NK's Files

Gonvindia Hearing: 1/25/08:
Please state your full nation name.
Full Nation Name: The Parliamentary Republic of Ramaba

In the past six months, where has it been located?
November to December it was in Lazarus for a short while then moved to The North Pacific after Great bights Mum said she didn't mind me being in TNP.  Before that, it was THe West pacific

If I may ask a question myself, for the understanding of the court, do you have nations elsewhere in NationStates? If so, what are their names and where are they located?
Ok,  my other nations are Arvengovi - Taijitu, classified defender nation for 10000 Islands, Govindia - 10000 Islands, Marionetsvia - First Reich of Der Fuhrer, Ramaba - TNP, Romabengal - Tokugawa Japan, Nidrama - Gatesville, Jack Bauer of CTU - Order of the Templars (my own region - only one person in there), Yautjla - Nasicournia, TJ Embassy - One Big Island

Have you ever been banned from a forum or "chat room"?
Yes.

Please state which.
Forum: The East Pacific, Taijitu, The West Pacific.  Chatroom: TNP (lifted), FRA, TWP, Taijitu, Equilism. I apologised to Moo-Cows for the remark, as i confused him for someone else from another dispute unrelated to the channel or the forum.  I have spoken with Lewis_and_Clark recently and he said he would reconsider allowing me to return to the channel after a week as of last week.

For the benefit of the court, to Moo-cows, what was the post about?
Again, I confused him with someone else, who I thought was not being sympathetic and acting like  a decent person, from an issue elsewhere

Was this a public, written, apology?
No, private, as it was first brought up privately

And Moo, may you please verify such display of apology?
20:57:42 <Govindia> dude, i mistook you for someone else from another forum, ok?  i am sorry MC - Moo

Do you hold any criminal records in any of the regions you are a member, or have been a member of in the past?
Yes.


May you, for the benefit of the court, please go into detail as to what those records entail?
TEP - I was in an RP dispute that got out of hand on both sides, and without trial I was banned.  TSP - I was accused of defaming someone during a heated legislative dispute, and stalking someone, though I never actually stalked someone.  When Goddessness banned me from TSP, she did not give a reason except that i was a security threat, and did not grant me a trial as i was supposed to have one, and could not show me the evidence to refute or defend against

I do understand there are members of the South Pacifican Government present. When Govindia is finished with his statement, may you please verify if his statement in regards to TSP is true?

TWP - I was accused of being a security threat to the region without being allowed to see evidence to refute during the trial to refute such claims.  There were cliams I pasesed on info to raiders when no evidence was presented neither to the court nor to the senate publicly for the defence to refute.  By TWP law, unless the region is in martial law, the delegaet is not actually required to present evidence, only state why he banned someone to the senate and to only show to the senate for voting, and the senate approved it.  and the court ruled that for that reason, for that legal technicality, the ban was legal, so they ruled following the law to the letter strictly.  Loosely, it could also mean TAO's required to present eveidnce, but the was not loosely interperted.

Taijitu - I was accused of being a security threat without the prosecution presenting evidnce to the the defence, and they claimed that my personality is a threat tto the region, and resorted to using only nothing but character statements crticisiing me.  The justices never actually used the evidence that was privately presented to them from the prosecution, but withheld from the defence, and ruled that my citizenship was to be revoked and that i could stiland going against the ban, Limi banned me for three months from the forum, without cause or ability for me to defend against such actions to the court, claiming I use proxies without providing evidence and going against the court's decision, as revocation of citizenship does not mean ban from a forum.  My nation is still in the region of Taijitu though. 

You stated in more than one instance that the acusation of use of proxies was used against you, do I understand that correctly ?
It's only been claimed in Taijitu. I do not use any proxies.  I am on a wireless secured router at home, and i access the net from my work, which is on two separate connections for certain reasons.

Do you accept the decision of the court in TWP as legal ?
Legally, no, because I do not interpret the law as strictly as they do.  I do believe there should be some wiggle room instead of reading it to the letter - that is, if someone is banned, and i were a justice, I would ask to see evidence from both ends of the trial - prosecution and defence.


Then you consider the court and government of TWP illegitimate ?
No, I did not say that. The court and government have been legally elected and appointed.

But you object to the court's interpretation of the constitution and laws of TWP ?
I am allowed to disagree with their decision, even if they were legitimately appointed/elected.  I disagree with the court's decision yes, but i never thought it was invalid in terms of legitimacy to hold the bench.

As you are involved in a number of regions, where do you consider your loyalites to be placed ?
Each region where I have a politically active nation in i have equal loyalties to

As a correlary question, which do you believe is more important in NS, support and defense of an ideology, or support and defense of the policies of a legitimate government?
I believe it is more important to support the ideology of defending, which TWP has been strongly been accustomed with for much of its history, than to support new policies.

Why should you be permitted to apply for RA membership?
I want to help TNP be a great and strong region.  I believe my legislative experience and NS experience will allow me to show I am willing to work with people to better improve the region, and I want to show that I am a useful person and not a hindrance on TNP RA.  I have strong experience as a defender, and an ambassador as well.  I can also help with recruitment and spambusting, and I am friendly to everyoen who is with me, as I like to meet new people an

All those allowed to vote: Should we continue or pass judgement now?  1 for continue, 2 for judgement.
Dalimbar - 2
Lewis and Clark - 1
New Kervoskia - 2

Do we deem Govindia a security threat?
Dalimbar - Aye
Lewis and Clark - Aye
New Kervoskia - Aye

Mr Delegate, as the executive authority do you accept the decision of this hearing?
I do.

With that in mind, the request made by Govindia to have permission to apply to the RA is rejected. He may appeal in 15 days.
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Because it's in clear violation of the law.

TNP Law 28 Art 2 Sec 1 states that allowing members into the RA is the sole responsibilty of the Speaker.

While the applicant is clearly in violation of using proxy servers (his conviction as evidence) prohibited in TNP law 28 Sec 1 5a, the Justice Minister has no authority in judging who is allowed to apply or be accepted.

In fact this abuse of power is an oath violation as per TNP Law#1.

Obviously this is a new government and new constitution but it is a violation. Shouldn't our Justice minister like you know, know about the law?

I speak as CLO of course, please correct me if I've missed something.
 
Indeed. From our Constitution:

5. The Delegate is responsible for the security of the region, and is charged with the use of regional controls to eject and ban nations from the region in accordance with the laws of TNP.
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The Justice Minister was acting on behalf of the delegate. Further, Govindia consented to the hearing. I don't see the issue here.
 
mr_sniffles:
Because it's in clear violation of the law.

TNP Law 28 Art 2 Sec 1 states that allowing members into the RA is the sole responsibilty of the Speaker.

While the applicant is clearly in violation of using proxy servers (his conviction as evidence) prohibited in TNP law 28 Sec 1 5a, the Justice Minister has no authority in judging who is allowed to apply or be accepted.

In fact this abuse of power is an oath violation as per TNP Law#1.

Obviously this is a new government and new constitution but it is a violation. Shouldn't our Justice minister like you know, know about the law?

I speak as CLO of course, please correct me if I've missed something.
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5. The Delegate is responsible for the security of the region, and is charged with the use of regional controls to eject and ban nations from the region in accordance with the laws of TNP.
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The Speaker of the Assembly, or a deputy so appointed by the Speaker, shall be responsible for processing and confirming the Assembly membership of applicants.
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The text does not state that permission to apply to the RA is in the hands of the Speaker, merely accepting or denying applications. It is a matter of regional security. We are well within the law to review security threats and to prevent them from seeping into regional institutions.
 
mr_sniffles:
How did his application affect regional security and how was the Speaker incapable of judging this?
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As the Speaker does not venture off this site, he would be unaware of the extensive evidence presented in the Hearing, or the extensive issue that have arrisen with this personality across NS.

Further, the Speaker is not entrusted with the Security of the region, rather with the functioning and membership of the RA. The Executive Branch is entrusted with regional security.

The petitioner has been shown, as evidenced in the testimony, to have constituted and threat to the security and well being of a number of friendly regions. We appreciate and recognize those issues, and have found Govinda to be obstructive and at counter-purposes to the well being of those regions.

As was also noted, Govinda has the opportunity for appeal in 15 days.
 
New Kervoskia:
mr_sniffles:
What was the clear and present threat did the applicant posed?
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For one is a threat to diplomatic stability with TWP. Two he has repeatedly used proxies to gain access to forums. Three his loyalties are questionable and unstable.
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Thank you for answering my questions. I ask that you keep these in mind when you decide on letting back in Emp Matt, the Lexicon, and Limitless Events.
 
I'm speaking as the chair of the CLO, and as Speaker in terms of Law 28.

"Security of the Region" is a vague standard. I have a serious concern about the restriction being placed on a resident's right to act as a citizen of The North Pacific under the protection of the Bill of Rights. The Constitution placed in the hands of the Regional Assembly the power to determine a uniform procedure on applications for membership in the Regional Assembly. Law 28 implemented that standard.

Law 28 specifies that the Speaker is to be provided any intelligence or other information concerning an applicant for Regional Assembly membership. The procedure that has been followed is not part of a uniform applicarion process. As far as I know, this person has never been convicted in a judicial proceeding in TNP, and from the transcript it would appear he has never been ejected or banned from TNP in the past. Whether the purported proceedings of, or events in, some other region has standing in a Law 28 application is a question that will have to be decided when it arises in the appropriate circumstances.

However, it's clear the Constitution and the Bill of Rights do not expressly provide for restricting the right of a resident to apply for membership in the Regional Assembly when that resident has not violated TNP law. If there is an issue, then it should be presented once an application is made to become a member of the Regional Assembly, not as a step that precedes its filing that is not clearly authorized in the Constitution, the Bill of Rights, and in this instance, Law 28.

This does not mean that the Executive cannot collect information to present to the Speaker when an application is filed, but that is not what happened here.
 
The Constitution and the Bill of Rights does not deny that ability either. It is irrelevant whether it is vague or not, it there, Mr Speaker. We did not interfere with the application process as he never applied in the first place which means it's out of your court.

The RA deals with application process, not with those applying to apply. If you cannot understand that, then I suggest you come back when you do.
 
There is no requirement anywhere in TNP Law that requires permission to apply for Regional Assembly membership. The objection Mr. Sniffles and I are raising does not mean that this person would be entitled to automatic acceptance of the application for membership in the Regional Assembly, the objection is that there is no basis in our regional law to impose such a procedure.

Placing an unauthorized condition on the exercise of the right of a nation of The North Pacific to seek membership in the Regional Assembly would appear to be a violation of the Constitution, the Bill of Rights, law 28, and, for those officials who have imposed it, their oath of office.

It would appear that a referral to the Council of Lower Officials is going to be required.
 
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