Split from discord masking requests
- Thread starter Imkihca
- Start date
As I am sure you are aware, the Discord server used by TNP is the property of Lord Ravenclaw. Forum admins on TNP, while he has made some of us moderators on Discord, do not have the authority to overrule a ban put in place by the owner of the server, as in this case.Imkihca:
Ultimately, the only sanction that a regional community has over the owner of a forum or IRC or Discord server is to move away and establish elsewhere.
As for the reasons for your ban, I assume it is because of the ongoing dispute you have been having with Lord Ravenclaw. I do not think it is directly because of anything that has happened in TNP. Please do not take this as a definitive answer, since I was not the one who put the ban in place.
Abbey
TNPer
My understanding is that Raven banned you due to harassment and other behaviour that made him feel unsafe on his own Discord server when you're around. As flem said, we don't have the authority to overrule him (nor would I be inclined to), so I would suggest that the matter isn't really up for discussion.
Imkihca
TNPer
flemingovia:
Abbey:
I see, thank you both for your answers.
I am aware that Raven owns the server but I was under the impression TNP was a democracy and as such should not be up to one person and one person alone to ban me for such petty and spiteful reasoning even if they are the one who 'owns' the server. As I did not so much as hint at the dispute between Raven and myself in TNP or TEP's servers (Another server I believe he has banned me from for the same reason) and the issue as I saw it had been resolved I did not have any intention of doing so and I was purely there to socialise, the very same reason I joined all the other GCR Discord servers at the same time.
The supposed 'harassment' I am being accused of is because I pushed in TSP for Raven to relinquish the root ownership of our Discord for this very same reason after he used it out of spite against me for a disagreement that happened elsewhere, the other discord admins of TSP agreed that this was wrong and Raven had crossed the line and while he tried to escape the fact he had done something wrong we persisted till he handed over ownership (Which is completely and very easily possible with Discord by the way, here's a link for you about it if you're curious ~ How do I transfer server ownership). This is something that can easily be verified by speaking to any of the other TSP discord admins.
I personally do not believe fighting an unjust action is harassment and I am rather disappointed with the fact that none of you have come to me to ask the other side about this instead of simply assuming.
As a note, as it seems several people make this mistake, admin actions are not subject to TNP laws, and as such, the fact that TNP is a democracy makes no difference to admin actions. As Raven owns the server, it is his decision how to moderate that server; TNP law does not even mention Discord, and it is a purely private server that Raven allows TNP as a region to use.Imkihca:
It isn't a matter of how TNP chooses to operate... he owns the server, so it is his right what to do with it. If TNPers believe the admin team of any private service is abusing their power, any person is free to make their own service, whether that be forums or a Discord server, and provide that for TNP to use.Imkihca:
I would agree that TNP has their hands tied. Even if they were going to attempt to do anything about it, there's a chance that they wouldn't be able to.
I think this just goes to show Raven's immaturity and selfishness to bring a personal dispute to the level of abusing administrative privileges.
I think this just goes to show Raven's immaturity and selfishness to bring a personal dispute to the level of abusing administrative privileges.
Imkihca
TNPer
As I said in my other post, it is perfectly possible to transfer ownership of a Discord server, making a new one is not at all necessary in a Discord situation and I ain't about to go and make a new TNP server myself anyway.Darcania:
Choosing to allow this kind of behaviour in general though *is* your choice and if it is allowed to happen it will keep happening. How TNP chooses to deal with admin abuse (or not as the case seems to be) is your choice. Anyway I simply wanted an answer, as it seems like this is the best I'm going to get and not something that will be overturned no matter how unjustifiable it is I guess it is what it is.
As a general / philosophical note, not connected with the specifics of anyone's case, Nationstates is a game in which every medium we use is privately owned by someone. That is true whether it is forums, IRC, Discord or even the game itself.
For example, see what Maxx himself wrote in the game's help file:
Access, Free speech, democracy .... it's all a bit of an illusion. We have what we have at the discretion of those who own the various media we use.
That being said, channel owners, forum root admins etc are kept from over abusing their power by the ultimate sanction that a community has - the right to take their custom elsewhere. The Twoslit Experiment found that out to his cost when he overreached himself on the old TNP forum, and the community simply moved to a new forum. Twoslit was left as the absolute ruler ... of a wasteland.
For example, see what Maxx himself wrote in the game's help file:
Access, Free speech, democracy .... it's all a bit of an illusion. We have what we have at the discretion of those who own the various media we use.
That being said, channel owners, forum root admins etc are kept from over abusing their power by the ultimate sanction that a community has - the right to take their custom elsewhere. The Twoslit Experiment found that out to his cost when he overreached himself on the old TNP forum, and the community simply moved to a new forum. Twoslit was left as the absolute ruler ... of a wasteland.
- Pronouns
- He/Him, They/Them
Considering I'm the one who banned your alt account when you evaded you ban - and then sent Sam111 to talk me into letting back on the server when I denied your friend request - I doubt that.Imkihca:
Your continued attempted harassment, blackmail and character assassination of Raven won't happen on TNP's discord server.
Imkihca
TNPer
I was not intending to evade the ban, I was trying to find out why I was banned in the first place.St George:
I have not harassed him, I have fought his spiteful abuses of position. I have not blackmailed him, I have asked him to stop using my graphics after months of this ridiculous behaviour from him. I have not character assassinated him, I have told the truth. A truth might I add that I have plenty of evidence for.
As you refused to speak to me on Discord (which is why i sent the friend request, so we could actually talk instead of just hearing you calling me a liar in a place I can't defend myself) I assume you are happy to buy into Raven's persecution complex and conspiracy theories and to be honest, I don't blame ya since not blindly beliving his word was what started this spat between him and I in the first place and I doubt anyone else wants to deal with this rubbish.
For anyone who is actually interested in the other side of the story, the one that can be verified by screenshots and impartial people, please do hit me up or contact any of the TSP discord admin team to discuss it.
Brunhilde
TNPer
He may very well own the server, but TNP's government and administration team chooses to endorse his server as the region's by making it the region's primary communication platform. If the server owner of the region sponsored server decides to abuse his power to ban someone because of a personal dispute, it is entirely on TNP to decide if they're willing to continue endorsing the decision by featuring the server.Darcania:
Imki, or anyone else, could very easily make another server. This server, however, would not receive a link in the header of this forum or in the WFE. It would not be government sponsored. This one is and as such it should be operated in such a way that properly reflects the region's values rather than being operated in such a way that allows one person to fulfill their own personal agenda.
Imkihca
TNPer
In this case I would I've to know what evidence of my supposed wrongdoing has been presented to the team so I may dispute it and make my case to be unbanned fairly because it does not seem there is any and as I previously stated I did not so much as hint at the dispute because in my eyes it was over.St George:
- Pronouns
- He/Him, They/Them
As I've already said, I'm not going to play your games. You can claim the dispute to be over but you've been spreading your character assassination shit across multiple discords and in PMs. I've seen them, so I know you're lying.
You are banned, and I'm going to say it's very likely you'll remain so.
You are banned, and I'm going to say it's very likely you'll remain so.
- Pronouns
- He/Him, They/Them
You literally just said 'you considered the dispute over' when in the past few days you've been pming people to continue your character assassination of Raven - following on from your attempted blackmail of him - and now you're sitting here pretending to be a victim of some persecution complex.
You're not. Which is a shame, because I found you to be a decent person once.
Edit: this discussion is going nowhere, so I'm no longer going to reply.
You're not. Which is a shame, because I found you to be a decent person once.
Edit: this discussion is going nowhere, so I'm no longer going to reply.
Query answered. Topic locked