Zombie Preparedness Act

Roman:
My definition of the IRCabal: It's a big club and you ain't in it!
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:tb3: ... :shifty:

Tomb:
The reason for this event is to have fun, not to eject players just so that we would do well in the event.
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Agreed. The threat of cross-border zombie invasion/infection adds to the fun too. I'm an advocate of cure bombing, but I'm not against nom-nomming other regions. If it's such a big concern, close the borders.
 
And the silly part of it all is that it amounts to an inane consumption of the Delegate's influence, especially if influential nations are ejected.

It would be more appropriate for TNP to seal its borders in such an even and remove any infected nation that attempts to move into the region...as a matter of regional security.

But this is an extremely silly bill that gives too much arbitrary authority to the Delegate.
 
I am not in favour of this act. It's too big a reaction for too small an event and its wording is too prone to misinterpretation.
 
I move for a vote.

So far, the only change I'm considering is the rephrasing of the first clause in the new section to narrow the scope of events that are covered by the section.
 
Move for a vote? We have not even had formal debate.

And I do not personally wish to see a change to our legal code that affects our rights under the bill of rights and gives the executive powers the right to ban without legal redress in a whole new area of the game rushed through the assembly.
 
In the spirit of compromise, I propose the following amendments. Eluvatar assisted me in drafting this. It appears that most of the concerns surround the idea of banjecting long time natives, WA members, security councilors etc.

This proposal will limit the banjecting to nations who have entered the region during the crisis. As a feeder, we are often targeted by newly created nations who wish to cause trouble for the sake of it. Secondly, we will be able to leave our borders open and banject nations who enter through that way. We have had very trigger happy Delegates before, and in my view this proposal is a reasonable compromise to address these concerns. We will have to handle long-time natives, SC members, etc who decide to contradict the governments policy through the other means available to us on Zombie day.

Secondly - given that Zombie day is almost entirely in-game and most of the nations who participate will never step foot on this regional forum, we should make use of the poll feature. This means that we will not require a RA amendment if the region wishes to approach Zombie day in a different manner. The in-game poll can be limited to native nations which will prevent any serious attempt at poll raiding.

The last clause relating to the Speaker has been amended slightly. The Speaker will only have to contact nations who remain outside of the region at the end of the outbreak, rather than every single one that left the region.

1. A new section shall be appended to Chapter 6 of the Legal Code entitled Section 6.8: Disease Control
2. The new section shall have seven clauses, reading as follows:
  • An outbreak of an infectious disease shall be considered an actual emergency under clause 11 of the Bill of Rights for all nations of The North Pacific.
  • In the event of an outbreak of an infectious disease, the government of The North Pacific will devote itself to responding in the public's interest.
  • The government should present at least three alternative plans in a regional poll, in advance of the outbreak, and follow the plan preferred by The North Pacific's nations.
  • During an outbreak, the delegate is authorized to act in any reasonable manner to pursue the adopted plan. This includes, but is not limited to, ejecting or banning nations from the region who have entered the region during the crisis and imposing restrictions on national movement into the region.
  • Nations ejected or banned because of the outbreak must be promptly unbanned and invited to return once the emergency is over.
  • During an outbreak, no nation may have their status as a citizen or Regional Assembly member removed solely for leaving the region, so long as they return within three days of the end of the emergency.
  • Following an outbreak, the Speaker must promptly contact any citizen or Regional Assembly member who remain outside the region, and inform them that they are at risk of losing their status if they do not return within three days.
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I still have a problem getting my head round seeing this as an actual emergency.

I also do not like the loose wording of bullet point 4. There is a whole spectrum of opinion as to what is a "reasonable" act, and clauses like this can be used to justify all sorts of actions.

Finally, I disagree with one basic premise of this act - that our worry is the effect on old timers, sc members etc.

Protection from government abuse is a inalienable right. It applies from the highest to the lowest. If arbitrary banning without legal redress is wrong, then it is wrong no matter who is banned. I am uneasy about laws designed solely to protect one, privileged section of tnp.
 
flemingovia:
I still have a problem getting my head round seeing this as an actual emergency.

I also do not like the loose wording of bullet point 4. There is a whole spectrum of opinion as to what is a "reasonable" act, and clauses like this can be used to justify all sorts of actions.

Finally, I disagree with one basic premise of this act - that our worry is the effect on old timers, sc members etc.

Protection from government abuse is a inalienable right. It applies from the highest to the lowest. If arbitrary banning without legal redress is wrong, then it is wrong no matter who is banned. I am uneasy about laws designed solely to protect one, privileged section of tnp.
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I should have been clearer - I mean in regards to natives of the region. The fact is that nations who are created during the crisis, or move into the region during the crisis, simply to spread the disease would do so knowing that they could be banned for it. My proposal does not allow for any other nation to be banned or ejected from the region.

To be clear - I also have my doubts about this being an "actual" emergency. The reality is that r3n is not going to ban many nations (or possibly any at all) during Zombie day, my concern is if we elect a more trigger happy Delegate. I don't want to see people who're just enjoying the game as a native of TNP, being ejected or banned because they go against the governments view on Zombie Day. Simply because we later send them a message and say "sorry mate, you're free to come back now" doesn't mean that they will.. or that they will not view the North Pacific as having treated them harshly and unnecessarily so.

This proposal does not protect one privileged section of TNP, to the exclusion of all others. It protects all TNPers to the exclusion of nations created (or moved into the region) during the outbreak. Lastly, it provides the government with more flexibility and ties in the wishes of the in-game community with how the Government should respond to the outbreak.
 
I formally object to such an important issue going to vote with such unseemly haste.

Also, what is in formal debate? Coe's proposal or mcm's amendment?
 
flemingovia:
I formally object to such an important issue going to vote with such unseemly haste.

Also, what is in formal debate? Coe's proposal or mcm's amendment?
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COE's proposal. As the OP he is in control of the text of what would go to a vote. I expect he hasn't yet seen my suggestion.

I second the objection.
 
I can get behind mcm/elu's proposed changes, though I'd like to offer some tweaks of my own:

In the event of an outbreak of an infectious disease, the government of The North Pacific will devote itself to responding in the public's interest.
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This phrasing isn't consistent with the following two clauses - there's nothing stopping the govt from deciding on its own what is in the public's interest. I would suggest, instead, "will devote itself to responding according to the will of the public."
The government should present at least three alternative plans in a regional poll, in advance of the outbreak, and follow the plan preferred by The North Pacific's nations.
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Similarly, nothing in this clause requires the government to actually present any poll - simply says that they should do so. Better, I think, would be, "The government must take a regional poll in advance, or as soon as possible in the event of an unexpected outbreak, to determine the public will. This poll must contain at least three options."

Edit: Flem, yes, I understand your position better now. Thank you.
 
An emphatic nope to either proposal.

McM:
I don't want to see people who're just enjoying the game as a native of TNP, being ejected or banned because they go against the governments view on Zombie Day.
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First of all, such a banjection would be against the Law:

Constitution:
2. The Delegate may eject and ban nations from the region as permitted by law, and will eject or ban nations from the region when required by law.
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BOR:
1. All Nations of The North Pacific are sovereign. Each Nation has the right of self-determination in that Nation's domestic policies, including, but not limited to, issue selection and WA membership.
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BOR:
8. No Nation shall be ejected from the region, or banned from any forum, except as expressly authorized by the Constitution or the Legal Code. Should any official of a government authority of the region with authority to act, declare that the immediate ejection or banning of a Nation is an urgent matter of regional security they may order the ejection or banning of the nation. Any ejected or banned nation shall have prompt and immediate recourse to judicial review of the matter. The WA Delegate shall not exercise the power of ejection or banning unless expressly authorized by a specific action of a government authority of the region pursuant to the Constitution or to the Legal Code.
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Secondly, being banjected for going against government policy (which is unlawful and a BOR violation), is downright dictatorial, grounds for recall, and something to be remembered come election time, if it occurs.

I don't know if it's by accident or by design, but this proposal will not protect against a trigger-happy Delegate. Quite the opposite. If this bill were to pass, a Delegate could banject at will on Z-day (leaving Mall blissfully twitching on the floor). Completely unnecessary for a 36 hour event that was intended as (and so far has succeeded in being), a special event independent of everyday NS operations.

Although I am loathe to use this type of action, I feel compelled to fourth the objection to moving to a vote.
 
I'm not aware of any precedent on objecting to formal debate itself. Clearly nothing on this is written in the statute books either.

Perhaps it's time to amend Standing Procedures. In the meantime, the objection to formal debate is not recognised, and formal debate proceeds. I would like to remind this assembly that the option to object to the scheduling of a vote AFTER formal debate remains an option.
 
I accept Mcm's alterations and SillyString's tweaks. I'll update the OP when I get time.

I'm thinking of deleting the second clause though - it seems redundant with the third. Thoughts?
 
Fourth Objection.

This bill accomplishes nothing and does nothing to explain how the bill will prevent, stem or effectively deal with any such 'emergency'.

Also, this bill would have the effect of suspending the Constiution, the BOR and the entire legal code if ever applied.
 
Democratic Donkeys:
Romanoffia:
Fourth Objection.
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:rofl:
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What? No one is allowed to register an objection any more? Please don't tell me that we've turned into a fascist system where everyone must comply with the Oligarchy or get executed. :P

With all due respect, this Zombie Preparedness Act is the most idiotic proposition I have every seen to squander the time of the RA for the following reasons:

1. Every incident in the region involving 'Zombies' clears itself up after a few days of entertaining episodes of people running around acting like mental zombies. And then everything goes back to exactly the way it was before regardless of what anyone does or does not do concerning Zombies.

2. The ZPA is unnecessary.

3. It's silly

4. The whole concept of allowing the Delegate to eject nations from the region without due process is a violation of the Constitution, The Bill of Rights and every legal principle contained therein, especially since such a Zombie event has no effect on anything and results in nothing meaningful.

5. The ZPA bill is nothing more than a potential tool for purging the region of political enemies, damaging the endorsement levels of hapless victims and endangering the over-all influence and population numbers of the region.

6. I actually don't give a hoot as to whether the bill passes or not but I do feel compelled to point out silly and meaningless things that will only serve to damage the region, like this bill.
 
Flap - it is certainly not my intent to allow for widespread purging. If my proposal does allow for that, please indicate where. My intention is to confine banjection to nations that enter the region during the crisis.

Romanoffia - this act cannot be used to remove political enemies. If the Delegate did somehow try to do that, it would be grounds for recall and it would be unlawful.
 
I was laughing at the fact that you do not read anything, Romanoffia. You would be the fifth objection if only prcocedure (which Lord Nwahs posted about) allowed for objection to entering formal debate, but it doesn't.
 
McM:
Flap - it is certainly not my intent to allow for widespread purging. If my proposal does allow for that, please indicate where. My intention is to confine banjection to nations that enter the region during the crisis.
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Since it was unclear if COE was going to incorporate any changes, I was referring to the OP mostly, and the part of your statement that I quoted. Your compromise, while alleviating (well.. sort of) some concerns about government heavy-handedness regarding Z-Day plans of attack, is still not something I can support.

As it stands, banning a nation just for entering the region is illegal, unconstitutional, etc. Your proposal still seeks to suspend the Constibillicode for 36 hours. I will not support that.. ever. Especially for a pretend emergency (no matter how anyone tries to spin it). This proposal goes completely against the spirit of the event imo. At this point, I am considering not even participating (I am a huge fan of all things zombie too, so that'd suck). Still against.
 
falapatorius:
McM:
Flap - it is certainly not my intent to allow for widespread purging. If my proposal does allow for that, please indicate where. My intention is to confine banjection to nations that enter the region during the crisis.
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Since it was unclear if COE was going to incorporate any changes, I was referring to the OP mostly, and the part of your statement that I quoted. Your compromise, while alleviating (well.. sort of) some concerns about government heavy-handedness regarding Z-Day plans of attack, is still not something I can support.

As it stands, banning a nation just for entering the region is illegal, unconstitutional, etc. Your proposal still seeks to suspend the Constibillicode for 36 hours. I will not support that.. ever. Especially for a pretend emergency (no matter how anyone tries to spin it). This proposal goes completely against the spirit of the event imo. At this point, I am considering not even participating (I am a huge fan of all things zombie too, so that'd suck). Still against.
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Okay. Definitely still participate as you see fit. Don't let these words on a bit of paper prevent you from having fun on Zombie Day ;)

My main concern was to prevent the original proposal from doing that to our nations who would have continued on as normal in TNP with or without Zombie Day. They should be allowed to participate in Zombie Day as they see fit, it is part of the fun.

Nations who enter the region just to spread disease or to contradict the adopted plan would do so knowing that there is a possibility they could be banned.

Sorry if I'm repeating myself, lol.
 
I know you were trying to compromise McM. I've no reason to think of you as ban-happy. Personally, I'm a bit put off that the best idea to combat infection spreading is to ban the perpetrators.

Why not make up a team of about 10 or more nations (with high populations as they can cure more.. or the NPA perhaps?), and have them monitor movement in and out of the region? If an infected nation shows up.. descend and cure-bomb them into oblivion. As you know from last year, the biggest problem was inactive nations with big populations that allowed their populations to be eaten.

C'mon people, get creative. Banning isn't the solution to everything. :eyeroll:
 
I'd certainly advise anyone who has old nations *looks at Romanoffia and GBM* to bring these nations back to help with the cure effort.
 
mcmasterdonia:
I'd certainly advise anyone who has old nations *looks at Romanoffia and GBM* to bring these nations back to help with the cure effort.
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I dun that. Flemingovia has returned.
 
It seems to me that this bill allows suficient freedom for member states to deal with the epidemic as they see fit. Seeing that Tenebritia is already beginning research to find a cure or immunization for the disease, we find this to be a very favorable concession.
 
mcmasterdonia:
I'd certainly advise anyone who has old nations *looks at Romanoffia and GBM* to bring these nations back to help with the cure effort.
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You mean I should resurrect old puppets with 5b+ populations?
 
Great Bights Mum:
mcmasterdonia:
I'd certainly advise anyone who has old nations *looks at Romanoffia and GBM* to bring these nations back to help with the cure effort.
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You mean I should resurrect old puppets with 5b+ populations?
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I've got a gazillion old puppets with 10 and 15b plus populations that I can revive.

Now, we can all defend ourselves from Zombies by getting soundly plastered on Rum so the Zombies don't think we're anything but Zombies.

The Rum Cure would not be needed by those (who shall remain nameless) who already have no brains for Zombies to feast upon. :P
 
Romanoffia:
Great Bights Mum:
mcmasterdonia:
I'd certainly advise anyone who has old nations *looks at Romanoffia and GBM* to bring these nations back to help with the cure effort.
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You mean I should resurrect old puppets with 5b+ populations?
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I've got a gazillion old puppets with 10 and 15b plus populations that I can revive.

Now, we can all defend ourselves from Zombies by getting soundly plastered on Rum so the Zombies don't think we're anything but Zombies.

The Rum Cure would not be needed by those (who shall remain nameless) who already have no brains for Zombies to feast upon. :P
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Yes to both of you. Bring back as many as you can find :P
 
I figured out the Zombie thing by accident just now -

If you click on an 'infected nation' you get a little box that has three buttons: Research a cure, send missles, brains.

After experimentation with a few puppets, what button you click on will determine whether or not your nation gets 'infected' and whether or not the Zombie infection in the nation you clicked on increases or decreases.
 
Hey guys, something I've been thinking about are "cleansing zones". I feel it's pretty tough to get feeders on the right side of the infection. But I wonder if we had a "cleansing zone" where TNPers could go for an hour or two, get cleaned up and then bring their cleaners back to the region.

Is that something that seems feasible?
 
Romanoffia:
I figured out the Zombie thing by accident just now -

If you click on an 'infected nation' you get a little box that has three buttons: Research a cure, send missles, brains.

After experimentation with a few puppets, what button you click on will determine whether or not your nation gets 'infected' and whether or not the Zombie infection in the nation you clicked on increases or decreases.
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OK, I got played but good! :lol:

Turns out that the nation(s) in question pulled a clever joke. I love it! :clap:
 
Punk D:
Is that something that seems feasible?
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Interesting idea.. don't know if it's doable though.

In light of this:

if a region contains many nations with high numbers of zombies, all resident nations will become infected quicker.
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I think a good initial strategy would be to cure all the nations with the largest populations. The active large nations will then be free to cure at will. The inactive ones won't be able to increase the infection rate. Then we could use the same method as last year.. systematically cleansing the region. :2c:

Roman:
OK, I got played but good!
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:rofl: Was that McM's nation flag?
 
Flap:
In light of this:

if a region contains many nations with high numbers of zombies, all resident nations will become infected quicker.
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I think a good initial strategy would be to cure all the nations with the largest populations. The active large nations will then be free to cure at will. The inactive ones won't be able to increase the infection rate. Then we could use the same method as last year.. systematically cleansing the region. :2c:
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I agree. We have a page on this forum that lists nations in order of highest infected -> lowest infected. We can use that to coordinate.


Flap:
Roman:
OK, I got played but good!
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:rofl: Was that McM's nation flag?
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Yep! Don't worry Roman, you weren't the only one who fell for it.
 
McM:
I agree. We have a page on this forum that lists nations in order of highest infected -> lowest infected. We can use that to coordinate.
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Alright. I was essentially new to NS at this time last year. I'll keep a tab open for that.

McM:
Yep! Don't worry Roman, you weren't the only one who fell for it.
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Lol.. noobs. :P
 
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