In regards to The North Pacific's Investigation,

unibot

unibot

TNPer
In regards to The North Pacific's Investigation,

During this week, UDL Command received a PDF file by Lieutenant Ravania showing a private NPA thread – in that thread was Evil Wolf’s order to pile in Warhammer 40000 and Former Delegate Mcmasterdonia’s criticism of the decision.

It should be clear that we did not order this action; Lieutenant Ravania did so under his free-will. An NPA Investigation, using information known by Lieutenant Eluvatar found that Lieutenant Ravania was responsible for the leak.

In a discussion between the Chiefs of Staff, it was decided that Lieutenant Ravania and those other officers, who failed to report this leak should be reprimanded. The UDL does not condone breaking any regional or organizational trust given to it's members. Overall, the conversation was private and was meant to be private – as a sign of respect to the NPA, Lieutenant Tim, Lieutenant Mahaj, Chief Lieutenant Solm and myself, Chief Unibot, also should have reported the leak to the NPA.

Therefore, Lieutenant Ravania is reprimanded with a temporary two week demotion to the level of Senior Merryman, while Lieutenant Tim, Lieutenant Mahaj, Chief Lieutenant Solm and Chief Unibot will be reprimanded with a one week demotion to the level of Senior Merryman, Senior Merryman, Senior Merryman and Merryman respectively. Hodori will serve as Chief of Orientation during this duration, while Chief Lieutenant Earth will serve as Chief of the Band and Lieutenant Sovreignry will serve as Chief Lieutenant.

Normally, leaking information from UDL’s Command Channel would be responded with a dishonorable discharge for Lieutenant Eluvatar, but in light of the ethical dilemma and conflict of interests posed and also, the pressing emotional circumstances he has faced, he has been acquitted of any hypothetical violations of our privacy policies.

We sincerely apologize to The North Pacific Army for this breach of their security. Thank you for reading.

Yours,
Merryman Unibot.
 
The Attorney General will be pursuing criminal charges against NPA Private Ravania. I don't care if the UDL has issued its own two week temporary punishment against him, what he did violated TNP laws.

I would also like full access to where this information was posted and what, precisely this information,was, to be granted to an NPIA investigator of my choosing to be named later. This is the North Pacific Army's own information, stolen from our private forums, it's recovery is paramount and an investigation to determine how it was used is imperative.

That is the only action I will be taking as Acting Delegate at this time until the NPA has a better picture of what exactly happened.
 
lol. Slaps on the wrist all around, and many here will want TNP to blithely roll over since the ends justify the means as long as they advance the defender cause. :eyeroll:
 
I would also like full access to where this information was posted
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No way, Evil Wolf. Nice try though. I'd give Jakker full access to our Command Centre before I gave you full access.
 
unibot:
I would also like full access to where this information was posted
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No way, Evil Wolf. Nice try though. I'd give Jakker full access to our Command Centre before I gave you full access.
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Excuse me? Your member stole NPA information from our forums. You will be providing NPIA access. This is not a topic up for discussion.
 
Wolf: You're not going to get access. You heard Uni.

I like the strong wording there though.
 
Clearly neither of you read my words at all.

I would also like full access to where this information was posted and what, precisely this information,was, to be granted to an NPIA investigator of my choosing to be named later.
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Blue Wolf II:
Clearly neither of you read my words at all.

I would also like full access to where this information was posted and what, precisely this information,was, to be granted to an NPIA investigator of my choosing to be named later.
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I hate to break it to you, but it actually doesn't matter how you word it.
 
Blue Wolf II:
unibot:
I would also like full access to where this information was posted
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No way, Evil Wolf. Nice try though. I'd give Jakker full access to our Command Centre before I gave you full access.
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Excuse me? Your member stole NPA information from our forums. You will be providing NPIA access. This is not a topic up for discussion.
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How is full access [which is being taken as to mean having someone sit in the channel from now forth] to a channel where a total of about 15-25 lines are relative to your inquiries (which I'm pretty sure you're going to get logs of) necessary for your inquiry, if I may ask?

Edit: Which you -will- be gettings logs of. I, personally, am hoping for full cooperation between TNP and UDL reasonably to settle this matter and hope that the Delegate will join me in this matter.
 
Listen, you people come here, supposedly, with hat in hand and then refuse to cooperate when I start asking questions. I have absolutely no idea about the nature of this information, how it was used, or even where precisely it was posted. This "NPA Investigation" Unibot is claiming? If it occurred, I was not informed of it.

The North Pacific Intelligence Agency will be conducting its own investigation, and I will be naming who is to head that investigation at a later date. If you're really so apologetic, cooperate with the investigation, if not, then keep stalling and making excuses.
 
For the record, those TNP/UDL dual citizens refusing NPIA access to the information's original location, untampered, are obstructing justice, which I believe is against our legal code, or at least should be.
 
King Durk the Awesome:
For the record, those TNP/UDL dual citizens refusing NPIA access to the information's original location, untampered, are obstructing justice, which I believe is against our legal code, or at least should be.
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Pretty sure that doesn't extend to "having access to other groups' properties", sorry.
 
Mahaj:
King Durk the Awesome:
For the record, those TNP/UDL dual citizens refusing NPIA access to the information's original location, untampered, are obstructing justice, which I believe is against our legal code, or at least should be.
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Pretty sure that doesn't extend to "having access to other groups' properties", sorry.
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Well it's this simple really. You either hand over access, or your entire organization will be discredited throughout the feeders on a massive scale.
 
I'm not sure what's going on here. It isn't possible to grant access to the location of posting because there is no such as such. The leak was over instant messaging.
 
Blue Wolf, as a note, I am currently the acting head of the UDL and besides for Sov I am currently the only Officer who has posted in this thread. I apologize profusely if other posts in this thread have offended you with regards to our original post and I hope to be able to continue discussions of this investigation and to provide you with adequate help in the matter calmly and diplomatically. The logs regarding this inquiry are being sent to the Interim Delegate as requested.

Personally I have a midterm in the morning and have to get up in under five hours and would like to head to sleep, if you don't mind. My apologies for that prior commitment. :P
 
King Durk the Awesome:
Mahaj:
King Durk the Awesome:
For the record, those TNP/UDL dual citizens refusing NPIA access to the information's original location, untampered, are obstructing justice, which I believe is against our legal code, or at least should be.
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Pretty sure that doesn't extend to "having access to other groups' properties", sorry.
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Well it's this simple really. You either hand over access, or your entire organization will be discredited throughout the feeders on a massive scale.
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You really have no authority to make such a threat, at least on behalf of TNP. As a fellow citizen, please refrain from insinuating such things.
 
Well this is a little bit of loldrama. I'm not surprised by the Source of the leak. I appreciate the action taken, It's good to see something was done. Everyone take a step back from this and worry about it later. This is the strongest discipline I think we could reasonably have expected. Reasonably being the key word. We could demand that all members involved be booted from the UDL, but that's unlikely.

Thank you for the input and cooperation Earth.
 
I'm confident that the UDL leadership realizes the gravity of this situation, and the consequences that anything less than full cooperation with the NPIA investigation would have on TNP-UDL relations. If there is anything the Speaker's office can do to help this investigation to a swift and conclusive end, I am eager to assist.
 
[As a note, I'm going to bed now so if you don't get a response until tomorrow from me it'd be sleep and midterm+school. A million people know how to contact me if you really need to and I'm always happy to assist.]
 
Former English Colony:
King Durk the Awesome:
Mahaj:
King Durk the Awesome:
For the record, those TNP/UDL dual citizens refusing NPIA access to the information's original location, untampered, are obstructing justice, which I believe is against our legal code, or at least should be.
Click to expand...
Pretty sure that doesn't extend to "having access to other groups' properties", sorry.
Click to expand...
Well it's this simple really. You either hand over access, or your entire organization will be discredited throughout the feeders on a massive scale.
Click to expand...
You really have no authority to make such a threat, at least on behalf of TNP. As a fellow citizen, please refrain from insinuating such things.
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it was a commentary more than a threat.
 
perhaps I can suggest a way ahead?

The UDL have been quite candid about this leak, which I welcome. I can also see other biases at play - raider-leaning members wishing to make the most capital out of this; defender-leaning members wishing to downplay it.

It is obvious that TNP will wish to conduct their own investigation. It is also obvious that the UDL will not allow unfettered access to their forum to just anyone, and particularly not a raider like Blue Wolf. That seems quite reasonable.

I suggest that I be allowed - by both sides - to do the investigating.

I hope my loyalty to TNP is beyond question. My investigation would be thorough and unbiased. I was involved in the outset in UDL, but I have not been involved for some time, and I am listed as "inactive" or something over there. I would hope that the UDL would trust that I would not screw them over.

Second, I do not lie. I might play the game for the lutz, sometimes, but I do not think I have ever lied to anyone in this game. So if I say that I will not abuse the access, or reveal to anyone anything beyond the narrow scope of this investigation, or cover up anything to help the UDL, or betray any confidence, then I hope both sides in this can be assured that this is exactly how I would conduct myself.

I am being a bit rambly, as it is 6am, but I hope you get the point.

I volunteer to conduct the investigation from the TNP side, with access to the UDL forum, which I hope the UDL grant in the interest of retaining cordial relationships.
 
I don't really get what you'll find in an IRC channel though... what's been said has been said. I can't speak for the administration of the UDL (since I'm a Merryman), but I think we mostly see an approach to our IRC Command Centre as an unnecessary power-grab (there's no purpose served in seeing an IRC channel when what's been said has been said) especially when it came from Blue Wolf.

I think the administration would probably be interested in giving you temporary access to the restricted sections of our forum, though.
 
unibot:
In regards to The North Pacific's Investigation,

During this week, UDL Command received a PDF file by Lieutenant Ravania showing a private NPA thread – in that thread was Evil Wolf’s order to pile in Warhammer 40000 and Former Delegate Mcmasterdonia’s criticism of the decision.

It should be clear that we did not order this action; Lieutenant Ravania did so under his free-will. An NPA Investigation, using information known by Lieutenant Eluvatar found that Lieutenant Ravania was responsible for the leak.

In a discussion between the Chiefs of Staff, it was decided that Lieutenant Ravania and those other officers, who failed to report this leak should be reprimanded. The UDL does not condone breaking any regional or organizational trust given to it's members. Overall, the conversation was private and was meant to be private – as a sign of respect to the NPA, Lieutenant Tim, Lieutenant Mahaj, Chief Lieutenant Solm and myself, Chief Unibot, also should have reported the leak to the NPA.

Therefore, Lieutenant Ravania is reprimanded with a temporary two week demotion to the level of Senior Merryman, while Lieutenant Tim, Lieutenant Mahaj, Chief Lieutenant Solm and Chief Unibot will be reprimanded with a one week demotion to the level of Senior Merryman, Senior Merryman, Senior Merryman and Merryman respectively. Hodori will serve as Chief of Orientation during this duration, while Chief Lieutenant Earth will serve as Chief of the Band and Lieutenant Sovreignry will serve as Chief Lieutenant.

Normally, leaking information from UDL’s Command Channel would be responded with a dishonorable discharge for Lieutenant Eluvatar, but in light of the ethical dilemma and conflict of interests posed and also, the pressing emotional circumstances he has faced, he has been acquitted of any hypothetical violations of our privacy policies.

We sincerely apologize to The North Pacific Army for this breach of their security. Thank you for reading.

Yours,
Merryman Unibot.
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What evidence is this, and where is this proof etc. ?
 
So is this only being done because we know about it? Would this be done if Eluvatar hadn't spilled the beans?

My concern is that if Eluvatar had not reported this, Ravania would've been patted on the back. I am not convinced that this was totally in good faith.

EDIT: In addition, I find it very disappointing that members that are being held responsible are only getting a temporary slap in the wrist. A slap in the wrist that will neither affect their long term membership or responsibilities within the UDL, and does not truely represent any serious consequence.
 
Speaking as a former UDL Officer who still maintains some nominal if peripheral attachment to the organisation, I very much agree with Scandigrad. A two week demotion - not even a suspension from duties - for Ravania, who took it upon himself to take up espionage in his own free time, and against a not-quire-but-kinda-an-ally, stinks. It is not a serious punishment.

Even more so Unibot's self demotion; while he was far less guilty (I've received walk in intelligence myself and never turned it away) his punishment has been even more nominal, as can be seen from him talking for the UDL right up there; 'I think the administration would probably be interested in giving you temporary access to the restricted sections of our forum, though.'
 
Belschaft:
Speaking as a former UDL Officer who still maintains some nominal if peripheral attachment to the organisation, I very much agree with Scandigrad. A two week demotion - not even a suspension from duties - for Ravania, who took it upon himself to take up espionage in his own free time, and against a not-quire-but-kinda-an-ally, stinks. It is not a serious punishment.

Even more so Unibot's self demotion; while he was far less guilty (I've received walk in intelligence myself and never turned it away) his punishment has been even more nominal, as can be seen from him talking for the UDL right up there; 'I think the administration would probably be interested in giving you temporary access to the restricted sections of our forum, though.'
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:agree:
 
An extension, and largely speculation at that;

I suspect that the very nominal 'punishments' for Unibot and the other officers involved are simply cover to try and justify not seriously punishing Ravania. I don't think anyone in TNP expected or required punishment for those who received the intelligence, but rather expected some meaningful reprimand against the guilty party.
 
Belschaft:
Speaking as a former UDL Officer who still maintains some nominal if peripheral attachment to the organisation, I very much agree with Scandigrad. A two week demotion - not even a suspension from duties - for Ravania, who took it upon himself to take up espionage in his own free time, and against a not-quire-but-kinda-an-ally, stinks. It is not a serious punishment.

Even more so Unibot's self demotion; while he was far less guilty (I've received walk in intelligence myself and never turned it away) his punishment has been even more nominal, as can be seen from him talking for the UDL right up there; 'I think the administration would probably be interested in giving you temporary access to the restricted sections of our forum, though.'
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Belschaft:
An extension, and largely speculation at that;

I suspect that the very nominal 'punishments' for Unibot and the other officers involved are simply cover to try and justify not seriously punishing Ravania. I don't think anyone in TNP expected or required punishment for those who received the intelligence, but rather expected some meaningful reprimand against the guilty party.
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:agree:
 
A suspension of duties would be a vacation for Ravania. You seem to forget he's one of the hardest working, if not the hardest working defender in defenderdom.

If we suspended him, we might as well give him a pair of sunglasses and a bottle of sun-tan lotion. He doesn't owe anything to us and he doesn't owe anything to you. It's a privilege to work with him and I know that native communities are safer under his dedicated watch.

- Uni
 
As a TNP Citizen Ravania owed a great deal to TNP. Loyalty, to start with. As an organisation with diplomatic relations with TNP, UDL owed TNP a number of things as well.

If you seriously believe that your response was in any way sufficient, you are deluded. It was not.

*puts TSP hat on*

Regarding TSP's relations with UDL, I have the word of the Acting Capitalis that no such event like this has ever occurred in relation to us. As I trust Earth I am willing to accept that, but if I ever find evidence to the contrary there will be consequences.

Despite everything that has previously occurred between UDL and TSP, I had always worked from the basis that UDL was an honest partner, if sometimes a difficult one. That is over; UDL is going to have to work very hard before I'm willing to trust it again after this.
 
Bokeryville:
A lot of you guys are being too hard on the UDL, IMO. They do a lot of good, defending regions from griefers and invaders.
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Regardless of what your opinion may be regarding those facts, noone is exempt from their legal duties and obligations, just as noone may be unlawfully deprived of the rights that those same laws confer.
 
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