Proposal: Amended Line of Succession

bootsie

bootsie

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After much discussion and debate, the Security Council has decided it is time to amend the Line of Succession past the Vice Delegate. This new list was decided on based on numerous factors, such as experience, endorsement count, and activity. Please let me know if you have any questions prior to us voting. Per our law, such a proposal requires a majority of the Regional Assembly's vote. Without further ado, the proposed new Line of Succession:

DELEGATE
VICE DELEGATE
1. Great Bights Mum
2. Plembobria
3. McMasterdonia
4. Lord Ravenclaw
5. Bootsie
6. Myroria
7. SillyString
8. Romanoffia
9. Malvad

NOTE: This list was supposed to be presented prior to Sunday, 8/14. The fact it did not get presented before was solely a failure on my part.
 
Vice Delegate, while I understand that Plemboria has dutifully served this region faithfully for some reasons, it escapes me why he is placed ahead in the line of sucession ahead of former Delegates McMasterdonia and SillyString, incumbent Delegate Lord Ravenclaw and former Vice Delegates Romanoffia and Myroria as well as yourself, the incumbent Vice Delegate of the North Pacific.

No offence to Plemboria intended but surely the individuals I have listed above are more suitable to serving as Acting Delegate if the situation requires?
 
I won't support this list as is. Plembobria's placement is baffling to me. GBM and McMasterdonia have both vacated their seat and rejoined at some point. Ravenclaw is a recent addition to the SC and should be placed near the bottom. They should be lower on the list as per the Constitution:

Constitution:
5. The Regional Assembly may establish a line of succession by a majority vote. The line of succession must always include the Vice Delegate and all current Security Council members, and must always place the Vice Delegate first. If a new member is admitted to the Security Council, they will be automatically added at the end of the current line of succession. If a member is removed from the Security Council, they will be automatically removed from the line of succession.
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tl;dr.. this list stinks. Experience, endorsement count, and activity are not deciding factors in the LoS. Re-arrange the list according to the constitutional guidelines, and I will gladly support it.
 
Keep in mind that Plembobria has the highest endorsement count in TNP that is not either the Delegate or Vice Delegate, and is a security councilor and minister.
 
Gradea:
Vice Delegate, while I understand that Plemboria has dutifully served this region faithfully for some reasons, it escapes me why he is placed ahead in the line of sucession ahead of former Delegates McMasterdonia and SillyString, incumbent Delegate Lord Ravenclaw and former Vice Delegates Romanoffia and Myroria as well as yourself, the incumbent Vice Delegate of the North Pacific.

No offence to Plemboria intended but surely the individuals I have listed above are more suitable to serving as Acting Delegate if the situation requires?
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Activity was the factor decided first, which is why SillyString, Romanoffia, Myroria, and Malvad were placed closer to the bottom, because it would be harder to get them up to the Delegacy. Experience was considered next, which brought members like myself and Raven closer to the top, but not as much so as GBM or McM, since they've been members of the Council for a very long time, and have seen the many seasons of TNP. Plembobria is 2nd on this list because he has remained at an actively high endorsement level, which is ideal to slingshot into the Delegacy. I would've suggested him to be first, but I do feel GBM with a rise in endorsements will fill a crucial role in the SC.


falapatorius:
I won't support this list as is. Plembobria's placement is baffling to me. GBM and McMasterdonia have both vacated their seat and rejoined at some point. Ravenclaw is a recent addition to the SC and should be placed near the bottom. They should be lower on the list as per the Constitution:

Constitution:
5. The Regional Assembly may establish a line of succession by a majority vote. The line of succession must always include the Vice Delegate and all current Security Council members, and must always place the Vice Delegate first. If a new member is admitted to the Security Council, they will be automatically added at the end of the current line of succession. If a member is removed from the Security Council, they will be automatically removed from the line of succession.
Click to expand...
tl;dr.. this list stinks. Experience, endorsement count, and activity are not deciding factors in the LoS. Re-arrange the list according to the constitutional guidelines, and I will gladly support it.
Click to expand...
Except the first sentence quoted the constitutional guidelines that the Regional Assembly can approve any list by majority vote that overrides the current LoS. Yes, McMasterdonia and Great Bights Mum have recently been readmitted to the Council, but they are *automatically* added to the bottom. The Regional Assembly is given the right to change what the LoS reads, and that is exactly what right I'm using in this proposal.
 
falapatorius:
tl;dr.. this list stinks. Experience, endorsement count, and activity are not deciding factors in the LoS. Re-arrange the list according to the constitutional guidelines, and I will gladly support it.
Click to expand...
The line of succession is meant to be a security measure. If someone needs to step into the delegacy; experience, endocount, and activity are the things we need from such a person.
This list is a perfect ranking.

If the constitution cannot fit to this simple pragmatic logic it must be amended.
 
falapatorius:
I won't support this list as is. Plembobria's placement is baffling to me. GBM and McMasterdonia have both vacated their seat and rejoined at some point. Ravenclaw is a recent addition to the SC and should be placed near the bottom. They should be lower on the list as per the Constitution:

Constitution:
5. The Regional Assembly may establish a line of succession by a majority vote. The line of succession must always include the Vice Delegate and all current Security Council members, and must always place the Vice Delegate first. If a new member is admitted to the Security Council, they will be automatically added at the end of the current line of succession. If a member is removed from the Security Council, they will be automatically removed from the line of succession.
Click to expand...
tl;dr.. this list stinks. Experience, endorsement count, and activity are not deciding factors in the LoS. Re-arrange the list according to the constitutional guidelines, and I will gladly support it.
Click to expand...

That article quite clearly states that the Regional Assembly may establish the line of succession by majority vote.

Once this line of succession has been set, any new members are placed at the bottom. That is the default way of determining the order of SC members on the line of succesion. That is not the only rule, nor does it outline the only factors that may be considered. This has been the case ever since we got frustrated with needing to pass a new line of succession whenever someone was admitted (I believe).

The RA may consider any other factor in establishing the line of succession. It is completely illogical to suggest that experience, endorsement count, and activity are not deciding factors. They most certainly are and they most certainly have been in essentially every line of succession passed in recent memory. It is not simply by order of admission to the SC. To suggest otherwise is simply incorrect.

It would be idiotic to have an inactive member of the SC as the highest in the l.o.s. Just as it would be moronic to have someone with the lowest endorsement count, or the lowest level of experience. The constitution is flexible enough for us to consider in other factors in our line of succession. The article gives the RA the flexibility to change the line of succession to make it more suitable.

Gradea:
Vice Delegate, while I understand that Plemboria has dutifully served this region faithfully for some reasons, it escapes me why he is placed ahead in the line of sucession ahead of former Delegates McMasterdonia and SillyString, incumbent Delegate Lord Ravenclaw and former Vice Delegates Romanoffia and Myroria as well as yourself, the incumbent Vice Delegate of the North Pacific.

No offence to Plemboria intended but surely the individuals I have listed above are more suitable to serving as Acting Delegate if the situation requires?
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Well, I believe it makes sense for Ravenclaw and Bootsie to be around the middle or towards the lower end of the scale while they are Delegate/Vice Delegate. Otherwise the line of succession potentially would read Lord Ravenclaw, Bootsie, Lord Ravenclaw, Bootsie. So even if hypothetically Bootsie and Ravenclaw were recalled, they could be the acting Delegate/Vice Delegate :P

Plembobria has the highest endorsements and is unquestionably the most active member of the Security Council, that and the SC trusts him to discharge his duty should be he called upon to do so.

Syrixia:
falapatorius:
tl;dr.. this list stinks. Experience, endorsement count, and activity are not deciding factors in the LoS. Re-arrange the list according to the constitutional guidelines, and I will gladly support it.
Click to expand...
The line of succession is meant to be a security measure. If someone needs to step into the delegacy; experience, endocount, and activity are the things we need from such a person.
This list is a perfect ranking.

If the constitution cannot fit to this simple pragmatic logic it must be amended.
Click to expand...
Quite right, however as I said above the constitution can do exactly this, as it has done since this section was in place. The RA is not obligated to only adopt a default line of succession based on order of admission as seems to be suggested earlier, it can amend the line of succession to reflect currernt endorsement levels, current activity, and the trustworthiness of members.
 
I completely agree that activity is a critical factor in determining a LoS. This is especially the case if the succession occurs due to an emergency, or otherwise a tumultuous period.
 
there is no need for such a long line of succession unless some one is predicting total annihilation of human kind or a world war Z or something
 
Pasargad:
there is no need for such a long line of succession unless some one is predicting total annihilation of human kind or a world war Z or something
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I think that a lot of people might pass on. It can be a demanding job the Delegacy.
 
I purpose that elected official should be in line of succession
Delegate
Vice Delegate
Speaker of Assembly
Attorney General
then SC members According to Seniority
 
Pasargad:
I purpose that elected official should be in line of succession
Delegate
Vice Delegate
Speaker of Assembly
Attorney General
then SC members According to Seniority
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What if the Speaker and/or the AG have their WA nations elsewhere? It would be impractical to have them in the LOS if they are not in a position to provide material assistance.
 
Great Bights Mum:
Pasargad:
I purpose that elected official should be in line of succession
Delegate
Vice Delegate
Speaker of Assembly
Attorney General
then SC members According to Seniority
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What if the Speaker and/or the AG have their WA nations elsewhere? It would be impractical to have them in the LOS if they are not in a position to provide material assistance.
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Indeed. The line of succession should only include security council members. It is exists only for the sake of responding in an emergency situation i.e. severe inactivity, to assist a Delegate with banning high influence threats, and to enforce the recall of a Delegate. These duties should nto fall to the Speaker or to the Attorney General. In all likelihood, they would lack the in-game ability to actually enforce this.

Pasargad, the line of succession is so long because there are so many SC members. Ever member needs to be listed.
 
mcmasterdonia:
Great Bights Mum:
Pasargad:
I purpose that elected official should be in line of succession
Delegate
Vice Delegate
Speaker of Assembly
Attorney General
then SC members According to Seniority
Click to expand...
What if the Speaker and/or the AG have their WA nations elsewhere? It would be impractical to have them in the LOS if they are not in a position to provide material assistance.
Click to expand...
Indeed. The line of succession should only include security council members. It is exists only for the sake of responding in an emergency situation i.e. severe inactivity, to assist a Delegate with banning high influence threats, and to enforce the recall of a Delegate. These duties should nto fall to the Speaker or to the Attorney General. In all likelihood, they would lack the in-game ability to actually enforce this.

Pasargad, the line of succession is so long because there are so many SC members. Ever member needs to be listed.
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You are right but elected officials should have priority in case of Vacancy that is what i purpose .
 
The one main problem I can see with putting elected officials in the LoS is the constitution itself. Because the Speaker, AG and Justices can not hold a position in the Executive. By putting them in the LoS it could potentially trigger sweeping government special election. Because them being the active delegate would mean that they would have to resign from their original positions, triggering a special election for their original position along with the special election for the delegacy.

That is unless we rewrite the constitution to allow it or if we force in an amendment.
 
Lord Lore:
The one main problem I can see with putting elected officials in the LoS is the constitution itself. Because the Speaker, AG and Justices can not hold a position in the Executive. By putting them in the LoS it could potentially trigger sweeping government special election. Because them being the active delegate would mean that they would have to resign from their original positions, triggering a special election for their original position along with the special election for the delegacy.

That is unless we rewrite the constitution to allow it or if we force in an amendment.
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In any case we will need an emergency elections in case of vacancy in delegate position elected official will be temporary care taker till new delegate is elected then they will resume their previous roles.
 
Pasargad:
there is no need for such a long line of succession unless some one is predicting total annihilation of human kind or a world war Z or something
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Actually, there is a need for a long line of succession for a number of reason.

The first is that you need a core of top nations that can assume the position of Delegate in the event a Delegate ends up inactive or otherwise unable to respond.

The second reason is that you have a the possibility of anyone in the line of succession not being able to respond immediately for any number of reasons, in which instance, anyone wanting to take down a Delegate has to go through a large number of nations to do it, in succession.

The third reason is that you need a LOS that may not actually coincide with the number of endorsements a given SC nation in the LOC has for the two preceding reasons.

For instance, when McM had to resign as Delegate, I was #1 in the LOS and my nation moved into the Delegate position. I had little or no warning, but got not only a warning via the forum, but outside the forum by people aware of the situation. And, the system we have worked like a machine. I was able to pass off the Delegate to the proper person (meaning the Vice Delegate) in less than 48 hours. And the beauty is that even if I wasn't around to notice this, the method we use would have resulted in the same without much more time than 48 hours.
 
Bootsie:
Except the first sentence quoted the constitutional guidelines that the Regional Assembly can approve any list by majority vote that overrides the current LoS. Yes, McMasterdonia and Great Bights Mum have recently been readmitted to the Council, but they are *automatically* added to the bottom. The Regional Assembly is given the right to change what the LoS reads, and that is exactly what right I'm using in this proposal.
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I disagree with your interpretation of that sentence. I believe it's dependent on the sentences that follow it. If the RA can approve 'any' list, why bother with the guidelines at all? I maintain the LoS that was in place prior to this proposal being submitted is what the RA should be voting on. Granted, it might be hard to get a clear view of what that was, considering the vacancies and re-admissions in the past few months.

I don't think it's fair that new members (and re-admitted members) should be able to jump the LoS queue (for any reason). So McM and Raven get a free pass this time (being the most recent admissions)? GBM is not particularly active (hence administrator emeritus status). What if one of them vacates again, and is re-admitted (again)? Will the LoS be reset to put them back at the top (presumably because of their activity levels, experience, who they know.. blah blah friggin blah)? Repeat and rinse. Whatever. Use the RA as a rubber stamp. This has already been motioned to vote anyway. Still voting against.
 
This amended line of succession was devised due to the fact that I was going on holiday to a place which was both poorly connected and rural. Given that I was increasingly concerned that I would be out of reach for long periods of time (as I have been since the 14th which is why my activity dropped like a stone) and that given recent movements across NS had both myself and members of the SC concerned someone would try and take advantage of my absence to "make trouble" in-game, I asked the VD/SC to ensure the LoS was up to date. I wanted this passed before I left for my holiday, nearly two weeks ago but it was not submitted/passed until after I left after I inquired what was happening with it.

The criteria for this was regular activity: who is around most often? With the logic that the top members of the LoS would have border control to act in defence of the region in-game.

Why is Bootsie and I situated in the middle? Well if you to ignore the fact I spent over two years involved with in-game security of Osiris, including as Delegate, I'm also one of the more active members of the SC. With regular activity being the biggest criteria used, followed on by relative experience and current endorsements it gives you the result that has been presented to you now.

I'm still not at home (something came up which changed my plans) and my connection is still awful but since there are elements of contention I'm posting to clarify the reasoning behind them. I did decide that NS wasn't worth cutting my holiday short for, as originally when a NS issue came up I pondered just coming home - but this is a game and I am enjoying my holiday.

This is also the first public acknowledgement of my absence - the risk of issues in-game is minimal now and I expect to be home within the next few days.
 
I will oppose any amendment that places offsite government positions into the LoS. We have had some very unsavoury characters as AG and Justice in the recent past.
 
Lord Ravenclaw:
I'm still not at home (something came up which changed my plans) and my connection is still awful but since there are elements of contention I'm posting to clarify the reasoning behind them. I did decide that NS wasn't worth cutting my holiday short for, as originally when a NS issue came up I pondered just coming home - but this is a game and I am enjoying my holiday.

This is also the first public acknowledgement of my absence - the risk of issues in-game is minimal now and I expect to be home within the next few days.
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Enjoy your Holiday RL > NS :yes:
 
Gracius Maximus:
I will oppose any amendment that places offsite government positions into the LoS. We have had some very unsavoury characters as AG and Justice in the recent past.
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I have to agree with this statement. Just look at that Gradius Maximus guy, long term Attorney and Justice, he is just a wee bit sketchy to be given the delegacy without an election.
 
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