Security Council Reform Bill

[Eluvatar]

A Proposal to Amend a Law
The below amendment to the North Pacific Legal Code will be applied.

Chapter 5: Security Council Law

1. Any laws regulating the activities of the Security Council must be listed in this chapter.
2. In this chapter, "Council" means the Security Council.

Section 5.1: Requirements
3. The influence requirement will consist of a Members of the Council will maintain an TNP influence level score (Soft Power Disbursement Rating) greater than or equal to or greater than Vassal 300, though when a nation's influence score within TNP is unknown as the displayed score may include significant influence within other regions, a TNP influence rank greater than or equal to Vassal may be substituted.
4. Members of the Council will maintain an endorsement level within the range described in this Section.
4. In this Chapter, the serving Delegate means the legal Delegate or, in the absence of a legal Delegate, the acting Delegate.
5. The minimum endorsement count level is defined as being 50 100 endorsements, or the serving Delegate's endorsement count, whichever is least.
6. The maximum endorsement count level is defined as 20 40 fewer endorsements than the serving Delegate's endorsement count, or eightycount, whichever is greatest.
7. Where the computation results in fractions, the count shall be rounded down.
8. The required range is to be applied in a reasonable manner, taking into account such factors as transitions between elected Delegates, the recall of a Delegate, or periods of Delegate inactivity.
9. The legitimate serving Delegate is exempt from endorsement requirements.

Section 5.2: Admission
8. Any Regional Assembly member satisfying the influence requirement and endorsement count requirement may apply to join the Security Council.
9. An application which does not meet the appropriate requirements or ceases to meet them must be rejected.


Section 5.23: Enforcement
10. If Whenever any Council member does not have the required satisfy either the influence level, or exceeds or does not meet the required the endorsement level requirement, the Vice Delegate will must warn them. If , and if the Council member does not come into compliance within at least fifteen eight days of the warning, the Vice Delegate will must suspend them.
11. The Vice Delegate shall must remove members of the Council whose member nation no longer exists or no longer resides in voluntarily departs The North Pacific or resigns from the World Assembly outside the needs of a NPA sanctioned mission.
12. The Vice Delegate will must report any suspension or removal of a member of the Council to the Regional Assembly.
13. If a suspended member of the Council comes back into compliance with the endorsement and influence requirements, the Vice Delegate will reinstate them.
14. A majority of the Council may vote to determine that the continued membership in the Council of a member poses a security risk to The North Pacific and request approval from the Regional Assembly to remove the member from the Council.
15. The Speaker of the Regional Assembly will submit the request to an immediate vote of the Regional Assembly; approval will require a two-thirds majority.
16. The Council may task a member with taking actions required under this chapter in the absence of the Vice Delegate.
17. During any period when serving as acting Delegate, the Vice Delegate will be considered absent from the office of Vice Delegate.
18. If the Vice Delegate nation ceases to exist or voluntarily departs The North Pacific or resigns from the World Assembly, or fails to maintain an endorsement level within the range required of Council members for over , the Vice Delegate will be removed from office.

Spoiler: Text of chapter after amendment

Chapter 5: Security Council Law

1. Any laws regulating the activities of the Security Council must be listed in this chapter.
2. In this chapter, "Council" means the Security Council.

Section 5.1: Requirements
3. The influence requirement will consist of aTNP influence score (Soft Power Disbursement Rating) greater than orequal to 300, though when a nation's influence score within TNP is unknown as the displayed score may include significant influence within other regions, a TNP influence rank greater than or equal to Vassal may be substituted
4. In this Chapter, the serving Delegate means the legal Delegate or, in the absence of a legal Delegate, the acting Delegate.
5. The minimum endorsement count is defined as 100 endorsements, or the serving Delegate's endorsement count, whichever is least.
6. The maximum endorsement count is defined as 40 fewer endorsements than the serving Delegate's endorsement count, or eightycount, whichever is greatest.
7. Where the computation results in fractions, the count shall be rounded down.
8. The serving Delegate is exempt from endorsement requirements.

Section 5.2: Admission
8. Any Regional Assembly member satisfying the influence requirement and endorsement count requirement may apply to join the Security Council.
9. An application which does not meet the appropriate requirements or ceases to meet them must be rejected.


Section 5.3: Enforcement
10. Whenever any Council member does not satisfy either the influence or the endorsement requirement, the Vice Delegate must warn them, and if the Council member does not come into compliance within eight days of the warning, the Vice Delegate must suspend them.
11. The Vice Delegate must remove members of the Council whose member nation no longer exists or no longer resides in The North Pacific or resigns from the World Assembly outside the needs of a NPA sanctioned mission.
12. The Vice Delegate must report any suspension or removal of a member of the Council to the Regional Assembly.
13. If a suspended member of the Council comes back into compliance with the endorsement and influence requirements, the Vice Delegate will reinstate them.
14. A majority of the Council may vote to determine that the continued membership in the Council of a member poses a security risk to The North Pacific and request approval from the Regional Assembly to remove the member from the Council.
15. The Speaker of the Regional Assembly will submit the request to an immediate vote of the Regional Assembly; approval will require a two-thirds majority.
16. The Council may task a member with taking actions required under this chapter in the absence of the Vice Delegate.
17. During any period when serving as acting Delegate, the Vice Delegate will be considered absent from the office of Vice Delegate.
18. If the Vice Delegate nation ceases to exist or voluntarily departs The North Pacific or resigns from the World Assembly, or fails to maintain an endorsement level within the range required of Council members for over , the Vice Delegate will be removed from office.

 

[Kiwi]

I have no problem with these changes.

17 emphasizes the importance of the VD maintaining WA status. I thought it would be obvious but alas, apparently not.

Looks good.

 

[Cormac]

These are common sense and substantive changes to a section of the Legal Code that will, I think, need this kind of revision from time to time as TNP adapts to new circumstances. I support.

 

[Chasmanthe]

I support this proposal. Well done.

 

[Kingborough]

17 needs clarification though - is he automatically thrown out of office, or is a recall made automatically - if so what happens if it fails, as they often do in TNP?

 

[Great Bights Mum]

Section 5.1:8 notwithstanding, the time period for compliance should be 15 days. I don't have confidence that what I consider reasonable is the same as what some random VD thinks is reasonable.

How does one find a nation's Soft Power Disbursement rating, and why is it an improvement over using the handy influence level found on the nation's page?

 

[Pasargad]

3. Members of the Council will maintain an TNP influence level (Soft Power Disbursement Rating) equal to or greater than Vassal 200, though when a nation's influence total may include influence within other regions, an influence rank equal to or greater than Vassal may be demanded.

can Elu explain what will the actual influence level requirement be for joining SC

 

[Lennart]

I like the changes.

 

[Abbey]

Section 5.1:8 notwithstanding, the time period for compliance should be 15 days. I don't have confidence that what I consider reasonable is the same as what some random VD thinks is reasonable.

How does one find a nation's Soft Power Disbursement rating, and why is it an improvement over using the handy influence level found on the nation's page?

It can be found under "Analysis" (under the main stats bar) -> dropdown for influence. It's an actual quantification of influence, rather than the relative measure that is the influence label. (or http://www.nationstates.net/page=compare/nations=andacantra?censusid=65 here, replacing andacantra with any other nation name). Still on the nations page, just a couple of clicks in.

It's more reliable as it's not relative - that will be the same no matter the number of nations or whatever else in the region.

EDIT: However - hindsight! Elu - that measure is -worldwide- influence, and not solely TNP. If I moved Andacantra to TNP right now, I'd be above that measure, even though I'd have 0 influence in TNP. As much as I'd prefer the quantified version...

 

[Grosseschnauzer]

I have two reservations:
I agree with GBM that the 15 day compliance period should remain; I can see circumstances with the higher endorsement level requirements that a good faith effort might nonetheless be insufficient to regain compliance within 8 days,
Second, I'm not sure that the "may" in the proposed addition to clause 3 (concerning the alternative use of the traditional influence level of vassal or higher) shouldn't be "will." That may creates a slippery slope I'm not sure we want to be in the middle of.
I do think we may need a change to clarify that normally, both the S.C. and the R.A. have to approve the admission of a new member to the S.C. Some people questioned that even though the current language tried to be clear that the S.C. had to approve an application first, and the R.A. then voted to admit the approved applicant to the S.C.

 

[Eluvatar]

Section 5.1:8 notwithstanding, the time period for compliance should be 15 days. I don't have confidence that what I consider reasonable is the same as what some random VD thinks is reasonable.

How does one find a nation's Soft Power Disbursement rating, and why is it an improvement over using the handy influence level found on the nation's page?

It can be found under "Analysis" (under the main stats bar) -> dropdown for influence. It's an actual quantification of influence, rather than the relative measure that is the influence label. (or http://www.nationstates.net/page=compare/nations=andacantra?censusid=65 here, replacing andacantra with any other nation name). Still on the nations page, just a couple of clicks in.

It's more reliable as it's not relative - that will be the same no matter the number of nations or whatever else in the region.

EDIT: However - hindsight! Elu - that measure is -worldwide- influence, and not solely TNP. If I moved Andacantra to TNP right now, I'd be above that measure, even though I'd have 0 influence in TNP. As much as I'd prefer the quantified version...

3. Members of the Council will maintain an TNP influence level (Soft Power Disbursement Rating) equal to or greater than Vassal 200, though when a nation's influence total may include influence within other regions, an influence rank equal to or greater than Vassal may be demanded.

 

[Lennart]

Section 5.1:8 notwithstanding, the time period for compliance should be 15 days. I don't have confidence that what I consider reasonable is the same as what some random VD thinks is reasonable.

How does one find a nation's Soft Power Disbursement rating, and why is it an improvement over using the handy influence level found on the nation's page?

It can be found under "Analysis" (under the main stats bar) -> dropdown for influence. It's an actual quantification of influence, rather than the relative measure that is the influence label. (or http://www.nationstates.net/page=compare/nations=andacantra?censusid=65 here, replacing andacantra with any other nation name). Still on the nations page, just a couple of clicks in.

It's more reliable as it's not relative - that will be the same no matter the number of nations or whatever else in the region.

EDIT: However - hindsight! Elu - that measure is -worldwide- influence, and not solely TNP. If I moved Andacantra to TNP right now, I'd be above that measure, even though I'd have 0 influence in TNP. As much as I'd prefer the quantified version...

Are you sure that measure is -worldwide-?

I think ¡t is a -regional- thing. And that you "lose" (I explain below) your influence completely by switching regions. So the influences aren't adding up.

This is true at least for nations with little influence. I think the nation won't lose so much influence if it goes back to the original region fast or before the update takes place, but it's not definitely adding up.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

This can be found in the Game FAQ:

Spoiler: >What is regional influence?

It's a measure of how well-respected a nation is in its region. Nations earn influence in a region the longer they remain there and the more endorsements they have. When a nation leaves, its influence in that region begins to decline.

The more influence a nation has, the more influence the Delegate requires to eject it from the region.

 

[Abbey]

Apologies Elu, my bad.

And no, you don't lose all your influence instantly - it gradually drops off. You don't have any influence in your new region, but if you move back to your old one you still have a proportion of what you left with (up until a point). The influence on the nation I linked, for instance, was not gained in the region it is in currently.

 

[Lennart]

Apologies Elu, my bad.

And no, you don't lose all your influence instantly - it gradually drops off. You don't have any influence in your new region, but if you move back to your old one you still have a proportion of what you left with (up until a point). The influence on the nation I linked, for instance, was not gained in the region it is in currently.

I see...

thanks

 

[Chasmanthe]

So surely if you are vassal in region A, and then move to region B, your soft power disbursement rating will go right down having moved. It won't add up A+B, will it?

 

[Belschaft]

So surely if you are vassal in region A, and then move to region B, your soft power disbursement rating will go right down having moved. It won't add up A+B, will it?

Yes, but it will take some time;

For example, if I move my TSP nation into TNP I would qualify for SC membership under these new influence rules until such time as it drops.

 

[Alvino Castillon]

I have two reservations:

16. The Council may task a member with taking actions required under this chapter in the absence of the Vice Delegate.

Could you please define member in this case? By member, does it mean of the Security Council, the Regional Assembly, or the Region itself? I apologize for the nitpicking, but I want to ensure this issue does not come up later on down the road.

I feel that the fifteen day grace period should remain in the case of a member being away on extended leave. As of this moment I have not seen anything addressing this concern, but I could be incorrect in my assumption.

Other than that, I think the other changes are definitely great changes Elu, and I support them fully.

 

[Romanoffia]

"member" in this instance would imply a member of the SC from a grammatical/syntactical point of view. ;D

I like the legislation, but I think, as GBM says, a 15 day grace period may be more realistic and practical.

 

[Eluvatar]

The influence Rank (e.g. Minnow, Vassal, Truckler, Handshaker, Duckspeaker, Envoy, Diplomat, Ambassador...) only considers influence within the region the nation is located in.

The influence Total ("Soft Power Disbursement Level") is a sum of all influence a nation has across all regions it has ever been in.

For nations which have not been outside TNP with any significant number of endorsements, it's pretty clear that their Total reflects TNP influence. Currently, setting the bar at Vassal sets it very, very high. Setting it lower would allow considerable expansion of the Security Council. Coupled with the explicit permission for SC members to occasionally deploy, this would make it more dynamic and, in my opinion, more effective.

If we follow this path however, I will note that I do not personally advise the region to set the order of succession to rely on higher-influence Minnows. Such nations would be very costly for a rogue delegate to eject, but definitely within reach.

A final question: would it be wise to include a requirement that some number of high influence SC members remain with WA status in TNP at any given time, to make sure that the deployment option is not overused? Perhaps three or four?

---

So surely if you are vassal in region A, and then move to region B, your soft power disbursement rating will go right down having moved. It won't add up A+B, will it?

Yes, but it will take some time;

For example, if I move my TSP nation into TNP I would qualify for SC membership under these new influence rules until such time as it drops.

You would not qualify under these rules because of the text I underlined for Abbey: as it would be apparent that part of your Soft Power Disbursement Rating was TSP influence and not TNP influence, you would be expected to reach the influence rank of Vassal in TNP nevertheless.

I have two reservations:

16. The Council may task a member with taking actions required under this chapter in the absence of the Vice Delegate.

Could you please define member in this case? By member, does it mean of the Security Council, the Regional Assembly, or the Region itself? I apologize for the nitpicking, but I want to ensure this issue does not come up later on down the road.

I feel that the fifteen day grace period should remain in the case of a member being away on extended leave. As of this moment I have not seen anything addressing this concern, but I could be incorrect in my assumption.

Other than that, I think the other changes are definitely great changes Elu, and I support them fully.

The clause in question can only refer to a member of the Council.

Seeing as there's significant opposition to shortening the grace period, I will drop that from this bill.

 

[Alvino Castillon]

Since you answered my questions and I find no other issues that make me uneasy, I am in full support of this bill.

 

[Kingborough]

17 needs clarification though - is he automatically thrown out of office, or is a recall made automatically - if so what happens if it fails, as they often do in TNP?

*poke* Not to be annoying, but can this question be answered?

 

[mcmasterdonia]

I'm also unsure about dropping the influence requirements.

Would it not be better to have these nations grouped into an auxiliary type of deal, which the North Pacific Army is already working on. It ensures that the Security Council remains with the highest influence nations.

I'm curious to know what the advantage is of lowering the Influence points from about 425 to 200. Obviously more are involved, but is it not possible to involve them in other ways?

 

[Eluvatar]

17 needs clarification though - is he automatically thrown out of office, or is a recall made automatically - if so what happens if it fails, as they often do in TNP?

*poke* Not to be annoying, but can this question be answered?

The law cannot automatically recall. The language is copied from clause 4.2:

2. All government officials will be required to take the Oath of Office within one week of attaining office or be subject to removal from office following an automatic recall vote.

If the result of the vote were automatic, no vote would be specified. The RA is tasked with identifying that the official has indeed contravened that stipulation of our laws.

I'm also unsure about dropping the influence requirements.

Would it not be better to have these nations grouped into an auxiliary type of deal, which the North Pacific Army is already working on. It ensures that the Security Council remains with the highest influence nations.

I'm curious to know what the advantage is of lowering the Influence points from about 425 to 200. Obviously more are involved, but is it not possible to involve them in other ways?

This NPA Auxiliary hasn't happened so far. However, with these reforms, SC membership would be less of an obstacle to NPA activity, so I do think it helps.

 

[Tyler Kazakov]

I don't support this, its putting room in between the the Delegate, he could throw a coup and it would take at least 2 days to get the endos' needed to get up to him, this isn't worth it.

 

[mcmasterdonia]

This NPA Auxiliary hasn't happened so far. However, with these reforms, SC membership would be less of an obstacle to NPA activity, so I do think it helps.

One of the reasons was that it took a long time for the requested subforum to be made, as the Admin that could do it had gone missing. Also I'm not aware of what the password is for it yet. How is SC membership and obstacle for NPA activity? Do you mean that someone of extremely high influence, like GBM or yourself, would be more likely to leave the WA to deploy on NPA business?

 

[Tyler Kazakov]

This NPA Auxiliary hasn't happened so far. However, with these reforms, SC membership would be less of an obstacle to NPA activity, so I do think it helps.

One of the reasons was that it took a long time for the requested subforum to be made, as the Admin that could do it had gone missing. Also I'm not aware of what the password is for it yet. How is SC membership and obstacle for NPA activity? Do you mean that someone of extremely high influence, like GBM or yourself, would be more likely to leave the WA to deploy on NPA business?

I myself doubt that would ever happen.

 

[Great Bights Mum]

As a practical matter, you can't be guarding the fort if you are away from the fort. Yes, there are support tasks but, much like the vaunted line of succession, it all goes out the window when there's real trouble. When push comes to shove, whoever has the most endorsements is the point. If an SC member happens to be out of town, then it isn't going to be him.

SC members sacrifice their mobility in order to accumulate influence here. The idea is to make TNP stronger, isn't it?

 

[Eluvatar]

When we have 9 SC members, I think it is acceptable to allow some of them to deploy in NPA missions of great importance, so long as they return WA status and gather over a hundred endorsements in less than 8 days.

Keep in mind that we're obviously talking deployments to take or free a region, not longer term deployments to occupy or reinforce.

 

[Pasargad]

200 is too low it will make SC a weak body and if you want to participate in NPA It's your choice but you it will not serve the purpose of being SC member

 

[Great Bights Mum]

None of that is obvious. It doesn't say that anywhere. But you know, fine. If you boys want to run off and play somewhere else, FEC and I will just stay here and keep house.

 

[Pasargad]

those who want to play defender invader games are welcome to join NPA but I think only nations that have high influence in TNP are to be present in SC .
@elu if you are tired of being in SC you can always move your WA nation and resign from SC

 

[Eluvatar]

If one intends their WA to be in TNP 99% of the time, and in fact keeps their WA in TNP 99% of the time, are they failing to do the duties of the SC?

 

[Eluvatar]

None of that is obvious. It doesn't say that anywhere. But you know, fine. If you boys want to run off and play somewhere else, FEC and I will just stay here and keep house.

It's obvious because the SC members, in my draft, are required to get back into compliance with the endorsement level requirement within 8 days. With the suggested reversion, that's 15. It still obviously precludes a long term deployment.

 

[Eluvatar]

In terms of what 200 would mean: there are 70 TNP nations with 200 or more Influence:

Nation[c]Influence[c] Great Bights Mum [c]861[c] Former English Colony [c]860[c] Groovistan [c]814[c] Kitabo [c]753[c] Yaorozu [c]703[c] Zemnaya Svoboda [c]684[c] Pasargad [c]656[c] Grosseschnauzer [c]646[c] Laibach [c]629[c] Herzliyya [c]613[c] Novare Res [c]608[c] Moany Old Gits [c]592[c] Whereisthatistan [c]588[c] ILVSIVM II [c]585[c] Impenyer [c]562[c] Span [c]552[c] Ermarian [c]544[c] Fengate [c]531[c] Velon [c]510[c] Blackshear41 [c]502[c] Elevation [c]493[c] Andromeda Islands [c]493[c] Denarian Knight [c]470[c] Enif [c]469[c] Liononim [c]466[c] Blue Wolf II [c]444[c] Felenia [c]432[c] Wisconsota [c]430[c] MY MONARCHY [c]423[c] Oneofakynd [c]419[c] Medieval Things [c]418[c] Delcovia [c]407[c] Endless Skies [c]405[c] Anarcosyndiclic Peons [c]403[c] New Allied Australia [c]396[c] Selfgradatude [c]365[c] Magehunter [c]356[c] FALCONKATS [c]353[c] New Greasbyland [c]352[c] Espana Japones [c]352[c] Governmentum [c]344[c] Blacknoirschwarz [c]341[c] Zzzaaa [c]327[c] Leeste [c]327[c] Andrapos [c]311[c] Markdegrey [c]300[c] Spadestan [c]294[c] Hekik [c]294[c] Frenulumnia [c]285[c] Agramer [c]282[c] Isimud [c]276[c] Eumbner [c]268[c] Atrigea [c]267[c] McMasterdonia [c]257[c] Ischaemia [c]252[c] Khodoristan [c]251[c] Buschgardensburg [c]246[c] Tirantus [c]243[c] Mancunia Revolution [c]243[c] Mk Steele [c]236[c] New-Magrathea [c]228[c] Soulful Gooks [c]225[c] AARGHHHHH [c]221[c] The Union of Liberty [c]210[c] Corrigador [c]209[c] BrightFutures [c]207[c] Tripolipoli [c]204[c] Pelkonen [c]204[c] The Marians [c]203[c] Cerasia [c]200

 

[Great Bights Mum]

< likes that list

 

[Pasargad]

may be we should also allow delegate to skip regions !!!
once a month he should relocate to all feeders!!!
and then come back and get delegacy back in 5 days or face recall!!

 

[Funkadelia]

For once I have to say... I agree with Pasargad. There's no point in being part of the Security Council, whose main job it is to protect the delegacy from rogues, if you're going to be moving your WA nation at any time.

 

[Grosseschnauzer]

The whole idea behind the Security Council was to serve as a bulwark to protect the region and was a device only made possible by the introduction of influence.

The more this discussion goes on, the less I like the idea of using the disbursement rating to determine eligibility. If an nation eligible for the Security Council would rather be involved in NPA deployments, then they should not seek the responsibility that comes with membership on the Security Council. If any current Security Council member wants to join and deploy with the NPA, then let them take a leave of absence from the Council (i.e., voluntary suspension of membership) until they get that urge out of their system.

Having 70 plus nation eligible for SC membership is excessive and would not work in practice. The intent of the body was to have the highest influence nations, collectively, involved in protecting the region when the Delegacy is at issue for whatever reason. I have not been shown any benefit to that aspect of these proposed changes in this discussion, and at this time, I cannot support them.

 

[mcmasterdonia]

I'm fine with the 8 days thing, its dropping the influence level that has my concern.

I mean, in a practical scenario. If a Delegate was to go rogue, would we really be concerned about the line of succession and such things? Surely, it would be whoever in the SC has the highest endorsements and influence who would replace him or her. I think this puts that at risk, while we might have 5 members of the SC with 200+ influence, if our other 600+ influence nations decide that's enough and resign WA to do other things. When issues arise, it's that much more difficult to get rid of a rogue. It would take a lot of time to get GBM or yourself, back up to a reasonable level to take back the Delegacy.

I think the 8 day rule should stay. Surely NPA members should be able to serve on the Security Council, and still do their duty as SC members. In many ways the two are highly related.

In regards to lowering the influence requirement, I think it would be better to include these nations through other means.

 

[Lennart]

A final question: would it be wise to include a requirement that some number of high influence SC members remain with WA status in TNP at any given time, to make sure that the deployment option is not overused? Perhaps three or four?

I like this idea