Freedom of Information request

Flemingovia

Flemingovia

TNPer
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Dear Court People,

In THIS THREAD on 9th July Blue Wolf made a Freedom of information request.

Eluvatar said that this was being processed - presumably by the court.

As an interested citizen can I ask how this is progressing?
 
This has not been brought to the Court at this time. It is the duty of the Executive to obtain this information. If that is not done then it may be filed with the Court in which Blue Wolf and myself would both have to recluse ourselves.

Section 6.3: Freedom of Information Act

15. The Delegate and appointed government officials will be delegated the task of informing the Assembly of any governmental action not already disclosed by the respective officers of the Executive.
16. All registered citizens residing in The North Pacific may request information from the Government through the Delegate and the designated officers of the Executive.
17. The Delegate and the designated officers of the Executive will endeavour to retrieve information requested from the different departments of the government, who are obligated to release this information provided it will not and/or does not present a threat to regional security or unduly impinge on the privacy of private citizens, and
18. Citizens which do not receive this information for any reason not specifically designated in appropriate laws or regulations may file a request for the information in a regional court, where the Delegate and the designated officers of the Executive may present evidence that addresses any claim that release of the information impairs Regional security.
19. Information not disclosed because of issues pertaining to Regional security will be classified by the majority vote of the Court sitting as a three-member panel.
20. Information whose disclosure is deemed a security threat to the Region will be released by the affirmative vote of a majority of a three-member panel of the Court, no sooner than 2 months after the original request, once the threat no longer exists.
21. All activities by the designated regional intelligence services are exempt from this law.
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My dearest friend, that would imply the Delegate and the Security Council did something wrong, and we both know this is impossible and can not be the case.
 
flemingovia:
Dear Court People,

In THIS THREAD on 9th July Blue Wolf made a Freedom of information request.

Eluvatar said that this was being processed - presumably by the court.

As an interested citizen can I ask how this is progressing?
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I think it's most disingenuous for a member of the group I was consulting to come and pretend I was approaching the Court instead.
 
I think it's most disingenuous for a member of the group I was consulting to come and pretend I was approaching the Court instead.
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I did not "pretend you were approaching the court instead". I knew you were asking selected people what should be done, but I thought that the decision was in the remit of the court.

Now I know better.

PS. Those who deny the existance of an Oligarchy would do well to read Eluvatar's post, and then think a little bit about it. I am not a member of the council of five, or the Security council. I hold no elected position in TNP at all. What "group" is Elu talking about?
 
flemingovia:
PS. Those who deny the existance of an Oligarchy would do well to read Eluvatar's post, and then think a little bit about it. I am not a member of the council of five, or the Security council. I hold no elected position in TNP at all. What "group" is Elu talking about?
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Perhaps it could be that you are an admin and have access to the forum in question therefore are in the group of people that were asked.
 
flemingovia:
I think it's most disingenuous for a member of the group I was consulting to come and pretend I was approaching the Court instead.
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I did not "pretend you were approaching the court instead". I knew you were asking selected people what should be done, but I thought that the decision was in the remit of the court.

Now I know better.

PS. Those who deny the existance of an Oligarchy would do well to read Eluvatar's post, and then think a little bit about it. I am not a member of the council of five, or the Security council. I hold no elected position in TNP at all. What "group" is Elu talking about?
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So would the special groups you formed in summer and fall 2007 have been Oligarchies?
 
Not sure which specific groups you mean but yes, they probably were. I think you are getting the idea.

I have been part of Oligarchies in TNP since around 2004. Maybe early 2005. I can point to a number of elections in TNP where the result was known beforehand, because a group of influential players had met beforehand to work out who was going to stand for what position and (more importantly) who we would not let win. There were one or two occasions when I stood at the last minute in an election, not becuase I especially wanted to stand, but because it was decided that I had the best chance of beating someone we definitely did NOT want to win.
 
Following the Delegate's refusal to release the requested information in this thread here citing the excuse that somehow the "government" doesn't own the Security Council information that is being requested I am forced to bring this matter to the Courts themselves.

I will again be excusing myself from this matter as a Justice since I have a very clear interest in the case.
 
Actually this is not required to go in front of a full 3 member Court so Falconkats can do what he wishes. Replacements that are non government RA members can be appointed or he can just make a decision on his own after asking for clarification from Elu.
 
I am against declassification of security counsil logs.
I suggest a time limit of minimum 1 year after which logs will be archived and will be available to forum members.
 
I also didn't think this was about security council logs, but about ones that have been given privately to Eluvatar, or those that are in the admin's only area. Pretty sure it is up to Falc, so many people have conflicts of interest in this matter.
 
Great Bights Mum:
flemingovia:
If falc is not available, i am happy to serve as temporary justice on this.
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Don't be a ding-dong; you already posted in the thread in question.
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I do not see how that precludes me from giving an objective legal judgement.

But here is a picture of a thee toed sloth.

tumblr_ln9hepiJcn1qeeqk5o1_500.jpg
 
flemingovia:
Not sure which specific groups you mean but yes, they probably were. I think you are getting the idea.

I have been part of Oligarchies in TNP since around 2004. Maybe early 2005. I can point to a number of elections in TNP where the result was known beforehand, because a group of influential players had met beforehand to work out who was going to stand for what position and (more importantly) who we would not let win. There were one or two occasions when I stood at the last minute in an election, not becuase I especially wanted to stand, but because it was decided that I had the best chance of beating someone we definitely did NOT want to win.
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I hope your first delegacy win (over me) in 2005 wasn't one of those occassions.

I was a nice guy then....

:)

...in catching up on many threads lots of bickering going on here and there isn't even an evil tyrant to rally against.
 
Blue Wolf II:
Pasargad:
I am against declassification of security counsil logs.
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You didn't seem to object when Eluvatar declassified the logs between Hileville and myself without permission. I find your stance to be hypocritical.
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those logs were never mentioned ,discussed or published in SC .
 
The very words spoken in the thread that the logs where released in suggest otherwise. Beyond that, I find it unbelievable that the SC would have such information and never speak of it amongst themselves.
 
These posted logs were not discussed in the Security Council, publicly or privately.

Until they were published by Eluvatar, I don't believe they were even discussed anywhere in government.

And the last time I checked, the Freedom of Information provisions do not apply to private discussions.
 
Last time I checked, a "declassification" didn't include posting new information that has never touched the forums. Seems Eluvatar has a lot to answer for.
 
Grosse did not say they had never touched the forums. He said they had never been discussed by the government or the security council.

Different things.
 
Since he offered, I am appointing Flemingovia to act as temporary Justice in my wake. As an Admin, he has more access to the forums than any of us, and thus the truth can not be so easily hidden from him. I trust he will act without bias, given his long history of loyalty to the region.
 
Only the Justice who does not have a CoI can appoint someone. Also this type of request does not require a full Court and Falcon can handle this by himself.
 
This is a matter of some public interest and, I think, the first time the Freedom of Information act has been tested through the courts.

Therefore I would be interested to know whether the court is setting forth any sort of timeframe in which a court ruling ought to be reached? there is some concern about FALCONCATS' activity level.
 
If my take on the FoI is correct, the delegate is obligated to provide this information per:

15. The Delegate and appointed government officials will be delegated the task of informing the Assembly of any governmental action not already disclosed by the respective officers of the Executive.
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The only reason the Delegate should not provide this information is if:

17. The Delegate and the designated officers of the Executive will endeavour to retrieve information requested from the different departments of the government, who are obligated to release this information provided it will not and/or does not present a threat to regional security or unduly impinge on the privacy of private citizens,
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Bold mine.

I haven't read every post in this thread, but it seems that the onus would be incumbent upon the Delegate and designated Executive officers to definitively state that keeping this information from being released is a matter of regional security.

If they take such a position the Act then allows for the following:

18. Citizens which do not receive this information for any reason not specifically designated in appropriate laws or regulations may file a request for the information in a regional court, where the Delegate and the designated officers of the Executive may present evidence that addresses any claim that release of the information impairs Regional security.
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Bold mine.

Per clause 19, this 'regional court' will be a three person panel of the members of the court.

So to me, how we proceed seems pretty clear. The Del needs to state the reason not to declassify the info requested, once done, if the requestor of information wishes a hearing, they are able to do so and evidence will be heard by the court who will then render a decision.

Seems pretty cut and dry to me. As a final note, due to the CoI's expressed by some of the justiices, I'd certainly be willing to serve as a temporary 'hearing officer'1. I have no conflict in this case and certainly no skin in the game.
1:
8. If there is a vacancy on the Court, or any Justice is unavailable or has a conflict of interest the remaining Justices will promptly appoint a hearing officer to participate as temporary Justices.
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I think this matter should be sorted out expeditiously, no?
 
It's been five days since the request was submitted and Justice FALCONKATS hasn't shown up to take on the case, in fact he hasn't been on the forums since Jul 16 2012.

I respectfully request that the Chief Justice approve the recommendation of a temporary replacement for myself or make his own appointment(s) so we can move forward.
 
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