Gatesville

Flemingovia

Flemingovia

TNPer
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gates:
Gatesville is extremely upset over these new developments and disappointed that we were not invited to this alliance conference. Eluvatar of The North Pacific made sure his minions from Taijitu are part of this pact. I now have to ask who is running the great region of The North Pacific the natives or Taijitu? Once the truth is found out there will be a price to pay and the Gatesville wolf is now on the loose.
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He talked to me.

He threatened to destroy the treaty he has with TNP, and told me that he Quote "never burns his bridges" and still has people here who will do his bidding.

He also claimed that he had absolute proof TNP is controlled by "Taijitu Scum" and as usual tried to recruit me to his cause, granting full forgiveness if "I confessed my sins to the Goddess in TEP".
 
Disturbing news indeed. I would encourage Elu and other high influence/high endo nations to build up their endocount.
 
We should wait for Gates' announcement, then go on a full diplomatic blitz against Gatesville and its allies, namely The Empire and The New Inquisition.

First off, I expect the Azure Articles will be passing (hopefully) around this time, so that will be a good thing.

Secondly, I say we officially recognize the old TEP government as the official representatives of the region.

Thirdly, and this is a minor thing but will certainly tick GV and TNI off, we recognize the TNI breakaway region of Florence as sovereign.

Oh, finally, I think we need to start building up some sort of military force. I've noticed Heft has not been that active, so I'd be glad to organize some sort of small expeditionary force to take the fight to GV and its allies if hostilities do indeed break out.

EDIT: I know Heft's been busy, that was not an insult or anything.
 
I do not think we need to go on the offensive over this, nor should we be looking to give gatesville reason to break our treaty.
 
Ah. Didn't spot that.

Gates is being pretty open dropping his usual oh-so-subtle hints about military action.

He also seems to be taking the Azure treaty pretty personally too.
 
gates:
Flemingovia why don’t you go back to TNP where the forum is dead, and your actions here may cause me to revoke out treaty with your region. Do you want to be in the spot light I have to ask? Get out and stay out you have no business here.
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I've spoken to Gates in private.

GV wants us to officially be neutral on the East Pacific and a statement that TNP is not responsible for flemingovia's actions. ... or they are breaking the treaty.

I am inclined to, politely, tell them to GTFO and that it's none of their business. If they want to end the treaty, that's their choice. However, I do not believe I should simply make such a choice.

I have told Gates I will respond to that within 36 hours.

For reference, this is the treaty:

From this day forth, let there be peace between the peoples of Gatesville and the peoples of The North Pacific (TNP) who dwell on Z13 and in the regions they represent.

1. By this treaty the people of Gatesville and the people of TNP put behind them all insults, satire and ultimata posted on RMBs, offsite forums and IRC channels. In particular, TNP apologizes for the hurt and insults given to Gatesville by Flemingovia. In penance Flemingovia shall display an appropriate avatar and signature for the period of one month.

2. The founder, delegate, government and people of Gatesville and TNP shall respect the sovereign right of the other region to determine their own affairs. They will not infiltrate, engage in espionage, or move troops into the other region unless it to fight a third party invader, at the request of the region’s government.

3. All Gatesville troopers and their allies currently deployed in TNP shall be immediately recalled, both parties to this treaty acknowledging that they have fought well and with honour, and have achieved redress for the insults that led to their deployment to TNP.

This treaty is witnessed this day between our governments and regions. Let this treaty be the start of friendship between our regions, as the past is consigned to the past and we look to a future of peace and prosperity for both our regions.

Signed,

Gates the god
Great Bights Mum
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Their reasoning for wanting to cancel the treaty is obviously just an excuse. But my understanding is that, if they do cancel the treaty, it's basically re-opening hostilities between our two regions, and a precursor to them attempting (possibly with TEP help now) to take TNP over again. But, yea, they can screw off.

edit:

TEP/GV treaty, posted on the TEP forums.

Treaty Between Gatesville and The East Pacific

The signing of this treaty between the governments of Gatesville and The East Pacific shows recognition of the sovereignty of each other’s regions by both parties. By signing, the great and mighty regions of Gatesville and The East Pacific agree to the following provisions:

I. Each government will show full support and cooperation to each other in matters of regional defense.
II. Each government agrees to share intelligence relating to the security and well being of their counterpart.
III. Each government pledges to maintain an active embassy within the other region to ensure an uninterrupted means of communication.
IV. Each government is encouraged, though not required, to support each other in matters of regional sovereignty, WA matters, and foreign affairs not directly between the two governments.
V. This treaty may be amended or updated as necessary upon agreement of all the undersigned or their approved substitute/successor.

By forming this alliance, the regions of Gatesville and The East Pacific affirm their strong ties and pledge support for each other until the end of days.

Gatesville:

Gates the God – Founder
Darkesia – WA Delegate
Kostemetsia – WA Advocate
Kraut Killers – Foreign Affairs Advocate
Dar-Zarruk – Internal Affairs Advocate
Sudros - General of the Gatesville Guard
The GM Warden – Consiglieri
Nikocujo – Intelligence Advocate

The East Pacific:
Lady Phedre -- Empress
Lord Rahl
Darkseid
High Priest Rashidi
Lady Anastasia
Condition 13
ChuckNorris
Lady Edea
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Also, Gates has given me one more chance to join them.

Should I accept the offer to "join" in order to "be a double agent" and use the position to continue to pump Gates for information?
 
please do distance yourselves from my actions. I am in TEP for two reasons: Firstly, becuase I was invited there by those who recognise I have a certain expertise in these situations, and secondly because, frankly, I really enjoy the satire etc, especially when you are dealing with groups as pompous as Gatesville.

It would, in fact, free my hand if I were not cautious of the consequences for TNP.

But when/if you do make sure you refer to me as "flemingovia of TNP, the Meritocracy and Taijitu." I want to remind gatesville that I am not JUST TNP.
 
I don't want war but I don't think we should be pushed around by these jacka$$es just because we're not militant. A war in two feeders? Yeah Gates is only going to secure their own downfall. Should this occur though... with the passing of the Azure treaty, we need to shore up our allies...
 
I've been banned from the Gatesville forum.

I haven't even posted there about a month and a half, and I've never posted anything critical of GV on its own forums.

There is absolutely no reason for them to be doing this other than pettyness.
 
The treaty is voided and we are now at a state of war my High Councils statement.


The Foreign Affairs Department of Gatesville officially announces the dissolution of the treaty with The North Pacific due to tensions in The East Pacific. The treaty was made in good faith with the understanding that neither region would try to destabilize the other and that both would work on friendly terms. However, two highly influential members of TNP, Flemingovia and Kharkistania, have been actively slandering members of the Gatesville High Council in the East Pacific and in general destroying the bond between our two regions. Gatesville is willing to reestablish the treaty with no prejudices if both Flemingovia and Kharkistania are officially reprimanded by the government of TNP.
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I'd suggest something like this.

The North Pacific recognizes a state of war with Gatesville, as initiated by Gatesville's consistently belligerent actions.

At no point did The North Pacific take hostile action against Gatesville or against The East Pacific. We had made it clear in private that the actions of Flemingovia and Kharkistania were not in anyway associated with or sanctioned by this government. Both parties are members of multiple regions, yet it is only this region that Gatesville has chosen to single out.

Over the course of the last few days, it became apparent that Gatesville had every intention of voiding the peace treaty that had been signed between our wo regions and which had, despite lingering tensions, maintained peace for a number of months.

First, it was claimed that we had violated the treaty. As we never acted against Gatesville, this was obviously false. So, they claimed it was because of our actions in The East Pacific, a region and regime with no relation to the treaty. Even so, we, again, had never engaged in any hostile action against that region, and this was obviously just an excuse. In fact, TNP nations, including government members, had provided material support to the Empire from the beginning, and it was not until Lord Rahl posted a threatening letter to our region claiming we would be "purified" that anyone from TNP began to take any serious issue or notice.

So, then, it was claimed we had violated the "spirit" of the treaty, because supposedly we had nations disparaging the reputation of Gatesville. Given that the treaty was simply a peace treaty, and given that we had not mounted any campaign of slander and, in fact, there were relatively few negative comments aimed at Gatesville, this was yet another excuse. Especially considering the numerous disparaging remarks that have been made about us or our members.

Regardless of all of this, we were prepared to meet Gatesville at least part of the way. After discussions with the Gatesville delegate, Darkesia, we agreed to make a public statement expressing that we were in no way related to, endorsing, or sanctioning the actions of Flemingovia or Kharkistania.

Gates then turned around a few hours later and threw this agreement out, initially insisting that we "cast out" the "scum." A short time later, with no real dialogue and without waiting to hear from our Delegate and President, Eluvatar, Gates announced that the treaty had been voided and then that we were in a state of war.

While disappointing, this is hardly surprising, given that their intentions from the beginning seemed to simply be to drum up an excuse to void the treaty. So, then, while we have not sought out conflict with anyone, conflict has been brought to our doorstep. Gates will regret his hubris and reactionary behavior, as we will not submit to his ego.
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Heft:
The treaty is voided and we are now at a state of war my High Councils statement.


The Foreign Affairs Department of Gatesville officially announces the dissolution of the treaty with The North Pacific due to tensions in The East Pacific. The treaty was made in good faith with the understanding that neither region would try to destabilize the other and that both would work on friendly terms. However, two highly influential members of TNP, Flemingovia and Kharkistania, have been actively slandering members of the Gatesville High Council in the East Pacific and in general destroying the bond between our two regions. Gatesville is willing to reestablish the treaty with no prejudices if both Flemingovia and Kharkistania are officially reprimanded by the government of TNP.
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I'd suggest something like this.

The North Pacific recognizes a state of war with Gatesville, as initiated by Gatesville's consistently belligerent actions.

At no point did The North Pacific take hostile action against Gatesville or against The East Pacific. We had made it clear in private that the actions of Flemingovia and Kharkistania were not in anyway associated with or sanctioned by this government. Both parties are members of multiple regions, yet it is only this region that Gatesville has chosen to single out.

Over the course of the last few days, it became apparent that Gatesville had every intention of voiding the peace treaty that had been signed between our wo regions and which had, despite lingering tensions, maintained peace for a number of months.

First, it was claimed that we had violated the treaty. As we never acted against Gatesville, this was obviously false. So, they claimed it was because of our actions in The East Pacific, a region and regime with no relation to the treaty. Even so, we, again, had never engaged in any hostile action against that region, and this was obviously just an excuse. In fact, TNP nations, including government members, had provided material support to the Empire from the beginning, and it was not until Lord Rahl posted a threatening letter to our region claiming we would be "purified" that anyone from TNP began to take any serious issue or notice.

So, then, it was claimed we had violated the "spirit" of the treaty, because supposedly we had nations disparaging the reputation of Gatesville. Given that the treaty was simply a peace treaty, and given that we had not mounted any campaign of slander and, in fact, there were relatively few negative comments aimed at Gatesville, this was yet another excuse. Especially considering the numerous disparaging remarks that have been made about us or our members.

Regardless of all of this, we were prepared to meet Gatesville at least part of the way. After discussions with the Gatesville delegate, Darkesia, we agreed to make a public statement expressing that we were in no way related to, endorsing, or sanctioning the actions of Flemingovia or Kharkistania.

Gates then turned around a few hours later and threw this agreement out, initially insisting that we "cast out" the "scum." A short time later, with no real dialogue and without waiting to hear from our Delegate and President, Eluvatar, Gates announced that the treaty had been voided and then that we were in a state of war.

While disappointing, this is hardly surprising, given that their intentions from the beginning seemed to simply be to drum up an excuse to void the treaty. So, then, while we have not sought out conflict with anyone, conflict has been brought to our doorstep. Gates will regret his hubris and reactionary behavior, as we will not submit to his ego.
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I see.

How about this:

Statement:
The North Pacific recognizes a state of war with Gatesville, as initiated by Gatesville.

At no point did The North Pacific take hostile action against Gatesville or against The Empire. Indeed, the North Pacific even supported them before it was outright threatened by The Empire's Lord Rahl. We had made it clear in private that the actions of Flemingovia and Kharkistania were not in anyway sanctioned by this government. Both parties are members of multiple regions, yet it is only this region that Gatesville has chosen to single out.

Over the course of the last few days, it became apparent that Gatesville intended to void the peace treaty that had been signed between our two regions and which had, despite lingering tensions, maintained peace for a number of months.

First, it was claimed that we had violated the treaty. As we never acted against Gatesville, this was obviously false. Then, they claimed it was because of our actions in The East Pacific, a region and regime with no relation to the treaty. Even so, we, again, had never engaged in any hostile action in that region, and this was obviously just an excuse. In fact, TNP nations, including government members, had provided material support to the Empire from the beginning, and it was not until Lord Rahl posted a threatening letter to our region claiming we would be "purified" that anyone from TNP began to take any serious issue or notice.

So, then, it was claimed we had violated the "spirit" of the treaty, because supposedly we had nations disparaging the reputation of Gatesville. Given that the treaty was simply a peace treaty, and given that we had not mounted any campaign of slander and, in fact, there were relatively few negative comments aimed at Gatesville, this was yet another excuse. Especially considering the numerous disparaging remarks that have been made about us or our members.

Regardless of all of this, we were prepared to meet Gatesville at least part of the way. After discussions with the Gatesville delegate, Darkesia, we agreed to make a public statement expressing that we were in no way related to, endorsing, or sanctioning the actions of Flemingovia or Kharkistania.

Gates then turned around a few hours later and threw this agreement out, insisting that we "cast out" the "scum." A short time later, with no real dialogue and without waiting to hear from our Delegate and President, Eluvatar, Gates announced that the treaty had been voided and then that we were in a state of war.

While disappointing, this is hardly surprising, given that their intentions from the beginning appears to have been simply to drum up an excuse to void the treaty. So, then, while we have not sought out conflict with anyone, conflict has come to our doorstep. Gates will regret his hubris and reactionary behavior, as we will not submit to his ego. We will never submit.

President Eluvatar
Minister of Defense Heft
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This may give you a chuckle. It is a PM I got on the old TEP board from Lord RAhl, including my reply.

if anyone CAN see the thread linked, I would enjoy seeing what it says. Since I do not know of any "secret board" I am pretty sure i have not posted there:

flemingovia

http://z7.invisionfree.com/the_purified_la...p?showtopic=366

As you may have seen, your involvement with The Confederacy has been noted. I have kept your involvement in the secret forums quiet for now.

If you agree to stop your activities immediately and pull out of The East Pacific, we will not make an issue of this with your government and fan the flames an international scandal. If you agree to support The Empire, we will even applaud you as a savior of The East Pacific.

The choice is yours, choose carefully.
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Lord Rahl,

Three teensy points:

1. I cannot read the link you sent: it is not visible to me.

2. OOC: I quite honestly have no idea what you are talking about "secret forums." the only forum I have posted on is this one (z1), and I think I can only see the same forums here as anyone else. I think you are barking up the wrong tree. So do not make accusations or you will end up looking very silly.

3. I think activities overnight, including your declaration of war against TNP, have rather overtaken your threats, don't you?

Yours in friendship

Flemingovia.
 
I'm not quite sure where to place this little reminder concerning the state of war with Gatesville, but TNP Law 14, which contains special wartime provisions remains part of our law and would clearly be useful:

TNP Law 14 -Wartime Provisions:
TNP LAW 14
Wartime Provisions

Section 1: Wartime Provisions

No player maintaining a nation in a region at war with TNP may maintain a nation within TNP, or participate in the governance thereof, for the duration of hostilities. Any player found doing so will be stripped of membership in the Regional Assembly and subject to banishment from the region. A "region at war" is any region which has made a formal declaration, or made acts of war against The North Pacific, or vice versa, as deemed by decision by the Security Council. War does not constitute actions taken by or against the North Pacific Army unless the conflict meets the conditions above. A state of war exists until a formal peace treaty, surrender terms, or similar, is/are recognized.
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Flem, it's the thread where they reveal the Confederacy's "secret" forum or discussions. You aren't quoted, but one quote does mention you. Rahl's OP:

I would like to thank our Lady of the Shadows, the Lady Anastasia, for gathering proof that the Confederacy is bringing external forces to bear against The East Pacific and that they are unwilling to work with the Empire.

These are from their secret forum, facepalm. The same kind of secret forum they have accused us of with such distaste and disdain.

We will not surrender the Empire to the Confederacy. We will work with them, we will attempt a compromise, but we will not submerge ourselves in their foolish pride so that they can feel important again.

Here are some selected quotes. I hope you appreciate them as much as I did, it brightened my day knowing they are even more petty then they accuse the Empire of being.

I'm sorta ok with this but a few things on her side must be done:

1. Lord rahl must never be in the new government.
2. Lady Phedre must apologise for the actions she and her government committed and must openly identify who she is.
3. The foreigners who are supporting in the invading group must leave within 48 hours.
4. All forum activity must be done here. It's too much hassle with multiple forums.
5. Gnidrah gets put back into power.
6. No monarchical or hereditary style titles should be used. We're a confederacy, not a monarchy.

My 2 cents, for what it's worth
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Govindia

as I have said te others all assistance is accepted with open arms.
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Loop

Its visible to me. Though thats not necessarily preferable. I've declared neutrality in this affair, after all, and actually did initiate negotiations with the empire without governmental permission. So, yeah.

A question, though. Hypothetically speaking, if I had a secret puppet, and I wanted to help out the movement by TGing/endorsing people, what would be a good message to send to people? Hypothetically speaking, of course, I'd never actually do it.
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Free Pacific States

not sure something like
"Hello [friend/comrade/lover/nation name].

I am [your name] a supporter of the Free East Pacific, and I wauld like to ask that you endorse
[Gnidrah/Kelssek/ect] to allist us in returnig the region to freedom and releasing in from the grip of the invader Phedre.

Thankyou
[your name]"

you may went te express an interest in unendorsing Phedre as well

I cannot say what you should say but that is kinda what I would say
Flem could probably provide a better speack though. 
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Infinate Loop

Don't confuse them to much, if you do it. Giving more then one region to endorse will cause a good portion of people to say 'screw it'. Most will only endorse the people who send the TG's.

Suggesting that they unendorse the Delegate Lady Phedre, that's usually a good idea.

Hypothetically, of course.
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Biyah

Don't make any concessions. We can, with work, remove her from power.

She's not going to work with anyone but herself and her 'clan' of friends, and she's happy to lie and go back on her word at any time if it fits her.

She also doesn't respect a member's ownership of their own posts.

*Just manually edit/deleted all of his posts.*
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Warr

It's nice, but I wouldnt expect it.[Consessions to join The Confederacy] They would be giving up all control, and Loop has already pissed off one of their Admins, Rahl, by posting his IP on the open board.

Considering they just removed two people from the board for being annoyances, I rather doubt they would conform to the board rules here.

Still, when they fail to respond in the positive, you can use that against them propoganda wise.
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Biyah
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And then there's a bunch of talk about the ebil double-dealing Confederacy and then some talk and light argument about how the negotiations are being handled, or mishandled, by one or both sides, etcetc.

Rahl also posted this somewhere in there:

There are a few other people involved whose involvement I have kept secret, for now. All of them have been contacted in private.

If the results of my private messages are not satisfactory, then their involvement in the 'secret movement' will be exposed.
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About two weeks ago I considered posting something, but decided not to due to fears that the information might get leaked to Gatesville and give them an excuse to attack us. Also, it is a screenshot of a MSN conversation with Gates, and I know those are always controversial.

Anyways, while this may be old news, I wanted to provide proof positive that Gates has been conspiring against us for some time and the meltdown regarding the Empire of TEP are just and excuse. I'm mainly doing this to counter the Gatesville Apologists claims that we somehow started this.

I've decided to let the Cabinet debate whether to release this publicly or not.

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u57/Out...nia/gates-1.png
 
Well we didn't start this. SO i don't know what all that talk is about.

What specifically is said that Gates is conspiring against us? The old shots where Gates and them were talking in the old regimes forum is more damaging I would say.
 
My main qualm against releasing this is that would antagonize Gates.

While I don't normally care about that sort of thing, it is my belief that at least part of Gatesville's war on TNP is a personal grudge against me and Flem, and before I antagonize Gates anymore I want to see how the latest developments will affect this war- IE, Operation Jeff Probst, which I concieved of, and Flem's write-up on it.

If my theory about a personal grudge is correct, then these two events would certainly constitute a perceived double-whammy against Gates.

In short, I don't want to escalate this war any further without some sort of consensus amongst the TNP's leaders.
 
Got a PM from Gates. I bold the two sections that may be relevant:

LOL looks like the “good old boys” got caught in the mean time I’m building my armada in mass to attack you in force. You have cast the first stone and you’ve decided to mess with the best so there will have to be a price to pay. I will order all Gatesville GIA [ Gatesville Intelligence Agency] members to spread the word within TNP that it always has and always will be run by a select few. Until now! Bless you Flem but your plot to control TNP has been exposed.
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It will be interesting to see who shouts loudest about the "old guard" in the coming days. GAtes has always boasted that he has people in TNP who will do his bidding.
 
my reply was, as always , peaceable....

Assembling an armada? Good lord, you do not mean that you are actually going to come in the front door, do you? I thought your way was generally to slither in the back door like the slug you are

Hmmm.... I can sense a new character being created - Gates the Hutt from Star Wars. Watch out for it, and enjoy the laughter.

F.
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No offense Gates, but honestly, the best way to go about a cover-up mission is to...well...keep it covered up.

Although for some people, their ego dictates them to the point where they lose all their real capabilities. For instance, by sending such a TG to a TNP admin - who posts it for all to see on the forums. So either:

A) Its all hot air...a simple scare tactic - because real GV spies are having no luck.

B) We're going to see this thing coming from a mile away.

:eyeroll:
 
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