Citizens Right To Vote & RA Integrity Act.

PaulWallLibertarian42

PaulWallLibertarian42

TNPer
Citizens Right To Vote & RA Integrity Act

The purpose of this bill is to affirm the right of all persons with a nation residing in the North Pacific who have been forum masked as citizens the fundamental right to vote in elections, stand for office, campaign, and hold elected positions. To create the Ministry of Interior to maintain a list of citizens and to promptly remove any person(s)who have not posted in the TNP forums for 30 days consecutivly. To maintain the Regional Assembly in its current form and keep its continuity.

I agree with r3n and others that all citizens regardless of RA status or not should be able to vote in elections and to run for and hold office. People that enjoy role playing, the executive staff, the NPA, ect. But who do not get excited about debating or voting on legislative changes should have the same rights as any other citizens.

As r3n has said:
"Sure, I never said that these preferences are the same, nor that you or anyone else should be forced to change their preferences. To the contrary, what I did say is that people should be allowed to have their preferences, and be given the right to vote as long as they contribute in some way, whatever that may be.

In the current situation, your preference is treated in a privileged manner compared to the preferences of others'. As a result, those other members that don't prioritize RA are still forced to divert time from their preference to come here. Again, consider the hypothetical situation I mentioned above, where the right to vote or stand for office is dependent on taking part in RPs, the WA, or the NPA. Would you appreciate it that those preferences receive privileges that yours does not?"
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R3ns bill version: Citizenship Bill

I feel this can be accomplished in an easier manner to confer rights to vote and hold office onto citizens while maintaining the current institutions, integrity, setup, and procedures of the esteemed body of the Regional Assembly.

I propose this to the Citizens Lobby for consideration of ALL TNPERS as well as to serve as an informal poll of sorts to see if people favor r3ns bill as written or this alternative version or if r3n has any room to compromise on his bill and if so then we could discuss these changes in his bill if he is agreeable to it.

Below is my suggestions (alot is word for word from r3ns proposal with the exception of editing regional assembly bill language)

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Citizens Right To Vote & RA Integrity Act

1. Article 7, Clause 6 of the Constitution of The North Pacific is hereby amended to read as follows,

6. All government officials, with the exception of members of the Security Council, must maintain membership in the Regional Assembly citizenship while in office.
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2. Article 7, Clause 10 of the Constitution of The North Pacific is hereby amended to read as follows,

10. Candidates in any election must maintain membership in the Regional Assembly citizenship for the fifteen days before immediately preceding the opening of candidacy declarations and throughout the election.
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3. Chapter 3, Section 3.1, Clause 3 of the Codified Law of The North Pacific is hereby amended to read as follows,

In the event that a Chief Justice has not been elected by seven days after the conclusion of a Judicial election, including the conclusion of any required run-off votes, the Chief Justice shall be the Justice who received the highest number of votes in said election. In the event of a tie for highest number of votes, the Chief Justice shall be the one among those tied with the longest period of membership in the Regional Assembly citizenship.
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4. Chapter 4, Section 4.2, Clause 4 of the Codified Law of The North Pacific is hereby amended to read as follows,

"Candidates" are those Regional Assembly members citizens who, during the period of the Election Cycle designated for candidacy declarations, declare themselves or accept a nomination by another Regional Assembly member citizen as a candidate for an office to be chosen at that Election Cycle.
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5. Chapter 4, Section 4.3, Clause 8 of the Codified Law of The North Pacific is hereby amended to read as follows,

Regional Assembly members Citizens shall be provided five days to declare their candidacy.
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6. Chapter 4, Section 4.4, Clause 16 of the Codified Law of The North Pacific is hereby amended to read as follows,

A minimum of two Election Commissioners will be appointed by the Delegate to oversee the candidacy declaration and election processes at least one week before the beginning of the month in which the election is to be held. If an appointment of Election Commissioners has not been made by that time, the Vice Delegate shall promptly make the appointment. Regional Assembly members Citizens serving as government officials are not excluded from appointments under this clause.
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7. Chapter 6, Section 6.2, Clause 17 of the Codified Law of The North Pacific is hereby amended to read as follows,
17. All registered citizens residing in The North Pacific may request information from the Government through the Delegate and the designated officers of the Executive.
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8. Chapter 6 section 6.3 shall be amended to read as follows,

6.3: Mandatory Ministries
22. There will be an Executive Officer charged with the North Pacific's foreign affairs. They will ensure the continued operation of any embassies of the North Pacific and will report on events in the region.
23. There will be an Executive Officer charged with military affairs. They will carry out such legal missions as are authorized by the Delegate, expressly or categorically.
24. There will be an Executive Officer charged with interior affairs. They will be tasked with maintaining a list of citizens of The North Pacific at all times and carry out such duties as it pertains to maintaining such a list.
25. An Executive Officer may sustain multiple roles defined by this Act.
26. The Regional Assembly may elect an Executive Officer should one of the roles defined by this act remain vacant for seven days.
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9. Chapter 9 of the Legal code shall be added and shall read as follows,
Voter Eligibility Act:
1. All citizens with a nation in The North Pacific shall enjoy a right to vote in elections, stand for, campaign for, and hold elected office, except those exempted by law.
2. Citizens with a prior Regional Assembly Block are inelligible to vote or to hold office; in order to regain voting and office holding rights they must have the Regional Assembly overturn the previous block.
3. Citizens with a Regional Assembly Block that prevents them from voting or holding office shall have the forum mask of "Non-voting Citizen".
4. Future Blocks from the Vice Delegate and Regional Assembly shall only preclude entrance into the Regional Assembly, any person blocked from joining the assembly in the future shall still retain all voting and office holding rights.
5. The Ministry of Interior shall at all times maintain a list of all Citizens residing in The North Pacific that have posted in the citizenship thread Registered Citizens
6.The Ministry of Interior will promptly remove any citizens who fail to post in The North Pacific forum for over 30 consecutive days.
7. The Ministry of Interior will prompty remove any citizens who's nation has left the region or ceased to exist.
8. Citizens that have submitted a notice of absence, in accordance with any regulations set by the Ministry of Interior, shall be exempt from the provisions of the above clause for the stated duration of their absence.
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10. Chapter 6, Section 6.8, Clause 51 of the Codified Law of The North Pacific is hereby amended to read as follows,
51. Following an outbreak, the Speaker must promptly contact any citizen or Regional Assembly members and the Ministry of Interior will contact any citizens who have remainsed outside the region, and inform them that they are at risk of losing their status if they do not return within three days.
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11. No part of this bill shall take effect unless all parts take effect.

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This bill will do the following:

1. Affirm the rights of all citizens the ability to vote and to stand for and to hold office regardless if theyre in the RA or not. Regardless if they are interrested in legislating or not.

2. Those that are currently blocked by the RA remain blocked and cannot vote or hold office until they get the RA to reverse their block.

3. Future Blocks by the RA are only used to keep those being blocked out of the RA and cannot be used to prevent citizens from voting or holding office.

4. The institution of the current RA system remains intact. With little to no changes being nessicary to enact on the current RA keeping its continuity. And those who are not interrested in legislating arent forced to join to be able to exercise the right to vote and those that are legislatively active will be able to keep on business as usual.

5. The Speaker can concentrate in administering over the RA and keeping track of inactive RA members and not having added duties to keep track of citizens as well.

6. Creates the Ministry of Interior to keep track of Citizens and remove them after 30 days with no forum posts, taking the pressure off the RA Speaker and preventing the speaker from having to perform extra duties outside of the RA.

I humbly submit this alternative version for comment from the TNP Public.
 
I have not voted as there seems to be no option for "i like the status quo"

"I dislike both options" does not say exactly the same thing.
 
PWL, when you mentioned this yesterday on IRC, I asked you at least five times to explain to me what is so negative about all citizens being able to automatically take part in the RA, and what are the benefits of keeping citizenship and RA membership separate. You never offered a single argument.

You still don't offer any single argument in the OP of this thread, except to use a feel-good term "integrity". Can you elaborate on why your alternative is better?

For the record, here is what I said in my second post in the main thread regarding this issue:
Concern: Even if we create citizenship, should there not be a separate class of Regional Assembly members that citizens need to apply separately to become?
Response: I have not seen anyone offer any arguments supporting this separation. At the same time, I have arguments against it. Separating RA membership from citizenship makes it harder for citizens to become involved in the legislative process; they have to go through one more hoop to join the RA. Why create such an obstacle? If anything we should be making it as simple as possible for members to get involved in the RA. Moreover, the RA, in addition to legislating, has certain powers that should be available to all citizens to exercise, such as the recall of government officials. Finally, creating a separation between citizens and RA members requires considerable expansion and complication of the Constitution and Legal Code.

Concern: Shouldn't the Speaker be elected only by legislatively-active citizens (or only by RA members, of citizens and RA members are separated)?
Response: I do not believe so. The Speaker is responsible for many areas unrelated to the legislative powers of the RA. The Speaker moderates discussion of recall motions, oversees membership granting and removal, and serves as Election Commissioner. All these are roles that directly affect all citizens, not just RA members. Furthermore, if we applied the same argument to other positions, we would have the Delegate elected only by members in the Executive Staff, and Justices elected only by those who comment in the Court area.
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As Flemingovia says, I like the status quo, with the exception of allowing citizens ability to vote and hold office.

You have to apply to the executive staff, The NPA etc. You cant just automatic be a member of Foreign affairs, the WA ministry, NPA, or Home Affairs by virture of being a citizen...why should RA be any different? I have no issue with citizens being able to vote and hold office. But I do not like how your version automaticly makes one an RA member. Like the Executive staff, NPA, etc. I feel if one wants to be in the RA in addition to being a citizen and voting for and holding office then they should go thru the current application procedure as it currently is.

Separating RA (Exexutive staff/Foreign Affairs/World Assembly Affairs/Communications/Home Affairs/NPA) membership from citizenship makes it harder for citizens to become involved in the legislative(military/executive) process; they have to go through one more hoop to join the RA(Exexutive staff/Foreign Affairs/World Assembly Affairs/Communications/Home Affairs/NPA). Why create such an obstacle? If anything we should be making it as simple as possible for members to get involved in the RA(Exexutive staff/Foreign Affairs/World Assembly Affairs/Communications/Home Affairs/NPA).
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Also, I want to add that I AM NOT suggesting the government confir automatic enrollment into the NPA or executive staff to citizens. Rather what I am suggesting is as far as the RA is concerned;

If one wants to help in a ministry they apply to the executive staff.

If one wants to help the NPAF they apply to join.

If one is interested in legislation and taking part in the legislative processes and procedures one should join the RA and strive to comply with its activity requirements (much like an NPAer complies with NPA regs; executive staffers complies with requirements from the Delegate/Executive Officer in charge of their assigned ministry)

Outside of that, as I said I do agree with you about citizens being able to vote and hold office, but don't agree with the idea of making citizens automatic RA members. If they are interested in legislative matters they will submit the application much like someone interested will request to join the Executive Staff or NPA.

sufficent or not that is my rationale on the matter.
 
flemingovia:
I have not voted as there seems to be no option for "i like the status quo"

"I dislike both options" does not say exactly the same thing.
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I've been thinking about that. The status quo seems to be the simplest arrangement. It also requires people to be active and won't inflate the RA with one-time voters who vanish thereafter.
 
Romanoffia:
flemingovia:
I have not voted as there seems to be no option for "i like the status quo"

"I dislike both options" does not say exactly the same thing.
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I've been thinking about that. The status quo seems to be the simplest arrangement. It also requires people to be active and won't inflate the RA with one-time voters who vanish thereafter.
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Um... have you seen how many people apply to join the WA, vote once if at all, and never come back? Culling the herd is a major part of the Speaker's responsibilities now, and would be just the same if voting rights are opened up to all.
 
Why I dont want to put that pressure on a speaker to keep up with RA and citizen activity. And would create a ministry to indoctrinate record and remove inactive citizens.
 
For those that support the status-quo fair enough, I have made similar arguments -- that RA requirements are not hard to maintain, just vote Abstain on 1 in 4 votes. And if people can't meet that requirement then I am not sure the electorate should vote for them for higher offices mandated by our constiution.

However, I also believe in civil liberties, and feel Citizens who do not participate in the legislative process should still enjoy the political freedoms to cast an election ballot and to be able to throw their hat in the ring and to run for office and let the electorate decide if they are electable or not.

Those that are for the status quo and are going to be against r3ns bill or mine regardless, I am probably not going to change your mind. But I am speaking to r3n and those that support his bill to seek compromises. While I agree that Citizens should vote and have the opportunity to hold office, I just do not agree with RA membership being automatic with citizenship, NPA isnt automatic if one is interrested in R/D they join the NPA. Executive Staff isn't automatic, if one wishes to help in a ministry they request to join. The SC isnt automatic if one is interested in regional security they strive to meet the requirements and petition to join the Security Council. If one is not interested in legislation fine -- they may enjoy the right to vote/hold office without having to join the RA; but if they are interested in legislation then they should choose to join just like every other program/department and meet the activity requirements just like the the SC, NPA, Executive Staff etc.

And similarly those that are against those outside the RA/tnp politics running for office - like when issue arrised when Falap mentioned the whole Justice election/standing for VD right after thing -- let the electorate decide the best candidate and what behaviors are acceptable. Let the electorate decide if a citizen outside the legislator is the better candidate or not.

Really I think this is the best of both worlds and a real compromise. And if discussion is going to further I'd really love it if this could gain traction.

As r3ns proposal is now, even though I think Citizens should vote and hold office, the way it guts the instituion of the RA, and confirs automatic RA unto citizens, while still leaving joining the NPA, Executive staff as a choice and not making the RA a choice, but giving it to legislative interested and non-interested alike, as it currently is written I cannot support it.

(OOC: I know I shouldnt compare TNP to other regions or NS to RL...but I am anyway, there are other regions I have seen where all citizens enjoy a right to vote and stand for office and yet the legislative body is still volunteer and one must request to join or be elected to Office in open elections and it works. In RL citizens can vote but we are not automaticly all congress members. And it works...some of the time...I know most of us come to NS to escape RL and be things on our role play game we can never be in RL..Lord Flemingovia knows I could never be a RL legislator or a Attorney General...I really think this compromise to our RP TNP laws could work.)

Now, I didnt expand in this in my OP. But how I envision the Ministry of Interior working is similar to how the speakers office currently works. The Speaker, VD and Admin works in harmony to accept applications and process them and the Speakers office has proprietary google documents to help them weed out inactivity.

The Admins do a good job keeping up with forum masking and applications. So I can easily see the Ministry of Interior take over the "registered citizens" thread. Record everyone who has posted on there currently sans any CTEd, banned, moved out of TNP nations. And then work in unison with Admin to keep the records current. Like how the speaker and admin do now with RA applicants. I purposely left this vague so the Interior Ministry can come up with their own processes. Maybe they could ask the speakers office how they got a awesome google doc that tracks inactivity and impliment a similar system. Or maybe they want to come up with thier own processes from scratch.

By creating a MoI I feel this would take the burden off the RA Speaker and they would not have to track forum users activity outside of the scope of the RA.
 
PWL, r3n's bill would actually make it easier for the speaker to keep up with additions and removals, since r3n's scripts would handle everything.
 
This bill - do you mean r3ns bill or what I have come up with? Changing RA to Citizen as far as voting goes - and creating a MoI? (I agree the speaker scripts are well equipt to handle this, I simply do not like the idea of a Speaker of the Assembly having to keep track of forum users inside as well as outside the assembly -- the speaker of RA can concentrate on tracking RA members and a MoI -- citizens --- I even suggested the MoI could easily adopt the scripts used by the RA and modify it for citizen tracking and 30 day forum posting as opposed to tracking vote activity.)
 
It is never a good idea to make our systems too beholden to one person's generosity in letting us use their scripts.

Folks go inactive, get pissed off and go off in a huff, etc etc.
 
flem, in this case the scripts would actually be hosted on the google doc that the official RA roster is kept in, which is passed from speaker to speaker. So we needn't worry about them being revoked.
 
R3n should just rename the Regional Assembly the Citizens Assembly that way the speaker can keep track since apparently they already do that and theres no squabble/misunderstanding about terminology....

Oh wait, no, I'd still be against automatic assemblyship no matter if its called the RA or the CA...voting and standing and what not is fine...but if one wants to legislate then one should sign up and join the legislature. Must like one signs up and joins the NPA, SC, Exec. Staff, etc.
 
PaulWallLibertarian42:
Oh wait, no, I'd still be against automatic assemblyship no matter if its called the RA or the CA...voting and standing and what not is fine...but if one wants to legislate then one should sign up and join the legislature. Must like one signs up and joins the NPA, SC, Exec. Staff, etc.
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There's a significant difference between the RA and those other options, though.

NPA has requirements to join, and the minister is free to say "nope". SC has legal requirements to join, and either the SC or the RA can say no. Executive Staff, the delegate or minister could decide they're not taking anybody new or that you'd be a pain to work with, and nope, you're out.

But there are no requirements for RA membership beyond what is required for citizenship, and even more than that, the Speaker has zero discretion in rejecting applications. They can't keep someone out just because they don't like them, don't want to work with them, think they'll write terrible bills, think they're a troll, etc. So long as they pass admin check and VD check - which would be kept in place for citizenship - and they meet the sole criteria of having a nation in the region... they're necessarily accepted.

That's why it doesn't make sense to require people to apply. Unlike areas where acceptance can be withheld, it really is just red tape under your bill.

Edit: To comment on the Speaker vs. Minister addition, I think adding a minister to track citizenship would increase complexity and reduce efficiency. It would require two versions of the script (which could be problematic given that they access NS proper and could, potentially, run afoul of rate limits), and would require the Speaker to regularly update the Minister when people need to be added to the cit rolls or removed from them based on their legislative activity. Far, far better to just keep the whole thing under the eye of a single government official who can make sure it all gets done.
 
It could be argued that the security check of the VD could be used to keep undesirables out. After all if you look at the bill that instiuted VD checks that is exactly what is was designed for.
 
Undesirables who are security threats - not undesirables who are simply disliked, as we saw when the RA overturned the blocks on Narnia, Rach, and madjack.

And like I said, the VD check will remain in place - on citizen applicants.
 
The VD can just say oh "security threat though" - and then of course there is oversight in the RA vote to uphold or reject the block. Also, falap and I did write the bill that made it possible for the RA to later repeal/reverse an upheld block.

As far as minister vs. Speaker. If it would be easier to have one department run one scrupt instead of two running similar ones. We could create a position inside of the speakers office and call it 'citizens secretary' and they were to keep track of the citizen side of things. (Obviously would be a deputy assigned this task and only this task, unlesd the speaker also granted them the tasks of being able to moderate legislative debates, set votes, keep up with the RA rolls too) and the speaker could contentrate on the other duties knowing the citizen rolls was being taken care of. Delegation. Teamwork.

Like Ive said and Flem has basically said if I am to understand him correctly. If one wants to legislate then they should join the legislature.

Where I differ is Flem and to an extent Roman is content with the Status-Quo as is, I concede and can see the benefits and the equality under the law of allowing Citizens the right to vote, I just disagree with r3ns implimentations.
 
I believe that we should stick with the status quo as well. While it does seem like a waste of time to have the Speaker's Office take care of both citizenship and Regional Assembly rolls, it is crucial to keep everything in one place. If you want to vote and you're a citizen, just become a Regional Assembly member.
 
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