Constitutional Amendment

[Haor Chall]

3) For purposes of this Constitution, "Cabinet-level position" is construed to refer to the UN Delegate for the Region, anythe UN Vice Delegate who has acted as UN Delegate for the Region for more than half of an elected term of office, the Prime Minister, any Cabinet Minister of the Regional Government, any deputy Cabinet Minister who has acted as a Minister for more than half of an elected term of office, or the Attorney General.

To clear up that little loophole.


EDIT: However, that would mean the VD would become subject to term limits as well.

Possible alternate amendment then:

3) Cabinet members shall not hold more than one Cabinet-level position or the UN Vice Delegate position at the same time.

 

[Emperor Matthuis]

The second suggestion seems better in my view.

 

[Grosseschnauzer]

I should have the original language of that section filed awaysomewhere, and I'll look and see if the simplier approach may be to revive part of it to cure the issue.

We've had several people try to do this since the term limitation section was rewritten; I was opposed to it at the time, but I was being told tht it wouldn't chaange anything other than the terms within a year. One of the consequences of that revision has been this issue.

It is also possible that we could just amend the Election Law, and simply prohibit candidacies for more than one of the "offices, including the Delegate, Vice Delegate and Speaker. As a statute, it would requr a smaller majority and be just as effecive as opposed to amending the Constitution.

 

[Grosseschnauzer]

After reviewing the provisions in the Constitution and the Legal Code related to this, I believe the easiest solution is to add a new Clause E to Section 2 of TNP Law 5:

Section 2. Declarations and Nominations of Candidacy

A - Any member Nation of the Region that is a registered voter and that is not ineligible to serve by any limitation of service provision or additional qualification for office in the Constitution, may declare its candidacy for Prime Minister or any elected Cabinet Minister.
B- Any member Nation of the Region that is a registered voter who has elected membership in the Regional Assembly and that is not ineligible to serve by any limitation of service provision or additional qualification for office in the Constitution, may declare its candidacy for Speaker of the Regional Assembly or for a seat on the Security Council.
C - Any member Nation with UN member status located within the Region that has registered to vote and that is not ineligible to serve by any limitation of service provision or additional qualification for office in the Constitution, may declare its candidacy for UN Delegate or UN Vice Delegate. Such Nation that has UN membership shall have resided in The North Pacific for at least three months, and shall have been active on the Regional off-site forum for at least one month at the time of nomination or declaration of candidacy for election to the office of Delegate or Vice Delegate.
D- Such declarations may be made during a seven day period starting 10 days prior to the designated voting period for the election cycle for the next term of office. Alternatively, any three Nations that are registered voters may nominate a Nation as a candidate for UN Delegate, UN Vice Delegate, Prime Minister, a specific elected Cabinet Minister, Speaker of the Regional Assembly or for a seat on the Security Council during a seven day period starting 10 days prior to the designated voting period for the election cycle for the next term of office. The Election Commissioners or their designees shall verify the eligibility of each Nation that declares or is nominated as a candidate, and shall publish the certified list of candidates for each office or position one day prior to the beginning of the voting period.
E. In no instance may a candidate declare, be nominated for, or be elected to more than one office during any given election cycle, whether such office is the Office of UN Delegate, the Office of UN Vice Delegate, the Office of Speaker, or any Cabinet-level position, as defined in the Constitution. This limitation does not apply to candidates for the Security Council.

I believe that should solve the issue.

Edit to clarify that the restriction would be for any given election cycle, and not more than that. We know how literal some people can be.

 

[Zemnaya Svoboda]

I think that's a good idea Grosseschnauzer.

 

[Haor Chall]

Yup, that makes sense.

 

[CaptainChaos]

Looks good to me.

 

[Haor Chall]

If Nam is right here then actually the first option (counts as a cabinet level position) may be the best bet to clear up this slightly grey area as well, mayhap.

 

[Zemnaya Svoboda]

Haor Chall is also right. Perhaps some sort of Omnibus?

 

[mr_sniffles]

Omnibus bills rarely have much luck (latest example the Ministry Merger Report) and usually end up being sent back and put back up in pieces.

Also I never liked this new Term Limits law, deputies should be absolved and two terms a year is more reasonable than two terms never again.

 

[Haor Chall]

It isn't two terms and then never again

It's two terms and then sit one out. You can't be in office for more than two consecutive terms. It isn't exactly difficult.

 

[Grosseschnauzer]

If the original term limits section had been left in place, we wouldn't even be having this discussion. The door got opened to this problem because of that proposal. Maybe it's an example of the law of unintended circumstaces, but I had a higher level of confidence in the original language working correctly (which it did, because this problem was not an issue.)

Removing its impact on deputy ministers would open the door to the following scenario.

Minister A has held a particular office for two full terms. He can;t run so he or she gets B to run. B gets elected, appoints A as deputy, and walks away from the office. Under the inactivity provision, A being the deuty would then become minister in that office again. Without applying the restriction to A to bat them from being a deputy minister for one term, this sort of scanario could go on indefinitely.

That's why the law requires a deputy to be eligible to be the minister when appointed.

 

[Haor Chall]

Thats fine, that procedure (not allowing ineligable people to become deputies) hasn't been followed before (even under the old version of the term limits). Although, to be honest, I don't really follow how you think the previous term limits ammendment has anything to do with this.

 

[Grosseschnauzer]

There was, and is, nothing preventing the elected Ministers other than the PM from having more than one deputy Minister. It's just that the constitutionally required deputy that has the restriction. In addition, if the problem did arise, the resolution is that the PM would simply have to nominate a new Minister (and treat the legally required deputy minister as being vacant.

 

[Haor Chall]

There was, and is, nothing preventing the elected Ministers other than the PM from having more than one deputy Minister. It's just that the constitutionally required deputy that has the restriction. In addition, if the problem did arise, the resolution is that the PM would simply have to nominate a new Minister (and treat the legally required deputy minister as being vacant.

What does that have to do with this?

 

[Grosseschnauzer]

I am bumping this thread because we still have to address the problems that arose in the last election, and get corrective legilation adopted before mid-April.

There was general agreement that the first issue, people attempting to run for more than one office in the same election (other thn the Security Council), can be fixed with the following proposal:


This adds a new Clause E to Section 2 of TNP Law 5:

Section 2. Declarations and Nominations of Candidacy

A - Any member Nation of the Region that is a registered voter and that is not ineligible to serve by any limitation of service provision or additional qualification for office in the Constitution, may declare its candidacy for Prime Minister or any elected Cabinet Minister.
B- Any member Nation of the Region that is a registered voter who has elected membership in the Regional Assembly and that is not ineligible to serve by any limitation of service provision or additional qualification for office in the Constitution, may declare its candidacy for Speaker of the Regional Assembly or for a seat on the Security Council.
C - Any member Nation with UN member status located within the Region that has registered to vote and that is not ineligible to serve by any limitation of service provision or additional qualification for office in the Constitution, may declare its candidacy for UN Delegate or UN Vice Delegate. Such Nation that has UN membership shall have resided in The North Pacific for at least three months, and shall have been active on the Regional off-site forum for at least one month at the time of nomination or declaration of candidacy for election to the office of Delegate or Vice Delegate.
D- Such declarations may be made during a seven day period starting 10 days prior to the designated voting period for the election cycle for the next term of office. Alternatively, any three Nations that are registered voters may nominate a Nation as a candidate for UN Delegate, UN Vice Delegate, Prime Minister, a specific elected Cabinet Minister, Speaker of the Regional Assembly or for a seat on the Security Council during a seven day period starting 10 days prior to the designated voting period for the election cycle for the next term of office. The Election Commissioners or their designees shall verify the eligibility of each Nation that declares or is nominated as a candidate, and shall publish the certified list of candidates for each office or position one day prior to the beginning of the voting period.
E. In no instance may a candidate declare, be nominated for, or be elected to more than one office during any given election cycle, whether such office is the Office of UN Delegate, the Office of UN Vice Delegate, the Office of Speaker, or any Cabinet-level position, as defined in the Constitution. This limitation does not apply to candidates for the Security Council.

The second issue is peculiar to the Vice Delegate, which is that since that is not a deputy Minister position, the requirement that a deputy Minister must meet the same requirements as a elected Minister does not strictly apply to the VD, as it was intended.

The solution there is that the Constitution permits additional requirements to be added for particular elected offices, such as the requirement for a NPA endorsement of candidates for the MoD. The Constitution permits additional requirements to be added through the Legal Code, so the best solution is to add language ro paragraph C of the above quoted Section of Law 5

C - Any member Nation with UN member status located within the Region that has registered to vote and that is not ineligible to serve by any limitation of service provision or additional qualification for office in the Constitution, may declare its candidacy for UN Delegate or UN Vice Delegate. Such Nation that has UN membership shall have resided in The North Pacific for at least three months, and shall have been active on the Regional off-site forum for at least one month at the time of nomination or declaration of candidacy for election to the office of Delegate or Vice Delegate. In addition, any candidate for UN Vice Delegate must meet the requirements for the Office of Delegate, including any term limitations that might apply to that candidate.

We also need to codify the practice where, in elections for the Security Council, there are candidates who are also a candidate for either the office of UN Delegate or for Speaker of the Regional Assembly, the votes cast for such candidates who are elected for Delegate or for Speaker are disregarded in determining which Security Council candidates have been elected. I propose that additional language be added to Section 3 of Law 5:

Section 3. Voting Procedures

A - No later than the day immediately preceding the beginning of a voting period in an election cycle, the Election Commissioners or their designee shall post a topic on the Regional off-site forum for voting in the election describing the procedure for casting votes. The Election Commissioners shall determine whether a separate thread will be used for UN Delegate and UN Vice Delegate election voting from all other voting in the election. Nations may also vote by private message to a designated user account at the off-site regional forum, and the Election Commissioners shall post each such vote received in the official tally of the election returns.
B - One week following the opening of the voting period, the Election Commissioners shall close the voting thread and tally the votes. Once the results are ascertained, the Election Commissioners shall post a certificate of results at the off-site regional forum and shall declare which candidates have been elected. It will include a statement concerning the voting period for any required runoff election where the results so require.
C - In elections for the Security Council, where there are candidates for the Security Council who are also a candidate in the same election for either the office of UN Delegate, or for the office of Speaker of the Regional Assembly, and who is elected either as Delegate or as Speaker, the Election Commissioners are directed to disregard any votes cast for such candidates in determining which candidates have been elected to Security Council.

Comments, suggestions, any additions?

 

[Haor Chall]

Looks ok to me.

I am just wondering, whether it might be better (and tidier) to clear up the VD thing by making it clear that the official "constitutional" deputy minister is effectively bound by term limits as well. Because technically, from what I understand, that is the case now- however it isn't particularly clear.

 

[Grosseschnauzer]

The effect of term limits on Deputy Ministers can be covered in the Cabinet law that was passed in the last term. I'll take a look at it.

edited to add: The only other issue is whether to restore the limitation that only those TNP member nations that have UN membership, and that would require a Constituional amendment. I'll look at that as well.

 

[Grosseschnauzer]

I am just wondering, whether it might be better (and tidier) to clear up the VD thing by making it clear that the official "constitutional" deputy minister is effectively bound by term limits as well. Because technically, from what I understand, that is the case now- however it isn't particularly clear.

What the law currently says is this:

H - Designees for Deputy Minister must adhere to the same requirements as for Ministers, in accordance with Article III of the Constitution.

The current provision does not apply to the Vice Delegate. We could either rewrite the current sentence, or add a sentence to this Clauze specifically referencing that term limitation requirements apply, and that deputy ministers must be able to take office as a Minister during the term if that becomes necessary. Another option, which would also allow us to address the application of term limitations to be eligible for Vice Delegate, would be to add a new clause to the term limitation provisions in Article III, Sectiion 3 of the Constitution

Section 3. Term Limitations.

1) No person, through one or more Nations, may hold any Cabinet-level position for more than two consecutive terms.
2) For purposes of this section, service by a person, through one or more Nations, in a Cabinet-level position for more than one half of a term to which some other person was originally elected or appointed, shall be treated as a complete term in that office.
3) For purposes of this Constitution, "Cabinet-level position" is construed to refer to the UN Delegate for the Region, any UN Vice Delegate who has acted as UN Delegate for the Region for more than half of an elected term of office, the Prime Minister, any Cabinet Minister of the Regional Government, any deputy Cabinet Minister who has acted as a Minister for more than half of an elected term of office, or the Attorney General.

To address the voting for UN delegate, we'd have to amend this part of Article III Section 1:

C - All Nations who have joined the Regional Assembly under the provisions of Article II, Section 2, of this Constitution and who reside in The North Pacific, or are active members of The North Pacific Army or The North Pacific Intelligence Agency, shall be entitled to submit a single vote for each election regardless of UN status. No person shall be permitted to cast more than one vote, through one or more Nations.

 

[Grosseschnauzer]

Sorry for the delay, but other things came up, and I haven't had a chance to complete a fill draft of all of the election-releated changes that are needed until now.

This proposal has four changes to the Legal Code and two changes in the Constitution. There is no reason why all of these have to go through as a single oackage, unless all of these proves to be non-controversial. If there is any desire to vote on any of these changes sepratelt from the others, I have no problem with that. However, it is my opinion that all six changes as a package meet all of the issues that arouse during this last election cycle, and it should be possible to still pThis is the complete, updated version of what I believe needs to be adopted in order to clear up the various issues that arose in the last election.

Bill Section 1. A new Clause E to Section 2 of TNP Law 5 is added as follows:

Section 2. Declarations and Nominations of Candidacy

A - Any member Nation of the Region that is a registered voter and that is not ineligible to serve by any limitation of service provision or additional qualification for office in the Constitution, may declare its candidacy for Prime Minister or any elected Cabinet Minister.
B- Any member Nation of the Region that is a registered voter who has elected membership in the Regional Assembly and that is not ineligible to serve by any limitation of service provision or additional qualification for office in the Constitution, may declare its candidacy for Speaker of the Regional Assembly or for a seat on the Security Council.
C - Any member Nation with UN member status located within the Region that has registered to vote and that is not ineligible to serve by any limitation of service provision or additional qualification for office in the Constitution, may declare its candidacy for UN Delegate or UN Vice Delegate. Such Nation that has UN membership shall have resided in The North Pacific for at least three months, and shall have been active on the Regional off-site forum for at least one month at the time of nomination or declaration of candidacy for election to the office of Delegate or Vice Delegate.
D- Such declarations may be made during a seven day period starting 10 days prior to the designated voting period for the election cycle for the next term of office. Alternatively, any three Nations that are registered voters may nominate a Nation as a candidate for UN Delegate, UN Vice Delegate, Prime Minister, a specific elected Cabinet Minister, Speaker of the Regional Assembly or for a seat on the Security Council during a seven day period starting 10 days prior to the designated voting period for the election cycle for the next term of office. The Election Commissioners or their designees shall verify the eligibility of each Nation that declares or is nominated as a candidate, and shall publish the certified list of candidates for each office or position one day prior to the beginning of the voting period.
E. In no instance may a candidate declare, be nominated for, or be elected to more than one office during any given election cycle, whether such office is the Office of UN Delegate, the Office of UN Vice Delegate, the Office of Speaker, or any Cabinet-level position, as defined in the Constitution. This limitation does not apply to candidates for the Security Council.

Bill Section 2. Section 2 of TNP Law 5, is amended to add a paragraph C as follows:

C - Any member Nation with UN member status located within the Region that has registered to vote and that is not ineligible to serve by any limitation of service provision or additional qualification for office in the Constitution, may declare its candidacy for UN Delegate or UN Vice Delegate. Such Nation that has UN membership shall have resided in The North Pacific for at least three months, and shall have been active on the Regional off-site forum for at least one month at the time of nomination or declaration of candidacy for election to the office of Delegate or Vice Delegate. In addition, any candidate for UN Vice Delegate must meet the requirements for the Office of Delegate, including any term limitations that might apply to that candidate.

Bill Section 3.
Section 3 of TNP Law 5 is amended to add a paragraph C, as follows:

Section 3. Voting Procedures

A - No later than the day immediately preceding the beginning of a voting period in an election cycle, the Election Commissioners or their designee shall post a topic on the Regional off-site forum for voting in the election describing the procedure for casting votes. The Election Commissioners shall determine whether a separate thread will be used for UN Delegate and UN Vice Delegate election voting from all other voting in the election. Nations may also vote by private message to a designated user account at the off-site regional forum, and the Election Commissioners shall post each such vote received in the official tally of the election returns.
B - One week following the opening of the voting period, the Election Commissioners shall close the voting thread and tally the votes. Once the results are ascertained, the Election Commissioners shall post a certificate of results at the off-site regional forum and shall declare which candidates have been elected. It will include a statement concerning the voting period for any required runoff election where the results so require.
C - In elections for the Security Council, where there are candidates for the Security Council who are also a candidate in the same election for either the office of UN Delegate, or for the office of Speaker of the Regional Assembly, and who is elected either as Delegate or as Speaker, the Election Commissioners are directed to disregard any votes cast for such candidates in determining which candidates have been elected to Security Council.

Bill Section 4.
Section 2, Clause H of TNP Law 16 is amended to read as follows:

H - Designees for Deputy Minister must adhere to the same requirements as for Ministers, including term limitations, in the event a Deputy Minister must serve as a Minister during the term of office in accordance with Article III of the Constitution.

Bill Section 5.

Article III, Sectiion 3 of the Constitution is amended to read as follows:

Section 3. Term Limitations.

1) No person, through one or more Nations, may hold any Cabinet-level position for more than two consecutive terms.
2) For purposes of this section, service by a person, through one or more Nations, in a Cabinet-level position for more than one half of a term to which some other person was originally elected or appointed, shall be treated as a complete term in that office.
3) For purposes of this Constitution, "Cabinet-level position" is construed to refer to the UN Delegate for the Region, any UN Vice Delegate who has acted as UN Delegate for the Region for more than half of an elected term of office, the Prime Minister, any Cabinet Minister of the Regional Government, any deputy Cabinet Minister who has acted as a Minister for more than half of an elected term of office, or the Attorney General.
4) The Vice Delegate must be eligible for election as Delegate in order to be elected as Vice Delegate.

Bill Section 6.

Article III Section 1, Clause C of the Constitution is amended to read as follows:

C - All Nations who have joined the Regional Assembly under the provisions of Article II, Section 2, of this Constitution and who reside in The North Pacific, or are active members of The North Pacific Army or The North Pacific Intelligence Agency, shall be entitled to submit a single vote for each general election regardless of UN status. Any such Nation who is both resident in The North Pacific or are active members of The North Pacific Army or The North Pacific Intelligence Agency, and is also a member of the United Nations may vote in elections for UN Delegate and Vice Delegate. No person shall be permitted to cast more than one vote, through one or more Nations.

ass the entire package prior to April 15th.