Formal Discussion - War powers

wizardofoz01

wizardofoz01

TNPer
Originally drafted by Flemingovia:

The provisions of this act may be invoked in the event of war (declared or apparent) being waged against the North Pacific Government, delegate or community, by combined vote of the Cabinet and Security Council of the North Pacific, by a 75% majority vote.

Seeing that The North Pacific finds itself in a period of war and attack. Until such time as the crisis is over, or until the provisions of this act are revoked as outlined below...

1. All Delegate and Vice Delegate elections are suspended. Elections for other government positions shall continue as scheduled.

2. The MoIIA has the right to refuse any Regional Assembly application, given sufficient reason to believe that the application is related to the enemy in some way. Denial is subject to a Cabinet Vote. The applicant has the right to be notified as to the reasons for his denial, in addition to a public statement explaining the denial.

3. The delegate has the right to eject and ban nations, except current RA Members, from the region, subject to review by the cabinet and RA.

4. Forum Admins have the right to ban, IP ban or otherwise restrict the posting of those seen by them to be acting against the region (except RA members), again subject to cabinet and RA review.

5. The cabinet may remove (by simple majority vote) from the RA any nation giving comfort to, aiding, passing information to or otherwise supporting any region or group at war with TNP. This would be subject to review by the Regional Assembly, again by simple majority vote.

6. The war powers outlined above are immediately nullified following the signing of any surrender articles, peace treaties, or similar by the Government of the North Pacific. In addition, the Regional Assembly shall vote on the continuation of these powers once every 30 days the powers listed above are in force. If 50%+1 of the voting RA members are against continuation of these powers, with a quorum participating, the powers listed above shall be nullified immediately.
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I have issues with the failure of this proposal to even acknowledge the existence, much less the role, of the Security Council. If anything, during wartime the use of the Security Council should be enhanced, not ignored.

What might be useful is a provision to elect RA members to vacant seats in the SC so that a full complement is available from which to drae a quorum for RA actions. As a committee of the Regional Assembly, there is nothing in the constitution that would prohibit the adoption of a "house rule" for a procedure to fill such vacancies in the SC in wartime.
 
Well if people actually had used the SC way back when all this started we wouldn't be where we are now voting on a bill that won't ever be implimented because:

Article 3 Section 2:
1.E - The UN Delegate and Vice Delegate for the Region shall have no authority to act in any other manner with respect to the Regional Government, unless such authority is expressly granted to the Delegate or Vice Delegate through process of Amendment of this Constitution, and not by implication. The North Pacific Legal Code may not alter the powers or authority of the office of Delegate or Vice Delegate.
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If this law is adopted it would violate that particular section of the Constitution as it alters the powers of the delegate. This would have to be a Constitutional amendment, not an addition to the legal code.

I agree gross that there needs to be a way to appoint/elect new SC members.
 
Alright, so take out Art. 3 for now. Personally, I think the most important thing in the bill is the suspension of Delegate and Vice Delegate elections. And no, I don't think that that alters the "powers" or "authority" of the positions as stated in the Constitution.
 
Just a few points from me...and a rewording....otherwise I'm kind of okay with this....

2. The MoIIA has the right to refuse any Regional Assembly application, given sufficient reason to believe that the application is related to the enemy in some way. Denial is subject to a Cabinet Vote. The applicant has the right to be notified as to the reasons for his denial, in addition to a public statement explaining the denial.....( what chance of appeal do they have...if any???)

5. The cabinet may remove (by simple majority vote) from the RA any nation giving comfort to, aiding, passing information to or otherwise supporting any region or group at war with TNP. This would be subject to review by the Regional Assembly, again by simple majority vote. (again any chance of appeal against this..???)

6. The war powers outlined above are immediately nullified following the signing( I would again suggest a change of wording to recognition rather than signing) of any surrender articles, peace treaties, or similar by the Government of the North Pacific. In addition, the Regional Assembly shall vote on the continuation of these powers once every 30 days the powers listed above are in force. If 50%+1 of the voting RA members are against continuation of these powers, with a quorum participating, the powers listed above shall be nullified immediately.[/QUOTE]
 
Monte Ozarka:
Alright, so take out Art. 3 for now. Personally, I think the most important thing in the bill is the suspension of Delegate and Vice Delegate elections. And no, I don't think that that alters the "powers" or "authority" of the positions as stated in the Constitution.
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Oh you don't do you? I think giving the delegate the seat for an unspecified time is power.
 
Democratic Donkeys:
Monte Ozarka:
Alright, so take out Art. 3 for now. Personally, I think the most important thing in the bill is the suspension of Delegate and Vice Delegate elections. And no, I don't think that that alters the "powers" or "authority" of the positions as stated in the Constitution.
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Oh you don't do you? I think giving the delegate the seat for an unspecified time is power.
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Unspecified does not mean unlimited. So long as the integrity of the RA is preserved, I'm fine with it.
 
This proposal, if enacted, does not change the procedure by which any member nation in the RA can seek review of a ministerial action by the Cabinet and then by vote of the RA, or for a judicial review proceeding in the Court.

The primary problem is defining what circumstances constitute "wartime" such that it supports the suspension of elections for Delegate and Vice Delegate. If anything is of concern to me besides the lack of mention of the Security Council in the bill, it would be this point. I can see this being milked as a "loophole" to indefinitely postpone delegate elections.
 
This was worked out so that everyone should be able to continue to appeal the actions of the government, and so that these provisions couldn't be carried on indefinitely.

the event of war (declared or apparent) being waged against the North Pacific Government, delegate or community, by combined vote of the Cabinet and Security Council of the North Pacific, by a 75% majority vote.
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That's a pretty strong majority - if none of the SC members are in the cabinet, that could be as many as 11 people out of 15 or so having to vote on this.

I agree Article 3 does appear to cause some issues. If this is to be added to the legal code, it needs to be removed. Otherwise this is an amendment.

Denial is subject to a Cabinet Vote. The applicant has the right to be notified as to the reasons for his denial, in addition to a public statement explaining the denial.....( what chance of appeal do they have...if any???)
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Cabinet approval - if they lose that, they can get an RA member to petition the decision.

5. The cabinet may remove (by simple majority vote) from the RA any nation giving comfort to, aiding, passing information to or otherwise supporting any region or group at war with TNP. This would be subject to review by the Regional Assembly, again by simple majority vote.  (again any chance of appeal against this..???)
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"Subject to review by the RA"... that's about the best appeal we can possibly give in this region. Unless you want to poll all 5,000 nations...?

Wording change to recognition would probably be fine.

Oh you don't do you? I think giving the delegate the seat for an unspecified time is power.
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I agree with Monte here. Even if the war does drag on for a while, the RA has three chances to overturn these articles every election period - as the previous elections are going on, and the two months after that. And most NS wars don't last that long anyway... due to the fact it's awfully difficult to actually DO anything to each other (For example, see TNP-Lexicon war). The war probably would be over now if it weren't for the fact most of us are enjoying it so much. :rolleyes:

These were carefuly written to make sure that the Delegate didn't hold their power indefintitely.
 
To President Dan and Book Islands, your votes were invalid as the masking was not secure nor was there any evidence to be presented that you were RA members prior to the vote.

To Dam, I'm pretty sure everything that was brought up in the pre-lim discussions were added in. This copy was the Formal Discussion version and actually very very dissimilar to the original proposal Flem initially introduced.

Once again, please direct your comments and statements away from the actual voting thread. I'm just going to warn you this time, any more grandstanding will result in revokation of RA privilleges.
 
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