Statement on Imkihca

Former English Colony:
Malphe:
Ema Skye:
Ema Skye:
Can somebody remind me what the hell is going on here again? I'm quite confused about all of this...
Hello?
Come on Ema, piece it together. You've got a bad habit of asking about things instead of finding out yourself.
I need to say that's a pretty unfair statement. Unless you really want to explain it or point out where it is explained, don't discount someone's confusion. 'Cause just reading this thread does *not* answer the question of what is all this about and what is the backstory. It started well into whatever the story actually is.

I'll attempt an explanation in the slice of time I have available right now. I'll attempt not to interject opinion and keep it to facts, but obviously I'm partial here.

There is a NationStates World Fair, originally founded by Unibot and Todd McCloud, with myself as an early addition to the committee running the fair. This past year's fair was the sixth.

Three days after the invitation to participate in the 2017 NSWF was posted, Europeia's forum administration banned Europeia's president, Brunhilde, presenting a fairly detailed account of an investigation and its findings. Three further days later, Astarial (aka SillyString) posted a petition for more action by site staff to fight harassment (primarily sexual harassment). (The previous day, this forum's administrators also banned Brunhilde.)

There were heated discussions of the matter, primarily in the petition's topic on the onsite forum. Europeia's pitch to host the fair won broad support, and was to some extent focused on this matter.

During the fair, an incident occurred where a talk by Escade saw vociferous pushback by Cormac, primarily on the fair's Discord. I don't currently remember all the details, but I do recall acting forcefully to try to restore decorum.

Very soon after this, complaints were made to the committee regarding Imki's presence. I believe Lord Ravenclaw has claimed he was not one of them.

Lord Ravenclaw and Imkitopia had had a falling about a year before, and he had unilaterally banned her from the TNP discord he'd created.

In discussing these complaints behind closed doors, McMasterdonia and I made reference to an ongoing investigation by TNP Administrators into the matter.

As I'm about out of time and the statements in this topic should cover most of the rest, I'll leave it at that. I'll try to address further questions when I have more time.
 
For those that are still ignorant, as am I, of what is going on, a couple things I'd like to mention.

The apology McMasterdonia posted in this thread, and verified by Eluvatar in the following post, can be found here:
http://forum.thenorthpacific.org/single/?p=10143351&t=9104719.

Likewise the main NS forum, NSWF thread (12 pages thus far), can be found here:
https://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=427921

A like apology to that found in the first link above, and verification, can be found here, where it was also posted on the 18th:
https://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=427921&start=250

I've yet to read the entirety of this thread or that at the NS forum. Some suggestions that I posted earlier have already been carried out, prior to my suggesting them. Both McMasterdonia, Eluvatar, and Darcania have all been 'on point,' though to what degree I do not yet know.

I'll reserve further comment until I've gone through all of the above.
 
I have been following this discussion on NSGP and elsewhere and want to return here as well to reiterate some points.

First of all, if you're repeating the same "mob mentality, pitchforks" rhetoric that has been determined to be a bane of NS - please stop.

Then, having discussed this issue with many of the players involved on all sides - it is clear to me that TNP is working on a solution and in conversation with many involved we have begun to get a lot of clarity on this from origins to now. This was a very complicated case that when more comes to light shows some of the issues with online investigations in NS.

At this moment, the most imperative thing is to do what we wanted to at the NSWF before it was derailed by many forces. That is to have the admin of regions start working together to implement best practices in handling cases of OOC misconduct. If you want to add on to that or build upon that, to work for safer and better NS for all then please contact the admin team and work with them.

I'm also going to state that Eluvatar is one of the first people I met in NS when I was a noob, since then to five years later which is now he has been the utmost paragon of virtue and honor and I highly respect him. Anyone trying to besmirch his name will find that it is not easy to do so.
 
Escade:
I'm also going to state that Eluvatar is one of the first people I met in NS when I was a noob, since then to five years later which is now he has been the utmost paragon of virtue and honor and I highly respect him. Anyone trying to besmirch his name will find that it is not easy to do so.
Here here!

And that McM guy's alright too :P
 
Cormac:
r3n, one of the few admins Imkihca could easily contact, ignored DMs from her in regard to this matter.

One of TNP's admins -- I won't publicly say who -- accused Syberis of causing him personal issues when he was contacted, prompting Syberis to cease contacting TNP's admin team at all lest he be the next one falsely accused of harassment by TNP's admin team.

So yes, individual admins have been ignoring inquiries (sometimes in very creative ways!), and the admin team's public silence for three months has also effectively meant the entire team is ignoring the situation. It's absolutely ludicrous that this incident occurred four months ago and the best you folks can do is "we're still working on it." Get on with it. You've falsely accused someone of harassment -- it's kind of an urgent matter. Maybe not for you, but certainly for the person you falsely accused.
For reference, Cormac is referring to me here. However, there are several accusations and falsehoods in this post that I need to address, and as this was posted publicly, here I am.

Yes, I informed Syberis that I had a panic attack when he messaged me. This occurred when I received the ping, before I had read the message. Indeed, the message he had sent me was perfectly innocuous, and had I read it at any time other than after a panic attack then I would have responded very differently. It occurred shortly after midnight in my timezone, on the morning of January 21st, around two months after I first became involved in this incident as a TNP administrator. During this time the crusade for Imkihca was in full swing, and the stress of the situation protracted across so long was causing my mental health to deteriorate.

Now, let's get to the meat of the matter. For full reference, here is a screenshot of the conversation I had with Syberis on that morning: https://gyazo.com/577b0fa821891f4c3cef4b609744d38c

First, please note the following:
  • I did not accuse Syberis of causing me personal issues. I informed him that him sending me a message triggered a panic attack. While the phrasing may make little difference to you, I meant exactly what I said. I do not blame Syberis for the panic attack, and I apologize if my response did not make that clear.
  • I did not accuse Syberis of harassing me. Far from it; that short DM conversation was the sole conversation I had directly with him, ever (as far as I recall). One message, which in itself contains nothing that even comes close to crossing any lines, does not make a case of harassment.

Now, I will establish here that, yes, I did have a panic attack, but thank you for accusing me of lying about my real life disability to avoid responding to what wasn't even an inquiry. No, I do not have evidence of this, because I won't be revealing any further information about my real life for the sake of an online game. I'm sure you understand given the situation.

So, let's start with my message. The actions I took (messaging and blocking) following Syberis messaging me were, 100%, not cool. I have no intention of trying to cover up these actions or to make excuses. I should have, instead, informed him that I was not currently in a state to discuss the situation, and would reach out to him the following day after work. But I did not; I acted emotionally, and said many regrettable things which only made the situation worse for all involved, not just for Syberis and myself but also my fellow admins at the time since it only damaged the credibility of the invitation to privately discuss the matter for the entire team. In fact, I had planned to apologize to Syberis when I had calmed down.

Until I logged in to Discord and received a direct message from a friend that informed me that I had been declared ban-on-sight in Osiris's Discord server "for [my] own good."

Looking back at the event... yeah, sure, fair enough. It was clear I needed to back away for a bit to get myself together before continuing, and I did. Hell, had I re-joined the server to attempt to pick fights or expose myself to more stress only to be banned, I'm sure at this date I would look back and thank Syberis for that. At the time, however, I only saw this as using my real life disability against me for his own purposes (which I doubt is at all correct), and refused to contact him after that.

So here you go, Syberis. My own apology. I apologize for reacting the way I did, and everything I did was wrong. I know you don't frequent this forum so I'll be TGing you a screenshot of this post. (Or just the text since I'm getting long-winded.) I'm sorry that I had to make this apology in public, but as you can see I rather had to respond in this thread. I'm also sorry it took so long for you to receive it, but as you can see things are a little slow-paced here in TNP. :P

That said. It seems Cormac was made aware of this event. Now, based off of the fact that Cormac referred to the event as "personal issues", and the fact that I believe you (Syberis) have a generally level head, I'm going to assume that Cormac doesn't know the exact details of the incident, and that you only informed him that I blocked you after accusing you of causing me "personal issues". Considering the situation, if that's all you told him, that's fair, too, and I thank you for keeping my real life disability private. However, if you informed him of my real life disability after I informed you of it in private, or if you told him that I lied about my panic attack, or if you told him that I accused you of harassment, please take the following paragraph as being addressed to you as well.

What I did was wrong, yes, but bring my real life disability into this very public thread, even if anonymously, and then topping it all off with outright lies is far, far more wrong than what I did, and crosses the line so much that I can't believe anyone would even consider doing that. You'll be interested to hear, Cormac, that it triggered another panic attack, though I doubt you'll believe that, either. Either way, your post is what convinced me that any positives that I get out of this game — the lovely community, the chance to practice my coding, the many friends I've made, the chance to give back to the community by becoming an admin and developing tools for the players to use, the chance to practice leadership, the chance to practice communicating with others, and anything else I've missed — none of those outweigh the negative of this game triggering my mental conditions, and those conditions being used against me with outright lies thrown into the mix. You may have referred to me anonymously (which I do appreciate that effort, don't get me wrong), you have basically forced me to acknowledge that it was me due to all those public lies. I hope you're keeping score, because that's now two TNP administrators that have left the game.

I apologize to the other admins that I had to step out in the midst of all this. But I consider it the right decision. I hope that I'll be in a better state to return someday, but with the direction this all is going it may take a while. I hope you can hold out better than I have, especially since there's at least a few people agreeing with the direction we've taken to resolve this very serious lapse in judgment.

I also apologize again to Syberis for what I said, and I consider the whole event to be water under the bridge. It's amazing how zen about the whole situation one can be when one takes a step back, and such is what I should have done back then, as well. I hope at least that you'll feel confident in the team enough to send a TG or two their way now.

Anyway, that's it. See ya.
 
I did not say, nor intend to imply, that you were lying about having a panic attack. I simply conveyed what Syberis had told me, which is that you accused him of causing you to have a panic attack, and that he ceased trying to communicate with TNP's admin team because he was concerned any further communication with anyone on TNP's admin team would result in him being falsely accused of harassment. Not by you specifically, but in general for contacting multiple TNP admins when it seemed clear to him that TNP admins didn't actually at all want to be contacted about the matter. So, to be absolutely clear, I didn't say nor intend to imply either that you had lied about your panic attacks or that you had accused Syberis of harassment or would have accused him of harassment. Reading back over my post, I can somewhat see how you might think that's what I was saying particularly if you were upset, but it isn't what I said or meant.

My post did initially say "panic attack," rather than "personal issues." At SillyString's request, I edited it to say "personal issues," since you had identified yourself as the subject of the post even though I had deliberately declined to identify you.

I'm sorry that my post and the misunderstanding of what I was saying caused you to have a panic attack. I'm not going to apologize for pointing out what I was told happened between you and Syberis though, because a) I didn't identify you, you are the one who did that, and b) neither Syberis nor I are the ones who brought your mental health problems into it, you are the one who did that. I have mental health problems of my own but I don't bring it up when people on NationStates (or anywhere else in RL or elsewhere on the internet) trigger my mental health problems, even though that has happened. I don't bring it up because it would look like weaponizing my mental health problems to make other people feel bad or look bad for things they shouldn't feel bad or look bad about. If in the course of interaction with me someone triggers my mental health problems, that isn't their fault, so I don't bring it up because they shouldn't be made to feel it is their fault, nor should other people be made to believe it is their fault. Anyone with mental health problems should be cautious not to weaponize their problems against other people, intentionally or otherwise.
 
Cormac:
b) neither Syberis nor I are the ones who brought your mental health problems into it, you are the one who did that. I have mental health problems of my own but I don't bring it up when people on NationStates (or anywhere else in RL or elsewhere on the internet) trigger my mental health problems, even though that has happened. I don't bring it up because it would look like weaponizing my mental health problems to make other people feel bad or look bad for things they shouldn't feel bad or look bad about. If in the course of interaction with me someone triggers my mental health problems, that isn't their fault, so I don't bring it up because they shouldn't be made to feel it is their fault, nor should other people be made to believe it is their fault. Anyone with mental health problems should be cautious not to weaponize their problems against other people, intentionally or otherwise.
So you're using someone's disability as a weapon against them, and then trying to shame them when they bring it up in self-defence? Class act, as always.
 
Thank you for your reply, Cormac. Honestly. It cleared up a lot of misconceptions that I had, and I hope my post did the same for you.

Cormac:
I'm sorry that my post and the misunderstanding of what I was saying caused you to have a panic attack.
Apology accepted. Thank you for taking the time to see my side of the issue and recognizing it.

Cormac:
I'm not going to apologize for pointing out what I was told happened between you and Syberis though, because a) I didn't identify you, you are the one who did that
I did, but you did rather force my hand (or at least you did based on my initial reading of your post; from your explanation, I can see that wasn't your intention); see the second to last sentence of the paragraph addressed to you.

Cormac:
b) neither Syberis nor I are the ones who brought your mental health problems into it, you are the one who did that.
Correct. While I attempted to bring it up as an explanation for the reason I was blocking him, I should not have done so nor blocked him in the first place; see my post above.

Cormac:
I have mental health problems of my own but I don't bring it up when people on NationStates (or anywhere else in RL or elsewhere on the internet) trigger my mental health problems, even though that has happened. I don't bring it up because it would look like weaponizing my mental health problems to make other people feel bad or look bad for things they shouldn't feel bad or look bad about. If in the course of interaction with me someone triggers my mental health problems, that isn't their fault, so I don't bring it up because they shouldn't be made to feel it is their fault, nor should other people be made to believe it is their fault. Anyone with mental health problems should be cautious not to weaponize their problems against other people, intentionally or otherwise.
Also correct. I made a mistake in messaging Syberis during a time of emotional distress and that clouded my judgment on the matter. Rest assured that I do my best to follow that principle, and I regret that I abandoned it during that short time frame.

Prydania:
So you're using someone's disability as a weapon against them, and then trying to shame them when they bring it up in self-defence? Class act, as always.
Slow down a little there. Cormac and I may butt heads... often... but he does still (occasionally :P ) make good points, and the fact that he apologized before explaining his view shows (to me, at least) that he responded to me in good faith.
 
Thank you for that reply, Darcania. I wish you all the best and, again, I apologize for the distress my post and the misunderstanding caused.




In regard to the broader topic of this thread, it's become clear to me throughout the day today that Eluvatar and McMasterdonia aren't going to be held accountable by TNP, and that most if not everyone who were considering holding TNP accountable are now losing their resolve to do so. This shouldn't surprise me, but it does, because I thought on OOC issues, at least, people were better than this. I didn't think TNP's population and endorsement count would actually deter people from doing the right thing here, and I certainly didn't anticipate that getting Glen-Rhodes and Escade on your side, advocating for no one to face any consequences for their actions, would have such a dramatic impact. I hope they're both proud of themselves for helping two people who falsely accused someone of harassment escape any consequences, and I hope each and every one of you here in TNP are proud of yourselves for that as well.

Given that I'm 100% certain neither Eluvatar and McMasterdonia in particular nor TNP in general will be held accountable for any of this, there is no point in continuing to advocate for that. I'll be taking my leave now. I just want to say before going, though, that this community used to be better than this, and so did a lot of the people in it. As I've thought about all of this the past few days, it's been difficult for me to decide who I'm the most disappointed in. I did finally settle on someone, and I'm sure she knows who she is, but I'm just generally very disappointed in this community for being completely okay with what has transpired over these past few months, and imposing absolutely no consequences on the two people responsible for it. I'm sure some of you mean well, believe Eluvatar and McMasterdonia are genuine in their apology, etc., etc. But ask yourselves, if they're so genuine: Why are they still admins? Given that all anyone wants is for them to be removed from the admin team, they could simply remove themselves and put an end to this firestorm, but so far at least they're unwilling to do that. To me, that isn't indicative of two people who are genuinely sorry for anything. It's indicative of two people who are trying their best to evade consequences and keep their admin positions by feigning contrition. That's something you folks may want to think about. Unfortunately, based on your reactions these past few months, I doubt many of you will.

I would, in closing, wish TNP all the best, except that I can't wish this community all the best. This community is toxic to its core. People I once considered friends are now unrecognizable to me after the time they've spent in this toxic community. People who once demanded that admin teams needed to be fair, avoid executing petty grudges, and meet community needs are now okay with admins making false accusations of harassment. So I guess what I wish for this community is that eventually the most toxic elements in it will leave, and things might improve for the few of you who aren't part of the toxicity. Given that many of your most toxic people came here from Osiris, I will say I apologize that they ended up here. TNP didn't deserve to be afflicted with Osiris' discarded trash.
 
The rhetoric is so bombastic and also quite rude towards an entire community of players. You don't get to call people trash because they don't bow to your whims.

Instead of this tantrum, if you engaged in level-headed discourse then who knows what would be possible.

I have no interest in blood or pitchforks. I have two clear interests here:
1. Imki, a fellow player, and a TSPer has an injustice committed against her. Why did this happen? How? She is the one person in all of this who should get clear answers first and foremost.
2. If there is any whiff of foul play or other maliciously intended misconduct - who is responsible and how should it be addressed?

And the following as a player in this game who likes it for all its flaws:
3. How the hell do we balance protecting individuals and communities and doing it in a way that doesn't harm one or the other?

There are players who are bad in this game and need to be cut out from it because of heinous actions. Those are few though and largely the community has been very good at getting rid of them. We know who those are.

Then, there are players that have been in the game for a long time who have established a history in this game. Maybe a mixture of good and flawed (IC) or whatever it is but are human and decent people.

We might not like them or get along with them or even know them but we understand that they are not bad people at heart. Just like Cormac I don't think you are a bad person at heart even though you say things that are terribly cruel at times and I hope not a reflection of how you really feel but that momentary anger that many people feel from time to time. I myself am flawed and make mistakes sometimes but try not to or at least to learn from them. Based on what I have seen and heard, I do not think TNP is a community of bad people or malicious people. That doesn't excuse that some thing wrong happened but does mean that we should be as humane to each other as we would like others to be to us.

I have hope and faith that there will be justice here. Not mob justice, not an eye for an eye, but a civilized form of justice.
 
Darcania:
Now, let's get to the meat of the matter. For full reference, here is a screenshot of the conversation I had with Syberis on that morning: https://gyazo.com/577b0fa821891f4c3cef4b609744d38c
I just want to circle back to something that y'all seem to have missed. In the screenshot Syb states that I have been 'casually doxxed' by Raven in voice chats.
Is this something that's been 'investigated' at all? The screenshots shows that this is something TNP's administration knew about for quite a while.
 
Having VC'd with Raven almost every day for probably the last two years or so, I'd very much like to know when Raven supposedly doxxed Imki. I can't seem to recall a time when that happened, but obviously I am 1. biased and 2. not around all the time Raven would've been VCing.
 
St George:
Having VC'd with Raven almost every day for probably the last two years or so, I'd very much like to know when Raven supposedly doxxed Imki. I can't seem to recall a time when that happened, but obviously I am 1. biased and 2. not around all the time Raven would've been VCing.
While I can't recall a specific instance I witnessed where Raven mentioned Imki in VC in any such way (though I've heard it said from others), it's a well-known pattern of behaviour that Raven will, once aware of a player's RL first name, use that name in various voice chats, no matter if that player wants their RL first name used or not.
 
Roavin:
St George:
Having VC'd with Raven almost every day for probably the last two years or so, I'd very much like to know when Raven supposedly doxxed Imki. I can't seem to recall a time when that happened, but obviously I am 1. biased and 2. not around all the time Raven would've been VCing.
While I can't recall a specific instance I witnessed where Raven mentioned Imki in VC in any such way (though I've heard it said from others), it's a well-known pattern of behaviour that Raven will, once aware of a player's RL first name, use that name in various voice chats, no matter if that player wants their RL first name used or not.
I can't recall a time where I've heard Raven do this, but then again I don't think it's something I'd pick up on and so I'll defer to what's a 'well-known pattern of behaviour'. Without making further comment on the specific allegation, doxxing in this way seems to be a thing for a number of people who probably don't know any better - or don't think about the full effect that mentioning someone by RL first name might have.

It's an odd one, a lot of us put so much personal information out there in a variety of ways (email addresses, social media accounts, etc etc) I think the lines between the player and the person can become blurred for a lot of people. I've certainly found it difficult not to refer to Raven by their own RL first name throughout this topic and the discussions around it, because that's like.. the name I call them when we're having conversations.
 
I principally agree. The reason I brought it up wasn't because of a few inadvertent slip-ups but precisely because it's ostensibly deliberate!
 
Raven was using my first name in public even when we were still friends and I was asking him not to repeatedly. My name alone is not the issue though. The fact I know he's spilling details of my personal life to people I've never even spoken to before is. I know of one person definitely who has more information about me than I have *ever* given publicly or even privately to anyone other than Raven before. TNP have seen my evidence of this and know who to speak to to get more information. Nice to see one of your moderators trying to justify this though.
 
As I've been reading about and hearing about this, from various sources, one conversation made me realize what it reminded me of... now, I can't put my finger on the exact similarities, it is more of a feeling... but, I'm not the only one who thought of Twoslit, right?
 
Cormac:
... I certainly didn't anticipate that getting Glen-Rhodes and Escade on your side, advocating for no one to face any consequences for their actions, would have such a dramatic impact. I hope they're both proud of themselves for helping two people who falsely accused someone of harassment escape any consequences, and I hope each and every one of you here in TNP are proud of yourselves for that as well.
I hesitate to even post here, because these aren't my forums and this isn't my region. But instead of carrying on this discussion in the public NS forums, you've decided to impugn my character on a forum I don't even use. Your behavior throughout this whole thing has been toxic. You have consistently broken moderation rules, or gone right up to the line, in every venue you've spoken at in this saga. Is it really that difficult to have an adult conversation? I don't get it.

Your accusations that Eluvatar and McMasterdonia knowingly leveled false harassment accusations against Imki are flat out wrong. It is a lie. It's not a matter of reasonable people reaching different interpretation. It's a simple, vicious lie; a toxic rhetorical device you're using as a wedge to keep whatever fight you want going. Eluvatar, McMasterdonia, and every other administrator involved in this properly took a complaint of harassment seriously and investigated it. They shared information with NSWF administrators early on, who had also received their own independent complaints. The only people who made any kind of accusation are the people or person who filed the original complaints. You are twisting logic into propaganda, making a mockery of a serious issue. The amount of damage you have done to how offsite administrators handle complaints in the future isn't knowable, but I can't help but think it'll certainly be measurable. Stop, seriously. Those who continue to let you speak for them need to take a long hard look at your behavior and the ridiculous and vicious words you've been saying over the past few days.

Do not continue to lie about me or Escade. We took hours out of our Monday night to listen like adults and help get to the core of the issues. I quite literally had no pretenses going into that discussion. Prior to it, I was being patted on the back by Syberis, quoted approvingly by Badger, and apparently conscripted by you into an anti-TNP crusade (evidenced by how you said I 'flip-flopped' on Discord last night). I did my due diligence, learned everything I could from some of the administrators involved (both TNP and NSWF), and came out of the 2+ hour discussion realizing this isn't a black and white issue with easy solutions. That's how things tend to work in life, Cormac. And what administrators are dealing with here is real life harassment issues, not political gaming and crusading. Things are not as simple as you want to portray them.
 
I don't know that I'd call this community toxic. Even if one thinks it is, that's not really the issue here.

From what I can tell, some mistakes by a few TNP admins has caused a drama of epic proportions (a little excessive in my opinion). That said, I do think some missteps were taken.

Making the investigation of a harassment complaint public before the evidence could be gathered and evaluated was ill-advised at best. There seems to be some suggestion that bad feelings between Imki and another TNP admin may have precipitated this mess. Could be, that happens a lot in NS. I suppose that could speak to intent, but that admin has resigned, and that's enough I guess.

Unfortunately, the remaining issue with Elu and McM's involvement in this is still a sore spot for many. Both of them have apologized, and I believe they are sincere. Seeing as the citizens have no real recourse to address admin decisions, we'll have to assume the team will act in good faith when dealing with one of their own. I'm sure that not everyone will accept whatever happens. :shrug: The worst part of this is that the reputations of all involved parties will be adversely affected in some way. Let's also keep in mind that Imki is the aggrieved party with the most to lose (reputation-wise) in this matter.
 
Honestly, I think that we all need to calm down. From what I see here, you're all yelling at each other like toddlers arguing over candy. McM and Eluvatar have sincerely apologized for what had occurred in a previous post in the thread. I honestly think we should leave it at that. Hopefully, this whole situation will soon clear away and the angry toddlers will clear away too. We have had enough of these people coming in to bash our hard-working administration. Remember, they don't get paid for all of the hard work they do for the community.

- Ema Skye, humble resident
 
It's easy to say calm down when you're not the one who's been dragged through this crap for over a year. I've been led around by the nose, never given any straight information, evaded and ignored in all that time. The reason people are so angry now is because this has been left to fester under the surface for so long.

I personally do not find the apology sincere, at least not the ones aimed at me. I think if there is sorriness for anything it's that this wasn't allowed to be brushed under the rug. If there was genuine remorse for how I've been treated why has it taken everyone getting up in arms to get this far after so long? Why have the majority of apologies been in public? Rhetorical questions, I know the answer: it's because they aren't sorry to me, they're sorry there is so much fuss about their cock up.

Glen might be satisfied with his talk with the admins but I wasn't. I spent a weekend in a group chat with Elu and Mcm, waited hours for evasive non-responses from either and eventually left the chat frustrated as hell and none the wiser.
 
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