given confidentially to the MOIIA.


I, ((FORUM ACCOUNT NAME)), as the leader of ((TNP NATION NAME)), pledge to obey the Constitution and Laws of The North Pacific Region, and to act as a responsible member of its society. I understand that if my TNP Nation leaves The North Pacific region for reasons other than participation in North Pacific Army deployments that I may be stripped of my right to vote and required to reapply. I pledge to only register one Nation to vote in The North Pacific. I understand that my registration of, or attempt to register, multiple Nations to vote in The North Pacific shall warrant the summary withdrawal of my right to vote from all my Nations, past, present, and future, as well as possible expulsion from the Region. I understand that if any nation under my control directly wages war against the North Pacific, or allies themselves with a region waging war, declared or not, against the North Pacific, this shall warrant the summary withdrawal of my right to vote from all my Nations, past, present, and future, as well as possible expulsion from the Region.

In this manner, I petition the Regional Government of The North Pacific region for membership in the Regional Assembly.
 
This should be moved to the RA discussion chamber instead of a private Cabinet forum.

I think that the general idea here is good, we only need to constrain people's activities when they immediately threaten the security of the region. What if a RA member has a Nation in a region who is engaged in war, but they conscienciously refuse to take part? I think they should be able to publicly post that they are not participating and continue acting without prejudice.

We can make a more nuanced law, which will automatically be carried over into the oath, because they "pledge to obey the Constitution and Laws of The North Pacific Region, and to act as a responsible member of its society."
 
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