Dalimbar

I have read your posts. I am not inferring that you desire a non-democratic government. But the way you want to go about that is not democratic, as it circumvents our Constitution which was decided upon by a democratic vote.

Your intentions for an less bureaucratic democratic government are noble. However, the means by which you propose we get there are not. Suspending elections is not democratic.

If we so desire democracy, let's gain it through democratic means. We can let elections occur so as to put new people into power.

If we truly have faith in democracy there is no reason to suspend elections.
 
Ator People:
I have read your posts. I am not inferring that you desire a non-democratic government. But the way you want to go about that is not democratic, as it circumvents our Constitution which was decided upon by a democratic vote.

Your intentions for an less bureaucratic democratic government are noble. However, the means by which you propose we get there are not. Suspending elections is not democratic.

If we so desire democracy, let's gain it through democratic means. We can let elections occur so as to put new people into power.

If we truly have faith in democracy there is no reason to suspend elections.
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The constitution is failing us and is choking the region. Any government that is beholden to such a document is no longer working for the betterment of the people or the region. And that should be the main task of any constitution. There are good people in this government and they have good intentions. Good intentions are not enough to make a region what it should be.

What can we gain from a broken democracy that suffers under a cumbersome constitution? Fix the system and constitution then focus on elections would seem the most logical path at this current juncture.
 
I am trying to understand where you are coming from.

You say that this administration hasn't done anything to stop inactivity.

And yet you refuse to let the people pick new leaders.

If you believe you are doing this for the good of the region, why won't you let the region vote and voice their opinion on the matter?

I'm sorry, I just don't see the logic. :blink:
 
We should allow Dalimbar to act as our placeholder, shall we say, until we make a new constitution and institute it, much the way Stars of Sky acted after Pixie.
 
Blue Wolf II:
We should allow Dalimbar to act as our placeholder, shall we say, until we make a new constitution and institute it, much the way Stars of Sky acted after Pixie.
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Then the only legitimate way to do that is through some sort of law motion passed by the Regional Assembly.

I do not believe anyone has made such a proposal as of now.
 
Ator People:
I am trying to understand where you are coming from.

You say that this administration hasn't done anything to stop inactivity.

And yet you refuse to let the people pick new leaders.

If you believe you are doing this for the good of the region, why won't you let the region vote and voice their opinion on the matter?

I'm sorry, I just don't see the logic. :blink:
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I am not wuite sure on how you are missing the point, but I assume it is due to the fact that you think the government is fine and the constitution is actually working. But, since I am not alone in believing that our constitution has created a cumbersome bureaucracy that is choking off activity I do not see how electing a new government under the same document would actually fix anything.

The people can still have a voice Ator People, no one is denying them that. Elections need to be put off until we can rework the constitution so that it allows more flexibility and a more efficient manner for which we can manage our region.

The current administration has done little or nothing to fix the current mess we are mired in. Rather they are wasting time in holding recall votes on government officials who are actually trying to do some thing and who give a damned about the well being of TNP.
 
Ator People:
Then the only legitimate way to do that is through some sort of law motion passed by the Regional Assembly.

I do not believe anyone has made such a proposal as of now.
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And rightfully so. How many times must I say this? The Constitution has failed, our government has failed. It would be pointless to propose such a thing under our failed system; no good would come of it. Instead we must scrap this failed experiment and try again with a different approach. No re-plastering, the structure is rotten.
 
Blue Wolf II:
Instead we must scrap this failed experiment and try again with a different approach. No re-plastering, the structure is rotten.
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But one cannot tear down the house without consent of the owners first. And such consent comes from a vote. Why are we so afraid to let the people vote?
 
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Some of us here appear to suck at maintaining a sense of legitimacy. Remember: you are still members of this government. You have the rights and privileges that come with the position. Don't abuse it. Having said that, yes--you guessed it. It's time to call people out.

BWII and Joshua: What the hell do you think you're doing? If you want to support a rogue delegate, resign your damn posts and do so. A ministry is not a little duchy to which you are warlord of. Sure, Dalimbar broke the law, but while this government is still semi-functional, while there is still the avenue of negotiation and reconciliation with Dali open to us, you should maintain the decorum demanded of your station. Your actions only further push the region to war. Do whatever you want as individuals, but while you carry government badges next to your name, act for the betterment of the region through the government. This means reform--not revolution. As far as I'm concerned, your actions amount to treason, but I'm not going to go out and try to get you guys impeached. Because let's face it--there are better things to be doing right now.

Byard: Your recall petitions seem justified but also quite futile. Legitimate definitely, but I think it leaves a sour taste in people's mouths when they see us slogging through the legal paperwork when Dalimbar seemingly concocted this coup in part due to the incredible amount of legal paperwork in this region.

Grosse: The above goes to you, as well. Perhaps legitimate and wholly legal, but after the coup happened and you went around filing the proper documentation to get impeachment going? People laughed. Oh, how they laughed. Did you not realize that by doing that when Dali's words were still so fresh in people's ears, you wholly vindicated his reasoning for his illegal actions?

In short, everyone shut up and try to think of a compromise. Retribution can come later, but you'd be a terrible officer of the region if you are willing to throw peace and a return to order out for strict adherence to a document. The reality of the situation is that Dalimbar is in de facto control. To wrest control from him would launch us into a protracted and region-deadening civil war that would win us no friends. No amount of impeachment proceedings will change this. Avoid this. Work for the region--not a document and not to vainly stir up war so that the greater NS world has something to gawk at.
 
Considering that Dalimbar has now created his own forums and most likely seeks to form his own government, thus showing that he has no real intention of working with the elected government of The North Pacific. I propose that we take drastic action, we give some kind of ultimatum to The West Pacific that they either support us or we cut ties with them.

Thoughts?
 
Emperor Matthuis:
Considering that Dalimbar has now created his own forums and most likely seeks to form his own government, thus showing that he has no real intention of working with the elected government of The North Pacific. I propose that we take drastic action, we give some kind of ultimatum to The West Pacific that they either support us or we cut ties with them.

Thoughts?
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No. They haven't done anything publicly. This would simply come right out of the blue and drag them into something that they haven't been actively involved in.
 
Yes. We're inching ever-so-closer to war. And we need all the allies we can get. It would be best not to try to push our friends into a corner, mmm?
 
Emperor Matthuis:
Considering that Dalimbar has now created his own forums and most likely seeks to form his own government, thus showing that he has no real intention of working with the elected government of The North Pacific. I propose that we take drastic action, we give some kind of ultimatum to The West Pacific that they either support us or we cut ties with them.

Thoughts?
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I'm going to have to veto that one, skipper. Sure for the reason MO already got to, but "support us or bugger off" never works out very well. Moreso if because we make such an ultimatum out of desperation, which we'd be doing, wherein the further we go without support the weaker we get, and so it's just empty cursing which wouldn'ta help us out one bit especially on trying to convince them to help us. What with if they were buggered at us for it they could just put a teeny bit of support for Dalimbar and crush us under making us threats even weaker --what's the danger in being cut off from a dying, powerless message board? Let's keep that in mind, alright me hearties?

Now chin up lads. Remember when we were keeping this url on the RMB? We were successful at that. Even inbetween bouts of "I don't care anymore" and anger we still brought him to the meetinghalfway table a few times -no rock there me little droogies. Viddy well then.
 
The best course of action right now is to go to regions relatively friendly to us and inform them of this development. Emphasize that Dalimbar is forcing us into a corner, has reneged on our cease-fire (of a sort), and is pushing the region down the path to open war. While he has remained quiet and distant, we have been working hard to fashion reform that would be beneficial to the region and be agreeable both to our legitimate government and Dalimbar. Be sure to mention his unendo campaign against us, too.

What bad faith... *sigh*
 
Disappointing, to say the least. I will speak to my friends in The Pacific. I also have contacts in the West to whom I can speak. Perhaps a fresh face in dealing with them might improve things a bit.
 
EM, where do Lazarus and TEP sit on this? And is there anyone close to TSP or TRR?
If we could get open support from them that would be very useful. I can't see that the NPO would support us, but if we could get the other feeders/game regions supporting us it may be easier to get TWP back on side as well. Perhaps we could also talk to ACCEL, TNM, and any other UCR's you can think of that might support us.
 
Well The East as usual are staying neutral, they are very inactive at the moment due to RL problems and RL absences that have affected the whole government excluding Gnidrah.

Gnid did make this post but not on the behalf of TEP, but really his decision goes over there:

Please allow me, if only for a moment, to express a partial viewpoint on this current situation. I typically do not get involved in these sort of issues. However, a statement was solicited of me (and not by the Delegate, mind you), so you'll now have one from me.

Firstly, allow me to clarify, I do not officially speak on behalf of the East Pacific or its government, regardless of the fact that I am Delegate of the East Pacific. Nor do I officially speak on behalf of Hyrule or its government, regardless of the fact that I am Chancellor of Hyrule. So my opinion may not reflect those of the others in the respective regions. That being said, I shall continue.

While I do not fully agree with my friend and colleague, Dalimbar, with regards to his actions, I can honestly say that I support most, if not all of, his reasoning. That's not to say I necessarily disagree with the government, either. So before one suggests I'm riding the fence on this issue, please allow me to explain.

It is my belief that the Delegate should be the head of state; not a ceremonial head of state. (Coming from me, that might sound a bit ironic, considering that I serve as head of state in Hyrule, which essentially makes the Delegate of Hyrule a ceremonial head of state. But it's just what I think, regardless.) In that respect, he or she should have proper authority and ability to perform his or her job in the best interest of the region and its people. Unfortunately, I cannot see that as being the case, in the current system of government of the North Pacific. I feel Dalimbar is too limited and restricted and does not have the required ability to do his job as well as he very well could.

Please do not take that as me saying the current form of government is not working. I cannot and will not be the judge of that; I'm not telling another sovereign region how to run its government. Now, I'm not saying turn the Delegate loose and let him or her rule as they please. I believe in a system of checks and balances. And I think, in part, that's where the rest of the regional government comes in.

I believe in a system of government where, not only does the Delegate have the proper authority to effectively and efficiently do his or her job to his or her fullest potential, but where the rest of the government sees fit that the appropriate laws are passed to aide the Delegate in protecting and properly representing the region and its nations, and the leash on the Delegate is pulled only if he or she crosses the line and does something that is not in the best interest of the region.

I encourage the rest of the regional government to work with Dalimbar; to listen to his ideas and be open-minded about the potential positive changes that can be made. I do not applaud Dalimbar for ignoring and/or going against the constitution, but I do applaud him for his effort, and suggest that he might not have gone to such an extreme were the current government perhaps more open to what he had/has to say.

I do not believe he should be removed from office. I believe he should be given a chance to make a positive difference. I know Dalimbar, and am confident that he holds the best interest of the region he serves at the highest regard. And I'm also confident in the Government of the North Pacific, in that I know it can make the appropriate changes for the betterment of the region. Thank you for your time.
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So not much support from there.


I believe Dezz or Harm told me that Lazarus is staying neutral, they have their own constant threats from some noob invader regions and don't want to get involved.
 
Hmmm. I'm sure that most of them did not expect Dalimbar to institute rule by fiat in his new government. Giving the Delegate a larger role in government does not mean that the Delegate should be the government.

It's worth another try. I'll poke around some regions in a little bit.
 
Just FYI, I sent the following unendo TG to about half of Dalis endorsers (so far):

Greetings fellow national leaders,

Our region faces a grave threat, the UN Delegate – Chodean Kal – has abandoned the democratic government of the region and declared his own dictatorial rule. He will tell you to support him in the interests of “stability” and “security” but what of democracy? What of freedom? What of liberty?

He has created a new forum, deserting the existing community, but we remain at z13.invisionfree.com/tnp

Fight the tyranny of Chodean Kal, fight for the restoration of democracy and liberty. Unendorse Chodean Kal! Endorse as many other nations as you can to show your support for freedom, in particular please endorse Great Bights Mum, Former English Colony and Emperor Matthuis- all trusted members of the region who will restore democracy and freedom to The North Pacific.
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Dalimbar is gone (from the Delegacy at least), he resigned from the UN and left. GBM has taken over as Delegate so all is hunkydory now.
 
Where have some of you been the last month or two?

In any event, I'm in the process of updating masks for elected officials, and will move the Cabinet threads for the last term into a read only subforum as soon as I can.
 
Monte Ozarka:
Lord Valentine:
Haor Chall:
Dalimbar is gone (from the Delegacy at least), he resigned from the UN and left. GBM has taken over as Delegate so all is hunkydory now.
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Why did he resign? Apart from being a big emo.
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Got tired? Plus, after banning EM, he didn't have enough influence to even touch FEC or GBM.
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He didn't need to eject EM -the night before he ejected enough newcomer minnow supporters to keep EM from becoming delegate. He just ejected EM because he hated him. I keep saying you don't need to eject the biggies; ejected their newest minnow supporters is just as good, costs you goose egg influence, and is more showy. When the gap between them and you widens ("you" being hypothetical delegate) their influence drains in relation to yours.

When the endorsement gap between them and you shrinks your influence shrinks in relation to theirs, which is why I was all for everyone continuing to endotart. It can be undone by the previous paragraph, if they're smart, but more difficult to do so. As well as giving a feel of putting more pressure on the guy --Führerbunker syndrome maybe.
 
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